He is missing wide open receivers. His pocket awareness with feeling pressure keeps getting worse and he fumbled twice, losing one of them. That throw into double coverage looks like a rookie mistake.
I hate to admit this, but Eli Manning is part of the problem of why this offense is so atrocious.
With that said, he played well against the Packers in the playoffs. I think he has some football left - but I don't feel that confident that he'll be a top ten QB again - and I'm doubtful he gets back to that level with NYG. I hope I'm wrong on that last point of course.
But the real question is whether you want to do a major rebuild around a 37 year old QB. I just don't see that as an intelligent approach when you have the opportunity to possibly draft your next franchise QB.
You don't have to build the next ten years around him, but you also don't throw a rookie that you covet out there to the wolves with a junior college level offensive roster.
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Also, Patrick Mahomes was drafted 10th overall and is sitting this year.
You can still do it when the circumstances make sense.
And in the case for the Giants it makes zero sense. Look how good Wentz and Goff are in their second years after going through their lumps as rookies. Having Eli under center next year will only delay the rebuild. Take a QB high and let him play next year. Use the $10M in cap savings in 2018 and the completely opened up cap in 2019 from the Eli release to build a team around the young QB.
We have no idea where they're going to draft or who they're going to draft - or what the roster is going to look like.
Again - if the circumstances make sense, it's not out of the question for Eli to be the starter Week 1. It happens.
It's not something you can completely rule out. Especially not now.
That post doesn't make sense.
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Yeah, maybe some want to do that in the heat of the moment.
But the real question is whether you want to do a major rebuild around a 37 year old QB. I just don't see that as an intelligent approach when you have the opportunity to possibly draft your next franchise QB.
You don't have to build the next ten years around him, but you also don't throw a rookie that you covet out there to the wolves with a junior college level offensive roster.
Having skill players like Beckham, Shephard and Engram is not anywhere near a junior college level offense. They absolutely need to upgrade the offensive line, but that is a good situation for a rookie QB.
Yup!
The Giants aren't playing Webb this year. Whether they should or not, they won't. But they won't hesitate to play him or someone else if this happens again next season.
But Eli is 37, and I don't think even a vastly improved roster in 2018 will make up for overthrows, dumb picks, and total lack of athleticism.
It's time to retire. You don't rebuild with a 37 year-old QB.
It's time for the Giants to get a mobile, athletic quarterback who can make things happen even when a bad OL allows pressure up the middle.
Oh, wait...
Either Eli is the problem or his circumstances are the problem.
Here's the truth...
Eli hasn't played well, but has also been hurt by poor protection, injuries and some crappy coaching.
It actually CAN be both things.
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
Hard to evaluate Eli fairly in this one given the OL and WR injuries.
Frankly, it doesn't matter what you think a. because you're not making the decision, and b. he has a no trade clause so even if you were making the decisions he could veto you.
“He can’t play anymore but let’s get some picks for him!”
some of you guys are so clueless
There have been a few - he's missing some plays that are there to be made.
But he has to be close to perfect now - otherwise forget it. And that's not on him.
Eli literally missed about 4-5 hr plays today. He missed 2-3 every fucking week. I'm not even counting his typical inaccuracies or misses but the guy had WRs running free all over the field and he missed them time and time again. Then there are the fumbles which happen every single week. And the lack of mobility. And this horse shit pop gun chuck and duck offense that Eli endorsed.
Eli isn't helping here. It's as clear as day.
Impossible?? Really.
He's not helping. He's missing open WRs every single quarter of every single game. His hot streaks don't last that long and his cold streaks are longer. He can't turn a broken play around at all.
Eli is not a very good qb anymore here. Maybe it isn't his fault but it sure as fuck isn't working.
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The offense is in shambles. The blocking sucks. The defense gives 3rd and 33. And the overall thesis is Eli needs to be replaced? Yeah, you know football.
There have been a few - he's missing some plays that are there to be made.
But he has to be close to perfect now - otherwise forget it. And that's not on him.
As you say, if he’s not perfect, he gets the blame. He misses Shepherd by a yard and the pitchforks are out. Strange how it’s always the same cast of characters blaming him.
