I've respected the work of Jon Stewert for some time, and his takedown of Crossfire 13 years ago is still one of the best comedy-trumps-political commentary moments in my adult life. He's missed from the Daily show dearly. But...
This clip from over a year ago shows an audience member questioning Stewert about what role fellow comedians might have in responding to sexual assault allegations in the industry - and his reaction is just so disgustingly typical. Reminds me of the barbara walters moment with corey feldman in some ways. "You're talking about an entire industry here" - get out of here with this shit.
Now I'm not comparing pedophilia to public masturbation - what I'm really driving at is the form and effect of Stewert's reaction, his facial expression, and laughing it off - is this knee jerk urge to protect, defend, and play dumb about the reality of the situation when confronted. Maybe he never knew about it - fine, that's fair - but his 'performance' through body language and answer to joke off the question as though the question was coming from a place of lunacy is now looking like a really shallow, thoughtless, and damaging pattern of behavior. After Cosby, I would think treating the question like a joke and essentially attacking the credibility of the source would not be seen as best practices.
It's tough because you can't just take everyone at their word who sends out a tweet, but on the other hand in this climate how can you ignore them? Social media is giving a voice, and community almost, certainly a support network to leverage these claims and get the necessary attention behind it. how many more stories are we going to hear about? How many charges are yet to be filed?
But the knee jerk reaction to protect the forward movement of that gravy train with all its faults - really just disgusting. look at his face, read his eyes. You will never get a better closeup of someone 'acting' like you're asking them a crazy question to avoid an answer.
crazy times
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Hold on brb...need to talk to my sister about something ;-)
As a comedian I actually used to really appreciate Jon Stewart. When I was younger and he was on MTV with his show he was a breath of fresh air in an old fuddy duddy genre.
Even the early Stewart Daily Show was pretty good, and he picked up where Kilborn left off and really ran with it to make it pretty good at first. Then it got REAL left REAL quick- and it just turned me off to it.
As a comedian Gutfeld isn't even in the same conversation with Jon Stewart, but the point is that watch either of their shows with a critical open mind and it becomes wholly apparent within 5 minutes that it is a thinly veiled political mouthpiece for each side pretending to be comedy.
What is scary is that many young people (present company all excluded of course) watch these shows as entertainment and don't even realize the propaganda they are being exposed to. It's a comment/joke followed by studio audience laughter over and over and over.
Also worth noting that although what Louis CK did to those 5 women was horrible, he did not sexually assault anyone. I definitely think it's important for us to not start lumping all forms of sexual misconduct together.
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In comment 13685148 Heisenberg said:
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way? Ok. Great thread.
he probably did know - the first article about this came out in 2012. his response was he didn't know.
many of these people are all managed by the same crew. Aziz Ansari refused to talk about it in 2015 when interviewed and asked. Link - ( New Window )
So the working assumption here is that Jon Stewart has read every article that's out about everything? Or maybe you guys can detect lies in youtube videos. I can't. It's pretty plausible to me that he didn't know about it. Or at least, plausible enough to pass muster.
It's just weird to take this CK thing and try to turn it into something about Stewart based on this answer. Great thread.
Agreed. This thread looks like the article, a slam piece on Stewart because he is Louis C.K.'s friend. And yes I find him to be very funny!
Also worth noting that although what Louis CK did to those 5 women was horrible, he did not sexually assault anyone. I definitely think it's important for us to not start lumping all forms of sexual misconduct together.
It's probably more accurate to say we have no idea the extent of what Louis CK has done. if you read the NY Times piece he called one of the victims to apologize and it was the wrong victim and wrong thing. He was apologizing for pushing her into a bathroom (where presumably some other incident took place) and she was a person whom he asked if she wanted to see him masturbate and she said no.
I don't think it's always fair to make assumptions about things people have alleged to have done, but when you call someone and apologize to them for something and it's the wrong person and wrong incident, I think the assumptions about not knowing the extent of the incidents are warranted.
And to your point though, the NY Times article is very clear to use the phrase Sexual Misconduct. Not assault (which misconduct can in fact be).
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In comment 13685139 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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I never ever respected any of the political commentators who masqueraded as comedians, and Jon Stewart was the leader of the pack. If you want to be a comedian then be a comedian. Make people laugh with jokes. If you want your jokes to be political at times I am all for it.
When the comedy show (either left or right) becomes a constant and daily hit job on one side of the political spectrum then it's not a comedy show, it's a mouthpiece for an agenda.
Remember the Daily Show with Craig Kilborn? It was hilarious because it was just funny for the sake of being funny; not trying to inject comedy into politics.
