failed to address the OL. Was a heavy topic after the 2013 season. He breaks it down rather plainly. I don't think the giants were ever questioned for a reaction to those statements.
While Eli's stats suffered from all of the lower percentage passes, the offense consistently ranked amongst the best in the NFL.
After the 2013 debacle, everyone wanted KG gone for failing to adapt to the horrendous offensive line play. This was a fair criticism, but even though McAdoo's WCO was a big improvement over the 2013 offense, it didn't reach the same heights as the best years under KG and was overly dependent on an all star wide receiver.
His comments really just emphasize how badly the front office has botched the roster and especially the OL since 2011.
Gilbride knows his shit. I always liked the few interviews and visits he does on podcasts after he retired. He's a pretty open book and will give you a lot of interesting encounters and facts on life in the NFL as a coach.
I still remember how awful that offensive line was in that 2013 Seattle game. James Brewer had the worst block in football I've ever seen in my life. That dude sucked.
...I keep coming back to the assumption that the Giants will select 2 offensive linemen with premium draft selections (first 3 or 4 rounds.)
I don't think any other position on the Giants is filled with so many questions, issues, concerns:
1) McKenzie is either gone or a backup... or an emergency starter? James Brewer may one day be a very good RT in the NFL. But can he step in this year and start? Will he ever be a starter?
2) Snee deserves the benefit of the doubt, but this former Pro Bowler has been in the trenches for a full 8 years, and his last one was far and away his worst. He's no spring chicken.
3) The same can be said more or less about Diehl... make that 9 years... and he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a liability in the run game when placed inside. If he needs to move over to RT... I consider that one part experiment and one part stop-gap.
4) Kevin Boothe was one of our key quality backups... now he's a starter. Will Mitch Petrus be as good in a backup role?
5) I "think" Baas will be fine at Center, but no one can say he came in here last year and made us all forget about the very fine play of Sean O'Hara.
6) I also think Beatty can be a very good LT. But that's an assumption... hardly a guarantee. He does not have a lot of experience for us to know his ultimate worth... and he is coming off a very serious eye injury.
Surely one can point to needs on the defensive side of the ball (not to mention TE/WR/RB)...
...but at the end of the day, the "12th man" for any defense is an offensive line that control the tempo and keeps the defense well rested.
Cannot look at this move without looking at OLine. An immobile QB, no running game, and porous pass protection. You're basically setting Eli up for failure, or limiting his opportunities for success.
Wish they had followed up his comments re: need to reload OLine with some questions about the draft, player evaluation process. That would have provided some even more valuable insights.
Is in serious denial about Eli's decline, I've read it here that Eli's skills have eroded.
Yeah, I think I'll go with this guy's take, especially considering he knows what makes Eli tick on and off the field, rather than an "NFL analyst" who eyeballed it watching tape.
1-Eli's best season was 2011. He and KG's offense took advantage of what was left of a deteriorating line that was BUILT for pocket passing. He could've won the MVP that year.
2-Second half of 2012, the line continues to deteriorate with a huge slide in offense productivity, especially Eli's.
3-Dumpster fire offense and OL in 2013. Eli was awful. He hasn't played consistently (for Eli, at least) at a high level since. His numbers were good 2014 and 2015--I think he was top 10 in yards. But we started watching a one-dimensional offense that other teams figured out pretty quickly.
So, Eli fell off a cliff in his prime because his skills suddenly diminished? I don't buy it. I've never bought it.
At this point, it's hard to evaluate Eli at all. Is he permanently skittish? Is he too old? Or is he the same talented pocket passer but without a pocket? Who knows?
Reese cut the legs out from under the team. I hate that guy.
Is in serious denial about Eli's decline, I've read it here that Eli's skills have eroded.
You’re so right. What the hell does this guy know? Who cares that he’s been in the NFL for yrs and actually worked w Eli and this team. I take what some of these BBI posters who are watching from their couch in their PJs way more seriously. Lol.
Is in serious denial about Eli's decline, I've read it here that Eli's skills have eroded.
Yeah, I think I'll go with this guy's take, especially considering he knows what makes Eli tick on and off the field, rather than an "NFL analyst" who eyeballed it watching tape.
Of course you'll get the famous "what is gilbride supposed to say?" line.
