Ian Rapoport tweet on Giants/Wilks

In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said:

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Dealing with OBJ's tantrums and attitude and Eli's cry baby and SELFISH attitude of not allowing the team to see what they have with a young QB (Webb) and the lockeroom mess starting with Eli Apple.

I really hate this place @ times.

He's not the Owners brother. He is an Owner too. That's got to be a really tough sell to a coach who has options and wants some control of the roster.

In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said:

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Dealing with OBJ's tantrums and attitude and Eli's cry baby and SELFISH attitude of not allowing the team to see what they have with a young QB (Webb) and the lockeroom mess starting with Eli Apple.

Not buying. Typical "woe is me" Giant fan bullcrap. The Giants will have no trouble getting one of the top candidates.

Beckham is a generational talent.

Eli is an established player in his twilight years.

Apple will get it together or be gone.

They have the #2 pick, and an amount of talent higher than a typical team picking that high.

Stop it. You are being foolish.

Of course can't be known for sure. But what do you think? If you were the hot HC prospect who has helped develop Brady, Garoppolo etc. would you settle for someone telling you, sorry you can't have your guy, now go see what you can do with Webb? He comes from an environment where the HC makes decisions and has won 5 SBs doing so. He would be foolish not to demand having that say in that particular decision since he will own the consequences.

In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said:

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Dealing with OBJ's tantrums and attitude and Eli's cry baby and SELFISH attitude of not allowing the team to see what they have with a young QB (Webb) and the lockeroom mess starting with Eli Apple.

Yes nobody would want to deal with a talented WR who got into a fight once during a game. Why can’t he be a model citizen like Antonio Brown.

that feels he can't deal with Beckham's personality or Apple's immaturity then you don't want him. He isn't a leader.

In comment 13778006 UberAlias said:

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Of course can't be known for sure. But what do you think? If you were the hot HC prospect who has helped develop Brady, Garoppolo etc. would you settle for someone telling you, sorry you can't have your guy, now go see what you can do with Webb? He comes from an environment where the HC makes decisions and has won 5 SBs doing so. He would be foolish not to demand having that say in that particular decision since he will own the consequences.

I can't see any coaching candidate not having some say in what the QB picture going forward would be. The work in concert with the GM. In fact, I'm sure that conversation happened at the meeting and they are aware the Giants have the #2 pick in the draft allowing the Giants to select a highly rated QB prospect.

In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said:

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Dealing with OBJ's tantrums and attitude and Eli's cry baby and SELFISH attitude of not allowing the team to see what they have with a young QB (Webb) and the lockeroom mess starting with Eli Apple.

I think if there are dissuading factors, maybe it has to do more with the pressure cooker of the NYC media, the crappy winter weather, higher taxes relative to other states, and some of the downsides of the co-ownership and org structure

You mischaracterize both OBJ and Manning there - OBJ is by all accounts a top notch teammate and Manning didn't prevent the team from playing Webb - in fact, he gave them an opening to have Webb start a game, rather than arbitrarily come in at the half.

Beckham, Collins, Engram, Jenkins, and Harrison are core players who can be or already are among the best at their positions. The new HC also has the option to choose his franchise QB with the 2nd overall pick plus has the 2nd pick in round 2 which is very valuable. The Giants organization is well respected and they are very patient with their head coaches. This is a very attractive destination.

QBs is the draft pick. But a coach such as McDaniels with as many options as he has, especially coming from the Parcells/Belichick tree where coach having ability to "do the shopping" is seen as part of the equation, he's probably going to want some very strong assurances on this one.

I'm only speculating on this one, but I'm not the first to bring it up and there are rumblings out there that this has/is an issue for getting McDaniels in NYG. Don't know if true, but very plausible.

the idiocy is huge with some people:

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Eli's cry baby and SELFISH attitude of not allowing the team to see what they have with a young QB (Webb) and the lockeroom mess starting with Eli Apple

Eli was selfish? Was it his selfishness that caused the HC to not give Webb any reps in practice, thus making it possible for him to get some snaps?

