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NFT: Yankees offseason - what next?

mavric : 12/10/2017 9:09 am
With the blockbuster steal of the decade with Stanton joining the Yanks, there are still holes to fill; mainly starting pitching and 2nd base.

The Yanks would be in fine position if they stood pat, but I doubt they will.

I expect a deal with CC, but the way pitchers go down during the season, I think the Yanks would be shopping for another starter. Hopefully, they give Chance Adams a shot, but that's rarely their style.

We can put Torreyes or Wade in at 2nd, but I think the Yanks want more punch there. Torres still needs seasoning before he comes up for more than a cup of coffee.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Yanks sign CC, and shop for a SP for insurance and maybe a 2nd baseman. I'd love to see them sign Todd Frazier, but that's probably a pipe dream. He's an upgrade over Headley and can stand in at 1st if Bird falters or gets injured.
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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar  
rich in DC : 12/10/2017 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13733892 Dang Man said:
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In comment 13733834 rich in DC said:


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In comment 13733463 Dang Man said:


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In comment 13733373 rich in DC said:


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In comment 13733332 Dang Man said:


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In comment 13733244 yatqb said:


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In comment 13733140 Dang Man said:


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Still don’t think he has a future on this team. His defense may have gotten a touch better but he’s a liability at third. He won’t DH but better serves this team as a trade chip for a starting pitcher. Headley is also under contract and will likely be the starting third baseman on opening day (he doesn’t have muchbtrade value ) unless they resign Frazier.



I don't agree. He's a 22 yo kid. There's plenty of time for him to develop. And I like his bat.



You never know. If he improves that much I’d be pleasantly surprised, but for a team that’s ready to compete now I’m not sure they have the luxury of waiting for his glove to get better. That doesn’t happen overnight.



Except that your belief isn't true. Scouts have reported that his defense is no ML ready. He is NOT a liability defensively.



Provide a link? I’ve seen this from not one source.

Rich, you are a worthless troll. You tell people their opinion is wrong all the time and provide no evidence whatsoever. Regardless of the topic. You must be a real blast to hang out with.



Well it helps my case tremendously that you are almost ALWAYS wrong and I am here to point it out.

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false- which is where the problem is- not with me, not with my statements, but because when you are wrong, you can't deal and refuse to admit it. Grow up.



Pot meet kettle. And where’s this so called proof that scouts think his glove is major league ready?

Face it, you’re a little person who comes in threads to point out that people’s opinions are wrong. I’ve seen you do it to different posters time and time again. I’m glad it makes you feel better about yourself.


I LOVE Internet tough guys. When they have nothing, they throw insults to make themselves feel like they are winning.

I can tell you with all due certainty that I DO know more than you about this- and when you find out how wrong you are, you will slink away and pretend that this never happened. That's what Internet tough guys do.

I can tell you this- when I tell you that you are wrong, it is because it is true- not to make myself feel better. If it makes you feel better to throw insults because you don't have any evidence to support your points, I really don't care. In the end, I am right, and you are not.

Go ahead and make another nonsense post about how I just tell everyone they are wrong. I don't care- it just demonstrates that you don't have any FACTS on your side and are using the posts as therapy.
RE: The list of available starting pitchers is so short  
rich in DC : 12/10/2017 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13734035 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
that of the guys most likely to accept a 1 year-deal, Sabathia clearly looks like the best of that bunch. I know we're interested in Cobb, but if that doesn't happen, will the Yanks really try to get Arrieta or Darvish? Would they take a chance on Cashner? It really is slim pickings in the SP department.


I think CC has something left- but he might not be the 5th best SP on this team. I think Adams is ready now- though having a vet option on hand would be wise. I also think that German and Sheffield would both be ready before the end of 2018.

As much as CC would be a great locker room guy, I think that it would be difficult to ask him to go to the pen or trade him when the younger guys are ready.

It might be best to simply make a trade for a vet #5 SP type who doesn't have a big contract- and can be shifted to the pen when the young guys are ready.
Hal Steinbrenner recently commented that  
xman : 12/10/2017 10:02 pm : link
Andujar's defense was much improved. Source is Pinstripe Alley. Lets hope so though I want to sign Moustakas
It's official, and Stanton is very happy.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/10/2017 10:55 pm : link
Jon Heyman‏Verified account
@JonHeyman

Giancarlo Stanton, who’s passed his physical and is officially a Yankee, is said by a friend to be “very happy” with how it turned out. Press conferrence is at 2 et tomorrow.
Josh bard  
mitch300 : 12/11/2017 12:27 am : link
Is Yankees bench coach. Was the bullpen coach for the dodgers the last two seasons
So rich didn't provide a link.  
manh george : 12/11/2017 12:47 am : link
Bad rich. Bad, bad rich.

