The problem is the qb. In the two recent Superbowl seasons, the qb played at a hall of fame caliber, especially during the post season. We cant take that away from him. We can NEVER take that away from him. However, he is now a shell of that guy. He's jittery in the pocket, he cant move, he cant even step away from pressure, he rushes his reads. Even when he has adequate time, he still doesn't go through his progressions, and takes dump offs prematurely. Unfortunately when you have a below avg line and a below avg running game, the qb must pick up the slack Our qb does not. In fact, he's now become part of the problem.It started last year in the Minnesota game. Check the tape of Eli. Until the Giants improve the line and/or the running game, Eli will be a BELOW AVERAGE qb in this offense. We need someone with mobility or else we will not be able to make another Superbowl run, in spite of the current stellar defense.
Sorry in advance to all the Eli apologists
The offensive scheme sucks as does the playcalling and neither has a chance with Jerry's Kids on the o-line.
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In comment 13597618 UberAlias said:
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That impacts every decision that is made when it comes to FA. The priority was justly the defense. But were there any FAs signed in the past two years who could have helped on the Oline? Most likely.
If you're going to say that Eli's salary prevented us from signing an O-lineman to help out, please name an example. We're currently about 5 million under the cap.
How about doing what the Vikings did? They signed starter at both tackle spots and looking good. Link - ( New Window )
With the frequency that Eli checks at the line, how do any of us know what the true play call is?
Are you serious with this post? You know, it is football where they actually hit each other.
Eli's been the quarterback here since 2004. 200 games.
When has he ever been mobile? How many times has it been apparent that his quality of play falls if he is forced to throw the ball off schedule and off rhythm? How many times has it been made clear that his passing quality goes down if his fundamentals aren't sharp?
EVERYONE knows what type of player he is. That's what makes the decay of the offensive line all the more vexing.
As Eli aged our investment in the offensive line should have been, IMO, the #1 priority on the team. It has not been.
McAdoo or Eli?
Who's fault is it. I don't think both's heads will roll. OBJ's contract is looming, the O-Line needs to be rebuilt. Still need a stud RB. As crazy as it is to say, it doesn't seem far fetched for the Giants to cut Eli, let Geno vs. Webb duke it out at QB and free up all that $$$ to fix the O at large.
This would allow patience with McAdoo which is what they always prefer to do with HC and front office. Trusting evaluations, good human beings, etc.
Hmmmm... are the 32's dupes?
Im sorry, but did you actually watch the Seattle game at all? Wilson was atrocious. 14/27 158 yards 0 tds 0 ints 1 Fumble and 33 QBR. Their offense was EVERY BIT as much of a cluterfuck as ours was. Totally inept and they had all of their players minus Rawls.
A lobbed pass into the middle of the football field? That has INT written all over it.
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Clear as day to see that we have a shit OL but we're not the only team dealing with that. Take Seattle as an example, you could argue that their OL has been worse, yet their offense hasn't been the complete clusterfuck that ours has been. As is clear by this thread, there is a vocal contingent that wants to place blame everywhere but at the QB position. The fact is, Eli is being paid franchise QB money and he isn't performing anywhere close to that level. He's been almost as bad as this OL and with the amount of money he's being paid, he's not a guy that should have to be propped up just to even get a mediocre product out on the field. He should be elevating the offense despite its weaknesses. I don't believe he's done physically, however I'm afraid he's showing signs of significant mental regression. He's got the yips, he's shellshocked. He needs to be better.
Im sorry, but did you actually watch the Seattle game at all? Wilson was atrocious. 14/27 158 yards 0 tds 0 ints 1 Fumble and 33 QBR. Their offense was EVERY BIT as much of a cluterfuck as ours was. Totally inept and they had all of their players minus Rawls.
Everything I'm referencing extends back to last year. Our problems extend beyond one game.
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neither is Eli's accuracy or mobility.
Eli's been the quarterback here since 2004. 200 games.
