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NFT: Knicks Chat: KP 4 MVP

DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 8:08 am
Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer


The Knicks have won back-to-back games when trailing by double digits entering the fourth quarter for the first time in the shot-clock era (since 1954-55), per Elias.


KP drops 28 points with 5 boards and 3 blocks and suddenly that's "meh" for him (stat line wise, and yet a franchise player level clutch showing from KP. The Knicks have been so bad while he was here he hasn't really had a chance to fhis "clutch" muscles too often. KP KP KP!. I don't actually expect him to win MVP this season but incredible how far he's come since last year where the perception was he didn't take a major step forward like many of us expected.

- Frank 3 points, 3 rebounds, 8 assists (wasn't Frank's best game and yet still contributed)

-KOQ 12 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks (keep KOQ!!)

-THjr 19 and 5

-Lance Thomas 10 and 5, looked like the solid player we remember when he first burst on the scene for us

-Kaminsky was invisible

-Dotson, Beasley, Willy, Sessions DNPCD, could Beasley be the one to go?

-Monk 8/17 21, 2 and 3


Around the league-

GF...16-21 (that alone is absurd) 40 points, 9 boards, 3 assists, 4 blocks

Middleton 20 points, 11 assists, 7 boards, 3 steals (3 point shooting is down so far but guy is having a big time season)

Lebron 30, 8, 9 and 3 (ho hum, hope he's okay playing Pippen to KP's Jordan next year)

Boogie 32, 13 and 6

Holiday is so throughly average. I thank my lucky stars we weren't the ones to give him 127 million

DSJ (huge game) 22 points 8 rebounds, 8 assists (9-22), +15

Markkanen 12, 2 rebounds

Jokic 41, 12 and 5 (beast)

Simmons 16, 13, and 6, 3 steals, 3 blocks... star

Fox 5-10 10 points, 8 assists
One thing i really liked hornacek did  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 8:16 am : link
kp onoy played 29 minutes, hopefully he is not gassed for tonight..

mcdermott is looking more amd more like a keeper, love how he cuts and moves without the ball...

It looks like frank'S minutes are being increased game by game and now 2 games in a row crunch time minutes. this is exactly why you start a guy like jack, he will never complain about minutes...

Anthony Davis  
Dave in PA : 11/8/2017 8:18 am : link
37/14/4
Guys like Thomas...  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 8:20 am : link
look so much better on a competitive team when they can slide into a specific role. He is a hard worker who is a good defender. If thats all you ask of him he is going to look better.

Dan, No love for McBuckets!!

We need to start playing better in the first half. These last two games ive wanted to shut off at halftime. The lack of D gets really frustrating, especially when we know they can play some D.
I'm loving what I'm seeing from McBuckets!!  
debo_GIANTS : 11/8/2017 8:21 am : link
He was fun to watch last night. Lets keep this going!!
RE: Guys like Thomas...  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 8:21 am : link
In comment 13681602 Italianju said:
Quote:
look so much better on a competitive team when they can slide into a specific role. He is a hard worker who is a good defender. If thats all you ask of him he is going to look better.

Dan, No love for McBuckets!!

We need to start playing better in the first half. These last two games ive wanted to shut off at halftime. The lack of D gets really frustrating, especially when we know they can play some D.


it is frustrating but how nice is it that they actually complete the comeback?
I was listening to the Ringer...  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 8:22 am : link
nba podcast from yesterday (I think) and they were mostly talking about KP, but they touched on Frank. They said if he never got any better then he is right now he would still play 10 years in this league because of how good his defense is.
still very early  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 8:22 am : link
but looking like perry won that trade?
ny16...  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 8:23 am : link
sure the completed comeback is fun, haha, but if they want to compete this year i dont think they can count on big comebacks all the time. I think tonight could be ugly, back to back with travel. I could see a really bad start for us.
I need an O'Quinn jersey!  
Chris684 : 11/8/2017 8:25 am : link
Love the way he plays, he would have fit right in on those 90's Knick teams.

I really enjoy the "team" aspect of this group.

I love that we have an old guy and a young guy at PG both contributing.

Kanter strikes me as a guy who is a major pain in the ass to match up with, he never stops or slows down.

Lance Thomas, nothing pretty but he has a role on a winning basketball team.

What can you say about KP?

All of this and Hardaway can definitely play better than he has. This is so refreshing.
RE: ny16...  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 8:25 am : link
In comment 13681610 Italianju said:
Quote:
sure the completed comeback is fun, haha, but if they want to compete this year i dont think they can count on big comebacks all the time. I think tonight could be ugly, back to back with travel. I could see a really bad start for us.


i agree, just saying nice to get excited and they actually win, how many times in the past knicks get down, make a fake comeback and lose by 7...

i agree about tonight, expecting a loss
This is fun  
yankeeslover : 11/8/2017 8:25 am : link
funny, how we dont hear the word Tank anymore associated with the Knicks.
I liked Mcbuckets dunk, wow, did not expect that.  
GiantsUA : 11/8/2017 8:27 am : link
Also liked the energy and chemistry we are seeing from the entire group.

RE: I was listening to the Ringer...  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 8:35 am : link
In comment 13681606 Italianju said:
Quote:
nba podcast from yesterday (I think) and they were mostly talking about KP, but they touched on Frank. They said if he never got any better then he is right now he would still play 10 years in this league because of how good his defense is.


He is playing offense like he did in france, he is not looking for his, looking to keep moving the ball
so....do we keep winning.....and forgo the lottery pick  
George from PA : 11/8/2017 8:37 am : link
or....hell with it....its too much fun to just be competitive
So much to enjoy about this team.  
Keith : 11/8/2017 8:38 am : link
The teamwork and unselfishness is fun to watch. The only guy who doesn't always play unselfish is THJR. Loved seeing KP tell him to settle down last night. KP is a true leader. The guys all have defined roles, they know what they are and what they do and they all seem to look to get the ball to KP which is the opposite of last year. Early on, KP hit a few 3's and the garden was rockin. Next possession Jack takes it to the rim and could have taken a tear drop or stop and pop, but instead threw an ally oop to KP. Jack gets it, unlike our PG's of years past.

On a side note, it's funny to read about OKC's problems. Ball stopping, no flow to the offense, 1 on 1.
RE: so....do we keep winning.....and forgo the lottery pick  
Keith : 11/8/2017 8:40 am : link
In comment 13681626 George from PA said:
Quote:
or....hell with it....its too much fun to just be competitive


Of course. This team is solid. You don't win 6 out of 7 by accident. I think we will be competing for the 6-8 seed in the playoffs which is much better than taking(because KP is taking his game to the next level, Frank is proving he has NBA talents and we have legit talent on the roster).
RE: So much to enjoy about this team.  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 8:47 am : link
In comment 13681629 Keith said:
Quote:
The teamwork and unselfishness is fun to watch. The only guy who doesn't always play unselfish is THJR. Loved seeing KP tell him to settle down last night. KP is a true leader. The guys all have defined roles, they know what they are and what they do and they all seem to look to get the ball to KP which is the opposite of last year. Early on, KP hit a few 3's and the garden was rockin. Next possession Jack takes it to the rim and could have taken a tear drop or stop and pop, but instead threw an ally oop to KP. Jack gets it, unlike our PG's of years past.