I will

Quote:
Here’s the latest on Andujar, whose glove is starting to catch up to his potent bat, according to manager Joe Girardi and infield instructor Joe Espada

Espada's thoughts on Andujar
How far has Andujar’s defense come? “He’s come a long ways. I do spend a lot of time watching those guys on video. But I see more consistency in his overall body of work, the way his body’s working, his feet, his arm. Everything is moving forward. He looks so much better than he did in spring training...What’s his best asset defensively? “Arm strength. And he catches the ball. So now it’s, if we can get him to catch and to maintain his footwork toward his target, he’s going to be fine.”


That much progress at age 22 would likely project to at least being adequate (Headley plus) in 2018.


Link - ( New Window )
My favorite part of all this  
Matt M. : 12/11/2017 12:48 am : link
was Didi's playful tweet to Aaron Boone asking if he was still the cleanup hitter.
RE: The chatter is Headley is being shopped...  
Matt M. : 12/11/2017 12:48 am : link
In comment 13732659 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
He has a market rate deal with one year left, if they want to shave salary he's easier to move than Ells, where they'd have to eat probably 75% and he has veto power. I'd be fine to keep Headley, but that was a trade-off they made with Stanton. Huge bat and star power, but limited money to address starting pitching.
Makes a lot of sense.
.  
Bill2 : 12/11/2017 7:18 am : link
Ok

I don't have a horse in this race and no interest in a debate

But

That quote was about the time Andujar got sent back down.

Obviously encouraging the young man ...who we all hope improves. After all, he is young. But he also has played basic baseball for more than 6 years.

Read the last sentence:

"So now it’s, if we can get him to catch and to maintain his footwork toward his target, he’s going to be fine"

so in other words a basic critical motor skill is not yet consistent.

My submission is that you all violently agree.

1) The Yankees clearly say for his consumption and for the rest of the teams who would listen...that he has improved...sometimes ( not yet consistent)

2) In doing so the Yankees say what our eyes tell us that he is "still" a suspect infield defender if we are talking a potential MLB WS contender.

At 22 is basic defense still an issue for guys like Torres or any "sure fire" infield prospect for a championship team?

Ok...then he is still a prospect prospect?






RE: Josh bard  
rich in DC : 12/11/2017 9:45 am : link
In comment 13734817 mitch300 said:
Quote:
Is Yankees bench coach. Was the bullpen coach for the dodgers the last two seasons


I think I saw this morning that Phil Nevin was named 3rd base coach. Two fun facts there: 1) Nevin and Boone were apparently High School teammates. 2) Nevin got picked before Jeter in the draft- because the Astros thought Jeter was going to be too expensive to sign.

I know Nevin has a lot of minor league coaching experience and was supposed to join SF and their 3B coach this season- BUT, he did have a rep as a bit of a hothead as a player.
RE: RE: Josh bard  
rich in DC : 12/11/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13735137 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 13734817 mitch300 said:


Quote:


Is Yankees bench coach. Was the bullpen coach for the dodgers the last two seasons



I think I saw this morning that Phil Nevin was named 3rd base coach. Two fun facts there: 1) Nevin and Boone were apparently High School teammates. 2) Nevin got picked before Jeter in the draft- because the Astros thought Jeter was going to be too expensive to sign.

I know Nevin has a lot of minor league coaching experience and was supposed to join SF and their 3B coach this season- BUT, he did have a rep as a bit of a hothead as a player.


Because someone will demand a link, here it is. Not only Nevin and Bard, but Harkey returns, according to Bob Nightengale.


Yankee coaches - ( New Window )
RE: RE: The chatter is Headley is being shopped...  
rich in DC : 12/11/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13734834 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13732659 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


He has a market rate deal with one year left, if they want to shave salary he's easier to move than Ells, where they'd have to eat probably 75% and he has veto power. I'd be fine to keep Headley, but that was a trade-off they made with Stanton. Huge bat and star power, but limited money to address starting pitching.

Makes a lot of sense.