Lol. You are the one person who thinks TDS with Kilborn was anywhere near Stewarts level.
Does Maher "masquerade as a comedian"? Is he a political commentator? Who says they have to be mutually exclusive - you?
Stewart's point was always that he was a comedy show on a comedy channel. Political comedy is nothing new, and there have been political cartoons for centuries.
Why don't you just come clean and admit you don't like his politics, so you found a bone to pick with him.
As for Stewart, who knows what he did or didn't know, but he hasn't exactly been in the stand-up game for a really really long time.
Yes the comedy world is insular, but the stand-up world is an even more insular subsect of that.
I loved the Kilborn daily show because it was JUST FUNNY. It didn't have an agenda. It was just abusing everyone- kind of like how SNL used to be.
Once again it's not about the politics. Have any of you ever come across the Greg Gutfeld Show on Fox News (I think it's on the weekend). It's BRUTAL. Cringe worthy just like The Daily Show. They parade this weird panel out there and call it comedy but it's not- it's like Hannity with a live audience and a light up LAUGH sign.
Why does everyone immediately get so sensitive to their political position? What kind of life is that to walk around all day going out of your way looking to be offended by someone's politics?
This isn't a partisan political post. Jon Stewart is a funny comedian but I don't appreciate masquerading a one sided political satirical hit piece show as a "Comedy show". That's just stupid. Maher is just a pompous asswipe- politics aside.
Regardless, there's a diff between "not funny" and "don't respect". You should read up on what Stewart did for WTC first responders.
And you never answered the question about why the commentator and comedian are mutually exclusive. If it's not your taste, that's all good! But you've restricted yourself to a very small subsect of comedians (who came out of the standup circles at least)
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with Stewart.
I was very critical of Trevor Noah at first. I think he's slowly finding his footing. He's not the must-watch that Stewart was at the end, but Jon Stewart wasn't a must-watch when he took over from Kilborn, either. All these latenight hosts grow in the job if they last long enough.
Though as somebody said about college football coaches: You don't want to be the guy who follows the legend. You want to be the guy who follows the guy who follows the legend. Trevor might turn out to be a placeholder until they get Samantha Bee...
Agree, but I think Noah has grown by leaps and bounds. I've got qualms with the current daily show
Jfc some people cannot divorce themselves from their politics.
I never watched gutfields show so I cannot comment on it. But apparently, Stewart, Noah, Maher, Colbert, bee, desus and mero, Seth Meyers, and Jimmy Kimmel are all "propaganda" bc they have a POV. Gimme a break dude
Sonic. Are you saying that all those shows you listed have -the same - point of view?
Sounds weird from a distance.
Everyone has a point of view that needs to be either or.
There is no such thing as comedy. It's all political satire.
Imagine a late night host that came out and slammed a political view and then said "if you think that's stupid, look at this idiot on the other side".
All market and ratings.
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What is scary is that many young people (present company all excluded of course) watch these shows as entertainment and don't even realize the propaganda they are being exposed to. It's a comment/joke followed by studio audience laughter over and over and over.
In fairness, I don't think too many young people watch the pseudo-comedy on Fox News.
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
Agreed. He was a HUGE advocate for 9/11 first responders and his post daily show career I believe has involved a big project rescuing dogs.
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
You are so right - ( New Window )
Is making fun of politicians for the at times remarkably dumb things that come out of their mouths what passes for political analysis?
Anyway, what would the counter argument be if he just said: "Hey, you know what? It is a political show." What would people say? Both sides already have entire networks designated as their own echo chambers. What difference does it make?
p.s.--And people say time travel is impossible!
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
You’re just…wrong. Sheer ignorance. Stewart’s Daily Show regularly went after the left, including in fully deserved circumstances like this. He positively eviscerated CNN all the time…it was one of his favorite targets. Was his show’s target practice asymmetrical? Of course…he/his writers are liberals but more importantly the contemporary right just offers so God damn much material. Also, when did he "cower behind" in the manner you're suggesting. Are you basing that on that one Crossfire appearance in 2005? It sounds like you're just making shit up.
I imagine it’s frustrating for you that comedy based satire is far better suited from a liberal or at least non right-wing perspective. That’s because comedy which punches down is generally cringeworthy. Moreover a comedian’s mind is almost always fundamentally irreverent which is mostly antithetical to stuffy traditionalists.
