He has a lot of football left. Give him a decent line, an offensive system that isn't broken, and a head coach who isn't mentally ill and he will re-emerge as one of the game's best.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
likely at least be here next year Hopefully with a real HC and offensive system to see if he can still perform. Personally, I think he can. Right now this team is a total mess.
2018 could be a great comeback year for Eli. He always puts in the work, but this time he really will have something to prove. Lots of additional incentive. He will have a healthy OBJ, a seasoned Engram, and hopefully an improved offensive line. Eye of the Tiger!
interesting character in the play called the NY Giants. He is the protagonist to some and the antagonist to others. Ben McAdoo has made a very tough play in trying to push the narrative that the QB has to play better, in some cases, to overcome the poor play of others. This was started last off season and has continued through 8 games of this year. Is Manning playing GREAT? No! Is he playing at a high level? No! But, he is playing well enough and the issues around some of his play are just downright poor play by others and now missing pieces across the offensive board.
While I do not subscribe to the contract and cap make it impossible for Manning to be dealt or cut, I do think if turning the team around quickly is in play then he can't be cut or traded. If you are starting FRESH then the cap means nothing. You will eat the dead money, play younger cheaper options for a year and rebuild.
If you want a quick turn around then Manning's contract makes it such that he has to stay and the direction and focus of the team is to fill needs on the Oline, RB and LB with some tweaks to WR and DB.
Back to the play NY Giants, Ben McAdoo is trying to right a ship that he clearly steered the wrong way. His attempt to push focus on the helmsman (Manning) did not endear himself with the fans and I suspect with the team.
Eli will be the QB in 2018. The Giants may draft a guy #1 in April but I suspect we will see 1, 2 and possibly 3 draft picks on the online. That is the place for the fastest return.
##one disagreement with the article. He mentioned coaches would be able to see what Webb is or isn't in practice. Considering how our coaches continually misread how our practices went vs how we perform in games, I would be less than inclined to trust their judgment on that one..##
screwed that up for years. Give him a decent offensive line with an above average running game and then see what happens.
I firmly believe if that had been the case this year, we might be 7-1 instead of 1-7. Those on this site and others will rue the day Eli leaves. To do what he has done and not complain about a porous offensive line and a running game that some high schools could do better is a testament to his personality and character.
I understand people are angry, so am I, but focus your anger on those who deserve it and Eli is not one of those who deserves it. The guy who has orchestrated this mess is Jerry Reese. I am not sure even Mr. Slickback can be evaluated fairly based on the crap he has been given on the offensive line, LB and running back.
RE: There is only one way to fairly evaluate Eli and the Giants have Â
screwed that up for years. Give him a decent offensive line with an above average running game and then see what happens.
I firmly believe if that had been the case this year, we might be 7-1 instead of 1-7. Those on this site and others will rue the day Eli leaves. To do what he has done and not complain about a porous offensive line and a running game that some high schools could do better is a testament to his personality and character.
I understand people are angry, so am I, but focus your anger on those who deserve it and Eli is not one of those who deserves it. The guy who has orchestrated this mess is Jerry Reese. I am not sure even Mr. Slickback can be evaluated fairly based on the crap he has been given on the offensive line, LB and running back.
+1.
We've been in every game..even Sunday.. had Eli hit open receivers for a TD ...and 3rd and 33..... Every game you could identify 2-3 plays...including Eli's..that turned the game around.
Re: the article:
Excellent analysis...third party perspective to unclog the pro-con on Eli.
is coaches' ability to evaluate backup QB's in practice and preseason. Neither tells you how they react to complex defensive schemes and pressure.
That said, Graziano does make a number of strong arguments for why Eli will be the QB for the near future. The one thing that I don't always think about is the NTC. I agree with him that finishing as a Giant is important to Eli, so he is unlikely to approve any trade.
The most important game in the last 2 years (as it relates to Eli) Â
For all the talk about how Beckham and the defense "carries" him, under the bright lights, there was Eli throwing darts all over the place.
