NFT: The EMP Threat..

real EMP danger is natural (Carrington Event) from the sun, not man made, from weapons.

Another Carrington Event is inevitable, and could easily destroy the entire electrical grid for years. Chaos and a complete breakdown of society would result.

Solar Storm of 2012 (Carrington Event) - ( New Window )

EMPs it would take more than one based on common yields you find in most ICMB over the united states to completing knock off the power grid. However, even a partial knock out of the grid especially over winter would kill millions of Americans

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However, even a partial knock out of the grid especially over winter would kill millions of Americans

Millions of people aren't going to die from the cold.

Damage would be catastrophic for systems and life would be disrupted, but millions of people don't die because power is out.

They die from war or disease.

In comment 13776275 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Quote: However, even a partial knock out of the grid especially over winter would kill millions of Americans Millions of people aren't going to die from the cold. Damage would be catastrophic for systems and life would be disrupted, but millions of people don't die because power is out. They die from war or disease.

It has nothing to do with the cold its about systems during the winter months forging for food will be much harder cars wont work so you force to travel by foot and with extreme weather much harder and I dont know about you but the people I see walking down the street are not prepared to survive those types of conditions.

In comment 13776266 AcidTest said:

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real EMP danger is natural (Carrington Event) from the sun, not man made, from weapons. Another Carrington Event is inevitable, and could easily destroy the entire electrical grid for years. Chaos and a complete breakdown of society would result. Solar Storm of 2012 (Carrington Event) - ( New Window )

I agree the one that almost hit in 2012 I believe we missed by only a week and of course they just dont hit a country but an entire hemisphere and can last for hours

looting, killing people for their food/supplies, lack of medications, etc.

In comment 13776285 jtfuoco said:

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In comment 13776275 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Quote: However, even a partial knock out of the grid especially over winter would kill millions of Americans Millions of people aren't going to die from the cold. Damage would be catastrophic for systems and life would be disrupted, but millions of people don't die because power is out. They die from war or disease. It has nothing to do with the cold its about systems during the winter months forging for food will be much harder cars wont work so you force to travel by foot and with extreme weather much harder and I dont know about you but the people I see walking down the street are not prepared to survive those types of conditions.

Cars won't work? Maybe the ones running when the explosion happened.
This is the USA. One freakin bomb isn't going to send us to the edge of oblivion.
Look a Puerto Rico. Life has been miserable for 3 months, but mass deaths have not occured. Couldn't be any worse than what happened to PR. - total infrastructure failure. 95% loss of electrical distribution. Worst possible situation - all supplies need to come by ship into a small port or two. Airlift is partially viable. Mainland USA would be much easier to repair.

cars absolutely won't work. Nor will anything with any kind of circuitry as the gamma rays will render them inoperative. An old jalopy might work but modern cars which use electronic fuel and starter control units will be useless. They did an experiment about this on Mythbusters (I think) and the running car stopped in its tracks and another wouldn't start.

In comment 13776301 DC Gmen Fan said:

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looting, killing people for their food/supplies, lack of medications, etc.

I never heard of these books are they entertaining (tell a story) or are they like instructional based on what to look for and how to survive? Do you recommend them

but are very easy reads and entertaining. The One Second After author spoke in front of congress about the threat I believe.

I absolutely recommend them.

follows a small NC town during the collapse and attempts to rebuild order and civilization, and the attempts of the gov't to try and stabilize and control everyone.


Going Home initially follows a guy who is away on business when the strike happens and his struggle to get home to his family.

Subsequent books in the series catalog the struggle between the DHS and the American citizens.

thanks I will check them out. I have always found the topic interesting because how devastating it could be and it can occur naturally less intense but lasting a much longer in duration which most scientist believe will result in the same damage and a Nuclear EMP but even more widespread. What is shocking is that people have no idea how bad it will get.

strong enough EMP will definitely destroy the electrical systems in modern cars. But even older cars won't work, at least not for long, because electricity is needed to pump gas.