On a side note, it's funny to read about OKC's problems. Ball stopping, no flow to the offense, 1 on 1.


Cant really say tim is playing selfish when he is averaging 4 assists in this current stretch..averaging 3 assists for the season..

and last night took 14 shots and 50 percent from 3
I'm all for keeping OQuinn  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/8/2017 8:50 am : link
the guy brings a defensive energy off the bench. His offense and passing aren't bad either.
.  
GentleGiant : 11/8/2017 8:51 am : link
Quote:
Knicks have been so bad while he was here he hasn't really had a chance to fhis "clutch" muscles too often


I remember seeing his withdrawn face the last couple of years when the team was mounting a comeback and the ball would consistently go down low into the void only to be blocked, missed or turned into an offensive foul. He ended up losing confidence the couple of times the ball would come to him in crunch time. KP needed to be the man from day 1. He played the good soldier under Melo but now he has been released.

One thing I noticed last night again and should not be overlooked is how much he trusts Kanter behind him. So many times this season I've seen KP force a player to the middle basically funneling them toward Kanter. In the past he would have been goaded into a weak touch foul.

Great to see the rookie getting meaningful crunch time experience without sacrificing a win. Frank's gonna make mistakes on offense and he made them last night but hopefully he's learning and will ramp up his learning curve. It's pretty obvious that his defense is on another level and even superstar NBA players are having to adjust to it. Can't get by him with normal NBA moves.
Been saying it all season  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/8/2017 8:55 am : link
but the Knicks have to find a way to defend the perimeter better. They crash down and clog the paint leaving someone outside just freelancing for an open 3.
did anyone ever imagine that on November 8 the Knicks  
Victor in CT : 11/8/2017 9:08 am : link
would be the most interesting sports story in New York?
Couple notes:  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/8/2017 9:08 am : link
I'd love to see Hardaway and Ntilikina attack the rim more. Franky on the high pick and rolls. And Hardaway attack early to kind of get him into a rhythm.

Not looking forward to Noah at all returning on this team. It's gonna mess up the chemistry. His defense isn't what it once was, and he's a black hole on offense.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:10 am : link
not looking to "talk Melo" or even give Melo credit but I think the Knicks development of KP is what even the best of franchises would have done ie he wasn't going to step in and be "the star" from day 1. Even Simmons (having a huge rookie year) is helped by having so much young talent around him. While KP was very solid in ACB it's not as if he was viewed as a dominant monster.
Hardaway  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:11 am : link
still annoys me at times I have to be honest. He's had some really nice performances but at times he still reverts back to the player we had the first time. He gives a really mature/well thought out quote but sometimes he does look sort of sulky.
RE: Couple notes:  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2017 9:13 am : link
In comment 13681673 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
I'd love to see Hardaway and Ntilikina attack the rim more. Franky on the high pick and rolls. And Hardaway attack early to kind of get him into a rhythm.

Not looking forward to Noah at all returning on this team. It's gonna mess up the chemistry. His defense isn't what it once was, and he's a black hole on offense.


He's a willing and very good passer. Not a scorer, but plays with energy. I could see him backing up and doing a lot of the grunt work Kanter is doing.
RE: Couple notes:  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:16 am : link
In comment 13681673 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
I'd love to see Hardaway and Ntilikina attack the rim more. Franky on the high pick and rolls. And Hardaway attack early to kind of get him into a rhythm.

Not looking forward to Noah at all returning on this team. It's gonna mess up the chemistry. His defense isn't what it once was, and he's a black hole on offense.


Hardaway showed this in pre-season, hasn't shown it as much in-season. Frank has to improve his handle in order to get to the rim more. One of the major "red flags" while in France was how a guy who was so long. I'm not being hyper-critical, I believe he shot something like 53 TOTAL free throws during the regular season in france. pretty bonkers given the competition level.
THJR seems to..  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:17 am : link
have the ability to get to the rim and finish consistently. I agree that he needs to look to do that more often. That will just open up the outside shot for him and make him a more dangerous offensive player. Ive been happy with him for the most part, but he still needs to improve.
RE: Guys like Thomas...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13681602 Italianju said:
Quote:
look so much better on a competitive team when they can slide into a specific role. He is a hard worker who is a good defender. If thats all you ask of him he is going to look better.

I was thinking same thing about Lance. On a bad team, he's pretty useless. But on a team that only needs him to do little things he can have a role. Last night he was active on the boards which was important. Even when he was "good" two years ago, his rebounding sucked. You just can't have that from a guy that size. If he can improve in that area you trust him out there a little more.
Thomas  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:18 am : link
is still prone to some silly long 2's. Would like to see him cut down on those.
Hardaway is still mediocre at best  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 9:20 am : link
.
RE: RE: Couple notes:  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/8/2017 9:20 am : link
In comment 13681682 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:


He's a willing and very good passer. Not a scorer, but plays with energy. I could see him backing up and doing a lot of the grunt work Kanter is doing.


So is O'Quinn, who is much better offensively than Noah. I don't know, I know we can't cut Noah or trade that contract. Just pissed we are stuck with him.
I  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:23 am : link
mentioned this the other day but if you look at similar players to KOQ and what they got last season I'd be talking extension vs. dealing him if he's realistic.
Hardaway has shown  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 9:24 am : link
flashes of being the dynamic wing we need. When he's playing with speed and pushing the pace he helps the whole offense. they need that since Frank doesn't appear to be that guy.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:25 am : link
The Phoenix Suns have interest in trading for Jahlil Okafor.

The Suns don't currently have a roster spot available, but that could change once they part ways with Greg Monroe via trade or buyout.

Phoenix is rebuilding and presumably view Okafor as a potential reclamation project.

The Philadelphia 76ers declined their team option on Okafor's contract for 18-19 and are attempting to facilitate a trade to give him playing time elsewhere. While Okafor isn't under contract next season, the Suns have sufficient cap space to re-sign him to a long-term deal should he play well.

ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI/ESPN
Austin  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:26 am : link
Rivers (who is oddly quoted more than your standard scrub) implied Paul and Griffin didn't get along.
RE: I  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13681703 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
mentioned this the other day but if you look at similar players to KOQ and what they got last season I'd be talking extension vs. dealing him if he's realistic.