Why is it that coaches need to study the game tape to evaluate players while fans who are nobodies when it comes to player evaluation can accurately evaluate a player (qb nonetheless) off of their TV's?
said we'd miss Gilbride when he was gone and should remember those teams as having one of the most innovative offenses we'll see.
He should be looked at historically as an offensive genius - not just for the implementation of the run and shoot, but how he morphed elements of several offenses into his scheme. If you ever get a chance to hear him talk at a coaches seminar, he's absolutely fascinating to listen to, and you come away knowing the guy is a master at understanding offense.
simple, honest and accurate assessment of Eli Manning as a QB.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
This is the shame of the of the last 5 years here.
Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Been saying the exact same thing all year.
But I guess all the BBI Scouts see a decline that Gilbride doesn't. Â
The o line is the worst in the NFL. The coaching staff is the worst in the NFL. The GM and front office are a joke. For goodness sake the equipment managers were suspended for selling fake Giants merchandise. All this failure leads to the doorstep of the owner John Mara. The only thing that’s difficult to understand is what exactly Mara sees in his band of merry ass clowns known as the NY Football Giants. How does Mara not see the team he inherited is a dumpster fire? The Giants have been in a free fall for years now and the one good thing they had in Eli has probably played his last down as a NY Giant. Unbelievably, with one breathtakingly careless and entirely needless easily avoidable act, John Mara has engineered the ruin of the franchise relationship with one of its all time greatest players. How does Mara think this is all going to play out with his customers? Does he think they’ll be an Eli Manning day in a couple of years and Eli will trot out onto the field and give “Mr Mara” a hug and then wave to cheering fans? Eli’s a terrific human being but he’s a man with pride and I don’t see that happening now.
Does Mara think that Reese will draft an Aaron Rodgers clone (or someone even better!) and then McAdoo is gonna coach up AR2 to high flying grid iron success? I’ve watched pro football for more than 4 decades and I’ve seen one QB with Aaron Rodgers talents and accomplishments. (But I’ve seen a lot of first round can’t miss QBs that flamed out in a few years). I’ve watched Ben McAdoo find zero creative ways to get the football to OBJ. I’ve watched Ben McAdoo suspend 2 pro bowl DBs and one 1st round pick in the span of 5 games - never seen that on any other team in 40+ years. I’ve seen McAdoo and his pathetic coaching staff fail to solve the Tampa 2 defense for two season. On and on and on with the failures of McAdoo. In a season that couldn’t be any worse Mara continues to place his faith in Reese and McAdoo. Why? Who in the heck knows?! So the only real question is WTF is John Mara seeing?
I think the first big bungle was what happened with Gilbride.
Changes needed to be made:
1. Reese realizes its a personel problem and not a coach problem. This article says Gilbride was arguing for an offensive line investment as early as 09. Listen to him and do it.
2. If you do replace Gilbride, you replace him with a similar offensive minded coach, who tweaks Gilbrides system a bit. Macadoo was not a fit for Eli or Coughlin.
“Back in 2009 I started to argue that the line was getting old and 2010 we were getting beat up, we were still winning because we were still good enough. In 2011 even when we won the Super Bowl there were multiple guys getting hurt and banged up, and by 2012 we went 9-7 but we were hanging on by dear life,” Gilbride said. “We were hanging onto that windowsill with our fingernails. When 2013 happened and there were six different starters at running back, three different at right guard, four different at center, three at left guard. That stuff’s been going on for a while now.
“This isn’t just an overnight thing. People are acting like this just happened. This has been a buildup that needed to be addressed for a while.”
It's so damn obvious and clear what happened. Right in front of our eyes.
Don't forget when Mac was hired coughlin said the offense would be a mixture of coughlin's\gilbride's offense and Mac's. Interesting that while coughlin was still coach the offense was good, when coughlin left the offense sucked. I firmly believe Mac removed coughlin's mix of the offense, which probably was the good part of the offense.
Guys
crick n NC : 8:55 am : link : reply
Don't forget when Mac was hired coughlin said the offense would be a mixture of coughlin's\gilbride's offense and Mac's. Interesting that while coughlin was still coach the offense was good, when coughlin left the offense sucked. I firmly believe Mac removed coughlin's mix of the offense, which probably was the good part of the offense.
I've thought about this. It's been mentioned several times that Mac's offense is not that sophisticated. They run the majority of their plays out of one formation.
