I'm sorry but the problem is Eli

Does not suit Eli's game . Never been good with short touch passes or screens . Always like any QB plays better when the middle of the pocket is not pushed back .
He is a great drop back passer that knows the game and needs a decent running game to use play action .
It's one thing when you have one weak link on the offensive line and you have a gauge to know when to get rid of the ball
not 3 weak links and sometimes four . He is an excellent deep ball passer . He still has enough on his fast ball to throw
the deep out's . I do see some of the zip lost but not like
with Peyton near the end when everything was floated .
Rarely times when he can actually go through all his reads
Without sensing the pressure and minimizing turnovers .

now in this stage of his career. He's on his downside of career as hints of it was evident last season in his loss of arm and movement. He needs to be a game manager now and cannot compensate with a porous ol. He's not mobile enough.

as we see now he's shell shocked from having to constantly look for and get away from defenders on basically all his drop backs. I believe that hit he took in first washington game last season was the start of this. He's in desperate need of support of a running game to which they do not have.

With the way this ol is built now, and not very good, the offense to have any kind of success is to have a mobile qb..which Eli is not and never was.

In comment 13597522 ZGiants98 said:

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Eli has lost nothing on his fastball. He still has zip on his throws... his one deep pass he actually OVERTHREW a receiver. He was eluding a ton of pressure in the pocket. If anything he's more intelligent now (football wise) than he's ever been. People think we had a shit line in 2011 but that line actually came together down the stretch. Eli has never had a line this bad. I think if you're one of those people that automatically assumed the two worst offensive tackles in football were going to improve this year, or you're one of those people that thinks a blocking TE and a blocking receiver( Marshall) were going to fix the line... you're now going to shift blame to Eli because you are "shocked". Nope. It's still the line folks. The number two issue is the system. We are basically running a vanilla' down version of the west coast. It's 2017. Teams know how to plan for that by now.

This. People keep bringing up the 2012 line and forget that line was pretty good at pass protection, they failed at run blocking and even with that, they were better at it then this line. Go back and look at some of the games from that year.

RE: .
Britt in VA : 3:11 pm : link : reply
In comment 13597578 Go Terps said:
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Without putting a competent line in front of him it is impossible to say for sure how much of a problem he is. If you're saying he can't be an effective quarterback behind a line this bad, I'd agree that's a problem.

I believe the majority of the problem is the consistently poor offensive line performance. Opposing defenses do not have to respect:

- our running game
- our play action threat
- our deep passing threat

I believe that Eli and McAdoo are operating this offense with one hand tied behind their backs. If our quarterback has two seconds to throw the ball off his back foot into a secondary that is flooded with 7 defenders, something is very wrong.

It was so obvious last year to roll this same line out may be a disaster for a season in which we should make a deep run . It pisses me off to no end .

In comment 13597527 Section331 said:

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that he still ended up with 4,000 yards and 26 TD's, despite the personnel shortcomings he had to deal with.

and three of his starters from last year are not even on rosters right now.

In comment 13597562 beatrixkiddo said:

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I get the sense that the front office has already started implementing the coach and personnel they want here to succeed in the future (Looking beyond Eli). Looking around the league, so many teams never planned or took the steps to plan for life after their franchise QB's left and have had a hard time finding an identity since, I feel the Giants may have done Eli a disservice by not fully investing / committing to building the team around his strengths over the past couple years, and instead have spent resources on putting in place a system that will be easier to transition to for life beyond eli.

You might be right. The best coaches scheme for what they have and not for what they wish they had. It's easy to say, all we need is a QB like Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, sure, he's one of the best to ever play. I think a good coach would still be able to get some wins out of Eli. Anyway....

He is not performing like the player who made the Tyree play or the one who showed unflappable poise in the face of oppressive pass rush in the championship game with the '49ers.

Whenever the HC is questioned about the play of the Oline, he immediately responds by noting it is not all on the line. Some of that is undoubtedly directed at the QB.

When an offense is performing as bad as this one is, there is more than enough blame to go around. We are dealing with a perfect storm of issues -uncreative/predictable play calling, a grossly under talented Oline, an immobile QB playing without confidence and without the benefit of a running game.

