He is at best an average QB...In the past two seasons the offense has been putrid, and he DOES have some blame on his part about that....Is it going to take Davis Webb TWO YEARS to sit in the bench and learn. The Giants can save 20 million or so and invest it on the Offensive Line....I thought that it was THE QUARTERBACK COACH'S job that was suppose to train these young QBs not a 20 million dollar QB
that has seen better days and regressing at that. And when the Giants are 2-7 next season and they bench Eli for a younger QB....World War Three will occur again without the help of KIM, Yong Un....Is Eli running this Organization or what?????
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In comment 13740415 micky said:
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qb
English please?
so anal aren't you?
Please explain to me how building a strong offensive line and solid running game is akin to building around a 37 year old QB rather than just sound roster building philosophy?
I'll say it again and again. GIVE ELI A RUNNING GAME! Trust me....I promise you if this team found a good to great running attack Eli would clean up. He wouldn't be perfect he's never been perfect but he will win. He might still throw two INTS that look terrible but he will also throw 3 TDs and win the games.
Give. Eli. A. Running Game. He never loses more than 8 games in a season if the running game is there. Never. And he usually wins 9 or more.
With the pass catchers this team has at its disposal the Giants need to focus all their resources on the ground game. Fix the OL and add a RB and this team will win. The D isn't that bad.
Love Eli Manning, want him on the team, but that is a lot of money for a stopgap QB.
If the front office feels that we are not contenders next year, and I don't think we are, then what is the point?
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I am sooo sick of hearing this
superspynyg : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past
Don't take his word for it:
Kevin Gilbride:
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Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.
“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.
“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”
Greg Cosell:
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Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”
Sy'56:
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Eli Manning: 31/46 – 228 yards – 1 TD/2 INT. The two interceptions at the end of the game have an asterisk next to them. It was desperation time and he had to force things. The drops by Shepard and Lewis were killers and, at this point, both inexcusable but expected, ironically. Manning didn’t have a lot of “minus” throws and he just doesn’t have time to go through a lot of reads. This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with from what I have seen.
"This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with."
John Mara:
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"I'm concerned about our team. We still think he can play. We obviously have to get better around him."
John Gruden, when asked if he'd come back to coach the Giants, said "I would consider it if Eli Manning was there.
When the professionals give their evaluation of what's wrong, it's not hard to see the common denominator. It's not Eli's ability.
And before someboyd inevitably zeros in with laser like focus on the "dependent player" thing from Cosell, Eli has always been that. We have not put the players around him to succeed for the past five years, and THAT is the difference. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why Jerry Reese is fired. They did not build around their franchise QB's strengths. Gilbride said it himself. “As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.” Yet we built and installed an offense that relied on just that. Even worse that we did it in Eli's prime years. It's easy to go back to 2013 and see Jerry Reese deflecting from his poor job of building an offensive line with the "skittish" comments, and then to McAdoo's constant criticisms of "having to play in dirty pockets", or the other excuse that line play is poor around the league. It's all bullsh-t. We knew what he could and couldn't do and we did not put a team around him that supported those strengths. And we still haven't. Hopefully the new coach and GM will do that if he decides to stay.
And it doesn't have to be ALL WORLD TALENT everywhere as some will use hyperbole to state. But it has to be at least competent, and we have not had that.
Now you can whine and complain about Eli lovers, apologists, declines, salaries, etc.... But the truth is right in front of you if you want to see it.
This +1
I'll say it again and again. GIVE ELI A RUNNING GAME! Trust me....I promise you if this team found a good to great running attack Eli would clean up. He wouldn't be perfect he's never been perfect but he will win. He might still throw two INTS that look terrible but he will also throw 3 TDs and win the games.
Give. Eli. A. Running Game. He never loses more than 8 games in a season if the running game is there. Never. And he usually wins 9 or more.
With the pass catchers this team has at its disposal the Giants need to focus all their resources on the ground game. Fix the OL and add a RB and this team will win. The D isn't that bad.
The stats do not back that up. He has been in decline. It not typical for a 37 year old QB to start playing better, they get worse. He has not scored more than 30 points in 2 years. Trade or cut Eli, invest the savings and or draft picks into the OL and let young player learn. Much better for the immediate and more distant future of the franchise. Or continue overpaying for Eli and field a 2 win franchise.
Then Coughlin was fired and McAdoo took over. But yeah, I'm sure it's Eli.