Is KOQ a starter or a big minute player on a good team? He very well may be. There's less cap room available next summer. Maybe that helps us. There's an argument for keeping him and McDermott if you can get them on reasonable (i.e. tradeadble) deals.
RE: RE: So much to enjoy about this team.  
Keith : 11/8/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13681641 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681629 Keith said:


Quote:


The teamwork and unselfishness is fun to watch. The only guy who doesn't always play unselfish is THJR. Loved seeing KP tell him to settle down last night. KP is a true leader. The guys all have defined roles, they know what they are and what they do and they all seem to look to get the ball to KP which is the opposite of last year. Early on, KP hit a few 3's and the garden was rockin. Next possession Jack takes it to the rim and could have taken a tear drop or stop and pop, but instead threw an ally oop to KP. Jack gets it, unlike our PG's of years past.

On a side note, it's funny to read about OKC's problems. Ball stopping, no flow to the offense, 1 on 1.



Cant really say tim is playing selfish when he is averaging 4 assists in this current stretch..averaging 3 assists for the season..

and last night took 14 shots and 50 percent from 3


I can. His shot selection isn't great. We don't need THJR to chuck shots and he chucks shots. Now when I say he's selfish, it's not like Melo selfish because he doesn't chuck a ton, but he still does it.
RE: Hardaway  
Keith : 11/8/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13681680 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
still annoys me at times I have to be honest. He's had some really nice performances but at times he still reverts back to the player we had the first time. He gives a really mature/well thought out quote but sometimes he does look sort of sulky.


Yep, I hate that aspect of THJR. He is way too demonstrative when someone else makes a mistake. Clyde has called him out on it.
Anyone else see the Thunder lose to the 1-8 Kings last night?  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/8/2017 9:29 am : link
The OK3 had a horrible night. Got outplayed by rookies. ISO heavy, no ball movement, contested jumpers. Melo effect.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13681717 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13681703 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


mentioned this the other day but if you look at similar players to KOQ and what they got last season I'd be talking extension vs. dealing him if he's realistic.


Is KOQ a starter or a big minute player on a good team? He very well may be. There's less cap room available next summer. Maybe that helps us. There's an argument for keeping him and McDermott if you can get them on reasonable (i.e. tradeadble) deals.


I am of the belief that yes, KOQ is can be a heavy minute guy on a good team (I admit I'm fully biased as I've wanted the Knicks to take a look at him dating back to his time in Orlando). But he's a big time locker room guy, close with KP, from Queens, he hustles, he has energy, he's physical. I think he's the kind of piece you try and keep if the price is reasonable. He's not Charles Oakley but he has some similar attributes. I think he'd represent a significant lose if we let him go. I don't see anyone else on the roster who would be able to replace him.
Obviously there is a long way to go...  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:31 am : link
but the knicks need to be careful with the roster construction if they really are going to be a team thats fighting for a playoff spot instead of a top 5 pick. We only kind of assumed that we could have a shot at another star in the draft, but that might not happen now. I agree id like to see them resign KOQ and maybe kanter and mcbuckets, but that would pretty much lock you into that roster for a couple more seasons. I mean maybe they could make some salary work this year to go out and sign someone but with capholds on these guys im not sure it gets us anywhere near a big name FA (and im not sure who that big name FA would even be this offseason). Realistically id expect KOQ, kanter, and Mcbuckets to combine for about 25 mill a year (at minimum). Add that to Noah, Lee, KP extension, THJR, etc... and that is your roster until the Noah/Lee deals expire.
Frank has only attempted  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 9:34 am : link
4 free throws so far. Forget making shots in the lane, I think he's only even BEEN in the lane like 5 times this season, lol. Of course he's still a baby and there's lots of time for him to grow.
RE: Obviously there is a long way to go...  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13681726 Italianju said:
Quote:
but the knicks need to be careful with the roster construction if they really are going to be a team thats fighting for a playoff spot instead of a top 5 pick. We only kind of assumed that we could have a shot at another star in the draft, but that might not happen now. I agree id like to see them resign KOQ and maybe kanter and mcbuckets, but that would pretty much lock you into that roster for a couple more seasons. I mean maybe they could make some salary work this year to go out and sign someone but with capholds on these guys im not sure it gets us anywhere near a big name FA (and im not sure who that big name FA would even be this offseason). Realistically id expect KOQ, kanter, and Mcbuckets to combine for about 25 mill a year (at minimum). Add that to Noah, Lee, KP extension, THJR, etc... and that is your roster until the Noah/Lee deals expire.


You are insanely low on that 25 million, like not even in the right ballpark. Kanter alone is making 18.6 if he opts in. The problem with looking at it "that way" is 8-10 million in todays NBA isn't getting you some huge star. O'Quinn fills a tangible hole this team really can use. Yeah, ideally Kanter is great, Willy improves and Kanter opts out and the Knicks have his replacement at a much, much lower cost but I don't think letting KOQ walk somehow helps the Knicks add better talent.
RE: Frank has only attempted  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13681729 Enzo said:
Quote:
4 free throws so far. Forget making shots in the lane, I think he's only even BEEN in the lane like 5 times this season, lol. Of course he's still a baby and there's lots of time for him to grow.


Handle is part of the equation. He has similar issues in France. It's going to be part of the development that will dictate "big time defender, okay offensive player" or "big time defender, average or better offensive player".
RE: RE: RE: So much to enjoy about this team.  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13681718 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13681641 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13681629 Keith said:


Quote:


The teamwork and unselfishness is fun to watch. The only guy who doesn't always play unselfish is THJR. Loved seeing KP tell him to settle down last night. KP is a true leader. The guys all have defined roles, they know what they are and what they do and they all seem to look to get the ball to KP which is the opposite of last year. Early on, KP hit a few 3's and the garden was rockin. Next possession Jack takes it to the rim and could have taken a tear drop or stop and pop, but instead threw an ally oop to KP. Jack gets it, unlike our PG's of years past.

On a side note, it's funny to read about OKC's problems. Ball stopping, no flow to the offense, 1 on 1.



Cant really say tim is playing selfish when he is averaging 4 assists in this current stretch..averaging 3 assists for the season..

and last night took 14 shots and 50 percent from 3



I can. His shot selection isn't great. We don't need THJR to chuck shots and he chucks shots. Now when I say he's selfish, it's not like Melo selfish because he doesn't chuck a ton, but he still does it.


i agree he needs to stop taking those pull up 3s if he is not on but he is doing other things on the court...

20 4 and 4 during this stretch while shooting 45 percent is pretty damn good..
RE: RE: Frank has only attempted  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:38 am : link
In comment 13681735 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13681729 Enzo said:


Quote:


4 free throws so far. Forget making shots in the lane, I think he's only even BEEN in the lane like 5 times this season, lol. Of course he's still a baby and there's lots of time for him to grow.



