It is clear that the defense knows what has been called at times. Despite the massive playsheet, it doesn't seem BM calls a large variety of plays or mix it up very much. Running '11' personnel so often with a very limited running game to set up play action tends to shorten the stroke.
every defensive line is able to control the line of scrimmage with 4 guys and sometimes 3. That allows them to sit 7 back and make it more difficult to pass.
and it's the same shit as last year when we couldn't get
behind a cover two because of the lack of the run game hell
even when we do open a hole there is no threat on this team
to make them pay anyways .
Thats a rookie saying that lol the one we should have took
over Annie Apples boy glad we don't have to listen to her
big mouth much anymore ...
Lots of option routes. Everyone knew what we ran then too, they just couldn't stop it when Eli had protection and Reuben Randle and Jerrel Jernigan weren't being relied upon.
It's clear that this offense is predictable and not schemed well. But that is a damning comment from your star WR.
I'm still trying to figure out what Mcadoo does well. I believe the offensive improvements since he took over for Gilbride had nothing to do with him and all to do with Beckham. Look at the games he's out- they can't move the ball.
this is the kind of shit that used to drive me nuts under coughlin Â
"Be better than them," Beckham said. "You know I'm running a slant, beat me on a slant. Do it. I don't see you doing it. That's just what it's got to be."
hard to out-execute when the defense and the whole audience essentially knows with a high degree of certainty what you're going to do.
Did McAdoo rip Beckham for dropping the ball when he's wide open?
They are following McAdoo's examples. He has pointed too many fingers to count over the past 2 years. Every time he said he is taking responsibility he never does. If he led by example then maybe that would trickle down. This is going to be an implosion of a year and there is plenty of blame to go around and McAdoo might be the main reason why.
Watching the All 22 was astonishing - they zone drop exactly where our Receivers are headed and just beat us to the spot.
Eli really has no chance. This offense is a joke and I am disappointed we thought it was a good idea to even hire McAdoo as an OC.
He is running a basic version of a WCO with route concepts every defender knows. And he has like 10 plays. Mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
I miss those back shoulder throws that Eli used to hit regularly back with Nicks and Plax. They were pretty much indefensible.
As for predictable plays on offense, one does wonder how Aaron Rodgers gets away with it every week, every season. It's pretty much the same WCO, right?
Are they able to spot the play call from the formation and personnel grouping? I know all offenses are reasonably predictable -- every offense has a limited number of plays, there's lots of tape, and if you break it down enough, you can figure out what the plays are. But that's not the same as being able to look at how the offense is lined up and guess what the play is going to be.
Is there a 1:1 correlation between formation/personnel and play call? Like, every time these players line up in this formation, they run that play?
If that's the case, WTF? (On the other hand, that's something you can fix. Right?)
Or: Were the Bucks understanding the signals called at the line? I mean, do opposing defenses know the Giants' terminology as well as the plays?
I think that this whole idea of "creativity" is overrated, that everybody is pretty much able to break down everybody else's film and spot play designs, tendencies, etc. (Well, except maybe the Patriots. BB is a true chameleon in that respect.) But the other team shouldn't be able to know your play call before the snap.
I may be wrong, but I only ever really remember McAdoo singling out Eli publicly with any regularity.
Why isn't Eli making similar complaints about play calling and design publicly?
Rats on a sinking ship.
He has criticized Beckham before by name last year. He has put blame on every unit (no names in particular) except the OL. He is almost always finding excuses for them. He says he leaves no stone unturned. He says they always self-assess. Imo, I have seen enough. The two things I liked about him last year was his new innovative ways of training and his game management. We are in agreement with the game management. He played to the strength of the team but that was also a scapegoat. His offense was brutal. This year his game management is not good at all. Almost every player is playing well below their talent level. They don't play as a unit. They make many mental errors. Imo, he is just not a leader of men. We can give him another year but I don't see why he should get another shot. If we get a top pick let the new coach pick his players (even if they want a QB early) and move on.