Kevin Gilbride, Greg Cosell, Jon Gruden, John Mara, Pat Kirwan, Bill Polian, Gil Brandt, or even BBI's own Sy'56?
Or thegratefulhead?
Gonna have to think about that one awhile....
The supporting cast stinks. The offensive scheme stinks. The linebackers suck other than Goodson who cannot stay healthy. Just inserting Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield does not fix anything. On the list of things wrong with this team, Eli’s decline is on there but it is like number 13 on a list of 20.
The supporting cast stinks. The offensive scheme stinks. The linebackers suck other than Goodson who cannot stay healthy. Just inserting Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield does not fix anything. On the list of things wrong with this team, Eli’s decline is on there but it is like number 13 on a list of 20.
It's so simple, I don't see why others can't see this.
Then Coughlin was fired and McAdoo took over. But yeah, I'm sure it's Eli.
You're hanging your hat on some single stat of efficiency over the past five years, which by the way, Eli is sandwiched right in between Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan in, and guys like Alex Smith and Tyrod Taylor rank higher than Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers to prove your point.
In 2015, Eli Manning threw for 35 TD's and 4400 yards. Good for 2nd and 6th in the NFL respectively, and you're trying to lump that in as some sort of down year....
You are the posterboy right now for misusing advanced metrics.
It's awfully convenient and easy to say Eli is in decline but take a look at the offense around him. The offense is worse, not Eli.
Give Eli a running game and everything improves. I guarantee it. Eli is a play action QB that is adept at reading defenses. That's his game. So what do the Giants do? Add more and more receivers and all but ignore the OL and RBs. Brilliant.
Eli will win if the Giants can run the ball. I will bet anyone here as much money as you want. I will fund money to my paypal account right now and bet anyone here that if the Giants rush for over 1800 yards in 2018 and Eli is the QB that the Giants win at least 8-9 games without even looking at the WRs or defense. Now, you could say the same thing about most QBs possibly, but find me a QB that will deliver like Eli can in the big spot. There's the rub.
Keep Eli. Fix the running game. Win.
I have more so been on the side that Eli is declining. The truth of the matter is, we really do not know because
1) the scheme does not fit his strengths
2) O-line is way too inconsistent and there is not enough commitment to the run game. Eli has always been a good play action quarterback. If you ask him to throw the ball 35-40 times a game, we will continue to suck.
I love Mayfield, but i don't see the Giants picking a scheme that fits his strengths. I think Rosen should be their guy. Contrary to popular belief, letting a rookie come in and sit is still a good way to go. Let's get back to Giants football. under center, let the RUN GAME open up the PASS, not vice versa. Give Eli another 1-2 years, hand the keys to Rosen.
Just fix the fucking running game.
It's awfully convenient and easy to say Eli is in decline but take a look at the offense around him. The offense is worse, not Eli.
Give Eli a running game and everything improves. I guarantee it. Eli is a play action QB that is adept at reading defenses. That's his game. So what do the Giants do? Add more and more receivers and all but ignore the OL and RBs. Brilliant.
Eli will win if the Giants can run the ball. I will bet anyone here as much money as you want. I will fund money to my paypal account right now and bet anyone here that if the Giants rush for over 1800 yards in 2018 and Eli is the QB that the Giants win at least 8-9 games without even looking at the WRs or defense. Now, you could say the same thing about most QBs possibly, but find me a QB that will deliver like Eli can in the big spot. There's the rub.
Keep Eli. Fix the running game. Win.
Didn't see you comment right before me but you really hit my point. In an offense with Eli, the running game is what makes things go. Give him a good running game, open the PA opportunities and we'll be ok.
It's awfully convenient and easy to say Eli is in decline but take a look at the offense around him. The offense is worse, not Eli.
Give Eli a running game and everything improves. I guarantee it. Eli is a play action QB that is adept at reading defenses. That's his game. So what do the Giants do? Add more and more receivers and all but ignore the OL and RBs. Brilliant.
Eli will win if the Giants can run the ball. I will bet anyone here as much money as you want. I will fund money to my paypal account right now and bet anyone here that if the Giants rush for over 1800 yards in 2018 and Eli is the QB that the Giants win at least 8-9 games without even looking at the WRs or defense. Now, you could say the same thing about most QBs possibly, but find me a QB that will deliver like Eli can in the big spot. There's the rub.
Keep Eli. Fix the running game. Win.
