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Defense Coup or not? Agree or Disagree?

NorwoodWideRight : 11/13/2017 8:53 am
After last week's game, I was seriously considering that the defense was playing bad on purpose. After watching yesterday's game and watching Apple walk out of bounds instead of attacking a runner heading for the endzone, I'm now positive that there are at least a few players tanking on purpose.

Agree or disagree?

And, if it's true that Apple, DRC and Jackrabbit (to name a few) have put their heads together on this, do you agree or disagree that management has no choice but to act and get involved in a regime change mid-season?

Because, I gotta tell you, DRC's comments to the press last week and the week before about the HC rang as hallow and false, even mildly condescending. I really think that these three players (at least) are involved in an action against the HC.
superspynyg : 11/13/2017 8:55 am : link
But I canít tell if Collins is part of it.

He missed big on Celeck on that TD bu came out before and said the team is behind the HC
not an organized coup  
family progtitioner : 11/13/2017 8:57 am : link
but they are basically pouting and making business decisions out there.
Allowing 49rs 474 yards with  
ZogZerg : 11/13/2017 8:58 am : link
who is their QB? with our 3 "studd" corners and our "studd" safety playing.

Yeah, something going on.
1) Spags SUCKS. Been saying that for years  
Victor in CT : 11/13/2017 8:59 am : link
2) Jenkins is the poster boy for why you don't build through FA.

3) Ditto Vernon. He made that one spectacular INT, but the rest of the game looked like Mark Gastineau playing the run. Outside rush, pushed pass the play, RB goes inside.

4) No LBs.

5) Collins has been awful, though I jeard he was sick yestrerday and played through it so credit for trying. Thompson was vastly overrated here.

6) I think the entire team has completely tuned out the coaching staff. Individual pride is all that keeps some guys playing.

forgot to mention: JPP sucks too  
Victor in CT : 11/13/2017 9:01 am : link
told ya so. so did alot of other people her.
RE: Allowing 49rs 474 yards with  
superspynyg : 11/13/2017 9:11 am : link
In comment 13689372 ZogZerg said:
who is their QB? with our 3 "studd" corners and our "studd" safety playing.

Yeah, something going on.

2 stud cbs. Apple has not earned that honor.
Need to rebuild this defense as a 3-4  
Ivan15 : 11/13/2017 9:19 am : link
I love a 4-3 D but you a 3-4 is easier to build and maintain.

You need a great nose tackle. Check. Got one.

You donít need pass rushing DEs. you need point of attack DEs. Hybrid DE/DTs work fine. Giants have a few of those.

You donít need sideline to sideline LBs. You do need at least 2 very athletic OLBs. Giants donít have even one of those but they are not that hard to find among fast but maybe slightly undersized College LBs. If you find a superstar at that position, thatís the guy who should get the big bucks.
It is possibly both a partial D -tank and Spags limitations  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2017 9:24 am : link
I have been trying to politely expose Jerry Reese's (now very obvious) baises, tendencies and habits here for ten years.

He cannot go quick enough. I think he may have had Mara 'on a string', as far as how to interpret what happens on the field visa-vis the 'big plans'...and that string (or narrative) becomes more and more exposed without scapegoats like Tom Coughlin.

So, was the pressure from Jerry now on Macadoo 'keep working on the plan' as opposed to doing what made sense?

I mean, I have been all in on getting rid of Macadoo for a few weeks at least now.

Question is though: Was Macadoo making personel decisions in both units, who is on the field, who practices what 'working towards the power' (of Jerrys ongoing ass coverings)?

Its hard to tell. BUT, if he was doing that, rather than coaching to win - that could really piss some players off.

Whereas some of this may or may not explain the D-backs recent drop off, does it explain Spags sudden weak play calling? That's a real mystery.

Maybe Spags just lost his LBs and simply doesn't have a system without them. But he should have one.

Why was Casillas, short, fat and slow, compared to that JAG TE, even initially -covering- a TE? That guy ran past Casillas like a lamp post and little Jenkins had a major task.

Jenkins is typically a heck of a player, but head to head with a giant TE is not his forte.

Its as if they have a 'story' about how a game should go, and when it turns out to be false some of them pack it in.

Bottom line though. You cannot get an honest pass rush, Spags like to blitz little players. We need to revisit a PILE of positions and early. 2 Guards, a DT, a LB or two, maybe a corner depending on who stays, maybe a T depending on who stays...all within the first few rounds. That's on Jerry.

fans are cynical  
UConn4523 : 11/13/2017 9:25 am : link
they suck and aren't giving maximum effort, happens all the time and now its our turn. I think its as simple as that.
Yes there is definitely a rift between McAdoo and the defense  
Giants86 : 11/13/2017 9:27 am : link
just a mess..
I think many of them want OUT of NY...  
silverfox : 11/13/2017 9:38 am : link
They know that the team is likely to be gutted and will probably be rebuilding for years into the future. I think some of them want to get with playoff-bound teams that at least have a chance. The Giants have no chance to get better with the current regime. NONE. I would not be surprised if some of then want to be traded or waived after the season is over. They know more dirt than we do, and if we think things are rotten, most likley its a whole lot worse that we think.
Character may be at issue  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2017 9:44 am : link
Was someone trying to create a narrative that Manning is the main problem? Shows lack of character to do that as well as lack of football knowledge, the roster isn't balanced at all.

