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Why Did This Game Feel So Different?

arcarsenal : 10/16/2017 12:54 am
Because we ran the football.

We gained 148 yards on the ground and ran for 4.6 yards a clip on the best rushing defense in football.

Coming into tonight, Denver was allowing 2.4 YPA. They had allowed just 203 rush yards in 4 games and 0 rushing TD's.

This is the same defense that made Ezekiel Elliott pretty much quit just 3 weeks ago.

This season could have been much different if we had identified the offensive linemen who could block, the backs who could find holes, and made more of an effort to establish a ground game from jump street. But we didn't. We decided to simply hand jobs to guys who didn't earn them.

No one is going to mistake this line for Dallas or even call them "good" - but it's pretty clear that we went into this season with the wrong configuration.

It's also pretty clear that McAdoo should have given up the playcalling some time ago.

It makes such a massive difference when you can get a few first downs and run the football in this league. Even if you don't score on every drive. Just pushing possession and helping out your defense is a big deal. The way this team was playing early in the season was fucking impossible.

It's too little too late now - but it's tough because I think a lot of us knew this team shouldn't have been 0-5.

Hard to be mad about the Giants winning a football game.. but it's fucking frustrating that we are where we are now.
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Darkwa  
armstead98 : 10/16/2017 1:00 am : link
I started a thread weeks ago saying Darkwa needed to be the guy. I feel like it's been obvious since last season.
Fluker was a beast on a block that sprung open a long gain for Darkwa  
Canton : 10/16/2017 1:01 am : link
.
Fluker didn't earn the job out of camp.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 1:03 am : link
He was bad. The reports were bad. Even Sy agreed with this. And on the opposite side, Hart looked good in camp. It just didn't translate to games.

I'm not sure I agree with that part of the idea. Feel like we're running with an idea that fits just because.
arc...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/16/2017 1:05 am : link
Well said.

Manning only completed 11 passes. We only gained 12 first downs. But it FELT different. That all said, this offense has a long way to go.

The Giants really have botched the OL situation for some time now. It's not only a talent issue, but as folks have pointed out, THE COACHES (unless they were being pressured by the front office) picked the wrong configuration.

They killed the season with the first five losses. Right now, I'm happy they won, but in a way, it feels like another kick to the balls because three of the five losses were games where we had 4th quarter leads. If our OL had been configured better... if Tom Quinn's special teams did have a huge hand in four of the losses... if the defense could have held the lead in three of those losses...

Oh well.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/16/2017 1:06 am : link
correction... ST had role in three of the losses.
What is that phrase that McAdoo loves?  
robbieballs2003 : 10/16/2017 1:07 am : link
Oh, that's right ... complementary football. Hmmm, maybe McAdoo should understand that nothing complements a great defense like sticking with the run game. Nothing complements a passing game like having a commitment to the run to slow down the pass rush and increase the likelihood that playaction will work.
I need to see another game  
AcesUp : 10/16/2017 1:09 am : link
This thing lined up for us to pull off the upset, I'm not reading too much into it.
Eric from bbi  
RD in CT : 10/16/2017 1:11 am : link
Take a deep breath, enjoy the fact that we beat the bags out of the Broncos on national tv, and go from there. You’re allowed to enjoy things a day at a time
It felt different because  
BlackLight : 10/16/2017 1:12 am : link
there could not have been less pressure on the team (or its fanbase) to win the game. Good opponent, in their building, injuries all over the place, street free agents starting at WR, and really nothing to play for except pride.

The team played fast, loose, and downhill from the opening kickoff.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/16/2017 1:14 am : link
Fluker has made some mistakes in pass pro and absolutely has warts - but this team has been able to run the damn ball when he's been on the line.

It just annoys me that we came into this season with virtually zero competition or possibility of a different grouping because of "continuity" - you have to put your best guys out there where they are in their best positions.

The problem with Darkwa is that he always seems to get hurt when he gets a larger workload - but if guys like Darkwa or Gallman are able to gain some yardage like this, it tells me that these guys can run block and that these coaches should have identified this much earlier.

