Nice bounce back games since Friday.
Was very emotional at the post game presser last night. I hope he's back. I think he does a great job 90% of the time and I don't think he's fully appreciated here.
All managers can have bad games and make a bad decision. Often, that is decided by whether the players execute. Chad Green pitches lights out...Girardi's a genius. Chad Green doesn't have it...Girardi's an idiot. I ask anybody that thinks the Yanks would be better off without him: Who are you getting to replace him that is better? If the Yanks decided to move on from Girardi, his phone would be blowing up with job offers immediately. Be careful what you wish for.
Maybe he would have felt more pressure and that he was letting his team down? maybe other guys who have slumps ( all of them) would have noticed and started pressing even more the first time they went 1 for 10?
Green is a rookie called up at the end of May? Unproven at first so spots where he had less pressure and an opinion about his major league makeup could be formed made sense at the time?
There is no perfect player or manager. Ever.
He is far from perfect.
But those who want him replaced have to do two things:
1) Make a fact based comparative case that his record over time is indeed inferior to playoff winning managers?
2) Name some one proven to be likely better right now who is available?
I think Girardi is a good manager who has not had his best season.
It happens. Lots of change and flux, but still got them to 91 wins with a chance to win the division in the last weekend of the season. And to be fair, if the bullpen didn't lead the league in blown saves we might be talking about what great 100 win, divison winning season it was. Chapman alone blew 2 against Boston that would have tied the AL east. They had 23 on the season as a group.
and that's the only way he won't be back, the Steinbrenners are big on Thompson , who is an analytics geek with a considerable run as bench coach. Hey, Joe Maddon started under Scioscia .
If the Yankees lose Wed night, Girardi's poor decision will be long remembered . The most rabid of fans will blame him for losing the series. Not fair, at all. But it comes with the territory . I didn't like him putting Torreyes into that game late, either . Especially at third . He is the worst glove the Yankees have had at the hot corner since Rich McKinney . Yeah Frazier had two screw ups earlier but both he and Headley would have kept that ball on the skin, giving you at least a chance to survive the inning. And getting picked off as a pinch-runner? I've coached baseball for years. Inserting a runner who then gets picked off a base would give me the dry heaves .
He's been a good manager. I hope he leaves. Takes a couple years off, then comes back fresh for someone else. Maybe the Cubs.
that's perhaps the hardest decision a manager has to make-- when you have a pitcher that is performing well though you know he is prone to fall apart near that stage in the game with a completely loaded bullpen.
It's a decision that gets graded in hindsight. I haven't looked at the data, but I'm sure it's not pretty when you look at CC's performances over the last season or three when he faces batters for the 3rd time (I'm not sure where he was in the lineup when he was pulled).
Yeah, he was retiring batter after batter along for a handful of innings (outside the first where he was getting hit hard), but how much trust do you put into that without considering where he was at his pitch count?
The Yankees bullpen, on the other hand, has been phenomenal and has enough arms to handle th game the rest of the way.
He could have let CC in given the lead they had, but I can't knock him for the decision that i"m not even sure was wrong.
I do have a bias towards going deep as posible with the starter. He only threw 77 pitches and the bullpen was a little gassed because of the WC game.
Whatever, the main thing is they live to fight another day, Sevi gave them length last night, and the bullpen should be well rested for Game 5.
with letting a starter who is rolling continue to roll until he shows signs of losing it, because you never know how the reliever will come out. But with the quality of this bullpen and my lack of faith in CC that late in the game at this point in his career, I understand the decision either way.
The end result whether CC was in or a reliever was brought in should not have been a 4-run inning.
I actually think that Girardi has had a great year.
Certainly, some of his in-game choices can be questioned. But he LED this team of kids to a phenomenal season, far surpassing what anyone, from Cashman to Hal to any of us, could have expected. And, imo, leadership, and developing a team with resilience, confidence AND RESULTS, should be the greatest measure of his performance this year.
True throughout.He's human. We all make mistakes, some of which are large. But much of what he's done has been for the better. That's not a small part of how they got here and why they're still in it.
How could anyone claim that he didn't take responsibility?
"I take responsibility for everything, and I feel horrible about it," he said, according to MLB.com's Bryan Hoch. "I screwed up. It's hard. It's a hard day for me. But I've got to move forward and we'll be ready to go tomorrow."
As far as criticizing taking CC out, I think we have some frontrunners here. It's exactly the way he managed all year. This time it didn't work, but usually it has.
