Would you agree that Eli has had pretty much no weapons on offense to throw to outside of Evan Engram?
Let's look at Evan Engram in relation to the rest of the TE's in the NFL:
He's 5th in receptions with 40
He's 8th in yards with 443
He's 2nd in the league in TD's with 5
I read this morning that Evan Engram is the first rookie TE since the merger in 1970 to reach 400 yards and 5 TD's through 8 games.
So my question is this: Is Eli in decline except when he's throwing to Engram?
Is that anything new, though?
100% in agreement! Eli is not a WCO QB. Dinking and dunking isn't him. McAdoo and Eli aren't a good fit.
Can he still play well enough to win, absolutely. Still better than 1/2 the league, but not much...
Been going on for 2 seasons now with respect to long balls and patience in pocket, eyes dropping. Always had the inaccuracy issue and throwing behind guys but now it's more...
Can he still play well enough to win, absolutely. Still better than 1/2 the league, but not much...
Eli has also been missing all of his starting receivers most of the year, as well. Chemistry is important.
Come on...
On the other, he goes down with little or sometimes no contact. The most important stats for a QB, scoring and yrds/catch are horrendous and he turns the ball over way too much.
He's not 2011 Eli but he's not quite Bledsoe yet either. I'd like to see him in a better system with some talent around him but I think that ship has sailed. He's too old to start a rebuild around and surrounding him with adequate talent might take years.
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deep throws all year. He can still sling it, but he deep throws have been awfully inaccurate going on two years, even when there is time and the receivers are very open.
Can he still play well enough to win, absolutely. Still better than 1/2 the league, but not much...
Eli has also been missing all of his starting receivers most of the year, as well. Chemistry is important.
He has missed a wide open Shepard and others. He has missed Engram. I don't buy the chemistry except on read plays. A guy running open down the middle or a throw to the pillion (King last week) should not be badly missed.
The trend in the league is to play the young QB's the old vet stuff is not really working aside from Drew Brees and Brady.
The other teams are making the transition. Its hard to let go of Eli because he has never been hurt.
We've got at least two division rivals who are set at QB for the next decade, and we have a HOF QB who's in self-preservation mode.
When the chips were stacked against Eli (no o-line and no receivers), he didn't exactly inspire the team. Maybe no one could in those circumstances...
...but, then again, it would have required a QB who could extend plays with his legs. Eli, in stark contrast, is looking for a soft spot on the field to plant his carcass.
So, what do we have in Eli? A guy that needs just about everything perfect in front of him in order to succeed. And a guy who looks very, very old in comparison with the young studs in Philly and Dallas.
Team needs to move on from Eli. That process will begin for real when the Giants select a QB in the Top 3 picks of 2018 Draft.
Eli looked good yesterday aside from the fumble. Crisp passes, good accuracy for the most part. Again, nothing was eye-pooping but that's ok. He was good enough to win on another day with a better defense and had Pugh stayed in the game. Again what is the big news here?
You seem to want to constantly argue against people who offer any criticism of his game, or suggest there is value in seeing what Webb can do, or (gasp) suggest that Eli may not be the QB past next year.
For all of Eli's strengths, he is not athletic, not particularly accurate, and doesn't throw the long ball particularly well anymore. And while he is smart, he is also good for 1 or 2 boneheaded plays/throws per game, it seems.
That isn't b/c he WR's got hurt in Game 6 (or 5, whatever it was)... this has been the case for a while now... so don't blame it on injuries.
all that said, give Eli a line and some weapons and he will be fine. Beyond that, I don't get your incessant chirping about him. you must have other thoughts that occupy your head, no?
He cant make those short passes accurately. He throws them high. He can throw downfield a lot better so that's what he should do.
In fact, I'd assume that's exactly what we're seeing.
Circumstances have not been on #10's side this year - but let's not act like he's done himself a ton of favors, either. He hasn't played well and he didn't play well last year, either.
It's possible that he's just nearing the end here.
Not everyone is Tom Brady.
That said, I think Eli will play out his contract with the Giants, and I also think that with the right moves this offseason, the Giants (and Eli) will win again.
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In comment 13689618 section125 said:
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deep throws all year. He can still sling it, but he deep throws have been awfully inaccurate going on two years, even when there is time and the receivers are very open.
Can he still play well enough to win, absolutely. Still better than 1/2 the league, but not much...