When has he ever been mobile? How many times has it been apparent that his quality of play falls if he is forced to throw the ball off schedule and off rhythm? How many times has it been made clear that his passing quality goes down if his fundamentals aren't sharp?
EVERYONE knows what type of player he is. That's what makes the decay of the offensive line all the more vexing.
As Eli aged our investment in the offensive line should have been, IMO, the #1 priority on the team. It has not been.
I think a lot of what the unhappiness with Eli boils down to is that if you're paying a QB $20m+ per year, you shouldn't also need everything else around him to be in tip top shape in order for the results not to go to shit.
Even with the OL being what it is, a lot of posters think a team simply needs to get better QB play for $20m. I am one of them.
I don't think anyone expects Pro Bowl stats with the type of OL play Eli has had in front of him of late. There is also a massive chasm between pro bowl stats and Eli's stats over the recent past.
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In comment 13597758 xman said:
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neither is Eli's accuracy or mobility.
Eli's been the quarterback here since 2004. 200 games.
When has he ever been mobile? How many times has it been apparent that his quality of play falls if he is forced to throw the ball off schedule and off rhythm? How many times has it been made clear that his passing quality goes down if his fundamentals aren't sharp?
EVERYONE knows what type of player he is. That's what makes the decay of the offensive line all the more vexing.
As Eli aged our investment in the offensive line should have been, IMO, the #1 priority on the team. It has not been.
I think a lot of what the unhappiness with Eli boils down to is that if you're paying a QB $20m+ per year, you shouldn't also need everything else around him to be in tip top shape in order for the results not to go to shit.
Even with the OL being what it is, a lot of posters think a team simply needs to get better QB play for $20m. I am one of them.
I don't think anyone expects Pro Bowl stats with the type of OL play Eli has had in front of him of late. There is also a massive chasm between pro bowl stats and Eli's stats over the recent past.
This about sums up my sentiments.
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In comment 13597758 xman said:
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neither is Eli's accuracy or mobility.
Eli's been the quarterback here since 2004. 200 games.
When has he ever been mobile? How many times has it been apparent that his quality of play falls if he is forced to throw the ball off schedule and off rhythm? How many times has it been made clear that his passing quality goes down if his fundamentals aren't sharp?
EVERYONE knows what type of player he is. That's what makes the decay of the offensive line all the more vexing.
As Eli aged our investment in the offensive line should have been, IMO, the #1 priority on the team. It has not been.
I think a lot of what the unhappiness with Eli boils down to is that if you're paying a QB $20m+ per year, you shouldn't also need everything else around him to be in tip top shape in order for the results not to go to shit.
Even with the OL being what it is, a lot of posters think a team simply needs to get better QB play for $20m. I am one of them.
I don't think anyone expects Pro Bowl stats with the type of OL play Eli has had in front of him of late. There is also a massive chasm between pro bowl stats and Eli's stats over the recent past.
He threw for over 4k yards with 26 tds and 16 ints. Those arent bad stats.
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In comment 13597836 Go Terps said:
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In comment 13597758 xman said:
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neither is Eli's accuracy or mobility.
Eli's been the quarterback here since 2004. 200 games.
When has he ever been mobile? How many times has it been apparent that his quality of play falls if he is forced to throw the ball off schedule and off rhythm? How many times has it been made clear that his passing quality goes down if his fundamentals aren't sharp?
EVERYONE knows what type of player he is. That's what makes the decay of the offensive line all the more vexing.
As Eli aged our investment in the offensive line should have been, IMO, the #1 priority on the team. It has not been.
I think a lot of what the unhappiness with Eli boils down to is that if you're paying a QB $20m+ per year, you shouldn't also need everything else around him to be in tip top shape in order for the results not to go to shit.
Even with the OL being what it is, a lot of posters think a team simply needs to get better QB play for $20m. I am one of them.
I don't think anyone expects Pro Bowl stats with the type of OL play Eli has had in front of him of late. There is also a massive chasm between pro bowl stats and Eli's stats over the recent past.