Finally, the team has done better than practically anyone envisioned. Does Girardi get any credit for that? The deep slump when Chapman, Betances and Judge all stopped being effective at once created an illusion that somehow Girardi became a bad manager.
to the Red Sox. The Sox won the division with 1 pitcher. The Yankees had 4. The Sox had one reliable arm in the bullpen. The Yankees 2017 bullpen might be the best ever assembled. The Yankees had 3 starters with career years and many others who had better than average years, the Sox had one, Benitendi who was their #4 hitter and he didn't break 90rbi, the rest of their starters are all down from their career averages. For all that, their WS winning manager is out of a job today. That's the standard. Joe's a nice guy and easy to root for but to say he overachieved is delusional.
to the Red Sox. The Sox won the division with 1 pitcher. The Yankees had 4. The Sox had one reliable arm in the bullpen. The Yankees 2017 bullpen might be the best ever assembled. The Yankees had 3 starters with career years and many others who had better than average years, the Sox had one, Benitendi who was their #4 hitter and he didn't break 90rbi, the rest of their starters are all down from their career averages. For all that, their WS winning manager is out of a job today. That's the standard. Joe's a nice guy and easy to root for but to say he overachieved is delusional.
GentleGiant, I would like to remind you that going into the season, here were the win projections from Vegas, from Fangraphs, and from PECOTA (Baseball Prospectus), compared with actual results.
Quote:
Team......Vegas....Fngrphs...BP...Actual
Red Sox...92.5......91..........90......93
Yankees...82.5......81..........82......91
I would take Girardi in a heartbeat as manager. Yes he screwed up on Friday, get over it. I think some Yankee fans are WAY spoiled and don't appreciate a good manager when you have one.
There were and are people here that destroyed Torre on a regular basis. Granted he left some things to be desired over the last 5 or so seasons here with the Yanks but the guy won four WS titles. FOUR! The night the Yanks beat the Phillies or Angels in 2009 people were killing Torre then too. I thought it rather odd and maybe even a bit terrible that fans would revert to hating on a former mgr during an otherwise glorious night but then I remembered NYG fans crushing Tiki Barber at the super bowl 42 parade. Fans like to boo and bitch.
better than Fister. The fact is that the Red Sox won the division just by beating the teams that were worse than them. The Yankees blew a lot of winnable games this year, and that's on Girardi.
but does anyone here honestly believe that Girardi was told by numerous people the bat hit the ball? Seriously? And Girardi just ignored everyone? Why? Because of binders? BEcause he just wanted to be a dick?
His replay guy fucked up. It's as clear as day. You can see the confusion and concern on Girardi's face as he eschewed the replay option. He wasn't sure. If he was sure or was told by someone that it looked like a bat tip he would have challenged. Doesn't that theory make a lot more sense than Girardi just ignoring all the tell tale signs? It does to me...
but does anyone here honestly believe that Girardi was told by numerous people the bat hit the ball? Seriously? And Girardi just ignored everyone? Why? Because of binders? BEcause he just wanted to be a dick?
His replay guy fucked up. It's as clear as day. You can see the confusion and concern on Girardi's face as he eschewed the replay option. He wasn't sure. If he was sure or was told by someone that it looked like a bat tip he would have challenged. Doesn't that theory make a lot more sense than Girardi just ignoring all the tell tale signs? It does to me...
His catcher told him to review it.
A team that was considered too young to contend this year
but does anyone here honestly believe that Girardi was told by numerous people the bat hit the ball?
I know Sanchez told him. Rather emphatically, actually. He should have showed some faith in his catcher there, particularly because baseball isn't football - there's no penalty for a failed challenge. He had nothing to lose.
Also, though there's no need to rehash everything again, Yankee fans had very good reasons to be extremely frustrated with late-stage Joe Torre. His blundering in the 2003 and 2004 postseasons was egregious and devastating.
to the Red Sox. The Sox won the division with 1 pitcher. The Yankees had 4. The Sox had one reliable arm in the bullpen. The Yankees 2017 bullpen might be the best ever assembled. The Yankees had 3 starters with career years and many others who had better than average years, the Sox had one, Benitendi who was their #4 hitter and he didn't break 90rbi, the rest of their starters are all down from their career averages. For all that, their WS winning manager is out of a job today. That's the standard. Joe's a nice guy and easy to root for but to say he overachieved is delusional.
