After watching the USC vs UCLA game,

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“I don’t think we feel any speculation at all. Davis Webb understands his role. He’s doing a great job every day,” Cignetti said. Cignetti acknowledged that “of course you can get a fuller evaluation of anybody with game action.” He also said, though, that Webb is “still trying to figure out a lot of things” and “there’s no hurry” to force him into games. So, Giants fans you can go ahead and keep asking for the team to use their rookie quarterback. For now, the answer is apparently going to continue to be “not yet.”

Giants’ QB coach: Davis Webb will continue to watch, learn - ( New Window )

he screwed up at Rutgers for god sakes. how he is here is beyond me

In comment 13696454 gtt350 said:

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he screwed up at Rutgers for god sakes. how he is here is beyond me

that explains it..Rutgers is all you need to know

The giants were reluctant to give Fluker or Darkwa a chance to play.They need to put everyone on the field in order to evaluate their own talent before free agency and the draft.
Also they need to establish his value.If he plays and plays well they may be able to trade him for a valuable pick.

If they've seen enough of him in practice to determine he isn't ready, what's to be gained from putting him out there to fail? And I'm not talking about the OL, I'm talking about where he is at in his development. They knew he was going to need a ton of work on his mechanics when they drafted him, so stick with the plan

After watching last night's game I am higher on Rosen than I previously was. His arm strength and ability to keep his eyes down field in face of pressure was impressive. Darnold is so good at evading the rush and throwing on the run. Neither are perfect but that is expected from a young quarterback. Either would be a good pick by the Giants and could benefit from sitting behind Eli for a year learning what it takes to be a professional.

that's just it.....he has NOT EVEN BEEN TAKING SNAPS, in practice.....he's a clipboard holder.....I just don't understand, if we have a high pick next year, and the qb's that are available are really not head and shoulders above what Webb did his senior year, why are we not finding out what the guy has? If they don't play him, then they have already evaluated that he sucks from practice? Some guys play one way in practice, and play another way, when it counts!

Like the guys said to Dirty Harry:"I gots to know!"

In comment 13696473 Milton said:

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If they've seen enough of him in practice to determine he isn't ready, what's to be gained from putting him out there to fail? And I'm not talking about the OL, I'm talking about where he is at in his development. They knew he was going to need a ton of work on his mechanics when they drafted him, so stick with the plan

Eli wasn't ready either when TC put him in for Warner but comes a time, you got to put him out there. Or are we just going to assume going into the draft,that he's not the future,that we've wasted yet another 3rd round pick,and choose a QB with our first pick?(And yes,I know regardless of Webb,they'll pick a QB) You can't simulate game conditions in practice. You can't simulate game conditions holding a clipboard.We're 1-8, & even if today promises to be "The Greatest Show On Earth"(that was Ringling Brothers & they shut down-somebody should tell McAdoo!),we need to see this kid in game conditions so that the next GM/HC has tape on him. Mara should be demanding he sees the field!

In comment 13696468 Hilary said:

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The giants were reluctant to give Fluker or Darkwa a chance to play.They need to put everyone on the field in order to evaluate their own talent before free agency and the draft. Also they need to establish his value.If he plays and plays well they may be able to trade him for a valuable pick.

I think the point is that they don't expect him to play well. So putting him out there would have the opposite effect of improving his trade value.

p.s.--The addition of Rosen (if the Giants should be so lucky) will not make Webb a wasted draft pick. He would still have plenty of value as a backup QB.

In comment 13696482 Doomster said:

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that's just it.....he has NOT EVEN BEEN TAKING SNAPS, in practice.....he's a clipboard holder.....I just don't understand, if we have a high pick next year, and the qb's that are available are really not head and shoulders above what Webb did his senior year, why are we not finding out what the guy has? If they don't play him, then they have already evaluated that he sucks from practice? Some guys play one way in practice, and play another way, when it counts! Like the guys said to Dirty Harry:"I gots to know!"

How do u know he hasn't been taking snaps in practice?

