The problem is the qb. In the two recent Superbowl seasons, the qb played at a hall of fame caliber, especially during the post season. We cant take that away from him. We can NEVER take that away from him. However, he is now a shell of that guy. He's jittery in the pocket, he cant move, he cant even step away from pressure, he rushes his reads. Even when he has adequate time, he still doesn't go through his progressions, and takes dump offs prematurely. Unfortunately when you have a below avg line and a below avg running game, the qb must pick up the slack Our qb does not. In fact, he's now become part of the problem.It started last year in the Minnesota game. Check the tape of Eli. Until the Giants improve the line and/or the running game, Eli will be a BELOW AVERAGE qb in this offense. We need someone with mobility or else we will not be able to make another Superbowl run, in spite of the current stellar defense.
Sorry in advance to all the Eli apologists
The problem is more than one thing.
You're absolutely right, but that's not what I did. Someone used that play as an example of Eli being in a shitty situation or hung out to dry by his team/offense/whatever, and I pointed out that it was a bad example.
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In comment 13597898 bigbluehoya said:
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In comment 13597888 DisgruntledGiantsfan said:
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Just to add, watch how Sean Lee drops under esth Marshall's route. Eli has nowhere to go with that ball.
and what enabled Lee to do that?
Eli's eyes. He telegraphed it all the way. He was not the victim on that play.
Did you talk to Sean Lee? What are you basing that on?
The replay that they showed during the game that showed exactly what I described in my last post.
You saw a video of the play...You don't know what Sean Lee was thinking, what Eli was thinking and I doubt the view was close enough on both sides to show what both of their eyes were doing. Absent an interview of both, you don't know what happened. You'd also have to have a view of his eyes throughout the whole play to know where else he looked.
Who knows, that may have been the case, but you've provided nothing to prove that.
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I know nothing, and you sound like a complete jackass.
Who knows, that may have been the case, but you've provided nothing to prove that.
Nothing you wanted to hear, at least. I'm sure the guys on the broadcast were also just pissing in the wind when they pointed it out with replay evidence.
Either way, it doesn't totally invalidate the point you were trying to make. It just wasn't a good example of Eli the Battered QB who gets no help.
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In comment 13597972 bigbluehoya said:
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I know nothing, and you sound like a complete jackass.
Who knows, that may have been the case, but you've provided nothing to prove that.
Nothing you wanted to hear, at least. I'm sure the guys on the broadcast were also just pissing in the wind when they pointed it out with replay evidence.
Either way, it doesn't totally invalidate the point you were trying to make. It just wasn't a good example of Eli the Battered QB who gets no help.
You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
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You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
Whatever dude. Just look at all the "this offensive line needs to be fixed" stuff that's going around. Talking about who's available or who we can trade to fix this line. It's an awful Oline. Period. Any QB behind this line will hear footsteps and fail. But keep on saying it's on Eli, you sound like an idiot. The only positive is that your not alone. A lot of dumb on BBI lately.
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You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
In case you missed this piece. See the link. But yup it's Eli.
Link - ( New Window )
The NFLPA needs to agree that more practice time is needed or the offensive product suffers.
The NFLPA needs to agree that more practice time is needed or the offensive product suffers.
A union's job is to look after it's people. It's the league's job to look after the product, and they don't care either. Or else they would never have agreed to it.
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In comment 13598011 map7711 said:
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You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
Whatever dude. Just look at all the "this offensive line needs to be fixed" stuff that's going around. Talking about who's available or who we can trade to fix this line. It's an awful Oline. Period. Any QB behind this line will hear footsteps and fail. But keep on saying it's on Eli, you sound like an idiot. The only positive is that your not alone. A lot of dumb on BBI lately.
Nobody is throwing it all on Eli. Clearly the offensive line blows. That doesn't absolve Eli of all and any blame. He also needs to play better. That's all anyone is saying.
The suggestion that Eli isn't above criticism really takes some people to their dark, emotional, reactive place.
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In comment 13598027 bigbluehoya said:
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In comment 13598011 map7711 said:
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You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
Whatever dude. Just look at all the "this offensive line needs to be fixed" stuff that's going around. Talking about who's available or who we can trade to fix this line. It's an awful Oline. Period. Any QB behind this line will hear footsteps and fail. But keep on saying it's on Eli, you sound like an idiot. The only positive is that your not alone. A lot of dumb on BBI lately.