Too bad no one else showed up that day.
My personal hope is that camp opens next season with a new regime, Eli under center for another season with Webb and another top draft pick waiting in the wings.
From the start of next season on, if Eli should falter, his consecutive games streak, nor any other past achievement is considered, only his current performance.
If the team feels it is in its best interest to cut Eli loose and bring in a new stud QB, then it should be done. I'm not saying that is the right move, but it is nonsense to say he is owed the right to end his career with the Giants. Why is it a business for other players who no longer are worth their salaries but something else for Eli?
And I also chuckle at all those who say that if only Eli had a really good line and running game, he would succeed. You can say that about 90% of the QBs in the league.
Facts are they don't have a good line, and may not have even one really good lineman. It's unlikely that will change next season and even less so with Eli's salary taking up cap space. His immobility makes him perhaps the worst guy to operate behind a bad line. We have seen rookie QBs who are great athletes who come in and play pretty well. If the Giants can get one, letting Eli go may make sense.
What I like about the article is it allows for some Grey as opposed to the black and white thinking that happens here.
If you criticize him your in the idiot camp and want him gone and how dare you.......truth is he deserves criticism and is not the player he was. The Giants have to take his replacement if afforded the opp. But it does not mean he shouldn't start next year and he can keep the future qb on bench.
Those that suggest trades and the like....nonsense. The trade market is entirely limited.
And those that rip him incessantly - as bad as the camp that defends him vigorously and can't take any criticism.
Personally I feel this is where BBI has gone wrong. I tend to the grey ground with him.
will fail or at least massively underachieve unless the OL is fixed. He still has the arm strength and smarts, but is almost entirely immobile. Fix the OL, or you'll get more of the same next year. The problem is that Reese cannot evaluate OL, and has severely damaged the last half of Eli's career.
In addition to having a subpar OL, Eli has journeyman WRs, little run game, and a bad defense. Eli has carried the Giants before, and can do so again, but the current state of the team is too much even for him to overcome.
Eli has made some poor throws, and missed others as we saw last Sunday, but he's being pummeled. I wonder if the hits are affecting his accuracy even when he has time to throw. Somebody rightly said that he looks like David Carr.
My guess is that Eli stays in 2018, and that the Giants pay him the $5M next year. After that, who knows?
I'm okay with the article, except for two minor issues... Â
Coaches can make quality judgments on players based on practice and preseason game performance.
Guess how many snaps Webb is getting in practice in the Giants offense right now? None. Unless you count the mental snaps he gets on the sidelines. You cannot possibly evaluate his progress that way.
In the preseason they saw him only at the end of the first game for a short drive and at the end of the Patriots game, which was already under control and where the Giants were trying to run out the clock.
Coaches cannot even get enough practice time with starters under the new CBA, forget about the time they get with the 3rd string QB.
Furthermore, if the owners are considering changes to the coaching staff and front office, they would be fools to rely on the viewpoints of those who have seen him in practice so far. They need to get some film on him for the new GM and HC so that the new leadership can make their own evaluations on him.
and
Quote:
Webb isn't such an important prospect to the Giants that they need to bench one of the greatest and most successful players in their history just to see what he can do. If he's good enough to be Manning's successor, he'll get his chance to show that sooner or later.
If Webb wasn't viewed as an important enough prospect they shouldn't have used a third rounder on him in a year they thought they were playoff bound. I think the team was and is high on him. I wouldn't call it "benching" Eli as much as resting him. When the season is out of hand, the worst thing that could happen is losing Eli in a meaningless half of a meaningless game in a lost season. Give Eli the start if you want, but giving Webb significant snaps is critical for both his development and to provide an opportunity to evaluate him.
There's definitely going to be fluidity of thought and action next offseason. Where are they picking in the first round, who's running the show, who's available when they're on the clock, is a trade down for multiple assets the strongest move, can they quickly upgrade the OL via UFA, etc.