Maybe I'm putting too much stock in a couple of games - it just feels like maybe this year could have been a bit different if there was a better feel for the players on the roster and the offense was run accordingly.
good post arc  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2017 1:15 am : link
.
RE: arc...  
arcarsenal : 10/16/2017 1:18 am : link
In comment 13651114 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Well said.

Manning only completed 11 passes. We only gained 12 first downs. But it FELT different. That all said, this offense has a long way to go.

The Giants really have botched the OL situation for some time now. It's not only a talent issue, but as folks have pointed out, THE COACHES (unless they were being pressured by the front office) picked the wrong configuration.

They killed the season with the first five losses. Right now, I'm happy they won, but in a way, it feels like another kick to the balls because three of the five losses were games where we had 4th quarter leads. If our OL had been configured better... if Tom Quinn's special teams did have a huge hand in four of the losses... if the defense could have held the lead in three of those losses...

Oh well.


You know what I mean... this game had a totally different feel - this was the first time all year where I felt like on both sides of the ball, we were going to do what we had to do.

It felt like the Giants came into this game, had a game plan, and followed through with it.

Like I said before, it's just frustrating because I feel like this team should never have been in this 0-5 hole to start. But it's too late now and here we are.
We, the fans, have been calling for more Fluker and Darkwa  
SHO'NUFF : 10/16/2017 1:28 am : link
how the hell can we see the difference and the coaches can't? I would not be completely surprised if they reinsert Perkins when healthy.
What’s maddening is...  
bradshaw44 : 10/16/2017 1:29 am : link
I was all in on this team tanking. If we handedly beat Seattle (who isn’t having a good season) I’m going to start believing in 11-5. Shame on me.
Could this have anything to do with it??  
prdave73 : 10/16/2017 1:36 am : link
Something that should have happened since day one and maybe things would have been different, maybe Odell would still be playing and the Giants would be playing like we all expected them to play! This is why I still think Mcadoo should still be fired and replaced.
Link - ( New Window )
Given the fact we were without our top 3 Recievers  
montanagiant : 10/16/2017 1:41 am : link
Including one of the game's biggest playmakers, there is absolutely no reason to not proclaim tonight's offense a complete success.

SUlly had a perfect game plan for tonight which featured our rookie TE sensation. It was so nice watching a TE do damage again
RE: Could this have anything to do with it??  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 1:50 am : link
In comment 13651146 prdave73 said:
Quote:
Something that should have happened since day one and maybe things would have been different, maybe Odell would still be playing and the Giants would be playing like we all expected them to play! This is why I still think Mcadoo should still be fired and replaced. Link - ( New Window )


Yeah, I don't know how believable this is as proof of anything.

The Giants looked especially effective as he pushed the right buttons on the opening drive when they went 69 yards on 13 plays and settled for a momentum-setting field goal.

I mean, really?
RE: What’s maddening is...  
arcarsenal : 10/16/2017 1:53 am : link
In comment 13651138 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
I was all in on this team tanking. If we handedly beat Seattle (who isn’t having a good season) I’m going to start believing in 11-5. Shame on me.


It's way too late for this season to turn around like that - I just feel like this team didn't even seem competitive the first few weeks and there's no way it should have been like that.

I felt like I was watching a professional football team tonight. A team that had a game plan, looked prepared, and executed when there were plays to make.

To have as many impact players missing like we did tonight and play that type of game - that's team football, preparedness, and good coaching.

Just sucks that it took this long to see something like that.
I mean if we really take a step back  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 1:56 am : link
It's not fair to say this is the first game where they looked competitive or competent. They could/should have won each of the last 3 games. Record-setting long FG to lose to Philly, Lost by a FG to tampa as time expired, and that Charger game they were leading the entire way and controlling the clock.
Take a look at the last three weeks  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 2:08 am : link
Tampa: 28 rushes, 91 yards, 1 TD
Chargers: 25 rushes, 152 yards, 1 TD
Tonight: 30 rushes, 144 yards, 1 TD

