Fluker and Jones are also free agents. John Jerry is signed up, but he should not be a starter entering next season. So other than Flowers who you guys either don't want back at LT or don't want back at all... Please tell us what OL we will have next season... And then tell us how that will be better than this year's group...
it's time to blow this roster up.
Vernon, Snacks, Collins, Shepard, Odell, Engram ... everyone else can go.
Pretty cunty attitude. None are POS...if it is determined they are too often injured to be re-signed, so be it. No need for name calling. Phil Simms was constantly injured early in his career, but over came it.
When Coughlin came on in 2004 our oline was a mess. He brought in a bunch of offensive linemen via free agency and we drafted Snee. This is the formula.
1 or 2 pieces will begin the process. Rome wasn't built in a year and the offensive line will not be a quick fix.
The new HC and GM will figure it out. I’m almost 100% confident we won’t field an OL without a LG and C.
Bret Jones is, at the very least, serviceable. You can get through a year with him as your starter until you find a long term viable solution. And who is to say the next GM won’t actually hit on an OG in the draft? I know it’s a foreign thought given the incompetence of Reese and Co, but maybe it actually happens?
Not so sure it is the players that are the problem and more the scheme. New England started 3 rookie O Lineman last year the first game and won a super bowl. The play calling on this team has sucked for the past 4 years and that coincides with Odell Beckham. Which probably explains why when he is not on the field the Giants do not score. A good O Line coach and a good offensive coordinator with the help of an NFL viable QB, which Eli may or may not be will improve any line they put out there.
Let’s talk about scheme - you run the ball. Establish the run, let your linemen gain confidence. Make the other team stop you. Then when they do, you throw up top to Odell and crew. Instead we threw the ball more and more with or without Odell on field. Oline never learned how to pass block because they either suck or don’t get it.
Example. Against cowboys opening night, Sean Lee knew our game plan better than we did. So why not load up with 2 TE and FB and smash mouth. Oh right Perkins is trash. But that should’ve been the gameplan. Scheme and players suck.
- will only count 6 mil per year on the next 2 season we would save 16 mil to go towards the new OL.
- with the 9 mil plus that we save from not resigning Pugh / Richburg we’d have a min of 26 mill of cap space with arguably 2 of the first 33-34 pics in the draft
- bring fluker back at a similar deal, spread the 26 plus mil over three OL positions and draft one in the 2nd rd.
- get a QB to battle w/ Webb for the Keys to the Franchise
Pass. HARD.
Pugh is a very good lineman. Richburg seems to have regressed but he's going to start somewhere and likely ends up as a solid to good player when all is said n done.
Also: it is odd that he suffered a severe concussion. He is one of the few guys on the team wearing one of those new VICIS helmets that are supposed to have a flexible outer shell to protect against concussions.
Flowers is under contract. Him and Wheeler need to compete for LT. Hopefully, Wheeler is up to the task.
Guards: Ideally, Jerry doesn't play. Has Fluker reestablished his value? I don't see anyone clamoring to sign him. Perhaps a short-term incentive laden contract might persuade him. A few UFA guards that are in their late 20's and coming from a team that has proven to run the ball in no particular order. Bare minimum qualifications, but that is where we are. 1. Josh Kline (28) Titans, 2. Senio Kelemete (27) Saints, 3. Chris Hubbard (26) Pitt, 4. Jonathan Cooper (27) Dallas, 5. Andrew Norwell (26) Car
Expect at least two, maybe three, new, high value line starters, a line centric GM, a line centric HC, a new OC and a new Line coach.
Hopefully a group with some success -together- to a certain extent.
I would hope so. At least we will be able to get pressure on Wentz twice a year.
Flowers-Nelson-Swanson-Jerry-Brown
Another option would be to take Nelson after a trade down then take another guard in the 2nd or 3rd and hope Wheeler can hold down RT. Use the other 1st and other 2nd on a pass rusher and true LB.
It’s not that tough to fix if the Giants commit to it.
Fans need to wake up and understand that NCAA offensive lineman are not game ready coming out of college anymore. Look around the league and the last top 10 players coming out of college have all been slow or have outright busted
Vets who know the game and have chemistry are likelier to build a solid line around However, you have to pay for that chemistry.
Agreed.
Fans need to wake up and understand that NCAA offensive lineman are not game ready coming out of college anymore. Look around the league and the last top 10 players coming out of college have all been slow or have outright busted
Vets who know the game and have chemistry are likelier to build a solid line around However, you have to pay for that chemistry.
Where are you getting these facts from? Cam Robinson and Ryan Ramcyzk prove exactly the opposite.
(new coach, oc, ol coach and system, +1 RB)
They really built an excellent OL. I think you guys saw they score 6 rushing TD's in Buffalo.
He played 16 games his rookie year. Every year since, he has missed multiple games. So far this year, he has only missed 1 full game. His sore back started going into the bye. He missed the 2nd half yesterday, and I won't be surprised if he misses this week.
This !!!!
