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NFT: Lakers roll, Lonzo Rules

Stan in LA : 11/19/2017 11:58 pm
ANOTHER triple double. 11 points, 11 assists 16 rebounds. Not bad for someone who 'sucks'.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  
Jints in Carolina : 11/20/2017 12:03 am : link
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Wonder if Lavar wins this next level against the mega boss monster  
DennyInDenville : 11/20/2017 12:12 am : link
Doubtful
I think you'd garner more respect  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 12:17 am : link
and not considered such a joke if you ever owned up to being wrong and didn't just show up to blow smoke up your own ass.
Is he shooting over 30% yet?  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/20/2017 12:25 am : link
BUST
He  
StingerProf : 11/20/2017 12:29 am : link
Good.
Go  
Reb8thVA : 11/20/2017 12:39 am : link
Celtics!
RE: Go  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/20/2017 12:46 am : link
In comment 13698592 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Celtics!


Tatum is ten times the player Ball is
Laker fans are gonna be so conflicted when LeGM gets to LA  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/20/2017 12:47 am : link
and ships Lonzo out the door for Tristan Thompson
Another night of 30% shooting  
KWALL2 : 11/20/2017 12:48 am : link
And 25% from 3.

He's consistently overmatched. It's only going to get worse his 2nd and 3rd time around the league.

Enjoy your triple double.
How is his  
xman : 11/20/2017 12:50 am : link
defense?
In fairness  
speedywheels : 11/20/2017 12:51 am : link
He did almost break 40% shooting to get his 11 points, so that's an improvement..
When are you guys going to realize  
montanagiant : 11/20/2017 12:53 am : link
That you are getting trolled by "Lemon Party" Stan?
RE: Another night of 30% shooting  
Rflairr : 11/20/2017 1:20 am : link
In comment 13698598 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
And 25% from 3.

He's consistently overmatched. It's only going to get worse his 2nd and 3rd time around the league.

Enjoy your triple double.


lol ok
Ok?  
KWALL2 : 11/20/2017 1:49 am : link
You've been watching? He sucks. He's physically overmatched on defense. His offensive game blows too. He's an easy guy for any NBA player to defend. An easy matchup.

If you haven't seen it yet you've got your Laker cheerleading glasses on. You need more time?

Lakers picked the wrong guy. Here is Tatum making a simple play that Ball will never make. Just slide right and shoot. Simple. A basic move for any player. He can't do it.



Ball can't get this shot off.

It's one of many issues he has.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/20/2017 2:10 am : link
Quote:
If you haven't seen it yet you've got your Laker cheerleading glasses on.


Always.
I guess this is going to be a thing  
illmatic : 11/20/2017 2:38 am : link
once every week or two when he has a good game and the Lakers win. Lonzo sucks, sorry.
RE: I guess this is going to be a thing  
Matt M. : 11/20/2017 5:52 am : link
In comment 13698620 illmatic said:
Quote:
once every week or two when he has a good game and the Lakers win. Lonzo sucks, sorry.
Well, you certainly won't hear from him when Ball has his more typical (at this point) 2 for 9 shooting night and let's hisnopposite spot up for clean jumpers.
Ball is perfect for LA  
WideRight : 11/20/2017 8:23 am : link
Lots of hype and no chance of winning anything meaningful
Gonna need to have triple doubles if he shoots like this  
Heisenberg : 11/20/2017 9:00 am : link
He's like a Jason Kidd who can't shoot even as well as Jason Kidd (at least so far... shooting can often improve).

But shooting 30% and 22% from 3? that's bad.
Kidd  
Pep22 : 11/20/2017 9:16 am : link
was also a plus defender and played with great pace.
Comparing Lonzo to Kidd  
Section331 : 11/20/2017 9:34 am : link
is ludicrous. Kidd was never a good shooter, especially early in his career, but he could always handle the ball, get to the rim, and play defense, 3 things Lonzo has shown zero ability to do. Now name one thing Lonzo does better than Kidd?
The more people comment about Lonzo playing zero defense,  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 9:38 am : link
the one part of his game that has surprised nearly all basketball watchers so far, the more I realize people simply check box scores and single out the gifs of players when they get beat before stating their opinion.
A Michael Carter Williams triple double  
dpinzow : 11/20/2017 10:13 am : link
triple doubles are nice but overrated
Wins are overrated.  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 10:30 am : link
- BBI on Dak Prescott, 2016

Credit where credit is due goes out the window when we don't like a player (or their parents (childish)).

People keep changing the narrative. He shot a low percentage, his 16 boards (most for a rookie guard since 2000, tied Embiid's career high) and 11 assists don't count I guess. It's also important to only note his +/- when it's in the negative. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

KWALL asked if we need to actually see more before cementing the current opinion on Lonzo as fact. 20 years old, 17 games into his career, I'd say it would be nice to wait a little longer.
Yeah, he's got some holes in his game.  
Beezer : 11/20/2017 10:38 am : link
Wasn't crazy about him walking away from his teammates in the skirmish. Not a good look.

But he appears to be a pretty good pro, and just 20.

As a Knicks fan, I'm really excited about how Frank is beginning to blossom a bit. Different person, different style. And I'm glad the Knicks have Frank and lot Lonzo (all things considered - yes, I'm childish and wouldn't want to have his father in the picture for years to come) ... but all in all, he looks like a keeper.
The guy watching the box score  
KWALL2 : 11/20/2017 10:42 am : link
Is the guy starting these threads.

It started after game 3 or 4 when he posted about Ball being the leading rookie of the year after the Suns game. That was a joke. But he's consistent with this joke. Looks like we'll have a Ball thread every 8-10 days from Stan.
RE: Wins are overrated.  
giants#1 : 11/20/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13698978 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
- BBI on Dak Prescott, 2016

Credit where credit is due goes out the window when we don't like a player (or their parents (childish)).

People keep changing the narrative. He shot a low percentage, his 16 boards (most for a rookie guard since 2000, tied Embiid's career high) and 11 assists don't count I guess. It's also important to only note his +/- when it's in the negative. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

KWALL asked if we need to actually see more before cementing the current opinion on Lonzo as fact. 20 years old, 17 games into his career, I'd say it would be nice to wait a little longer.


Not sure Dak is the best comp. Have you seen him this season? Especially without Zeke and with "only" 2 all-pros in front of him.

Dak = Alex Smith

Wentz, unfortunately, is going to be a good one (already is).
giants#1,  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 10:50 am : link
I dated my point 2016!
RE: Wins are overrated.  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/20/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13698978 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
- BBI on Dak Prescott, 2016

Credit where credit is due goes out the window when we don't like a player (or their parents (childish)).

People keep changing the narrative. He shot a low percentage, his 16 boards (most for a rookie guard since 2000, tied Embiid's career high) and 11 assists don't count I guess. It's also important to only note his +/- when it's in the negative. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

KWALL asked if we need to actually see more before cementing the current opinion on Lonzo as fact. 20 years old, 17 games into his career, I'd say it would be nice to wait a little longer.

Filthy,

In fairness, the narrative has less to do with Lonzo's game as much as it does with Stan showing up to puff out his chest for Ball's occasional good game while not even returning to his own threads to reply when Ball has (much more frequent) poor games. And then bragging about how he's always right.

This is every bit as much about Stan's douchebaggery as it is about Lonzo Ball's development, if not more. I feel like Stan makes Lonzo even more unlikable than LaVar Ball does. That's really the issue. Would people still dog Lonzo because of his dad? Of course. But Stan just amplifies it.
It is certainly fair to ask for more time  
Section331 : 11/20/2017 10:56 am : link
to evaluate Lonzo's game, but his struggles aren't so much about missed shots, but in how he's missing them; not so much in that he struggles to handle the ball, but moreso that he refuses to do it. Those are huge red flags. Fixable? Sure, but not without a ton of work.

Steph Curry remade his game and his body while in the NBA, so it can be done, but Steph was always a lights out shooter. Lonzo can tighten his ballhandling with some work, but his shooting needs to be completely overhauled. He can't create his own shot, hell, he can't even make open shots!
Every superstar does at least 1 thing at an elite level  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2017 10:56 am : link
what does ball do that is elite? if you are going to be a superstar in this league you have to change the game in some way...

RE: Every superstar does at least 1 thing at an elite level  
Section331 : 11/20/2017 10:58 am : link
In comment 13699040 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
what does ball do that is elite? if you are going to be a superstar in this league you have to change the game in some way...


In fairness, I'd say his court vision is elite, and his rebounding is above average. It's just that, right now, other basic parts of his game are severely lacking.
Gatorade,  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 11:00 am : link
I'm fine with people dumping on Stan and usually take part. Howevah this same Lonzo conversation has been going on on BBI since before the draft. Stan posting an I told you so after every positive Lonzo moment is the same as the I told you so posts when he is 0 for 2 in a quarter.
RE: RE: Every superstar does at least 1 thing at an elite level  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13699044 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13699040 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


what does ball do that is elite? if you are going to be a superstar in this league you have to change the game in some way...




In fairness, I'd say his court vision is elite, and his rebounding is above average. It's just that, right now, other basic parts of his game are severely lacking.


he has great vision but he cant break down a defense, so that kind of mitigates his great vision
RE: Gatorade,  
giants#1 : 11/20/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13699048 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
I'm fine with people dumping on Stan and usually take part. Howevah this same Lonzo conversation has been going on on BBI since before the draft. Stan posting an I told you so after every positive Lonzo moment is the same as the I told you so posts when he is 0 for 2 in a quarter.


Except Stan's posts are far less frequent! :)

RE: Every superstar does at least 1 thing at an elite level  
giants#1 : 11/20/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13699040 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
what does ball do that is elite? if you are going to be a superstar in this league you have to change the game in some way...


How many 20 year old rookies have elite skills? He has some skills that could develop and become elite.

Whether he becomes a superstar or not will depend on whether or not he can fix his considerable flaws. Even if he was an elite penetrator, his effectiveness would be muted if he can't even knock down open 3s (see Rondo).
Ball's rebounds  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/20/2017 11:21 am : link
are overrated, just like Westbrook's. They are primarily defensive rebounds, where the team has him get them by design so that he can push the pace on offense.

They should be credited that their teams want them to have the ball from the outset of a possession, but there's nothing inherently impressive about him getting those team defensive rebounds.
Eh,  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 11:29 am : link
the team purposely has him crash the boards because they want the ball in his hands as soon as possible. Teammates are not boxing out the opposition and refusing to make an attempt to grab a rebound themselves while hoping Lonzo pulls it down. His effort, hustle and work on the boards has been impressive.

If he was averaging 5 blocks per game we'd hear that those are overrated because for all we know the shooter is purposely throwing it into Ball's hand.
RE: RE: Every superstar does at least 1 thing at an elite level  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13699066 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13699040 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


what does ball do that is elite? if you are going to be a superstar in this league you have to change the game in some way...




How many 20 year old rookies have elite skills? He has some skills that could develop and become elite.

Whether he becomes a superstar or not will depend on whether or not he can fix his considerable flaws. Even if he was an elite penetrator, his effectiveness would be muted if he can't even knock down open 3s (see Rondo).


there are players that come out of nowhere ie kawhi or butler but a lot of times you can see what a player is great at right away...

it may be inconsistent but a great player you can see the aspect that js going to make them specjal right away...
RE: Eh,  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13699117 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
the team purposely has him crash the boards because they want the ball in his hands as soon as possible. Teammates are not boxing out the opposition and refusing to make an attempt to grab a rebound themselves while hoping Lonzo pulls it down. His effort, hustle and work on the boards has been impressive.

If he was averaging 5 blocks per game we'd hear that those are overrated because for all we know the shooter is purposely throwing it into Ball's hand.


let me ask you a question, if ball was to become a cornerstone franchise player for the lakers that he was toutrd to be, what part of his game is going to make him that? what has he shown glimpses of that makes you confident that he can live up to that hype...

right now i dont see it..
agree to disagree  
giants#1 : 11/20/2017 11:35 am : link
I'd argue if a skill is "inconsistent" then it's not "elite".

You could also argue that a players other flaws (e.g. difficulty penetrating) could be the reason for those inconsistencies. Thus, if Ball improves his penetrating, his floor vision which has shown flashes of being elite, could go from an inconsistent skill to an elite skill.

But if he doesn't improve his shooting significantly, he's closer to Rondo than Kidd/Magic.
RE: Ball's rebounds  
Heisenberg : 11/20/2017 11:36 am : link
In comment 13699100 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
are overrated, just like Westbrook's. They are primarily defensive rebounds, where the team has him get them by design so that he can push the pace on offense.