Eli has also been missing all of his starting receivers most of the year, as well. Chemistry is important.
He has missed a wide open Shepard and others. He has missed Engram. I don't buy the chemistry except on read plays. A guy running open down the middle or a throw to the pillion (King last week) should not be badly missed.
It's a bad offense. When Kizer is allowed to throw the ball down the field and Manning is not, there is a problem with the offense.
He made some good throws yesterday, and that's going to happen because he's an NFL QB. Favre could probably go out there and make a couple of great throws in a game.
However, he also made a number of bad throws - the hospital ball to King being one.
His deep ball, which was once his strength has been inaccurate even when he has time.
Both can be true that Eli's skills are in decline, and he lacks talent around him at the moment.
In fact, I'd assume that's exactly what we're seeing.
Circumstances have not been on #10's side this year - but let's not act like he's done himself a ton of favors, either. He hasn't played well and he didn't play well last year, either.
It's possible that he's just nearing the end here.
Not everyone is Tom Brady.
Yeah, I think Eli can still be successful if the offense is well-built. I don't know if he's going to be able to elevate offenses the way he has in the past (2009-2011, etc., even as recent as 14/15). Maybe he can, but if the opportunity presents itself to draft an elite QB, I think you take it.
If Eli doesn't retire as a Giant because of that young QB pushing for time, I'd be happy to see him go elsewhere and succeed.
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In comment 13689628 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13689618 section125 said:
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deep throws all year. He can still sling it, but he deep throws have been awfully inaccurate going on two years, even when there is time and the receivers are very open.
Can he still play well enough to win, absolutely. Still better than 1/2 the league, but not much...
Eli has also been missing all of his starting receivers most of the year, as well. Chemistry is important.
He has missed a wide open Shepard and others. He has missed Engram. I don't buy the chemistry except on read plays. A guy running open down the middle or a throw to the pillion (King last week) should not be badly missed.
You need to watch other qb's- they all miss. As for the deep throws, we simply do not throw down the field. Longest pass play yesterday was 26 yards on Shepard's catch and run. No one else caught a pass in excess of 15 yards. We averaged less than 10 yards a catch. The Browns yesterday had pass plays of 35, 38, 18 and 19.
It's a bad offense. When Kizer is allowed to throw the ball down the field and Manning is not, there is a problem with the offense.
We've taken deep shots all year. You're only looking at the ones that are caught, but did you tally up the deep passes that were incomplete?
That said, I think Eli will play out his contract with the Giants, and I also think that with the right moves this offseason, the Giants (and Eli) will win again.
I think there's like 2 people on this site who think he's been a problem since 2009. C'mon, the vast, overwhelming consensus on this site is that Reese has not drafted well at all and has been unable to assemble a team (esp O line) around him. Mac doesn't help and the injuries are just the cherry on top this year. That combined with him declining and now having poor pocket presence is what has led to this shitshow
It's pretty obviously the case. The team around him sucks, but he's still not making plays that are there.
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You need to watch other qb's- they all miss. As for the deep throws, we simply do not throw down the field. Longest pass play yesterday was 26 yards on Shepard's catch and run. No one else caught a pass in excess of 15 yards. We averaged less than 10 yards a catch. The Browns yesterday had pass plays of 35, 38, 18 and 19.
It's a bad offense. When Kizer is allowed to throw the ball down the field and Manning is not, there is a problem with the offense.
Of course other QBs miss. Eli is still throwing down field and he missing and that is why you can't remember he is throwing down field. Every QB misses some deep throws, and Eli was always reliable on deep passes, but now he is missing. That throw to Shepard last week was brutally bad - it wasn't even close. I cannot remember the game earlier where he missed two or three open guys deep. Even if underthrown, they would have set up the offense.
Lots if folks are in so much denial that they propose that he has a few years in him, YEARS. There is obviously a lot of delusion on this topic.
2) He looks old, plays old, and can't hold onto the damn ball. He is good for at least one turnover a game and he had many games where he had more than one. Defenses are licking their chops playing against Eli. He is no threat to them any longer. His long ball isn't that great anymore and he rarely ever hits a receiver in stride. The receivers almost always have to make contortions or leap tall buildings to catch his damn passes.
He had his glory...now its time to face reality. He can't carry the team anymore and frankly he never seemed like the LEADER type. He's a passive guy that this team doesn't need. In fact, they don't need any passive guys on this team. They need young, hungry, aggressive, fearless players. He plays like a $20 mil QB playing poorly...he knows he gets paid either way and knows they won't bench him. Its pretty obvious.