GentleGiant, I would like to remind you that going into the season, here were the win projections from Vegas, from Fangraphs, and from PECOTA (Baseball Prospectus), compared with actual results.
Quote:
Team......Vegas....Fngrphs...BP...Actual
Red Sox...92.5......91..........90......93
Yankees...82.5......81..........82......91
Interesting. The Sox underachieved across the board on an individual basis and still matched their prediction. I can't imagine the Yankees matching their preseason prediction if just Aaron Judge had an average year. The hr bailed out Joe's incompetence out all season long. In fact, before game 4 the Yankees only had 1 rbi not via the HR in this series.
Every year I watch the playoffs and the most successful teams manufacture runs when necessary, mostly because playoff pitchers are playoff pitchers because they are stingy with runners on base. Joe never did it during the season and now his players are rusty when the opportunity arises - see Torreyes straying too far off the bag in the pivotal game 2. He never uses the hit and run, his players never hit behind the runner with 2 strikes and he never even starts a runner to keep out of the dp. He's unprepared, even though he used this tool efficiently in his 2009 run and watched Torre do it during the dynasty years.
I guess he's the smart one because no one ever second guesses the manager when the team doesn't plate the lead off double with a hit but woe betide the manager who gives up an out via the bunt and doesn't get the run in.
RE: A team that was considered too young to contend this year
is one win away from knocking off the best team in the American League and advancing to the ALCS.
But, sure, get rid of the bum who managed them to this point (and possibly beyond).
Wasn't that the Mets two years ago? It all came together for the Yankees this year. This may be their only shot. I'll bet Cashman is kicking himself right now for not going after Verlander harder.
I've liked him as a manger since he was in Florida.
Baseball fans love to bitch and complain about mangers. Girardi had a very forgettable night during game 2. As bad as it gets for a manager. But I'm pretty sure that's a mistake he'll never make again.
The 180 people have done in a 3-4 day span has been entertaining.... but it's postseason baseball, I supposed emotions run wild this time of year.
Girardi has his strengths and weaknesses like anyone else
He's a pretty steady presence. Players generally seem to like him. He isn't nearly as resistant to working youngsters into the lineup as, say, Joe Torre was. Over the course of his Yankee tenure, he's done a nice job of juggling relievers to prevent anyone from getting burned out.
On the other hand, he's no tactician. His bullpen usage this year was a step back from the past, notably his reluctance to stop using pitchers who were clearly struggling. His loyalty to first Clippard and then Betances/Chapman cost them several games.
I've liked him as a manger since he was in Florida.
Baseball fans love to bitch and complain about mangers. Girardi had a very forgettable night during game 2. As bad as it gets for a manager. But I'm pretty sure that's a mistake he'll never make again.
The 180 people have done in a 3-4 day span has been entertaining.... but it's postseason baseball, I supposed emotions run wild this time of year.
I assure you, that night is the absolute polar opposite of "forgettable."
Well, I'm sure it's a night Joe would prefer to forget...
Alas, my point remains, I think the good outweighs the bad with him. Any manager who is around a few years will wind up with fans criticizing him. It's just the nature of the game - it's rife with second guessing and hindsight.
You could certainly do much worse.
The biggest takeaway I had from his mistakes in game 2
was that it seemed he wasn't trusting his players. CC was rolling, but Girardi pulled him to folow his pregame plan. Sanchez was the only Yankee who was in position to see that ball hit the knob of the bat. Yet, even as a former catcher, Girardi ignored him.
I was afraid he would start to lose the clubhouse going into games 3 & 4. If that happened, there would need to be a real disscussion of whether he was the right guy moving forward. BUT, the team rallied for him and picked him up after a bad game.
Girardi is still a top tier manager IMO. He can be too analytical at times and rely too much on his binder. But as long as he still had the support of his players he can still learn from his mistakes and continue to call better games.
The next 5 years or more have the potential to be big for the Yanks. We know what we have in Joe. As long as the players still have his back there is no reason to remove him. Its a big risk to move to an unknown at this point.
out LOB. 26 more than any other team in baseball. The Yankees played 44 one run games this year and lost the division by 2 games. Girardi never even made an attempt to correct this glaring deficiency. To this day players are still swinging from their heels with 0 outs, 2 strikes and runners in scoring position. That's not winning baseball. That will never change unless Girardi does and I don't think he is capable of it at this point in his career.
leave it off. "Left on base" is a misleading statistic. You put a lot of guys on base and you'll leave a lot of guys on base.