Given Eli's presence and the $ invested in the defense, my money is on them trying to right the ship culturally and in terms of confidence in leadership, and then load up for one last run or two before they try to turn it over to a blue chip QB from the '18 draft in 2019.
If not, or there's big leadership changes from the top down then they've got a considerable pile of assets they could look into trading, pile up the draft picks and strip the salary cap in a start over.
RE: Eli is the Giants starting QB, at least through 2018. Â
He has a lot of football left. Give him a decent line, an offensive system that isn't broken, and a head coach who isn't mentally ill and he will re-emerge as one of the game's best.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
You can’t have watched Eli this year and think he has 3-4 years left
Is Graziano saying because Brees and Brady did it at an older age Eli can. Both were always superior quarterbacks and their skills haven’t declined like Eli’s.
Yes, Eli will be the QB in 2018 barring something unprecedented.
But the whole "Eli had 3 or 4 years left" thing is wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst. It gets repeated ad nauseam by some around here, and for my money they are every but as annoying and ridiculous as the "cut Eli" crowd.
He likely will start one more year, and unless he has a stellar year that will be his last in blue.
The chance that Eli isn't the QB next year is near zero, but the chance he is the QB 3 years from now is also near zero.
any time going forward Eli is easily dumped from a cap POV. So the only real question is whether Eli represents the best option at QB. If his play (continues to?) declines and If you can draft a franchise prospect, it makes oodles of sense to go in that direction. The only reason not to draft a franchise prospect is if you think Eli still has more than 2 years left in him. You can even keep Eli for one more year in that scenario.
The only caveat is if Eli is still putting people in the stands. Another year of mediocre QB play and losing record, and people aren't going to give a damn about going to the game regardless of the name Eli Manning.
You do NOT let Eli call the shots if his play is in decline. Letting Eli go out on his own terms is a noble sentiment, but completely disregards the team and the fans who want a winning record.
RE: How about let the professionals evaluate whether he's done or not? Â
There are economic realities in the short term for this team that unbiased evaluation lean towards not tearing it down.
There is cap investment in veteran players across the board. There is also cap space, and some flexibility. But the big ticket players aren't easily moved (nor should they be).
There are talented players all over this roster on both sides of the ball.
Ironically the oline has improved as Reese bet. In a way seeing the oline improve without Richburg helps make the decision making in investment there. If the teams opts to retain Pugh, a high draft pick and mid-tier free agent could round out the line.
The consensus evaluation and the past tells us 37 year old quarterbacks need more help than young quarterbacks.
Manning has shown he doesn't have the skills to do it alone like he did in 2011, and that will never return. Ever.
But with an above average line and above average skill players he can win most of the games.
3-4 might be a stretch but 2 more years for certain Â
Eli is the Giants starting QB, at least through 2018.
NYGmen58 : 9:47 am : link : reply
He has a lot of football left. Give him a decent line, an offensive system that isn't broken, and a head coach who isn't mentally ill and he will re-emerge as one of the game's best.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
Call me crazy but trading OBJ would garner a slew of picks
and with Eli's huge contract coming to an end we could do a hell of a rebuild next season . OBJ is one injury away from
being a #2 WR if he looses any of that speed .
rebuild the Oline and get a Top notch RB gamble on Webb
and we will have plenty of cap space going forward .
RE: There is only one way to fairly evaluate Eli and the Giants have Â
screwed that up for years. Give him a decent offensive line with an above average running game and then see what happens.
In other words, we'd have to give him Dak Prescott's supporting cast while we pay him more than Tom Brady? Got it.
I want to repeat (because it seems to get misunderstood) that I do not want Eli to be benched, cut or traded. I just don't understand how some don't see the fact that part of why you pay megabucks to a franchise QB is because they can singlehandedly cover up some of your team's flaws. If they can't, then they're really just a game manager. We've seen teams win with game manager QBs, so this isn't necessarily an indictment, but it's very difficult to win while paying a game manager the sort of money that typically goes to a franchise QB.