There are rumors (on sites like MLB Trade Rumors and ESPN) that SF badly wants a 3B- but has numerous other holes to fix without a lot of spending space. Maybe the Yanks can talk them into Headley if they send over a couple young minimum salary relievers or some middle INF prospects?
My Thoughts  
Don Draper : 12/11/2017 12:13 pm : link

Gardner is 34 years-old  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/11/2017 12:28 pm : link
and Aaron Hicks is 28 with one good major league season under his belt. I wouldn't go so crazy with the being "blocked" stuff that I'd trade Clint already. If he can have a spring like Bird, Sanchez, and Judge had this year, he'll force his way into the team's lineup sooner rather than later.
Hicks and Gardner are centerfielders  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 12:35 pm : link
Frazier isn't
Can't play Frazier in CF with Judge and Stanton at the corners  
Heisenberg : 12/11/2017 12:42 pm : link
Need a guy with great range to make up for the other two. Don't think Frazier can do that.

He's probably gonna get traded now.
Judge and Stanton are good outfielders though  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 12:57 pm : link
Yes, you'd want a CF with plus range, but it's not as if those guys are Gary Sheffield out there.
RE: Can't play Frazier in CF with Judge and Stanton at the corners  
mavric : 12/11/2017 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13735546 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Need a guy with great range to make up for the other two. Don't think Frazier can do that.

He's probably gonna get traded now.


Estevan Florial is being groomed for the CF position. He's still too green and needs some seasoning, but he's going to be a star in MLB. In a pinch, Wade can play CF and Hicks has some good range as well. Ellsbury is very expendable.

Frazier (Clint) will stay in the system unless the Cash can butt rape a team in need of a power OF. Just hope he never ends up in Boston.
Patience  
GiantJake : 12/11/2017 1:07 pm : link
No reason to rush Headley out of town before finding out if Andujar or Torres are ready to take over. What if they both struggle in the spring...who plays 3B? Keep Headley right where he is for now. If some team comes along and makes an offer that you can't turn down...then maybe you pull the trigger,
Headley is the definition of average  
arniefez : 12/11/2017 1:11 pm : link
his OPS+ last year was actually an even 100. It was 90 & 91 the 2 years before that. He's not a plus player in any way. The sooner he's gone the better and they could use that money in 2018 for pitching.
Heyman tweeted the Yankees  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 1:11 pm : link
are willing to eat about half of Ellsbury's deal in a trade. Might as well not even waste their time making calls.
CF  
2cents : 12/11/2017 1:12 pm : link
at this point, the yanks will be hoping Hicks can come back and play at his pre - injured level from last year. he could be the perfect CF between judge and stanton. switch hitter with great glove, plus range with plus plus arm.

absolutely have to move elsbury and head into spring training with OF group of Hicks, Gardner, Judge and Stanton. can reasonably expect to rotate between all four, let Frazier force them to give him ABs and consistent playing time.
RE: Can't play Frazier in CF with Judge and Stanton at the corners  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/11/2017 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13735546 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Need a guy with great range to make up for the other two. Don't think Frazier can do that.

He's probably gonna get traded now.


Are we certain that those guys will be the starting corner OFs (in AL parks)? I wouldn't want to play them at the same time.
I would NOT trade Frazier yet  
DennyInDenville : 12/11/2017 1:17 pm : link
Judge/Stanton will DH atleast 3-5 days a week combined

That mean Gardy/Hicks/Florial eventually for CF

Frazier is the backup corner OF
Why are you acting as if Stanton and Judge are butchers in the OF?  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 1:18 pm : link
They're not. They're pretty good out there.
RE: Why are you acting as if Stanton and Judge are butchers in the OF?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/11/2017 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13735632 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
They're not. They're pretty good out there.


They're not and I never said they were. I want Stanton to DH most of the time, especially if he's going to be here for the duration of his contract. As I said in the original trade thread, I want Stanton to look like 37 year-old David Ortiz/Edgar Martinez in 9-10 years instead of 37 year-old Albert Pujols.
RE: Heyman tweeted the Yankees  
rich in DC : 12/11/2017 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13735610 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
are willing to eat about half of Ellsbury's deal in a trade. Might as well not even waste their time making calls.


They could also try to do "offset" trades like they just did with Stanton- Castro partially offset the next two years. The Yanks could just take back a "less bad" contract in exchange for Ellsbury- assuming Ellsbury would waiver his no-trade clause.

Just as an example (NOT proposing, just trying to use two actual players as a hypothetical example), if the Yanks traded Ellsbury to the Cubs, they could take back Ben Zobrist. Zobrist has 2 years at $14M per (for luxury tax purposes- $29M in actual dollars) while Ellsbury has 3 years at $21.14, plus a $5M buyout ($70.5M for luxury tax purposes $68.5M left in actual dollars).

