In all that I've read, watched, digested about the coaching candidates this year, Wilks's name has been mentioned in a very positive light, even without the HC experience. Additionally, Rivera's comments, as well as those of his players and former players have me thinking it's possible we may pick up a diamond in the rough.
I also happen to love the way the Panthers have built around strength up front on both sides of the ball, running the ball and excellent linebacking play.
If he comes with a guy like Norv Turner, DeFilipo or Pep Hamilton, I think we would have done as well as we possibly could have in this process.
like this all the time as if the only conclusion is bad:
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
But, this is a pretty telling interview. He's not there to discuss the Golden Globes. He's there for his opinion on Wilks because Wilks is an outlier and not a known commodity like McDaniels, Patricia, Shurmur, et al. I think he is there to read the man that maybe the "CEO" of Giants football. I doubt Tisch knows as much about football as the common BBIer. But I'd bet he knows people.
like this all the time as if the only conclusion is bad:
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
Not saying it’s a bad hire just saying the process was like 2 years. Clearly they have a favorite. Time will tell if it’s a good or bad hire. I am just concerned with the no HC experience and 1 year as coordinator. But I’m
Not saying it’s a terrible hire
In all that I've read, watched, digested about the coaching candidates this year, Wilks's name has been mentioned in a very positive light, even without the HC experience. Additionally, Rivera's comments, as well as those of his players and former players have me thinking it's possible we may pick up a diamond in the rough.
I also happen to love the way the Panthers have built around strength up front on both sides of the ball, running the ball and excellent linebacking play.
If he comes with a guy like Norv Turner, DeFilipo or Pep Hamilton, I think we would have done as well as we possibly could have in this process.
+1
This process has nothing to do with 2 years ago.. Â
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
I think sham is probably too strong. It's possible or even likely that in his interview DG spoke about Wilks in some detail and why he felt Wilks would be a good fit and his reasoning probably had an impact. At this point I believe that they are doing due diligence on other candidates as well; at best if Wilks falls flat etc on his own interview. It may be his job to lose (most one can assume) but IMHO 'sham' is a leap.
like this all the time as if the only conclusion is bad:
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
Just my personal opinion, but Wilks seems like a great hire to me, but for some place stable. He's green as grass and will be faced with several challenges of the likes he's never faced before. Things like locker room turmoil, transition away from 2x SB winning franchise QB, developing new QB, dealing w/ a superstar deva ego, building an elite staff...
I sure hope this guy can handle it despite significant lack of experience handling these situations. I'll try to remain positive, but if he f's-up any of these situations and it's a huge costly blunder to the organization (Eli, Odell, new QB, etc.)
like this all the time as if the only conclusion is bad:
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
Just my personal opinion, but Wilks seems like a great hire to me, but for some place stable. He's green as grass and will be faced with several challenges of the likes he's never faced before. Things like locker room turmoil, transition away from 2x SB winning franchise QB, developing new QB, dealing w/ a superstar deva ego, building an elite staff...
What turmoil? Apple? Pfffttttt. Teams that need to replace fired coaches are always in some kind of turmoil.
Replacing Eli is up to Gettleman, but he isn't going to do that.
As for Apple, his replacement is already found. Sign Cockrell.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire?
Obviously, it’s because strong support from the GM is the kiss of death for any coach. The last thing you want is conviction in the hiring process. Before you know it, the coach and GM will be on the same page regarding personnel, discipline, etc. They might even refuse to undermine each other. Then where will the team be?
What you ideally want is a close decision where no candidate stands out at all, and the owners ultimately overrule the GM.
but will totally depend on who he gets for his coordinators. If he ended up with Norv Turner and Fox, I'd be completely on board. I'd feel good about the hire.
If, however, he promotes some position coaches to OC, I'm going to be frustrated at the changes made. I'm not excited about becoming a testing ground for new coaches. We need to be the place where tested coordinators want to come and win championships, not where coaches try to build their careers.
I'm not excited about becoming a testing ground for new coaches. We need to be the place where tested coordinators want to come and win championships, not where coaches try to build their careers.
Are you actually implying that if Al Holcomb is hired as DC - he would not want to win a championship?