The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies.

Chaos would reign. We are totally dependent on our technology. A Carrington Event could literally send us back to what society was like before electricity.

Would a vehicle shielded in a garage be spared?

Also, would public water work? Perhaps water would come out of tap but not safe to drink?

the only protection for electronics would be provided by a Faraday Cage, which essentially insulates from the rays and/or reflects them away. As for water, if the pumps are electric, they will not work.

would they reach out friendship, or see it as an opportunity to take advantage and make war.

in the name of "assistance". But here to stay.

In comment 13776326 AcidTest said:

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strong enough EMP will definitely destroy the electrical systems in modern cars. But even older cars won't work, at least not for long, because electricity is needed to pump gas. The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies. Chaos would reign. We are totally dependent on our technology. A Carrington Event could literally send us back to what society was like before electricity.

Silly. Most teenagers know how to siphon with a hose.

People are dumb, but in general are good and take care of one another- it's part of who we are as a species- it's one of our most effective survival strategies.

would take over the world

In comment 13776437 Cam in MO said:

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In comment 13776326 AcidTest said: Quote: strong enough EMP will definitely destroy the electrical systems in modern cars. But even older cars won't work, at least not for long, because electricity is needed to pump gas. The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies. Chaos would reign. We are totally dependent on our technology. A Carrington Event could literally send us back to what society was like before electricity. Silly. Most teenagers know how to siphon with a hose. People are dumb, but in general are good and take care of one another- it's part of who we are as a species- it's one of our most effective survival strategies.

Looting and crime would occur. See the recent hurricanes aftermath.

would be the biggest hurdle. In a mass event though, people band together. The Puerto Rico example is a good one.

Part of the Doomsday Effect is controlling the hysterics. Just like in this thread when a poster assumes millions will die because the grid goes down.

I just think it is extremely unrealistic to think that society would completely break down. Let's give ourselves a little credit. In even the most archaic times, stealing and murder were never "ok" anywhere- excepting for religious purposes (human sacrifice- witch overall was extremely limited and usually reserved for enemies of the state) and war.

is that on a large scale, it's one tribe competing against another.

As the population has grown and communication has shrunk the world, our "tribe" now consists of 350+ million. Sure on a smaller scale within the country there may be less cooperation and more crime between races and possibly even cities or states (although the latter is a bit more difficult to imagine- most folks define themselves as American well before New Yorker) but overall- folks will want to keep their American tribe safe and fed.

competing with another.

not going to criticize people for being optimistic and having faith in humanity. I will simply say that you have much more of that than I do, especially if the lights go out for an extended period of time.

In comment 13776473 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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would be the biggest hurdle. In a mass event though, people band together. The Puerto Rico example is a good one. Part of the Doomsday Effect is controlling the hysterics. Just like in this thread when a poster assumes millions will die because the grid goes down.

How do you combat hysteria when you have no way to communicate to anybody outside of your own neighborhood. Puerto Rico is a bad example you have a population of 3.5 million people without just power but isolated on one island receiving support and assistance from America. Now lets compare that with a population 250+ million who knows how many square miles not counting Canada and Mexico that will likely feel the result as well.

then you will understand how shit breaks down.

First hand what Americans are like during catastrophe at the Superdome during hurricane Katrina and that was just one city make that nation wide and see what happens.

you said millions of Americans would die.

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I saw jtfuoco : 3:15 pm : link : reply First hand what Americans are like during catastrophe at the Superdome during hurricane Katrina and that was just one city make that nation wide and see what happens.

Even in the shitshow in New Orleans, people in the Superdome didn't die.

And if you went to Mississippi and Alabama in the aftermath of Katrina, you'd have seen communities pull together - instead, you choose one part of New Orleans, and it doesn't even support the view that millions would die.