The Yankees left the most guys on base. The top 5 teams in baseball in LOB all made the playoffs (Yankees, Indians, Red Sox, Twins, Cubs). Houston was 8th in guys left on base.
Last year, the Cubs led MLB in guys left on base.
You saw the Yankees strand a lot of runners because you watched a very good offense all season long.
Pointing to 1-run games is also meaningless as it's a crapshoot as well. In 2012, everyone fellated the Orioles for how historic they were in 1-run games (22-9). In 2013, with a very similar roster they were 20-31 in such games.
The Yankees were 2nd in stranding RISP behind the Indians. The top 6 teams in this all made the postseason. Put a lot of guys on base, strand a lot of guys on base.
The Yankees stranded 3.69 RISP per game. The Astros stranded 3.38.
The Yankees were 25th in batting average with RISP and 2 outs. No doubt it was something they struggled with.
But when you constantly put guys in scoring position, you don't have to be as efficient as other teams. You can't have it all with an offense.
The Yankees were 2nd in stranding RISP behind the Indians. The top 6 teams in this all made the postseason. Put a lot of guys on base, strand a lot of guys on base.
The Yankees stranded 3.69 RISP per game. The Astros stranded 3.38.
The Yankees were 25th in batting average with RISP and 2 outs. No doubt it was something they struggled with.
But when you constantly put guys in scoring position, you don't have to be as efficient as other teams. You can't have it all with an offense.
It's interesting what we find to complain about. Guess it would be better if we had no runners to strand?
As a fan, it's clearly frustrating to have so many RISP. These are emotionally draining and very memorable experiences, so we hang onto them and turn resentful toward the club for not being able to convert. The alternative of producing more often would be less memorable as it becomes the norm.
what I've seen with my eyes for Girardi's entire career - sitting on his hands waiting for the 3 run hr. If you haven't been frustrated with the Yankees lacking ability to get runs in from scoring position with less than 2 outs then you just having been watching. The Yankees are young, fast and versatile yet Girardi refuses to make them more dynamic. It's not like they have to sacrifice one for the other. Girardi of all people should know that great slugging teams almost invariable go home early in the post season.
that is NOT on the top of the LOB list this year is done and waiting for the ALCS. I don't understand when it became a rule that teams that can get runners on base at high rate have to be one-dimensional.
because this conversation is opening that locked door in your brain where you store all the memories of Derek Jeter's failed bunt attempts. I saw the hottest hitter in baseball and probable AL MVP unsuccessfully bunt for a hit the other night. It's a big part of winning baseball if for nothing else but to keep the defense guessing.
12th in stolen bases, 5th in base-running score, and 2nd in sac flies.
You are harping on one issue the Yanks have had (hitting with RISP and ignoring everything else.
It's also ridiculous that you are complaining that the Yankees offense isn't as good as the best offense in baseball-- a team that was projected to have a better offense than the Yankees even before the season started.
Are you in favor of trading Aaron Judge? I ask this facetiously, because he is the epitome of everything you are complaining about with this Yankees team. In these 2-out, RISP situations, he has a terrible batting average, a lot of strikeouts and saved only by a good number of home runs. Even worse, he doesn't try to bunt for hits.
not only are the Astros the #1 offense in baseball this year
They are *historically great*. Team OPS+ of 127? That's nuts. The best of the Yankee dynasty teams were 117 (1998). You have to go back to the Babe Ruth teams to find a Yankee lineup that was as statistically impressive as the 2017 Astros.
There is enough data now to prove it. That's why teams don't do it.
The Yankees had the bunt play on in game two, with nobody out and Torreyes on 2nd. How'd that work out for them. Torreyes was thrown out, but hey, at least they didn't leave any men on base!
Man on second, nobody out in a walkoff situation. Gets the runner to third with less than two outs. Otherwise, unless you have a complete zero at the plate, it's a mistake.
Man on second, nobody out in a walkoff situation. Gets the runner to third with less than two outs. Otherwise, unless you have a complete zero at the plate, it's a mistake.
I'd still rather have Gardy swing the bat there. Pull the ball to the right side and who knows, maybe it gets through. I absolutely hate giving up an out, especially with a team that strikes out as much as this one.
Not saying you're wrong, and not second guessing their decision, it's just my preference
There is enough data now to prove it. That's why teams don't do it.
The Yankees had the bunt play on in game two, with nobody out and Torreyes on 2nd. How'd that work out for them. Torreyes was thrown out, but hey, at least they didn't leave any men on base!