The hard truth is, when you pay your QB $20M a year, there is going to be tradeoffs. You would gladly take those tradeoffs if he is performing like Eli did in the SB runs because he would elevate the play of those around him. He is no longer doing that, at least not at the moment. At this time, he is not compensating for other deficiencies, he is compounding them. That is the harsh truth.

He's never been a mobile guy, but he's always had pocket presence. He seems to have lost that. Instead of going through his progressions as he's moving in the pocket, he's staring at the rush so he can't see what is going on down the field. He's gotten jittery again. I understand it, but it's still a problem. A QB that can move better would do much better with this line.

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The hard truth is, when you pay your QB $20M a year, there is going to be tradeoffs.

Are you saying we have lesser personel because Eli gets paid 20 million? I beg to differ.

We have two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder invested in the line in the past four years.

We have Beckham Jr.

We have a 200 million dollar defense.

What tradeoffs did we have to make?

In comment 13597598 Keith said:

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He's never been a mobile guy, but he's always had pocket presence. He seems to have lost that. Instead of going through his progressions as he's moving in the pocket, he's staring at the rush so he can't see what is going on down the field. He's gotten jittery again. I understand it, but it's still a problem. A QB that can move better would do much better with this line.

Pocket presence requires an actual pocket to maneuver in. The middle of our line is getting their sh-t stuffed in on most pass plays, and driven right back into Eli.

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The hard truth is, when you pay your QB $20M a year, there is going to be tradeoffs.

I would (and have) point more to the enormous money spent on the defense in 2016. The front office made the choice to go in that direction, IMO to the detriment of the offense and specifically the offensive line. THAT was the opportunity we had to make a sweeping change in that area.

To be completely fair, the defense has been very good since that decision was made. But is it good enough to overcome how bad the OL has become?

In comment 13597522 ZGiants98 said:

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Eli has lost nothing on his fastball. He still has zip on his throws... his one deep pass he actually OVERTHREW a receiver. He was eluding a ton of pressure in the pocket. If anything he's more intelligent now (football wise) than he's ever been. People think we had a shit line in 2011 but that line actually came together down the stretch. Eli has never had a line this bad. I think if you're one of those people that automatically assumed the two worst offensive tackles in football were going to improve this year, or you're one of those people that thinks a blocking TE and a blocking receiver( Marshall) were going to fix the line... you're now going to shift blame to Eli because you are "shocked". Nope. It's still the line folks. The number two issue is the system. We are basically running a vanilla' down version of the west coast. It's 2017. Teams know how to plan for that by now.

Yep.

And the folks calling this OL mediocre need to watch some other teams. This line is easily one of the worst if not the worst in the NFL.

At the time McAdoo became OC we had an OL problem. I remember that even though most BBI agreed Eli was not a great fit it could solve our pass protection problems because ball needs to come out quicker. Well I guess the experiment did not work as well as Reese thought. While he was busy drafting WR and defense and no OL and RB Eli has struggled in this system. So now it is 2017 and we have a top defense and a broken offense.

In comment 13597605 Go Terps said:

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Quote: The hard truth is, when you pay your QB $20M a year, there is going to be tradeoffs. I would (and have) point more to the enormous money spent on the defense in 2016. The front office made the choice to go in that direction, IMO to the detriment of the offense and specifically the offensive line. THAT was the opportunity we had to make a sweeping change in that area. To be completely fair, the defense has been very good since that decision was made. But is it good enough to overcome how bad the OL has become?

The Giants were probably counting on Flowers-Richburg-Pugh all becoming at least above-average linemen and gambling on the right side of the line. At the time, it looked like Pugh and Richburg would certainly be quality players.

That impacts every decision that is made when it comes to FA. The priority was justly the defense. But were there any FAs signed in the past two years who could have helped on the Oline? Most likely.

In comment 13597605 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Quote: The hard truth is, when you pay your QB $20M a year, there is going to be tradeoffs. I would (and have) point more to the enormous money spent on the defense in 2016. The front office made the choice to go in that direction, IMO to the detriment of the offense and specifically the offensive line. THAT was the opportunity we had to make a sweeping change in that area. To be completely fair, the defense has been very good since that decision was made. But is it good enough to overcome how bad the OL has become?