In comment 13776568 jtfuoco said:

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First hand what Americans are like during catastrophe at the Superdome during hurricane Katrina and that was just one city make that nation wide and see what happens.

Agreed.

and Puerto Rico were local, not national disasters. Because of that, help could come from those areas of the country that were unaffected.

But an EMP would be a national disaster, including a wrecked power grid that might not be repaired for a year or more. Nothing is comparable. There is no precedent.

when supplies and food run short, humans will likely revert to survival instincts and that is to get food at any price esp for their family.

Now also, consider you are a prepper. You are now a target since you have the food and supplies. And what if the government then mandated that those who prepped now must share with everyone else?

coupled with the loss of transportation would devastate many parts of the country. Not having food has little to do with whether you think people are innately good or bad.

In comment 13776531 AcidTest said:

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not going to criticize people for being optimistic and having faith in humanity. I will simply say that you have much more of that than I do, especially if the lights go out for an extended period of time.

Fair enough. I will point out that other than faction, the only thing we have to go by is history- recent natural disasters. They paint a much more optimistic outcome than does fiction.

I try to look at things as logically and open minded as possible. In my humble opinion this is what happens;

1.The cities will be utter chaos, food will run out and water will be difficult to access. Murder and rape will be rampant

2.Police will ban together and take from people that have resources, remember, the police are allowed to have Ar-15's, at least in my state we're not able to have them. Think the Second Amendment is important?

3. Armed gangs from the cities will make it to the burbs, they will try and steal from people they believe have food and supplies. Rape/murder/chaos will be rampant. The people who are armed will ban together and fight off many of the attacks, they will win some and they will lose some

4..Some people will make it to Fema camps for food and water. Fema camps are under Government control, disease would break out, millions more would be lost. People go to Fema camps to die

5.Some from the burbs will be able to grow their own food, use hand pumps from existing wells to get water. If they're smart enough develop stock piles of food and ammunition. Burn wood for heat

Most people today grow impatient if they have to wait a couple of weeks for their I-Phones. They can't handle it

Be smart, be vigilant..Store up on a year or 2 worth of dehydrated/freeze dried foods. Stock up on ammo

Sounds outlandish, however, it's realistic. It will be utter chaos with different groups merging together to fight for resources. In general, it will be a fight for survival on many different fronts

In comment 13776706 I love liverwurst said:

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I try to look at things as logically and open minded as possible. In my humble opinion this is what happens; 5.Some from the burbs will be able to grow their own food, use hand pumps from existing wells to get water. If they're smart enough develop stock piles of food and ammunition. Burn wood for heat

They will also become targets for the marauding gangs.

In comment 13776790 DC Gmen Fan said:

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In comment 13776706 I love liverwurst said: Quote: I try to look at things as logically and open minded as possible. In my humble opinion this is what happens; 5.Some from the burbs will be able to grow their own food, use hand pumps from existing wells to get water. If they're smart enough develop stock piles of food and ammunition. Burn wood for heat They will also become targets for the marauding gangs.

That's why it would make sense to have lots of high powered guns with ammo on hand

and not traveling...

Which would include Solar Activity (EMP) are:

Daily: Youtube: Suspicious Observers Channel

Website: SuspiciousObservers.org

Apps (Google and Apple) for SpaceWeather: SpaceWeatherNews.com

In comment 13776301 DC Gmen Fan said:

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looting, killing people for their food/supplies, lack of medications, etc.

Another reason why I cherish my "right to bear arms."

In comment 13776326 AcidTest said:

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strong enough EMP will definitely destroy the electrical systems in modern cars. But even older cars won't work, at least not for long, because electricity is needed to pump gas. The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies. Chaos would reign. We are totally dependent on our technology. A Carrington Event could literally send us back to what society was like before electricity.

"The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies."

That is a lie. If you believe that, you will amongst the first to starve, then die. Please don't regurgitate that gov't puke.