He threw for over 4k yards with 26 tds and 16 ints. Those arent bad stats.
And the 2 years before that he threw 65 tds to 28 ints. Where are these bad stats you are looking at?
In any case, the specific stats were not the main point of what I posted.
In any case, the specific stats were not the main point of what I posted.
Come next year 20+ mill for a QB will be middle of the pack. Just look at what a guy like Stafford got and what Cousins will get next year. Neither guy even has a playoff win. You need to get over the money he is being paid, because that is run of the mill for a decent QB.
You're getting too hung up on the comment I made in the last part about the stats.
Link - ( New Window )
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They aren't very good, either.
In any case, the specific stats were not the main point of what I posted.
Come next year 20+ mill for a QB will be middle of the pack. Just look at what a guy like Stafford got and what Cousins will get next year. Neither guy even has a playoff win. You need to get over the money he is being paid, because that is run of the mill for a decent QB.
Both of the QBs you mention have been head and shoulders better for the last 15-20 games.
You're getting too hung up on the comment I made in the last part about the stats.
Im not disagreeing about his play, I am mearly stating that there is a reason for it. All the Eli "apologists" are pointing out the reason for it. There is tangible evidence everywhere that this line has been a bottom 5 line for the past 7 years. What other QB has had to deal with that for not only the past 15-20 games, but the past 50?
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In comment 13597868 bigbluehoya said:
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They aren't very good, either.
In any case, the specific stats were not the main point of what I posted.
Come next year 20+ mill for a QB will be middle of the pack. Just look at what a guy like Stafford got and what Cousins will get next year. Neither guy even has a playoff win. You need to get over the money he is being paid, because that is run of the mill for a decent QB.
Both of the QBs you mention have been head and shoulders better for the last 15-20 games.
Cousins also has one of the best LT's in the game and has a MUCH better OL.
How do you get rid of a HOF QB who is expensive and older? Maybe by not letting him succeed by giving him no protection or even God forbid get banged around so much he just retires or worse.
I put nothing beyond anybody these days. I have seen too much as things have radically changed in my lifetime. I may be crazy paranoid, but there are too few Wellington Maras around anywhere anymore.
I expect a nasty response, OK maybe I deserve it, but its an explanation of facts that most of us would agree on (IBE), why neglect the O line for a decade?
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In comment 13597531 djstat said:
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Who has performed at a winning level with such a mediocre line? He is jittery because he had no time to throw
Rothlisberger
Rodgers
Brady
Peyton
I don't Agree with list. The first problem is comparing Eli with this current line to roethlisberger, or Rodgers isn't comparable, those guys have mobility Eli never had. Brady and Peyton is the apt comparison, even then though it's not as simple to just look at numbers, what were their running games like? What was their offensive philosophy, how much and for how long had they been beaten up?
Eli is dealing with being knocked around too much for too long, and I believe it's taken a toll mentally. But he is also dealing with an offense that has no threat outside of Beckham, add this current OL, and the.possibility of questionable play calling and you get the result we got Sunday night.
Multiple things have combined to form this, but to me, it ALL starts up front.
You hit the nail in the head. Just to add, watch how Sean Lee drops under esth Marshall's route. Eli has nowhere to go with that ball.
As I've said before, cut Jerry. He can't run block or pass block. Short term, I'd put Wheeler at LT, Jones at RG and Flowers at RT. And yes, EF will have issues at RT...if it's too tough for him, he can be LG and move Pugh to RT. This line will still suck at run blocking, but it won't be worst than the current starting line. At least Eli will have a shot at completing passes.
Long term, if the team collapses the first half, then the Front Office should explore what they can get for Eli. I'm not in favor of trading him, but even if you devote the next two drafts to just Offensive Linemen, it's likely too late in Eli's career to make a difference. It will take a few years for them to develop.
Trading Eli should get some badly needed high draft picks, even at his age, for a team that has a closing window (Arizona, for example...you know Palmer is due for his annual injury. Denver might think they are close enough to make it worth getting Eli, or even Jacksonville might think Eli puts them over the hump).