I hated the hiring process from the get go. If McAdoo earned it them fine but the Giants dragged their feet through the hiring process and didn't take advantage of interviewing as many candidates as they should have. It was clear they kept McAdoo because they wanted the same O and D so they didn't waste a year learning new systems. That is a bad reason to hoose a HC. I have played enough football and watched enough sports in my lifetime to know when someone has it or doesn't have it as a HC. McAdoo is not setting the right examples as the leader of this team to succeed. This isn't the 1980s olympic hockey team where you can call out your best guy and everybody follows suit. Those were kids whose jobs were threatened. These are professional athletes who still get paid. That is not a way to lead. He does not have Belichick's resume nor is he the GM where he can trade one of these guys. He just looks foolish when he throws blame on anyone else and not himself. A true leader of men with take all the blame and never accept any credit because he will give that credit to his players, soldiers, staff, etc. McAdoo doesn't get that.
done for the pas 23 years, almost every person in the room can call the next play, if us novices can do that I am sure defensive coordinators who make their living analyzing plays can do it better than we can. Look at a pass on 1st down for a short gain immediately followed by a run up the middle, look at the 60 yard pass on 3rd and short, no screens, no qb sneak, man, it is frustrating to sit and have to endure this every week.
Did McAdoo rip Beckham for dropping the ball when he's wide open?
Mac is no position to complain about being thrown under the bus legitimately, when he has shown no hesitation to do the same to people who did not in fact deserve it.
I was sort of surprised when I heard rhonde say on sunday Â
I was firmly in McAdoo's corner after last year, but he's losing me really quickly. And what really fucking irks me is that he seems to want to blame everyone but himself when he deserves a lot of it right now.
Beckham should keep these comments in-house, but this is the environment this HC has created and it's going to keep getting worse the more they lose.
Starting to think this guy is in way over his head. Which is a shame because I thought his game management last year was excellent and he seemed to be much more forward-thinking in terms of training methods, getting the young guys to buy in, etc.
For a guy who was brought here to fix the Giants offense, he's alarmingly predictable and ill-suited to do so right now.
RE: I was sort of surprised when I heard rhonde say on sunday Â
that the giants have very few and basic designed running plays in their playbook
thought would have larger and diverse..but I guess that's the product of a wco
I thought it was Tiki that said that which is why I thought the comment had credence - but regardless the lack of variety and complexion of the run game is something that I've always been suspicious of. OBJs comments today may be an indication that the pass offense may not be much better.
Did McAdoo rip Beckham for dropping the ball when he's wide open?
Mac is no position to complain about being thrown under the bus legitimately, when he has shown no hesitation to do the same to people who did not in fact deserve it.
McAdoo is the head coach. The public message on who does and doesn't get ripped should be crafted and delivered by him. It's not Beckham's place to be calling anyone out.
2 pass plays of more than 15 yards, 1 play of more than 25.
The week prior the aerial circus that is the Vikings with the immortal Case Keenum racked up 4 plays of 25 yards or more and 9 pass plays of 15 yards or more on the same defense.
We went from a frustrated opponent "I can't cover no option routes all day" to the opposition db sitting there having a cigarette and a coffee waiting for our receiver to show up and telling our players about it.
It needs to be fixed. We've got ODB, Shepard, Engram, Vereen and Marshall and can't get the ball 15 yards down field? WTF.
I may be wrong, but I only ever really remember McAdoo singling out Eli publicly with any regularity.
Why isn't Eli making similar complaints about play calling and design publicly?
Rats on a sinking ship.
He actually did. Told the media he thinks our 12 personnel is giving us a good look. Eli never makes comments like that. It tells me he's mentioned this to the coaching staff and it was disregarded.
“I was talking to coach (Ben McAdoo) today and the routes that we’re running and the DB’s – I talked to them after the game. They were like, ‘We know you’re running a certain route,’ “ Beckham said.
“They study film. I was talking to (Buccaneers corner Vernon) Hargreaves after the game and he was just like, ‘You know, we know a lot of what you’re doing.’ “
He was talking to the coach before he was talking to the media. He is not griping, he is not throwing anyone under the bus. It's an observation, confirmed by the defensive back playing opposite him, and he told his coaches. I'm not sure what the big deal is.
So if OBJ is this effective when the defense knows what is coming, how effective would he be with a better scheme and playcalling?
I was firmly in McAdoo's corner after last year, but he's losing me really quickly. And what really fucking irks me is that he seems to want to blame everyone but himself when he deserves a lot of it right now.