Reese could've solidified the OL via the draft the last two years instead of burning picks on luxury players. Instead we were sold a bill of goods on how we've already invested too much in the OL via the draft and/or the prospects weren't that good.

I think we'd feel better about the OL right now w Tunsil or Conklin plus Robinson -- and I'd gladly take that over Apple/Engram at this point.

In comment 13597536 jlukes said:

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In comment 13597531 djstat said: Quote: Who has performed at a winning level with such a mediocre line? He is jittery because he had no time to throw Rothlisberger Rodgers Brady Peyton

I don't Agree with list. The first problem is comparing Eli with this current line to roethlisberger, or Rodgers isn't comparable, those guys have mobility Eli never had. Brady and Peyton is the apt comparison, even then though it's not as simple to just look at numbers, what were their running games like? What was their offensive philosophy, how much and for how long had they been beaten up?

Eli is dealing with being knocked around too much for too long, and I believe it's taken a toll mentally. But he is also dealing with an offense that has no threat outside of Beckham, add this current OL, and the.possibility of questionable play calling and you get the result we got Sunday night.

Multiple things have combined to form this, but to me, it ALL starts up front.

Another poster (DonQuixote) posted this GIF in another thread. It's of the 3rd and 2 incompletion over the middle to Marshall. The initial response seemed to be that Eli simply was inaccurate, but I'd encourage every BBIer to watch this play again. I've watched it about 20 times.

Take note of the time on the clock, where Eli receives the snap, and the position of the OL and DL when he lets the ball go.

Basically, he has 2 seconds to throw the ball. He has to move to his left; he has no area into which to step up and deliver a confident throw. All 9 linemen are at least 4 yards into the Giants' side of the LOS. Dallas is only rushing 4, so 7 defenders are sitting in coverage.

It is under these conditions that Eli has to try to deliver an accurate ball into a tight window.

The conditions you see in this play have been, to my eye, repeated over and over again in Giants games since we went to what has more or less comprised this group of linemen.

Watch the clip. It's unacceptable.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13597618 UberAlias said:

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That impacts every decision that is made when it comes to FA. The priority was justly the defense. But were there any FAs signed in the past two years who could have helped on the Oline? Most likely.

If you're going to say that Eli's salary prevented us from signing an O-lineman to help out, please name an example. We're currently about 5 million under the cap.

In comment 13597598 Keith said:

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He's never been a mobile guy, but he's always had pocket presence. He seems to have lost that. Instead of going through his progressions as he's moving in the pocket, he's staring at the rush so he can't see what is going on down the field. He's gotten jittery again. I understand it, but it's still a problem. A QB that can move better would do much better with this line.

He still has pocket presence, there is just very little pocket to step into.

one of them and has been. OLine is a problem, too. But Eli just doesn't do well in this WCO of McAdoo's.
With a Cowboys line he'd probably be fine, anything much less, he'll have problems.

At this point, I'm not sure Eli can get his mind right after several years of malfeasance playing in front of him.

In comment 13597531 djstat said:

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Who has performed at a winning level with such a mediocre line? He is jittery because he had no time to throw

Brady 2015.. His OL sucked.. sucked really bad.. they recognized it and their GM fixed it within a year.. JR is on his 5th year and we are worse this year than when Dhiel and Snee played their last season.. I don't blame Eli.. Its OLs fault but its gotten to the point that even when OL holds up, Eli will screw it up.. 5+ years of taking a beating does that to you..

We can agree to disagree. Neither you nor I know what the $5M is allocated for by the team. But in a salary cap league any responsible team takes cost into account in decision making. That is a fact.