If you're against trading Eli, are you really confident in this Front Office getting him the help he needs? And no, I don't think this happens because I think the owners wouldn't allow it, even if it might be in the team's long term interest.
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Nobody is complaining about 2014 Eli right now. We're talking about the last 15-20 games in which the offense's results have been miserable, and Eli's play has been somewhere between poor and fair.
You're getting too hung up on the comment I made in the last part about the stats.
Im not disagreeing about his play, I am mearly stating that there is a reason for it. All the Eli "apologists" are pointing out the reason for it. There is tangible evidence everywhere that this line has been a bottom 5 line for the past 7 years. What other QB has had to deal with that for not only the past 15-20 games, but the past 50?
Sure, that isn't lost on me. I think we just disagree. You think that the play of the OL excuses what we've seen from Eli. I think it's a factor but that he still should be better than he's been.
I like Eli. I'm certainly not throwing all of it on him. I just don't think he's very good right now. Better OL play would help a ton, but he also needs to be a lot better.
Eli will finish this contract as the highest paid player in NFL history. It goes both ways.
and what enabled Lee to do that?
Eli's eyes. He telegraphed it all the way. He was not the victim on that play.
I guess that settles it. This guy DEFINITELY knows what he's watching.
How do you get rid of a HOF QB who is expensive and older? Maybe by not letting him succeed by giving him no protection or even God forbid get banged around so much he just retires or worse.
I put nothing beyond anybody these days. I have seen too much as things have radically changed in my lifetime. I may be crazy paranoid, but there are too few Wellington Maras around anywhere anymore.
I expect a nasty response, OK maybe I deserve it, but its an explanation of facts that most of us would agree on (IBE), why neglect the O line for a decade?
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Just to add, watch how Sean Lee drops under esth Marshall's route. Eli has nowhere to go with that ball.
and what enabled Lee to do that?
Eli's eyes. He telegraphed it all the way. He was not the victim on that play.
Do you really think Qb's throw passes without looking?
Dallas, not worried about the outside flooded the middle of the field with defenders, do you really think manning should throw blind over the middle?
Also you aren't giving Sean Lee any credit, Lee is.an exceptional lb, both run and coverage
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In comment 13597888 DisgruntledGiantsfan said:
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Just to add, watch how Sean Lee drops under esth Marshall's route. Eli has nowhere to go with that ball.
and what enabled Lee to do that?
Eli's eyes. He telegraphed it all the way. He was not the victim on that play.
Do you really think Qb's throw passes without looking?
Dallas, not worried about the outside flooded the middle of the field with defenders, do you really think manning should throw blind over the middle?
Also you aren't giving Sean Lee any credit, Lee is.an exceptional lb, both run and coverage
Lee is an excellent player.
Eli also stared down Marshall on that play. NBC showed a great replay of Lee looking directly at Manning looking directly at Marshall for about two full seconds.
One play, I'm not going to kill Eli for it. I just thought it was an awful example of Eli being a victim of outside factors.
Is that even possible based on where he was, the rushers and others in coverage or are you saying that based on nothing?
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Just to add, watch how Sean Lee drops under esth Marshall's route. Eli has nowhere to go with that ball.
and what enabled Lee to do that?
Eli's eyes. He telegraphed it all the way. He was not the victim on that play.
Did you talk to Sean Lee? What are you basing that on?
Eli's been a great QB. Coughlin was a great coach. Nothing lasts forever and it is unfortunate that Reese gambled on an aging QB without taking the precaution of at least trying to upgrade a horrible line.
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In comment 13597888 DisgruntledGiantsfan said:
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Just to add, watch how Sean Lee drops under esth Marshall's route. Eli has nowhere to go with that ball.
and what enabled Lee to do that?
Eli's eyes. He telegraphed it all the way. He was not the victim on that play.
Did you talk to Sean Lee? What are you basing that on?
The replay that they showed during the game that showed exactly what I described in my last post.
The problem is more than one thing.