In this hypothetical, the Cubs would essentially be taking on only an additional $7M per in luxury tax for the next two years, then $21.9M in year 3- plus a $5M buyout in year 4. The Yanks could chip in an additional $21M ($7M per), making the first 2 years a wash financially for the Cubs and only $14M in year 3- plus the buyout.

This is just to illustrate an option. However, as we can see, it would involve the Yanks taking on a bad contract in return- though with a shorter deal like that, they probably could deal that contract away later.
..  
Ryan in Albany : 12/11/2017 1:56 pm : link
Dan Federico‏
@RealDanFederico
9m9 minutes ago
More
According to Buster Olney, the #Yankees are in contact with the Pirates in regards to Gerrit Cole. Can Cashman work more magic?
RE: ..  
adamg : 12/11/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13735768 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:
Dan Federico‏
@RealDanFederico
9m9 minutes ago
More
According to Buster Olney, the #Yankees are in contact with the Pirates in regards to Gerrit Cole. Can Cashman work more magic?


Is this how Frazier ends his Yankees run?
man, that will kill the buzz from Stanton  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 2:07 pm : link
I don't want that lying sack of shit on the Yankees.
RE: man, that will kill the buzz from Stanton  
DennyInDenville : 12/11/2017 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13735799 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I don't want that lying sack of shit on the Yankees.

Hmmm why so?

I'm not huge on him either but he's got an arm.

Is this the lie? 19:08 vs 19:09? I googled negative stories on him and this is all I came up with


Cole lied about delaying the start time of a baseball game once by 1 minute - ( New Window )
No, his people said if the deal was right, he'd sign out of HS  
guitarguybs12 : 12/11/2017 2:14 pm : link
So the Yankees went and used their 1st round pick on him...only for him then to totally refuse to so much as even letting the Yankees attempt to make an offer.
UCLA pitcher Gerrit Cole, a potential No. 1 Pirates pick, reminds Yankees of what might have been - ( New Window )
Sounds promising for you Greg  
adamg : 12/11/2017 2:14 pm : link
Quote:
Jon Heyman‏Verified account
@JonHeyman
13m13 minutes ago
More
Yankees are interested in gerrit cole, who they once drafted. But initial impression is pirates arent trading him.
Let the Cole grudge go  
Kyle in NY : 12/11/2017 2:15 pm : link
it's silly at this point
RE: No, his people said if the deal was right, he'd sign out of HS  
DennyInDenville : 12/11/2017 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13735812 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
So the Yankees went and used their 1st round pick on him...only for him then to totally refuse to so much as even letting the Yankees attempt to make an offer. UCLA pitcher Gerrit Cole, a potential No. 1 Pirates pick, reminds Yankees of what might have been - ( New Window )

Thank you.

Don't want this guy.
That said  
Kyle in NY : 12/11/2017 2:16 pm : link
I do have concerns about how Cole's numbers have been tracking lately. I'm not sure he's worth what it would take to acquire (Frazier+ in all likelihood).
exactly right  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 2:18 pm : link
It's not that he didn't sign with the Yankees. That kind of thing happens. The issue is that Cole and his father said that, while he intended to attend UCLA, he would be open to negotiation. Then they never so much as answered a phone when Cashman called. If they had said "Look, Gerrit is committed to UCLA and there isn't an offer you can make to change his mind", then the Yankees wouldn't have wasted their first round pick.

The least he could have done was listen. Couldn't be bothered.
RE: Let the Cole grudge go  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13735814 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
it's silly at this point


Be advised, forgiveness is not what I do best. Cole is a snake.
.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/11/2017 2:18 pm : link
RE: RE: Let the Cole grudge go  
Kyle in NY : 12/11/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13735826 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13735814 Kyle in NY said:


Quote:


it's silly at this point



Be advised, forgiveness is not what I do best. Cole is a snake.


Well you don't lack self-awareness at least :)

I don't want Cole, but not for those reasons
Someone needs to tell Hal  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 2:54 pm : link
it's OK to enjoy being principal owner of the New York Yankees.
Heard most of the Stanton press conference  
mfsd : 12/11/2017 2:55 pm : link
It was interesting bc at the winter meetings, there were reporters from St Louis and LA who asked questions about why it didn’t happen with their teams, and a couple people from Miami asked for detail about what happened with the Marlins.

He sounded pretty good, but it was obvious he wasn’t happy with his interactions (or lack thereof) with Jeter and the new management, and he was not inclined to do them a solid and agree to St Louis or San Francisco. He didn’t do a very good job hiding his disdain for the Marlins front office.