If he's the last interview this afternoon then it's a done deal. Â
but I feel like Wilks might be a hard sell to ownership after the Mac fiasco due to the lack of experience.
I don't think the interview process is a "sham" and I don't think Wilks is the forgone conclusion. I think this is ownership taking Gettleman's guy very seriously.
if the Giants don't hire Wilks or anyone else these new few days, you have to wonder what they have cooking with the Pats and Belichick. If I had to bet, I still think they go with one of the candidates here but i'd being to question things if no HC is hired this week. This is a big 3 days here.
I'm not excited about becoming a testing ground for new coaches. We need to be the place where tested coordinators want to come and win championships, not where coaches try to build their careers.
Are you actually implying that if Al Holcomb is hired as DC - he would not want to win a championship?
Nope - they obviously would all want to win championships. Brand new coordinators like Holcomb are at a disadvantage though, imo, because of their lack of experience in their new positions. Teams need to be patient for them to learn from mistakes.
Also, inexperienced coordinators may be looking to their next jobs. Experienced coordinators can be happy with their success in their current position, particularly if they are failed HC's like Fox and Turner (see the Peter Principle), while new coordinators might want to move on to the detriment of their career even IF they are successful (see Spags in 2008), which most aren't (see countless other examples).
There are no diamond Head coaches. But there are coaches who know how to employ the talent they have on the field to maximum advantage, and those who want to impose there own system on players whether they fit into it or not. Avoid the latter unless you are starting from scratch or are building an expansion team. The Giants are not building from scratch. Forget the negative stuff you read. DG knows that this roster needs to be balanced out and the Offense has to accommodate the QB ( Eli Manning) And more discipline needs to be employed in a manner that the players buy into it. No more Boat Rides until AFTER you win the Super Bowl. If Wilks is a flexible coach in his approach to winning games and agrees with these principles then he should do fine. But his lack of lengthy experience will make it harder to build a staff. Spags may be back as DC again. But I think Spags is a good DC... the defense spent too much time on the field and with bad field position. The offense and STs were so bad the defense quit. Mack did noting about the quitters until it was too late. That cant happen again. Wilks shorter resume ways against him, but will not rule him out if DG believes in him and goes to bat for him.
You don't agree, so what. Downplay the challenges here if you want -most don't agree, just read a few media articles. But I'm sure you know better anyway.
Dan: Your examples of Fox and Turner are strange. Â
Fox has never returned to the coordinator level since getting his first head-coaching job in Carolina. Turner was only a coordinator in San Francisco for a year before taking his third HC gig in San Diego. And after being fired there, he was so content being an offensive coordinator that he quit on the Vikings in the middle of his third year, after one season in Cleveland.
May be the right guy for this team, and if he came with Norv, I think if Eli did QB this team next season that it would be a perfect fit for him. People saying Gettleman was a bad hire because he was more of the same were dead wrong for saying that, more of the same is fine if it's good. This is a huge hire, we all know that, as does ownership, I think they will get this one right, I think Gettleman is the right guy and I believe he will bring in the right head coach for this franchise moving forward. What a nice change to have a defensive minded guy as head coach and if he brings the really good offensive coordinator then it is a huge win for the Giants.
With Tisch sitting in & Wilks being DG's guy, you don't need to be a fortune teller to see where this is going. I think Wilks would have to screw up his interview royally for him not to get this. And for those who are opposed to a 1 year DC getting an HC job,think Mike Tomlin!
You made a similarly definitive statement about Matt Patricia. Are you speaking primarily from conviction or knowledge? Is your view related to your earlier contention that Belichick is currently underpaid?
He's well respected by his players, I'm pretty sure.
Reason I asked that question is that this team has a really serious problem with players and coaches. Not sure how many were on the 1, 2, and 3 (apple,Hart) lists.
With multiple players suspended this year and media reports about Flowers. Team went from playoffs to 3 wins. All because of injuries, right?
Jenkins was late to a practice without calling in. DRC was pissed about the way discipline was handed out (and he was correct.) The F Ups were by the coach handling the team poorly and poor oversight by Reese including the Eli fiasco that was as much Eli's fault as anybody else (I'm not playing if I can't play the whole game - sheesh).