RE: 3-4 might be a stretch but 2 more years for certain Â
Eli is the Giants starting QB, at least through 2018.
NYGmen58 : 9:47 am : link : reply
He has a lot of football left. Give him a decent line, an offensive system that isn't broken, and a head coach who isn't mentally ill and he will re-emerge as one of the game's best.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
Call me crazy but trading OBJ would garner a slew of picks
and with Eli's huge contract coming to an end we could do a hell of a rebuild next season . OBJ is one injury away from
being a #2 WR if he looses any of that speed .
rebuild the Oline and get a Top notch RB gamble on Webb
and we will have plenty of cap space going forward .
All those draft picks you get for Odell have the chance to be a bust and are also an injury away from never playing a down.
This “we can’t keep/pay Odell because he might get hurt” line of thinking is nonsense. Our next QB could play one down, tear knee up and never be the same.
RE: RE: There is only one way to fairly evaluate Eli and the Giants have Â
screwed that up for years. Give him a decent offensive line with an above average running game and then see what happens.
In other words, we'd have to give him Dak Prescott's supporting cast while we pay him more than Tom Brady? Got it.
I want to repeat (because it seems to get misunderstood) that I do not want Eli to be benched, cut or traded. I just don't understand how some don't see the fact that part of why you pay megabucks to a franchise QB is because they can singlehandedly cover up some of your team's flaws. If they can't, then they're really just a game manager. We've seen teams win with game manager QBs, so this isn't necessarily an indictment, but it's very difficult to win while paying a game manager the sort of money that typically goes to a franchise QB.
+1. QBs with $25 million cap hits should be able to cover up some of your deficiencies.
RE: How about let the professionals evaluate whether he's done or not? Â
In other words, we'd have to give him Dak Prescott's supporting cast while we pay him more than Tom Brady? Got it.
I want to repeat (because it seems to get misunderstood) that I do not want Eli to be benched, cut or traded. I just don't understand how some don't see the fact that part of why you pay megabucks to a franchise QB is because they can singlehandedly cover up some of your team's flaws. If they can't, then they're really just a game manager. We've seen teams win with game manager QBs, so this isn't necessarily an indictment, but it's very difficult to win while paying a game manager the sort of money that typically goes to a franchise QB.
First of all, "decent" OL and above-average running game doesn't necessarily equal Dak Prescott's supporting cast. There is a middle ground between what Dak has and what Eli has to deal with.
You make an interesting point about game manager QB's. However, in today's NFL, veteran "game manager" QB's get paid like franchise QB's. Alex Smith and Sam Bradford are each close to Eli in salary. Hell, freaking Mike Glennon makes $14 mill! Joe Flacco is the highest paid QB in the league. Everyone points to Tom Brady taking less, but even he has the Pats forking over millions for his TB12 bullshit. It is how the league operates, veteran starters get paid, whether they are franchise QB's or not.
RE: RE: How about let the professionals evaluate whether he's done or not? Â
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
It’s a business. It’s by bush league to cut a guy. Give me a break.
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
It’s a business. It’s by bush league to cut a guy. Give me a break.
It’s a business? YOU are so invested you refer to that business as “we”. You just want to be argumentative. Troll. Go away.
He starts here until a new qb shows he can do better. There's no rush. Even if the Giants draft a hot shot qb next April there doesn't have to be any rush. Let things develop organically here over the next 2 years. Fuck the media and their forced storylines. Just add qb talent and let things shake out. Eli might have another run in him if the team happens to resemble something more than the dumpster fire it is now.
Dont trade him. Don't release him. Don't do anything except add talent. Find an architect and coaching staff. Let things bud. Done. Any other plan would be one of desperation.
This is an open and shut case. Eli doesn't want to go anywhere. Fine.
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
It’s a business. It’s by bush league to cut a guy. Give me a break.
It’s a business? YOU are so invested you refer to that business as “we”. You just want to be argumentative. Troll. Go away.
You must be the troll, since you’re so hung up on a word than the point.