Could just be the defensive coordinators caught up to what he was doing
And if you want to talk about a guy who got screwed by the Giants, he's a great example.
Took over the offense at the end of 2006, won two Super Bowls during his time here, and his offenses finished top 10 in points and yards from 2008 through 2011. Then the first year his offense falters, Mara stands up at his end of year press conference, proclaims the offense "broken," and openly speculates why Jerrell freakin' Jernigan didn't get more playing time. And thus he's forced to "retire" so he doesn't get fired.
He’s always been a fairly astute guy. I’m sure we’ll see Eli thrive in a warm location with an Oline, like Jville. Giants fans are so fickle though. I remember when everyone wanted to drive “Killdrive” out of town 4 years ago and now he’s missed?!
He’s always been a fairly astute guy. I’m sure we’ll see Eli thrive in a warm location with an Oline, like Jville. Giants fans are so fickle though. I remember when everyone wanted to drive “Killdrive” out of town 4 years ago and now he’s missed?!
The same morons that wanted Coughlin gone, and the same morons that have wanted Eli benched this year....
When will they run out of scapegoats and accept the reality of the situation?
Hard to believe so many here wanted him gone because Reuben Randal and Jerrell Jernnigan were faltering and all that simplification nonsense. The erudite Mario Manningham flourished in his offense and that should have told everyone his offense was "simple" enough.
I've thought about this. It's been mentioned several times that Mac's offense is not that sophisticated. They run the majority of their plays out of one formation.
They run the majority of their plays (91% last year to be exact) out of the same personnel grouping.
But I don't think the offense is that sophisticated. several opponents have commented about how the Giants telegraph their plays. Sean O'Hara has said they basically have 4 running plays. It is more in the difference in results between Coughlin's offense and Mac's:
- Under Coughlin, we were in the top ten of 20+ yard plays every year but one. The two years under Mac, we are in the bottom 10.
- Coughlin never had the same personnel grouping on the field for more than 60% of the time. Mac ran the 11 personnel grouping 91% last year - the highest any team has for one personnel grouping since 2000
- Coughlin aspired to have a 50/50 mix of run to pass, theoretically keeping the defense "honest". Mac has no philosophy on this and again - the comments by opponents about knowing what is coming
The Giants went from a vertical offense under Gilbride to a hybrid offense instituting some WCO elements with Mac as OC, to almost completely eliminating the vertical aspect with Mac as HC.
It is a vastly different offense, even from 2 years ago.
I've thought about this. It's been mentioned several times that Mac's offense is not that sophisticated. They run the majority of their plays out of one formation.
They run the majority of their plays (91% last year to be exact) out of the same personnel grouping.
But I don't think the offense is that sophisticated. several opponents have commented about how the Giants telegraph their plays. Sean O'Hara has said they basically have 4 running plays. It is more in the difference in results between Coughlin's offense and Mac's:
- Under Coughlin, we were in the top ten of 20+ yard plays every year but one. The two years under Mac, we are in the bottom 10.
- Coughlin never had the same personnel grouping on the field for more than 60% of the time. Mac ran the 11 personnel grouping 91% last year - the highest any team has for one personnel grouping since 2000
- Coughlin aspired to have a 50/50 mix of run to pass, theoretically keeping the defense "honest". Mac has no philosophy on this and again - the comments by opponents about knowing what is coming
The Giants went from a vertical offense under Gilbride to a hybrid offense instituting some WCO elements with Mac as OC, to almost completely eliminating the vertical aspect with Mac as HC.
It is a vastly different offense, even from 2 years ago.
well done Fats
It's too bad that Coughlin will not come out and really say anything.. Â
revisionist history here. Gilbride was most effective when he modified his offense during the 2 Super Bowl runs. Both times, there was less deep vertical attempts and more short to middle passes that were mixed with a strong running game. But outside of those two runs, he and TC were infatuated with the big plays deep and all too often ignored the mid level stuff. Perhaps this was driven by a lack of a TE and improved with the emergence of Cruz in 2011. But that was always my frustration with a Gilbride offense.
Having said that, I despise this current offense. Throw it to OBJ and pray. Ugh.
of the shitty OL you still probably averaged one thread a week trashing Eli and saying he was the problem...
Such a fool...
Since you're so fond of reading my threads, read this...
Big Defender of Eli Manning...