They should be credited that their teams want them to have the ball from the outset of a possession, but there's nothing inherently impressive about him getting those team defensive rebounds.


You guys are making me into a Ball defender and I don't want to be, lol.

Ball is third among all guards in ORB. And designing a system so your guard get rebounds to start a break is not a thing. Rebounding is a Knack and of all of Ball's attributes, I think rebounding is his most reliable. He looks for them and has a knack of getting them.
RE: agree to disagree  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13699127 giants#1 said:
Quote:
I'd argue if a skill is "inconsistent" then it's not "elite".

You could also argue that a players other flaws (e.g. difficulty penetrating) could be the reason for those inconsistencies. Thus, if Ball improves his penetrating, his floor vision which has shown flashes of being elite, could go from an inconsistent skill to an elite skill.

But if he doesn't improve his shooting significantly, he's closer to Rondo than Kidd/Magic.


inconsistent was the wrong word to use but you can absolutely see star qualities in rookies..

again there are absolutely examples of players coming out of nowhere
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 11:41 am : link
Quote:
nygiants16 : 11:32 am : link : reply
let me ask you a question, if ball was to become a cornerstone franchise player for the lakers that he was toutrd to be, what part of his game is going to make him that? what has he shown glimpses of that makes you confident that he can live up to that hype...

Well, I didn't come in with thoughts about him being a franchise player. Two things that can't be taught, vision and athleticism. He has one of those. He is still learning how to play in the halfcourt. The fact that he is missing wide open shots tells me it's mental, which he said as much. That should eventually normalize and when it does he should (but won't be) considered a very, very good player.

An average shot combined with his vision, rebounding and surprising defense (for those who watch) will make him a very valuable player who can make those around him better. Doesn't have to end up as a cornerstone hall of famer to make his mark for this franchise. I don't listen to what dads or front office folks say who are simply trying to either improve your kid's draft status or fire up a fan base.
i will gice examples from this draft  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2017 11:43 am : link
if smith jr is going to be a superstar it is his scoring and dribble penetration..

if frank becomes a star it will be his defense..

if monk becomes a star it will be his shooting and scoring ability..

for tatum he just has it, he can score and he can play multiple positions, will be interesting to see if he can become a go to scorer..

markannen is his shooting..

ball what is it?
Again, the problem with Lonzo isn't that he's missing shots,  
Section331 : 11/20/2017 11:48 am : link
it's that he cannot create them. You can gloss it over as him pressing, but it is a lot more than that. His poor handle and lack of athleticism makes it difficult for him to be a penetrator, and for him to create his own shot, he's going to have to learn to shoot it from somewhere else than that ugly set shot from his chest.

It can be done, but it's going to take a lot of work. He can tighten his ballhandling and get stronger, both of which will help him get to the rim, but he has to learn how to shoot when he gets there. He has to be the first PG I've seen who doesn't handle the ball.
On Lonzo's defense,  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 11:59 am : link
that was supposed to be his #1 weakness coming in yet has turned into the biggest surprise. He is still learning and makes mistakes. Needs to get better at communicating and sometimes makes the right call but in the wrong fashion. For instance trying to funnel his man into a trap but doing so to the left when he should have had him go right, vice versa, etc etc.

It is also very difficult to rate a players defensive game on stats alone. Way too many factors are not taken into account. The eye test helps but again, factors. The viewer has no idea what the scheme was supposed to be on the play.

For those who care about stats, this post is stolen from Reddit:

Quote:
Lonzo is currently 6th in DRtg amongst guards, 4th amongst rookies and 26th in the league.

Criteria: at least 10 MP/G, minimum 5 games played. Any less wouldn't be a suitable enough sample size.
Amongst guards: bbal reference
Amongst rookies: bball reference
In the league: bball reference
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/20/2017 12:04 pm : link
Quote:
That should eventually normalize and when it does he should (but won't be) considered a very, very good player.


I think we all thought that he'd be a good #2 piece in 2018-2019 behind LeBron in 18-19 and a great #3 piece once we get Porzingis in a S&T in 2019.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 12:07 pm : link
Quote:
BrettNYG10 : 12:04 pm : link : reply
I think we all thought that he'd be a good #2 piece in 2018-2019 behind LeBron in 18-19 and a great #3 piece once we get Porzingis in a S&T in 2019.

Might not have to wait that long for Porzingis. Just need Magic to convince the Knicks how much they need Deng and his contract.
Lonzo will be the best player in this draft  
est1986 : 11/20/2017 12:18 pm : link
.
Not so fast.  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 12:21 pm : link
Quote:
Lonzo will be the best player in this draft
est1986 : 12:18 pm : link : reply

RE: RE: Ball's rebounds  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/20/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13699130 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13699100 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


are overrated, just like Westbrook's. They are primarily defensive rebounds, where the team has him get them by design so that he can push the pace on offense.

They should be credited that their teams want them to have the ball from the outset of a possession, but there's nothing inherently impressive about him getting those team defensive rebounds.



You guys are making me into a Ball defender and I don't want to be, lol.

Ball is third among all guards in ORB. And designing a system so your guard get rebounds to start a break is not a thing. Rebounding is a Knack and of all of Ball's attributes, I think rebounding is his most reliable. He looks for them and has a knack of getting them.


It is absolutely a thing. The Thunder have been doing it with Westbrook and the Lakers do it with Ball. It's a team strategy thinking that it gets the ball up the court faster and into their sets faster.

I have no issue crediting Ball with his offensive rebounds.
RE: RE: RE: Ball's rebounds  
Heisenberg : 11/20/2017 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13699254 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
In comment 13699130 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 13699100 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


are overrated, just like Westbrook's. They are primarily defensive rebounds, where the team has him get them by design so that he can push the pace on offense.

They should be credited that their teams want them to have the ball from the outset of a possession, but there's nothing inherently impressive about him getting those team defensive rebounds.



You guys are making me into a Ball defender and I don't want to be, lol.

Ball is third among all guards in ORB. And designing a system so your guard get rebounds to start a break is not a thing. Rebounding is a Knack and of all of Ball's attributes, I think rebounding is his most reliable. He looks for them and has a knack of getting them.



It is absolutely a thing. The Thunder have been doing it with Westbrook and the Lakers do it with Ball. It's a team strategy thinking that it gets the ball up the court faster and into their sets faster.

I have no issue crediting Ball with his offensive rebounds.


How has OKC designed their system so their point guard gets the rebound?
If you mean the Lakers have Ball crash  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 1:20 pm : link
along with his big men instead of getting out in transition, sure. Some teams don't have their PG doing that as much. He still has to go in there and get that rebound though.
Heisenberg  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/20/2017 1:28 pm : link
often, defensive rebounds are uncontested or have three defensive players boxing out one offensive player, leading to an easy team rebound. The Thunder (and the Lakers) will box out as such so that Westbrook/Ball collect them so they can immediately push up the pace.

Overall, I think defensive rebounds are overrated (and I'd rather look at team rebounding percentage when the player is on the floor).

I haven't seen the THunder has much this season, so I don't know if it is still emphasized, but it was absolutely what they were doing last season.
RE: Heisenberg  
Heisenberg : 11/20/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13699331 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
often, defensive rebounds are uncontested or have three defensive players boxing out one offensive player, leading to an easy team rebound. The Thunder (and the Lakers) will box out as such so that Westbrook/Ball collect them so they can immediately push up the pace.

Overall, I think defensive rebounds are overrated (and I'd rather look at team rebounding percentage when the player is on the floor).

I haven't seen the THunder has much this season, so I don't know if it is still emphasized, but it was absolutely what they were doing last season.


It seems you're saying that the bigs defer to Westbrook so that he can get the rebound and start the break. I'd say that can only happen on an uncontested board and really how often can that happen a game? Seems a bit overblown as a critique to me.
RE: ==========  
Giantology : 11/20/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13699221 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


BrettNYG10 : 12:04 pm : link : reply
I think we all thought that he'd be a good #2 piece in 2018-2019 behind LeBron in 18-19 and a great #3 piece once we get Porzingis in a S&T in 2019.


Might not have to wait that long for Porzingis. Just need Magic to convince the Knicks how much they need Deng and his contract.


Yall can both fuck off, KP ain't never leaving NY.
RE: Lonzo will be the best player in this draft  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/20/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13699247 est1986 said:
Quote:
.


Good one! I needed that laugh, thanks
RE: Go  
MotownGIANTS : 11/20/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13698592 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Celtics!



Streaking .....
Lonzo  
DanMetroMan : 11/20/2017 3:53 pm : link
padded stats?
Link - ( New Window )
RE: i will gice examples from this draft  
hitdog42 : 11/20/2017 3:58 pm : link
In comment 13699148 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
if smith jr is going to be a superstar it is his scoring and dribble penetration..

if frank becomes a star it will be his defense..

if monk becomes a star it will be his shooting and scoring ability..

for tatum he just has it, he can score and he can play multiple positions, will be interesting to see if he can become a go to scorer..

markannen is his shooting..

ball what is it?


his passing... and i dont even like the guy but to not be able to highlight his passing/vision as a potential talent... then we are just being bias. again i dont really like his game but come on
RE: Lonzo  
TyreeHelmet : 11/20/2017 4:02 pm : link
In comment 13699500 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
padded stats? Link - ( New Window )


Wow those aren't even close to being assists. The guy caught the ball, gather himself, and then made a driving move to the hoop. In what universe is that an assist?
RE: RE: Lonzo  
Section331 : 11/20/2017 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13699519 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13699500 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


padded stats? Link - ( New Window )

Wow those aren't even close to being assists. The guy caught the ball, gather himself, and then made a driving move to the hoop. In what universe is that an assist?


Every home scorer gives home players benefit of doubt. Lonzo averages 7 APG at home and 7 APG on the road. Nothing to see here.
RE: RE: RE: Lonzo  
TyreeHelmet : 11/20/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13699523 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13699519 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 13699500 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


padded stats? Link - ( New Window )

Wow those aren't even close to being assists. The guy caught the ball, gather himself, and then made a driving move to the hoop. In what universe is that an assist?



Every home scorer gives home players benefit of doubt. Lonzo averages 7 APG at home and 7 APG on the road. Nothing to see here.


You think those are legit assists though?
Westbrooks rebounding is a bit misleading  
KWALL2 : 11/20/2017 4:21 pm : link
He's obviously a super athletic guy who can get up for the ball. But the team helps him get a lot of those boards.

I think he set a record for a guard on uncontested rebounds last year.

He also gets a lot of these on missed FT:



They design it for him to get the rebounds. He jumps over plenty. He can beat anybody to the ball. But the rebounding numbers are a little misleading.

Ball is not a strong player. He's below average athletically. He isn't a strong rebounder. Not explosive off the floor either. He doesn't get to the ball like Westbrook. I hear Kidd mentioned again with Ball. Kidd was an elite athlete. He could beat NBA players physically for rebounds as a rookie. Ball isn't close to that kind of player.

Yesterday he played 40 minuted on a night when how many missed 3s were out there for long rebounds? There were 40 missed 3s in the game.

The guy moves the ball around. He can pass. His game falls apart after that.

Assist numbers can also be misleading. Is he out there breaking down defenders and teams and giving his team easy baskets? No hes not. He's one of the easiest players in the league to defend. You can back off him and help others. You can back off and take a break on that end of the court.

Yesterday two of his assists came on inbound passes. Hey, great assist for that triple double:



He had a couple of nice drives last night. That was a little encouraging but he's still a mess at this point. Even with the drives he still didn't finish strong at the rim.

After 15 games or so, it doesn't look good for him in the NBA.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lonzo  
Section331 : 11/20/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13699525 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:

You think those are legit assists though?


Some are definitely home cooking, but I wonder how it would look for any team's home scoring. As in baseball, one scorer's hit is another's error.
None of Lonzo's stats matter  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 9:15 pm : link
because I had already decided how I feel about him coming in.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 9:26 pm : link
Quote:
KWALL2 : 4:21 pm : link : reply
After 15 games or so, it doesn't look good for him in the NBA.

Quote:
After 15 games or so

Quote:
15 games
RE: ==========  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/20/2017 9:52 pm : link
In comment 13699806 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


KWALL2 : 4:21 pm : link : reply
After 15 games or so, it doesn't look good for him in the NBA.




Quote:


After 15 games or so




Quote:


15 games


Ball sucks  
UConn4523 : 11/20/2017 9:53 pm : link
and this thread is hilarious
15?  
KWALL2 : 11/21/2017 1:13 am : link
2 games was enough for me.

