"Jerry knows this is on him..

And here we sit 2 years later 0-5. Don't get me wrong it's not all on him the coaching staff is a big factor also, the thing is it's his coaching staff so where does that blame fall?

It.

Needs to go.

but last years play off loss and lack of offensive production should have been a sign that things were not good enough. It wasn't just the TE position or the WR opposite OBJ, it was the running game and the insistence to be in 11 personnel.

The LB unit was not great and they did not bring in the Joker position they have been looking for as recent at last years draft with Floyd.

If Mara wants a good playoff contending team Reese better get a couple of OL and running game and a couple of play makers in in the front 7. Run the ball, stop the run, protect the football and hit the QB. Oh and tackle.

Or at least a playoff team. He can’t coach them too

When they’re getting beat by teams nobody thinks are more talented than the Giants?

Brings in selfish players?

GM is more than scouting talent, it's about building a team that has the right mental makeup as well

A well-deserved sterling reputation as Ernie's draft guru, and two Super Bowl titles on the board in his first five years as GM. I figured we were set for a couple of decades under his steady hand. Now it's circus, and he's as much to blame as anyone.

Will blame the Maras for forcing a coach on him that they fell in love with from a staff of a guy they just fired.

McAdoo will blame Reese for hanging him out to dry and refusing to upgrade the offensive line, which created a ripple effect in terms of injuries and attitude.

Mara will continue to cash the season ticket checks and TV checks and the world will keep going around.

Teams are dismal every year and the fans bitch but keep coming back. That is why this national anthem issue is a big deal. It is the first time that Joe American says "hey maybe I won't watch this".

Ernie's players. Don't forget that.

I m not sure the Giants are more talented than any of the teams they ve played.

It s less painful for fans to blame the coach, that s an easy fix and,
While it s obvious the coach is struggling, to call a team with this offensive line and mediocre core of linebackers talented, is a reach

It worked as far back as Parcells knows ...

It starts w/ a good OL and a good Defense. Don't really need star wide receivers (not saying at all that Beckum was a bad choice and I regret the pick - I don't). Look at who Simms had - Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson - those guys are not going to be in the HOF. Neither is Amani Toomer or Plaxico Buresss .... but they were all at least serviceable (some of them better then the others of course).

Or, star RBs ... Brandon Jacobs was a 4th round pick and Bradshaw was taken in the 7th - but, they had blockers.

I am not sure what direction this team was built from .... some good parts but, at this point they don't seem to fit together and it seems we have a HC who can't manage any of it (them).

In comment 13643637 Carl in CT said:

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Ernie's players. Don't forget that.

Actually Carl, he didn't. Reese was responsible for many of the players that helped the Giants win both super bowls. You could argue the 2nd Super Bowl was even more of Reese's team. That included Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, Bradshaw, Rolle, JPP, among many others. Nicks but the offense on his back during those playoffs. And JPP was a monster down the stretch.

In comment 13643587 montanagiant said:

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And here we sit 2 years later 0-5. Don't get me wrong it's not all on him the coaching staff is a big factor also, the thing is it's his coaching staff so where does that blame fall?

The $200 million spent and the instant success that came with we are finding out now it was nothing more than lipstick on a pig.

It gave short term happiness. But now we are sort of back to where we started again. Only this time, there is not enough money to bail them out again.

In comment 13643613 Rflairr said:

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When they’re getting beat by teams nobody thinks are more talented than the Giants?

Chargers only team they've played that has a losing record.

He did excellent work in both capacities during those years. That's what makes the recent failures so incredible. Did he just lose his eye for talent? More than likely the departure of Gettleman had a lot to do with it. Guys like Chris Mara and Marc Ross are filling the void in the personnel department and they're both abysmal.

as we all know the O line is bad and has been bad for years, but where were these threads before the season started? Many on this board thought this team was playoff/Super Bowl bound! What did he do between then and now that suddenly the talent you all thought was enough to compete for a championship is now enough to get him fired?

Again, not defending him because this team does lack talent across the board. But I am talking specifically to posters that had this team winning 12 games and going deep in the playoffs before the season started.

In comment 13643679 bceagle05 said:

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He did excellent work in both capacities during those years. That's what makes the recent failures so incredible. Did he just lose his eye for talent? More than likely the departure of Gettleman had a lot to do with it. Guys like Chris Mara and Marc Ross are filling the void in the personnel department and they're both abysmal.

If that were true we wouldn't have Beckham or Collins.