I already addressed Torreyes upthread, but feel free to ignore it. It's the laziest move in sports to knock a failed sacrifice bunt but flash back to the bottom of the 6th inning on Sunday night in a 0-0 game. Hicks leads off with a walk, Gardner up with Judge and Sanchez to follow - doesn't bunt (probably because of the failed bunt attempt of Friday), but grounds into double play. Immediately following - Judge walk and Sanchez single - the run would have scored. I assume I was the only person in the tristate area cursing Girardi for not bunting Gardner. Bird bails Joe out an inning later so I guess all is well - as long as the hrs keep coming- but playoff history says they won't.
RE: I actually think that Girardi has had a great year.
Certainly, some of his in-game choices can be questioned. But he LED this team of kids to a phenomenal season, far surpassing what anyone, from Cashman to Hal to any of us, could have expected. And, imo, leadership, and developing a team with resilience, confidence AND RESULTS, should be the greatest measure of his performance this year.
I think that the success this season has obscured what we have all seen over the past several years. Girardi is overly reliant on his binder and has little to no feel for the flow of the game- that manifestly showed in his removal of CC in game 2.
Girardi also does not seem to grasp strategy or nuances well either. If it isn't in the binder, it isn't in his head.
Finally, his handling of young pitchers- especially young relievers- is terrible.
I think that Girardi is in the same situation as Buck Showalter was before Torre- he was the manager that the team needed at the time- but as the team changes- the need for a new manager was apparent. I think Girardi was just the manager that the Yanks needed in their vets years- but as the team transitions to young players, a more instinctive approach to the game- as well as use of strategy is necessary- both BIG weaknesses of Girardi.
Want some possible replacements? Don Wakamatsu would be at the top of my list.
RE: RE: Bunting is typically the worst play in baseball
There is enough data now to prove it. That's why teams don't do it.
The Yankees had the bunt play on in game two, with nobody out and Torreyes on 2nd. How'd that work out for them. Torreyes was thrown out, but hey, at least they didn't leave any men on base!
I already addressed Torreyes upthread, but feel free to ignore it. It's the laziest move in sports to knock a failed sacrifice bunt but flash back to the bottom of the 6th inning on Sunday night in a 0-0 game. Hicks leads off with a walk, Gardner up with Judge and Sanchez to follow - doesn't bunt (probably because of the failed bunt attempt of Friday), but grounds into double play. Immediately following - Judge walk and Sanchez single - the run would have scored. I assume I was the only person in the tristate area cursing Girardi for not bunting Gardner. Bird bails Joe out an inning later so I guess all is well - as long as the hrs keep coming- but playoff history says they won't.
Actually, the laziest thing in all of sports is to assume that everything would have played out exactly the same way if rewound and put in another position. So if Gardner successfully bunts Hicks over, and assuming success is another issue all together btw, assuming that the next two batters play out the exact same way is asinine. You don't know how it would have played out.
The Yankees have failed a million times this season trying to play the "bunt em over" game. Friday was just example number one million. With this lineup, you simply don't give up outs in the 6th inning.
of hard data showing that man on 1st with no outs yields more overall runs and increases the likelihood of scoring a single run over a man on second with one out, you're still complaining that it was a failure for Gardner to not bunt?
Green is a rookie called up at the end of May? Unproven at first so spots where he had less pressure and an opinion about his major league makeup could be formed made sense at the time?
There is no perfect player or manager. Ever.
He is far from perfect.
But those who want him replaced have to do two things:
1) Make a fact based comparative case that his record over time is indeed inferior to playoff winning managers?
2) Name some one proven to be likely better right now who is available?
If the Yankees lose Wed night, Girardi's poor decision will be long remembered . The most rabid of fans will blame him for losing the series. Not fair, at all. But it comes with the territory . I didn't like him putting Torreyes into that game late, either . Especially at third . He is the worst glove the Yankees have had at the hot corner since Rich McKinney . Yeah Frazier had two screw ups earlier but both he and Headley would have kept that ball on the skin, giving you at least a chance to survive the inning. And getting picked off as a pinch-runner? I've coached baseball for years. Inserting a runner who then gets picked off a base would give me the dry heaves .
He's been a good manager. I hope he leaves. Takes a couple years off, then comes back fresh for someone else. Maybe the Cubs.
It's a decision that gets graded in hindsight. I haven't looked at the data, but I'm sure it's not pretty when you look at CC's performances over the last season or three when he faces batters for the 3rd time (I'm not sure where he was in the lineup when he was pulled).