M.S. : 9/11/2017 5:29 am
...over the years. I believe he is a Hall of Fame QB, and I have strongly believed over the past several years (like many others on BBI) that his play has been adversely affected by a weak offensive line that has transformed his game (obviously for the worse).
I also realize that over his entire career there has always been the "good" Eli and the "bad" Eli, and it is our very good fortune that we only saw the former in two amazing Super Bowl runs.
But, but, but...
...in watching games around the league yesterday (especially watching Carson Wentz), a deep gnawing thought crept in that reminded me of the same damn gnawing thoughts I had on occasion about Eli last season (and at times) over the past three or four seasons... and were on full display last night:
(1) Eli is old and he moves around like he is old;
(2) Eli's game was never about making amazing plays with his legs, but he looks more immobile than ever before;
(3) If things are not just perfect for him in the pocket, Eli gets increasingly jittery and his accuracy goes (way) down;
(4) It doesn't look like Eli is able to lift the game of those around him, nor does it look like he is energizing those around him.
Clearly, Eli missed OBJ and his O-line compounded the problem last night, but right now, the Giants have more than just an offensive line to worry about as this season progresses and beyond.
Regardless of how you feel about our Divisional rival QBs, we have in fact two opponents (Dallas and Philly) that have very young and very mobile QBs who can make plays when things are not perfect. And their team mates respond and feed off of them.
revisionist history here. Gilbride was most effective when he modified his offense during the 2 Super Bowl runs. Both times, there was less deep vertical attempts and more short to middle passes that were mixed with a strong running game. But outside of those two runs, he and TC were infatuated with the big plays deep and all too often ignored the mid level stuff. Perhaps this was driven by a lack of a TE and improved with the emergence of Cruz in 2011. But that was always my frustration with a Gilbride offense.
Having said that, I despise this current offense. Throw it to OBJ and pray. Ugh.
Modified his offense? I don't remember that at all.
Strong running game? Hardly in 2011. Dead last in the league. Good coaching and gameplanning, and a powerful runners in Bradshaw and Jacobs allowed some "effective" running, but it was hardly a strong running game.
No mid to short game? Again, disagree, there were lots of hot reads to slants and 10 yard crossing routes. Also the back shoulder fade at 15 yards or so was a staple.
Don't forget when Mac was hired coughlin said the offense would be a mixture of coughlin's\gilbride's offense and Mac's. Interesting that while coughlin was still coach the offense was good, when coughlin left the offense sucked. I firmly believe Mac removed coughlin's mix of the offense, which probably was the good part of the offense.
Exactly. TC insisted on keeping in some of the route options and wanted big plays. KG makes an interesting point about McAdoo using short passes because he doesn't trust the OL, but I think that is just his offense. He has an aversion to going deep.
Ownership screwed this situation up. Reese's neglect of the OL was a firable offense. I thought TC's time had come and gone, but Reese should have been out the door first. I just don't know what he has to do to get fired. And even if you think McAdoo is a hot up and coming coach, you have to acknowledge that his offense wasn't a great fit for Eli, even if he had a solid OL.
on BBI kept blaming (some still do) TC for the OL issue.. Stating that coach wanted to stay with the older OL.. but its clear from KG's conversation that coaches wanted OL help since before 2011..
Please Reese defenders tell me how JR should have a job when him and his FO hasn't been able to provide Eli an OL for almost 8-9 years now? There is only so much any coach in the world can do without OL.. BM, TC even Bilichick can't win when their OL get killed.. People are pissed at BM.. but BM has been only the HC for 1.5 years.. JR has been screwing up since 2007 draft..
And great comments here. The alarming part of all this is how the hell are these bunch of idiots going to fix this mess? We know there is one way, fire the bunch and hire the right man, anyone here believe that John Mara can do that? I know I don't, I hope he can and does, but I have little faith.
Don't forget when Mac was hired coughlin said the offense would be a mixture of coughlin's\gilbride's offense and Mac's. Interesting that while coughlin was still coach the offense was good, when coughlin left the offense sucked. I firmly believe Mac removed coughlin's mix of the offense, which probably was the good part of the offense.
Called this very early in the season last year:
Quote:
Coughlin Offense vs. McAdoo Offense
Britt in VA : 10/28/2016 9:58 am
I'm stirring up a bees nest, but...