Satirizing the more inane elements of the left is eminently doable (South Park, Daily Show, Portlandia), but it’s virtually without exception about the funny first and the political 2nd. Purposeful “conservative” humor or targeting the left merely for the sake of symmetry is guaranteed to be awful. I can't think of a single example of it being pulled off.
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On the OP: Stewart can be very smug, no doubt. His reaction was it seems less dismissive of the possibility of his friend acting inappropriately than it was a pavlovian rejection of the legitimacy of Gawker, Twitter, et al hearsay (and it sorta came out of left field based on the context of the wider discussion). Turned out to be true of course, but it’s apparent he wasn’t hearing “credible” as he listened to the commenter. Once these accusations have become vetted, Stewart like the rest of us no doubt takes them seriously, especially now that the dam of unwelcome sexual aggression has fully burst.
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
Persecution complex much?
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Sonic. Are you saying that all those shows you listed have -the same - point of view?
Sounds weird from a distance.
yeah, from a distance, considering you don't watch any of them.
They all have *a* point of view
must sound super crazy to authoritarians. but if you needed to string it together, they all are liberal to a degree. GASP
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
it isn't his fault that he thought the iraq war was absolute bullshit (oh i'm sorry, do people think it wasn't at this point????)
he worked with the fodder he was given.
but from 1999 to 2014, one side of the aisle happened to supply more fodder
BIGBREITBARTINTERACTIVE strikes again!
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
btw, if every single comedian that has a view on politics is a problem to you that makes them hate you. maybe its your political views that are making you hate them?
JFC, the political band on BBI sure seems to be going well
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Brilliant comedian but a little bit of a weasel.
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
you didn't watch the show. he went after both sides.
it isn't his fault that he thought the iraq war was absolute bullshit (oh i'm sorry, do people think it wasn't at this point????)
he worked with the fodder he was given.
but from 1999 to 2014, one side of the aisle happened to supply more fodder
BIGBREITBARTINTERACTIVE strikes again!
Hey that was my line ! (lol)
When the comedy show (either left or right) becomes a constant and daily hit job on one side of the political spectrum then it's not a comedy show, it's a mouthpiece for an agenda.
Remember the Daily Show with Craig Kilborn? It was hilarious because it was just funny for the sake of being funny; not trying to inject comedy into politics.
It's political satire. It's not supposed to be "fair and balanced". Stewart's show lampoons the prevailing political viewpoints of the powers that be. And the politics of this country have obviously taken a hard turn toward the right in the past three decades, regardless of which party has been in control of the white house.
Whereas both 'sides' are probably guilty of virtue signalling, it's intrusion into comedy is some fucking droll shit for anyone over the age of 22 or so.
(Joke about a recent current event, giggle, snark, giggle)
It's some tedious crap.
BIGBREITBARTINTERACTIVE strikes again!
Hey that was my line ! (lol)
Haha it was, and I love it. Had to steal it from you.
Reminds me of this:
"once you throw something out and everyone likes it, it's public domain at that point" - ( New Window )
(Joke about a recent current event, giggle, snark, giggle)
It's some tedious crap.
Let's leave it at some people appreciate Jon Stewart and some don't. I like his comedy but I do wish that he AND OTHERS would just stay in their lane.
Bassomatic.
Nothing political by design or practice. Just whatever wormed its way into the warped minds of some inspired Canadian's.
After that it became formulaic.
Wuchu kids Got?
Which guys are probably about 56 years old by now...
Wuchu kids Got?
hell of a list. hey man, i respect my elders!!!! thats a list of legends
love the meat puppets and butthole surfers. nirvana was my bridge to music so I was a big fan of all those bands
Let's leave it at some people appreciate Jon Stewart and some don't. I like his comedy but I do wish that he AND OTHERS would just stay in their lane.
theyre 100% upfront about what they are. again, it's not PROPAGANDA cause YOU don't agree with it. holy shit, how is this hard to understand?
what the fuck does "being upfront" even entail?
its 80/20 cause one side provides more ridiculous bullshit
"You’d hear it mentioned under people’s breath when he did episodes about masturbation or released the trailer for his movie," Mike Drucker, a writer for The President Show on Comedy Central and formerly of The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, explained to me in a text message. "There’s still a fear among comedians that—even now—speaking out about this or having a strong opinion will damage you or backfire."
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Even non-partisan political discussion really has no place on BBI. My issue is not specifically with any political side having a comedy show per se, but I do wish that all of the usual suspects were more upfront about it ON BOTH SIDES. When you market a show to the 20-30 demographic and then use that show to lampoon both sides, but in an 80/20 (if generous) split, then it's a little disingenuous to pretend that it is an irreverent show like Impractical Jokers or something.