What dramatically changed? The line is playing better, the defense is playing better. There wasn't this revolutionary shift in changing playcallers. They lost the charger game on a sack-fumble-turnover in the 4th quarter. They lost the Tampa game despite dominating time of possession because the defense busted coverages to TEs all day long.
You cannot look at the attempts in a bubble.  
robbieballs2003 : 10/16/2017 2:46 am : link
Tampa: 49 pass attempts
LA: 36 attempts
Denver: 19 attempts

It is more about the ratio.
I kept waiting for the Giants to implode.  
Giant John : 10/16/2017 4:42 am : link
They didn't. For the first time this season I enjoyed a Giants game. It's a nice feeling.
For the run game  
jeff57 : 10/16/2017 5:14 am : link
Fluker s and Pugh on the right side is a drastic improvement over Herrera and Hart.
Yup run game  
Carl in CT : 10/16/2017 6:18 am : link
Started with Jones
RE: For the run game  
section125 : 10/16/2017 6:44 am : link
In comment 13651188 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Fluker s and Pugh on the right side is a drastic improvement over Herrera and Hart.


The Giants were running well to the right last week when Hart was at RT. No doubt Pugh is the better RT, but don't dismiss what happened last week.
It felt different  
Dave on the UWS : 10/16/2017 6:45 am : link
because the HC was there for the whole team. He let his coordinators run their areas. He made the correct decisions on who to play (OL). He set the tone and the players played hard for 60 min. If the only thing that comes out of this season is 1. Mac showing he CAN be the coach and 2. Identifying who is part of the solution than that’s enough at this point.
It felt like last year's team  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/16/2017 6:59 am : link
to be honest.

We finally had a pass rush so our defensive backfield could make some plays.

The defense needs the pass rush to be successful
Also -- this was a trap game for Denver  
David B. : 10/16/2017 7:35 am : link
Everyone thought they were going to pound the woeful 0-5 Giants with their depleted roster. A desperate, winless team can be dangerous in such situations, and for whatever reason it took this long, the Giants FINALLY were.

Yeah, the OL looked better. Maybe Sullivan was a difference. Hell, John Jerry even played better on the left side. Darkwah ran better, Engram had a great night, and most importantly, this was the first time the D actually played remotely close to what people expected them to look like this year.

They almost looked like the team they were expected to be this year. Except for the lack of Beckham, Vernon, Marshall, Sheppard, DRC etc.

Looked to me  
BobOnLI : 10/16/2017 7:42 am : link
There were many fewer missed tackles.
9-7 Believe it and it will happen  
nybeast : 10/16/2017 7:43 am : link
I called 9-7 from beginning. Without Beckham it will be difficult but what I saw something of a rally cry last night with the team around the situation their in. Seeing that they put Beckham's helmet out there and seeing how the schedule is not looking so fearsome these next 7 games, suggests to me the Giants have a shot. Keep in mind our defense doesn't have one debilitating injury and this was the number 2 defense last year in points allowed. If they can find that and the offense can do what it did last night, who knows....
RE: It felt different  
smshmth8690 : 10/16/2017 7:46 am : link
In comment 13651210 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
because the HC was there for the whole team. He let his coordinators run their areas. He made the correct decisions on who to play (OL). He set the tone and the players played hard for 60 min. If the only thing that comes out of this season is 1. Mac showing he CAN be the coach and 2. Identifying who is part of the solution than that’s enough at this point.


Let's call it Complimentary Coaching, that's where it starts. Glad to see the HC took his head out of his ass this week.
Trap game they say  
blueblood'11 : 10/16/2017 7:47 am : link
I get it but don’t forget there was much expected from this Giants team at the beginning of the year. So too bad if you take them lightly. They are capable and early on they told Denver we aren’t fucking around. We are here to play some football and they did all night long. So I’m not buying the trap game bullshit. And let’s not forget that Denver was fresher then the Giants just coming off a buy week. Plus they had the advantage also of playing at altitude.
For everyone advocating firing Reese..  
Sean : 10/16/2017 8:13 am : link
after tonight the problem looks more to be coaching. This team has talent.
the NFL is in bizarro land  
GMAN4LIFE : 10/16/2017 8:27 am : link
so many injuries. So many teams blowing it. Even the saints almost blew the game and the Falcons actually blew the game.

its weird
As far as I'm concerned  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/16/2017 8:33 am : link
the team we always knew was there showed up last night

The biggest change was the O line configuration and Sully making the play calls

This game was the defense coming back to life  
jcn56 : 10/16/2017 8:39 am : link
Everyone's going to point towards the playcalling on O, the OL - but let's face it, the O was a placeholder last night. They did an admirable job against a tough D, on the road with guys at WR who needed Eli to show them how to run routes before the game (kidding, but that's how NBC wanted you to take it based on that segment).