Coughlin's offense was built around throwing the ball deep, and moving guys around to create mismatches. McAdoo's offense thus far appears to be just lining up in the same formation and throwing short passes under 10 yards. Under Coughlin, for years we led the league in passes and completions over 15-20 yards.
One has to wonder how much of Coughlin's offense last year was responsible for the offensive success? The personnel is actually better this year than last.
How much of Coughlin's offense was still installed last year in addition to McAdoo's, maybe a hybrid of sorts? Coughlin's philosophy was always to take shots downfield, something that has seemingly all but disappeared since his dismissal. Beckham also lined up in the slot a lot more to create mismatches.
Might eventually have to chalk this one up in the "grass isn't always greener" category. I know that won't be popular, and will bring out the fangs of the Fire Coughlin crowd, but if you're being honest with yourself, what else can you attribute it to?
Last year's offense with this year's defense would be playoff bound.
In the article KG says he does not see any physical downturn in Eli's skills and sees the problem in the continued deterioration in the OL....and according to you you agree..
You then state he is old and can't move and use Dak and Wentz as the type of QB we need...
Guess what...they both have 2 of the best OL's in football both pass pro and run blocking...
A lot of us have been saying maybe Eli's skills have been on the downswing but you cannot know considering the shit he's been surrounded with talent wise (mainly OL, RB, and TE)...
My favorite quote was (and I paraphrase) "I picked up something late in the week on pressures, so I called Eli pretty late on Thursday night and said 'sorry to bother you but we have this to deal with and we just got around to looking at it', but Eli said 'no problem coach, I'm just watching some film' and Eli had already seen what Gilbride was about to discuss with him.
FU McAdoo.
Bottom line is your fix a problem before it gets Â
So for the morons who consistently rush to Reese's defense that he didn't "ignore" the OL. He did until he was forced to draft players. Only Pugh can even be looked at as a solid to above average player
Reese fucked up. Period. He deserved to be fired but upper management is in lockstep w him. So they fired parts of TCs staff then TC. Now IRS Manning's turn to get the blame.
This team is impossible for me to root for for the foreseeable future as I have zero faith in Mr Silver Spoon DNA lottery lightweight Mara Is so involved. Never mind his equally unqualified brother hand picked toadies are around.
He’s always been a fairly astute guy. I’m sure we’ll see Eli thrive in a warm location with an Oline, like Jville. Giants fans are so fickle though. I remember when everyone wanted to drive “Killdrive” out of town 4 years ago and now he’s missed?!
It's interesting. I always respected him and his system, but never thought it was a good fit. I feel bad that it took Reese not addressing the position to basically get Gilbride fired/retired since his system predicated on 5 snd 7 step drops couldn't work with the shitty ass OL we had.
After the 2013 debacle, everyone wanted KG gone for failing to adapt to the horrendous offensive line play. This was a fair criticism, but even though McAdoo's WCO was a big improvement over the 2013 offense, it didn't reach the same heights as the best years under KG and was overly dependent on an all star wide receiver.
His comments really just emphasize how badly the front office has botched the roster and especially the OL since 2011.
I still remember how awful that offensive line was in that 2013 Seattle game. James Brewer had the worst block in football I've ever seen in my life. That dude sucked.
...in light of Gilbride's remarks. (Or, create additional steam).
Go into the BBI archives and find your earliest "I am concerned thread" about our offensive line. Here's one I found from April, 2012.
What's your earliest?
************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Drafting offensive linemen...
M.S. : 4/7/2012 7:07 am
...I keep coming back to the assumption that the Giants will select 2 offensive linemen with premium draft selections (first 3 or 4 rounds.)
I don't think any other position on the Giants is filled with so many questions, issues, concerns:
1) McKenzie is either gone or a backup... or an emergency starter? James Brewer may one day be a very good RT in the NFL. But can he step in this year and start? Will he ever be a starter?
2) Snee deserves the benefit of the doubt, but this former Pro Bowler has been in the trenches for a full 8 years, and his last one was far and away his worst. He's no spring chicken.
3) The same can be said more or less about Diehl... make that 9 years... and he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a liability in the run game when placed inside. If he needs to move over to RT... I consider that one part experiment and one part stop-gap.
4) Kevin Boothe was one of our key quality backups... now he's a starter. Will Mitch Petrus be as good in a backup role?
5) I "think" Baas will be fine at Center, but no one can say he came in here last year and made us all forget about the very fine play of Sean O'Hara.