A lot of quarterbacks would struggle behind this line. You are asking the impossible of a quarterback that is on the downside of a great career. Give him Beckham back, a line worth a shit and a decent defense and we’re in the playoffs.
Eli was awful most of the game. I don't understand what is accomplished by keeping your head in the sand when it comes to acknowledging that.
That post doesn't make sense.
There were plenty of talking heads last year who said Goff was a bust and not a NFL caliber QB. There have been plenty of talking heads apologizing for those comments this year.
He's not returning to top 10 status either as a qb. his play is more in the 20-25 as a starter right now and even last year.
And forget about a trade. Not a team out there would trade for him. Bortles is starting to even be respectable.....
Those often defending his play point to his lack of personnel and line and dismiss his critics as 'know nothings'. Yet guys were open and he missed. When he has had time he does not make plays downfield and he fumbles way too much now.
And to those claiming the Giants will be stuck with Jerry Goldstyns and the like. Ridicuolous. The NFL and drafting has changed a lot. Collins was respectable and came to the team 5 seasons after Simms. In the seasons between 84 and 17 really the only period the Giants did not have a respectable starter was 94-98.
Seems like some of the pro-Eli crowd would like the Giants to go through a
70s slump in order to proclaim they were correct.
As you say, if he’s not perfect, he gets the blame. He misses Shepherd by a yard and the pitchforks are out. Strange how it’s always the same cast of characters blaming him.
A lot of quarterbacks would struggle behind this line. You are asking the impossible of a quarterback that is on the downside of a great career. Give him Beckham back, a line worth a shit and a decent defense and we’re in the playoffs.
The other side of that is it's always the same cast of characters who absolutely refuse to blame the QB for anything regardless of how he plays. He missed more than just that one Sheppard throw. Heck, he missed 3 throws to Sheppard alone.
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In comment 13676882 PetesHereNow said:
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The offense is in shambles. The blocking sucks. The defense gives 3rd and 33. And the overall thesis is Eli needs to be replaced? Yeah, you know football.
There have been a few - he's missing some plays that are there to be made.
But he has to be close to perfect now - otherwise forget it. And that's not on him.
As you say, if he’s not perfect, he gets the blame. He misses Shepherd by a yard and the pitchforks are out. Strange how it’s always the same cast of characters blaming him.
A lot of quarterbacks would struggle behind this line. You are asking the impossible of a quarterback that is on the downside of a great career. Give him Beckham back, a line worth a shit and a decent defense and we’re in the playoffs.
This.
If the Giants go the classic rebuild route this off-season it’s going to be a long time until they’re competitive again — and that’s assuming a new QB is actually a legit franchise QB.
This team doesn’t need to be blown up. There is talent to build around despite the results on the field. The organization just needs to commit to addressing the deficiencies. Rebuild the OL, find actual players at the LB position, add a pash rusher and they’re right back in the mix next year.
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As you say, if he’s not perfect, he gets the blame. He misses Shepherd by a yard and the pitchforks are out. Strange how it’s always the same cast of characters blaming him.
A lot of quarterbacks would struggle behind this line. You are asking the impossible of a quarterback that is on the downside of a great career. Give him Beckham back, a line worth a shit and a decent defense and we’re in the playoffs.
The other side of that is it's always the same cast of characters who absolutely refuse to blame the QB for anything regardless of how he plays. He missed more than just that one Sheppard throw. Heck, he missed 3 throws to Sheppard alone.
Name the throws then. Show me screen shots. Shepherd dropped a couple too. Engram dropped one. Vereen dropped one. The offense is so predictable that I told my dad Gallman up the middle on the play he fumbled when the game still mattered. You know why? When the back lines up two yards behind Eli, it’s ALWAYS the quick halfback dive.
The offense is predictable as all hell. And you’re blaming the guy who’s least to blame. But yes, he is on the downside of his career. Is that not placing blame?
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In comment 13676882 PetesHereNow said:
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The offense is in shambles. The blocking sucks. The defense gives 3rd and 33. And the overall thesis is Eli needs to be replaced? Yeah, you know football.