In comment 13597623 Go Terps said:

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Another poster (DonQuixote) posted this GIF in another thread. It's of the 3rd and 2 incompletion over the middle to Marshall. The initial response seemed to be that Eli simply was inaccurate, but I'd encourage every BBIer to watch this play again. I've watched it about 20 times. Take note of the time on the clock, where Eli receives the snap, and the position of the OL and DL when he lets the ball go. Basically, he has 2 seconds to throw the ball. He has to move to his left; he has no area into which to step up and deliver a confident throw. All 9 linemen are at least 4 yards into the Giants' side of the LOS. Dallas is only rushing 4, so 7 defenders are sitting in coverage. It is under these conditions that Eli has to try to deliver an accurate ball into a tight window. The conditions you see in this play have been, to my eye, repeated over and over again in Giants games since we went to what has more or less comprised this group of linemen. Watch the clip. It's unacceptable. Link - ( New Window )

It's a 3rd and 2 and he threw into coverage. He had two better options to pick up the first down for shorter yardage. This is the type of down Vereen excelled at.

In comment 13597637 UberAlias said:

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We can agree to disagree. Neither you nor I know what the $5M is allocated for by the team. But in a salary cap league any responsible team takes cost into account in decision making. That is a fact.

The problem isn't in not having the resources to invest. As I said, in the past 4 years, we have put two 1st rounders and a premium high pick second rounder on our line, AND paid FA's (Schwartz). They just didn't pan out. That's a coaching and/or evaluation problem, not a resources problem.

Wake me when he stops being able to make throws down the field. This isn't Peyton at the end where he couldn't throw anything over 10 yards. So if it's not physical, what would age have to do with anything? His mind? 36 and is mind is slower? Gtfo.

It's the same Eli.

In comment 13597623 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Another poster (DonQuixote) posted this GIF in another thread. It's of the 3rd and 2 incompletion over the middle to Marshall. The initial response seemed to be that Eli simply was inaccurate, but I'd encourage every BBIer to watch this play again. I've watched it about 20 times. Take note of the time on the clock, where Eli receives the snap, and the position of the OL and DL when he lets the ball go. Basically, he has 2 seconds to throw the ball. He has to move to his left; he has no area into which to step up and deliver a confident throw. All 9 linemen are at least 4 yards into the Giants' side of the LOS. Dallas is only rushing 4, so 7 defenders are sitting in coverage. It is under these conditions that Eli has to try to deliver an accurate ball into a tight window. The conditions you see in this play have been, to my eye, repeated over and over again in Giants games since we went to what has more or less comprised this group of linemen. Watch the clip. It's unacceptable. Link - ( New Window )

Sadly...Vereen easily gets the first down there...and more

Eli might have been more the problem, but when i sat down and thought about it, i realized that when ever im rushing as fast as possible to get something done i make more mistakes.Also seems the older i get that makes it harder. Eli isnt as young as he was, and he getting that ball out faster then he ever has before, so yeah there more mistakes. but what choice does he have when he getting hit on either side as soon as he steps back. Im sorry but in my own opinion a lot of this goes on Jerry Reese and McAdoo's shoulders. That line should have been stacked by now with a wall of players that if they werent pro bowlers they be pretty damn close to it. Seem instead each draft has a wtf pick, one that doesnt pan out, or is the JPP of something or other. The refusal to go after a legit tackle or guard in free agency and instead go with players that would barely make aback up on another team baffles me. You look at Dallas's offensive line over the past few years and wonder how Eli would thrive behind that. Or what if Romo had been behind our line? he would have retired years ago and broken alot more bones ,I think.
Im not saying Eli isnt with out fault, but the guy barely played in preseason has a crappy oline thats giving free passes to the Qb, and its only the first game of the year.
So if im putting blame on anyone, im blaming EVERYONE. you need to protect what you have, and these guys need to gel more. if by game 4 we lose them all and nothing has changed then ill start saying its just Eli.

In comment 13597651 GIANTS128 said:

Quote:

In comment 13597623 Go Terps said: Quote: Another poster (DonQuixote) posted this GIF in another thread. It's of the 3rd and 2 incompletion over the middle to Marshall. The initial response seemed to be that Eli simply was inaccurate, but I'd encourage every BBIer to watch this play again. I've watched it about 20 times. Take note of the time on the clock, where Eli receives the snap, and the position of the OL and DL when he lets the ball go. Basically, he has 2 seconds to throw the ball. He has to move to his left; he has no area into which to step up and deliver a confident throw. All 9 linemen are at least 4 yards into the Giants' side of the LOS. Dallas is only rushing 4, so 7 defenders are sitting in coverage. It is under these conditions that Eli has to try to deliver an accurate ball into a tight window. The conditions you see in this play have been, to my eye, repeated over and over again in Giants games since we went to what has more or less comprised this group of linemen. Watch the clip. It's unacceptable. Link - ( New Window ) Sadly...Vereen easily gets the first down there...and more

To be fair, Eli needed to make a quick decision and throw but he threw into coverage without peeking at his safety valve, Vereen.