Nobody is throwing it all on Eli. Clearly the offensive line blows. That doesn't absolve Eli of all and any blame. He also needs to play better. That's all anyone is saying.
The suggestion that Eli isn't above criticism really takes some people to their dark, emotional, reactive place.
What you have to remember the Giants won two SBs against the best QB that ever lived and made him look average. In 07 that was the most prolific scoring team in the history of the NFL with the best QB ever and we made look average. How? We put constant pressure. He heard footsteps and felt that pressure. They scored 14 points. 14!!! Then we did the same thing to him again in '11. The point is even the greatest QB with constant pressure will look bad. Give Eli some time, he will win. Period. He's done it before and will do it again. And I don't believe in the he's regressed theories either. Because the PO game last year he played well. That was the last game last year! He still has it and if we can fix this line somehow, he will prove all the naysayers wrong as he has done his whole career.
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In comment 13597972 bigbluehoya said:
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I know nothing, and you sound like a complete jackass.
Who knows, that may have been the case, but you've provided nothing to prove that.
Nothing you wanted to hear, at least. I'm sure the guys on the broadcast were also just pissing in the wind when they pointed it out with replay evidence.
Either way, it doesn't totally invalidate the point you were trying to make. It just wasn't a good example of Eli the Battered QB who gets no help.
For starters I didn't make any of those points. You know as well as I do that if BBI disagreed with what the broadcasters said you wouldn't be touting them as evidence of anything. If you want to prove that, pull an interview from Lee on the play or get the coaches film. Beyond that your drawing conclusions based a video clip and what the broadcasters told you.
Eli never was known for making plays with his legs.
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In comment 13598011 map7711 said:
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You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
In case you missed this piece. See the link. But yup it's Eli. Link - ( New Window )
If Bart Scott is your backup, you probably shouldn't be calling out anyone for their football IQ.
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In comment 13597982 JOrthman said:
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In comment 13597972 bigbluehoya said:
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I know nothing, and you sound like a complete jackass.
Who knows, that may have been the case, but you've provided nothing to prove that.
Nothing you wanted to hear, at least. I'm sure the guys on the broadcast were also just pissing in the wind when they pointed it out with replay evidence.
Either way, it doesn't totally invalidate the point you were trying to make. It just wasn't a good example of Eli the Battered QB who gets no help.
For starters I didn't make any of those points. You know as well as I do that if BBI disagreed with what the broadcasters said you wouldn't be touting them as evidence of anything. If you want to prove that, pull an interview from Lee on the play or get the coaches film. Beyond that your drawing conclusions based a video clip and what the broadcasters told you.
You can pound sand with your "go find an interview" bullshit. You go watch the replay that was smacked right in the middle of the damn game that you watched. And then show the same clip to 100 people. 99 of them will tell you that the QB locked on to the receiver early and the LB read him. 1 of them will as you to go find an interview of the LB.
For fuck's sake.
Any QB in the league would look like shit behind this joke of an offensive line stupid ass Jerry Reese keeps failing to restock with good talent. All of his moves have been too little too late out of desperation. His draft choices have not panned out and his FA signings have been complete failures.
Any QB would struggle. You are paying Eli 20 million per because he has proven what he can do. You don't pay someone to improvise, you pay them to run your system properly. Eli is one of the most qualified QBs in the league and if you think someone else would have more success you are kidding yourself. In fact, if Reese continues to do nothing with the line Eli should probably hold out for more money.
Any QB in the league would look like shit behind this joke of an offensive line stupid ass Jerry Reese keeps failing to restock with good talent. All of his moves have been too little too late out of desperation. His draft choices have not panned out and his FA signings have been complete failures.
Any QB would struggle. You are paying Eli 20 million per because he has proven what he can do. You don't pay someone to improvise, you pay them to run your system properly. Eli is one of the most qualified QBs in the league and if you think someone else would have more success you are kidding yourself. In fact, if Reese continues to do nothing with the line Eli should probably hold out for more money.
Amen.
Any QB in the league would look like shit behind this joke of an offensive line stupid ass Jerry Reese keeps failing to restock with good talent. All of his moves have been too little too late out of desperation. His draft choices have not panned out and his FA signings have been complete failures.
Any QB would struggle. You are paying Eli 20 million per because he has proven what he can do. You don't pay someone to improvise, you pay them to run your system properly. Eli is one of the most qualified QBs in the league and if you think someone else would have more success you are kidding yourself. In fact, if Reese continues to do nothing with the line Eli should probably hold out for more money.