Handle is part of the equation. He has similar issues in France. It's going to be part of the development that will dictate "big time defender, okay offensive player" or "big time defender, average or better offensive player".


there are times when he can turn the corner and grt into the lane and instead he stops and passes..

i notived one play he got almost all the way tp the hoop and then dropped it off to mcdermott instead...
i know how much..  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:39 am : link
kanter gets this year but if he opts out i doubt anyone is giving him 18 per. And if so then the knicks should let him walk. I know i was low as i expect kanter to be around 15 at least and KOQ and McDermott around the MLE or so 6 per at least.

And i wasnt saying just KOQ, but people want to resign everyone and im just saying if you did that then you are locking into that roster. Every million counts so depending on what we do with certain players the money to KOQ could hurt you. Again im fine with bringing him back, i was more pointing out the knicks are going to have be creative and possibly let a guy walk (kanter) if the numbers get too high. Too often NBA teams just max out everyone and im hoping the knicks are smarter then that (Scary thought)
Anyone else think the lowest low of the season  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/8/2017 9:39 am : link
so far was seeing Kanter getting crossed up at the free throw line by Dwight Howard?
RE: Hardaway is still mediocre at best  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:39 am : link
In comment 13681696 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


durong this stretch 20 4 and 4 on 45 percent shooting is mediocre?

17 3 and 3 for the season
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:40 am : link
not even "bashing" the kid but like I said, last season 32 games played 29 free throws attempted! 29! He took more 3's than FT's. I think it's a valid "concern" until it isn't
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Obviously there is a long way to go...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13681726 Italianju said:
Quote:
but the knicks need to be careful with the roster construction if they really are going to be a team thats fighting for a playoff spot instead of a top 5 pick. We only kind of assumed that we could have a shot at another star in the draft, but that might not happen now. I agree id like to see them resign KOQ and maybe kanter and mcbuckets, but that would pretty much lock you into that roster for a couple more seasons. I mean maybe they could make some salary work this year to go out and sign someone but with capholds on these guys im not sure it gets us anywhere near a big name FA (and im not sure who that big name FA would even be this offseason). Realistically id expect KOQ, kanter, and Mcbuckets to combine for about 25 mill a year (at minimum). Add that to Noah, Lee, KP extension, THJR, etc... and that is your roster until the Noah/Lee deals expire.

Phil/Mills fucked us with regard to cap space in the short term - and they squandered the opportunity to do a proper rebuild around KP with regard to accumulating assets. So maybe it's not the worst idea in the world to keep some of these guys especially since many of them (Kanter, McDermott, KOQ) are still relatively young.

i really with the NBA would adjust the cap hold....  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:42 am : link
i get when a guy is making like 4 mill that you have to bump up the cap hold, but when a guy like Kanter is making 18 mill whats the point of getting a cap hold if the cap hold is going to be like 30 mill.
RE: I'm  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:43 am : link
In comment 13681748 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not even "bashing" the kid but like I said, last season 32 games played 29 free throws attempted! 29! He took more 3's than FT's. I think it's a valid "concern" until it isn't Link - ( New Window )


he hesitates a lot, it is almost like he is afraid to try and go get his
The Noah...  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:44 am : link
deal is such a killer for us. If you took that off the books then the knicks might have a shot at adding a solid player this offseason. I can live with the THJR deal since he is young and producing. ANd i dont love the Lee or Thomas deals, but they are reasonable. Stupid Noah.
RE: The Noah...  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:45 am : link
In comment 13681758 Italianju said:
Quote:
deal is such a killer for us. If you took that off the books then the knicks might have a shot at adding a solid player this offseason. I can live with the THJR deal since he is young and producing. ANd i dont love the Lee or Thomas deals, but they are reasonable. Stupid Noah.


lee is tradeable and lance's 4th year is non guaranteed.
Lee  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:46 am : link
is a "must trade" to me. His salary isn't bad per se but he's not going to be here by the time the Knicks are "really good", he's 32 and an average-ish player who is now out of position.
yeah i mean i dont hate those deals....  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:47 am : link
and most of this doesnt matter since there arent a bunch of superstar FA's this year that the knicks are going to be in on. They are probably still a year or two away from being a real FA destination again (unless KP can play like this for 82 games).
RE: The Noah...  
Jay on the Island : 11/8/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13681758 Italianju said:
Quote:
deal is such a killer for us. If you took that off the books then the knicks might have a shot at adding a solid player this offseason. I can live with the THJR deal since he is young and producing. ANd i dont love the Lee or Thomas deals, but they are reasonable. Stupid Noah.

I think the Knicks could trade Lee and Willy in return for a solid 3. I wanted to trade Kanter earlier but he seems to work well with KP. I would like to see them extend O'Quinn for 3 years 25 million if that gets it done.
RE: Lee  
Jay on the Island : 11/8/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13681767 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a "must trade" to me. His salary isn't bad per se but he's not going to be here by the time the Knicks are "really good", he's 32 and an average-ish player who is now out of position.

Absolutely. They need to trade him soon while he still has some value. They need to get a legitimate 3 so that TH can go back to his more natural position.
RE: yeah i mean i dont hate those deals....  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13681769 Italianju said:
Quote:
and most of this doesnt matter since there arent a bunch of superstar FA's this year that the knicks are going to be in on. They are probably still a year or two away from being a real FA destination again (unless KP can play like this for 82 games).


players are starting to take notice, paul tweeted yesterday: porzingis sheesh..

it is weird to have a player, young player that other players are noticing
RE: RE: Lee  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13681774 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
They need to get a legitimate 3 so that TH can go back to his more natural position.


The bench?
agree on Lee  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 10:15 am : link
Hopefully they can find a home for him. It's not an awful contract, but it's not cheap either (2/25 left after this season). He could help just about any contender.
trade chips come Feb  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 10:22 am : link
Definitely Lee.

Likely KOQ.

Maybe McDermott.

Not bad.
RE: trade chips come Feb  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13681836 Pep22 said:
Quote:
Definitely Lee.

Likely KOQ.

Maybe McDermott.

Not bad.


i am not trading either mcdermott or oquinn
People are being way too hard on THJ.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2017 10:35 am : link
I'm generally positive about what I've seen from him thus far. Makes no sense to get hung up on his contract at this point. My lone criticism of him is he needs to corral his tendency to heat check after he makes a shot.
Here is the KOQ context  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 10:36 am : link
He has an opt out after the season, so if you plan on budgeting ~8mm per for him, then okay (means a Willy trade).

But if not, he's a great trade chip to a contender and the way he's playing he could yield something like Patrick McCaw, DJ Wilson etc. if those teams have a need for a very good rotational big.