There have been a few - he's missing some plays that are there to be made.
But he has to be close to perfect now - otherwise forget it. And that's not on him.
As you say, if he’s not perfect, he gets the blame. He misses Shepherd by a yard and the pitchforks are out. Strange how it’s always the same cast of characters blaming him.
A lot of quarterbacks would struggle behind this line. You are asking the impossible of a quarterback that is on the downside of a great career. Give him Beckham back, a line worth a shit and a decent defense and we’re in the playoffs.
I would mostly agree.
Eli is probably an average-ish QB at this point - he can't carry an offense. He needs the right pieces around him. But if those pieces are there and you can run the ball and play some defense, you can absolutely win with Eli still.
A team that is completely falling apart defensively, has no WR's left, and can't pass protect well - it's a recipe for disaster. Eli cannot survive that.
He's left plays on the field at times - he's not blameless - but people here are trying to put everything on him or are acting like this is his fault. It's not. There's a lot of things going wrong here.
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In comment 13676905 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13676882 PetesHereNow said:
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The offense is in shambles. The blocking sucks. The defense gives 3rd and 33. And the overall thesis is Eli needs to be replaced? Yeah, you know football.
There have been a few - he's missing some plays that are there to be made.
But he has to be close to perfect now - otherwise forget it. And that's not on him.
As you say, if he’s not perfect, he gets the blame. He misses Shepherd by a yard and the pitchforks are out. Strange how it’s always the same cast of characters blaming him.
A lot of quarterbacks would struggle behind this line. You are asking the impossible of a quarterback that is on the downside of a great career. Give him Beckham back, a line worth a shit and a decent defense and we’re in the playoffs.
I would mostly agree.
Eli is probably an average-ish QB at this point - he can't carry an offense. He needs the right pieces around him. But if those pieces are there and you can run the ball and play some defense, you can absolutely win with Eli still.
A team that is completely falling apart defensively, has no WR's left, and can't pass protect well - it's a recipe for disaster. Eli cannot survive that.
He's left plays on the field at times - he's not blameless - but people here are trying to put everything on him or are acting like this is his fault. It's not. There's a lot of things going wrong here.
I think if you gave him a decent line that he could depend on that his average play would rise to above average. A defense that makes a tackle on 3rd and 33 would be nice too. That is what made a 3 pt game into a 10 or game.
Eli is basically in a position where he gets a look like that 2-3 times a game MAX. If he doesn't hit the throw, he probably doesn't get another shot at it. A lot of QB's on better teams will get a couple more opps.
Regardless - given the QB class that is upcoming and where we're going to likely be picking, we've got to take one of them if the next GM here has strong convictions.
Rosen, Jackson, Rudolph... you could make a case for any of those guys I think.
I want to see someone come in here and make a commitment to building strong trenches and controlling the LOS.
I want the Giants to be a team that can control TOP, run the ball, and shut down the run. I want to see effective play-action passing. I want to see a tough, physical football team.
I hope the next GM will be someone who has a great eye for line play and can build this team from the inside out.
That’s the Shepherd pass I’m speaking about earlier. So the one shot he had at a big play doesn’t work and it’s all his fault? Nope. Yes, he’s on the downside but you can win with him if you fix the line, get an offensive mind calling the plays, and find a defense.
As far Eli's future, I think a lot of it will have to do with what he wants. If he wants to play the place of mentor/placeholder for a young QB while we rebuild, it may work. If he wants a shot with a contender willing to pay in a trade (say Jax or Denver), then we should consider moving him for future assets and replacing him with a true journeyman for that role. Whatever it is, the plan for this franchise better be a reboot because a bandaid is not going to cut it....it's time.
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was still a very close game, too.
That’s the Shepherd pass I’m speaking about earlier. So the one shot he had at a big play doesn’t work and it’s all his fault? Nope. Yes, he’s on the downside but you can win with him if you fix the line, get an offensive mind calling the plays, and find a defense.
He missed more than one. And, nah. He's going to be 37 years old next season. You find a new QB, especially if you could possibly get the top pick in the 2018 draft.