Yeah, he was retiring batter after batter along for a handful of innings (outside the first where he was getting hit hard), but how much trust do you put into that without considering where he was at his pitch count?
The Yankees bullpen, on the other hand, has been phenomenal and has enough arms to handle th game the rest of the way.
He could have let CC in given the lead they had, but I can't knock him for the decision that i"m not even sure was wrong.
I do have a bias towards going deep as posible with the starter. He only threw 77 pitches and the bullpen was a little gassed because of the WC game.
Whatever, the main thing is they live to fight another day, Sevi gave them length last night, and the bullpen should be well rested for Game 5.
The end result whether CC was in or a reliever was brought in should not have been a 4-run inning.
All the rest are understandable. . . .
As far as criticizing taking CC out, I think we have some frontrunners here. It's exactly the way he managed all year. This time it didn't work, but usually it has.
Finally, the team has done better than practically anyone envisioned. Does Girardi get any credit for that? The deep slump when Chapman, Betances and Judge all stopped being effective at once created an illusion that somehow Girardi became a bad manager.
GentleGiant, I would like to remind you that going into the season, here were the win projections from Vegas, from Fangraphs, and from PECOTA (Baseball Prospectus), compared with actual results.
Team......Vegas....Fngrphs...BP...Actual
Red Sox...92.5......91..........90......93
Yankees...82.5......81..........82......91
Source: https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/3/30/15115578/mlb-over-under-bet-2017
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/215591304/mlb-pecota-projections-2017-breakdown
There were and are people here that destroyed Torre on a regular basis. Granted he left some things to be desired over the last 5 or so seasons here with the Yanks but the guy won four WS titles. FOUR! The night the Yanks beat the Phillies or Angels in 2009 people were killing Torre then too. I thought it rather odd and maybe even a bit terrible that fans would revert to hating on a former mgr during an otherwise glorious night but then I remembered NYG fans crushing Tiki Barber at the super bowl 42 parade. Fans like to boo and bitch.
His replay guy fucked up. It's as clear as day. You can see the confusion and concern on Girardi's face as he eschewed the replay option. He wasn't sure. If he was sure or was told by someone that it looked like a bat tip he would have challenged. Doesn't that theory make a lot more sense than Girardi just ignoring all the tell tale signs? It does to me...
His replay guy fucked up. It's as clear as day. You can see the confusion and concern on Girardi's face as he eschewed the replay option. He wasn't sure. If he was sure or was told by someone that it looked like a bat tip he would have challenged. Doesn't that theory make a lot more sense than Girardi just ignoring all the tell tale signs? It does to me...
But, sure, get rid of the bum who managed them to this point (and possibly beyond).
I know Sanchez told him. Rather emphatically, actually. He should have showed some faith in his catcher there, particularly because baseball isn't football - there's no penalty for a failed challenge. He had nothing to lose.
Also, though there's no need to rehash everything again, Yankee fans had very good reasons to be extremely frustrated with late-stage Joe Torre. His blundering in the 2003 and 2004 postseasons was egregious and devastating.
Quote:
to the Red Sox. The Sox won the division with 1 pitcher. The Yankees had 4. The Sox had one reliable arm in the bullpen. The Yankees 2017 bullpen might be the best ever assembled. The Yankees had 3 starters with career years and many others who had better than average years, the Sox had one, Benitendi who was their #4 hitter and he didn't break 90rbi, the rest of their starters are all down from their career averages. For all that, their WS winning manager is out of a job today. That's the standard. Joe's a nice guy and easy to root for but to say he overachieved is delusional.
GentleGiant, I would like to remind you that going into the season, here were the win projections from Vegas, from Fangraphs, and from PECOTA (Baseball Prospectus), compared with actual results.
Quote:
Team......Vegas....Fngrphs...BP...Actual
Red Sox...92.5......91..........90......93
Yankees...82.5......81..........82......91
Source: https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/3/30/15115578/mlb-over-under-bet-2017
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/215591304/mlb-pecota-projections-2017-breakdown
Interesting. The Sox underachieved across the board on an individual basis and still matched their prediction. I can't imagine the Yankees matching their preseason prediction if just Aaron Judge had an average year. The hr bailed out Joe's incompetence out all season long. In fact, before game 4 the Yankees only had 1 rbi not via the HR in this series.