A couple examples:

- he said clearly he gave his list of 4 approved teams he’d waive his NTC clause for before the proposed deals with St Louis and SF were made.

- When asked why he took the St Louis meeting despite them not being on his list, he said all he’s known is the Marlins, and he wanted to see how other organizations do business.

- When asked if he had a message for Marlins fans, he said hang in there, but maybe watch from afar for a while. Ouch
There's a prospect price where Cole would make sense.  
Heisenberg : 12/11/2017 3:05 pm : link
But he's been kind of middling for a while now. and he's got, what, two years until free agency?

I doubt that the Pirates would accept the prospects I would offer for him. Seems unlikely that a match can be found.

Maybe Chris Archer? He's at least battle tested in the AL East.
I like Cole  
Milton : 12/11/2017 3:26 pm : link
He showed enough promise to be the first pick in the draft and then backed it up by finishing 4th in Cy Young voting in 2015. So he has proven he can match potential with production. Since 2015, he had an injury plagued 2016 and an up and down 2017 in which he had stretches of dominance and other times got lit up (not unlike Tanaka last year).

If a trade can be worked out, the Yankees are getting a pitcher who would be a #3 or #4 starter at worst and potentially the ace of the staff if he returns to his 2015 form and builds off it. So he has both a high floor and a high ceiling. If it's a package of Frazier, Betances, and a mid-level prospect or two, it makes a lot of sense and doesn't hurt the payroll.

p.s.-Imagine if they could then land Hand? What kind of off-season would that be if they added Stanton, Cole, and Hand? It would surely take the sting out of missing on Ohtani!
Greg, I don't have any issues with Cole. He was a HS kid at the time,  
yatqb : 12/11/2017 4:33 pm : link
and it's clear that his wealthy father called the shot on not talking with the Yankees. It sucked, I was pissed, but I can't hold it against an 18 year old kid whose father had all the power.

After all, Cole was a Yankee fan growing up; I can't imagine that HE decided not to even talk with them.
...  
EddieNYG : 12/11/2017 5:12 pm : link
Quote:
Buster Olney

@Buster_ESPN

The Pirates are willing to listen to offers for Gerrit Cole; the Yankees and Pirates match up well for potential deals at this juncture, as sources confirm; Brian Cashman and Neal Huntington have an extensive trade history. Time will tell.
4:12 PM - Dec 11, 2017

Link - ( New Window )
I think Clint's gonna be growing out that hair again soon.  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 5:14 pm : link
.
Yanks are 20 mill under per Heyman  
adamg : 12/11/2017 5:45 pm : link
Quote:

Yankees math: even after giancarlo-starlin swap, Yanks are close to 20M under threshold. Still looking to trade pieces (headley, ells) to free more cash.
RE: RE: man, that will kill the buzz from Stanton  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 8:13 pm : link
In comment 13735804 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
In comment 13735799 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


I don't want that lying sack of shit on the Yankees.


Hmmm why so?

I'm not huge on him either but he's got an arm.

Is this the lie? 19:08 vs 19:09? I googled negative stories on him and this is all I came up with
Cole lied about delaying the start time of a baseball game once by 1 minute - ( New Window )

Shocking that you don't have any knowledge of 2008. Because you were what? 7? Maybe 8 years old then?
RE: I like Cole  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2017 8:18 pm : link
In comment 13736005 Milton said:
Quote:
He showed enough promise to be the first pick in the draft and then backed it up by finishing 4th in Cy Young voting in 2015. So he has proven he can match potential with production. Since 2015, he had an injury plagued 2016 and an up and down 2017 in which he had stretches of dominance and other times got lit up (not unlike Tanaka last year).

If a trade can be worked out, the Yankees are getting a pitcher who would be a #3 or #4 starter at worst and potentially the ace of the staff if he returns to his 2015 form and builds off it. So he has both a high floor and a high ceiling. If it's a package of Frazier, Betances, and a mid-level prospect or two, it makes a lot of sense and doesn't hurt the payroll.

p.s.-Imagine if they could then land Hand? What kind of off-season would that be if they added Stanton, Cole, and Hand? It would surely take the sting out of missing on Ohtani!

Milton, I know you've been high on Cole for a while, but you can't send an ace-level prospect package away in trade for a guy that "would be a #3 or #4 starter at worst" - there is almost no chance that the Yanks would score a bargain (in terms of trade value) for Cole, so they'd be paying full price for the upside and risking the downside on their own.
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