How would you tear it down and rebuild?
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In comment 13677128 Dave in Hoboken said:
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was still a very close game, too.
That’s the Shepherd pass I’m speaking about earlier. So the one shot he had at a big play doesn’t work and it’s all his fault? Nope. Yes, he’s on the downside but you can win with him if you fix the line, get an offensive mind calling the plays, and find a defense.
He missed more than one. And, nah. He's going to be 37 years old next season. You find a new QB, especially if you could possibly get the top pick in the 2018 draft.
And if that pick is a bust? You cannot throw a young quarterback behind this line as currently constructed. You have to fix the other stuff first. Look at Prescott on the last drive. Show me anytime Eli has had a consistent pocket like that since 2008. There’s nobody near Prescott. There’s a 1000 problems with the Giants right now and Eli is about number 63.
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In comment 13677153 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 13677128 Dave in Hoboken said:
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was still a very close game, too.
That’s the Shepherd pass I’m speaking about earlier. So the one shot he had at a big play doesn’t work and it’s all his fault? Nope. Yes, he’s on the downside but you can win with him if you fix the line, get an offensive mind calling the plays, and find a defense.
He missed more than one. And, nah. He's going to be 37 years old next season. You find a new QB, especially if you could possibly get the top pick in the 2018 draft.
And if that pick is a bust? You cannot throw a young quarterback behind this line as currently constructed. You have to fix the other stuff first. Look at Prescott on the last drive. Show me anytime Eli has had a consistent pocket like that since 2008. There’s nobody near Prescott. There’s a 1000 problems with the Giants right now and Eli is about number 63.
Wait a minute. Because the pick might be a 'bust', you don't make a pick to replace a near 40 year old QB?
Welp, looks like the Eli excuse makers have officially run out of excuses.
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In comment 13677159 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13677153 PetesHereNow said:
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In comment 13677128 Dave in Hoboken said:
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was still a very close game, too.
That’s the Shepherd pass I’m speaking about earlier. So the one shot he had at a big play doesn’t work and it’s all his fault? Nope. Yes, he’s on the downside but you can win with him if you fix the line, get an offensive mind calling the plays, and find a defense.
He missed more than one. And, nah. He's going to be 37 years old next season. You find a new QB, especially if you could possibly get the top pick in the 2018 draft.
And if that pick is a bust? You cannot throw a young quarterback behind this line as currently constructed. You have to fix the other stuff first. Look at Prescott on the last drive. Show me anytime Eli has had a consistent pocket like that since 2008. There’s nobody near Prescott. There’s a 1000 problems with the Giants right now and Eli is about number 63.
Wait a minute. Because the pick might be a 'bust', you don't make a pick to replace a near 40 year old QB?
Welp, looks like the Eli excuse makers have officially run out of excuses.
37 really isn't that near 40, is it? IS IT?
Goff had the game of his life and also missed wide open guys.
The difference is he has wide open guys all day. Eli didn't.
Eli isn't the problem. Not close.
I think they need to bring someone in here who has a clear plan and wants to create an identity here. Someone who can mold the personnel and commit to a certain philosophy.
The Giants have no identity at all right now. What are they?
They're nothing but a crappy football team.
While it's true we've had a lot of injuries - it's clear that this team is not well-coached. The talent we went into this season with should not have yielded a team this poor.
Even if the roster was flawed.. it shouldn't have taken until mid-October to get one fucking win.
Gotcha. But you need a new QB, too. You could still draft a QB and have Eli behind the bad OLine until the OLine is fixed. According to draft experts, there are no great OT in this year's draft. So, you might as well get your QB when you're picking this high.
I think they need to bring someone in here who has a clear plan and wants to create an identity here. Someone who can mold the personnel and commit to a certain philosophy.
The Giants have no identity at all right now. What are they?
They're nothing but a crappy football team.
While it's true we've had a lot of injuries - it's clear that this team is not well-coached. The talent we went into this season with should not have yielded a team this poor.
Even if the roster was flawed.. it shouldn't have taken until mid-October to get one fucking win.
I 4000% agree with you.