In comment 13597536 jlukes said:

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In comment 13597531 djstat said: Quote: Who has performed at a winning level with such a mediocre line? He is jittery because he had no time to throw Rothlisberger Rodgers Brady Peyton

You are delusional if you think any of these guys at any point in their careers have ever had an OL as bad as this...

Not even close with the ineptitude in both run and pass blocking...

or anyone to his right, when the entire offensive line is caving in and forcing him to his left? And if he did see him what's he supposed to do...throw it through the 6 linemen where Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg have allowed the pocket to completely collapse?

In comment 13597662 Go Terps said:

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or anyone to his right, when the entire offensive line is caving in and forcing him to his left? And if he did see him what's he supposed to do...throw it through the 6 linemen where Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg have allowed the pocket to completely collapse?

Vereen went thru a hole on the play action...he easily would have had the first down...

things called "progressions". Two seconds did not allow him to get past his first look.

doesn't mean there is never a pocket. I understand that this line is bad, I get that and I'm not dismissing that. However, there are plays where they do their part and Eli is staring at the rush. He's rattled, he's jittery, he doesn't look downfield anymore because he's expecting a rush on every play.

as a play that's defending Eli??? How could he know Vereen is open? How about reading the defense and seeing the LB's drop back into the zone. Even still, he had Marshall and he made a poor throw. Start executing on some of those plays and things will open up. I'm sorry, but that play is on Eli.

offensive lines I've ever seen. It can't run block, it can't pass protect. And it's often only going against 4 or 5 rushers. And the worst part of it all is that there aren't any stalwarts on the team that Eli can just "set it and forget it" knowing the protection will be there.

The right side is absolutely embarrassment. His blindside tackle has awful technique and gets destroyed off the edge by speed rushers. The two guys who are supposed to be solid-- Pugh and Richburg-- get dominated big big powerful bull-rushers.

Of course Eli is jittery back there-- he is going to get killed on every drop back that takes more than 2-2.5 seconds, but he has no idea which of his shitty linemen will be the slickest turnstile.

How many times in that opening game between Brady and Smith did you stop and think "man, these guys are sitting back there for an eternity."

When we played the Packers, how many times did Aaron Rodgers have more than SIX seconds to throw? I remember it happening on multiple drives.

From a guy that is pretty good at breaking down film and is pretty fair in his assessments.

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@DanSchneierNFL 5m5 minutes ago More I rewatched the #giants vs. #Cowboys and what amazed me most was the difference b/w Dak and Eli's pocket. A good OL is all (after QB obv)

It's clear as day people. Eli is having trouble and is not playing well. If you do not think that its a direct correlation to a bad OL, I dont know what to tell you.

...you should have stopped there as an apology for creating your account and wasting all of our time reading this drivvle.

How are you helping the OL or the QB. When you’re such a predictable play caller. I would love to call plays against a team, I knew would never run 2 times in a row. Even after they have a good gain

Plays on the field. I think he would be the first to admit he had a bad game.

In comment 13597580 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 13597578 Go Terps said: Quote: Without putting a competent line in front of him it is impossible to say for sure how much of a problem he is. If you're saying he can't be an effective quarterback behind a line this bad, I'd agree that's a problem. I believe the majority of the problem is the consistently poor offensive line performance. Opposing defenses do not have to respect: - our running game - our play action threat - our deep passing threat I believe that Eli and McAdoo are operating this offense with one hand tied behind their backs. If our quarterback has two seconds to throw the ball off his back foot into a secondary that is flooded with 7 defenders, something is very wrong. Perfect response.