6) I also think Beatty can be a very good LT. But that's an assumption... hardly a guarantee. He does not have a lot of experience for us to know his ultimate worth... and he is coming off a very serious eye injury.
Surely one can point to needs on the defensive side of the ball (not to mention TE/WR/RB)...
...but at the end of the day, the "12th man" for any defense is an offensive line that control the tempo and keeps the defense well rested.
Such a fool...
Wish they had followed up his comments re: need to reload OLine with some questions about the draft, player evaluation process. That would have provided some even more valuable insights.
Yeah, I think I'll go with this guy's take, especially considering he knows what makes Eli tick on and off the field, rather than an "NFL analyst" who eyeballed it watching tape.
2-Second half of 2012, the line continues to deteriorate with a huge slide in offense productivity, especially Eli's.
3-Dumpster fire offense and OL in 2013. Eli was awful. He hasn't played consistently (for Eli, at least) at a high level since. His numbers were good 2014 and 2015--I think he was top 10 in yards. But we started watching a one-dimensional offense that other teams figured out pretty quickly.
So, Eli fell off a cliff in his prime because his skills suddenly diminished? I don't buy it. I've never bought it.
At this point, it's hard to evaluate Eli at all. Is he permanently skittish? Is he too old? Or is he the same talented pocket passer but without a pocket? Who knows?
Reese cut the legs out from under the team. I hate that guy.
We could add the statisticslly outlieing lack of playoffs surrounding those slim margin lucky runs.
Someone mentioned. Change builds up slowly then happens very quickly.
You’re so right. What the hell does this guy know? Who cares that he’s been in the NFL for yrs and actually worked w Eli and this team. I take what some of these BBI posters who are watching from their couch in their PJs way more seriously. Lol.
Quote:
Is in serious denial about Eli's decline, I've read it here that Eli's skills have eroded.
Yeah, I think I'll go with this guy's take, especially considering he knows what makes Eli tick on and off the field, rather than an "NFL analyst" who eyeballed it watching tape.
Of course you'll get the famous "what is gilbride supposed to say?" line.
Why is it that coaches need to study the game tape to evaluate players while fans who are nobodies when it comes to player evaluation can accurately evaluate a player (qb nonetheless) off of their TV's?
He should be looked at historically as an offensive genius - not just for the implementation of the run and shoot, but how he morphed elements of several offenses into his scheme. If you ever get a chance to hear him talk at a coaches seminar, he's absolutely fascinating to listen to, and you come away knowing the guy is a master at understanding offense.
Yea so - you get what I mean
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
This is the shame of the of the last 5 years here.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Been saying the exact same thing all year.
Does Mara think that Reese will draft an Aaron Rodgers clone (or someone even better!) and then McAdoo is gonna coach up AR2 to high flying grid iron success? I’ve watched pro football for more than 4 decades and I’ve seen one QB with Aaron Rodgers talents and accomplishments. (But I’ve seen a lot of first round can’t miss QBs that flamed out in a few years). I’ve watched Ben McAdoo find zero creative ways to get the football to OBJ. I’ve watched Ben McAdoo suspend 2 pro bowl DBs and one 1st round pick in the span of 5 games - never seen that on any other team in 40+ years. I’ve seen McAdoo and his pathetic coaching staff fail to solve the Tampa 2 defense for two season. On and on and on with the failures of McAdoo. In a season that couldn’t be any worse Mara continues to place his faith in Reese and McAdoo. Why? Who in the heck knows?! So the only real question is WTF is John Mara seeing?
Changes needed to be made:
1. Reese realizes its a personel problem and not a coach problem. This article says Gilbride was arguing for an offensive line investment as early as 09. Listen to him and do it.
2. If you do replace Gilbride, you replace him with a similar offensive minded coach, who tweaks Gilbrides system a bit. Macadoo was not a fit for Eli or Coughlin.
“This isn’t just an overnight thing. People are acting like this just happened. This has been a buildup that needed to be addressed for a while.”
It's so damn obvious and clear what happened. Right in front of our eyes.
crick n NC : 8:55 am : link : reply
Don't forget when Mac was hired coughlin said the offense would be a mixture of coughlin's\gilbride's offense and Mac's. Interesting that while coughlin was still coach the offense was good, when coughlin left the offense sucked. I firmly believe Mac removed coughlin's mix of the offense, which probably was the good part of the offense.
