I feel like I've asked this question in one way or another 20 times the past few weeks: why isn't BBI more actively advocating for (or at least considering) Jackson for our selection? The two primary concerns seem to be his passing ability and his durability. Well let's take a look at his college career and those two issues compared to some of the other guys in consideration.
Passing
Jackson: 619 comp., 1086 att., 57% comp., 9043 yds., 8.3 Y/A, 69-27
Darnold: 549 comp., 846 att., 64.9% comp., 7229 yds., 8.5 Y/A, 57-22
Rosen: 711 comp., 1169 att., 60.8% comp., 9301 yds., 8.0 Y/A, 59-26
Allen: 365 comp., 649 att., 56.2% comp., 5066 yds., 7.8 Y/A, 44-21
Where is the big spread here? The narrative has been that Darnold and Rosen are elite passing prospects while Jackson is a runner that will struggle with NFL defenses. I don't see that in the numbers. And I'd add that Jackson enjoyed similar success as a passer while fulfilling a role as a primary runner - which I would think speaks to his ability to function as a passer while taking a physical pounding. Speaking of his role as a runner...
Running
Jackson: 655 carries, 4132 yards, 6.3 Y/A, 50 TD
Barkley: 671 carries, 3843 yards, 5.7 Y/A, 43 TD
Jackson actually outperformed Barkley as a rusher over the course of their college careers - including outrushing him in their sophomore and junior years. Think about that...Barkley is being touted as the next great running back, and Jackson actually has better numbers as a rusher while functioning as his team's passer. I won't post the other QB's rushing stats because other than Allen's sophomore year (142 carries, 523 yards, 3.7 Y/A, 7 TDs) they aren't worth mentioning in comparison.
Durability
Games played/games missed to injury:
Jackson - 38/0
Darnold - 27/0
Rosen - 30/8
Allen - 27/2
If durability is the worry, Jackson played more games than the other guys and missed none while pulling double duty and actually outrushing the best running back prospect on the board. If passing ability is the issue, his passing production stands up to the other guys. The running ability is no contest.
So what am I missing here?
You obviously haven't watched him.
His offense makes everyone look good. He gets receivers running open all over the field. And at every one of his stops. The guy is a college offensive genius...
If we criticize QBs from the B12, the same skepticism has to be applied to Petrino trained offensive players...
So big buyer beware of LJax. Can he eventually make it? Absolutely. But he’s too much of a project, and you can’t reward projects the #2 pick in the draft...
myock had an interesting take on him a month ago. as get closer to draft day..these qbs will separate as to an idea where they are.
All I need to know is that you've read about how people will ask him what he thinks about playing WR?
I need to know more than that.
His offense makes everyone look good. He gets receivers running open all over the field. And at every one of his stops. The guy is a college offensive genius...
If we criticize QBs from the B12, the same skepticism has to be applied to Petrino trained offensive players...
So big buyer beware of LJax. Can he eventually make it? Absolutely. But he’s too much of a project, and you can’t reward projects the #2 pick in the draft...
Then fucking hire Bobby Petrino.
An offense that can't maximize this talent is a bad offense.
Brady - slow runner, but doesn't matter since he can move and slide within the pocket
Wilson - runs, but protects his body
Vick - sacrifices his body, runs too often
give me #2 or #3. not a big fan of RPO either, don't want to see the QB getting smacked around.
Very good post.
Like I said - his accuracy issues will be a big issue at the next level.
He is a runner
An exceptional runner
He does have a strong arm but he is not accurate
He is late and off target even when he completes a pass
Jackson reminds me of a young Vick
But Vick was a better thrower and faster
There is even speculation that some teams view him as a receiver
And not a QB
He is a runner
An exceptional runner
He does have a strong arm but he is not accurate
He is late and off target even when he completes a pass
Jackson reminds me of a young Vick
But Vick was a better thrower and faster
There is even speculation that some teams view him as a receiver
And not a QB
Michael Vick was absolutely not a better thrower.
How about some visuals?
My apologies that I couldn't find a gif of the 4th INT he threw in that game.
Not buying this... everyone gushed about Cam Newton (and not Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert) in 2011. Everyone gushed about Michael Vick and Jamracus Russell too. Same with RG3 (while no one was gushing about Cousins).
I like Jackson a lot and he may turn out to be the best QB in the draft but maybe the thought is simply that the 2018 NFL is a passing league and the other guys are more prototypical passers with a higher ceiling. Same holds true for Mayfield too.
People are getting too hung up on this number.
Lamar Jackson - 59.1% as a JR
FWIW, I've been critical of Jackson, and I want nothing to do with Allen either.
I don't think accuracy issues improve when players move up in class. Some mechanics can be improved upon, but I don't think a 57% college passer ever becomes efficient in the NFL.