You are reaching for "turmoil" and it just isn't any different than half the teams in the NFL. If you don't think injuries had a lot to do with 3-13 then you are disingenuous. If you don't think the HC being a stubborn fool had a lot to do with 3-13, you are disingenuous.
Were there a few lackadaisical plays (most if not all by Apple) - absolutely. But it turns out Jenkins needed ankle surgery; Collins needed surgery; so the DBs were hurt early in the year. Once Apple was sat down, the secondary, played hard and Cockrell stood out.
Looking back, as usual hindsight is 20/20, it was McAdoo's inability to handle the team and JRs foolish belief that the oline was ok (throw Hart's attitude in here) that killed the season.
But continuing turmoil? Once McAdoo and JR were released and Gettleman released Hart, turmoil pretty much went away.
Was it turmoil that Harrison was a problem in Pittsburgh or that Brady's trainer was thrown out by BB? Every team has some controversy. Good teams it gets overlooked. Bed teams the press jumps on it...
You made a similarly definitive statement about Matt Patricia. Are you speaking primarily from conviction or knowledge? Is your view related to your earlier contention that Belichick is currently underpaid?
This thread went from Tisch is reportedly present for Wilks' interview to guaranteed he'll be hired within a few days.
when he highlighted DC's are in more championship games than any other position. Wilks is his man.
Why bring in a McDaniels, whom will fight for his convictions, (control) during every part of the process of building a championship team. With Wilks inexperience, DG will have more control of every decision thats made during that process.
This is DG's show and Wilks will be riding on his coattails all the way to the top ( hopefully). Wilks job is to be the CEO of the team and leader of men. Wilks will take care of the rest.
This isn't a fucking novel, nor has anything been completed. Foreshadowing is a literary device to give the reader a glimpse of what's coming later. Any interpretation of it in real life is simply a projection or assumption.
Fuck me the way you guys think everything is a master plan.
Which is it, Mara is an incompetent boob or he's a guy that knows all the decisions that will be made?
I'm done discussing with you. There is plenty of evidence to support my position. You are obviously going to rationalize it away as no bit deal -fine. You have a right to your opinion. There are many many articles out there characterizing the situation as turmoil or similar adjective from reporters talking to people in the locker room. To me there is smoke, there is probably fire. That's just how I see it.
it is fairly obvious at this point that Wilks is the #1 candidate. If he leaves today and interviews for Arizona without an offer from NYG, then we know the interview didn't go all that well.
like this all the time as if the only conclusion is bad:
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
^^^ This. The truth is, no one can ever predict how these things turn out. McAdoo goes 11-5 and into the playoffs as a first time head coach (at any level). Who knew the wheels would come off this season? The fact of the matter is that with all of the information available at this time, Wilks seems like a pretty intriguing hire. Also, let's be real. This is the NFL. No matter how good your coach is (or isn't) you need the talent to compete.
Personally, I like the idea of bringing in a guy like Wilks. He's my favorite candidate out of all of them. Hopefully the interview goes well and we give him a shot.
RE: RE: The whole interview process has been a Sham Â
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
You have successfully made me root for Wilks to get hired. And if/when he succeeds, you'll probably act as if you were in favor of the hire all along.
You have made me successfully want to slit my throat
And douchebag of course I want him to succeed if he’s our coach. I want this to team to Win! But I will not be in favor of this hiring as I think it will be a bad hire but if I’m wrong I have no problem to eat crow
probably, would not be surprised to hear the announcement today or tomorrow. Never know.
I also happen to love the way the Panthers have built around strength up front on both sides of the ball, running the ball and excellent linebacking play.
If he comes with a guy like Norv Turner, DeFilipo or Pep Hamilton, I think we would have done as well as we possibly could have in this process.
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
But, this is a pretty telling interview. He's not there to discuss the Golden Globes. He's there for his opinion on Wilks because Wilks is an outlier and not a known commodity like McDaniels, Patricia, Shurmur, et al. I think he is there to read the man that maybe the "CEO" of Giants football. I doubt Tisch knows as much about football as the common BBIer. But I'd bet he knows people.
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
Not saying it’s a bad hire just saying the process was like 2 years. Clearly they have a favorite. Time will tell if it’s a good or bad hire. I am just concerned with the no HC experience and 1 year as coordinator. But I’m
Not saying it’s a terrible hire
I also happen to love the way the Panthers have built around strength up front on both sides of the ball, running the ball and excellent linebacking play.