Great answer.

Either become a capable running team, or get the OL in order.

Both help a QB immensely.

The Giants after one game appear to have neither.

Rodgers has time because he sees the rush coming and moves to an open spot and immediately looks down field. Rodgers doesn't just stand in one spot and wait for someone to get open, he's consistently moving around to find space and time. Terrible comparison.

Your overall point is right. A good QB will have success with a good OL and a bad OL will make it really hard to have good QB play. That being said, Eli is not free of blame. When he has time, he's not getting it done. He's terrible at moving around and creating time. He's not reading the defenses and he's missing easy passes.

I love Eli, but I can't absolve him of fault.

In comment 13597682 Keith said:

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as a play that's defending Eli??? How could he know Vereen is open? How about reading the defense and seeing the LB's drop back into the zone. Even still, he had Marshall and he made a poor throw. Start executing on some of those plays and things will open up. I'm sorry, but that play is on Eli.

He did not have Marshall...Sean Lee jumped the route if he throws to BM it's possibly a pick 6...he basically threw it away..

when an OL can't open up a hole no matter who the fucking RB is, dating back to Rashad fucking Jennings.

Forget about the OL from a pass-blocking standpoint. They're just as bad, if not worse, at run-blocking. And this is with 'continuity' along the OLine.

This is one of the worst OLines assembled in team history. Take a bow, Jerry..

Just another reason to bask Eli.

All falls back on the front office, HC, and a really bad OL.
Especially for the WCO.

It also be Dallas kicked our butt because they are real too.

Eli getting beat up as he has for many a season still shocked he is still standing at times. Like Simms will not be appreciated until he is gone.

If the Steelers drafted him instead of Ben he would have had four or five rings.

In comment 13597536 jlukes said:

Quote:

In comment 13597531 djstat said: Quote: Who has performed at a winning level with such a mediocre line? He is jittery because he had no time to throw Rothlisberger Rodgers Brady Peyton

When did Peyton win behind a medicore line??

In comment 13597522 ZGiants98 said:

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Eli has lost nothing on his fastball. He still has zip on his throws... his one deep pass he actually OVERTHREW a receiver. He was eluding a ton of pressure in the pocket. If anything he's more intelligent now (football wise) than he's ever been. People think we had a shit line in 2011 but that line actually came together down the stretch. Eli has never had a line this bad. I think if you're one of those people that automatically assumed the two worst offensive tackles in football were going to improve this year, or you're one of those people that thinks a blocking TE and a blocking receiver( Marshall) were going to fix the line... you're now going to shift blame to Eli because you are "shocked". Nope. It's still the line folks. The number two issue is the system. We are basically running a vanilla' down version of the west coast. It's 2017. Teams know how to plan for that by now.

Ummm, you assume that arm strength is the only thing to look for in the down turn of QB. Yeah, NO! Eli is not the same QB. He falls down constantly. He throws some very off target passes that let his receiver do nothing but hope to make the catch. There is a whole lot more going on here. Acceptance of BS play and sorry excuses have become the norm lately. This I have to play better sounds great but if you don't play better it means nothing.

In comment 13597662 Go Terps said:

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or anyone to his right, when the entire offensive line is caving in and forcing him to his left? And if he did see him what's he supposed to do...throw it through the 6 linemen where Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg have allowed the pocket to completely collapse?

in 2 seconds no less.

In comment 13597624 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 13597618 UberAlias said: Quote: That impacts every decision that is made when it comes to FA. The priority was justly the defense. But were there any FAs signed in the past two years who could have helped on the Oline? Most likely. If you're going to say that Eli's salary prevented us from signing an O-lineman to help out, please name an example. We're currently about 5 million under the cap.

How about doing what the Vikings did? They signed starter at both tackle spots and looking good.
Link - ( New Window )

he got beat up for. It was a pass to a WR, who I think was BM, but not sure at this point. The broadcasters and fans killed him for overthrowing the receiver. However, during the replay you saw the linebacker, I think Lee, in front of the pass lane jump up and almost touch the ball. If Eli threw the ball any lower it would of been a pick. Maybe it was a bad decision, but the throw was where it had to be.