Uh, Allen has a release like Marino. And he can make every throw imaginable. Jackson is not in that realm. Thus, the enormous intrigue with Allen...
If you look at the history of the league, if you’re going to win with Jackson, you’ll have to make him into something he might not 100 percent be-a Russel Wilson/Cam Newton/even Aaron Rodgers type who runs a lot lower percentage of the time. Maybe he is incomparable and he’ll blaze a new path but I just don’t see how you’d have a better chance with him then with a pocket passer with some mobility.
People are getting too hung up on this number.
College offenses were nowhere near as efficient in general in the 1970s as they are now. He also only threw 515 passes in three years in college, with his season high of 260 in his senior year. That's kind of a ridiculous comparison - it's not remotely apples to apples, and I suspect you know that.
Career 57% passer in college.
Why is Jackson's number a big deal again?
Marino threw 17 TD's and 23 picks as a senior, by the way.
Lamar Jackson - 59.1% as a JR
You're not comparing offenses and defenses as equals over 20 years apart are you? Come on arc.
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Joe Montana had like a sub-55% completion percentage in college.
People are getting too hung up on this number.
College offenses were nowhere near as efficient in general in the 1970s as they are now. He also only threw 515 passes in three years in college, with his season high of 260 in his senior year. That's kind of a ridiculous comparison - it's not remotely apples to apples, and I suspect you know that.
Okay, forget the 70's..
Wentz was at 62% as a Senior.. Jackson @ 59% as a JR.
People are making way too big a deal about this number.
Career 57% passer in college.
Why is Jackson's number a big deal again?
Marino threw 17 TD's and 23 picks as a senior, by the way.
Here's the good news: neither one of us jackwagons will be making the pick (or any picks) for the Giants. So we can debate this all night, and probably won't change each other's mind.
But we'll see what happens when each of these guys reaches the NFL. I'm perfectly comfortable going on record saying that I don't think Jackson will be an effective NFL QB, and I hope you're just as comfortable going on record saying that you think he will be. In a few years, we'll have a much better sense of who's right.
Unless, of course, the Giants draft him. Because my understanding is that Eli will be the starter for the next 3-5 years, so we might not get a chance to see Jackson for a while either way if that happens.
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Speaking of Dan Marino..
Career 57% passer in college.
Why is Jackson's number a big deal again?
Marino threw 17 TD's and 23 picks as a senior, by the way.
Here's the good news: neither one of us jackwagons will be making the pick (or any picks) for the Giants. So we can debate this all night, and probably won't change each other's mind.
But we'll see what happens when each of these guys reaches the NFL. I'm perfectly comfortable going on record saying that I don't think Jackson will be an effective NFL QB, and I hope you're just as comfortable going on record saying that you think he will be. In a few years, we'll have a much better sense of who's right.
Unless, of course, the Giants draft him. Because my understanding is that Eli will be the starter for the next 3-5 years, so we might not get a chance to see Jackson for a while either way if that happens.
I've been wrong a billion times - I'll be wrong a billion more. If I am wrong about Jackson, I'll have no problem admitting it.
I think he, in particular, needs above average coaching to thrive - but if he gets it, I think he can be a hell of a player.
I also feel confident that the Giants won't be drafting him - so, we'll be watching him in another uniform more than likely. Hopefully not a team I really dislike.. unless he sucks. Then I'd be fine with it.
Career 57% passer in college.
Why is Jackson's number a big deal again?
Marino threw 17 TD's and 23 picks as a senior, by the way.
Blame Marino’s senior year slide on cocaine. Nearly every one else did.
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If this kid were white this board would be gushing over him. People project every negative stereotype of black QBs on him: he isn’t smart , he wants to run not throw, he isn’t accurate, he is a project. I’d love for the Giants to pick him, especially in a trade down a few spots. But ownership doesn’t have the balls to have him be Eli’s successor.
Not buying this... everyone gushed about Cam Newton (and not Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert) in 2011. Everyone gushed about Michael Vick and Jamracus Russell too. Same with RG3 (while no one was gushing about Cousins).
I like Jackson a lot and he may turn out to be the best QB in the draft but maybe the thought is simply that the 2018 NFL is a passing league and the other guys are more prototypical passers with a higher ceiling. Same holds true for Mayfield too.
Whoa, wait.
Not many were gushing over Russell. I remember him being seen as a late 1st/early 2nd rounder at best because of all the questions about him (which proved correct). Only the Raiders were crazy enough to draft him at #1 - which is why IMO he'll never be as big a bust as Leaf.
From what I’ve seen from Jackson, when good teams blitz him from different directions, he’s looks lost. When teams rush only 3, he also looks lost.
As dynamic as he could look, I just haven’t seen the improvement as a passer that I would like. Always looks like if that first read isn’t there, he takes off.