He's terrible with very little hope to be nothing more than a below average NBA G. I don't need to see more. 2 games was enough.
RE: Ball sucks  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/21/2017 6:28 am : link
In comment 13699833 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and this thread is hilarious


+1.
Another great night for Lonzo  
Stan in LA : 11/22/2017 12:56 am : link
8 Points, 15 rebounds and 4 assists and the Lakers win. But Lonzo sucks, BBI said so. Have so many people have ever been so wrong? Crow is on the menu.
RE: Another great night for Lonzo  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/22/2017 1:05 am : link
In comment 13701020 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
8 Points, 15 rebounds and 4 assists and the Lakers win. But Lonzo sucks, BBI said so. Have so many people have ever been so wrong? Crow is on the menu.


8 points is great? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
He shot 3-13 against one of the worst teams in the league  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/22/2017 1:06 am : link
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Stan may have a point  
speedywheels : 11/22/2017 1:39 am : link
3-13 shooting night may actually INCREASE his overall season percentage, we’ll have to check the math...
I would never dismiss a player so early  
bceagle05 : 11/22/2017 2:21 am : link
but man, Lonzo's got a lot of work to do.
RE: Another great night for Lonzo  
Mike from SI : 11/22/2017 3:36 am : link
In comment 13701020 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
8 Points, 15 rebounds and 4 assists and the Lakers win. But Lonzo sucks, BBI said so. Have so many people have ever been so wrong? Crow is on the menu.


A point guard getting 8 points, 4 assists, and 15 rebounds? Odd. It's almost as if they're scheming to get him rebounds. Almost.
RE: Another great night for Lonzo  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/22/2017 5:02 am : link
In comment 13701020 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
8 Points, 15 rebounds and 4 assists and the Lakers win. But Lonzo sucks, BBI said so. Have so many people have ever been so wrong? Crow is on the menu.


You're a caricature at this point.
I have a rule of thumb on any controversial issue...  
Sarcastic Sam : 11/22/2017 6:38 am : link
I search BBI to see what Stan in LA has to say about it, and if my opinion matches Stan's, I know that I'm in the wrong. Many apology emails have been sent, friendships restore, and civility persists. Thank you, Stan, for your insight.
3 of 13 shooting  
UConn4523 : 11/22/2017 6:45 am : link
is good
sad that on my ESPN app  
hitdog42 : 11/22/2017 6:53 am : link
the lead headline is "ball has 13 rebounds in Lakers win"---- they are desperate for guys with drama around them to be relevant
Didnt his father just call out the coaching staff  
nygiants16 : 11/22/2017 8:59 am : link
callinf them soft and saying they do not know how to coach his son?
...  
christian : 11/22/2017 9:06 am : link
Ainge, who I don't always love, comes away looking pretty good with the trade down. Especially if that Lakers pick gets him the no. 2 overall.

Look for that pick to end being several first rounders somehow down the line.
RE: ...  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/22/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13701096 christian said:
Quote:
Ainge, who I don't always love, comes away looking pretty good with the trade down. Especially if that Lakers pick gets him the no. 2 overall.

Look for that pick to end being several first rounders somehow down the line.


Yep the Celtics got a player ten times better than Ball
I don't think Lonzo should be the comparison.  
GiantFilthy : 11/22/2017 9:09 am : link
Fultz should be, as he was just about universally considered the best player in the draft and Boston passed up the opportunity to have him.
RE: I don't think Lonzo should be the comparison.  
christian : 11/22/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13701101 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Fultz should be, as he was just about universally considered the best player in the draft and Boston passed up the opportunity to have him.


Passing on Fultz landed the Celtics Tatum and the Lakers pick. Here's hoping Ball and the Lakers aren't awful enough to be odds on favorite for the no. 1 overall.

Just bad enough to land in that 2-5 range.

Based on the very, very early reads looks like Tatum is more NBA ready and more valuable this year.

If the Lakers had taken Tatum they would have 1) put Ainge in a horrible position to with what to do with Ball 2) likely been better in the immediate term and decrease the odds the Celtics get a great pick.

RE: RE: I don't think Lonzo should be the comparison.  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/22/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13701159 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13701101 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


Fultz should be, as he was just about universally considered the best player in the draft and Boston passed up the opportunity to have him.



Passing on Fultz landed the Celtics Tatum and the Lakers pick. Here's hoping Ball and the Lakers aren't awful enough to be odds on favorite for the no. 1 overall.

Just bad enough to land in that 2-5 range.

Based on the very, very early reads looks like Tatum is more NBA ready and more valuable this year.

If the Lakers had taken Tatum they would have 1) put Ainge in a horrible position to with what to do with Ball 2) likely been better in the immediate term and decrease the odds the Celtics get a great pick.


This. And Stan is a Knicks fan so the Lakers being idiots only helped the Celtics, which in turn hurts the Knicks. Gotta love it. Ball is Igawa 2.0
Lakers are idiots for not taking Tatum  
GiantFilthy : 11/22/2017 10:10 am : link
and doing what with Ingram?
15 rebounds?  
KWALL2 : 11/22/2017 10:28 am : link
Stan going with the Lakers scorekeeper with that number.

Another fail.
RE: Lakers are idiots for not taking Tatum  
christian : 11/22/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13701179 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
and doing what with Ingram?


Are the Celtics idiots for taking Tatum and doing "what" with Brown?

Versatile wings can play together, or so it seems.

Brown can and does play SG  
GiantFilthy : 11/22/2017 3:19 pm : link
and they weren't going to change a thing with Ingram. Lakers also already had a SG on the roster they were paying $12 million to while their largest weakness was a distributing point guard.
Lonzo with another outstanding game last night  
Stan in LA : 11/23/2017 12:44 pm : link
11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds. A couple of rebounds shy of becoming the 3 fastest player in NBA HISTORY to record their 3rd career triple double. Wowza!
RE: Lonzo with another outstanding game last night  
DennyInDenville : 11/23/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13702094 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds. A couple of rebounds shy of becoming the 3 fastest player in NBA HISTORY to record their 3rd career triple double. Wowza!

So he's Landry Fields with passing ability?
Someone tell Stan “a couple”  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2017 1:12 pm : link
is only 2
RE: Lonzo with another outstanding game last night  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/23/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13702094 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds. A couple of rebounds shy of becoming the 3 fastest player in NBA HISTORY to record their 3rd career triple double. Wowza!


God you're insufferable.
Stan aside,  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 1:22 pm : link
missed dunks and blown gimmies last night. Should have easily had 15 assists.
RE: RE: Lonzo with another outstanding game last night  
Stan in LA : 11/23/2017 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13702111 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 13702094 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds. A couple of rebounds shy of becoming the 3 fastest player in NBA HISTORY to record their 3rd career triple double. Wowza!



God you're insufferable.


Just the facts. So you admit I was right?
Did you watch that game?  
adamg : 11/23/2017 1:34 pm : link
Lonzo looked decent passing the ball, but he's far from a good player.
RE: Stan aside,  
Stan in LA : 11/23/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13702112 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
missed dunks and blown gimmies last night. Should have easily had 15 assists.

Filthy, People don't realize how good Lonzo is/is going to be. We do because actually watch him play (and in my case 40+ games from last year). This is just the tip of the iceberg.
RE: Stan aside,  
PhiPsi125 : 11/23/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13702112 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
missed dunks and blown gimmies last night. Should have easily had 15 assists.


So I guess we should give all players credit for missed shots blown gimmies? Everyone would have triple doubles!!!
2 Laker homers  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2017 1:47 pm : link
vs the field. I’ll take the field.
RE: RE: Stan aside,  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13702118 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13702112 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


missed dunks and blown gimmies last night. Should have easily had 15 assists.



So I guess we should give all players credit for missed shots blown gimmies? Everyone would have triple doubles!!!

Yes, people should be able to put bias aside and be able to admit that a pass setting up an easy basket was a good one. Giving someone credit for a good play verbally is not the same as giving them credit on the stat sheet.
RE: Lonzo with another outstanding game last night  
dpinzow : 11/23/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13702094 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds. A couple of rebounds shy of becoming the 3 fastest player in NBA HISTORY to record their 3rd career triple double. Wowza!


Lonzo was garbage last night outside of that alley-oop, which was really impressive
RE: RE: I don't think Lonzo should be the comparison.  
BurberryManning : 11/23/2017 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13701159 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13701101 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


Fultz should be, as he was just about universally considered the best player in the draft and Boston passed up the opportunity to have him.



Passing on Fultz landed the Celtics Tatum and the Lakers pick. Here's hoping Ball and the Lakers aren't awful enough to be odds on favorite for the no. 1 overall.

Just bad enough to land in that 2-5 range.

Based on the very, very early reads looks like Tatum is more NBA ready and more valuable this year.

If the Lakers had taken Tatum they would have 1) put Ainge in a horrible position to with what to do with Ball 2) likely been better in the immediate term and decrease the odds the Celtics get a great pick.
Lets just hope Lonzo and the Lakers really are bad enough to earn the #1 pick....our Sixers would put it to good use;)
Another average game from a terribly overrated player  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/23/2017 2:40 pm : link
Thanks for embarrassing yourself again Stan, now go watch your Lemon Party gay porn.
Garbage. Average game.  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 7:05 pm : link
11-7-11 game from the rookie PG. Weird that you guys wouldn't want that on your team.
RE: Garbage. Average game.  
dpinzow : 11/23/2017 7:17 pm : link
In comment 13702234 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
11-7-11 game from the rookie PG. Weird that you guys wouldn't want that on your team.


He has the emptiest stats in the world because the Lakers are playing 4 on 5 with him on the court (can't shoot)
As a reference, Michael Carter Williams lowest shooting %  
dpinzow : 11/23/2017 7:20 pm : link
as a starting PG was 38% and is a career 40.6% shooter, and he's considered a huge liability offensively. Lonzo is at 31% shooting.

Rajon Rondo also can't shoot worth a damn by NBA standards but at least his career FG % is 46% because he can always get to the hoop
Okie dokie so there is no reasonable conversation here.  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 7:31 pm : link
You are correct about players being capped out and never improving after their first 19 games though.
RE: Okie dokie so there is no reasonable conversation here.  
dpinzow : 11/23/2017 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13702255 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
You are correct about players being capped out and never improving after their first 19 games though.


He absolutely can improve but not until that broken shot gets fixed
What do you guys mean? He's shooting .429 according to ESPN.  
manh george : 11/23/2017 7:45 pm : link
Oops, sorry, that's on free throws.

To be fair to Stan (although there is no reason to be) and to Lonzo, sometimes an truly awful stroke on a truly superior athlete can be fixed over time. No way to tell.
I don’t get it  
UConn4523 : 11/23/2017 7:53 pm : link
is Lonzo Ball the first rookie PG to post some double doubles? What is he doing that’s so unprecedented other than his horrendous shooting as a starting player?
It's only a conversation  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 8:40 pm : link
when one side goes too far calling him a superstar while the other side goes the same distance to have his defense, rebounds and assists not count for some unknown reason.
RE: It's only a conversation  
adamg : 11/23/2017 8:50 pm : link
In comment 13702331 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
when one side goes too far calling him a superstar while the other side goes the same distance to have his defense, rebounds and assists not count for some unknown reason.


One side calls him a super star. The other side says, hold your fucking horses. That's the reality. You've got some golden colored lenses...
Ok so there is a third side.  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 8:55 pm : link
The ones who post on Lonzo threads but don't read them.
RE: RE: Garbage. Average game.  
djm : 11/23/2017 11:10 pm : link
In comment 13702245 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 13702234 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


11-7-11 game from the rookie PG. Weird that you guys wouldn't want that on your team.



He has the emptiest stats in the world because the Lakers are playing 4 on 5 with him on the court (can't shoot)


Never mind his flawed shot -- How's his defense? I have only watched a little bit but from what I have seen and read his d is terrible. To me below average D and a flawed shot from the PG is concerning. He's young tho...
Again,  
GiantFilthy : 11/23/2017 11:36 pm : link
his defense is the one aspect of his game that was thought to be a weakness coming in but has been surprising and praised. He has been in the top 20 in defensive rating until last night. Top 20 in defense plus/minus, top ten in defensive win shares. Not a defensive stat but on the defensive side of the court he is currently top 20 in the league in rebounding for all positions.
RE: Again,  
Stan in LA : 11/24/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13703137 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
his defense is the one aspect of his game that was thought to be a weakness coming in but has been surprising and praised. He has been in the top 20 in defensive rating until last night. Top 20 in defense plus/minus, top ten in defensive win shares. Not a defensive stat but on the defensive side of the court he is currently top 20 in the league in rebounding for all positions.