Beckham should keep these comments in-house, but this is the environment this HC has created and it's going to keep getting worse the more they lose.
Starting to think this guy is in way over his head. Which is a shame because I thought his game management last year was excellent and he seemed to be much more forward-thinking in terms of training methods, getting the young guys to buy in, etc.
For a guy who was brought here to fix the Giants offense, he's alarmingly predictable and ill-suited to do so right now.
+1
This is bad news. I was very optimistic for Mac. But leaving points on the field and his allocating blame have shown a regression in his performance. I also question his coaching personnel.
In the 80's, the Redskins had 3 bread and butter plays Â
You knew what was coming but still couldn't consistently stop it - mostly with respect to run game. We don't have the talent.
And OBJ needs to keep his mouth shut. He shit the bed in last year's playoffs with drops and he's dropping easy passes this year. Shut up and play well.
Alarming to say the least.
behind a cover two because of the lack of the run game hell
even when we do open a hole there is no threat on this team
to make them pay anyways .
Thats a rookie saying that lol the one we should have took
over Annie Apples boy glad we don't have to listen to her
big mouth much anymore ...
Sounds like a deflection from his own mistakes honestly.
I'm still trying to figure out what Mcadoo does well. I believe the offensive improvements since he took over for Gilbride had nothing to do with him and all to do with Beckham. Look at the games he's out- they can't move the ball.
hard to out-execute when the defense and the whole audience essentially knows with a high degree of certainty what you're going to do.
They are following McAdoo's examples. He has pointed too many fingers to count over the past 2 years. Every time he said he is taking responsibility he never does. If he led by example then maybe that would trickle down. This is going to be an implosion of a year and there is plenty of blame to go around and McAdoo might be the main reason why.
Eli really has no chance. This offense is a joke and I am disappointed we thought it was a good idea to even hire McAdoo as an OC.
He is running a basic version of a WCO with route concepts every defender knows. And he has like 10 plays. Mind-bogglingly ridiculous.
Why isn't Eli making similar complaints about play calling and design publicly?
Rats on a sinking ship.
As for predictable plays on offense, one does wonder how Aaron Rodgers gets away with it every week, every season. It's pretty much the same WCO, right?
Is there a 1:1 correlation between formation/personnel and play call? Like, every time these players line up in this formation, they run that play?
If that's the case, WTF? (On the other hand, that's something you can fix. Right?)
Or: Were the Bucks understanding the signals called at the line? I mean, do opposing defenses know the Giants' terminology as well as the plays?
I think that this whole idea of "creativity" is overrated, that everybody is pretty much able to break down everybody else's film and spot play designs, tendencies, etc. (Well, except maybe the Patriots. BB is a true chameleon in that respect.) But the other team shouldn't be able to know your play call before the snap.
Why isn't Eli making similar complaints about play calling and design publicly?
Rats on a sinking ship.
He has criticized Beckham before by name last year. He has put blame on every unit (no names in particular) except the OL. He is almost always finding excuses for them. He says he leaves no stone unturned. He says they always self-assess. Imo, I have seen enough. The two things I liked about him last year was his new innovative ways of training and his game management. We are in agreement with the game management. He played to the strength of the team but that was also a scapegoat. His offense was brutal. This year his game management is not good at all. Almost every player is playing well below their talent level. They don't play as a unit. They make many mental errors. Imo, he is just not a leader of men. We can give him another year but I don't see why he should get another shot. If we get a top pick let the new coach pick his players (even if they want a QB early) and move on.
I hated the hiring process from the get go. If McAdoo earned it them fine but the Giants dragged their feet through the hiring process and didn't take advantage of interviewing as many candidates as they should have. It was clear they kept McAdoo because they wanted the same O and D so they didn't waste a year learning new systems. That is a bad reason to hoose a HC. I have played enough football and watched enough sports in my lifetime to know when someone has it or doesn't have it as a HC. McAdoo is not setting the right examples as the leader of this team to succeed. This isn't the 1980s olympic hockey team where you can call out your best guy and everybody follows suit. Those were kids whose jobs were threatened. These are professional athletes who still get paid. That is not a way to lead. He does not have Belichick's resume nor is he the GM where he can trade one of these guys. He just looks foolish when he throws blame on anyone else and not himself. A true leader of men with take all the blame and never accept any credit because he will give that credit to his players, soldiers, staff, etc. McAdoo doesn't get that.