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you glossed over the entire point. That Eli didn't have a running game in 2014-2016 and yet in 14-15 his stats were good. Go figure.
It's awfully convenient and easy to say Eli is in decline but take a look at the offense around him. The offense is worse, not Eli.
Give Eli a running game and everything improves. I guarantee it. Eli is a play action QB that is adept at reading defenses. That's his game. So what do the Giants do? Add more and more receivers and all but ignore the OL and RBs. Brilliant.
Eli will win if the Giants can run the ball. I will bet anyone here as much money as you want. I will fund money to my paypal account right now and bet anyone here that if the Giants rush for over 1800 yards in 2018 and Eli is the QB that the Giants win at least 8-9 games without even looking at the WRs or defense. Now, you could say the same thing about most QBs possibly, but find me a QB that will deliver like Eli can in the big spot. There's the rub.
Keep Eli. Fix the running game. Win.
Give ANY QB an 1800 yds running game and they will do well. Why not a young one, that you pay far less than 20 million a year?
That's not true. And even if some of it is true how many of those QBs would play like an animal in the biggest of games? Not that many.
Dave Brown and Kent Graham had a running game. How'd they do? How did Kerry Collins do with a running game? He was ok....but you telling me Eli wouldn't do better? I think that's nuts.
Eli would have this team in position to make postseason noise. Is it that foolish to take a shot with Eli AND A RUNNING GAME for one more postseason here?
Plus if you cut Eli you're eating cap room. Keep him, groom the young QB(s) and let Eli's contract expire on its own. NOTHING wrong with that. Nothing.
You're the one on the island, but I'm the clown.
I hear the GM position is open, maybe you should throw your name in the hat?
And can we not talk about the money for once? Who cares. The Giants can make it work.
If the Giants fix this team and bring in a QB that can lead them, wouldn't you want this veteran laden team to have Eli at the helm in January of next season? How is that a bad thing? The young QB isn't going anywhere and if he's THAT good no one will care if he sat for a year.
I don't see any negatives to keeping Eli with a young hot shot QB on the roster. Cutting Eli isn't that desirable at all and then it puts all this pressure on the kid to develop overnight. What's the rush?
You're the one on the island, but I'm the clown.
I hear the GM position is open, maybe you should throw your name in the hat?
Eli isn't perfect. He's got his flaws. But he's not much different than the guy that played in 2012. He's still durable. Can still spin it with the best of them. Still wants to win. What has changed since then? The Giants have fielded the worst running game in all of football. Eli can't control that.
1) he can't stay healthy
2) his arm is shot
3) you have a bona fide championship caliber qb behind him
4) he retires
That's it. These guys are too rare to voluntarily put yourself in the position of having to find another championship qb unless it is for one of these reasons. You want to pick a qb #1 to sit and learn for a year or two, great and prudent, but you don't let a championship qb go unless it is for one of these reasons.
it took the Steelers 20 years to replace Bradshaw during which they squandered some good teams with bad quarterbacking. The Dolphins haven't replaced Marino in 18 years and the Niners haven't replaced Steve Young in 18 years.
So think carefully before you decide to "move on" because the qb "isn't what he once was."
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nobody has agreed with you, and several have pointed out the flaws in your reasoning.
You're the one on the island, but I'm the clown.
I hear the GM position is open, maybe you should throw your name in the hat?
Just because homers on a fan site don't agree with me does not make me wrong. You are committing a fallacy in your reasoning(ad populum). You are cherry picking his best stats in the last five years to support your argument. His efficiency does not justify his salary in a league with a cap at the end of hs playing career. It would be wise to replace him with a younger player earning less that has the potential to improve. It is VERY reasonable to expect Eli to get worse.
Kevin Gilbride. Greg Cosell. John Mara. Bill Polian. Gil Brandt. Pat Kirwan. All guys who have been quoted in the past two weeks as saying Eli has the same ability, but the team around him stinks.
Homers on a website?
Eli isn't perfect. He's got his flaws. But he's not much different than the guy that played in 2012. He's still durable. Can still spin it with the best of them. Still wants to win. What has changed since then? The Giants have fielded the worst running game in all of football. Eli can't control that.
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you glossed over the entire point. That Eli didn't have a running game in 2014-2016 and yet in 14-15 his stats were good. Go figure.
It's awfully convenient and easy to say Eli is in decline but take a look at the offense around him. The offense is worse, not Eli.