I don't think that Eli deserves any more respect than all the other Â
players who made the championships possible and were dumped when they showed signs of deterioration due to age or injury. With all those other players, "football is a business." Eli has been well paid.
The more Eli plays for this sorry team, the weaker his career stats get. The problem is that the great weakness of the offense is pass protection, and this weakness hurts the most with an immobile quarterback.
With a younger, scrambling quarterback, like Dak for instance, the rush can be avoided or even turned to the team's advantage. Dak has rushed three or four times in every game and averaged eight yards per carry, fumbled once and scored three touchdowns.
Simms respect? The guy who gets no respect is Hostetler. The backup QB wins it all to the surprise of almost everyone. Given the closeness of those games against the Niners and Bills, down to the last play, is it fair to say that there is a good chance that the Giants do not win all if not for Hostetler's combination of mobility and taking punishing hits?
Maybe it's because I'm older, but I'd like to see the Giants competitive again before I croak. The first step in remaking a team is quarterback. I see no point in playing Manning if it gets in the way of finding his replacement. His skills have deteriorated due to wear and getting pummeled by defensive linemen the last few years. That's not going to change. Their current bunch of offensive linemen will never provide the protection that Eli needs.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
I can't believe Dan Graziano wrote that article.
While I do not subscribe to the contract and cap make it impossible for Manning to be dealt or cut, I do think if turning the team around quickly is in play then he can't be cut or traded. If you are starting FRESH then the cap means nothing. You will eat the dead money, play younger cheaper options for a year and rebuild.
If you want a quick turn around then Manning's contract makes it such that he has to stay and the direction and focus of the team is to fill needs on the Oline, RB and LB with some tweaks to WR and DB.
Back to the play NY Giants, Ben McAdoo is trying to right a ship that he clearly steered the wrong way. His attempt to push focus on the helmsman (Manning) did not endear himself with the fans and I suspect with the team.
Eli will be the QB in 2018. The Giants may draft a guy #1 in April but I suspect we will see 1, 2 and possibly 3 draft picks on the online. That is the place for the fastest return.
##one disagreement with the article. He mentioned coaches would be able to see what Webb is or isn't in practice. Considering how our coaches continually misread how our practices went vs how we perform in games, I would be less than inclined to trust their judgment on that one..##
Honestly this article probably summed up the situation best - and our ccolllective discussion on the site.
I firmly believe if that had been the case this year, we might be 7-1 instead of 1-7. Those on this site and others will rue the day Eli leaves. To do what he has done and not complain about a porous offensive line and a running game that some high schools could do better is a testament to his personality and character.
I understand people are angry, so am I, but focus your anger on those who deserve it and Eli is not one of those who deserves it. The guy who has orchestrated this mess is Jerry Reese. I am not sure even Mr. Slickback can be evaluated fairly based on the crap he has been given on the offensive line, LB and running back.
I firmly believe if that had been the case this year, we might be 7-1 instead of 1-7. Those on this site and others will rue the day Eli leaves. To do what he has done and not complain about a porous offensive line and a running game that some high schools could do better is a testament to his personality and character.
I understand people are angry, so am I, but focus your anger on those who deserve it and Eli is not one of those who deserves it. The guy who has orchestrated this mess is Jerry Reese. I am not sure even Mr. Slickback can be evaluated fairly based on the crap he has been given on the offensive line, LB and running back.
+1.
We've been in every game..even Sunday.. had Eli hit open receivers for a TD ...and 3rd and 33..... Every game you could identify 2-3 plays...including Eli's..that turned the game around.
Re: the article:
Excellent analysis...third party perspective to unclog the pro-con on Eli.
That said, Graziano does make a number of strong arguments for why Eli will be the QB for the near future. The one thing that I don't always think about is the NTC. I agree with him that finishing as a Giant is important to Eli, so he is unlikely to approve any trade.
For all the talk about how Beckham and the defense "carries" him, under the bright lights, there was Eli throwing darts all over the place.
Too bad no one else showed up that day.