The problem is still almost entirely the inability to build an OL. It wasn't for lack of trying, they knew they had to fix the OL and repeatedly went to both FA and the draft to solve the problem, but each time walked away unsuccessful.

but than it was followed up with "Everybody is involved, but I take full responsibility" from Jerry,which made it a special piece of Giants History.

The 200M spent notion is a little silly and misleading. The Giants always spend near or up to the cap, have medium and long-term cap flexibility and were in a position to spend on UFA in large part because of horrible injury luck with their 1st round picks. Remember, JPP was the first Reese 1st rounder to be signed to 2nd contract.

The Giants spent to the cap because they always will and we're positioned well to, based on very good cap management.

Now that doesn't defend if that was spent wisely. Rewind a year ago when the named UFA were All Pros, and it's easy to defend. Fast-forward to this year and can reasonable people defend that an o-lineman was a better investment? Sure.

But the idea the GM spent the money the cap allows, and didn't blow the cap in future years isn't a particularly damning knock.

Also, and not defending Reese's future which should squarely be in jeopardy, but the notion he won with Ernie's player is dopey too. He wasn't an outside hire, he was a big part of Accorsi's team, had a dynamite draft in 07 on his own, and picked a number of the key players who won the 11 ring.

Now does he suck at constructing an o-line.? Clearly. Will it cost him his job? Probably should.

Giving Reese (or anyone) a ton of extra slack based on the two Super Bowls. Those were not dominant teams. Those teams struggled to make the playoffs and went on some magical runs. The straight win/loss record in those and surrounding years were otherwise mediocre, and since then really quite bad.

Magical runs that we'll all remember fondly forever? Absolutely!
Will those players/coaches/FO always deserve a special place in our memories, and some respect? Absolutely.

I don't think the Super Bowl runs alone should be preserving anyone's job 6-7 years later amidst a body of work that is most recently abhorrent. Further, I struggle to believe that independent analysis of the current situation leads to an honest conclusion that Reese is the best person to assemble the team from here forward.

I frequently antagonize the group referred to as "Eli apologists", but I'll admit that it at least isn't crazy to say that Eli is the best QB for this team for the short to intermediate future (though I personally don't think it's a no-brainer).

I can't say the same about Reese.

(Separate topic, but those GM/QB decisions are obviously not entirely independent of one another)

In comment 13643613 Rflairr said:

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When they’re getting beat by teams nobody thinks are more talented than the Giants?

is this a serious question? Are you drunk?

In comment 13643675 jeff57 said:

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In comment 13643613 Rflairr said: Quote: When they’re getting beat by teams nobody thinks are more talented than the Giants? Chargers only team they've played that has a losing record.

LOL, yeah because we're only 4 to 5 games into the season and they all beat the Giants!

Combined record of teams played when NOT facing the Giants this season: 8-11

In comment 13643609 Rflairr said:

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Or at least a playoff team. He can’t coach them too

Come on man. I don't think it's all on Reese, but the dude has had a ton of suspect drafts and couldn't hit on a 3rd rounder or later to save his life.

In comment 13643613 Rflairr said:

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When they’re getting beat by teams nobody thinks are more talented than the Giants?

The Giants are more talented than those teams according to who? The Giants' fans who over-rated their team? Let's break it down...

Offense
Average QB
Amazing #1 WR
Average #2 and #3 WR
Rookie TE with no NFL experience
Worst OL in the league
Possibly one of the worst group of RBs in the league

Defense
One of the best strong safeties in the league
One of the best CBs in the league
One of the best Run stoppers in the league
One of better pass rushers in the league (OV)
Worst group of LBs in the league
The rest are average.

So, we have a couple of top performers at their position but too many that are near the bottom of the league. These are huge weaknesses or holes in the roster that other teams are able to expose despite having a few top players in the league.

In comment 13643750 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13643679 bceagle05 said: Quote: He did excellent work in both capacities during those years. That's what makes the recent failures so incredible. Did he just lose his eye for talent? More than likely the departure of Gettleman had a lot to do with it. Guys like Chris Mara and Marc Ross are filling the void in the personnel department and they're both abysmal. If that were true we wouldn't have Beckham or Collins. The problem is still almost entirely the inability to build an OL. It wasn't for lack of trying, they knew they had to fix the OL and repeatedly went to both FA and the draft to solve the problem, but each time walked away unsuccessful.

The 0-16 Detroit Lions had Megatron.