Wow.

First place, none of us know which coach is the best person for the Giants. We all have opinions, but really none of them is a slam-dunk.

In terms of appeal for a job, most teams with horrible records who fire their head coach are relatively unappealing; does Indy or Chicago seem like a great opportunity right now?. My take is that being in New York with very stable ownership and a proven GM is all very attractive, that we probably have more talent on the roster than most 3-13 teams and a not-horrible salary cap position with an established starting QB and the second pick in the draft. I do believe there have been culture issues but that is the whole point of bringing in the new people.For Beckham, my guess is that 32 of 32 teams would like him on their team after considering any culture issues he presents.

The league is migrating in that direction, maybe not so much in that the coach has full personnel decision-making, but a much greater say than in the past. They should have significant input, they have to put together game plans to fit that personnel.

So the question is how much delegation will DG be willing to give up? Any HC candidate should ask that question, and the answer may be a turn-off to some of the more highly sought candidates.

In comment 13777917 Greg from LI said:

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It will cost $27 million just to get him out of his Alabama contract before he receives so much as a nickel from the Giants, and he'll demand complete control.

Why does everyone keep saying this? I haven't found a single thing saying that to be true.

The only things I've found are what Bama would pay Saban if they fired him without cause, $22 mil, and his coaches would owe 20% of their salary if they leave, although he waives that if they leave for a higher position.

Saban's contract is structured in such a way by his agent (Sexton) they have all their bases covered and I can't imagine in the slightest they'd have such a penalty written in if he wanted to leave. Eg, his coaching "salary" is under a half mil per year with the rest being paid for him being him. He also gets a $400k bonus every year just for not leaving among a huge perc package. He lives mortgage free in a home paid for by the school/donors and even the real estate taxes are waived because it's technically on school grounds and part of the University.

Sounds to me like they've given him everything he wants to keep him happy and I can't see them ever jeopardizing him being unhappy by wanting a "leave" clause, and one with such a high payback taboot. Not to mention him even agreeing to it, which given everything else in totality, seems unlikely.

The only thing I can see is at most he, like his coaches would have to pay back 20% of his salary. Considering his actual coaching salary is so low (written like that intentionally I'm sure) his payback would be minimal.

In comment 13777914 Eric from BBI said:

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I don't think the Giants job is as attractive as many Giants fans think it is. But that's me. My guess is we land Wilks but I don't think that is a given.

All HC openings are attractive. Yes, some are more attractive than others but they are all desirable.

Bears signing Matt Nagy as HC

In comment 13778176 cjd2404 said:

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Bears signing Matt Nagy as HC

...and I see that was posted like 1/2 hour ago....

In comment 13778153 Eman11 said:

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In comment 13777917 Greg from LI said: Quote: It will cost $27 million just to get him out of his Alabama contract before he receives so much as a nickel from the Giants, and he'll demand complete control. Why does everyone keep saying this? I haven't found a single thing saying that to be true. The only things I've found are what Bama would pay Saban if they fired him without cause, $22 mil, and his coaches would owe 20% of their salary if they leave, although he waives that if they leave for a higher position. Saban's contract is structured in such a way by his agent (Sexton) they have all their bases covered and I can't imagine in the slightest they'd have such a penalty written in if he wanted to leave. Eg, his coaching "salary" is under a half mil per year with the rest being paid for him being him. He also gets a $400k bonus every year just for not leaving among a huge perc package. He lives mortgage free in a home paid for by the school/donors and even the real estate taxes are waived because it's technically on school grounds and part of the University. Sounds to me like they've given him everything he wants to keep him happy and I can't see them ever jeopardizing him being unhappy by wanting a "leave" clause, and one with such a high payback taboot. Not to mention him even agreeing to it, which given everything else in totality, seems unlikely. The only thing I can see is at most he, like his coaches would have to pay back 20% of his salary. Considering his actual coaching salary is so low (written like that intentionally I'm sure) his payback would be minimal.