This is so correct. His defense at UCLA last season was lacking. This year it's such a quantum improvement that it's startling. His only drawback that's still a concern is getting hurt a lot with minor injuries (ankle, groin, wrist, quad) in the last year or so. Put that aside and you get a franchise player.
RE: Garbage. Average game.  
Stan in LA : 11/24/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13702234 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
11-7-11 game from the rookie PG. Weird that you guys wouldn't want that on your team.


Yeah. Some nutty comments on this thread.
RE: RE: Garbage. Average game.  
PhiPsi125 : 11/24/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13704133 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13702234 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


11-7-11 game from the rookie PG. Weird that you guys wouldn't want that on your team.



Yeah. Some nutty comments on this thread.


You guys are adorable.
RE: RE: RE: Garbage. Average game.  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/24/2017 5:07 pm : link
In comment 13704174 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13704133 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 13702234 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


11-7-11 game from the rookie PG. Weird that you guys wouldn't want that on your team.



Yeah. Some nutty comments on this thread.



You guys are adorable.


Right! Almost as cute as Stan’s Lemon Party friends!
RE: RE: Again,  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/24/2017 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13704132 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13703137 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


his defense is the one aspect of his game that was thought to be a weakness coming in but has been surprising and praised. He has been in the top 20 in defensive rating until last night. Top 20 in defense plus/minus, top ten in defensive win shares. Not a defensive stat but on the defensive side of the court he is currently top 20 in the league in rebounding for all positions.



This is so correct. His defense at UCLA last season was lacking. This year it's such a quantum improvement that it's startling. His only drawback that's still a concern is getting hurt a lot with minor injuries (ankle, groin, wrist, quad) in the last year or so. Put that aside and you get a franchise player.

So the injuries are the only concern? Not the historically abysmal shooting? Got it.
Lakers have played one of the softest schedules in the NBA  
RGhost : 11/24/2017 7:17 pm : link
including three games against Phoenix. A majority of their games have been at home, too.

Lonzo struggling and the team going 8-11 during this easy stretch isn't exactly encouraging.

The Lakers start going up against playoff teams next week.

There will be a lot better book on Lonzo after he's played GSW, OKC, Rockets and Spurs instead of all the teams who will be in the Top 5 in the next Lottery.
Another great night for Tatum  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/24/2017 9:44 pm : link
I’d make a thread every time he plays well but i don’t want to spam the board every time the Celtics play.
Ball fantasyland is over soon  
KWALL2 : 11/24/2017 10:19 pm : link
He may have a have a couple of games with rebounds/assists on occasion but his game doesn't measure up even in those rare games. Those numbers don't say he's a good player. That's clear to most outside of some Laker fans.

Some don't want to say it yet like Reggie Miller. You know Miller knows it but he doesn't want to say it yet especially on a UCLA player. But he sees it and you can tell by the way he talks about Ball.

He's in for a bad run coming up. Lakers have a stretch of games that will crush Ball fans. By early Jan, all hope will be lost on Ball as much of a player for the Lakers.
Tatum?  
KWALL2 : 11/24/2017 10:20 pm : link
He's the guy the Lakers should have drafted. It's not close between the 2 prospects. The Lakers blew a layup with that pick.
What kind of a fan gives up on their team's rookie  
GiantFilthy : 11/24/2017 11:14 pm : link
a couple of months into their career? Don't project yourself on Laker fans.
RE: What kind of a fan gives up on their team's rookie  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/25/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13704430 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
a couple of months into their career? Don't project yourself on Laker fans.

In fairness, this is BBI. Giving up on rookies a couple of months into their career is kind of a common practice here.
RE: What kind of a fan gives up on their team's rookie  
BigBlueShock : 11/25/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13704430 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
a couple of months into their career? Don't project yourself on Laker fans.

To be fair, Stanley proclaiming him to be a franchise player and telling everyone to be afraid of him is at least as laughable.

It has to suck to feel like you have to rush to Stan’s defense simply because your stuck being a fan of the same team. It obviously doesn’t bode well for you knowing Stan’s horrific track record.
RE: RE: What kind of a fan gives up on their team's rookie  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/25/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13704652 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13704430 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


a couple of months into their career? Don't project yourself on Laker fans.


To be fair, Stanley proclaiming him to be a franchise player and telling everyone to be afraid of him is at least as laughable.

It has to suck to feel like you have to rush to Stan’s defense simply because your stuck being a fan of the same team. It obviously doesn’t bode well for you knowing Stan’s horrific track record.


The best part is that Stan is a Knicks fan
?  
KWALL2 : 11/25/2017 1:21 pm : link
Quote:
who gives up on their team's rookie a couple of months into their career?


Just about every Laker fan will is my guess.

If it isn't clear to you now, it should be after the next 5 weeks.

Right now the game is a mess with no chance of being an impact NBA player. None. But we still have people telling us he's going to be a superstar? There are a lot fewer of them now then 4 weeks ago. The rest will give up on it soon.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/28/2017 1:44 am : link
Lonzo keeps rolling...

3 points on 1 for 7 shooting. He also had an absurd 5 assists and 7 boards in addition to his 3 TOs.

#superstar
7 assists and 5 boards.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/28/2017 1:49 am : link
Got the two mixed up. I was just overblown looking at the box score. Please forgive me.
He's shooting  
WideRight : 11/28/2017 7:20 am : link
30.9% from the field, and 24.5% from beyond the arc.

His free throw shooting is 42.9%!!!! Thats worse than Shaq.

There's nothing to give up on here.....
That's quite the box score  
B in ALB : 11/28/2017 7:23 am : link
In 26 minutes. 3 points (1 for 7) and 3 turnovers.

Kid is a stud.
...  
christian : 11/28/2017 7:33 am : link
His inability to score in the neighborhood of efficiency is alarming. Privately Walton knows it.
What can’t get lost here is...  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 8:33 am : link
the pick of Kuzma. As bad as LoBalls has been, Kuzma has been outstanding. It’s like he was the 2nd pick and LoBalls was the 27th pick. A definite RoY candidate.



Worst player on the court  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 9:55 am : link
He was worse than the stat line.

Lakers probably win if they play Kuzma more especially in the 4th. Griffin was out along with 3 other starters for Clippers. Ball is out there doing jt I hung on offense and making it tougher for the other 4.

Every shot was a bad miss. He's wide open and almost every 3 hits the backboard or nothing at all. No pick and roll game. He rarely breaks down a defender and puts his teammate in an easy position to score.

Every assist is not eqyal. He gets the occasional assist but it's very rare when he makes a good play to make it happen. Its almost always a simple play that any player would make. He simply is not special.

He's working hard on defense lately. I'll give him that biut he's one of the worst offensive players in the league.

Kuzma? He's a much better player. A steal. He'll save the Lakers draft.
RE: Worst player on the court  
Greg from LI : 11/28/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13707485 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Every shot was a bad miss. He's wide open and almost every 3 hits the backboard or nothing at all.


This is what is most striking about his poor shooting. Most of his misses aren't even close. They look like the shots I take at the Y.
he has to seriously consider rebuilding  
Enzo : 11/28/2017 10:06 am : link
his jump shot from scratch. It's difficult but not impossible.
And they are almost always  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 10:08 am : link
Uncontested. He doesn't shoot a lot. It's usually with nobody near him. And he misses badly.

But I think the bigger issue is he can't create anything. Certainly can't create for himself. But doesn't create for others in the half court. He does nothing.
RE: ...  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/28/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13707286 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Lonzo keeps rolling...

3 points on 1 for 7 shooting. He also had an absurd 5 assists and 7 boards in addition to his 3 TOs.

#superstar


Kid is PATHETIC
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 10:18 am : link
Quote:
7 assists and 5 boards.
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1:49 am : link : reply

ABSURD
Hahaha.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/28/2017 10:18 am : link
I'm not even a Lonzo hater. I just find it hilarious that Stanley created this thread about how he was some star already. In reality, the kid is struggling mightily.
KWALL  
figgy2989 : 11/28/2017 10:22 am : link
Did Lonzo or Lavar shit in your cheerios or something? Your hate is pretty strong. I kind of feel sorry for the kid, if it wasn't for his shit dick of a father, he would just be a struggling rookie.
I don't hate him  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 10:29 am : link
But he will go down as a bust. And I am enjoying the change in Laker fans that I know. Preseason hype was unbearable with some of them.

What is absurd is nba scouts thought he was worthy of the 2nd pick.
figgy,  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 10:30 am : link
KWALL would be letting us know that he has confidence in Lonzo putting in the work to fix his shot and point out how he is helping the team in other ways in the meantime if he was a Rutgers kid. Basic shit.
RE: figgy,  
Section331 : 11/28/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13707546 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
KWALL would be letting us know that he has confidence in Lonzo putting in the work to fix his shot and point out how he is helping the team in other ways in the meantime if he was a Rutgers kid. Basic shit.


You mean like you do for a Laker kid? Just sayin'. Pointing out plus/minus as an indicator for how good his defense is is like using only completion % to evaluate a QB.

I have no skin in the game, but Lonzo has been brutally bad. Don't shoot the messengers for pointing that out.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 10:52 am : link
Quote:
Section331 : 10:45 am : link : reply
You mean like you do for a Laker kid? Just sayin'. Pointing out plus/minus as an indicator for how good his defense is is like using only completion % to evaluate a QB.


Quote:
GiantFilthy : 11/20/2017 10:30 am : link : reply
Credit where credit is due goes out the window when we don't like a player (or their parents (childish)).

People keep changing the narrative. He shot a low percentage, his 16 boards (most for a rookie guard since 2000, tied Embiid's career high) and 11 assists don't count I guess. It's also important to only note his +/- when it's in the negative.

Not sure how you got that from my post at all.
I didn't expect LoBalls to shoot great...  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 11:07 am : link
from the perimeter. The NBA three is longer ad LoBalls doesn't have a mid-range game. So the shooting struggles are not that surprising. And yes, he certainly needs to revamp the stroke.

However, he's 6'6", has a good handle, and can get to the rack. And he gets there pretty well. The stunner is his inability to finish at the rim. I'd love to know those facts but my guess is he's shooting < 50% for layups. Which is crazy. That can't happen. If he can get that right it will open up so much more for the Lakers' offense because he's fairly solid at finding shooters.

If he can't get that right, he's really on the way to bust city...
Hey Rutgers  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 11:08 am : link
Ok.

Now back to the hack. My comments have nothing to do with anything but my fascination with the hype of this severely flawed player. So many out here talking out of their asses about what he was going to do in the NBA. I admit to enjoying the end of that (although a few are still expecting it).

I post what I see. I watch the games. I'm amazed this player was a high pick. Amazed any NBA scout would favor him over Tatum.

Pointing out he doesn't create for him or others and can't get any shot off isn't a bias take. Has nothing to do with enjoying the change in Laker fans either. It's simply true. And when he gets the shot off, we'll, we know the results. It's usually off. Badly.

He sucks. The other rookie is the guy to watch. And Ingram. Ball? There is no hope for the guy other than limited role player.

I heard on radio he's shooting 14% from 3 at Staples  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/28/2017 11:08 am : link
and 35% from 3 on road games. Seems like he's just a head case currently.
RE: I didn't expect LoBalls to shoot great...  
Section331 : 11/28/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13707625 bw in dc said:
Quote:

However, he's 6'6", has a good handle, and can get to the rack. And he gets there pretty well.


The only thing true about that statement is that he is 6'6. He has a poor handle for a PG, and doesn't have the athleticism to get to the rim effectively. He can get there by getting stronger, which I expect him to do, but De-Aaron Fox is a stringbean, and he can get to the rim pretty well.
KWALL  
figgy2989 : 11/28/2017 11:15 am : link
So it's not necessarily Lonzo, more Laker hate. Understood.
RE: RE: I didn't expect LoBalls to shoot great...  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13707636 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13707625 bw in dc said:


Quote:

The only thing true about that statement is that he is 6'6. He has a poor handle for a PG, and doesn't have the athleticism to get to the rim effectively. He can get there by getting stronger, which I expect him to do, but De-Aaron Fox is a stringbean, and he can get to the rim pretty well.


I didn't say he has a great handle - like an Irvin or Curry. I said he has a good handle. And it's good enough to run an NBA team because he can see over most defenders guarding him. He's only 19 so I would expect that facet of his game to get better.