I'd like to keep DMcD  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 10:38 am : link
too but you never know when an opportunity may present itself to get a young asset via trade especially given that he's a RFA after this season and that shooting is at all time premium. He could be in demand come Feb
I've been expecting them to move  
Phil in LA : 11/8/2017 10:39 am : link
Lee since last season ended. Was thinking they should trade KOQ, but he may be too valuable.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:39 am : link
argue if Willy doesn't see significant playing time at all this year it's safe to suggest the Knicks don't think very much of him going forward. He's not 19 years old, if we are post deadline and he's still not playing I think it represents they have soured on him.
Lee  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:40 am : link
10.4 PER, 0.52 WS/48. If you get a solid offer you move him. He's not great, he's not cheap and he's out of position.
RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13681870 Pep22 said:
Quote:
too but you never know when an opportunity may present itself to get a young asset via trade especially given that he's a RFA after this season and that shooting is at all time premium. He could be in demand come Feb


isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn
RE: RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13681886 nygiants16 said:
Quote:



isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn


Problem is you don't know what the "right price" is until it's too late to get something for them.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:50 am : link
love to be able to trust Jabari Parker (it's been suggested they may move him once he gets healthy). But he's the kind of guy we get giddy about and then he tears his ACL for the third time.
RE: RE: RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13681891 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681886 nygiants16 said:


Quote:





isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn



Problem is you don't know what the "right price" is until it's too late to get something for them.


but if this team is a playoff team (still to early to tell) you are not going to be trading off pkayers at the deadline, just not going to happen sends the wrong message to the players
RE: I'd  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13681894 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
love to be able to trust Jabari Parker (it's been suggested they may move him once he gets healthy). But he's the kind of guy we get giddy about and then he tears his ACL for the third time.


willy for jabari..
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13681900 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681891 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 13681886 nygiants16 said:


Quote:





isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn



Problem is you don't know what the "right price" is until it's too late to get something for them.



but if this team is a playoff team (still to early to tell) you are not going to be trading off pkayers at the deadline, just not going to happen sends the wrong message to the players

there's a difference between playoff team and contender. They're not contending anytime soon so if selling off pieces makes the most sense then you do it. In the east, 35 wins might make you a "playoff team". That doesn't mean you turn down opportunities to clear redundant players and cap space and/or acquire young assets.
enzo i am not talking about a guy like lee  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 11:06 am : link
i am more talking about oquinn and mcdermott..

RE: RE: I'd  
Jon in NYC : 11/8/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13681901 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681894 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


love to be able to trust Jabari Parker (it's been suggested they may move him once he gets healthy). But he's the kind of guy we get giddy about and then he tears his ACL for the third time.



willy for jabari..


I would support this. Especially if we could package Lee as well. Jabari when healthy was balling out.
Jabari is immensely talented  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 11:22 am : link
But he's frustrating because he refuses to use his size. Guy wants to play like he's a 6'4" shooting guard.
RE: enzo i am not talking about a guy like lee  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13681929 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i am more talking about oquinn and mcdermott..

if the asset coming back is a good one then you seriously think about it. Our asset pile is pretty weak. If a star player came available - we don't have much to offer besides Wily...unless you want to start dealing off future first rounders, which nobody wants.
Lee and Kanter (expiring)  
Dave on the UWS : 11/8/2017 11:27 am : link
are the two logical trade chips. I think Perry/Mills can see a path towards moving forward, how the roster "should" look with KP carrying the freight. Guys like KOQ and McDermott are good rotation players. The 3rd big time guy to put with KP and Frank has to be a SF (money is already tied up with Hardaway at SG). If the team moves forward using the draft to build roster depth and attracting a top notch SF in free agency might be the way to go if this team makes more strides this year than anticipated. We all thought tank was the way to go. Now it doesn't appear (happily) to be the case. Perry did a good job with the two pieces (and a draft choice) he got for Melo.
RE: RE: trade chips come Feb  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13681840 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681836 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Definitely Lee.

Likely KOQ.

Maybe McDermott.

Not bad.



i am not trading either mcdermott or oquinn


Agreed, these are quality role players on a good team. The KNicks have the bones to be that team. They need their young players to continue to get better and they need to add a little talent, but I'm not trading any of those guys at this point. Obviously the season can turn quickly and that thought can change, but as of now, no way.
I'm seeing it the same way as a lot of others...  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 11:39 am : link
McDermott has been a pleasant surprise - I hope he's found a home here. Among the many problems with the Knicks in recent years has been a dearth of lights-out shooters who can space the floor. McBuckets and, hopefully, Dotson, can be real weapons going forward. As for O'Quinn, he's clearly earned the minutes. I was among those going crazy about Willy's role, but you gotta give credit to KOQ.

As of right now I see KOQ and McBuckets as future pieces, and Kanter and Lee as trade bait.
Why in the world would you trade Kanter??  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:42 am : link
He's a perfect compliment to KP and he's showing that with a bigger role and more minutes, he can be a very good starting center. He's only 25 years old and his defense is getting better. At this point in time, I'm not moving him. Obviously, if the season turns for the worst, that could change.
Kanter is playing like a man obsessed  
Canton : 11/8/2017 11:43 am : link
Obviously he likes it here in NY and doesn't want to lose the opportunity given to him, with a starting role. I definitely see him not opting out.

And no way do we trade him atm. He helps KP's game immensely. He cleans up. Everyone rags on his defense but he is trying. As we all know, want-to and effort hides many warts one has athletically, on defense. And he's showing that effort in spades. (Also helps having a QB like Jack putting him in the right spots)

I don't want to see him go, I love his game. His rebounding (especially on the offensive side) gets us many second chance buckets. The chemistry we have right now is cause everyone is doing their part.

That's why I'm not looking forward to Noah's return. I don't want him to upset that balance. That fine line between winning and losing.
Hornacek has done a superb job.  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:45 am : link
I do not see Noah getting minutes other than the minutes that Willy gets which is almost nothing. He cannot justify giving Noah any of Kanters or KOQ's minutes.
it is not even the shooting with mcdermott  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 11:45 am : link
it is the cutting and finishing at the rim, no idea he was that athletic...

maybe the knicks were just what he needed
I agree  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 11:50 am : link
EK isn't opting out b/c he's unlikely to get a big pay day given the kind of player he is and the way the league is headed. I also think he loves NY.
McDermott could be a starter.  
manh george : 11/8/2017 11:57 am : link
His teammates love him, and say that he has been playing lights out in practice. That either provides an opportunity to trade Lee, or to have him back up both the 2 and 3.

Quote:
Dougie McBuckets, Kyle OQuinn bellowed.

Thats what he do, Tim Hardaway Jr. added. He gets buckets since he was born.

Doug McDermott wasnt just a fan favorite Tuesday night. He was also the toast of the Knicks locker room after he produced his best performance in blue and orange, scoring 20 points on just eight field-goal attempts and keying a come-from-behind 118-113 victory over the Hornets at the Garden on Tuesday night.


