This kid out of Penn State is unbelievable. He's a generational talent I believe that we can't pass on him. To me the quarterbacks in this draft class are average nothing that blows me away. Saquon Barkley though on the other hand is a kid that can make game changing plays. He's a playmaker period. Why do we need to draft a QB when we drafted Davis Webb last year. Davis Webb is a waste of a draft pick to me, if we draft another QB in the 1st round this year. I say we give Eli two more years, while Davis Webb can learn from Eli and get to know the playbook and then he can be our QB for the future. While in the meantime Gettlemen rebuilds our team and makes us a playoff team with Barkley and hopefully other playmakers as well, and we will then be right back in business.
Barkley? I'm down but I'm tempted to go defense.
eeeeee-yup
I couldn’t agree more. I fear that if we take Barkley we will waste his prime years trying to find a QB. The Giants will likely be a 7-9 to 8-8 team that would have to trade a huge bounty to move up to get a QB. This is the best RB class in years so the Giants can get a good one in the 2nd or 3rd round. Gallman was a very pleasant surprise for me this year. He should be given a chance to split carries next season or at least be the 3rd down back.
He wasn't even prepped to play this year. Think about that for a minute before thinking there are long term plans for him to be the starter.
Like buying a convertible Corvette as your only car in Alaska.
Yes, you own a great car but it's not very functional is it?
Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry
There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad
In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact
He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking
Like buying a convertible Corvette as your only car in Alaska.
Yes, you own a great car but it's not very functional is it?
Convertible or hard top corvette? I like your analogy Larry ... and agree with it. ; )
He wasn't even prepped to play this year. Think about that for a minute before thinking there are long term plans for him to be the starter.
Exactly. Glad to see there are posters who realize what Webb is and his capabilities. For those touting his ability, go watch his 2016 full length game videos. You will walk away surprised he was even a starting qb in college.
I agree with poster that there are enough running backs to get a quality one in rounds 2-4. Barkley would be a good pick if the qb of the future was already on the roster. He's not. Take advantage of drafting second with two high end qb prospects on the board.
Also, for those of you saying "well, we can just get a qb when Eli retires," how simple is that task? If it was that simple, wouldn't every team just do it and never have a qb issue? Like every single team doesn't know that Fromm from GA will be a top 2020 prospect and we can just sneak in and take him.
Great with great blocking
Herschel Walker was a damn good player with or without blocking. Not really sure how he's the poster boy of needing decent blocking to be good.
I think fans sometimes forget that, maybe being jaded by how bad the Giant's mid to late round picks have been by the previous regime...but theres a new sherrif in town and rounds 2,3 and even later are equally important for the long haul rebuild.
The Giants should not be, (I dont think they are), looking at the #2 overall pick as a "MUST GET THIS POSITION" (incl. QB).
That way we take a page out of the patriots book when they had Brady garoppolo and brissett. Worst case the extra QBs can be flipped for picks or players.
Let the two develop behind Eli and if Eli decides that he wants to retire after this year or if he doesn't want to be on the team with another QB, then we try to trade him.
Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry
There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad
In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact.
He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking
Yup.
Exactly
Just look at the NFC, I don't have time to look at both conferences. Cousins and Dak, 4th rounders. Not gonna carry a team alone, but competent NFL QBs. Lions and Bears took QBs at 1 and 2, but the Vikings look pretty dam good with an untreated journeyman and we all know the story with Rodgers.
If the Giants are not 100% these QBs are bona fide franchise QB status AND they believe Barkley would be a big time difference maker, then they absolutely should draft him.
Hershel was a great player however he was most successful behind a great line
I was comparing their physical attributes and running styles
My question still remains why does such a great prospect such as Barkley disappear in games ?
Look at the Rutgers, OSU , and Indiana games
Curtis Enis, RB, PSU, No. 5 overall pick in 1998
Ki-Jana Carter, RB, PSU, No. 1 overall pick in 1995
Blair Thomas, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1990
D.J. Dozier, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1987
Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry
There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad
In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact
He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking
Barkley is not a "generational talent". He's another beneficiary of Happy Valley hype, some poor team is going to buy the hype and end up with Duke Johnson. No thank you.