My personal hope is that camp opens next season with a new regime, Eli under center for another season with Webb and another top draft pick waiting in the wings.
From the start of next season on, if Eli should falter, his consecutive games streak, nor any other past achievement is considered, only his current performance.
And I also chuckle at all those who say that if only Eli had a really good line and running game, he would succeed. You can say that about 90% of the QBs in the league.
Facts are they don't have a good line, and may not have even one really good lineman. It's unlikely that will change next season and even less so with Eli's salary taking up cap space. His immobility makes him perhaps the worst guy to operate behind a bad line. We have seen rookie QBs who are great athletes who come in and play pretty well. If the Giants can get one, letting Eli go may make sense.
If you criticize him your in the idiot camp and want him gone and how dare you.......truth is he deserves criticism and is not the player he was. The Giants have to take his replacement if afforded the opp. But it does not mean he shouldn't start next year and he can keep the future qb on bench.
Those that suggest trades and the like....nonsense. The trade market is entirely limited.
And those that rip him incessantly - as bad as the camp that defends him vigorously and can't take any criticism.
Personally I feel this is where BBI has gone wrong. I tend to the grey ground with him.
In addition to having a subpar OL, Eli has journeyman WRs, little run game, and a bad defense. Eli has carried the Giants before, and can do so again, but the current state of the team is too much even for him to overcome.
Eli has made some poor throws, and missed others as we saw last Sunday, but he's being pummeled. I wonder if the hits are affecting his accuracy even when he has time to throw. Somebody rightly said that he looks like David Carr.
My guess is that Eli stays in 2018, and that the Giants pay him the $5M next year. After that, who knows?
Guess how many snaps Webb is getting in practice in the Giants offense right now? None. Unless you count the mental snaps he gets on the sidelines. You cannot possibly evaluate his progress that way.
In the preseason they saw him only at the end of the first game for a short drive and at the end of the Patriots game, which was already under control and where the Giants were trying to run out the clock.
Coaches cannot even get enough practice time with starters under the new CBA, forget about the time they get with the 3rd string QB.
Furthermore, if the owners are considering changes to the coaching staff and front office, they would be fools to rely on the viewpoints of those who have seen him in practice so far. They need to get some film on him for the new GM and HC so that the new leadership can make their own evaluations on him.
and
If Webb wasn't viewed as an important enough prospect they shouldn't have used a third rounder on him in a year they thought they were playoff bound. I think the team was and is high on him. I wouldn't call it "benching" Eli as much as resting him. When the season is out of hand, the worst thing that could happen is losing Eli in a meaningless half of a meaningless game in a lost season. Give Eli the start if you want, but giving Webb significant snaps is critical for both his development and to provide an opportunity to evaluate him.
Given Eli's presence and the $ invested in the defense, my money is on them trying to right the ship culturally and in terms of confidence in leadership, and then load up for one last run or two before they try to turn it over to a blue chip QB from the '18 draft in 2019.
If not, or there's big leadership changes from the top down then they've got a considerable pile of assets they could look into trading, pile up the draft picks and strip the salary cap in a start over.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
You can’t have watched Eli this year and think he has 3-4 years left
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
But the whole "Eli had 3 or 4 years left" thing is wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst. It gets repeated ad nauseam by some around here, and for my money they are every but as annoying and ridiculous as the "cut Eli" crowd.
He likely will start one more year, and unless he has a stellar year that will be his last in blue.
The chance that Eli isn't the QB next year is near zero, but the chance he is the QB 3 years from now is also near zero.
The only caveat is if Eli is still putting people in the stands. Another year of mediocre QB play and losing record, and people aren't going to give a damn about going to the game regardless of the name Eli Manning.
You do NOT let Eli call the shots if his play is in decline. Letting Eli go out on his own terms is a noble sentiment, but completely disregards the team and the fans who want a winning record.
It’s pretty clear his skills are in decline
There is cap investment in veteran players across the board. There is also cap space, and some flexibility. But the big ticket players aren't easily moved (nor should they be).