Will he be bringing the Alabama boosters?

You're showing your bias.

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We have tradition, championships, a major market, top notch facilities, solid ownership, talent on the roster.

Tradition and past championships are nice but mean little moving forward.

Not sure a major market is a plus or a negative for a coach. Some families don't like being anywhere near a big city like New York. Certainly the tabloid media is not a positive.

Giants do have great facilities.

Solid ownership? Wellington is gone. John hasn't proven jack. This is the same guy who thought Coughlin, and not Reese was the problem.

Talent? The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Beyond all that, a new coach is going to be saddled with the Eli transition problem (don't think that previous PR nightmare wasn't noticed by all candidates), may be forced by ownership to keep front office personnel/coaches, may be forced to keep Odell, have to deal with a broken locker room, may be saddled with a new QB who will have Eli's long shadow hanging over him (a major issue), a practically empty cupboard on the OL and LB, saddled with JPP and Vernon's contracts.

The team just hired a GM entering retirement age and may not be here in a few years.

The Giants are a mess right now.

I'm old enough to have gone through a number of these coaching transitions and there have many coaches who have said no to the Giants.

the entire league turned the Giants down. Frank Gifford broken Dan Reeves to Wellington. George Young had no options left to present.

sure, Giants are a mess “right now” as any team in the NFL has been at random times throughout their history.

You could have said that about the Steelers or Cowboys at various points.

Giants are still a flagship organization and a flagship job.

say no doesn’t mean it’s not one of the better jobs in sports.

In comment 13777884 Powerclean765 said:

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what happens after tonight.

I assume you are hinting at Nick Saban.

It can be an attractive job and not be the right fit for some personalities. Or perhaps there are family considerations. We've seen coaches choose on that as well.

To talk to Saban.

In comment 13778277 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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To talk to Saban.

I don't think that's true at all. Please provide a link or article showing this to be true.

As I posted earlier, the only thing I've found is what BAMA would have to pay if it fired Saban without cause. I've searched high and low and can't find anything that shows a penalty for Saban to leave for the NFL.

In comment 13777914 Eric from BBI said:

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I don't think the Giants job is as attractive as many Giants fans think it is. But that's me. My guess is we land Wilks but I don't think that is a given.

I agree because of this locker room. Who wants to inherit that mess and the disaster created with the Eli fiasco. If Eli doesn't start is there another uproar from the fans and from Eli like last time? What about the other Eli? Who's coming back and who isn't? It could be real ugly.

In comment 13777914 Eric from BBI said:

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I don't think the Giants job is as attractive as many Giants fans think it is. But that's me. My guess is we land Wilks but I don't think that is a given.

It may not be desirable to those retreads that have to make it work. This may be their last hurrah at being a Head Coach in this league.

In comment 13778314 Eman11 said:

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In comment 13778277 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: To talk to Saban. I don't think that's true at all. Please provide a link or article showing this to be true. As I posted earlier, the only thing I've found is what BAMA would have to pay if it fired Saban without cause. I've searched high and low and can't find anything that shows a penalty for Saban to leave for the NFL.

It's not a penalty for leaving to the NFL. Its a buyout of his massive Alabama contract. I'm at work so I can't go searching for it. Perhaps someone else can.

In comment 13778193 Eric from BBI said:

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I'm old enough to have gone through a number of these coaching transitions and there have many coaches who have said no to the Giants.

I think the supports of the Giants being a good landing spot aren't saying people don't say "No" to the Giants. Of course people say no. Didn't Tom Couglin say no back in 1993, and Dan Reeves ended up being our 3rd choice? Circumstances.

There are only 32 HC positions open in the NFL. Just some are more attractive than others for a number of reasons - I feel the Giants spot is usually amongst the most desired.

In comment 13778196 arniefez said:

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the entire league turned the Giants down. Frank Gifford broken Dan Reeves to Wellington. George Young had no options left to present.

LOL...the whole league?