Every year I watch the playoffs and the most successful teams manufacture runs when necessary, mostly because playoff pitchers are playoff pitchers because they are stingy with runners on base. Joe never did it during the season and now his players are rusty when the opportunity arises - see Torreyes straying too far off the bag in the pivotal game 2. He never uses the hit and run, his players never hit behind the runner with 2 strikes and he never even starts a runner to keep out of the dp. He's unprepared, even though he used this tool efficiently in his 2009 run and watched Torre do it during the dynasty years.
I guess he's the smart one because no one ever second guesses the manager when the team doesn't plate the lead off double with a hit but woe betide the manager who gives up an out via the bunt and doesn't get the run in.
But, sure, get rid of the bum who managed them to this point (and possibly beyond).
Wasn't that the Mets two years ago? It all came together for the Yankees this year. This may be their only shot. I'll bet Cashman is kicking himself right now for not going after Verlander harder.
I've liked him as a manger since he was in Florida.
Baseball fans love to bitch and complain about mangers. Girardi had a very forgettable night during game 2. As bad as it gets for a manager. But I'm pretty sure that's a mistake he'll never make again.
The 180 people have done in a 3-4 day span has been entertaining.... but it's postseason baseball, I supposed emotions run wild this time of year.
On the other hand, he's no tactician. His bullpen usage this year was a step back from the past, notably his reluctance to stop using pitchers who were clearly struggling. His loyalty to first Clippard and then Betances/Chapman cost them several games.
You could definitely do a lot worse.
The last two WS champion managers were big proponents of small ball.
I've liked him as a manger since he was in Florida.
Baseball fans love to bitch and complain about mangers. Girardi had a very forgettable night during game 2. As bad as it gets for a manager. But I'm pretty sure that's a mistake he'll never make again.
The 180 people have done in a 3-4 day span has been entertaining.... but it's postseason baseball, I supposed emotions run wild this time of year.
I assure you, that night is the absolute polar opposite of "forgettable."
Alas, my point remains, I think the good outweighs the bad with him. Any manager who is around a few years will wind up with fans criticizing him. It's just the nature of the game - it's rife with second guessing and hindsight.
You could certainly do much worse.
I was afraid he would start to lose the clubhouse going into games 3 & 4. If that happened, there would need to be a real disscussion of whether he was the right guy moving forward. BUT, the team rallied for him and picked him up after a bad game.
Girardi is still a top tier manager IMO. He can be too analytical at times and rely too much on his binder. But as long as he still had the support of his players he can still learn from his mistakes and continue to call better games.
The next 5 years or more have the potential to be big for the Yanks. We know what we have in Joe. As long as the players still have his back there is no reason to remove him. Its a big risk to move to an unknown at this point.
Baseball is fluky and the postseason is a crap-shoot.
Yes, a team is best built for the postseason, offensively, if they can combine HR power with the ability to produce runs in other ways.
But characterizing the Yankees as a HR-or-bust offense misses the mark.
HRs: 1st (in a HR-heavy park. Astros were 2nd, 241 to 238)
OBP: 3rd
Bating Average: 7th (teams above them were Astros, Rockies, Marlins, Nationals, Indians Braves).
Strikeout%: 18th (low, but not terrible, especially in light of HR powers) The Astros were 2nd in HR with least Ks. Remarkable!
Walk %: 3rd
Sac Flies: 2nd
Hits not from HRs: 15th
Stolen Bases: 12th
Baserunning Score (per FG): 5th
The Yankees left the most guys on base. The top 5 teams in baseball in LOB all made the playoffs (Yankees, Indians, Red Sox, Twins, Cubs). Houston was 8th in guys left on base.
Last year, the Cubs led MLB in guys left on base.
You saw the Yankees strand a lot of runners because you watched a very good offense all season long.
Pointing to 1-run games is also meaningless as it's a crapshoot as well. In 2012, everyone fellated the Orioles for how historic they were in 1-run games (22-9). In 2013, with a very similar roster they were 20-31 in such games.
The Yankees stranded 3.69 RISP per game. The Astros stranded 3.38.
The Yankees were 25th in batting average with RISP and 2 outs. No doubt it was something they struggled with.
But when you constantly put guys in scoring position, you don't have to be as efficient as other teams. You can't have it all with an offense.
You want to trade offenses with them?
The Yankees stranded 3.69 RISP per game. The Astros stranded 3.38.
The Yankees were 25th in batting average with RISP and 2 outs. No doubt it was something they struggled with.
