I'm still numb to think the season could be over by Oct 1. With Denver on the road next week and Oakland / KC / LAR still ahead, are there any optimists that think we can realistically get to the playoffs ?
Not really, but all these players are saying this was the "breaking point" and that things are turning around right now.. so, it should be fun to hear what the new excuses are if they lose again.
the only hope is that they continue to lose, McAdoo gets fired, the team stays relatively healthy and they get a high draft pick. Other than that, this "team" is kaput.
Hope to see a number of players and a chunk of the team show signs of growth, absolutely should be realistic.
The 2017 Giants do not appear to be made of the same things as the 2016 Giants. That falls to coaching and getting this team to wake up. Press clippings and accolades a winning formula does not create. It's just words on paper. The team needs to re-engage its effort on the field.
Let's see if they can right the ship and win 7-8 games somehow.
One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.
the only realistic hope is that wayne gallman takes the starting RB job, sparks the offense by playing above the (predictable) Xs and Os, giving confidence to the team and they use that momentum go on a run.
It is a real long shot - only the 92 chargers made the playoffs in the modern era after starting 0-4.
does very little to help this team out moving into next year. Another middling draft pick, lousy round positioning coupled with what seems to be an inherent questionable ability to evaluate talent has me concerned. Not to mention an aging QB, an OL in shambles, a coach under fire, a GM possibly out the door...lots more questions than answers.
And i'm usually bullish about the Giants seasons. For some reason - record notwithstanding - this team just doesn't have it.
I've played in games where the team doesn't seem to want to even tackle opposing players. You can see a lack of effort and drive - but more importantly, you can feel it on the field and on the sideline. With this team, I can see it and feel it by watching television and replays. Lack of effort, lack of cohesion, terrible effort in tackling and engagement, slow, lackluster and lazy. It's all right there. This team is done.
Even if we turn it around and go 9-3 the rest of the way we would likely lose all tiebreakers. Even at 9-7, we are 0-2 already in the NFCE and 0-4 in the NFC.
It sure seems that way, the lack of focus and attention to the little details that made them successful last season are gone. A lot of poor play, mental errors, lack of in game awareness, attention to details, and unsportsmanlike nonsense when they actually do something positive.
this year then ever before. There is some definite hope.
I really think that our offense was paying so poorly in the first 2 weeks, because they had barely played together as a whole in the preseason. As much as we hate it, preseason does have some value.
We are now moving the ball, however, our defense is really struggling at this point. Can't stop the run and get off the field when needed.
One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.
Eh...people seem to forget all of the games, almost too numerous to count during TC's tenure, where the doors were completely blown off and they looked totally unprepared to play.
They are last in the NFC East, with losses on the books to 2 of the teams ahead of them. I count 9 teams with a better shot at the NFC Wild Card. They are being mentioned in the same sentence as the Browns and the Niners.
Any sliver of Hope will be gone if they shit the bed this weekend.
It sure seems that way, the lack of focus and attention to the little details that made them successful last season are gone. A lot of poor play, mental errors, lack of in game awareness, attention to details, and unsportsmanlike nonsense when they actually do something positive.
It's been like this for some time, though. Goes back before Mac. Is it the players we're drafting? We went through that round of drafting 'captains', doesn't seem like it did anything. Changed up the coaching staff (although not a full change by any stretch). We got one season of improvement and back in the dumps.
If you told any fans that you would lose away games @dallas, @philly, @TB, and a home game to what looks like a solid Detroit team, you would chalk that up to just playing good teams. Especially after losing the last 2 on last second FGs.
However, the fact that its happened in consecutive weeks, to start the season, it looks SO much worse. I still think this is a good team, and we have a bunch of guys who are not that old and have been above average players in this league as recently as last season.
If this team starts getting a few breaks, wins this weekend and 1 of the next 2 vs Den and Sea, I will be back on board. They would need to follow that up by winning the next 2 games after the bye as well and getting to 4-5.
It'll be tough to get a wildcard with 8 and 8 but divisions have been won with losing records so.....
The Eagles are in front but i don't seem them as a team with so much talent or well coached that they will break away from the pack. The Cowboys, much like us, seem to have come back down to earth after last year. The Redskins, as always, run hot and cold from week to week. You have to hope the other teams are no better than mediocre and have a couple of losing streaks all while we have to rattle off a few wins in a row. I don't think it is such a long shot but you have to wonder that even IF they win the division and make the playoffs are the Giants talented and well coached enough to make a Coughlin type run. I don't think so and at this point I think having a respectable record this year could be detrimental to the team in the long run. Meaning, there would be no change in GM, talent evaluation or other front office areas of need and we could even see the same poor effort poured into perennially bad positions, i.e. Offensive line, LB , RB. So not sure how to root for the team at this point.