In comment 13776473 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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would be the biggest hurdle. In a mass event though, people band together. The Puerto Rico example is a good one. Part of the Doomsday Effect is controlling the hysterics. Just like in this thread when a poster assumes millions will die because the grid goes down.

Agree

What can we do with the grid, cars, etc. to prevent the damage when the EMP happens?

assumption in these scenarios that is based on the fictional works. Basically, that society as we know it will dissolve and anarchy will reign.

There's always comments that murder and rape will become rampant, but there really isn't any logic bearing that out. A regular person doesn't become a killer and rapist just because stresses are placed on him. As a people, we are thinkers and would band together to help out as much as possible.

That's not to say everyone is going to be benevolent, but just because daily life is disrupted doesn't mean people just start maiming, killing and fucking everyone.

Minus the zombies, but it is about the behavior of people when supplies and law & orders are lacking.

I grabbed the audio book last night and listen to the first few chapters on my drive in so its great thanks for the recommendation.

In comment 13777653 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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assumption in these scenarios that is based on the fictional works. Basically, that society as we know it will dissolve and anarchy will reign. There's always comments that murder and rape will become rampant, but there really isn't any logic bearing that out. A regular person doesn't become a killer and rapist just because stresses are placed on him. As a people, we are thinkers and would band together to help out as much as possible. That's not to say everyone is going to be benevolent, but just because daily life is disrupted doesn't mean people just start maiming, killing and fucking everyone.

What do you think happened with Hurricane Katrina? New Orleans is a prime example to refute what you just said

maiming, murdering and raping people all over New Orleans?? Huh?

Also, why does everyone fixate on New Orleans when discussing Katrina? The entire Gulf Coast was affected and communities in alabama and Mississippi pulled together to care for one another and rebuild.

In comment 13777925 spike said:

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Minus the zombies, but it is about the behavior of people when supplies and law & orders are lacking.

Like so many here have stated before our entire society is based on supplies being moved long distances by line haul truck. Once that is cut off many locations will just not be livable anymore in the numbers of people that exist there today.

Look at Florida you have a huge population that is almost entirely dependent on goods being shipped in. Throw in a un naturally huge elderly population that wont have access to medicine the die off will start quickly and with bodies stacking up then the diseases will come compiling the issue. I am not saying Americans naturally want to kill or rape my point was a EMP event will cost millions of Americans life's it wont happen overnight but it will happen as a result. Think of it like this it has taken decades to establish the flow of logistics and life support to maintain multi million populations in small condense areas like you find in our Major cities now flip off access to that life support overnight it wont be just a disturbance but a disaster that has never been witness before.

Now lets look at a region the entire southwest is fed water from only a few sources located hundreds of miles away but without the grid the water stops you have a population of several million living in an area that can naturally only support a few thousand with the resources on hand. the average person can only go 3 days without water imagine how desperate that situation will be after just a week. These are just a few examples you will find these types of issues in almost every part of America you go to.
We talk about past natural disasters about people coming together and yes it has happen but think about this in those events most of us have been sitting and watching the events unfold in our living room and donating money food and clothing however during a EMP event you will never know what is happening you may not even know its an attack since you wont hear official news for weeks maybe months and possibly even a year later in some areas.

In comment 13777949 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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maiming, murdering and raping people all over New Orleans?? Huh? Also, why does everyone fixate on New Orleans when discussing Katrina? The entire Gulf Coast was affected and communities in alabama and Mississippi pulled together to care for one another and rebuild.

Not sure what else I can do but supply you with somewhat of a logic/fact based argument. All you need to do is "Bing it" You can see for yourself

Keep in mind, these people were getting supplies and medicine in short order and they knew it. Like the poster above mentioned, chances are no one is going to know what the heck is going on and won't for a long amount of time. Just imagine when 3 days goes by with no water/food, communication or not knowing when, if ever it's on it's way?

It will be a lawless living hell and yes, people will turn on each other