But when you constantly put guys in scoring position, you don't have to be as efficient as other teams. You can't have it all with an offense.
It's interesting what we find to complain about. Guess it would be better if we had no runners to strand?
As a fan, it's clearly frustrating to have so many RISP. These are emotionally draining and very memorable experiences, so we hang onto them and turn resentful toward the club for not being able to convert. The alternative of producing more often would be less memorable as it becomes the norm.
We are strange creatures sometimes.
You are harping on one issue the Yanks have had (hitting with RISP and ignoring everything else.
It's also ridiculous that you are complaining that the Yankees offense isn't as good as the best offense in baseball-- a team that was projected to have a better offense than the Yankees even before the season started.
Are you in favor of trading Aaron Judge? I ask this facetiously, because he is the epitome of everything you are complaining about with this Yankees team. In these 2-out, RISP situations, he has a terrible batting average, a lot of strikeouts and saved only by a good number of home runs. Even worse, he doesn't try to bunt for hits.
The Yankees had the bunt play on in game two, with nobody out and Torreyes on 2nd. How'd that work out for them. Torreyes was thrown out, but hey, at least they didn't leave any men on base!
I'd still rather have Gardy swing the bat there. Pull the ball to the right side and who knows, maybe it gets through. I absolutely hate giving up an out, especially with a team that strikes out as much as this one.
Not saying you're wrong, and not second guessing their decision, it's just my preference
Information from Tom Tango (alias), who has been a consultant for MLB and NHL teams.
http://www.tangotiger.net/re24.html - ( New Window )
In other words, with a number of players who aren't used to bunting, it might not even be a wise strategy even in a walk off situation.
The Yankees had the bunt play on in game two, with nobody out and Torreyes on 2nd. How'd that work out for them. Torreyes was thrown out, but hey, at least they didn't leave any men on base!
I already addressed Torreyes upthread, but feel free to ignore it. It's the laziest move in sports to knock a failed sacrifice bunt but flash back to the bottom of the 6th inning on Sunday night in a 0-0 game. Hicks leads off with a walk, Gardner up with Judge and Sanchez to follow - doesn't bunt (probably because of the failed bunt attempt of Friday), but grounds into double play. Immediately following - Judge walk and Sanchez single - the run would have scored. I assume I was the only person in the tristate area cursing Girardi for not bunting Gardner. Bird bails Joe out an inning later so I guess all is well - as long as the hrs keep coming- but playoff history says they won't.
I think that the success this season has obscured what we have all seen over the past several years. Girardi is overly reliant on his binder and has little to no feel for the flow of the game- that manifestly showed in his removal of CC in game 2.
Girardi also does not seem to grasp strategy or nuances well either. If it isn't in the binder, it isn't in his head.
Finally, his handling of young pitchers- especially young relievers- is terrible.
I think that Girardi is in the same situation as Buck Showalter was before Torre- he was the manager that the team needed at the time- but as the team changes- the need for a new manager was apparent. I think Girardi was just the manager that the Yanks needed in their vets years- but as the team transitions to young players, a more instinctive approach to the game- as well as use of strategy is necessary- both BIG weaknesses of Girardi.
Want some possible replacements? Don Wakamatsu would be at the top of my list.
Quote:
There is enough data now to prove it. That's why teams don't do it.
The Yankees had the bunt play on in game two, with nobody out and Torreyes on 2nd. How'd that work out for them. Torreyes was thrown out, but hey, at least they didn't leave any men on base!
I already addressed Torreyes upthread, but feel free to ignore it. It's the laziest move in sports to knock a failed sacrifice bunt but flash back to the bottom of the 6th inning on Sunday night in a 0-0 game. Hicks leads off with a walk, Gardner up with Judge and Sanchez to follow - doesn't bunt (probably because of the failed bunt attempt of Friday), but grounds into double play. Immediately following - Judge walk and Sanchez single - the run would have scored. I assume I was the only person in the tristate area cursing Girardi for not bunting Gardner. Bird bails Joe out an inning later so I guess all is well - as long as the hrs keep coming- but playoff history says they won't.
Actually, the laziest thing in all of sports is to assume that everything would have played out exactly the same way if rewound and put in another position. So if Gardner successfully bunts Hicks over, and assuming success is another issue all together btw, assuming that the next two batters play out the exact same way is asinine. You don't know how it would have played out.
The Yankees have failed a million times this season trying to play the "bunt em over" game. Friday was just example number one million. With this lineup, you simply don't give up outs in the 6th inning.