I think there are players in that room who think they're great despite never having been a part of any winning teams in their careers. The receivers go on a boat trip before the playoffs. Beckham and Vernon (neither of whom have been on a team that's done anything) don't come to OTAs. JPP won't talk to the media because he's playing like shit.
These guys are the leaders on the team. They're the ones the young guys see getting paid or getting tons of media attention...they take their cue from them. Eli is the old man in the room...they're not going to relate to him.
The culture does suck, and I think it's because we've hitched our wagon to the wrong kinds of horses. This team is close to completely unraveling. Beckham's comments about the play designs are a sign.
I think there are players in that room who think they're great despite never having been a part of any winning teams in their careers. The receivers go on a boat trip before the playoffs. Beckham and Vernon (neither of whom have been on a team that's done anything) don't come to OTAs. JPP won't talk to the media because he's playing like shit.
These guys are the leaders on the team. They're the ones the young guys see getting paid or getting tons of media attention...they take their cue from them. Eli is the old man in the room...they're not going to relate to him.
The culture does suck, and I think it's because we've hitched our wagon to the wrong kinds of horses. This team is close to completely unraveling. Beckham's comments about the play designs are a sign.
It's been so bad the fucking kicker refused to talk after the Tampa game. The god damn rookie K.
I never saw it as 'make a run or its not worth it'.
On the contrary:
Legions of us, possibly a plurality of us, started out when the team SUCKED. The heroics took place -during- loosing seasons, or -while- loosing games, when the wheels were coming off,
Carsen, Taylor, those guys, made huge plays at those times.
For any current fans OR players who mail it in due to 'its not on this year' ...that shows lack of character.
One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.
Eh...people seem to forget all of the games, almost too numerous to count during TC's tenure, where the doors were completely blown off and they looked totally unprepared to play.
Was that before or after the 200 million dollar spend for free agents during his tenure? Oh, that's right . . .
If we lose a tough, close game to the Chargers at home not only is the season lost but we have to think complete turnover of front office and coaching staff with a new GM coming in. 0 - 5 would be devastating and I think it would mean Mac has lost the team possibly.
However, if we win 3 straight going into the bye week you have to hope for a post bye continuance of solid play. 9 - 7 and this team returns with the front office and coaching staff in tact.
I'll be honest, I'm torn whether I want 3 - 4 or 0 -7 simply because I'm done with Reese and his drafts. Last year our schedule wasn't too hard and we flourished and won close games. This year specials and no pass rush plus avg OL play have cost us dearly with 2 close losses.
As a fan though, 3 - 4 please. 2 - 5 doesn't do anything for me.
Hope? Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use in football. You'd better get used to that idea.
But not very likely at all. Is it out the question that the light could suddenly flick on for some of these guys, the momentum become contagious and suddenly they rip off a win streak and are right back in it?
Sure, its possible, but I see very little reason to EXPECT that.
We could beat SD and Seattle.....I see 2-5 or 1-6.
Hypothetically, if we beat the Chargers we MUST somehow beat Denver to gain momentum. Is it likely in Denver? Nope, not with this OL and that defense but in football, ya just never know.
I think we are 2 - 5 and out of it by the bye week.
It starts with the FO who mis-evaluated our OL and failed to have a plan B. The OL is the cog that is bringing this whole teams performance down.
Next is the coaching staff. Too many things that just don't make sense. Bad decisions, weird commentary, bad in game decisions, predictable play calling, and so on.
Next is the players. Too many guys that are expected to be top performers and leaders and nobody is pulling their weight. Not one guy. Not Eli. Not JPP. Not OBJ. Not Vernon or snacks or Collins or Marshall or anyone else.
The lockerroom chemistry coming in was great. A lot of guys that seemed to get along well and seemed to pull for each other. It seems fractured now, but 0-4 will do that to any lockerroom. The problem starts at the top.
If the the team totally tanks and loses 12 to 15 games, which I think is possible, then it should usher in a new era.
It would go something like this - ownership cleans out the front office and the coaching staff, and starts over.
They'd have a very high draft position, and very probably some comp picks, too, so a new GM and draft staff needs to be in place to make better use of them.
That's the only realistic hope left or this season because they aren't making the playoffs with this shit show.
Guys not talking to the media doesn't mean shit. It doesn't mean they lack anything. It doesn't mean a damn thing.