The D, minus DRC and Vernon, came out, ugh, "heavy handed" and "bullied" the other team off the field. They got after the QB, they stopped the run, and they wrapped up all over the field.

This was the D we knew we had, the question is - where the fuck were these guys for the first few weeks of the season? I hate to say first few, for the first couple of weeks I felt they did a very good job, despite being hung out to dry by a completely dysfunctional offense. But the next 3 games were an absolute abomination, and I still can't figure out why Spags hasn't eaten more shit over it to date.
Ultimately  
gmen9892 : 10/16/2017 8:59 am : link
The Giants just hit their first shot in a beer pong game, to avoid the shutout and having to run around the house naked.

I also want to say this with all honesty, that was the best feeling after a W I have had in the past 2 years. None of the 11 wins last year were this decisive (against a very good opponent), and it was shocking/awesome to watch. Just wish we won one of the previous 3 and we would have a season right now.
Blue colored glasses  
Bluesbreaker : 10/16/2017 9:09 am : link
For everyone advocating firing Reese..
Sean : 8:13 am : link : reply
after tonight the problem looks more to be coaching. This team has talent.

Reese drafting has been terrible that why we have little to no depth . We had 12 first downs the WR's caught two balls .
We won the game in the trenches as in part to Pugh moving to RT and inserting Fluker . Hart needs to stay on the bench
he is not a RT . Was happy for Darkwa because he is always injured . The pick six gave us some breathing room and the run game aided in the TOP keeping the defense from wearing out they still hung 400 yards of passing . Apple finally played a decent game he had 3 passes defended and made some good stops .
...  
christian : 10/16/2017 9:13 am : link
Denver also made some poor decisions. On 4th and goal down 17 they should have absolutely taken the points.

The defense is not a dominant unit, but can have dominant stretches. The offense needs to move the football at an average clip and this D will resemble last year's. Lots of bend, timely turnovers and lockdown red zone play.

The biggest difference last night was no head scratching, stomach turning turn over.
100% with jcn on this  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2017 9:18 am : link
The offense was better than expected, yes, but the real story here is how the defense suddenly looked like the monster that they were last year. Where was that effort in the first five weeks?
They wanted to win for your birthday.  
BrettNYG10 : 10/16/2017 9:19 am : link
.
This team could very easily be 3-3 or 4-2  
BlueHurricane : 10/16/2017 9:22 am : link
Hell at 2-4 we would feel a lot different about this team. Don't be shocked if they go on a little win stream just to make the beginning of the season even more maddening.
This game feels different  
Dan in the Springs : 10/16/2017 9:42 am : link
because the Giants won and while it may seem like they won big, that was only because they got up early. This is what made it feel different throughout the game. The early offensive success - if you swapped all the late 3 and outs for the early offensive success it would have felt similar.

On defense, after weeks of waiting for it, we finally saw some big plays on defense with the pick-6, Collins' interception, and the goal-line stand.

This game was closer than the scoreboard might indicate. Take away the pick-6, the missed and blocked FG's by Denver, and give them the TD that was so close the replay officials couldn't confirm one way or the other, and this game probably would have been lost by the NYG.

I'm glad they won, they deserved to win. They also were very close to winning the previous three weeks. They just couldn't catch the breaks, didn't score early, and couldn't get a big defensive stop or play in those previous three games. Football fans should realize those things were going to happen, but also shouldn't count on them happening every week.
As was said on another thread...  
Britt in VA : 10/16/2017 9:44 am : link
it felt different because the Giants played like they had an identity on offense for the first time in a long time.
RE: This game feels different  
gmen9892 : 10/16/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13651470 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
because the Giants won and while it may seem like they won big, that was only because they got up early. This is what made it feel different throughout the game. The early offensive success - if you swapped all the late 3 and outs for the early offensive success it would have felt similar.

