Eli Manning is DONE

In comment 13676426 Britt in VA said:
[quote] up their mind.

"All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good."

Yikes .... didn't they hire Mac because he was suppose to be some kind of offensive genius?

Letting TC go was like keeping Allie Sherman and letting Vince Lombardi go to the Packers.

Eli has been without his top receivers, he is a pocket passer in an offense with no pocket, he is under pressure all game from four-man rushes, and defenses are begging us to run as they sit back in coverage.

And Eli is the problem? Eli isn't a runner. Never has been. Which QB who isn't a runner is succeeding in this offense?

Brady? Even when he had this situation, he was manhandled by the Chiefs and everyone thought he was done. The biggest difference is that he had Bill Belichick running the show who adapts his schemes and strategies to match his personnel. An even if Brady could succeed with this offense, there are many who consider him the single greatest QB of all time (though I'm not one of them).

QBs are not supposed to be facing immediate pressure all game while facing variants of Cover 2.

Someone tell me how a good non-running QB is making this offense work having to throw into pass coverage to guys like King, Lewis and Rudolph?

but you do need pocket presence and fearlessness. Fearlessness to not be scared to get hit. Eli is frightened as most 37 year olds would be at this point in their careers. That's where he's diminished, IMO. Physically, I don't see him diminished. Mentally, he's not the same guy.

There are a lot of reasons this offense has been so bad for 2 seasons, but I'm sorry, Eli is one of those reasons.

Eli missed WIDE OPEN receivers vs the Rams. He had Shepard for a TD and missed him. Had another WR in the end zone and threw it out of the end zone. He was inaccurate on crossing patterns. All of this with time to throw in the pocket.

How does a two time SB MVP have to call timeout early in the first half and second half because the play clock was gonna run out.

His ball security in the pocket is not very good for a 2 time SB MVP.

Yes, he has two WRs on IR and a poor OL, but when he's had time he has made inaccurate throws.

Can Eli play better and win another championship in the NFL? Maybe.

My gut feeling after watching that game Sunday was that he looked like a QB who was done.

true, Eli would rather get rid of the ball than take a big hit out of self-preservation. But I'm not so sure I would rather have a QB who wants to stand in there. If that's the case, I fear every game will approach the 2012 NFCCG against the 49ers. I don't think any QB can withstand that every week, certainly not one I want to depend on for a season.

the throw to Sheppard and the TD miss, I remember it differently. The Rams were barrelling down on him immediately and he had to get rid of it very early.

I'd also like to see the play again, but I remember feeling surprised that Sheppard didn't jump or lay out for it. It looked within arm's reach.

Defenses know that Eli doesn't want to get hit and they know he's going to throw it up a few times to avoid it, its much easier to play defense. Its also easier for the dline as there is blood in the water.

is rag-dolling guys like Fluker and Jerry. The D-line is getting pressure with four guys on a consistent basis and dropping LBs into coverage for all the short routes.

I really don't see what Eli is supposed to do in these situations.

that's the NFL. Not every QB has all day like Dak Prescott to sit back and scan the field and hit guys running open. You need to make accurate throws under duress. Eli cannot do that.

In comment 13684592 Keith said:

Quote:

but you do need pocket presence and fearlessness. Fearlessness to not be scared to get hit. Eli is frightened as most 37 year olds would be at this point in their careers. That's where he's diminished, IMO. Physically, I don't see him diminished. Mentally, he's not the same guy. There are a lot of reasons this offense has been so bad for 2 seasons, but I'm sorry, Eli is one of those reasons.

What a crock of sh-t. Eli is scared?

alot of times yes, definitely not all the time. When he does have time, he's ducking and hearing footsteps. He's got happy feet back there. Trying to suggest that he's under pressure every drop back is being a little disingenuous.

but he's done on the giants. I don't think we will ever be able to win with Eli and this current situation. Eli would have to be in a situation like Dallas to win. A studly running game and lots of time to throw with little worry of getting hit.

In comment 13684617 Keith said:

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but he's done on the giants. I don't think we will ever be able to win with Eli and this current situation. Eli would have to be in a situation like Dallas to win. A studly running game and lots of time to throw with little worry of getting hit.

A lot of people keep saying that, and I'm not sure if it's because it's what they want, or what they believe.

Gun to your head, who is the starting QB of the Giants week one next season?

in talking to you about Eli. I understand that you are a huge fan and unable to see things without bias. I can appreciate that because Eli has meant so much to the Giants and has never gotten the respect he deserves. I hate contributing to these threads because I don't want to come accross as anything other than a huge Eli fan who thinks its over.

Do I want to move on? Yes, but only because I don't see us winning with Eli, not because I don't like and appreciate Eli. As far as next year, I'm hoping there is a QB that we like that we draft early and trade Eli for assets.

about....

Again, REALISTICALLY, who is the starting QB for the Giants week 1, next year?