Give Eli a running game and everything improves. I guarantee it. Eli is a play action QB that is adept at reading defenses. That's his game. So what do the Giants do? Add more and more receivers and all but ignore the OL and RBs. Brilliant.
Eli will win if the Giants can run the ball. I will bet anyone here as much money as you want. I will fund money to my paypal account right now and bet anyone here that if the Giants rush for over 1800 yards in 2018 and Eli is the QB that the Giants win at least 8-9 games without even looking at the WRs or defense. Now, you could say the same thing about most QBs possibly, but find me a QB that will deliver like Eli can in the big spot. There's the rub.
Keep Eli. Fix the running game. Win.
Give ANY QB an 1800 yds running game and they will do well. Why not a young one, that you pay far less than 20 million a year?
I disagree with any quarterback, especially a rookie. Very hard to come right in and play. Why not a young one? Because he has no experience in the NFL, and no experience with the NY media. There are more pros then cons to have Eli back. Best case? We're good again; you have a 2x champ going into the playoffs. Worst case? Eli proves he is declining rapidly and he is done. You then have your qb in waiting on the team...but you don't go into next year starting the rookie in my personal opinion. As i wrote before, no one knows how good or bad Eli's play is if/when he is placed back into a system that suits his style of play.
The worst case in your scenario? Rookie qb starts and does terribly, you then need to consider benching him which may ruin his confidence permanently...or he plays and continues to suck/get hit and his career goes the David Carr route.
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In comment 13740586 Britt in VA said:
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nobody has agreed with you, and several have pointed out the flaws in your reasoning.
You're the one on the island, but I'm the clown.
I hear the GM position is open, maybe you should throw your name in the hat?
Just because homers on a fan site don't agree with me does not make me wrong. You are committing a fallacy in your reasoning(ad populum). You are cherry picking his best stats in the last five years to support your argument. His efficiency does not justify his salary in a league with a cap at the end of hs playing career. It would be wise to replace him with a younger player earning less that has the potential to improve. It is VERY reasonable to expect Eli to get worse.
Kevin Gilbride. Greg Cosell. John Mara. Bill Polian. Gil Brandt. Pat Kirwan. All guys who have been quoted in the past two weeks as saying Eli has the same ability, but the team around him stinks.
Homers on a website?
You did not list the people who said Eli done. Do you read them or just dismiss them. Recently his peers(people playing against him) called ELi one the most overrated players in the NFL.
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In comment 13740611 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 13740586 Britt in VA said:
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nobody has agreed with you, and several have pointed out the flaws in your reasoning.
You're the one on the island, but I'm the clown.
I hear the GM position is open, maybe you should throw your name in the hat?
Just because homers on a fan site don't agree with me does not make me wrong. You are committing a fallacy in your reasoning(ad populum). You are cherry picking his best stats in the last five years to support your argument. His efficiency does not justify his salary in a league with a cap at the end of hs playing career. It would be wise to replace him with a younger player earning less that has the potential to improve. It is VERY reasonable to expect Eli to get worse.
Kevin Gilbride. Greg Cosell. John Mara. Bill Polian. Gil Brandt. Pat Kirwan. All guys who have been quoted in the past two weeks as saying Eli has the same ability, but the team around him stinks.
Homers on a website?
You did not list the people who said Eli done. Do you read them or just dismiss them. Recently his peers(people playing against him) called ELi one the most overrated players in the NFL.
Could you kindly point me to a few, as I have done here for you?
1. Eli Manning didn't even make the Top 100 Players in 2011.
2. Eli Manning is considered the most overrated QB in the NFL? To be overrated, you have to be valued to begin with.
Eli has been UNDERRATED by other players his entire career, see #1. Overrated. Thanks for the laugh.
I'll leave it at that.
Boomer - ( New Window )
He trashed them all. He's inaccurate and frequently throws high and dangerously and into triple coverage. The Giants will be drafting and spending money on WR's this coming year. Its risky with Eli.
Well said, this is in line with my feelings.
I believe Eli has had a decline in some aspects - and most of them have derived from the system he's been in the past two years and the OL woes.
I've seen a QB that often can't go through his progressions because of pressure, so on the rare occasion he has time, he sometimes rushes the throw. That's not a physical decline though.
What I don't get is people will say "Eli has declined rapidly in the past two years - just look at the stats compared to 2015!!" And they say it fully believing it.