But from what I saw Rosen and Darnold looked like the real deal. I’d prefer Rosen.

As for Webb, I don’t see a need to play him now. Hopefully the Giants will have a new GM next season. Let that person
evaluate the roster. And all the ‘wasted draft picks’ will be on the former GM.

In comment 13696501 ThatLimerickGuy said:

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In comment 13696482 Doomster said: Quote: that's just it.....he has NOT EVEN BEEN TAKING SNAPS, in practice.....he's a clipboard holder.....I just don't understand, if we have a high pick next year, and the qb's that are available are really not head and shoulders above what Webb did his senior year, why are we not finding out what the guy has? If they don't play him, then they have already evaluated that he sucks from practice? Some guys play one way in practice, and play another way, when it counts! Like the guys said to Dirty Harry:"I gots to know!" Webbs senior year stats, in the same conference, will be much better than either of these guys stats. He threw for 4,300 yards, 37 TDs, and only 12 Ints. He did this after Cal graduated their top 5 WRs (I believe), so he did it with freshman and backups. How do u know he hasn't been taking snaps in practice?

which means he is a project. Several teams that needed QBs desperately passed on him multiple times. Yes maybe he will become a stud like Tom Brady. But the much, much, much more likely scenario is that he will be a career backup. He is likely not ready for NFL action yet, so putting him on the field before he is ready, with next yo mouth talent, will not show you what you have in him. In fact it may be very misleading.

The Giants are likely going to draft a QB at the top of the draft next year, and Webb will not be a consideration in that decision. He will get snaps in camp and in the preseason to show what he is. There is no reason to force him into games this year.

Rosen looks good though. Also remember Webb's senior stats will be better than either Rosen or Darnold in the same conference. Webb was a steal in the 3rd, so I don't look at him like a 3rd pick. We already have him, he has better stats than these guys, he has all the skills and size, we should give him a chance. Its not ideal to use top picks in back to back drafts on some guys who won't play, we have a lot of holes to plug right away.

The Giants were expected to be good this year. Webb was picked as a project with some value in the third round. At 1-8, naturally we all want to see him, but it could be very damaging to his confidence if we throw him out there and he stinks.

Our current coaching regime does not have a stellar history of evaluating talent and putting the best players on the field. Webb needs to be evaluated at some point this year during actual live action to see what we have. This doesnt mean benching Eli, but with the amount of garbage time coming up we could at the least let him play a quarter or two late. If management/coaches continue to deny this then they are fooling themselves and get what they deserve.

they don't want him to get hurt. At this point, they'd rather have Eli or Geno get knocked out than Webb.

when doing so tells the rest of the team that winning still matters.

In comment 13696511 PatersonPlank said:

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Rosen looks good though. Also remember Webb's senior stats will be better than either Rosen or Darnold in the same conference. Webb was a steal in the 3rd, so I don't look at him like a 3rd pick. We already have him, he has better stats than these guys, he has all the skills and size, we should give him a chance. Its not ideal to use top picks in back to back drafts on some guys who won't play, we have a lot of holes to plug right away.

Eh thats debatable. His 6.5 yards per attempt is concerning as it suggests he did a lot of dink and dunking in college

In comment 13696481 Jay on the Island said:

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After watching last night's game I am higher on Rosen than I previously was. His arm strength and ability to keep his eyes down field in face of pressure was impressive. Darnold is so good at evading the rush and throwing on the run. Neither are perfect but that is expected from a young quarterback. Either would be a good pick by the Giants and could benefit from sitting behind Eli for a year learning what it takes to be a professional.

Agree, except I am not a fan of having Eli back next year...

In comment 13696501 ThatLimerickGuy said:

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In comment 13696482 Doomster said: Quote: that's just it.....he has NOT EVEN BEEN TAKING SNAPS, in practice.....he's a clipboard holder.....I just don't understand, if we have a high pick next year, and the qb's that are available are really not head and shoulders above what Webb did his senior year, why are we not finding out what the guy has? If they don't play him, then they have already evaluated that he sucks from practice? Some guys play one way in practice, and play another way, when it counts! Like the guys said to Dirty Harry:"I gots to know!" How do u know he hasn't been taking snaps in practice?