He's long for a 3, shoots spectacularly, moves without the ball, and plays pretty good defense. In fact, crazy as this may sound, right now, I think he is more valuable overall, all by himself, than Melo. His shooting percentage is spectacularly higher, and he isn't nearly as likely to get injured.
On that latter note...  
manh george : 11/8/2017 12:05 pm : link
Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.
Maybe "trade bait" was a little harsh for Kanter.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 12:05 pm : link
I'm just not completely sold on him being a part of things long-term. So far so good though.
At this point,  
Keith : 11/8/2017 12:11 pm : link
only players I'd trade(that would actually have a market) are Lee and Willy. I wouldn't trade them just to trade them though.
RE: Hornacek has done a superb job.  
batman11 : 11/8/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13682011 Keith said:
Quote:
I do not see Noah getting minutes other than the minutes that Willy gets which is almost nothing. He cannot justify giving Noah any of Kanters or KOQ's minutes.


I really, really hope Hornacek doesn't mess up the chemistry they have going right now to get Noah minutes.
..  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 12:54 pm : link
Am I the only one who didnt realize Tyreke Evans has been beastly this season?
Keep  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 12:55 pm : link
KOQ. Do it.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: On that latter note...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13682047 manh george said:
Quote:
Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.

I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.
RE: Lee  
Earl the goat : 11/8/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13681767 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a "must trade" to me. His salary isn't bad per se but he's not going to be here by the time the Knicks are "really good", he's 32 and an average-ish player who is now out of position.


I said last night. McDermott should be getting Lees minutes and should be starting small forward
I  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 1:04 pm : link
totally get wanting to keep most of these guys but Courtney Lee (no knock on him) 100% should be moved with a solid offer at the deadline. A more extended look at McBuckets, Dotson, moving salary. Not shitting on the guy at all but I dont see any reason to keep him (beyond the obvious getting bad offers for him).
Nice article on KP's sudden transformation into a true superstar  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 1:22 pm : link
This stood out to me:

Quote:
Then realize that, in terms of straight up points per possession, Porzingis is the 7th most effective post player in the damn league through 9 games. You could even construct an argument that hes been THE most effective post player in the league so far. Only Joel Embiid has higher volume with comparible efficiency, but our lord and savior is turning the ball over on only 6.6% of his post ups. Meanwhile, Embiids post ups result in turnovers nearly 22% of the time.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13682141 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.


Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.
why are the suns interested in okafor?  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 1:27 pm : link
..
I liked the way Hornacek  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/8/2017 1:33 pm : link
kept in the second unit last night in the fourth quarter when they were having success instead of just bringing in KP and EK. Shows a nice feel for the game.
RE: RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13682197 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13682141 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.



Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.

your assessment of both Melo and the trade is pretty fucking terrible.
RE: RE: RE: On that latter note...  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13682197 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13682141 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.



Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.


I was watching some of the OKC game last night, what a contrast to this years Knick team. Maybe they get more used to each other end begin to gel, but they looked awful. Mello is a real coach killer.

It is really amazing how much of a better clutch shooter KP is than Melo ever was for the Knicks. I never could stand Reggie Miller because of how he so consistently would kill the Knicks with those clutch shots nearing the end of games. KP has that in him plus everything else he brings to the game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13682217 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13682197 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 13682141 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.



Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.


your assessment of both Melo and the trade is pretty fucking terrible.


Really:

Melo is a willing passer, huh? Capable defender? Athletic enough to do anything in transition other than be a trail shooter? McDermott and Kanter haven't been productive? Getting that package as opposed to Ryan Anderson wasn't great? Its a pure coincidence that the second that ISO crap is out the door, others thrive?

Unless you know nothing about the sport, the answer is a definitive NO to all of the above.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13682228 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13682217 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682197 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 13682141 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.



Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.


your assessment of both Melo and the trade is pretty fucking terrible.



Really:

Melo is a willing passer, huh? Capable defender? Athletic enough to do anything in transition other than be a trail shooter? McDermott and Kanter haven't been productive? Getting that package as opposed to Ryan Anderson wasn't great? Its a pure coincidence that the second that ISO crap is out the door, others thrive?

Unless you know nothing about the sport, the answer is a definitive NO to all of the above.

sorry, but anyone who knows even a tiny bit about the sport wouldn't say something as dumb as "Melo is neither a good rebounder". Can't take your bullshit seriously after that. As for the Melo trade...just because the return was something other then Ryan Anderson doesn't make it "great". Once again the folks around here set the bar for this front office pretty damn low.
The reason Patrick started out as a ball of fire  
Phil in LA : 11/8/2017 2:01 pm : link
was that Bernard was hurt, so he was the number one option from the go. He was also older than KP. KP was the second or third option till this year.
true  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 2:07 pm : link
Patrick was 23 as a rookie. It was a different environment back then.
RE: The reason Patrick started out as a ball of fire  
giants#1 : 11/8/2017 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13682250 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
was that Bernard was hurt, so he was the number one option from the go. He was also older than KP. KP was the second or third option till this year.


Nothing against Ewing, but he was also 23 his rookie season. KP is still only 22.
Melo  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 2:07 pm : link
is a bad athlete for the SF position (better off as a 4, which KP handles far better than Melo). He's also got a poor work rate on the court (unless he's shooting). He is an unwilling passer. Bad defender. Transition no-show.

He's an isolation player who is adequate in terms of scoring efficiency. But the multitude of weaknesses in his game gives any of his teams a challenge to make up for all his deficiencies.

Good riddance.
I think Perry deserves a lot of credit for the Melo trade.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 2:10 pm : link
No knock on Melo, but just getting him to expand his list to include OKC was a big win. Two useful 25-year-olds on decent deals and a second rounder that will be top 35 is pretty good work. And I was disappointed when the trade was made, so there's no "I told you so" coming from me.
Damn these guys are going to blow my budget with the Mrs.  
Stu11 : 11/8/2017 2:31 pm : link
wasn't planning on hitting games this year with the daughter, but that will have to change. Honestly who starts in the NBA is irrelevant. Its who plays the 4th quarter. I think what was so horrific in the Melo era no matter who was coaching was the end game offense. It was stand around, get the ball to Melo and try and guess where he was going to hoist the 20+ footer from. The last few nights they have really run a variety of sets, pretty much all leading to good shots or a good probability of getting to the line. Who knows where this leads, but its been damn fun to watch. Forget about the points, last minute shots, blocks etc...KP's most impressive accomplishment is doing all of this without 1 godamn hair moving on his head.
RE: RE: The reason Patrick started out as a ball of fire  
Stu11 : 11/8/2017 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13682259 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13682250 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


was that Bernard was hurt, so he was the number one option from the go. He was also older than KP. KP was the second or third option till this year.



Nothing against Ewing, but he was also 23 his rookie season. KP is still only 22.