Sorry, but you are wrong. He can get to the rim. Is he as quick as the smaller Fox? No. But he has the length and stride to get into the lane fairly routinely. It's just that his confidence is so shot right now he is doing it less and less. And that is exactly what he should be doing because he can't shoot from the outside...
Here are his shooting stats by distance...  
Keith : 11/28/2017 11:22 am : link
0-3 feet=.438
3-10 feet=.250
10-16 feet=.400
16-<3pt line=.143
16+=.245
No. Not understood.  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 11:25 am : link
My fascination with the hype was there before he went to the Lakers.

I don't rip the guy because of the Lakers. If he was on the Suns the comments would be the same.
you can hate or not hate Lonzo or the Lakers  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2017 11:33 am : link
it doesn't change how he's playing or what we are seeing on TV.
Bw  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 11:41 am : link
He can't get to the rack in the NBA.

He doesn't have elite handle or quicks. He can't get by NBA guys. This is one of the biggest issues. He doesn't get into the lane and create. He doesn't get to the free throw line because of it. IMO, this is more concerning than the shooting %. He cant get by NBA defenders.

When the defense is back he usually gives the ball up early. Hes a half court liability.

Last night was the easy game. Beverly was out. He did nothing. He's got a really tough 4 weeks of matchups coming up.
RE: Bw  
giants#1 : 11/28/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13707691 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He can't get to the rack in the NBA.

He doesn't have elite handle or quicks. He can't get by NBA guys. This is one of the biggest issues. He doesn't get into the lane and create. He doesn't get to the free throw line because of it. IMO, this is more concerning than the shooting %. He cant get by NBA defenders.

When the defense is back he usually gives the ball up early. Hes a half court liability.

Last night was the easy game. Beverly was out. He did nothing. He's got a really tough 4 weeks of matchups coming up.


That's a good thing for the Lakers!
Bw  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 11:47 am : link
Quote:
Sorry, but you are wrong. He can get to the rim.


Have you seen any evidence of this in the NBA?

I don't think you have. This isn't college. He cant get by NBA defenders. Hes rarely in the lane making a play.
RE: I heard on radio he's shooting 14% from 3 at Staples  
Greg from LI : 11/28/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13707627 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
and 35% from 3 on road games. Seems like he's just a head case currently.


Going to the Lakers and being under the microscope in his hometown probably isn't doing him any favors.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 11:51 am : link
Quote:
you can hate or not hate Lonzo or the Lakers
UConn4523 : 11:33 am : link : reply
it doesn't change how he's playing or what we are seeing on TV.

It absolutely does change what people see.

11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds
Quote:
dpinzow : 11/23/2017 2:10 pm : link : reply
Lonzo was garbage last night outside of that alley-oop

Quote:
Another average game from a terribly overrated player
BigBlue4You09 : 11/23/2017 2:40 pm : link : reply
KWALL2...  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 11:53 am : link
I watched nearly every Laker game and my translation, again, is this - the lack of penetration is now due to a lack of confidence. He's mentally shot.

I hate to defend the guy, because I think he's tremendously over-hyped and his dad is a grade A douche, but he's very young playing arguably the most important position in the NBA.

For the young crop, I'm a huge Simmons fan. For his size, his skills at running the point are just off the charts. If he ever develops a jumper, and he needs to decide, really, if he's a lefty or righty, he's on a path to greatness...
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 11:58 am : link
Quote:
KWALL2 : 11:47 am : link : reply
Have you seen any evidence of this in the NBA?

I don't think you have. This isn't college. He cant get by NBA defenders. Hes rarely in the lane making a play.

Yes, everyone who has watched has seen evidence. Lonzo has attempted 216 shots in his young career. 38% of them (82) have been at the rim. His shitty finishing is a legitimate conversation to have. Other folks can discuss it though while you call it fake news.

RE: ==========  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2017 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13707713 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


you can hate or not hate Lonzo or the Lakers
UConn4523 : 11:33 am : link : reply
it doesn't change how he's playing or what we are seeing on TV.


It absolutely does change what people see.

11 pts, 11 assists, 7 rebounds


Quote:


dpinzow : 11/23/2017 2:10 pm : link : reply
Lonzo was garbage last night outside of that alley-oop




Quote:


Another average game from a terribly overrated player
BigBlue4You09 : 11/23/2017 2:40 pm : link : reply



It really doesn't. The only thing that changes is perception, not the stats or results. Unlike say a QB in football, there are far less metrics in basketball to determine the efficiency of a player.

If you think Ball is playing well than I don't know what to tell you. If the argument is simply give him time he will get better, that's completely acceptable and up for more of a debate.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 12:13 pm : link
Quote:
UConn4523 : 12:03 pm : link : reply
It really doesn't.

If you think Ball is playing well than I don't know what to tell you

It really does. Ball is not playing well overall. Ball is rebounding well, usually assisting well, and surprisingly playing defense well. When metrics and stats are not in a person's favor and they fight to disregard them, those are the people you should be having trouble talking to.
?  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 12:29 pm : link
[quiteusually assisting well[/quote]

"Assisting well"? Is that a thing?

He isn't making plays for others well. That's for damn sure.
It is, sure.  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 12:35 pm : link
As is defense, rebounding and shots at the rim, which we keep track of now to show those who say a player can't get to the hoop.
If Ball is playing well  
UConn4523 : 11/28/2017 12:45 pm : link
than most of the league is playing well or better. If you want to look at efficiency rating he's currently tied for 266th. He isnt playing well. Doesn't mean he can't in time, but he's simply not a good player right now.
Here's a BS use of stats  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 1:02 pm : link
By the guy claiming others having issues with it.

82 Shots "at the rim" is evidence he can get to the rack and beat guys off the dribble? Thats 100% BS.

Players that get to the rack get fouled (at least occasionally). Ball is at the bottom of the entire league in FTA/minute. You can't find a guard in the league getting there less.

He's beating guys off the dribble but not getting calls? Is that it?

No. The true story is he is NOT beating guys off the dribble and he has not shown that ability in the NBA.

Heres a stat for you  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 1:11 pm : link
Ball is playing the minutes.

33 min/game. 1.4 FTA/game

Find a guard getting there less?

Based on last year's stats, that would rank him 275th in the NBA in FTA per 36.

I don't know what you're watching that shows him getting to the rack. It isn't happening especially in the half court.


FTA per 36 - ( New Window )
A good video discussing Lonzo's broken shot  
dpinzow : 11/28/2017 1:27 pm : link
If he fixes his shot he'll be a good NBA point guard but now he's a broken player with a broken shot
Lonzo's messed up mechanics - ( New Window )
You can't be 5th in the league in assists  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 2:32 pm : link
and not be able to get to the hole.

And he's only 19. I hate to defend the guy but to claim he's unable to beat people off the dribble is simply silly.

RE: You can't be 5th in the league in assists  
nygiants16 : 11/28/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13708038 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and not be able to get to the hole.

And he's only 19. I hate to defend the guy but to claim he's unable to beat people off the dribble is simply silly.


assists are such an overrated stat..

you realize assists does not mean he can beat people off the dribble right?
Come on. Yes you can  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 2:38 pm : link
Especially after only 20 games.

Take a closer look at the assists. You see him beating guys off the dribble and dishing? He isn't doing that. Defenders aren't struggling with the guy.

He's been very passive. He doesn't go to the hole.
Lonzo threads,  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 2:49 pm : link
where assists, rebounds, defense and triple doubles are overrated.
RE: Come on. Yes you can  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13708050 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Especially after only 20 games.

Take a closer look at the assists. You see him beating guys off the dribble and dishing? He isn't doing that. Defenders aren't struggling with the guy.

He's been very passive. He doesn't go to the hole.


Again, I do. And defenders "aren't struggling" with the LoBalls because they want him to shoot. I see teams giving him so much space that he keeps firing these awful threes because Walton still gives him the green light.

Walton needs to be the catalyst her - no more threes, get to the basket. Leave that to Kuzma, Pope and Clarkson...
RE: RE: You can't be 5th in the league in assists  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13708048 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13708038 bw in dc said:


Quote:
assists are such an overrated stat..

you realize assists does not mean he can beat people off the dribble right?


Uh, no. Not with 7.5 assists per game. If he was averaging 2 or 3 then maybe you have a point. But you are being totally unreasonable to suggest that he's getting 7+ assists without beating people off the dribble. Sorry, that's impossible.



He's got good vision  
Keith : 11/28/2017 2:54 pm : link
and seems to get a lot of assists on fast breaks.
Bw  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 3:07 pm : link
It's not unreasonable. It's a fact.

He Isn't doing it.

I don't care about assist numbers. There are many ways to get assists. He isnt doing it by beating guys off the dribble. It's long passes. Fast break on occasion. Swinging the ball around the outside. Some pick and roll. And the out of bounds assist along with some help from the Lakers scorekeeper.
Assists? - ( New Window )
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 3:15 pm : link
Quote:
KWALL2 : 3:07 pm : link : reply
It's long passes. Fast break on occasion. Swinging the ball around the outside. Some pick and roll. And the out of bounds assist

Well why didn't you say so? No one takes those kind of assists seriously for any player.

We are discounting them for every other player, right?
You often hear things..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/28/2017 3:15 pm : link
like "you can teach somebody to shoot well, but you can't teach vision or instincts", yet there are very few cases in the NBA of players that dramatically improved their shooting or have gone from a terrible shooting % to a decent one.

The mechanics of shooting are very difficult to not just fix - but to even improve, especially for guards. Mid to long range jumpers have separated NCAA players from the NBA players for many years, and each year we see guards come out that can't make the transition.
RE: You often hear things..  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13708090 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
like "you can teach somebody to shoot well, but you can't teach vision or instincts", yet there are very few cases in the NBA of players that dramatically improved their shooting or have gone from a terrible shooting % to a decent one.

The mechanics of shooting are very difficult to not just fix - but to even improve, especially for guards. Mid to long range jumpers have separated NCAA players from the NBA players for many years, and each year we see guards come out that can't make the transition.


That's right. Changing LoBalls stroke is a major reclamation project. That's a lot of years of muscle memory to unwind. It'll be one thing to change the mechanics in practice sessions. But then it has to convey to game situations.

Oddly enough, his release point is pretty good as he gets good rotation on the ball. The wind-up though is killing his accuracy and ball trajectory...
Filthy  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 4:27 pm : link
Is Ball beating guys off the dribble?

In the half court is he getting into the lane?

Yes or no?
Yes.  
GiantFilthy : 11/28/2017 4:28 pm : link
Is he finishing?

No, and it's ugly.
RE: Yes.  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 4:37 pm : link
In comment 13708607 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Is he finishing?

No, and it's ugly.


You and I watch the same games. It is incredible how LoBalls can't finish...
Wow  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 5:10 pm : link
Were watching different players or games.

Can you find anything out there in print about his ability to penetrate or anything positive about his half court game?

I don't think you can.

RE: Wow  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13708942 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Were watching different players or games.

Can you find anything out there in print about his ability to penetrate or anything positive about his half court game?

I don't think you can.


You can beat defenders off the dribble and not be an effective finisher. Why is that challenging? They are not mutually exclusive.
I'm not talking about  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:12 pm : link
Him finishing. Never brought it up while discussing his inability to beat a guy off the dribble.

Filthy replies about 82 shots at the rim. My reply was those 82 shots means nothing about "getting to the rack". Never brought up his inability to finish. I did bring up the lack of any free throws. He's currently at the bottom of the league in FTA per minute.

One of the main reasons for the lack of FTs? Not the ability to finish. He isnt getting there. He isnt driving to the basket. Look at yesterday's mess. Every shot except one was a 3, right? The one shot at the rim? A 3 on 1 break and he blew the layup.

No drives to the basket yesterday. Typical for Ball.
RE: I'm not talking about  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13709994 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Him finishing. Never brought it up while discussing his inability to beat a guy off the dribble.

Filthy replies about 82 shots at the rim. My reply was those 82 shots means nothing about "getting to the rack". Never brought up his inability to finish. I did bring up the lack of any free throws. He's currently at the bottom of the league in FTA per minute.

One of the main reasons for the lack of FTs? Not the ability to finish. He isnt getting there. He isnt driving to the basket. Look at yesterday's mess. Every shot except one was a 3, right? The one shot at the rim? A 3 on 1 break and he blew the layup.

No drives to the basket yesterday. Typical for Ball.


But here's why - teams are sagging off LoBalls and inviting him to shoot. If the guy "guarding" LoBalls had a placard it would say, "By all means, please shoot!" And he's taking the bait because Walton continues to encourage him to shoot. Walton seems to think he can shoot himself out of his slump.