The beat writers that cover the team have mentioned it numerous times

But they can't do anything to offend Eli.

that people that decry how poorly this team drafts believe that the 3rd round QB pick needs to play, will be a star, and should preclude us from drafting a top QB.

Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Nassib. Why is there reason to believe this front office found a gem QB in the 3rd round?

There is value in seeing Webb on the field so you know what you may have. At the very least, you give him some valuable experience.

In comment 13696541 jeff57 said:

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But they can't do anything to offend Eli.

Well Taylor is a FA after the season and not part of their plans so it's a bit different

In comment 13696468 Hilary said:

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The giants were reluctant to give Fluker or Darkwa a chance to play.They need to put everyone on the field in order to evaluate their own talent before free agency and the draft. Also they need to establish his value.If he plays and plays well they may be able to trade him for a valuable pick.

This is the 70's all over again when we'd all cheer for Walker Gillette, Jerry Golsteyn, Joe Dawkins and Doug Kotar (God rest his soul) and think these guys could be good when in fact, they were never was's and ham and eggers. Darkwa is a ham and egger, Fluker is a never was, Webb a raw rookie project.

These guys seem to be viable alternatives because this is a bad team. On Jan 1 when a new GM and new HC comes in here, I doubt any of these guys survive the roster purge.

In comment 13696543 Mike from Ohio said:

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that people that decry how poorly this team drafts believe that the 3rd round QB pick needs to play, will be a star, and should preclude us from drafting a top QB. Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Nassib. Why is there reason to believe this front office found a gem QB in the 3rd round?

Nobody is saying any of that. What they are actually saying is that they want to see him play to make those determinations. Unlike others that have their minds made up because he was only drafted in the 3rd round

was scream not to draft a QB in 2017.

2018 was going to be the year of the QB but I don't see one distancing themselves from the rest and looking like a top notch prospect.
Rosen and Darnold will be drafted early but could use another year in school
the rest
Jackson
Mayfield
Falk
Allen
Rudolph
All look like mid first rounders and beyond. Too many holes in their games to go in the top 10. (talent wise)

Might be better to go with Eli/Webb and draft a RB,CB,OT, or Edge rusher early.

In comment 13696543 Mike from Ohio said:

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that people that decry how poorly this team drafts believe that the 3rd round QB pick needs to play, will be a star, and should preclude us from drafting a top QB. Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Nassib. Why is there reason to believe this front office found a gem QB in the 3rd round?

Bingo. The true believers should go read the sobering draft assessment of Webb on nfl.com.

In comment 13696559 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 13696541 jeff57 said: Quote: But they can't do anything to offend Eli. Well Taylor is a FA after the season and not part of their plans so it's a bit different

Not a FA.

playing time is probably a pipe dream. McAdoo is trying to save his job so his concern is not getting Davis Webb playing time. It’s a bad situation, because the coach is week to week and the franchise should be thinking long term.

I don’t see how anyone could come away from the game last night and say he looked good. Missed a ton of throws vs one of the worst defenses in college. Some of the plays he did make, like the rollouts where he throws across the field, won’t fly at the nfl level.

People are so enamored with mobility that they gloss over his inadequacies as a passer I suppose.

I don't see for a second how anyone could come away from that game thinking they'd want to see more of Webb.

Last nights game got me excited at the prospect of drafting either one of those QB's. Darnold can be a tad inconsistent, but for a redshirt sophomore, people who are expecting perfection...I can't wait to hear what they say after seeing Webb out there.

Darnold really has a flair for the spectacular, and he clearly knows how to come up big in big time situations. Also, anyone who is just looking at the stats obviously didn't watch the game.

And Rosen I thought looked amazing as well, with big time throw after big time throw.