Not to mention Patrick played 30-35 minutes a night for 4 years in a league and level of play in the Big East that was extraordinary at that time. That was not the NCAA of today. You had a level of ball with guys staying at least 3 years and a group of legendary coaches that dwarfs anything we are seeing right now as a prep league. The Euro league KP played in is very good, but he only played 15 minutes or so a night.
Plenty of talking heads on radio  
idiotsavant : 11/8/2017 2:44 pm : link
Are saying what I have been saying since the get-go before the winning run.

Keep this roster as intact as possible and get rid of Noah.

Revisit ideas next year.

Let coach coach.
RE: I think Perry deserves a lot of credit for the Melo trade.  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13682266 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
No knock on Melo, but just getting him to expand his list to include OKC was a big win. Two useful 25-year-olds on decent deals and a second rounder that will be top 35 is pretty good work. And I was disappointed when the trade was made, so there's no "I told you so" coming from me.




Oddly enough it may have been Carmelo's 10 year old son who had more to do with his accepting OKC than anyone.


Quote:
The night before the trade went down, OKC wasnt even in the picture, Anthony said. I had already talked to my agent and my team and said, Lets get ready to go back to New York My son comes in the room and says, Youre going to training camp Monday? I said, Yeah, thats good for you. Im not going away from the family. He said, I wish you would go to OKC. Can you just tell them you want to go to OKC? Out the blue.

I said, Why? He said, I just like you out there. I think its better for you. Im like, All right, son. Whatever. But in my mind, I was like, Damn, maybe he is saying something. The next day I get the call, There might be something with OKC. I said, Take it. If theyre serious about pulling the trigger and the Knicks want to do it, do it. Then my son comes back and says, Dad, just tell them you want to go to OKC.

"As soon as he said that he left and went to [basketball] practice, and then the trade happened, Melo said. I dont know what to make from that. Im still trying to figure that out. Obviously, he knows what he knows. He is very smart about the game of basketball now.





Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I think Perry deserves a lot of credit for the Melo trade.  
Del Shofner : 11/8/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13682341 steve in ky said:
Quote:

Oddly enough it may have been Carmelo's 10 year old son who had more to do with his accepting OKC than anyone.

Quote:

The night before the trade went down, OKC wasnt even in the picture, Anthony said. I had already talked to my agent and my team and said, Lets get ready to go back to New York My son comes in the room and says, Youre going to training camp Monday? I said, Yeah, thats good for you. Im not going away from the family. He said, I wish you would go to OKC. Can you just tell them you want to go to OKC? Out the blue."

Link - ( New Window )


Melo's son is a Knicks fan who reads BBI?

Seriously, that's a crazy story - had not heard it.
RE: Plenty of talking heads on radio  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13682326 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Are saying what I have been saying since the get-go before the winning run.

Keep this roster as intact as possible and get rid of Noah.

Revisit ideas next year.

Let coach coach.

Nobody is taking Noah. You keep saying this. It's not an option otherwise potential Noah trades would fill up 90% of BBI's Knicks threads.
Noah  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:14 pm : link
is 33 in 2 months, has played 142/246 team games over the last 3 seasons. He's so bad at the FT you can't have out there late in games and he's owed both years (3) and money (54).
if only Isiah were running a team somewhere  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 3:15 pm : link
It's so crazy, it just might work!
Willy time?  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:16 pm : link
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The Knicks say Kristaps Porzingis is questionable for tonight's game against Orlando with a sprained left ankle and contused right elbow.
Rest  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:21 pm : link
KP
RE: Rest  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13682396 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
KP


he was questionable yesterday also, they have a couple of days off after tonight, can rest then
So with what we have now seen  
larryflower37 : 11/8/2017 3:23 pm : link
What's everyone's win total now?

I am thrilled at the current run but is it sub stainable ?

I would be thrilled with .500 and the 8th seed.
Health  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:36 pm : link
as always is the X-factor. Despite depth at the 5 they are very thin at other spots.
He had the ankle last night and played  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 3:38 pm : link
so unless he injured it further, which wasn't apparent, I am guessing he plays.
Tonight  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:47 pm : link
would be a good night to give Frank serious burn. Magic are are beyond thin/crappy at the point.
RE: So with what we have now seen  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13682404 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
What's everyone's win total now?

I am thrilled at the current run but is it sub stainable ?

I would be thrilled with .500 and the 8th seed.


Let's just have a fun season without expectations, IMO. KP averaging 30 a game is probably not sustainable over the remaining 72 games. It's no way to build a contender, but as trashy as this conference is, they should make the playoffs.
Magic  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:58 pm : link
at PG

Shelvin Mack... the backup 1 is probably going to be out of position Terrence Ross or Fourier
RE: Frank has only attempted  
djm : 11/8/2017 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13681729 Enzo said:
Quote:
4 free throws so far. Forget making shots in the lane, I think he's only even BEEN in the lane like 5 times this season, lol. Of course he's still a baby and there's lots of time for him to grow.


He looks awkward shooting the free throws let alone getting to the free throw line. He will work on that.
He just turned 19  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 4:07 pm : link
Getting comfortable driving to the hoop against NFL big men will take a little time and that's to be expected.

He at least went for it once last night but ended up getting the charge do to his inexperience with doing just that. He will get there.
RE: He just turned 19  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13682552 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Getting comfortable driving to the hoop against NFL big men will take a little time and that's to be expected.

He at least went for it once last night but ended up getting the charge do to his inexperience with doing just that. He will get there.


It's not just his age. It's also his ball handling. As I noted above he took 29 total free throws last season in France and the competition was flat out garbage (#7 league in the world per Fran).
Just  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:10 pm : link
for comparisons sake he was 11th on his own team in France last year (0.9 FTA per game)
Link - ( New Window )
I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about contracts  
djm : 11/8/2017 4:11 pm : link
or future contracts or all this talk of having to make a trade. Don't do ANYTHING other than trading shit away we don't want, IE Noah.

First off, all this talk of pending FAs coming here is more or less a pipe dream even if the KNicks become the garden of eden from a perception stand point. How often does that rare special younger player avail himself? Rarely. And the KNicks are developing their own blend of special players AND more often than not, if a team has a chance to add a great player that wants to come the team finds a way to make the salary structure work. Honestly, I think we should worry about that player if and when. Enough of this moving heaven and earth to mold the cap into a more pliable construct.

Don't re-sign anyone you don't want. Don't overpay anyone that isn't worth the overpay. If you like Kanter, offer him a deal we're good with. If he leaves, fine, Same with KOQ.