As a PSU fan I’ve watched nearly every one of his carries/games. He had poor games mostly due to defenses completely selling out to stop him. Nearly all of Penn State runs since two years ago (hackenberg departure, Joe Moorehead arrival) are option or zone read runs where the QB (McSorley) makes the decision on whether to hand off or not. So many times this year defenses had been instructed to sell out on Barkley, that is, at the threat of any option handoff, just tackle/attack Barkley. They gave no respect to McSorley keeping it and running (this was a risk/reward strategy and often Penn state would punish those that did this, just look at the total points they scored in Barkley’s down games, it’s still high).
Anyway, due to this Barkley would have many very negative yardage runs which hurt is YPC or overall yards. McSorley never really did master when to hand off and when to run resulting in easily negative plays.
Anyway, I can assure you that Barkley is worthy of the praise he gets. Just watch some his games and you’ll see. I actually believe he’ll look even better in the pros in part of a pro style offense where he gets a running lead - his one year in a pro style offense he looked awesome as well and without all the negative runs where he got hit flat footed at the mesh point.
And btw, even as a huge Barkley fan, I’m completely in the camp of drafting a QB. Giants need to draft a QB and I’m confident they will.
Curtis Enis, RB, PSU, No. 5 overall pick in 1998
Ki-Jana Carter, RB, PSU, No. 1 overall pick in 1995
Blair Thomas, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1990
D.J. Dozier, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1987
It would really silly for any GM to not take a player based on any prior draft “bust” who didn’t even share the same coaching staff. May as well draft based on superstition.
Matt Leinart was a bust, should we avoid Darnold?
In that scenario, we have a house of cards built entirely around Davis Webb.
Maybe he is great. Maybe he is terrible. Most likely he is somewhere in the middle. Maybe good, maybe bad. And guess what? You have exactly 1 season to decide as his contract is up after 4 seasons, 3 of which you sat him on the bench.
You are a playoff/borderline team as you said, in need of a QB so you are stuck in the late teens/early 20s. Tough to get a QB there who is a sure thing.
So you may be stuck thinking about committing huge money to Webb when you are uncertain or having to draft a mid-to-late round QB or sign whatever guy is available on the free agent market (the Cousins of 2020) to crazy deal.
This is what Gettleman called QB hell.
One thing that scares me the most, is a running back is one clean hit away from never playing again. That's not as true with quarterbacks. The quarterback is the more important position, and there's more and more rules in place to protect the quarterback. Not as much for the running back.
Paul Schwartz with a good point in the RB position in the draft:
Ronald Jones II is an absolute monster and his decision to turn pro adds more star power to perhaps the best running back class in 20-plus years:
Jones
Derrius Guice
Bryce Love
Nick Chubb
Sony Michel
Josh Adams
Royce Freeman
Akrum Wadley
Myles Gaskin
Kerryon Johnson
Rashad Penny
Very good value in later rounds for RB's.
Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry
There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad
In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact
He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking
Strange cherry picking post. You could make similar claims for every single RB in creation. No one has wonderful games every game. There are a lot of factors. Cherry pick all you want but Barkley is a special talent. Whether he's the right pick for the Giants right now is another issue.
Barkley was big ten offensive player of the year each of the last two years. He’s a fantastic receiver, has tremendous agility, and a fantastic runner.
Gettleman made the ‘QB hell’ comment but he also talked about the importance of running the ball. Barkley would be a massive upgrade at the RB position.
There is talent in other places, you just have to find it, groom it, and build.
Everyone expects a the new guy through the door to be the answer, as its a lock.
If it was that easy anyone could be a GM. Recall how so many were divided over Luck and Payton Manning. Whoever we pick hope he is a solid productive player.
However, if you look at other great running backs despite being the focal point of an offense they were able to get their yards
For example ZekeElliot had only one poor game in his senior season (33) yards against a tough Michigan State Defense
The rest of the games he was above (106)yards
Barkley had (7) games his senior season that were average at best
One thing that scares me the most, is a running back is one clean hit away from never playing again. That's not as true with quarterbacks. The quarterback is the more important position, and there's more and more rules in place to protect the quarterback. Not as much for the running back.