I'm sure GY, a very savy General Manager, knew exactly what his options were.

In comment 13778314 Eman11 said:

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I don't think that's true at all. Please provide a link or article showing this to be true. As I posted earlier, the only thing I've found is what BAMA would have to pay if it fired Saban without cause. I've searched high and low and can't find anything that shows a penalty for Saban to leave for the NFL.

It doesn't matter. He makes over $11 mill per year at Bama, and has a job for life. Why would he leave that?

In the Dan Reeves role.

In comment 13778361 BillKo said:

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In comment 13778193 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I'm old enough to have gone through a number of these coaching transitions and there have many coaches who have said no to the Giants. I think the supports of the Giants being a good landing spot aren't saying people don't say "No" to the Giants. Of course people say no. Didn't Tom Couglin say no back in 1993, and Dan Reeves ended up being our 3rd choice? Circumstances. There are only 32 HC positions open in the NFL. Just some are more attractive than others for a number of reasons - I feel the Giants spot is usually amongst the most desired.

Exactly...when we ask why don't they interview this guys or that guy it could be because those guys weren't interested believe it or. Giants are still a mess right now.

I think it largely depends on:

1. What does the HC prospect think of McAdoo? Was he inexperienced and in over his head? Or was he dealt a losing hand by management, especially in regards to the QB position and OL?

2. Which season is more indicative of the talent on this team? If you think the team is closer to 2016, you're probably jumping at the opportunity to add the #2 pick to a potential playoff contender. If you think that the 2016 team just go "lucky" and it's talent was closer to that of a 5-6 win team, then there's not much difference between the Giants and the other available teams.

In short, if you (like many/most Giants fans) think McAdoo was a buffoon in over his head, then you probably place most of the blame for 2017 at his feet and feel its a unique situation to be walking into a new HC position with a team that is talented enough to compete for the postseason in year 1 (ala 2016).

In comment 13778351 Blue21 said:

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In comment 13777914 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I don't think the Giants job is as attractive as many Giants fans think it is. But that's me. My guess is we land Wilks but I don't think that is a given. I agree because of this locker room. Who wants to inherit that mess and the disaster created with the Eli fiasco. If Eli doesn't start is there another uproar from the fans and from Eli like last time? What about the other Eli? Who's coming back and who isn't? It could be real ugly.

The locker room is NOT a mess. Eli Apple is a mess. OBJ is not a problem except he will want $17 mill per, but every team has contract problems.
Eli fiasco is over and so are guys that caused it are gone. Gettleman will either trade Eli, play him or cut him. That is not a fiasco, that is the NFL. If the Giants draft another QB at #2 and he beats Eli out, there will be no uproar. There is no way a rookie QB beats Eli out this year.

.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13778411 jeff57 said:

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. Link - ( New Window )

He's probably right, but I'm not sure why he would refer to Studesville as a Rooney Rule interviewee when he's scheduled to be interviewed after Wilks. I think some are too quick to dismiss black candidates as "Rooney interviews". It unnecessarily diminishes the qualifications of minority candidates, and it is clearly a baseless claim here. I would expect better from Vacchiano.

In comment 13778356 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13778314 Eman11 said: Quote: In comment 13778277 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: To talk to Saban. I don't think that's true at all. Please provide a link or article showing this to be true. As I posted earlier, the only thing I've found is what BAMA would have to pay if it fired Saban without cause. I've searched high and low and can't find anything that shows a penalty for Saban to leave for the NFL. It's not a penalty for leaving to the NFL. Its a buyout of his massive Alabama contract. I'm at work so I can't go searching for it. Perhaps someone else can.

You might very well be right but I've been searching big time and can't find anything about that.

The only buyout articles I've found show what the Uni's have to pay coaches they fire without cause, eg, Mora just got over 11 mil from UCLA when he got canned.

What I've seen of Sabans deal is Bama would have to pay him over 22 mil if he has more than 4 years left on his contract if they fire him without cause. Nothing anywhere about him paying to get out of his deal.