I don't care about the kicker, DE or anybody talking to the media. They don't want to? What's the problem? They pay their fine and move on. It means nothing.
even 9-7 means we have to finish the season going 9-3.
Does anyone think we are going to win 9 of our last 12 games?
And 9-7 would still be a long shot for a wild card
I'm talking 3 or 4 in a row, to get us back to .500 or one game from it.
That's the only way, and it's not looking likely.
One more loss or two more losses, the players will undoubtedly pack it in.
The 2017 Giants do not appear to be made of the same things as the 2016 Giants. That falls to coaching and getting this team to wake up. Press clippings and accolades a winning formula does not create. It's just words on paper. The team needs to re-engage its effort on the field.
Let's see if they can right the ship and win 7-8 games somehow.
One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.
It is a real long shot - only the 92 chargers made the playoffs in the modern era after starting 0-4.
And i'm usually bullish about the Giants seasons. For some reason - record notwithstanding - this team just doesn't have it.
I've played in games where the team doesn't seem to want to even tackle opposing players. You can see a lack of effort and drive - but more importantly, you can feel it on the field and on the sideline. With this team, I can see it and feel it by watching television and replays. Lack of effort, lack of cohesion, terrible effort in tackling and engagement, slow, lackluster and lazy. It's all right there. This team is done.
I really think that our offense was paying so poorly in the first 2 weeks, because they had barely played together as a whole in the preseason. As much as we hate it, preseason does have some value.
We are now moving the ball, however, our defense is really struggling at this point. Can't stop the run and get off the field when needed.
One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.
Eh...people seem to forget all of the games, almost too numerous to count during TC's tenure, where the doors were completely blown off and they looked totally unprepared to play.
Any sliver of Hope will be gone if they shit the bed this weekend.
We'll be lucky if the season doesn't implode.
we lose this and go 0-5 then it is over
but everyone forgets last year that we were 2-4 after 6 weeks
our defense didn't turn on until week 8 against the Rams
If our defense can click and get moving we could definitely win 4 in a row
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It's been like this for some time, though. Goes back before Mac. Is it the players we're drafting? We went through that round of drafting 'captains', doesn't seem like it did anything. Changed up the coaching staff (although not a full change by any stretch). We got one season of improvement and back in the dumps.
What the hell is going on?
However, the fact that its happened in consecutive weeks, to start the season, it looks SO much worse. I still think this is a good team, and we have a bunch of guys who are not that old and have been above average players in this league as recently as last season.
If this team starts getting a few breaks, wins this weekend and 1 of the next 2 vs Den and Sea, I will be back on board. They would need to follow that up by winning the next 2 games after the bye as well and getting to 4-5.
The Eagles are in front but i don't seem them as a team with so much talent or well coached that they will break away from the pack. The Cowboys, much like us, seem to have come back down to earth after last year. The Redskins, as always, run hot and cold from week to week. You have to hope the other teams are no better than mediocre and have a couple of losing streaks all while we have to rattle off a few wins in a row. I don't think it is such a long shot but you have to wonder that even IF they win the division and make the playoffs are the Giants talented and well coached enough to make a Coughlin type run. I don't think so and at this point I think having a respectable record this year could be detrimental to the team in the long run. Meaning, there would be no change in GM, talent evaluation or other front office areas of need and we could even see the same poor effort poured into perennially bad positions, i.e. Offensive line, LB , RB. So not sure how to root for the team at this point.
These guys are the leaders on the team. They're the ones the young guys see getting paid or getting tons of media attention...they take their cue from them. Eli is the old man in the room...they're not going to relate to him.
The culture does suck, and I think it's because we've hitched our wagon to the wrong kinds of horses. This team is close to completely unraveling. Beckham's comments about the play designs are a sign.
Young players developing and getting better, serving as a spring board for 2018....definitely. And that's what I am looking for.
Other than Eli - who still looks to be the same player - a lot of this team has youth on its side.
Now youth can be deceiving in football because of 1) the salary cap 2) the injury factor.
These guys are the leaders on the team. They're the ones the young guys see getting paid or getting tons of media attention...they take their cue from them. Eli is the old man in the room...they're not going to relate to him.
The culture does suck, and I think it's because we've hitched our wagon to the wrong kinds of horses. This team is close to completely unraveling. Beckham's comments about the play designs are a sign.
It's been so bad the fucking kicker refused to talk after the Tampa game. The god damn rookie K.
On the contrary:
Legions of us, possibly a plurality of us, started out when the team SUCKED. The heroics took place -during- loosing seasons, or -while- loosing games, when the wheels were coming off,
Carsen, Taylor, those guys, made huge plays at those times.