There are talented players all over this roster on both sides of the ball.
Ironically the oline has improved as Reese bet. In a way seeing the oline improve without Richburg helps make the decision making in investment there. If the teams opts to retain Pugh, a high draft pick and mid-tier free agent could round out the line.
The consensus evaluation and the past tells us 37 year old quarterbacks need more help than young quarterbacks.
Manning has shown he doesn't have the skills to do it alone like he did in 2011, and that will never return. Ever.
But with an above average line and above average skill players he can win most of the games.
NYGmen58 : 9:47 am : link : reply
He has a lot of football left. Give him a decent line, an offensive system that isn't broken, and a head coach who isn't mentally ill and he will re-emerge as one of the game's best.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
Call me crazy but trading OBJ would garner a slew of picks
and with Eli's huge contract coming to an end we could do a hell of a rebuild next season . OBJ is one injury away from
being a #2 WR if he looses any of that speed .
rebuild the Oline and get a Top notch RB gamble on Webb
and we will have plenty of cap space going forward .
In other words, we'd have to give him Dak Prescott's supporting cast while we pay him more than Tom Brady? Got it.
I want to repeat (because it seems to get misunderstood) that I do not want Eli to be benched, cut or traded. I just don't understand how some don't see the fact that part of why you pay megabucks to a franchise QB is because they can singlehandedly cover up some of your team's flaws. If they can't, then they're really just a game manager. We've seen teams win with game manager QBs, so this isn't necessarily an indictment, but it's very difficult to win while paying a game manager the sort of money that typically goes to a franchise QB.
NYGmen58 : 9:47 am : link : reply
He has a lot of football left. Give him a decent line, an offensive system that isn't broken, and a head coach who isn't mentally ill and he will re-emerge as one of the game's best.
Guy has at least 3-4 years of good football left in him.
Call me crazy but trading OBJ would garner a slew of picks
and with Eli's huge contract coming to an end we could do a hell of a rebuild next season . OBJ is one injury away from
being a #2 WR if he looses any of that speed .
rebuild the Oline and get a Top notch RB gamble on Webb
and we will have plenty of cap space going forward .
All those draft picks you get for Odell have the chance to be a bust and are also an injury away from never playing a down.
This “we can’t keep/pay Odell because he might get hurt” line of thinking is nonsense. Our next QB could play one down, tear knee up and never be the same.
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screwed that up for years. Give him a decent offensive line with an above average running game and then see what happens.
In other words, we'd have to give him Dak Prescott's supporting cast while we pay him more than Tom Brady? Got it.
I want to repeat (because it seems to get misunderstood) that I do not want Eli to be benched, cut or traded. I just don't understand how some don't see the fact that part of why you pay megabucks to a franchise QB is because they can singlehandedly cover up some of your team's flaws. If they can't, then they're really just a game manager. We've seen teams win with game manager QBs, so this isn't necessarily an indictment, but it's very difficult to win while paying a game manager the sort of money that typically goes to a franchise QB.
+1. QBs with $25 million cap hits should be able to cover up some of your deficiencies.
And if they do and determine that they think he's done, you won't flip your shit on here?
In other words, we'd have to give him Dak Prescott's supporting cast while we pay him more than Tom Brady? Got it.
I want to repeat (because it seems to get misunderstood) that I do not want Eli to be benched, cut or traded. I just don't understand how some don't see the fact that part of why you pay megabucks to a franchise QB is because they can singlehandedly cover up some of your team's flaws. If they can't, then they're really just a game manager. We've seen teams win with game manager QBs, so this isn't necessarily an indictment, but it's very difficult to win while paying a game manager the sort of money that typically goes to a franchise QB.
First of all, "decent" OL and above-average running game doesn't necessarily equal Dak Prescott's supporting cast. There is a middle ground between what Dak has and what Eli has to deal with.