But at this point I think we can all agree the sample size is big enough to conclude LoBalls can't make an NBA 3 with that shooting form. So he needs to drive more and figure out how to finish. That's easier to work on right now that restructuring a jump shot completely...
Daring him to shoot  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:28 pm : link
That will continue. But wth that % he shouldn't take it.

If he was beating guys off the dribble then you simply dribble closet, close the gap, and beat them to the basket. But he doesn't do that.

My guess is the next 20 will be worse than the first 20 games for Ball. Just too many problems and limitations. Teams will get even better at exposing it.

I like the other rookie a lot. Maybe the steal of the draft.
Bw  
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:36 pm : link
The shooting form is a bigger problem on mid range shots. Much bigger. Often 3s are wide open and you can make it with an awfward shot or low release point.

His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot. Off the pick and roll he can't get the shot off. Forget about making it. He can't take it.

Long term it won't work. It's not working now but it will get worse for him as players learn his weaknesses.
RE: Daring him to shoot  
bw in dc : 11/28/2017 8:39 pm : link
In comment 13710055 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
That will continue. But wth that % he shouldn't take it.

If he was beating guys off the dribble then you simply dribble closet, close the gap, and beat them to the basket. But he doesn't do that.

My guess is the next 20 will be worse than the first 20 games for Ball. Just too many problems and limitations. Teams will get even better at exposing it.

I like the other rookie a lot. Maybe the steal of the draft.


If I'm a team I NEVER pick him up until he gets foul line extended. Why waste the energy for a guy who can't shoot the ball into the ocean? On the other hand, Walton needs to spearhead the change. He needs to say take it to the basket the majority of the time or we're cutting your time...

Kuzma looks to be the real deal. Hopefully, he can keep up the production when the "wall effect" occurs. He was a real sleeper for Utah. I watched him at the combine and he really stood out.
Hey look he shot over 40% last night!  
BigBlue4You09 : 11/30/2017 9:01 am : link
Baby steps...
Not even mad about this loss, or Lonzo's game.  
GiantFilthy : 11/30/2017 9:33 am : link
Lots of good things happened last night. Steph starting being Steph in OT and that's hard to handle.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/30/2017 12:47 pm : link
==========
Lonzo with the quick 8 - ( New Window )
The Lakers played great last night  
dpinzow : 11/30/2017 12:49 pm : link
went face to face with the Warriors "death lineup" and almost won, without Kuzma. Lonzo played his best as a pro
I was ultra impressed with Ingram  
dpinzow : 11/30/2017 12:53 pm : link
going toe-to-toe with Durant and coming out on top in some of the situations
==========  
GiantFilthy : 11/30/2017 1:08 pm : link
==========
Lonzo catches everyone sleeping. - ( New Window )
Respectable game by Ball  
KWALL2 : 11/30/2017 2:17 pm : link
Still very passive but he hit 3 long shots.

He got to the rim once AND finished (although nobody was at the rim to stop him).

That ugly step back doesn't work with nobody worrying about him on the drive. Still nothing to offer offensively in the half court. They let him wide open all day. His guy helping others. That will continue.

Ingram is the guy. He can get to the rim at will. Excellent quicks. If he gets a half a step he's tough. He should continue to work on the handle and keeping his head up. Eventually he can be the primary ball handler in the half court.
RE: Not even mad about this loss, or Lonzo's game.  
Bill L : 11/30/2017 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13714007 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
Lots of good things happened last night. Steph starting being Steph in OT and that's hard to handle.


Not sure why you should worry about Steph.

Should pose no problem for Lonzo - ( New Window )
Well technically he didn't pose a problem in regulation.  
GiantFilthy : 11/30/2017 2:30 pm : link
.
RE: Respectable game by Ball  
bw in dc : 11/30/2017 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13714889 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
They let him wide open all day. His guy helping others. That will continue.

Ingram is the guy. He can get to the rim at will. Excellent quicks. If he gets a half a step he's tough. He should continue to work on the handle and keeping his head up. Eventually he can be the primary ball handler in the half court.


That's what I've been saying - teams are sagging off LoBalls and begging him to shoot. He'll hit a few once in a while to inspire false hope, but it won't last until that hideous stroke gets fixed.

Ingram is interesting. Has the desired, current NBA body - just long everywhere. Reminds me of with his temperament of Kawhi and a bit of Greek Freak-lite body...
bw  
KWALL2 : 11/30/2017 4:40 pm : link
The stroke doesn't impact wide open 3s. But it will prevent him from being able to make any other shot.

Remember Shawn Marion's shot?

He shot a set shot from his chin. He could only get it off on wide open 3s. With the shooters they has (and Nash) he got some wide open looks for the 3. Over the years his 3 pt shooting % reach respectable.

But he couldn't change his release and he never developed anything else in the half court.

Marion's a lot bigger and more athletic then Ball. He got offensive boards and dunks.

What is Ball going to do with that release?

Right now, he can't do anything accept shoot a wide open 3.

Late in the 4th, did you see him try and take on Durant in isolation? Durant let him dribble. He didn't want to try to get past him so he did an ugly step back to his left. The step back left? That's all he has to get a shot off.
RE: RE: You often hear things..  
RinR : 12/1/2017 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13708151 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13708090 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


like "you can teach somebody to shoot well, but you can't teach vision or instincts", yet there are very few cases in the NBA of players that dramatically improved their shooting or have gone from a terrible shooting % to a decent one.

The mechanics of shooting are very difficult to not just fix - but to even improve, especially for guards. Mid to long range jumpers have separated NCAA players from the NBA players for many years, and each year we see guards come out that can't make the transition.



That's right. Changing LoBalls stroke is a major reclamation project. That's a lot of years of muscle memory to unwind. It'll be one thing to change the mechanics in practice sessions. But then it has to convey to game situations.

Oddly enough, his release point is pretty good as he gets good rotation on the ball. The wind-up though is killing his accuracy and ball trajectory...


Don't know if either of you have ever played or played for an extended period but at 19, his shot is most certainly correctable. There are many factors that influence good shot mechanics and if I were the Lakers, I would be focusing on his mid-range shot. Forget getting accurate on 3s. If he gets to where he can create off the dribble and become a threat at mid-range, this will cause Ds to play him tighter which will then give him other options to create for teammates.

But again, point being that his shot is correctable. It will take some dedicated work and lots of reps in practice but it can be done with the right coaching.
RE: RE: RE: You often hear things..  
bw in dc : 12/1/2017 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13716426 RinR said:
Quote:
In comment 13708151 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13708090 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:

Don't know if either of you have ever played or played for an extended period but at 19, his shot is most certainly correctable. There are many factors that influence good shot mechanics and if I were the Lakers, I would be focusing on his mid-range shot. Forget getting accurate on 3s. If he gets to where he can create off the dribble and become a threat at mid-range, this will cause Ds to play him tighter which will then give him other options to create for teammates.

But again, point being that his shot is correctable. It will take some dedicated work and lots of reps in practice but it can be done with the right coaching.



Yes, I've played for a long time, and I have coached. I never said Ball couldn't change his shot. But it's going to take considerable time to break it down and rebuild it. And rebuild it where it's actually better and more reliable.

That right elbow is all of screwed up. It's not as bad as Michael Kidd Gilchrist's (a total disaster) but it's nowhere near being straight and perpendicular to the rim. Further, he needs to get away from his dad because he dad actually thinks the stroke is fine. So that is a hurdle for the Lakers...

KWall...  
bw in dc : 12/1/2017 5:01 pm : link
I am very familiar with Marion. Right, he had a push shot with not a lot of extension, and more of a flick. But he was good at keeping his body square. Which certainly helps...

Remember Jamaal Wilkes? He had a contorted, behind the head take back. But somehow got back to a decent release point...like a Jim Furyk golf swing...
0-4 with 2 points and 3 turnovers tonight  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/3/2017 11:43 pm : link
Not bad!
Ahem,  
GiantFilthy : 12/4/2017 5:47 am : link
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.
Forget the stats  
KWALL2 : 12/4/2017 11:59 am : link
He looked intimidated. Very passive again. Didn't seem to want to play in this one. Is he a little banged up? He played like it.

Walton didn't play him in the 2nd half. After the game Walton mentioned his lack of energy. Not a good sign.
RE: Ahem,  
adamg : 12/4/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13721523 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.


Are you serious?
RE: RE: Ahem,  
GiantFilthy : 12/4/2017 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13722701 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13721523 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.



Are you serious?

I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.
RE: RE: RE: Ahem,  
adamg : 12/4/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13722725 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
In comment 13722701 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13721523 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.



Are you serious?


I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.


LMAO
==========  
GiantFilthy : 12/4/2017 2:01 pm : link
Quote:
KWALL2 : 11:59 am : link : reply
Is he a little banged up? He played like it.

Calf issue coming into the game last night according to Luke.
RE: RE: RE: Ahem,  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/4/2017 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13722725 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
In comment 13722701 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13721523 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


you conveniently left out his rebound to make his stat line look like shit.



Are you serious?


I never joke around on the internet. BigBlue4You purposely leaving out his rebound clearly showing his bias against the kid. It's interesting that he also failed to mention Lonzo shot 100% from the free throw line, which tied the single game record for percentage and he is only 20 years old.


HAHA you're a good sport. I actually wish the kid well in spite of his father and Stan.
Oh Lonzo  
KWALL2 : 12/5/2017 9:35 pm : link
Quote:
His inefficiency as a high-minutes player basically makes winning impossible.


I posted days ago he has one the lowest FTA/minutes in the entire NBA . It's a clear sign he isn't getting to the rack or creating. A clear problem with his game that is obvious when you watch him over many games. He doesn't attack. Very Passive. Gives the ball up early before even bringing it up to others and runs to the corner. Yes. He runs to the corner 3 often.

Quote:
Free throw attempts and free throw rate are good reference points for how much pressure a player puts on an opposing interior defense, to say nothing of the accumulation of fouls being a net negative for your opposition.


Quote:
.... has the free throw rate of, like, Pat Connaughton. The lack of scoring aggression is an actual problem—the Lakers have the third-worst offensive rating in the entire league, and Lonzo’s personal offensive rating is a full point lower than the team’s overall number. They’re a really bad offensive team, and a worse one when Lonzo is on the court


Yes the shooting is brutal.

Quote:

Emmanuel Mudiay, for example, struggled mightily his rookie season, posting just a 43.7 True Shooting percentage, and becoming something of a reference point for dismal rookie guard play. Lonzo’s efficiency, on the other hand, is in a category of its own: his True Shooting percentage, today, is sitting at 38.3 percent.


Most of his shots are 3s when left open. Rarely attempts a shot off the dribble. Can't penetrate either.

Quote:
“interesting NBA prospect” is an extremely generous way of saying “he throws some nice hit-ahead passes in semi-transition”—Ball is having a downright nightmarish rookie campaign


Time to short the BBB stock. It's bad now. I expect it to get even worse the rest of the year.



Brutal and accurate assessment of Lonzo - ( New Window )
Lonzo 10-8-8 tonight  
Stan in LA : 12/7/2017 10:42 pm : link
Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?
RE: Lonzo 10-8-8 tonight  
Del Shofner : 12/7/2017 10:52 pm : link
In comment 13729679 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?


In fairness to you Stan, Lonzo also had 3 steals and 4 blocks tonight. That's a very interesting line.

I have no dog in this hunt but I do find this thread entertaining ...
.  
arcarsenal : 12/7/2017 11:06 pm : link
LOL, you know it's bad when 10-8-8 becomes some sort of noteworthy performance.

Ball sucks.
RE: .  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/7/2017 11:08 pm : link
In comment 13729691 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
LOL, you know it's bad when 10-8-8 becomes some sort of noteworthy performance.

Ball sucks.


It’s pretty pathetic, look at other rookies like aTatum and this is an average night. Ball 0-3 from Fowntown, Tatum leading the league in 3% lol
Lonzo aside, that was a fun game to watch.  
bceagle05 : 12/7/2017 11:15 pm : link
.
Donovan Mitchell is the one looking like a steal.  
Del Shofner : 12/7/2017 11:33 pm : link
Seems like a good dude as well.
Good game  
KWALL2 : 12/8/2017 1:11 am : link
Lonzo still sucks.

Ingram impressive again.
Serious ?...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/8/2017 6:37 am : link
Is Stanley really LaVar Ball?
The infatuation with Ball and his nightly performance is mind boggling  
Dang Man : 12/8/2017 6:44 am : link
This thread and it’s ability to stay alive (i realize I’m helping that by posting this) is really crazy. If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go.
RE: Lonzo 10-8-8 tonight  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/8/2017 7:41 am : link
In comment 13729679 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?