Not only did they change their entire O-line, but they have that record playing Case Keenum, their 3rd string quarterback.
But they also do not have McAdoo as their coach! Or Reese as their GM!
LG - Jerry. I'll say it again for the nth time. If he is your 5th best lineman, your line might be pretty good. If he is 4th, you still could be average.
C - Jones. Outside of Richburg being a number 2 pick, I haven't seen anything in about 2 years that shows Jones is a downgrade to Richburg. It's possible, he comes back but it would be for significantly less than originally thought.
RG - Fluker. If we can sign him for a similar deal that Jerry got this year, I would consider it.
RT - FA. At minimum an average one.
Draft - At least one 1st/2nd day pick. If you can get a Tackle early great, you may go with an interior player within the 1st 4 rounds also (with an eye on ultimately replacing Jerry/Jones.)
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To resign one of the 2.
Fans need to wake up and understand that NCAA offensive lineman are not game ready coming out of college anymore. Look around the league and the last top 10 players coming out of college have all been slow or have outright busted
Vets who know the game and have chemistry are likelier to build a solid line around However, you have to pay for that chemistry.
Where are you getting these facts from? Cam Robinson and Ryan Ramcyzk prove exactly the opposite.
Look who those guys are playing next too, those are elite lines.
Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Jake Long, Greg Robinson prove my point.
- will only count 6 mil per year on the next 2 season we would save 16 mil to go towards the new OL.
- with the 9 mil plus that we save from not resigning Pugh / Richburg we’d have a min of 26 mill of cap space with arguably 2 of the first 33-34 pics in the draft
- bring fluker back at a similar deal, spread the 26 plus mil over three OL positions and draft one in the 2nd rd.
- get a QB to battle w/ Webb for the Keys to the Franchise
You do know that Eli has a.........................
A fuck it, nevermind......
Just because we don't have anyone under contract doesn't mean that we have to sign our own FA. The problems with Pugh/Richburg are health related as much as anything else. Additionally there could be problems with asking price.
If the asking price is right for each of them, I'm okay with bringing them back to compete for jobs. Unfortunately you can't really count on guys who are injured to be regular players for you, so we better have a strong plan A. Or these guys better be priced to be plan B's.
We also have a dire situation at LB if you look at who is under contract next year. The GM has its work cut out for them, that's for sure.
Our OL has two guys with a real future Flowers and Jones the Rest all come with many skills, injury and upside questions. Play these guys let them gain something from this season and judge them for game time experience not practice or PS. Check the league PS and waiver wires we don’t have anyone at this time who can’t be easily replaced on our OL. I don’t buy the they need to work together they need to do their job then help if they can. We have some young kids now is the time to get them on the field see what you really have not what you think you have.
Our OL has two guys with a real future Flowers and Jones the Rest all come with many skills, injury and upside questions. Play these guys let them gain something from this season and judge them for game time experience not practice or PS. Check the league PS and waiver wires we don’t have anyone at this time who can’t be easily replaced on our OL. I don’t buy the they need to work together they need to do their job then help if they can. We have some young kids now is the time to get them on the field see what you really have not what you think you have.
Dragon has a valid point. The season is over except for evaluation purposes. We should be poaching other team's practice squads and get a good look for the remaining practice/game time. If they absolutely suck, then you release them and find another. Keep turning over the rocks and we are bound to find some talent. That should go for our LB situation. Every Tuesday should come with announcements of new signings. What is the downside? We are going to lose another game?
As for scheme, wasn't the great Solari supposed to fix the mess that Flaherty supposedly left behind? That's what lots of people said here. Worked out well.
I guess Flats got his skills back at JAX, where they can actually run the ball and protect their QB
As another poster said, the desperate mentality got us stuck with Beatty, whom was a similar profile of NFL player.
It's going to be a huge challenge for this regime to rebuild the OL quickly.
Question is, will anyone else? The assumption in this thread seems to be that their injuries won't affect their market value. I'd suggest waiting to see what the market truly is. If they can be signed at a "discount" and you can add some young OL talent for the future in the draft it could be a plan.
If he can be had for 25M guaranteed (big if), he's essentially a flat cost.
As another poster said, the desperate mentality got us stuck with Beatty, whom was a similar profile of NFL player.
It's going to be a huge challenge for this regime to rebuild the OL quickly.
I’d rather just let the next regime rebuild it.
I wouldn’t resign him or Richburg and I would cut Jerry and B Hart and start from there with Flowers Pugh jones wheeler and cut Biznotaway too bring back Geddis and halapio
Fluker is not starter material, because he sucks in pass blocking.....
Flowers is under contract for one more year....do you want to re-sign him? I mean he can't run block in short yardage situations and after 2 seconds his pass blocking is suspect...
Pugh/Richburg could be the reincarnation of Baas/Schwartz...
I have no idea where you start...after 7 seasons we do not have one building block in this OL....and when you hear names like Wheeler and Bisnowaty, you just have to shake your head and say, "here we go again."