I've thought about this. It's been mentioned several times that Mac's offense is not that sophisticated. They run the majority of their plays out of one formation.
Could just be the defensive coordinators caught up to what he was doing
Took over the offense at the end of 2006, won two Super Bowls during his time here, and his offenses finished top 10 in points and yards from 2008 through 2011. Then the first year his offense falters, Mara stands up at his end of year press conference, proclaims the offense "broken," and openly speculates why Jerrell freakin' Jernigan didn't get more playing time. And thus he's forced to "retire" so he doesn't get fired.
The same morons that wanted Coughlin gone, and the same morons that have wanted Eli benched this year....
When will they run out of scapegoats and accept the reality of the situation?
They run the majority of their plays (91% last year to be exact) out of the same personnel grouping.
But I don't think the offense is that sophisticated. several opponents have commented about how the Giants telegraph their plays. Sean O'Hara has said they basically have 4 running plays. It is more in the difference in results between Coughlin's offense and Mac's:
- Under Coughlin, we were in the top ten of 20+ yard plays every year but one. The two years under Mac, we are in the bottom 10.
- Coughlin never had the same personnel grouping on the field for more than 60% of the time. Mac ran the 11 personnel grouping 91% last year - the highest any team has for one personnel grouping since 2000
- Coughlin aspired to have a 50/50 mix of run to pass, theoretically keeping the defense "honest". Mac has no philosophy on this and again - the comments by opponents about knowing what is coming
The Giants went from a vertical offense under Gilbride to a hybrid offense instituting some WCO elements with Mac as OC, to almost completely eliminating the vertical aspect with Mac as HC.
It is a vastly different offense, even from 2 years ago.
Quote:
I've thought about this. It's been mentioned several times that Mac's offense is not that sophisticated. They run the majority of their plays out of one formation.
They run the majority of their plays (91% last year to be exact) out of the same personnel grouping.
But I don't think the offense is that sophisticated. several opponents have commented about how the Giants telegraph their plays. Sean O'Hara has said they basically have 4 running plays. It is more in the difference in results between Coughlin's offense and Mac's:
- Under Coughlin, we were in the top ten of 20+ yard plays every year but one. The two years under Mac, we are in the bottom 10.
- Coughlin never had the same personnel grouping on the field for more than 60% of the time. Mac ran the 11 personnel grouping 91% last year - the highest any team has for one personnel grouping since 2000
- Coughlin aspired to have a 50/50 mix of run to pass, theoretically keeping the defense "honest". Mac has no philosophy on this and again - the comments by opponents about knowing what is coming
The Giants went from a vertical offense under Gilbride to a hybrid offense instituting some WCO elements with Mac as OC, to almost completely eliminating the vertical aspect with Mac as HC.
It is a vastly different offense, even from 2 years ago.
well done Fats
Having said that, I despise this current offense. Throw it to OBJ and pray. Ugh.
Such a fool...
Since you're so fond of reading my threads, read this...
Big Defender of Eli Manning...
M.S. : 9/11/2017 5:29 am
...over the years. I believe he is a Hall of Fame QB, and I have strongly believed over the past several years (like many others on BBI) that his play has been adversely affected by a weak offensive line that has transformed his game (obviously for the worse).
I also realize that over his entire career there has always been the "good" Eli and the "bad" Eli, and it is our very good fortune that we only saw the former in two amazing Super Bowl runs.
But, but, but...
...in watching games around the league yesterday (especially watching Carson Wentz), a deep gnawing thought crept in that reminded me of the same damn gnawing thoughts I had on occasion about Eli last season (and at times) over the past three or four seasons... and were on full display last night:
(1) Eli is old and he moves around like he is old;
(2) Eli's game was never about making amazing plays with his legs, but he looks more immobile than ever before;
(3) If things are not just perfect for him in the pocket, Eli gets increasingly jittery and his accuracy goes (way) down;
(4) It doesn't look like Eli is able to lift the game of those around him, nor does it look like he is energizing those around him.
Clearly, Eli missed OBJ and his O-line compounded the problem last night, but right now, the Giants have more than just an offensive line to worry about as this season progresses and beyond.
Regardless of how you feel about our Divisional rival QBs, we have in fact two opponents (Dallas and Philly) that have very young and very mobile QBs who can make plays when things are not perfect. And their team mates respond and feed off of them.