Also pretty disturbing that Beckham would go public with it. Would have been something better kept in house.
Of course the apologist for Beckham will find a way to rationalize yet another questionable decision.
Tell the coaches, if they don't do anything with it, escalate internally. Going to the media is the last thing he should be doing.
With Lee it's not just the Giants.
Tell the coaches, if they don't do anything with it, escalate internally. Going to the media is the last thing he should be doing.
Agree...
Shitty play caller and coordinator
Mac is no position to complain about being thrown under the bus legitimately, when he has shown no hesitation to do the same to people who did not in fact deserve it.
thought would have larger and diverse..but I guess that's the product of a wco
I was firmly in McAdoo's corner after last year, but he's losing me really quickly. And what really fucking irks me is that he seems to want to blame everyone but himself when he deserves a lot of it right now.
Beckham should keep these comments in-house, but this is the environment this HC has created and it's going to keep getting worse the more they lose.
Starting to think this guy is in way over his head. Which is a shame because I thought his game management last year was excellent and he seemed to be much more forward-thinking in terms of training methods, getting the young guys to buy in, etc.
For a guy who was brought here to fix the Giants offense, he's alarmingly predictable and ill-suited to do so right now.
thought would have larger and diverse..but I guess that's the product of a wco
I thought it was Tiki that said that which is why I thought the comment had credence - but regardless the lack of variety and complexion of the run game is something that I've always been suspicious of. OBJs comments today may be an indication that the pass offense may not be much better.
Quote:
Did McAdoo rip Beckham for dropping the ball when he's wide open?
Mac is no position to complain about being thrown under the bus legitimately, when he has shown no hesitation to do the same to people who did not in fact deserve it.
McAdoo is the head coach. The public message on who does and doesn't get ripped should be crafted and delivered by him. It's not Beckham's place to be calling anyone out.
The week prior the aerial circus that is the Vikings with the immortal Case Keenum racked up 4 plays of 25 yards or more and 9 pass plays of 15 yards or more on the same defense.
We went from a frustrated opponent "I can't cover no option routes all day" to the opposition db sitting there having a cigarette and a coffee waiting for our receiver to show up and telling our players about it.
It needs to be fixed. We've got ODB, Shepard, Engram, Vereen and Marshall and can't get the ball 15 yards down field? WTF.
Why isn't Eli making similar complaints about play calling and design publicly?
Rats on a sinking ship.
He actually did. Told the media he thinks our 12 personnel is giving us a good look. Eli never makes comments like that. It tells me he's mentioned this to the coaching staff and it was disregarded.
“I was talking to coach (Ben McAdoo) today and the routes that we’re running and the DB’s – I talked to them after the game. They were like, ‘We know you’re running a certain route,’ “ Beckham said.
“They study film. I was talking to (Buccaneers corner Vernon) Hargreaves after the game and he was just like, ‘You know, we know a lot of what you’re doing.’ “
He was talking to the coach before he was talking to the media. He is not griping, he is not throwing anyone under the bus. It's an observation, confirmed by the defensive back playing opposite him, and he told his coaches. I'm not sure what the big deal is.
So if OBJ is this effective when the defense knows what is coming, how effective would he be with a better scheme and playcalling?
I was firmly in McAdoo's corner after last year, but he's losing me really quickly. And what really fucking irks me is that he seems to want to blame everyone but himself when he deserves a lot of it right now.
Beckham should keep these comments in-house, but this is the environment this HC has created and it's going to keep getting worse the more they lose.
Starting to think this guy is in way over his head. Which is a shame because I thought his game management last year was excellent and he seemed to be much more forward-thinking in terms of training methods, getting the young guys to buy in, etc.
For a guy who was brought here to fix the Giants offense, he's alarmingly predictable and ill-suited to do so right now.
+1
This is bad news. I was very optimistic for Mac. But leaving points on the field and his allocating blame have shown a regression in his performance. I also question his coaching personnel.
And OBJ needs to keep his mouth shut. He shit the bed in last year's playoffs with drops and he's dropping easy passes this year. Shut up and play well.