Paul Schwartz with a good point in the RB position in the draft:
Ronald Jones II is an absolute monster and his decision to turn pro adds more star power to perhaps the best running back class in 20-plus years:
Jones
Derrius Guice
Bryce Love
Nick Chubb
Sony Michel
Josh Adams
Royce Freeman
Akrum Wadley
Myles Gaskin
Kerryon Johnson
Rashad Penny
Very good value in later rounds for RB's.
Jones II had insane blocking. Watch his highlights. The Giants will be rebuilding their OL, so at best he wouldn't have blocking like that for a couple of years. Also, you and I both know his upright running style won't last long in the NFL as a running back. He can get away with it on returns but as an every down back he'll end up injured. Like you said, one clean hit and he's gone. Just sayin'.
However, if you look at other great running backs despite being the focal point of an offense they were able to get their yards
For example ZekeElliot had only one poor game in his senior season (33) yards against a tough Michigan State Defense
The rest of the games he was above (106)yards
Barkley had (7) games his senior season that were average at best
Zeke was also playing behind an excellent offensive line, getting 30 carries a game, and had a QB (Barrett or Miller) who was infinitely better at the running the option/zone read runs (no defense could sell out against zeke or the QB runs would destroy them)
Anyway, pretty sure all of penn states games the last few years are on YouTube and have 30 minute versions, just go check out a few of them and you can judge :)
Curtis Enis, RB, PSU, No. 5 overall pick in 1998
Ki-Jana Carter, RB, PSU, No. 1 overall pick in 1995
Blair Thomas, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1990
D.J. Dozier, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1987
that is truly painful, point well taken
I know the speculation about the different options at draft time are fun.
But Giants passing on a quarterback whom they believe is their future would be an all time blunder. K
Er, doubt they would use
However, if you look at other great running backs despite being the focal point of an offense they were able to get their yards
For example ZekeElliot had only one poor game in his senior season (33) yards against a tough Michigan State Defense
The rest of the games he was above (106)yards
Barkley had (7) games his senior season that were average at best
Elliott played behind a much better o-line than Barkley.
I think fans sometimes forget that, maybe being jaded by how bad the Giant's mid to late round picks have been by the previous regime...but theres a new sherrif in town and rounds 2,3 and even later are equally important for the long haul rebuild.
The Giants should not be, (I dont think they are), looking at the #2 overall pick as a "MUST GET THIS POSITION" (incl. QB).
Amen. Only the Giants staff can make that desision whether these QBs are worthy of the #2. Just because you are having a cook out, doesn’t mean you need to buy rancid beef patties for burgers when you can get other foods. People need to be open minded about every position. Take best player available if these QBs aren’t worth it.
p.s. Mel Kiper still has Barkley rated number 1 on his board with comment:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. *Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State
Previous rank: 1
Barkley is a lights-out athlete with tremendous balance, a great lower body and quick feet. He had 1,728 yards from scrimmage and 19 total touchdowns in the regular season, and he rushed for 1,496 yards and 18 touchdowns last season and 1,076 yards as a freshman. Barkley (5-foot-11, 230 pounds) also will help in the passing game. He had 47 catches this season after having 48 in his first two seasons at Penn State combined. I think he'll run under a 4.4 40-yard dash and test well at the combine. Barkley could be a top-five pick in 2018, and he's going to get an elite grade from me
When you consider Barkley's OL consists of the following players this season, does your opinion of him change?
LT-Will Fries RS-Freshman 4*
LG-Steve Gonzales RS-Soph 4*
OC-Connor McGovern Soph. 4*
RG-Brendan Mahon RS-Senior 4*
RT-Chaz Wright RS-Junior. 4*
Three guys from NJ, all 4* recruits coming out of high school. Barkley's ability is quite good with an inexperienced OL...whereas other backs in the Draft have many more upperclassmen...then again Penn State's opponents weren't that great (sic).
Barkley cannot be compared to other RBs in this class that have FAR greater talent on their OLs. Running, catching and blocking...the guy is an immediate impact player AND he is a Jr., so his legs are going to have one less season of wear & tear. Hell, we don't even know how good Webb is or isn't...and we've seen how good the USC, UCLA and OK products did in big games over New Year's. JS...
I think QB hell is much more likely drafting a QB that isn't a franchise player.