Source of Cap is Overthecap.com
The difference between cutting JPP and Vernon
JPP 2018 Cap Number $17.5 Million
OV - $17 Million
JPP's Base Salary is 11.25 Million with $7.75 Million Guaranteed. Prorated signing bonus of $5 Million, $1 Million Roster Bonus and a $250K workout bonus
OV - Base salary is 12.75 Million with $0 guaranteed. $4 Million prorated signing bonus, $250K Work out bonus.
If you Cut JPP: The cap savings on his base salary is $3.5 Million. His $7.75 Million is guaranteed and counts against 2018 regardless if you cut him pre/post June 1. He would not earn his roster bonus or workout bonus so that's a savings of 1.25 Million. So dead money is at 7.75 Million and savings is at 1.25 Million. The kicker is the signing bonus. JPP received a $20 Million Signing bonus in the winter of 2017. It is prorated at $5 Million per year. As of this moment he has $15 Million of signing bonus left to count against NYG Cap.
If Cut before June 1 all $15 Million counts against the cap in 2018 along with his $7.75 million guaranteed salary for a total cap number in 2018 of $22.75 Million instead of his current $17.5 Million Cap hit.
If JPP is cut with the June 1 designation, his $7.75 Million guaranteed salary counts against our cap in 2018 as does the $5 Million prorated signing bonus giving him a current year cap hit of $12.75 million. We'd save $5 Million against his current cap number this year, but carryover the rest of his signing bonus of $10 Million to 2019. So that means he'd count $12.75 Million against the cap in 2018 and $10 Million in 2019 and he would not play a single snap. Smart money is JPP will stay, unless we can find a sucker to trade for him. If JPP is traded before June 1, his entire remaining signing bonus ($15 Million) counts against this years Cap. We'd save $2.5 Million from his current cap number. If traded after June 1, His cap hit in 2018 is $5 Million, but in 2019 he'd count $10 Million against the cap.
Moving onto Olivier Vernon. His work is easier. If cut prior to June 1, his remaining $12 Million in signing bonus accelerates and counts against this years cap. That would be it/ We'd save $5 Million on the cap and be done with him. If cut with post June 1 designation, He'd count $4 million against this years cap and $8 Million next against 2019 cap. Keep in mind with the post June 1 designation, you do not get the extra cap relief, in this case the extra $8 Million, until June 1. It is more of a tool to release a player early so they can get a new job quicker but the team has to carry the cap number to June 1. So if OV is cut with a June 1 designation, he'd carry a 12 million cap number until June 1. Then on June 2, his cap number would change to $4 Million, with the remaining 8 million hitting NYG 2019 Cap.
OK Any questions?
Cause if your going to rebuild your not winning next year and you may just want to get rid of all the bad contracts not take the cap hits so for 2019 you have a clean cap for the most part and can go get what you want to win if you put together some good drafts to go with it.
It is often tough when dealing with fan posts about the cap because so few people realize that being under the cap can sometimes be as bad as being over the cap. In an ideal world, a team would spend all of their allocated dollars and have the contracts come off the books as they add new ones.
We've been in very good cap shape for years now.
To dump underperforming player(s) and free up cap to sign more quality players to accelerate a turnaround after the last 5+ years of randomness?
Why don't we wait and see who the HC and DC are so they know what kind of defense they are playing. Likely a 4-3 but they might switch to 3-4.
IMO, keep them both for next year and hope for a rebound. Giants are paying for their d-line either way. Might as well get the players we're paying for.
Why don't we wait and see who the HC and DC are so they know what kind of defense they are playing. Likely a 4-3 but they might switch to 3-4.
Agreed my top 5 I'd cut are:
Marshall - $5.1 Million
Jerry - $2.5 Million
Harris - $2.45 Million
Wing - $1.02 Million
Armstrong - $1.25 Million
Those five total $12.32 Million
DRC is possible at $6.9 Million but with Eli Apple being a loose cannon I might keep him.
Love OV when he's healthy.
I fully expect both to be back and Gettleman to use one of their first 4 picks on a DE.
I fully expect both to be back and Gettleman to use one of their first 4 picks on a DE.
Yep. If you cut them, who are you overpaying in FA to replace them?
Again - you want to be up against the cap. Being over or under is a mismanagement of funds.
- JPP = $22,750,000
- OV = $12,000,000
Not to mention, who will play DE if you do?
Enjoy the offseason. For some of you it's better than the actual season.
OV isn't going anywhere. He does a lot that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.
JPP needs to be more consistent but we could be doing far worse.
They need depth behind them to give them rest then their quality of play will go up. Their usage is way too high.
Our DL needs depth and real LBs playing behind them. We'll see a totatlly different Defense with some quality LBs flying around, filling gaps, and making plays.
I'll say it again, Vernon is a cornerstone player. That's a reason this was a 3-13 team.
Watching Calais Campbell all season has made me want to puke.
I'll say it again, Vernon is a cornerstone player. That's a reason this was a 3-13 team.
Watching Calais Campbell all season has made me want to puke.
Campbell is a future HOFer. That guy is an absolute monster as a player and an even better leader. Unreal what he's done.
- add a snacks like additional DT, that is, a playmaker DT that is also big and stout at the point of attack, and:
With both on the line at the same time, your ends and backers suddenly get better.