UCLA's defense has not been good this year, but that has more to do with their rush defense than anything else. They have some great athletes on that defense, and I thought a big rivalry might bring out the best in them.

of Davis Webb when he was in college

In comment 13696605 dpinzow said:

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of Davis Webb when he was in college

Not true. Same league and Webb ha better stats. Granted they ran more of a spread offense, but then again he had all underclass WR's and a so-so team (much like UCLA). I think his senior season was the same worst case.

pick if he decides to come out. IMO, Rosen is the only guy who will definitely be a top pick. The other QB's could all slip out of the round like Webb did, they all have question marks.

and build something resembling a functional offensive line that can actually sustain a drive

In comment 13696560 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 13696468 Hilary said: Quote: The giants were reluctant to give Fluker or Darkwa a chance to play.They need to put everyone on the field in order to evaluate their own talent before free agency and the draft. Also they need to establish his value.If he plays and plays well they may be able to trade him for a valuable pick. This is the 70's all over again when we'd all cheer for Walker Gillette, Jerry Golsteyn, Joe Dawkins and Doug Kotar (God rest his soul) and think these guys could be good when in fact, they were never was's and ham and eggers. Darkwa is a ham and egger, Fluker is a never was, Webb a raw rookie project. These guys seem to be viable alternatives because this is a bad team. On Jan 1 when a new GM and new HC comes in here, I doubt any of these guys survive the roster purge.

I was thinking something similar and I hope the prediction is right

Anyone here thinking Webb is as good or better a prospect then Rosen or Darnold because of stats doesn't watch the games. I watch all the Pac-12 games and you can't compare Rosen or Darnold to Webb. Webb was mostly a check down quarterback at Cal. For those who don't know,Webb transferred to Cal. after getting beaten out by Mahomes at Texas Tech. There are reasons why a quarterback who is 6-5 with a terrific arm and a football junkie doesn't get selected until late in the 3rd round. Scouts make mistakes all the time but not usually with quarterbacks with Webb's attributes. The Giants have to select a quarterback as if Webb doesn't exist. For those who believe in stats, how many 3rd round picks has Reese selected that have been any good?

Are there any other Giant fans from the west coast who watched Webb play last year, with opinions?

I am glad you have asked for other opinions besides folks who just go by stats. BTW,folks who say that Web''s stats last year were as good or better then Darnold's should look them up. They weren't. Also,we are comparing stats for a 5th year senior with plenty of experience to an inexperienced redshirt sophomore who didn't start until the 4th game.
Rosen is a much better pure thrower then both Webb and Darnold and most likely will go #1 in the draft.

In comment 13696740 Marty866b said:

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I am glad you have asked for other opinions besides folks who just go by stats. BTW,folks who say that Web''s stats last year were as good or better then Darnold's should look them up. They weren't. Also,we are comparing stats for a 5th year senior with plenty of experience to an inexperienced redshirt sophomore who didn't start until the 4th game. Rosen is a much better pure thrower then both Webb and Darnold and most likely will go #1 in the draft.

Why would you say that. Webb had 650 more yards, 13 more TDs, and the same number of Ints. Webb threw the ball almost 200 times more which makes the lack of Ints even more impressive. Give Darnold those extra passes and I estimate the total yards would be approximately the same. So I look at this and say that Webbs totals are better. Even giving Darnold more attempts, he would only roughly tie Webb for yards, be likely 5-10 less in TD's, and be signicantly more in Ints, against the same competition.

Webb (12 games)
4,300 yards, 37 TDs, 12 Ints, Comp % 61.6
Darnold (12 games)
3,462 yards 24 TDS 12 Ints, Comp % 63

to agree with Marty. I live on the east coast, but saw a number of Webb's games. Webb has a strong arm, works hard, loves football, and has some mobility. But 65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS. In his defense, the spread offense he ran at Cal didn't require a lot of reads or throws to the second or third levels. His downfield passes were mostly "rail" throws up the sideline.