I keep reading that Eli is done with the Giants....

1. He has two years left on his contract.
2. He has a no trade clause
3. There is not a viable replacement for him right now
4. Even if you draft one, why wouldn't you let him sit and learn behind one of the most professional workers in the league?
5. The offense, as currently constructed and coached, is not going to allow any QB to be successful.
6. The new coach has a bunch of reasons to keep Manning around. The league is built with parity so teams can turn things around quickly. There actually IS talent on this roster. A couple of thrifty offensive line signings by the new GM, and a new offensive philosophy, the new coach might be able to get something together and having a veteran QB to manage it is an asset.
7. The new coach could also hedge his bets by keeping Manning around while grooming his replacement, and if things go bad early, he can sit Manning (like Warner), and go with the rookie. Which would buy him some time because hey, it's a rookie QB that has to go through growing pains.

There is pretty much ZERO logical reasoning that says Eli Manning is done as a Giant.

Wishful thinking by some, perhaps, but not reality.

but what I just posted is completely logical. It's not emotional, it's completely rooted in the reality of the business decision that needs to be made on Manning.

In comment 13684646 Britt in VA said:

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about.... Again, REALISTICALLY, who is the starting QB for the Giants week 1, next year? I keep reading that Eli is done with the Giants.... 1. He has two years left on his contract. 2. He has a no trade clause 3. There is not a viable replacement for him right now 4. Even if you draft one, why wouldn't you let him sit and learn behind one of the most professional workers in the league? 5. The offense, as currently constructed and coached, is not going to allow any QB to be successful. 6. The new coach has a bunch of reasons to keep Manning around. The league is built with parity so teams can turn things around quickly. There actually IS talent on this roster. A couple of thrifty offensive line signings by the new GM, and a new offensive philosophy, the new coach might be able to get something together and having a veteran QB to manage it is an asset. 7. The new coach could also hedge his bets by keeping Manning around while grooming his replacement, and if things go bad early, he can sit Manning (like Warner), and go with the rookie. Which would buy him some time because hey, it's a rookie QB that has to go through growing pains. There is pretty much ZERO logical reasoning that says Eli Manning is done as a Giant. Wishful thinking by some, perhaps, but not reality.

I happen to agree that Eli is the starter 2018 Week 1, but there’s an equally logical possibility that y

...that you are ignoring.

If a new GM and coach come in, and the decision is that the roster is a complete tear-down project, they may choose to cut Eli in the offseason simply to take the entire dead cap in 2018 and be done with it.

Again, not saying it’s likely. It does make some business sense though, depending on the direction being taken.

Which option looks better from an overall business standpoint?

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the Giants could cut him outright and save $9.8 million against next year's cap (though they'd also have to eat a $12.4 million dead-money charge). If they keep him for 2018, they could cut him after that season and save $17 million against their 2019 cap (with a dead-money charge of $6.2 million).

Keep in mind, cutting him next year means the rookie QB or Webb is the day 1 starter.

Link - ( New Window )

But my gut reaction to his performance on Sunday was "he is done". I'm not gonna apologize for feeling that way, nor am I looking to get rid of him.

As of right now, he is the starting QB in 2018 and 2019. He's under contract for those years.

Cutting a 2-time SB MVP QB would not sit well with me or other fans.

I could take trading him, but cutting him is wrong IMO.

In comment 13684669 Britt in VA said:

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Which option looks better from an overall business standpoint? Quote: the Giants could cut him outright and save $9.8 million against next year's cap (though they'd also have to eat a $12.4 million dead-money charge). If they keep him for 2018, they could cut him after that season and save $17 million against their 2019 cap (with a dead-money charge of $6.2 million). Keep in mind, cutting him next year means the rookie QB or Webb is the day 1 starter. Link - ( New Window )

You’d have to ask whoever the GM is. If next year is viewed as a wash, having a completely clean slate for 2019 could easily be viewed as the better of those two alternatives.

to consider next season a wash before the team ever took the field....

But you are right, it is the next GM's decision to make.

of the Giants next year than not.

1. I think he's done winning in NY. I don't think we will be able to build a team Eli can win on in NY.

2. I think the Giants owe it to Eli to put him in a better situation. Explore a trade that Eli agrees with or cut him and let him go wherever he wants.

same folks at the top leading the charge which means less likely Eli is at the helm at QB.

And pointedly, I don't want him to be and I have been an Eli supporter thru the years.

The team has to start over at the base before this will get better. And even if that means some other veteran backup type QB is starting day one before we put in Webb or a new franchise drafted QB than so be it.

If Eli is on the team it will slow down this rebuilding...

Eli can certainly still make most of the throws but come on.... he loses the ball when hit with such consistency and has been picked in the most crucial spots for a very long time. He changes the momentum against us way too much. happened before all of our WR's went down