Sure, Manning takes a high % of the money, but that doesn't explain draft priorities. Rookies are less expensive.Throwing Manning under the bus or looking for an easy out an easy answer of a new QB to avoid the obvious? Character.

Was Macadoo working towards Jerrys bs as opposed to coaching to win? Character.

Did Ben drink his own Koolaide? Character.

Players. Do kids these days even want to give full effort when loosing is on the menu? Character.

Look at 79-80, 1981, 82, and so forth. The D wrecked teams and didn't care about the O. Character.

My guess is that Mara is a good, high character guy, but maybe not the sharpest tool in the toolbox.

You loose your way when you let someone else tell you what your seeing.

The Emperor Has No Cloths:

"But, Sir, its an invisible cloak" !

"Ok, Jerry,...can they see my butt?"

"No Sir, they cannot, its magic"

It's a valid question,  
jogo1 : 11/13/2017 9:45 am : link
but does DRC really belong on this list? Being honest, I mostly just watched the highlights from yesterday, which showed various levels of incompetence and business decisions by Apple, Jenkins, and Collins, but nothing with DRC. He seemed fine against the Rams as well.
I think it is a ridiculous  
joeinpa : 11/13/2017 9:50 am : link
Notion that a player would jeopardize their own career by purposely playing badly.
Jerry K : 11/13/2017 9:55 am : link
DRC was probably out of position on the long TD that JJ gave up. As Daryl Johnston pointed out, JJ was playing outside leverage and it looked like he was expecting inside help from DRC who, instead, moved up to cover a shorter route.
Jimmy Googs : 11/13/2017 9:56 am : link
But I did think Collins was hustling.

Players I saw kind of going thru motions at points in the game or being selfish include Jenkins, Apple, DRC, JPP, Casillas.

The tough one to tell was Casillas since he looks like bad like that a lot...

Yep, the defensive players have spoken  
HomerJones45 : 11/13/2017 9:57 am : link
and they are saying to get rid of Slick
Gross Blau Oberst : 11/13/2017 9:59 am : link
No, not a coup. Just professional players not giving a damn, and playing like amateurs.

Not a conspiracy. Not a statement. Not a coup. Just poor attitudes and poorer effort.
Agree -but its just the cornerbacks and JPP  
PatersonPlank : 11/13/2017 10:04 am : link
It's hard for Collins to look good when the corners are mailing it in.
RE: I think it is a ridiculous  
FStubbs : 11/13/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13689566 joeinpa said:
Notion that a player would jeopardize their own career by purposely playing badly.

Nope - not purposely. They're making "business decisions". Not to put forth that extra effort to take a 270 pound man and risk injury on a lost season. That sort of thing.
Spags D works when you have a  
Bluesbreaker : 11/13/2017 2:23 pm : link
legitimate pass rush .
Jenkins played pro bowl level last year !
OV was a bad move . My nefew big Phins fan said your gonna be disappointed with him . Play before the INT OV was dogging it terribly . Collins is having a bad season but the opposition has figured out how to get a speedster one on one
with no one deep two weeks in a row .
Thompson is terrible he is too slow and also slow to react
not what you want in a FS he might make an average SS.
Yes No LB's and it makes me nuts . B.J. Goodson has some potential but none of the rest are very impressive .
Watching these quick twitch speedy tackling machines makes me ill Foster gonna be a good one .
There is definitely a problem on defense but I feel its more towards MacHandley than Spags .
I don't think there is an intentional aim to do it  
moespree : 11/13/2017 2:27 pm : link
Do they all give 100% on every play? The answer is no. But is this a planned out intentional act? I doubt it. The Giants are not the first team in sports history to face these types of questions. I think it is something you see in other teams when things go bad over the course of a season. I don't think there is some well planned out intentional effort. Instead I think it i simple laziness and being effortless. Which in itself is a big problem, planned out coup or not.
Also possible  
mrvax : 11/13/2017 2:48 pm : link
that with the LB injuries, the guy on the field calling defensive coverages may not be very good.
A coup is a takeover marked by violence  
Ron Johnson : 11/13/2017 3:04 pm : link
nothing violent about those guys
Re: 3-4 defense  
arniefez : 11/13/2017 3:07 pm : link
Collins would be great as an OLB in a 3-4
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