On defense, after weeks of waiting for it, we finally saw some big plays on defense with the pick-6, Collins' interception, and the goal-line stand.

This game was closer than the scoreboard might indicate. Take away the pick-6, the missed and blocked FG's by Denver, and give them the TD that was so close the replay officials couldn't confirm one way or the other, and this game probably would have been lost by the NYG.

I'm glad they won, they deserved to win. They also were very close to winning the previous three weeks. They just couldn't catch the breaks, didn't score early, and couldn't get a big defensive stop or play in those previous three games. Football fans should realize those things were going to happen, but also shouldn't count on them happening every week.


Dan, you can play the if's and but's game in about 95% of the NFL games played. Most are tightly contested and could go either way. I dont think it was a matter of the game being close or not that made this W feel good. We saw 11 W's last year, and I dont think any of them felt as good as this one. As mentioned before, the Giants were able to establish a run game, pass-block with 2 competent looking Tackles, and play a sound defensive football game. It was a sight to see. Unfortunately, probably a tad too late.
Coughlin was all about balance on offense  
Heisenberg : 10/16/2017 10:02 am : link
It makes you wonder if this adjustment might have come earlier if we hadn't shown him the door.
This felt like a Coughlin offense  
spike : 10/16/2017 11:16 am : link
Than macadoo. Maybe its because of Sullivan

Simien sucks. Hes a big reason why they lost
They've had the lead with 3 minutes left each of the past 4 weeks.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/16/2017 11:23 am : link
If the DEFENSE had played better at the end of those games, they'd be a minimum of 3-3 right now. Sully did a good job, but whoever was calling the game was going to have to use a ton of 2 TE personnel groupings and feature Evan Engram. It's not like Sully had the full roster and decided to do this. In addition, let's stop pretending they never ran the ball when Mac was calling plays. In the final month last year, Perkins AND Rashad Jennings averaged 15 carries per game each.

They lose and the coach gets killed. They win and the coach gets killed. Classic BBI.
RE: RE: arc...  
clatterbuck : 10/16/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13651128 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13651114 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Well said.

Manning only completed 11 passes. We only gained 12 first downs. But it FELT different. That all said, this offense has a long way to go.

The Giants really have botched the OL situation for some time now. It's not only a talent issue, but as folks have pointed out, THE COACHES (unless they were being pressured by the front office) picked the wrong configuration.

They killed the season with the first five losses. Right now, I'm happy they won, but in a way, it feels like another kick to the balls because three of the five losses were games where we had 4th quarter leads. If our OL had been configured better... if Tom Quinn's special teams did have a huge hand in four of the losses... if the defense could have held the lead in three of those losses...

Oh well.




You know what I mean... this game had a totally different feel - this was the first time all year where I felt like on both sides of the ball, we were going to do what we had to do.

It felt like the Giants came into this game, had a game plan, and followed through with it.

Like I said before, it's just frustrating because I feel like this team should never have been in this 0-5 hole to start. But it's too late now and here we are.


Maybe the different "feel" just comes down to the basics of winning physical battles, not getting blown up, making blocks, getting off blocks, not making dumbass mental mistakes, not whiffing on tackles, you know, competency.
RE: You cannot look at the attempts in a bubble.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2017 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13651173 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Tampa: 49 pass attempts
LA: 36 attempts
Denver: 19 attempts

It is more about the ratio.




While there's some merit to that, the ratio from last night is completely unsustainable for the purposes of winning in most cases. You aren't going to go anywhere meaningful if you cannot establish a pass offense, thus a balanced offense. You can bet the next team will be keying for the run and it won't be a "trap game". A run heavy offense that can't pass when they have to is easily defended. They're not at the point where they can confidently run even when the opponent knows it's coming. Even last night, a good night for running, plenty of plays got stuffed at or behind the line. That plan also won't work if they fall behind and don't have a defense that's creating turnovers and actually scoring.
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