Don't worry about 2019. Just let this team marinate and develop. We don't have to sign anyone next summer and when Noah and Lee come off the Knicks will be in a position to replace them with younger better players. Works for me.
Melo WAS a very good rebounder  
manh george : 11/8/2017 4:15 pm : link
He's still good, but may be declining. 5.8 pg for the season, but admittedly, 10.0 for 3 games in November. Does that offset mediocre-at-best defense, a 41% shooting average (yuck), 32.8% from the three (yuckier), and the continuing ball-stopping tendencies? Not in my league. And, of course he is 33 and relatively brittle. Odds on making it through a season without at least one shoulder or knee injury are small--and I guarantee that he won't get younger. Will his shooting stats get better? Why would they?

When I compare "value" on someone like McDermott, I am looking at current contributional capacity--which I expect to get better as the team gets used to him and vice versa-- age, and cost. Cost: $2.5 million versus $24.6 million. Melo at this point in his career is a spectacular overpay, which means negative net worth. Good to get Kantor, McDermott and the 35th pick or so for a player with negative net worth.
RE: I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about contracts  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13682562 djm said:
Quote:
or future contracts or all this talk of having to make a trade. Don't do ANYTHING other than trading shit away we don't want, IE Noah.

First off, all this talk of pending FAs coming here is more or less a pipe dream even if the KNicks become the garden of eden from a perception stand point. How often does that rare special younger player avail himself? Rarely. And the KNicks are developing their own blend of special players AND more often than not, if a team has a chance to add a great player that wants to come the team finds a way to make the salary structure work. Honestly, I think we should worry about that player if and when. Enough of this moving heaven and earth to mold the cap into a more pliable construct.

Don't re-sign anyone you don't want. Don't overpay anyone that isn't worth the overpay. If you like Kanter, offer him a deal we're good with. If he leaves, fine, Same with KOQ.

Don't worry about 2019. Just let this team marinate and develop. We don't have to sign anyone next summer and when Noah and Lee come off the Knicks will be in a position to replace them with younger better players. Works for me.


But there IS value to moving a guy like Lee. It opens up PT to see what guys like McDermott (extended role) and Dotson (role and experience) can do. I don't think people realize how mediocre Courtney Lee is. In my view seeing what McDermott/Dotson can do has legit value. I'd deal lee for a late first or even a recent draftee who needs a new team.
re: Melo  
giants#1 : 11/8/2017 4:22 pm : link
With a lower usage this year and presumably less attention from the other teams D due to PG and Westbrook playing alongside him, his shooting % could be higher this year.
ESPN  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:24 pm : link
has some net stat called ESPN rating

Giannis is #1 56.1
KP is 7th 44.9

2nd best Knick is Kanter 29.2 (50th in the NBA)
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:35 pm : link
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#Cavs Derrick Rose now has eight more turnovers (19) than assists (11) on the season
Lee  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 5:10 pm : link
for Mirotic... boom!
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Lee  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 5:32 pm : link
In comment 13682706 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for Mirotic... boom! Link - ( New Window )


That article says Bills can't trade him until Jan 15th so he and Portis probably work it out by then.
no kp tonight  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 5:35 pm : link
and right on cue michael kay ripping him, saying this is why he will never be a superstar
syas if he plays the next game  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 5:36 pm : link
something sketchy about him not playing tonight
Sketchy  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 5:45 pm : link
Lol. You wake up and your body doesnt respond the way you had hoped. Maybe, just maybe KP knows his body more than fat turd Michael Kay and may also realize its a long season and missing a game vs. Orlando now is better than 3 weeks of playing through injury in March
RE: Sketchy  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 5:46 pm : link
In comment 13682759 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Lol. You wake up and your body doesnt respond the way you had hoped. Maybe, just maybe KP knows his body more than fat turd Michael Kay and may also realize its a long season and missing a game vs. Orlando now is better than 3 weeks of playing through injury in March


says if he is really hurt he would miss the next 2 games..

maybe just maybe knicks see a chance to give him 3 days off
BREAKING NEWS...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2017 5:46 pm : link
Michael Kay said something stupid!!!!
Have they announced he is out or is he still questionable?  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 5:47 pm : link
.
KP  
Keith : 11/8/2017 5:49 pm : link
Out
Kay and Co.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 5:49 pm : link
have been obsessed about KP and his injury risk. How many guys play 80+ games per season? And players of all shapes and sizes suffer the same types of basketball injuries - Gordon Hayward and Jeremy Lin come to mind as the most recent, serious cases. We all knew it would take a few years for him to develop physically. So far, no chronic issues have emerged, which is all that matters.
No KP just means  
Canton : 11/8/2017 5:51 pm : link
We get more Lance Thomas!

Can't wait....
Is Dwyane Wade a superstar?  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 5:51 pm : link
Kyrie? Chris Paul? Anthony Davis? Guys get hurt.
if  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 5:57 pm : link
This were a home game and I had tickets Id be so upset lol (jinxing myself so Kuz drops a historic 47 on Orlando tonight)
RE: RE: I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about contracts  
djm : 11/8/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13682575 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13682562 djm said:


Quote:


or future contracts or all this talk of having to make a trade. Don't do ANYTHING other than trading shit away we don't want, IE Noah.

First off, all this talk of pending FAs coming here is more or less a pipe dream even if the KNicks become the garden of eden from a perception stand point. How often does that rare special younger player avail himself? Rarely. And the KNicks are developing their own blend of special players AND more often than not, if a team has a chance to add a great player that wants to come the team finds a way to make the salary structure work. Honestly, I think we should worry about that player if and when. Enough of this moving heaven and earth to mold the cap into a more pliable construct.

Don't re-sign anyone you don't want. Don't overpay anyone that isn't worth the overpay. If you like Kanter, offer him a deal we're good with. If he leaves, fine, Same with KOQ.

Don't worry about 2019. Just let this team marinate and develop. We don't have to sign anyone next summer and when Noah and Lee come off the Knicks will be in a position to replace them with younger better players. Works for me.



But there IS value to moving a guy like Lee. It opens up PT to see what guys like McDermott (extended role) and Dotson (role and experience) can do. I don't think people realize how mediocre Courtney Lee is. In my view seeing what McDermott/Dotson can do has legit value. I'd deal lee for a late first or even a recent draftee who needs a new team.


Agree about lee. He's not Noah from a liability standpoint but I'd move him.
RE: no kp tonight  
djm : 11/8/2017 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13682742 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and right on cue michael kay ripping him, saying this is why he will never be a superstar


I refuse to believe that Kay's gigantic head said something that stupid. Fully aware that he is THAT stupid but he couldn't have said that. No way.

Ok I believe you.
RE: RE: no kp tonight  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13682777 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13682742 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and right on cue michael kay ripping him, saying this is why he will never be a superstar



I refuse to believe that Kay's gigantic head said something that stupid. Fully aware that he is THAT stupid but he couldn't have said that. No way.

Ok I believe you.


he doubled down saying he is basically faking if he plays saturday
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