Or, a giant true Nose Tackle.
Similarly, to let Harrison and Tomlinson make one gap plays without giving up overall gap integrity.
Same. DE and LB play will improve as will snacks sack count.
But didn't the Giants' offense lead the league in 3 and out? And didn't JPP and Vernon take almost all the snaps in many games?
The are being much overpaid, but they are two starting quality defensive ends, who play well against the run.
Also, I don't know if the Giants are guilty of this, but they should be looking to get a pass rush any way they can. It doesn't have to be a mano to mano fight between the rusher and the blocker.
Collins and DRC are both good blitzers, quick to get into the backfield and then solid tacklers.
I don't recall the Giants running many twists or stunts (actually I don't know what the difference is between the two). Both JPP and Vernon are pretty quick for their size and if they can get into the defensive backfield by looping around their defensive tackle and running free past a surprised guard, that's fine with me.
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this year. There are others that are likely gone that will save $10 to 12 against the cap.
Why don't we wait and see who the HC and DC are so they know what kind of defense they are playing. Likely a 4-3 but they might switch to 3-4.
Agreed my top 5 I'd cut are:
Marshall - $5.1 Million
Jerry - $2.5 Million
Harris - $2.45 Million
Wing - $1.02 Million
Armstrong - $1.25 Million
Those five total $12.32 Million
DRC is possible at $6.9 Million but with Eli Apple being a loose cannon I might keep him.
JPP and Vernon are starters. They aren't some washed up guys who are backups, and if you replace them in the FA pool, you'll more than likely have to overpay to do so.
Cap Management is about managing the ebb and flow of contracts so you aren't over the cap or amass a lot of dead money that prevents moves. This year it is not cap friendly to move JPP or Vernon - but it gets better in future years.
Trying to equate a player's performance to his cap number is inherently flawed because it looks at Player A vs. his cap allotment, when it should be instead about Pl;ayer B being cheaper and performing at a higher level meaning that dollars can be used elsewhere (with the further assumption that these additional signings will perform well).
I'm not even going to go into the fact that over the past 5 years it has been damn hard to get over the cap because of the league continually raising it and how easy it is to restructure contracts to push out to years where the cap will once again go up
We ended up signing:
- A multiple Pro-Bowl DT
- A Pro-Bowl CB
- A Starting DE
All of whom are under 30 years old.
The contract that was actually far worse was Rhett ellison's because he's being paid like a starter but is a backup and a seldom used backup at that.
But it doesn't have as much impact to yell about him as it does to scream WE SPENT $200M DOLLARS!!!
Even though those dollars were spent wisely and has not prevented any further moves from being made.
I fully expect both to be back and Gettleman to use one of their first 4 picks on a DE.
p.s.-- I could easily see the Giants going something like...
1. QB Rosen
2. OL Price
3. RB Chubb
4. CB Toliver
4c. LB Nwosu
JPP's contract is horrific because ideally we would be able to cut him and we can't for two years.
And regarding Reese's spending orgy, don't forget that Vernon has underperformed and Jenkins is coming off a year during which he missed a game to suspension because he couldn't be bothered to come back from the bye on time. And I'd suggest you read Sy's game review of San Francisco and reconsider how you feel about Jenkins.
Christ.
But you keep harping about the cost of players as if they are useless guys taking up cap room without the realization that if you don't have a replacement on a first contract, they will have a cap hit that is fairly high too.
Unless you take is that JPP and Vernon can easily be replaced by anyone, most of your commentary from a financial standpoint is way off base, and it is also dependent on finding very cost-effective replacements and then using that money efficiently at other positions.
I get you were upset about spending $200M - but that investment has actually been a net positive, as we have a minimum of 2 Pro Bowlers out of it, not to mention that JPP and Vernon aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be.
And you make them out to be bad because you didn't like the $$ thrown at them and because JPP blew up his hand.
That doesn't change the analytics of it no matter how often you post your dislike for them.
THe league has told teams to expect an increase of 7-11 million this year.
I could be getting this wrong, but Eli counts for a whopping 22 million against the cap. If Eli goes, we have plenty of cap space?
And even if Eli stays another year, the Giants could "borrow" from the 2019 cap with the knowledge that Eli will be off the cap for sure in 2019.
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I fully expect both to be back and Gettleman to use one of their first 4 picks on a DE.
If the Giants don't like the QBs, I can see them going DE with their first pick, but if it's not Bradley Chubb in round one, I don't necessarily see the Giants taking a DE in rounds 2 through 4. It becomes much more a matter of grabbing BPA at any position of need and not so much about prioritizing one position over another. Passrushers are like QBs, if you don't get one in the first 50 picks, you're just throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks. I'm still hopeful about Avery Moss.
p.s.-- I could easily see the Giants going something like...
1. QB Rosen
2. OL Price
3. RB Chubb
4. CB Toliver
4c. LB Nwosu
Price may be gone by then. Top end OL are getting rarer and rarer. I know it's early and Nelson at 2 is probably too high but if FA guards are not getting 8-10 million per year we say guys like him who can start from day one rise higher than hat position as gone historically. Saw one mock w him around 20.
Giants can not miss w on another higher pick OL.