Let him hold out for more money. He's already on track to be the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. He's not even the best QB of his era by a wide margin, and yet he's going to end his career as the highest paid player the league has ever had. Hold out for more money? Try not locking onto your first read first.
Oh, sorry Jerry. Should we not be discussing football on a football message board? Is that not what you thunk we were here for?
Not career earnings.
the ol is and was horrendous but if you're a $20 mil qb you have TO perform which he hasn't lately on a consistent basis.period.
Cool, you already got a headstart on remembering him fondly. Now if you wouldn't mind taking your circle jerk off to the side, maybe everyone else can get back to discussing the present and future.
So, if PFF is anywhere near correct in the way they score individual performances, the running backs never got started. Should they have continued to run the ball? Should they have given the ball to Darkwa at least 10 carries?
If PFF rankings are correct, it takes it down to play calling. Jam the run, forcing the Giants to pass. Jam the middle of the field on pass plays, and there's nowhere to throw the ball in less than 3 seconds. Unless I went into a coma, which was likely, the only pass to stretch the field was a useless overthrow to Marshall that wasn't close to anyone playing football.
It was good to see some new formations, but when a team is averaging 5.8 yards a completion, which there wasn't enough of those either, and almost every one of them inside the hashmarks, it'll make a long night for any NFL team.
My only suggestion is to hope for everyone to get their game together, especially the run game. McGoo needs to admit to himself he's not an offensive genius and pass the baton. Give the ball to the hungry guy- 3 carries and he averaged 4.7 yards a carry. 3 x 4.7 = 14.1 yards. We could have had some 1st downs and taken pressure off of Eli.
Link - ( New Window )
Eli gets paid $20M per year. He's being treated more than fairly regardless of fan criticism.
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In comment 13598027 bigbluehoya said:
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In comment 13598011 map7711 said:
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You have no clue my man. Have no idea what your are saying and no clue on what you are watching. Go cheer for the Jets. Please.
You're doing a tremendous job of contributing to the discussion around here. Keep up the good work.
In case you missed this piece. See the link. But yup it's Eli. Link - ( New Window )
If Bart Scott is your backup, you probably shouldn't be calling out anyone for their football IQ.
Yea I'll listen to an ex NFL player over some dude on a fan site everyday.
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Eli deserves better fans.
Eli gets paid $20M per year. He's being treated more than fairly regardless of fan criticism.
Money is irrelevant, fans don't pay his salary. In my view Manning deserves more grace than what he's getting.
Frontrunning trash.
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In comment 13598216 SHO'NUFF said:
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Eli deserves better fans.
Eli gets paid $20M per year. He's being treated more than fairly regardless of fan criticism.
Money is irrelevant, fans don't pay his salary. In my view Manning deserves more grace than what he's getting.
Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the criticism comes with the territory and is related to the money in two ways: 1) that level of money is only afforded because of the sport's popularity, and 2) Eli hasn't played like a $20MM QB since at least 2015.
Now, you can say that the fans don't pay the salary, and even leaving aside the correlation of fan popularity making that salary possible (and by extension, funding it), but the reality is if you feel, as I do, that Eli hasn't been playing well enough to justify his salary over the past year and appears to be in decline, it's a worthwhile question to ask whether he - and his salary - are hamstringing the team from improving in any other areas.
And the point I made earlier (or maybe on one of the other myriad Eli threads) about Eli being on track to finish this contract having earned more money than any other player in NFL history is this: has he, at any point in his career, been the best player in the NFL? Has he ever been the best QB in the NFL? Yet he will have earned more money than any of his contemporaries. How much better could any of our teams been over the years had Eli not squeezed every penny from the Giants? Is it a coincidence that the Patriots have had an extended dynasty while Brady has taken less money?
If Eli needs OL help, then let him give back some money to fund those acquisitions. Otherwise, are we supposed to mortgage the future of the team and retaining the young talent on the roster to make risky moves by trading picks and taking on contracts of aging OL veterans?
Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I don't think a ton of sympathy (or grace, as you put it) is necessary for a player that will have made over $200MM over the course of his career in a zero sum salary cap environment where every dollar that he earned by definition did not go to any other roster reinforcements. He has to be able to overcome some shortcomings by virtue of his salary IMO, and if he can't, that's worthy of some criticism.
Look at 2011, running game was dead last in the league, and Eli had his best season. Yes, a good running game will help ANY QB, Eli is no exception, but he has been very good with poor OL play before.