You make an interesting point about game manager QB's. However, in today's NFL, veteran "game manager" QB's get paid like franchise QB's. Alex Smith and Sam Bradford are each close to Eli in salary. Hell, freaking Mike Glennon makes $14 mill! Joe Flacco is the highest paid QB in the league. Everyone points to Tom Brady taking less, but even he has the Pats forking over millions for his TB12 bullshit. It is how the league operates, veteran starters get paid, whether they are franchise QB's or not.
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instead of doing it from your couch and stating it as a fact...
And if they do and determine that they think he's done, you won't flip your shit on here?
No, I won't. I actually think I've been fairly reasonable throughout, by the way, on the handling of the end of Eli Manning's career.
Interestingly enough, the article that this thread is about pretty much backs up every single point I've been making on here for weeks.
The future coach and GM can do whatever they deem best for the franchise.
Such as will be needed to rationalize both the roster and the staff!
Seems to me that such an effort may be different in nature.... as opposed to "the great qb search".
Maybe 2019 is the year for the second project, the great qb search. Once we know what we are....we will know which one to.get.
I mean, skip school end up in thr oil fields. Don't clean and end up scrubbing layers.
Take easy answers or try short cuts on roster, end up needing a comprehensive whole organisation project.
Let's not leave an irrational roster and unready staff in place and try to insert a rookie qb into that.
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This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
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There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
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In comment 13685040 baadbill said:
Quote:
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
It’s a business. It’s by bush league to cut a guy. Give me a break.
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In comment 13685053 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685040 baadbill said:
Quote:
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
It’s a business. It’s by bush league to cut a guy. Give me a break.
It’s a business? YOU are so invested you refer to that business as “we”. You just want to be argumentative. Troll. Go away.
Dont trade him. Don't release him. Don't do anything except add talent. Find an architect and coaching staff. Let things bud. Done. Any other plan would be one of desperation.
This is an open and shut case. Eli doesn't want to go anywhere. Fine.
Quote:
In comment 13685560 baadbill said:
Quote:
In comment 13685053 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685040 baadbill said:
Quote:
This quote in particular stirred some angry emotional memories of how the Giants treated Phil Simms:
Quote:
There aren't many players in the league who've earned the right to go out on their own terms with their teams, but Manning is one.
They fucked it up with Simms. Let's hope they show more class this time around.
So we should be sentimental at the expense of the team? Talk about putting one player above the team
First of all, stop with the "we" shit. You don't own or work for the team.
Secondly, I didn't say anything about "at the expense of the team." All I ask is that the Giants not treat Manning the way they treated Simms. Simms deserved better than to be cut. And Manning does too. The Giants don't want him? Then tell him so before the season but don't cut him during pre-season. That's bush league and a complete lack of class. I always thought the Giants were a classy organization until they did what they did to Simms. Pure assholes.
It’s a business. It’s by bush league to cut a guy. Give me a break.
It’s a business? YOU are so invested you refer to that business as “we”. You just want to be argumentative. Troll. Go away.
You must be the troll, since you’re so hung up on a word than the point.
The more Eli plays for this sorry team, the weaker his career stats get. The problem is that the great weakness of the offense is pass protection, and this weakness hurts the most with an immobile quarterback.
With a younger, scrambling quarterback, like Dak for instance, the rush can be avoided or even turned to the team's advantage. Dak has rushed three or four times in every game and averaged eight yards per carry, fumbled once and scored three touchdowns.
Simms respect? The guy who gets no respect is Hostetler. The backup QB wins it all to the surprise of almost everyone. Given the closeness of those games against the Niners and Bills, down to the last play, is it fair to say that there is a good chance that the Giants do not win all if not for Hostetler's combination of mobility and taking punishing hits?
Maybe it's because I'm older, but I'd like to see the Giants competitive again before I croak. The first step in remaking a team is quarterback. I see no point in playing Manning if it gets in the way of finding his replacement. His skills have deteriorated due to wear and getting pummeled by defensive linemen the last few years. That's not going to change. Their current bunch of offensive linemen will never provide the protection that Eli needs.