In comment 13643587 montanagiant said:

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And here we sit 2 years later 0-5. Don't get me wrong it's not all on him the coaching staff is a big factor also, the thing is it's his coaching staff so where does that blame fall?

They didn't hand him $200. Part of his job as GM is to manage the salary cap. He was the one that handed himself the money.

In comment 13644284 aquidneck said:

Quote:

In comment 13643587 montanagiant said: Quote: And here we sit 2 years later 0-5. Don't get me wrong it's not all on him the coaching staff is a big factor also, the thing is it's his coaching staff so where does that blame fall? They didn't hand him $200. Part of his job as GM is to manage the salary cap. He was the one that handed himself the money.

And that changes anything how?

How is Jerry responsible
Rflairr : 5:14 pm : link : reply
When they’re getting beat by teams nobody thinks are more talented than the Giants?

And you have ZERO depth this is called poor drafting/talent evaluation .

And STILL doesn't address OL in the draft over 2 (TWO)subsequent drafts, except for Bis @ 6!!!!

Doesnt hide his love for Conklin and gets futbucked by Titans, and lets others go by for his 'weapons'.

In comment 13643609 Rflairr said:

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Or at least a playoff team. He can’t coach them too

To be fair, the people picking them for the Super Bowl were mostly Giants fans.

We can't put this ALL on Mac. This team was anemic and had a shit OL before he got here.

Coughlin got shown the door and Reese got a pass, now we are supposed to do the same thung? That us the very definition of insanity.

The biggest mark against Reese is the complete inability to construct an even remotely competent Offensive line. That cannot be denied, it's been going on for years. It cost them what could have been a deep run last year, and it was the start of the downward spiral this year. Now it's out of control.

Add to that the string of poor drafts which necessitated a spending spree on defense, and U can't fathom that people are still making excuses for this guy.

It's all the coaching? Again? Really?

In comment 13643637 Carl in CT said:

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Ernie's players. Don't forget that.

This comment is ignorant.

In comment 13645084 djstat said:

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In comment 13643637 Carl in CT said: Quote: Ernie's players. Don't forget that. This comment is ignorant.

No.. giving majority of the credit to a first year GM because he drafted players who were backups in the Superbowl and forgetting that the top 15+ players from that year were brought in before the new GM is ignorant.. 2011 if give full credit to the GM with the exception that he had a HoF QB and HoF Coach who were brought in by the previous manager..

However I do know that while 2007 team was top 3-5 talented team in the league, I can't say the same about 2011 team.. The team was excellently coached and the said HoF QB played his best games repeatedly and pulled wins out of thin air..

Do some people actually believe that a coach or a GM should get the same credit if he wins in his first year vs 4-5th year in job.. Winning in first year implies that previously the team was already well built and ready to win.. winning 4 years after you've joined means you drafted/developed/coached/game planned around the talent/signed right FA and hence you get full credit..

In comment 13643637 Carl in CT said:

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Ernie's players. Don't forget that.

Uh huh. Remember what Ernie's drafts were like before Reese was put in charge of scouting? I do. They were an embarrassing disgrace.

In comment 13645497 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 13643637 Carl in CT said: Quote: Ernie's players. Don't forget that. Uh huh. Remember what Ernie's drafts were like before Reese was put in charge of scouting? I do. They were an embarrassing disgrace.

Reese came to the giants in 94 as a college scout, he became a pro scout in 97, before getting director of player personnel in 04. Accorsi became GM in 98. So when did accorsi pick without having reese with him on the giants?

.

Before that, it was Ernie and Marv Sunderland, and the results were atrocious. Reese was just one of the scouts before being named head of scouting in 2003.

Guy's a great scout but a lousy GM.

so its a tough decision, but he's clearly in over his head at GM and its time for a change. If they can somehow move him into a new role and reward the 20+ years of service - great... if he thinks/wants another chance somewhere else, good luck.

Bottom line business and to have had just 3 division titles in 13 years, and a borderline HOF QB play 200+ games for you but still end up with a worse record than two other teams in your division over that time --- yeah, time to fucking go. There's the door.

If we keep one of them, and then bank our future on Davis Webb and he turns out not to be good, I will be quite upset. Bring in fresh eyes to determine if Webb has potential or if we should draft a QB.

in league the their WRs. Perkins is one of the worst RB in the league but other 3 or average to slightly below average but numbnuts starts off every game with Perkins for his 1 to 2 yard gains.