Webb was a good pick in the third round. I was concerned that the Giants might draft Webb in the first round. Some of their scouts apparently gave him a first round grade. Remember that everyone thought the Giants would be a playoff team, and therefore have no chance of getting Rosen, Darnold, or Jackson. That would have left Mayfield, Rudolph, and Falk.

Can Webb succeed Eli? We don't know. I'd like to see him at least be the #2, but understand if he's inactive all year.

Whether the Giants should or shouldn't pass on a QB because of Webb is something we'll be rightly debating until the pick is made. What we can all hopefully agree on is that the decision should be made by a new GM.

All of this assumes of course that there is a decision to be made. We may not have the #1 pick, which we would probably need for Rosen. Darnold may stay in school. I'd be surprised if the Giants took Allen with a top five pick.

In comment 13696757 PatersonPlank said:

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In comment 13696740 Marty866b said: Quote: I am glad you have asked for other opinions besides folks who just go by stats. BTW,folks who say that Web''s stats last year were as good or better then Darnold's should look them up. They weren't. Also,we are comparing stats for a 5th year senior with plenty of experience to an inexperienced redshirt sophomore who didn't start until the 4th game. Rosen is a much better pure thrower then both Webb and Darnold and most likely will go #1 in the draft. Why would you say that. Webb had 650 more yards, 13 more TDs, and the same number of Ints. Webb threw the ball almost 200 times more which makes the lack of Ints even more impressive. Give Darnold those extra passes and I estimate the total yards would be approximately the same. So I look at this and say that Webbs totals are better. Even giving Darnold more attempts, he would only roughly tie Webb for yards, be likely 5-10 less in TD's, and be signicantly more in Ints, against the same competition. Webb (12 games) 4,300 yards, 37 TDs, 12 Ints, Comp % 61.6 Darnold (12 games) 3,462 yards 24 TDS 12 Ints, Comp % 63

Oh I see. I was comparing Webbs final season with Darnolds final season (this season) just to make it a fair comparison. I was not comparing Darnold's sophomore season to Webbs season last year (I haven't even looked at the stats for that). Also Webb had all underclassmen WR's since their top 5 graduated in 2015.

All I am saying is that Webb can play, was highly regarded, did just as well in college, and should be given a chance. Just because he slipped in the draft isn't a reason if the Giants are liking what they see.

I came away with wanting either one of Rosen or Darnold next April.

Please post Darnold's 2016 to Webb's 2016. Same league,same year. Darnold didn't start until game 4.

In comment 13696757 PatersonPlank said:

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In comment 13696740 Marty866b said: Quote: I am glad you have asked for other opinions besides folks who just go by stats. BTW,folks who say that Web''s stats last year were as good or better then Darnold's should look them up. They weren't. Also,we are comparing stats for a 5th year senior with plenty of experience to an inexperienced redshirt sophomore who didn't start until the 4th game. Rosen is a much better pure thrower then both Webb and Darnold and most likely will go #1 in the draft. Why would you say that. Webb had 650 more yards, 13 more TDs, and the same number of Ints. Webb threw the ball almost 200 times more which makes the lack of Ints even more impressive. Give Darnold those extra passes and I estimate the total yards would be approximately the same. So I look at this and say that Webbs totals are better. Even giving Darnold more attempts, he would only roughly tie Webb for yards, be likely 5-10 less in TD's, and be signicantly more in Ints, against the same competition. Webb (12 games) 4,300 yards, 37 TDs, 12 Ints, Comp % 61.6 Darnold (12 games) 3,462 yards 24 TDS 12 Ints, Comp % 63

Look at the yards per attempt, Webb dinked and dunked a lot in college. Thats not to say he won't be any good, but theres more to the story than the stats you posted above

.

In comment 13696541 jeff57 said:

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But they can't do anything to offend Eli.

What does this mean?

.

In comment 13696605 dpinzow said:

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of Davis Webb when he was in college

I agree. It’s a significant difference. Further, Rosen and Darnold seem built to handle the spotlight on big stages. That’s a key intangible.