You could have God Almighty qb this trash offense and it would have issues. Get rid of the doofus HC-OC and get a legitimate NFL offensive scheme in here and Manning should be able to execute it at a high level.
You could have God Almighty qb this trash offense and it would have issues. Get rid of the doofus HC-OC and get a legitimate NFL offensive scheme in here and Manning should be able to execute it at a high level.
So you think at age 37, his skills are not in decline?
You could have God Almighty qb this trash offense and it would have issues. Get rid of the doofus HC-OC and get a legitimate NFL offensive scheme in here and Manning should be able to execute it at a high level.
If you can't see any decline in ability here - I don't know what to tell you.
It's there.
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then you might have an argument about this so-called decline, but he's not. There is plenty of zip on the ball.
You could have God Almighty qb this trash offense and it would have issues. Get rid of the doofus HC-OC and get a legitimate NFL offensive scheme in here and Manning should be able to execute it at a high level.
So you think at age 37, his skills are not in decline?
I think it is overstated.
He is capable of making all the throws still, if given the time (which he has been getting more of later in the season). Just wish he had the weapons and a healthy Pugh to settle down the OL even more.
He is capable of making all the throws still, if given the time (which he has been getting more of later in the season). Just wish he had the weapons and a healthy Pugh to settle down the OL even more.
That's all I've been saying.
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Believe it or not, it can actually be true that Eli is declining and the decline is being magnified by the lack of weapons on the offensive side of the ball right now.
In fact, I'd assume that's exactly what we're seeing.
Circumstances have not been on #10's side this year - but let's not act like he's done himself a ton of favors, either. He hasn't played well and he didn't play well last year, either.
It's possible that he's just nearing the end here.
Not everyone is Tom Brady.
Yeah, I think Eli can still be successful if the offense is well-built. I don't know if he's going to be able to elevate offenses the way he has in the past (2009-2011, etc., even as recent as 14/15). Maybe he can, but if the opportunity presents itself to draft an elite QB, I think you take it.
If Eli doesn't retire as a Giant because of that young QB pushing for time, I'd be happy to see him go elsewhere and succeed.
I agree - I don't think he's shot, but I think for an offense to be good with Eli now, it has to be really built to his strengths. He'd need a strong running game, good pass pro, and good weapons.
This isn't a player who is going to elevate the guys around him at this stage.
And it's nothing against Eli. Some fans seem to take this personally or feel like it's a slight.
Of course, there are people who have been trying to bury the guy for years or blame EVERYTHING on him - which also isn't fair.
But if people still can't admit that he's declining at this point, I'm not sure what to tell them. That part is clear even if this is not all his fault.
Lots if folks are in so much denial that they propose that he has a few years in him, YEARS. There is obviously a lot of delusion on this topic.
It's an obsession at this point.
2) he has played fine in recent weeks in the grand scheme--- far from the biggest issue.
3) garbage time stats are helping him out so referencing the numbers ... when the offense clearly struggles to put up points... its kind of a reach
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Believe it or not, it can actually be true that Eli is declining and the decline is being magnified by the lack of weapons on the offensive side of the ball right now.
It's pretty obviously the case. The team around him sucks, but he's still not making plays that are there.
As an Eli fanboy....yes they are in decline.
He compounds his fails with his passes to the turf, his easy fumbling, his forcing plays.
His buttparking are a form of business decisions for survival thanks to lack of confidence in his OL since the SF playoff game in '11. By 2014 the improvement on a scale of 10 was 3; in 2017 the improvement over'12 is -2.
Thank you JR.
Declining enough to retire? No.
A 2 year window? Likely, and a 3 year max.
1 year with a sufficient OL and the weapons back...and a D that won't tank should be worth 5- 6 wins and a top 12-15 pick.
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In comment 13689746 HomerJones45 said:
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then you might have an argument about this so-called decline, but he's not. There is plenty of zip on the ball.
You could have God Almighty qb this trash offense and it would have issues. Get rid of the doofus HC-OC and get a legitimate NFL offensive scheme in here and Manning should be able to execute it at a high level.
So you think at age 37, his skills are not in decline?
I think it is overstated.
You realize his skills are going to decline more next year, and more the year after? He could fall of the cliff next year. It's always better to move on from a player a year early rather than a year too late.