If you watch the all 22 tape, the OL is getting beat somewhere on every play. I don't know PFF's criteria, but I have to wonder what they were looking at. The line play was horrid.
If everyone blames the OL why do so many on here, who don't know the assignments or internals of the game, rush to blame Eli? I think the Papacast is great where Diehl is ripping the line. I side with those guys who have played. If Eli is getting skiddish as the game goes on, well he likely should with the lousy line. Again, Brady was skiddish last week too after his line failed.
Without pass protection no QB can function.
If everyone blames the OL why do so many on here, who don't know the assignments or internals of the game, rush to blame Eli? I think the Papacast is great where Diehl is ripping the line. I side with those guys who have played. If Eli is getting skiddish as the game goes on, well he likely should with the lousy line. Again, Brady was skiddish last week too after his line failed.
Without pass protection no QB can function.
Exactly, the problem is this O-line isn't just NFL bad or even college bad they are high school bad at this point, they can't even handle a basic stunt!!!
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In comment 13598223 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13598216 SHO'NUFF said:
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Eli deserves better fans.
Eli gets paid $20M per year. He's being treated more than fairly regardless of fan criticism.
Money is irrelevant, fans don't pay his salary. In my view Manning deserves more grace than what he's getting.
Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the criticism comes with the territory and is related to the money in two ways: 1) that level of money is only afforded because of the sport's popularity, and 2) Eli hasn't played like a $20MM QB since at least 2015.
Now, you can say that the fans don't pay the salary, and even leaving aside the correlation of fan popularity making that salary possible (and by extension, funding it), but the reality is if you feel, as I do, that Eli hasn't been playing well enough to justify his salary over the past year and appears to be in decline, it's a worthwhile question to ask whether he - and his salary - are hamstringing the team from improving in any other areas.
And the point I made earlier (or maybe on one of the other myriad Eli threads) about Eli being on track to finish this contract having earned more money than any other player in NFL history is this: has he, at any point in his career, been the best player in the NFL? Has he ever been the best QB in the NFL? Yet he will have earned more money than any of his contemporaries. How much better could any of our teams been over the years had Eli not squeezed every penny from the Giants? Is it a coincidence that the Patriots have had an extended dynasty while Brady has taken less money?
If Eli needs OL help, then let him give back some money to fund those acquisitions. Otherwise, are we supposed to mortgage the future of the team and retaining the young talent on the roster to make risky moves by trading picks and taking on contracts of aging OL veterans?
Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree, but I don't think a ton of sympathy (or grace, as you put it) is necessary for a player that will have made over $200MM over the course of his career in a zero sum salary cap environment where every dollar that he earned by definition did not go to any other roster reinforcements. He has to be able to overcome some shortcomings by virtue of his salary IMO, and if he can't, that's worthy of some criticism.
Interesting point on Eli giving money back, he could easily have offered to restructure ala Brady in order to bring in some OL help. Even though his wife isn't making as much as Brady's (who's does?) he could have looked at it as an investment in his health and welfare. Plus he would still get the money down the road...
Last year, the NFL MVP was Matt Ryan. According to the writers, he was the "best" QB last year, or best performing QB.
If Eli is the problem, then surely Matt Ryan on this Giants team would make the offense hum. Afterall, he's the MVP.
So with this offensive line that cannot open up running lanes or push the defensive line back, and with this offensive line that gives up sacks and cannot maintain a pocket against 4! down linemen, how would Matt Ryan make this offense a success? Whene Matt Ryan is under duress immediately not knowing who the worst OL is going to be on any particular play, and he has to quickly get rid of the ball and throw against 6 and 7 defenders in coverage because the defense does not have to worry about a run or long-developing plays, where is he going with the ball?
What would Matt Ryan do in this situation that would be different from Eli?
Last year, the NFL MVP was Matt Ryan. According to the writers, he was the "best" QB last year, or best performing QB.
If Eli is the problem, then surely Matt Ryan on this Giants team would make the offense hum. Afterall, he's the MVP.
So with this offensive line that cannot open up running lanes or push the defensive line back, and with this offensive line that gives up sacks and cannot maintain a pocket against 4! down linemen, how would Matt Ryan make this offense a success? Whene Matt Ryan is under duress immediately not knowing who the worst OL is going to be on any particular play, and he has to quickly get rid of the ball and throw against 6 and 7 defenders in coverage because the defense does not have to worry about a run or long-developing plays, where is he going with the ball?
What would Matt Ryan do in this situation that would be different from Eli?
more mobility...