As another poster said, the desperate mentality got us stuck with Beatty, whom was a similar profile of NFL player.
It's going to be a huge challenge for this regime to rebuild the OL quickly.
Good point on Beatty. Situation feels similar.
Richburg's lack of ability to get movement in the run game has been a hindrance to the offense and these concussion issues are worrisome.
Pugh has performed admirably and has been a good soldier moving all around the line. But durability remains a concern and he's been good but not great.
With some big money deals on the horizon for actual elite players at their position like Odell and Collins (I'm still a believer despite a tough season), tough decisions will need to be made.
Seems counter-intuitive to rebuild the OL by letting maybe your two best guys go. But can't pay good players elite money. Otherwise you end up with the mess we have a defensive end.
As another poster said, the desperate mentality got us stuck with Beatty, whom was a similar profile of NFL player.
It's going to be a huge challenge for this regime to rebuild the OL quickly.
This regime? :(
As a result, there will likely be a significant change in what offense the team runs. In today's game, the offensive scheme has as much to do with the offensive line play as the skill level.
It is important to note that not every OL fits every scheme. Flowers probably can start in most systems, but might not be a LT in some of them. Pugh, Jones and others have athletic limitations that might not mesh with a new system. Thus, we are VERY much putting the cart before the horse if you are trying to decide who returns on the OL bases solely on FA or who is injured or not.
Remember as well that if the Giants bring in an experienced head coach who brings in an experienced staff, they are likely to have relationships with players around the league and familiarity with the new offensive scheme that will favor certain OL over others.
Anyone claiming that they what next year's needs on the OL are or who is a "must sign" is fooling themselves until the new coach and staff is brought in and we know what scheme will be run.
Flowers is having a decent season . I doubt we are gonna
take Nelson that high even though he is the best lineman in the draft . Were most likely taking a QB although I would rather gamble on Webb and take Barkley .
If Reese is at the helm we will stay put I hope he is gone
and get a GM that isn't afraid to make some deals on guy
that have value to get more picks in the draft .
if you get a new/good/less stubborn coach out there... with that group, i think the offense will be absolutely fine.
the 2nd WR spot will also be an area of focus but that isnt the topic of this thread
As a result, there will likely be a significant change in what offense the team runs. In today's game, the offensive scheme has as much to do with the offensive line play as the skill level.
It is important to note that not every OL fits every scheme. Flowers probably can start in most systems, but might not be a LT in some of them. Pugh, Jones and others have athletic limitations that might not mesh with a new system. Thus, we are VERY much putting the cart before the horse if you are trying to decide who returns on the OL bases solely on FA or who is injured or not.
Remember as well that if the Giants bring in an experienced head coach who brings in an experienced staff, they are likely to have relationships with players around the league and familiarity with the new offensive scheme that will favor certain OL over others.
Anyone claiming that they what next year's needs on the OL are or who is a "must sign" is fooling themselves until the new coach and staff is brought in and we know what scheme will be run.
+1
This is why any decision on ANY player has to be put on hold until we know what is going to happen after December 31.
As another poster said, the desperate mentality got us stuck with Beatty, whom was a similar profile of NFL player.
Actually, this is one of my favorite Reese topics. Somebody mentioned within the last couple of weeks that he's been historically a little jumpy when it comes to decision making, or words to that effect. I always thought he wanted certainty at LT in the face of the new CBA (and the resulting horde of FAs) and penned Beatty early rather than let the market play itself out, and got lousy value as a result.
I don't think it was desparation, I think it was not having the balls to ante up at the big boys table. In particular would like to hear YOUR opinion on how that situation played out, Sir.
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As another poster said, the desperate mentality got us stuck with Beatty, whom was a similar profile of NFL player.
Actually, this is one of my favorite Reese topics. Somebody mentioned within the last couple of weeks that he's been historically a little jumpy when it comes to decision making, or words to that effect. I always thought he wanted certainty at LT in the face of the new CBA (and the resulting horde of FAs) and penned Beatty early rather than let the market play itself out, and got lousy value as a result.
I don't think it was desparation, I think it was not having the balls to ante up at the big boys table. In particular would like to hear YOUR opinion on how that situation played out, Sir.
I think it was overrating his own draft pick, which allowed him to go the path of least resistance.
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I think it was overrating his own draft pick, which allowed him to go the path of least resistance.
Nothing new there. This despite the fact he was known to the outside world as 'a dancer' with 'no punch'. Thanks.
Maybe, but I don't recall commentary about timing of that FA season and JR for some reason 'doubling down' as JonC puts it before the market had even gotten momentum.
BBI discussion volume isn't always proportional to discussion value. That goes for posters and topics both.
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Seems to me he’s missed a few games every year since he’s been here, any truth to that?
He played 16 games his rookie year. Every year since, he has missed multiple games. So far this year, he has only missed 1 full game. His sore back started going into the bye. He missed the 2nd half yesterday, and I won't be surprised if he misses this week.
As expected, Pugh will be missing more games.
Pugh Keeping His Streak Going - ( New Window )