Let's leave it at some people appreciate Jon Stewart and some don't. I like his comedy but I do wish that he AND OTHERS would just stay in their lane.
how are they not upfront about it?
theyre 100% upfront about what they are. again, it's not PROPAGANDA cause YOU don't agree with it. holy shit, how is this hard to understand?
what the fuck does "being upfront" even entail?
its 80/20 cause one side provides more ridiculous bullshit
That's a poor take Sonic. You are again interjecting personal politics into it, which is a no-no here. It's not about what I believe or don't. I'm being fair to everyone who jumps back and forth over the line in this same manner.
Look at the description of the Daily show on their website- it says "tackles news, politics and pop culture." So is it a News Show? A Comedy Show? A Political show? That's my gripe. If you want to make jokes then make jokes. If you want to be a show where legitimately a lot of people turn to get their news then be a news show like Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson. With those shows you know what you get. It's not veiled. Literally the Greg Gutfeld show is broadcast on FOX NEWS. That's crazy. People go from watching a news show with a news ticker to a pseudo-comedy show masquerading as news?
I understand your argument- that all programming is going to be slanted, and I respect that. Maybe I am old fashioned but shouldn't news be news and entertainment be entertainment?
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In comment 13685768 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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Even non-partisan political discussion really has no place on BBI. My issue is not specifically with any political side having a comedy show per se, but I do wish that all of the usual suspects were more upfront about it ON BOTH SIDES. When you market a show to the 20-30 demographic and then use that show to lampoon both sides, but in an 80/20 (if generous) split, then it's a little disingenuous to pretend that it is an irreverent show like Impractical Jokers or something.
Let's leave it at some people appreciate Jon Stewart and some don't. I like his comedy but I do wish that he AND OTHERS would just stay in their lane.
how are they not upfront about it?
theyre 100% upfront about what they are. again, it's not PROPAGANDA cause YOU don't agree with it. holy shit, how is this hard to understand?
what the fuck does "being upfront" even entail?
its 80/20 cause one side provides more ridiculous bullshit
Maybe I am old fashioned but shouldn't news be news and entertainment be entertainment?
No. That isn't even old fashioned. This has always been the case, dating back to political cartoons from the 1600s.
It's an outlandish take that has zero basis in reality. Your use of Guttfield's show to try and show some sort of evenhandedness is very transparent.
There is nothing, not one god damn thing, to suggest that making jokes about the news is somehow crossing a line.
Nobody is allowed to make jokes about the news? That's literally what you are saying. It's a fucking joke.
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Even non-partisan political discussion really has no place on BBI. My issue is not specifically with any political side having a comedy show per se, but I do wish that all of the usual suspects were more upfront about it ON BOTH SIDES. When you market a show to the 20-30 demographic and then use that show to lampoon both sides, but in an 80/20 (if generous) split, then it's a little disingenuous to pretend that it is an irreverent show like Impractical Jokers or something.
Let's leave it at some people appreciate Jon Stewart and some don't. I like his comedy but I do wish that he AND OTHERS would just stay in their lane.
how are they not upfront about it?
theyre 100% upfront about what they are. again, it's not PROPAGANDA cause YOU don't agree with it. holy shit, how is this hard to understand?
what the fuck does "being upfront" even entail?
its 80/20 cause one side provides more ridiculous bullshit
Thats complete crap. You just look at it like that because you have the same political views as Stewert. Both Dems and Reps offer plenty of opportunities, Hollywood just chooses the rip the Reps because they are ridiculously slanted to the left. Even they will admit it.
We can all agree to disagree here.
Kurt missed all that.
He spent every night going on TV and taking jab after jab at one side of the aisle, and then every time he got called to the carpet for it and asked why he didn't skewer both sides evenly he cowered behind the whole "It's on Comedy Central it can't be a real political show" angle. If it's not a political show why the hell is 90% of it dedicated to politics then?
Just rubs me the wrong way- AGAIN- same with Gutfeld, Maher, Oliver, Colbert, Kimmel now too. It's all bs.
Agree 100%. Too many people take comedian/activists as actual educated and informed political experts when they are making millions as a stand up comedian with the subject matter taking swipes at politicians who aren't in their own party. It's okay if you realize it's simple comedy and not a valid source of helpful / non-biased information. But too many people - especially the younger generation - actually use these comedians as their news outlet rather than going to legitimate news...which in all fairness, is like finding a needle in a haystack these days.
The dumb assed shit, foibles and pretenses of regular everyday people seems like it has so much untapped potential right now.