We do not. And that is a very big problem.
Having said that, I despise this current offense. Throw it to OBJ and pray. Ugh.
Modified his offense? I don't remember that at all.
Strong running game? Hardly in 2011. Dead last in the league. Good coaching and gameplanning, and a powerful runners in Bradshaw and Jacobs allowed some "effective" running, but it was hardly a strong running game.
No mid to short game? Again, disagree, there were lots of hot reads to slants and 10 yard crossing routes. Also the back shoulder fade at 15 yards or so was a staple.
Exactly. TC insisted on keeping in some of the route options and wanted big plays. KG makes an interesting point about McAdoo using short passes because he doesn't trust the OL, but I think that is just his offense. He has an aversion to going deep.
Ownership screwed this situation up. Reese's neglect of the OL was a firable offense. I thought TC's time had come and gone, but Reese should have been out the door first. I just don't know what he has to do to get fired. And even if you think McAdoo is a hot up and coming coach, you have to acknowledge that his offense wasn't a great fit for Eli, even if he had a solid OL.
Please Reese defenders tell me how JR should have a job when him and his FO hasn't been able to provide Eli an OL for almost 8-9 years now? There is only so much any coach in the world can do without OL.. BM, TC even Bilichick can't win when their OL get killed.. People are pissed at BM.. but BM has been only the HC for 1.5 years.. JR has been screwing up since 2007 draft..
Called this very early in the season last year:
Britt in VA : 10/28/2016 9:58 am
I'm stirring up a bees nest, but...
Coughlin's offense was built around throwing the ball deep, and moving guys around to create mismatches. McAdoo's offense thus far appears to be just lining up in the same formation and throwing short passes under 10 yards. Under Coughlin, for years we led the league in passes and completions over 15-20 yards.
One has to wonder how much of Coughlin's offense last year was responsible for the offensive success? The personnel is actually better this year than last.
How much of Coughlin's offense was still installed last year in addition to McAdoo's, maybe a hybrid of sorts? Coughlin's philosophy was always to take shots downfield, something that has seemingly all but disappeared since his dismissal. Beckham also lined up in the slot a lot more to create mismatches.
Might eventually have to chalk this one up in the "grass isn't always greener" category. I know that won't be popular, and will bring out the fangs of the Fire Coughlin crowd, but if you're being honest with yourself, what else can you attribute it to?
Last year's offense with this year's defense would be playoff bound.
Got blasted for it.
Link - ( New Window )
You then state he is old and can't move and use Dak and Wentz as the type of QB we need...
Guess what...they both have 2 of the best OL's in football both pass pro and run blocking...
A lot of us have been saying maybe Eli's skills have been on the downswing but you cannot know considering the shit he's been surrounded with talent wise (mainly OL, RB, and TE)...
QB - Eli
TOP RB - Andre Brown, David Wilson (played 4 games)
WR - Cruz (missed 4 games), Nicks, Randle
TE - Myers
LT - Beatty
LG - Boothe
C - Baas (played 3 games), Jim Cordle
RG - Snee (played 2 games) Deihl
RT - Pugh
With the benefit of hindsight, would you say it was the personel or John Mara's "Broken Offense" explanation?
My favorite quote was (and I paraphrase) "I picked up something late in the week on pressures, so I called Eli pretty late on Thursday night and said 'sorry to bother you but we have this to deal with and we just got around to looking at it', but Eli said 'no problem coach, I'm just watching some film' and Eli had already seen what Gilbride was about to discuss with him.
FU McAdoo.
So for the morons who consistently rush to Reese's defense that he didn't "ignore" the OL. He did until he was forced to draft players. Only Pugh can even be looked at as a solid to above average player
Reese fucked up. Period. He deserved to be fired but upper management is in lockstep w him. So they fired parts of TCs staff then TC. Now IRS Manning's turn to get the blame.
This team is impossible for me to root for for the foreseeable future as I have zero faith in Mr Silver Spoon DNA lottery lightweight Mara Is so involved. Never mind his equally unqualified brother hand picked toadies are around.
It's interesting. I always respected him and his system, but never thought it was a good fit. I feel bad that it took Reese not addressing the position to basically get Gilbride fired/retired since his system predicated on 5 snd 7 step drops couldn't work with the shitty ass OL we had.