Until you're willing to come onto the thread after Ball goes 0-4 with 2 points, kindly STFU.
RE: RE: Lonzo 10-8-8 tonight  
PhiPsi125 : 12/8/2017 7:46 am : link
In comment 13729791 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13729679 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?


Until you're willing to come onto the thread after Ball goes 0-4 with 2 points, kindly STFU.


Won’t happen. Stan is a pussy shit stirrer. This is literally all he does.
Meh...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/8/2017 8:15 am : link
Quote:
If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go


It's more like if a guy came on the board to tell us a giants #1 pick rookie was going to the HoF, how he's going to immediately dominate and then he goes out and looks like a UDFA for half of a season.
I'll leave this right here...  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/8/2017 8:18 am : link
Jayson Tatum's 3 point percentage (51.3%) is higher than Lonzo Ball's free throw percentage (50%)
only noteworthy thing was that he almost...  
Italianju : 12/8/2017 8:19 am : link
shot 50% for a game! I mean 10-8-8 is nothing to get excited about. THe 4 blocks is impressive though, lol.
RE: Meh...  
Dang Man : 12/8/2017 8:21 am : link
In comment 13729806 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


If this were a Giant rookie we’d all be saying “give him some time”. Let it go



It's more like if a guy came on the board to tell us a giants #1 pick rookie was going to the HoF, how he's going to immediately dominate and then he goes out and looks like a UDFA for half of a season.


I see your point a bit, but I think people are being a bit overly negative because of the poster in question. It’s easy to want to hate Ball. Seems to be a family of deplorables. But he’s going to get better and though his shooting is terrible he’s got other aspects to his game. He can rebound, pass, plays good D (as far as defensive efficiency metrics are concerned). I just think it’s too early to label him a bust or to say he sucks. Much the same as it’s too early anoint him a Hall of Famer.

But I’m not debating the player. Just find it odd that people can’t agree to disagree and feel the need to rehash this with every passing game.
People say his shooting will improve. I'm not convinced.  
Heisenberg : 12/8/2017 8:43 am : link
Shooting usually can improve but that jump shot is so damn weird that it's hard to assume that it will follow the usual trajectory.
RE: RE: RE: Lonzo 10-8-8 tonight  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/8/2017 9:12 am : link
In comment 13729796 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13729791 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13729679 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Leading to upset of 76'ers on the road. But he sucks, right?


Until you're willing to come onto the thread after Ball goes 0-4 with 2 points, kindly STFU.



Won’t happen. Stan is a pussy shit stirrer. This is literally all he does.


Yep full blown troll
His shooting WILL improve,  
GiantFilthy : 12/8/2017 9:25 am : link
once they fix that sidewinder slingshot bullshit in the offseason. Magic has already brought it up.

Last night was Lonzo's best all around game of the season.

And LT56, both Lonzo and Simmons should be embarrassed about their FT shooting. 50% and 55% for the two of them. Shame.
What hasn't been mentioned was the zero turnovers btw.  
GiantFilthy : 12/8/2017 9:25 am : link
.
RE: Lonzo aside, that was a fun game to watch.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/8/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13729694 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
.


It was a fun game to watch. I watched more if it than Saints Falcons.
Shooting % may improve  
KWALL2 : 12/8/2017 11:12 am : link
inability to get the shot off will not unless the release is changed. That is a much bigger problem then the bricks on the 3.

Great thread. You know the guy was doomed after Stan endorsed him as the next great one.
RE: Shooting % may improve  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13730175 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
You know the guy was doomed after Stan endorsed him as the next great one.


One of the ironclad laws of the universe.
LT  
KWALL2 : 12/8/2017 11:17 am : link
There is more to this...

Quote:
Jayson Tatum's 3 point percentage (51.3%) is higher than Lonzo Ball's free throw percentage (50%)


Tatum shoots a higher % while taking a lot more 3s than Ball takes FTs. More than double per game. He makes more 3s than Ball FTA for Ball. He never gets to the line.
Still don't like how everyone, fans and media both,  
GiantFilthy : 12/8/2017 11:52 am : link
make this a Lonzo/Simmons thing. It really ignores the story that Ingram is building. Dude is turning into a major player and he was the one drafted behind Simmons.
RE: His shooting WILL improve,  
bw in dc : 12/8/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13729947 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
once they fix that sidewinder slingshot bullshit in the offseason. Magic has already brought it up.

Last night was Lonzo's best all around game of the season.

And LT56, both Lonzo and Simmons should be embarrassed about their FT shooting. 50% and 55% for the two of them. Shame.


I don't care what Magic says, that shot style is going to take at least two years to improve. And it's going to get worse before it gets better if they actually go through with it. He's had that shot style for 15 years+. That is deeply embedded muscle memory.



Two years.  
GiantFilthy : 12/8/2017 4:38 pm : link
So here is hoping he doesn't retire at age 22.
I don't understand how NBA players don't shoot at least 80% at the  
BrettNYG10 : 12/8/2017 4:58 pm : link
FT line.
They can't all be us.  
GiantFilthy : 12/8/2017 5:13 pm : link
.
Lonzo time  
KWALL2 : 12/9/2017 7:01 pm : link
vs tired CHA team. Should be a big one for Lonzo.
meanwhile, Lonzo's two brothers both sign 1-year pro contracts  
Del Shofner : 12/11/2017 11:56 pm : link
with a Lithuanian team that is truly low-level - and they're not expected to get playing time in the regular league games, just in some lower-level competition that the club also plays in. Quite the power move.

well, at least Lithuania is near Latvia - ( New Window )
17-6-8 tonght  
Stan in LA : 12/13/2017 12:26 am : link
sucks right?
RE: 17-6-8 tonght  
Del Shofner : 12/13/2017 12:50 am : link
In comment 13738546 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
sucks right?


-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.

Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?
sorry Stan - meant to link this -  
Del Shofner : 12/13/2017 12:56 am : link
he didn't suck, he was just the worst player on the Lakers tonight in a losing effort to the Knicks, who aren't very good themselves.
oh no - Lonzo didn't suck but he wasn't good either! - ( New Window )
LOL.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/13/2017 7:30 am : link
Stanley will die on the Lonzo hill.
RE: 17-6-8 tonght  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/13/2017 7:47 am : link
In comment 13738546 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
sucks right?

RE: 17-6-8 tonght  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/13/2017 8:12 am : link
In comment 13738546 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
sucks right?


You need serious help.
If you want to see a..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/13/2017 8:27 am : link
double-double to brag about, just look at Porzingas last night.

Skinny dude from Eastern Europe who got trashed for being "overdrafted" gets 37 and 11.

When Ball comes anywhere close to that - post it.
RE: If you want to see a..  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2017 8:33 am : link
In comment 13738642 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
double-double to brag about, just look at Porzingas last night.

Skinny dude from Eastern Europe who got trashed for being "overdrafted" gets 37 and 11.

When Ball comes anywhere close to that - post it.

I don't like making it about points only. The 11 part of that will happen plenty for Lonzo. Doesn't seem like a fair comparison between one player that came into the draft with his best quality being shooting/scoring and the other player coming in known for assists, rebounds and tempo.
Actually..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/13/2017 8:36 am : link
wasn't Lonzo mainly known as being Lavar Ball's son??

If you gave Porzingis' father courtside seats, he'd probably go unnoticed.
He had a decent 2nd half after a really bad first half.  
Keith : 12/13/2017 8:45 am : link
He's not nearly as bad as KWALL keeps trying to convince everyone, but I don't see superstar with him. He's not a strong defender, but he has good instincts. He's got really good court vision and a good ability to pass the ball. As he goes through the league, teams will prevent those long court passes, but he's good running the court with the ball in his hands. I don't ever see him as a good shooter and I think best case scenario is a passable shooter. If he learns to be more aggressive more often, he'll be able to get to the rim though.
I hate Lavar Ball  
PaulBlakeTSU : 12/13/2017 9:13 am : link
with the fire of a thousand suns and it clouds my judgment on Lonzo because I consider him an enabler.

But only focusing on the court, there are some things that Lonzo does incredibly well. The way he can push the tempo from an outlet or a made basket and make great downcourt passes is a skillset that few possess in the league and few have possessed at this level at such a young age. And while he isn't a good one-on-one defender, he has quick instincts and so he will make some key plays forcing turnovers because he has a really good nose for the ball. There is a lot for him to work on with his shot, but he brings a lot of excitement to a young team.
RE: RE: 17-6-8 tonght  
Section331 : 12/13/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13738550 Del Shofner said:
Quote:

-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.

Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?


As I said earlier in the thread when some used +/- to defend Lonzo, it is a poor indicator for a single player, and a terrible one-game stat. It is meant to evaluate 5-man groups over a period of time, so people should stop using it as an indicator of a player's defensive abilities. It is pointless.
I thought Ball and Frank both had games that were about as good  
Ira : 12/13/2017 9:36 am : link
as the other's. I like both players and think both will have special careers as they develop. Both are good passing pg's, but Ball is a little better. Frank has a big edge defensively.
How can anyone hate LaVar?!  
BrettNYG10 : 12/13/2017 9:39 am : link
.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2017 9:42 am : link
Quote:
How can anyone hate LaVar?!
BrettNYG10 : 9:39 am : link : reply

I just assume everyone is lying/joking.
Haters!!  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/13/2017 9:44 am : link
RE: RE: RE: 17-6-8 tonght  
Keith : 12/13/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13738733 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13738550 Del Shofner said:


Quote:



-11 in the plus/minus - the worst on the team in an OT loss.

Not going to say he sucks, but he wasn't that good. Right?



As I said earlier in the thread when some used +/- to defend Lonzo, it is a poor indicator for a single player, and a terrible one-game stat. It is meant to evaluate 5-man groups over a period of time, so people should stop using it as an indicator of a player's defensive abilities. It is pointless.


It was a pretty good indication last night. He was the worst player on the floor early in the game and then as soon as he came out, the replacements played great.
Still sucks  
KWALL2 : 12/13/2017 2:24 pm : link
Astonishingly limited player. He throws a nice outlet pass. That's what he offers on offense. Miles to go before this player can be part of a winning team.

He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it. Long term it won't work.

The other rookie is a player. Lakers saved the draft there.
Lebron to LA confirmed.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2017 3:52 pm : link
Quote:
“The kid hasn’t said anything,” James told ESPN when asked about the hype surrounding Ball. “It’s been everybody else. So, I love his humility. He goes out, every time someone asks him a question, he says, ‘This is not about me, man. I just want to win. I don’t care about what I did.’ I seen he had a triple-double one game and they lost. He was like, ‘I don’t care. We lost.’

“So, can I draw any parallel to my experience? I mean, of course. I guess when you’re drafted to a franchise, they want you to kind of be the savior. And it takes a while. I mean, listen, man, this guy is 20-something games into his pro career. S— doesn’t happen [that fast]. Here it goes again, it goes back to my instant oatmeal [quote]: Everybody wants it right away. Can he play ball? Absolutely. The kid can play ball. Do guys want to play with him? Absolutely, because it’s a guy who is not about him. It’s about the success of the team. And he gives the ball up, and he passes the ball, and there’s energy behind the ball.”
If bron goes to the Lakers  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/13/2017 11:18 pm : link
Lonzo gets shipped out the door for a Lebron-friend. Guaranteed that kid gets Wiggins’d.
Wiggins couldn't even get a mention from Lebron.  
GiantFilthy : 12/14/2017 9:49 am : link
This is like the seventh time Lebron has singled out Lonzo with praise. Would be pretty cold to have him traded after all of this.





Hope we get a decent package for him.
RE: Wiggins couldn't even get a mention from Lebron.  
giants#1 : 12/14/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13739959 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
This is like the seventh time Lebron has singled out Lonzo with praise. Would be pretty cold to have him traded after all of this.





Hope we get a decent package for him.


Just shows Lebron the GM blows. Wiggins >> Lonzo
13-11-8 tonight  
Stan in LA : 12/15/2017 12:30 am : link
Not bad for someone who sucks.
RE: 13-11-8 tonight  
Del Shofner : 12/15/2017 12:43 am : link
In comment 13741250 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Not bad for someone who sucks.


some other stats: 6 turnovers, a terrible plus/minus (again) and his team lost (again). Stan - you're not getting it. It's not that he "sucks"; it's just that he's not all that good right now. He's young, that may change. But don't keep setting up the "sucks" straw man every night. His team keeps losing and he's far from the best player on it.
RE: 13-11-8 tonight  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/15/2017 12:47 am : link
In comment 13741250 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Not bad for someone who sucks.