For any current fans OR players who mail it in due to 'its not on this year' ...that shows lack of character.
we lose this and go 0-5 then it is over
but everyone forgets last year that we were 2-4 after 6 weeks
our defense didn't turn on until week 8 against the Rams
If our defense can click and get moving we could definitely win 4 in a row
Think we were 2-3, with 3 straight loses...but your point about the defense hitting its stride and taking over games is a good one.
Giants can get back into the playoff race....it's extremely hard to be out of the NFL playoff hunt in October, it really is.
Getting in after 0-4, though, is probably not doable.
Are they going to run the ball better, stop the run, rush the passer better, play better special teams...etc...
But to say there is no hope is just another case of a fan not being able to get past what they seen most recently.
They have no vision of it getting better, even though this has happened time and again in sports.
Yes there is hope, win Sunday, and see if that gets some positive momentum and better play going.
Young players developing and getting better, serving as a spring board for 2018....definitely. And that's what I am looking for.
Other than Eli - who still looks to be the same player - a lot of this team has youth on its side.
Now youth can be deceiving in football because of 1) the salary cap 2) the injury factor.
This is the 6th youngest roster in football. If the culture sucks now it's likely going to persist for a while.
Maybe that's true, but isn't it also incumbent on the players to act like pros? If a player needs to be babysat, why would we want that player?
I want the head coach to be working on game plans, not reminding the players not to get celebration penalties.
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..playoffs? Most likely not.
Young players developing and getting better, serving as a spring board for 2018....definitely. And that's what I am looking for.
Other than Eli - who still looks to be the same player - a lot of this team has youth on its side.
Now youth can be deceiving in football because of 1) the salary cap 2) the injury factor.
This is the 6th youngest roster in football. If the culture sucks now it's likely going to persist for a while.
But it was excellent last year, so how do you account for that?
I think saying the Giants, with this cast, will have a negative cast going forward is just being very pessimistic.
We seem teams turn it around from year to year in the NFL, so I'm not buying it.
I'd rather have a young base than an older base.......
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We have a poor culture, IMO, in the lockerroom.
One of the things I often think gets overlooked about Tom Coughlin, he came in and completely changed the culture of the team, after it having nearly a decade of poor culture.
Eh...people seem to forget all of the games, almost too numerous to count during TC's tenure, where the doors were completely blown off and they looked totally unprepared to play.
However, if we win 3 straight going into the bye week you have to hope for a post bye continuance of solid play. 9 - 7 and this team returns with the front office and coaching staff in tact.
I'll be honest, I'm torn whether I want 3 - 4 or 0 -7 simply because I'm done with Reese and his drafts. Last year our schedule wasn't too hard and we flourished and won close games. This year specials and no pass rush plus avg OL play have cost us dearly with 2 close losses.
As a fan though, 3 - 4 please. 2 - 5 doesn't do anything for me.
Sure, its possible, but I see very little reason to EXPECT that.
We could beat SD and Seattle.....I see 2-5 or 1-6.
We could beat SD and Seattle.....I see 2-5 or 1-6.
I think we are 2 - 5 and out of it by the bye week.
Next is the coaching staff. Too many things that just don't make sense. Bad decisions, weird commentary, bad in game decisions, predictable play calling, and so on.
Next is the players. Too many guys that are expected to be top performers and leaders and nobody is pulling their weight. Not one guy. Not Eli. Not JPP. Not OBJ. Not Vernon or snacks or Collins or Marshall or anyone else.
The lockerroom chemistry coming in was great. A lot of guys that seemed to get along well and seemed to pull for each other. It seems fractured now, but 0-4 will do that to any lockerroom. The problem starts at the top.
It would go something like this - ownership cleans out the front office and the coaching staff, and starts over.
They'd have a very high draft position, and very probably some comp picks, too, so a new GM and draft staff needs to be in place to make better use of them.
That's the only realistic hope left or this season because they aren't making the playoffs with this shit show.
We need a big help from the Cards this week. If we get it they have CAR the next week. They could be 3-3.
Cowboys could be 3-3. They have Packets and 49ers next.
WAS - bye and 49ers. That's 3-2.
Can we get to 2-4?
If NYG can we have a shot over the last 10 to make up the 1.5 games on WAS.
This was I'm hoping for.
The culture last year was ok but not this season? That's nonsense.
A team losses and guys complain and chirp. That's all we have here. That and a shitty OL. But that ain't culture.
I don't care about the kicker, DE or anybody talking to the media. They don't want to? What's the problem? They pay their fine and move on. It means nothing.