If you look at the history of the league, if you’re going to win with Jackson, you’ll have to make him into something he might not 100 percent be-a Russel Wilson/Cam Newton/even Aaron Rodgers type who runs a lot lower percentage of the time. Maybe he is incomparable and he’ll blaze a new path but I just don’t see how you’d have a better chance with him then with a pocket passer with some mobility.
Cunningham.
Terps: Thank you for that link. IMO, the host knows his stuff. It's very, very interesting. The only question I have is were these plays cherry picked? Do you know being a big follower of college ball?
I question his ability to stay healthy at the NFL level with his style and build.
Good deep ball but not an accurate passer.
Doesn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the shed.
With a lot of colleges employing QBs like Jackson someone like him or better should be available every draft.
2015: lost three one score games to open the year to Auburn, Houston and Clemson
2016: hung 63 on FSU, Nearly beat Clemson.
All while having far inferior talent
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Won one bowl game in 3 years. Didn’t win a big game his entire career.
I question his ability to stay healthy at the NFL level with his style and build.
Good deep ball but not an accurate passer.
Doesn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the shed.
With a lot of colleges employing QBs like Jackson someone like him or better should be available every draft.
2015: lost three one score games to open the year to Auburn, Houston and Clemson
2016: hung 63 on FSU, Nearly beat Clemson.
All while having far inferior talent
2 decent wins in 3 years BFD
Those body types just dont hold up at QB in the NFL
Because Allen didn't play in a Bobby Petrino passer friendly offense that created easy completions for the QB.
Scheme means almost everything for CFB passing numbers
How many games did Bob Griffin miss due not injury in college? How many running quarterbacks have to be ground up in the NFL before we understand its not sustainable?
Eli Manning college completion percentage was 59%. That's not much higher than 57%.
Needs to be taught how to take a hit. A year with Eli can show him that.
To think we are getting another Manning clone with this pick would be silly. Teams that dont respect the run will lose chunks of yardage to this guy.
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And 57% completions in that offense is not good enough.
How many games did Bob Griffin miss due not injury in college? How many running quarterbacks have to be ground up in the NFL before we understand its not sustainable?
Eli Manning college completion percentage was 59%. That's not much higher than 57%.
And his NFL completion percentage is 59.8% (and it was 58.5% before the last four years in the WCO). Is that what you want to hold up as the standard for accuracy?
Also, Eli's completion pct in college was 60.8%; I'm not sure where you got your numbers.
Link - ( New Window )
He is a runner. He is also light and when you are a runner like he is, you will be extremely prone to getting hurt. He is also not accurate within the pocket. Why is it always about these topics when people become critical about a QB of color? Is he immune of being ridiculed?
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In comment 13772465 widmerseyebrow said:
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And 57% completions in that offense is not good enough.
How many games did Bob Griffin miss due not injury in college? How many running quarterbacks have to be ground up in the NFL before we understand its not sustainable?
Eli Manning college completion percentage was 59%. That's not much higher than 57%.
And his NFL completion percentage is 59.8% (and it was 58.5% before the last four years in the WCO). Is that what you want to hold up as the standard for accuracy?
Also, Eli's completion pct in college was 60.8%; I'm not sure where you got your numbers. Link - ( New Window )
Dunk: I hate making historical comparisons about Jackson because they do seem racially tinged to an uncomfortable degree. However 99% of Giant fans, I am sure, want the best quarterback available to the team.
I see RG3 in Jackson. Not Randall , who was a moose. RG3 was extremely talented when he came to the league. He wrecked his knee. He got beat up. He hurt his shoulder . That’s my concern with Jackson.
I have no idea about qbs, not looking. But the idea of trade down, get the guard or the de and a mobile QB in the mix.
This guy could have a few years w Webb and Manning to get ready. No idea though. As I said not looking this year yet
Its simply not true. He wants to pass the ball and will stay in the pocket to do so.
And if you want to talk about a QB that likes to pull the ball down and run, take a look at Josh Allen.
Jackson is a much, much better thrower than Tebow. Not even close.
Yes, the accuracy needs to be better. But again - people gush over Josh Rosen as a passer and yet, his completion% was very close to Jackson's.
Jackson is a much, much better thrower than Tebow. Not even close.
Yes, the accuracy needs to be better. But again - people gush over Josh Rosen as a passer and yet, his completion% was very close to Jackson's.
Wasn't comparing the throwing motions, just the results. And Tebow's completion percentage was really good in college.
Completion percentage is not the perfect stat. Rosen is a far more accurate passer than Jackson because Rosen can throw into tight spots. I haven't seen an instance where Jackson has done that and the offense he runs is designed to avoid those kinds of throws. He won't have those big windows in the nfl.