You do realize this thread only has traction because you suck, not because Lonzo does, right?
from what I've seen, Lonzo is an excellent rebounder for a point guard  
Del Shofner : 12/15/2017 12:58 am : link
and makes at least several long pass assists per game that are amazing. So he's got some cool skills. I haven't seen yet that he's a winner. The Knicks' much maligned Frank took Lonzo out of the game at crunch time the other night - Knicks won and the Lakers lost, in large part because Frank is better at winning games at crunch time. Frank did it again against the Nets tonight. Lonzo will make several highlight reel plays per game, and they are indeed amazing - but I haven't seen the game winning killer instinct from him yet. Maybe it will come. Don't hate the guy - just don't like Stan's "sucks" formulation every night the Lakers play.
RE: from what I've seen, Lonzo is an excellent rebounder for a point guard  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/15/2017 1:09 am : link
In comment 13741263 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
and makes at least several long pass assists per game that are amazing. So he's got some cool skills. I haven't seen yet that he's a winner. The Knicks' much maligned Frank took Lonzo out of the game at crunch time the other night - Knicks won and the Lakers lost, in large part because Frank is better at winning games at crunch time. Frank did it again against the Nets tonight. Lonzo will make several highlight reel plays per game, and they are indeed amazing - but I haven't seen the game winning killer instinct from him yet. Maybe it will come. Don't hate the guy - just don't like Stan's "sucks" formulation every night the Lakers play.

It's not really every night the Lakers play. It's every time Lonzo has a solid line in the box score. When Lonzo's numbers are pedestrian, Scam in LA doesn't show up.
He also had 6 TO's.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/15/2017 6:52 am : link
But let's just ignore that.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 12/15/2017 9:02 am : link
.
fkn perfection - ( New Window )
Del  
KWALL2 : 12/15/2017 10:45 am : link
Quote:
several highlight reel plays per game[


That is t happening.

He does throw a very nice outlet pass. It isn't "highlight reel" stuff and he sure doesn't have several per game.
I'm not even sure why KWALL keeps spending money on tickets.  
GiantFilthy : 12/15/2017 11:17 am : link
Haha  
KWALL2 : 12/15/2017 11:21 am : link
It's hard to turn away from a trainwreck.
Heheh, THIS was the trainwreck last night.  
GiantFilthy : 12/15/2017 11:25 am : link
.
Brook Lopez (NSFW) - ( New Window )
==========  
GiantFilthy : 12/19/2017 9:23 am : link
Quote:
KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:36 pm : link : reply
His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot.


Quote:
KWALL2 : 12/13/2017 2:24 pm : link : reply
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it.

When you're right you're right. - ( New Window )
16-6-6 last night  
Stan in LA : 12/19/2017 11:26 am : link
And took the World Champs to OT. Nice.
You mean won the game  
GiantFilthy : 12/19/2017 11:30 am : link
if we take away the awful didn't-hit-the-rim call.
Filthy  
KWALL2 : 12/19/2017 11:37 am : link
He had a very nice game. Showing a little more aggression on offense. Couldn't finish at the end but a good sign that he attacked and got to the rim.
RE: Filthy  
bw in dc : 12/19/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13747440 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He had a very nice game. Showing a little more aggression on offense. Couldn't finish at the end but a good sign that he attacked and got to the rim.


Actually, LoBalls only had a good overtime. Before the OT? He hardly distinguished himself.
bw  
KWALL2 : 12/19/2017 12:16 pm : link
I'm not talking about points. He did a nice job on defense and for the first time in 2 years, he hit a mid range shot. He banked it from the free throw line without calling glass but it went in.

He showed more aggression. That's a step in the right direction. He still has nothing in the half court. There is no offensive game here. Defenders ignore him and will continue to and help others.

RE: You mean won the game  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/19/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13747420 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
if we take away the awful didn't-hit-the-rim call.

Scam doesn't watch the games. He only comments on the box score. He wouldn't have known that.
Update: 16-9-4 last night  
Stan in LA : 12/21/2017 2:14 pm : link
In stopping Houston's 14 game winning streak in Houston.

Cool.
RE: Update: 16-9-4 last night  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/21/2017 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13749960 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In stopping Houston's 14 game winning streak in Houston.

Cool.


On 5 for 14 shooting & 5 TOs. You're adorable.
yeah  
PaulBlakeTSU : 12/21/2017 2:34 pm : link
fellow rookie Kuzma goes 38/7/4 with 0 turnovers on 12-for-17 shooting, but of course the Stain in LA thinks they beat Houston because of Lonzo's 16/9/4 with 5 turnovers on 5-for-14 shooting.

Stan, it must be hard work being so unlikable for so long on a consistent basis.

RE: Update: 16-9-4 last night  
bw in dc : 12/21/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13749960 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In stopping Houston's 14 game winning streak in Houston.

Cool.


Looking more and more like Magic drafted wrong - he should have taken Kuzman 2nd, LoBalls 27th.
RE: RE: Update: 16-9-4 last night  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/21/2017 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13750137 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13749960 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


In stopping Houston's 14 game winning streak in Houston.

Cool.



Looking more and more like Magic drafted wrong - he should have taken Kuzman 2nd, LoBalls 27th.


Not even worthy of the 27th pick. Imagine if they took Tatum at 2 😵
I cannot believe this thread is still going  
BigBlueShock : 12/21/2017 5:16 pm : link
How does such a mediocre player deserve a thread that lasts the entire season? I guess when Stan keeps bumping it every time Lonzo goes 3-25 from the field it’s going to have some staying power but good lord.

I can’t wait to see how impressed Stan is when Lonzo is dominating his fathers league with his brothers in a few years. That will be epic. I look forward to his threads stating:

“18-9-7 in a dramatic comeback victory for the Napa Valley Wineries tonight. Yep, he sucks...”
RE: RE: RE: Update: 16-9-4 last night  
bw in dc : 12/21/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13750139 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 13750137 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Not even worthy of the 27th pick. Imagine if they took Tatum at 2 😵


Clearly, the front runners for RoTY...
RE: ==========  
jestersdead : 12/21/2017 5:23 pm : link
In comment 13747157 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


KWALL2 : 11/28/2017 8:36 pm : link : reply
His biggest problem is he can't even attempt a shot in the mid range game. He also can't go right and take a jumper. Can't pull up and shoot.





Quote:


KWALL2 : 12/13/2017 2:24 pm : link : reply
He can't even take a pull up jumper. It's a basic move and he can't do it. Can't come off a screen and shoot. Another simple move and he can't do it.

When you're right you're right. - ( New Window )


did you listen to the clip? Announcer says, "thats the best looking jump shot hes taken all year"
He's been better than absolute dog shit  
KWALL2 : 12/21/2017 5:27 pm : link
like he was in the first 20 games.

But he still sucks at this point. The one thing to note is he seems to understand his limitations.

In the half court he does nothing but give the ball up early. almost always before he even crossed the 3 pt line.

Quote:
the average time Ball keeps the ball beyond the half-court line is 2.11 seconds, the fastest in the league among starting point guards.


He understands the team is better with the ball in the hands of the other guys. So he gets points there.

If you watch him you can see the limitations in the half court. He's terrible on pick and rolls because he is not threat to shoot or drive. Maybe that will change. Who knows. I got to say the clip filthy posted looked like he made a change on that release. But he never attempts that shot. That has to change.

More about his weakness going to the basket?

Quote:
His deception resides in his ability to thread needles with his passes, not in changing speeds, something at which he doesn't excel and which hurts him as a penetrator. Through Dec. 19, he ranked 134th of 135 in effective field goal percentage in the lane


Quote:
"He's a bigger Ricky Rubio. ... I just don't see how he'll move the needle in terms of wins and losses unless you can get out on the break 50 times a game."

An NBA general manager, on Lonzo Ball


More about his weakness in the half court which I think is a huge problem.

Quote:
From an NBA Scout:
half-court scoring is really important in the NBA, especially in the playoffs. Can you beat your man off the dribble when the shot clock is winding down? Can you score against a power forward on a switch? Can you shoot on the move? The answer is we don't know."


The answer right now is "No. he can't do it". He's a liability in the half court and makes it easier for teams to drop off and help on others.
Questions About Lonzo - ( New Window )
speaking of the brothers Ball - interesting article in today's NYT  
Del Shofner : 12/21/2017 7:17 pm : link
about how Lonzo's younger brothers ended up signing with a low-level team in Lithuania, with a lot of flavor from the Lithuanian side. I've spent some time in eastern Europe and I love reading stuff like this. Who knows how it's going to go from a hoops point of view, though.
Balls in Lithuania - ( New Window )
24/5/5 night against the Warriors who can't stop him.  
GiantFilthy : 12/23/2017 7:42 pm : link
Quote:
Lonzo Ball has been shooting 42.5% from 3 ever since The Ringer's article: "Is Lonzo Ball's Shot Broken?"

Quote:
Only 4 rookies in NBA history have scored >15ppg on >60% TS. Kuzma is currently on pace to join this list.

(both via Reddit)
10-11-8 tonight  
Stan in LA : 12/24/2017 12:47 am : link
Nice!
RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
DennyInDenville : 12/24/2017 1:04 am : link
In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Nice!

Lonzos gonna be really good

Jason Kidd 2.0 for sure.

What is you're official opinion on Frank Ntilikina ? Is he capable of being a unique PG and top 5 at his position?
RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
chopperhatch : 12/24/2017 1:09 am : link
In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Nice!


You are a lonely, sad, loser of a dumbass.
RE: RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
B in ALB : 12/24/2017 1:25 am : link
In comment 13752497 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Nice!


Lonzos gonna be really good

Jason Kidd 2.0 for sure.

What is you're official opinion on Frank Ntilikina ? Is he capable of being a unique PG and top 5 at his position?


You're asking Stan about his opinion on Frank?

Holy assholes, you're as awful as Stan himself

Dumbfuck in Dumbassville strikes again.
RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 12/24/2017 7:16 am : link
In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Nice!


LOL. 4 for 13 from the field with 5 TOs.
RE: RE: RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
DennyInDenville : 12/24/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13752502 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 13752497 DennyInDenville said:


Quote:


In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Nice!


Lonzos gonna be really good

Jason Kidd 2.0 for sure.

What is you're official opinion on Frank Ntilikina ? Is he capable of being a unique PG and top 5 at his position?



You're asking Stan about his opinion on Frank?

Holy assholes, you're as awful as Stan himself

Dumbfuck in Dumbassville strikes again.

Lmao stfu you dumb Cuck.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/24/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13752667 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
In comment 13752502 B in ALB said:


Quote:


In comment 13752497 DennyInDenville said:


Quote:


In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Nice!


Lonzos gonna be really good

Jason Kidd 2.0 for sure.

What is you're official opinion on Frank Ntilikina ? Is he capable of being a unique PG and top 5 at his position?



You're asking Stan about his opinion on Frank?

Holy assholes, you're as awful as Stan himself

Dumbfuck in Dumbassville strikes again.


Lmao stfu you dumb Cuck.


Bro you just agreed with Stan and asked for his opinion. Think about that for a second. Stan is a borderline troll with serious mental disorders .
Not borderline  
PhiPsi125 : 12/24/2017 11:27 am : link
Full on troll status
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 10-11-8 tonight  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/24/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13752699 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 13752667 DennyInDenville said:


Quote:


In comment 13752502 B in ALB said:


Quote:


In comment 13752497 DennyInDenville said:


Quote:


In comment 13752493 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


Nice!


Lonzos gonna be really good

Jason Kidd 2.0 for sure.

What is you're official opinion on Frank Ntilikina ? Is he capable of being a unique PG and top 5 at his position?



You're asking Stan about his opinion on Frank?

Holy assholes, you're as awful as Stan himself

Dumbfuck in Dumbassville strikes again.


Lmao stfu you dumb Cuck.



Bro you just agreed with Stan and asked for his opinion. Think about that for a second. Stan is a borderline troll with serious mental disorders .

What do you think Denny is?
2 games without Lonzo and  
Stan in LA : 12/28/2017 1:08 am : link
2 blowout losses at home. Hummmmm...
Hmmmmmm....  
illmatic : 12/28/2017 1:18 am : link
it's almost as if the Lakers are a shitty team with or without Lonzo.
RE: Hmmmmmm....  
Stan in LA : 12/30/2017 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13756770 illmatic said:
Quote:
it's almost as if the Lakers are a shitty team with or without Lonzo.

No, with him they beat Houston in Houston and took Golden St. to OT and were just a few games under .500. Without him, they have lost the last 3 games each by more than double digits AT HOME. Big difference friend.
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