But what changed from 2015? Something significant - they went from a more vertical offense with WCO elements to an offense where downfield chances are rarely taken. This not only brings more defenders into the area where the passes will be thrown, it also means that blitzes will most likely result in a dumpoff instead of a deep TD.
If people want to argue stats - just look at the change since McAdoo took over and scrapped the elements of TC's offense.
- They went from being a top 3 team in 20+ yard plays to being LAST
- They are scoring almost a TD less per game!
- The rushing attack has been in the bottom 5 the past two years!
- Last in the league in conversions of 3rd and 10 or more!
The OL has been crappy for awhile now. TC had to contend with it. The running game has been subpar for years. Eli has been the QB for years.
What changed? If you can't connect the dots and keep beating the drum that eli is done - then you are just looking for reasons to say it.
And then there is the fuckstick saying Eli injured his WR's.......
If you aren't necessarily sure what Eli has left, fine, you let the kid and Eli and Webb duke it out.
The only time a qb controversy rips a team apart is when the team was or is a disaster to begin with. If the team is good and winning no one gives a fuck if the young qb or vet qb sitting on the bench is cranky.
I just don't get it. We don't even have to have this debate now.
That being the case this team should be in full rebuild mode....
And one of the first moves, is to rid itself of a 22 M cap hit, which Eli represents.....
I think Eli still has something left.....just not with this team....he needs an OL and weapons, which we do not have....
If the next GM/HC think they can turn this around in one year, by making an OL for him, and adding a WR, and getting us to a SB, then you keep him.....but if you keep him, and build around him, and you are one year too late with him, you have wasted 20M.....
I think the safe bet is to release him.....go QB in the first round.....start to rebuild this OL with draft picks and that 20M.....
OV is another possible cut......the same production from a DE can be had a lower price....
JPP is next on the list, but survives 2018 because of his dead cap.....
The time is now to start making moves, to get this team back on track......and hopefully we hire a GM that has the balls to do this and make the right moves...
if Eli returns next season what will be different that we haven't seen from him, IMO if Eli comes back it will just set this team back one or more years.....
I'll say it again and again. GIVE ELI A RUNNING GAME! Trust me....I promise you if this team found a good to great running attack Eli would clean up. He wouldn't be perfect he's never been perfect but he will win. He might still throw two INTS that look terrible but he will also throw 3 TDs and win the games.
Give. Eli. A. Running Game. He never loses more than 8 games in a season if the running game is there. Never. And he usually wins 9 or more.
With the pass catchers this team has at its disposal the Giants need to focus all their resources on the ground game. Fix the OL and add a RB and this team will win. The D isn't that bad.
People complain about Eli not being a running QB. The bottom line is there have been very few what we have been calling "mobile" QBs winning SBs over the last decade. Eli is one of, if not the least sacked QBs over the last several eyars, and that is with one of the 5 worst OLs. There is a reason for that. He may not be mobile, but he is very adept at avoiding the sacks.
Give him any semblance of an offense and he is back to a top tier QB. In 2014 and 2015 he was one of the very best in the league, but victimized by a terrible defense. I'm beginning to think more and more that success had something to do with Coughlin being here and putting his influence on the WCO. The offense we have run in the 2 years since has been different in terms of personnel moves, personnel packages, gameplanning, in game adjustments, playcalling. Bring in an OC and HC who are not arrogant and stubborn.
I don't think they need to build around Eli at 37 and nobody is suggesting that, so I don't know where that criticism comes from. But, for another year or two, he can certainly lead this team back to the playoffs while bridging the gap to the next QB.
Hard to judge based on what he had for weapons this year....even last year with what we had for TE's, Cruz at WR, and Jennings was kept one year too long.......can you imagine what the offense would have looked like without OBj last year? You don't have to imagine, we saw it in the Minny game..... then there is the offensive scheme, the last two years.....and while it's hard to judge how good, Eli really is, it's also hard to judge how bad he is too......
If you still want to build around Eli, first you will have 10M less to work with each of the next two seasons....
Then you have to make a decision, on whether to draft a QB for the future(which will not help us next year), or do you use that draft pick to fill an immediate need on the roster? And what if next year Father Time catches up to Eli, and we held on to him too long?
I'm guessing Eli may have several seasons left.....I just don't think with the Giants......we have no idea what offensive scheme the new HC will bring, or that a miracle will happen....
I just feel we should start the rebuild without Eli, and the extra 20M over the next two years will help in that rebuild....I just don't see the Giants competing for a SB.....and if they don't, we have wasted another season....