I'm not saying you or anyone else is wrong about this, just I haven't seen anything,anywhere that says he or his new employer would have to pay Bama if he leaves. I could understand if he left for a similar D1 job but I haven't even seen anything about that.

For two minor reasons and one major reason:

1) Any place with an opening has problems

2) Any coach without a secure job that they totally want going forward has warts if not problems

Major Reason: None of them have any HC jobs just yet.

Who has the problem? Id say both. To get your ideal HC job you first have to succeed in the HC job you have. Then you can go from there.

But to have a HC job where you can show you can succeed...you have to be in a HC job

There are 32 teams. There are many more than 32 candidates.

My guess is that one factor in all this is the agents whose job it is to drum up options for their Coach. The more noise "he" could land in three or two places the possibility increases that they are nervous that they land nowhere or they don't yet have a good offer in hand.

In comment 13777869 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 13777796 Diver_Down said: Quote: In comment 13777792 Eric from BBI said: Quote: but according to various pundits... Shurmur is favorite in Arizona. Patricia is favorite in Detroit. McDaniels is favorite in Chicago or Indy. And with the way this past season went, it would be appropriate if we are left standing after the music stops. Just when we thought the shit-show was over, it apparently is making it's final encore. what is so "can't miss" about these 3 candidates? McDaniels is a proven flop away from the BB nest. Nobody actually knows what Patricia or any other BB assistant does. Every one of BB aides has been a flop except Bill O'Brien. Shurmur has the best track record as a coordinator building programs, but is no sure thing to be a successful HC, but of the 3, I think he's the best candidate.

My thoughts exactly. People are belly aching over missing out on those 3? Lol.

In comment 13777997 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said: Quote: Dealing with OBJ's tantrums and attitude and Eli's cry baby and SELFISH attitude of not allowing the team to see what they have with a young QB (Webb) and the lockeroom mess starting with Eli Apple. I really hate this place @ times.

I hate to say it, but many Giants fans have proven to me that they are as bad, if not worse than cowboy and eagle fans. Putrid. Now I understand the distaste that other people have for Giant fans. How sad.

They were 3-13---that's how much talent they have!!! Stop it!!!!

In comment 13778004 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said: They have the #2 pick, and an amount of talent higher than a typical team picking that high. Stop it. You are being foolish.

...and if you think anyone wants to be saddled to an aging QB, a Sentimental Owner, a Guaranteed QB Controversy, and the Eventual Eli Shit-storm Benching II (within the first 2 years), you're out of your minds.

is a Diva now??

Holy shit the takes here by supposed fans suck horse cock.

In comment 13778546 Rafflee said:

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...and if you think anyone wants to be saddled to an aging QB, a Sentimental Owner, a Guaranteed QB Controversy, and the Eventual Eli Shit-storm Benching II (within the first 2 years), you're out of your minds.

I find your capitalization of words fascinating...

In comment 13778541 Rafflee said:

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They were 3-13---that's how much talent they have!!! Stop it!!!! In comment 13778004 LakeGeorgeGiant said: Quote: In comment 13777983 Blue Angel said: They have the #2 pick, and an amount of talent higher than a typical team picking that high. Stop it. You are being foolish.

They clearly have holes, but that's why I added the qualifier "higher than a typical team picking that high".

They won 11 games the previous year. I stand by my statement.


Now before you respond to this post read through it 2 or 3 times, maybe take notes. Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.

Also, adding multiple exclamation points doesn't improve for argument.

Use your google machine. George Young had no one. He was turned down by everyone he offered the job to. Frank Gifford brought Reeves to Wellington. Young and Reeves got along worse than Young and Parcells did without the winning. It was a total mess.

from prospective coaches about the way the Eli think went down. Sure could look to an outsider like the coach and GM were canned for daring to play someone else at QB. Plus I don't think Eli is as nearly as well regarded around the league as Giants fans think. A new coach may very well prefer to start with a young QB rather than a 37 year old who may be untouchable.