If he comes with a guy like Norv Turner, DeFilipo or Pep Hamilton, I think we would have done as well as we possibly could have in this process.
+1
Wilks would be the first NYG coach without any prior NYG ties in a long time. The first defensive minded HC since Parcells. A welcomed change.
I think sham is probably too strong. It's possible or even likely that in his interview DG spoke about Wilks in some detail and why he felt Wilks would be a good fit and his reasoning probably had an impact. At this point I believe that they are doing due diligence on other candidates as well; at best if Wilks falls flat etc on his own interview. It may be his job to lose (most one can assume) but IMHO 'sham' is a leap.
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
I sure hope this guy can handle it despite significant lack of experience handling these situations. I'll try to remain positive, but if he f's-up any of these situations and it's a huge costly blunder to the organization (Eli, Odell, new QB, etc.)
Quote:
like this all the time as if the only conclusion is bad:
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
Just my personal opinion, but Wilks seems like a great hire to me, but for some place stable. He's green as grass and will be faced with several challenges of the likes he's never faced before. Things like locker room turmoil, transition away from 2x SB winning franchise QB, developing new QB, dealing w/ a superstar deva ego, building an elite staff...
What turmoil? Apple? Pfffttttt. Teams that need to replace fired coaches are always in some kind of turmoil.
Replacing Eli is up to Gettleman, but he isn't going to do that.
As for Apple, his replacement is already found. Sign Cockrell.
What you ideally want is a close decision where no candidate stands out at all, and the owners ultimately overrule the GM.
If, however, he promotes some position coaches to OC, I'm going to be frustrated at the changes made. I'm not excited about becoming a testing ground for new coaches. We need to be the place where tested coordinators want to come and win championships, not where coaches try to build their careers.
Are you actually implying that if Al Holcomb is hired as DC - he would not want to win a championship?
I don't think the interview process is a "sham" and I don't think Wilks is the forgone conclusion. I think this is ownership taking Gettleman's guy very seriously.
Quote:
I'm not excited about becoming a testing ground for new coaches. We need to be the place where tested coordinators want to come and win championships, not where coaches try to build their careers.
Are you actually implying that if Al Holcomb is hired as DC - he would not want to win a championship?
Nope - they obviously would all want to win championships. Brand new coordinators like Holcomb are at a disadvantage though, imo, because of their lack of experience in their new positions. Teams need to be patient for them to learn from mistakes.
Also, inexperienced coordinators may be looking to their next jobs. Experienced coordinators can be happy with their success in their current position, particularly if they are failed HC's like Fox and Turner (see the Peter Principle), while new coordinators might want to move on to the detriment of their career even IF they are successful (see Spags in 2008), which most aren't (see countless other examples).
Quote:
like the Jet's HC?
He's well respected by his players, I'm pretty sure.
Reason I asked that question is that this team has a really serious problem with players and coaches. Not sure how many were on the 1, 2, and 3 (apple,Hart) lists.
Jenkins was late to a practice without calling in. DRC was pissed about the way discipline was handed out (and he was correct.) The F Ups were by the coach handling the team poorly and poor oversight by Reese including the Eli fiasco that was as much Eli's fault as anybody else (I'm not playing if I can't play the whole game - sheesh).
You are reaching for "turmoil" and it just isn't any different than half the teams in the NFL. If you don't think injuries had a lot to do with 3-13 then you are disingenuous. If you don't think the HC being a stubborn fool had a lot to do with 3-13, you are disingenuous.
Were there a few lackadaisical plays (most if not all by Apple) - absolutely. But it turns out Jenkins needed ankle surgery; Collins needed surgery; so the DBs were hurt early in the year. Once Apple was sat down, the secondary, played hard and Cockrell stood out.
Looking back, as usual hindsight is 20/20, it was McAdoo's inability to handle the team and JRs foolish belief that the oline was ok (throw Hart's attitude in here) that killed the season.
But continuing turmoil? Once McAdoo and JR were released and Gettleman released Hart, turmoil pretty much went away.
Was it turmoil that Harrison was a problem in Pittsburgh or that Brady's trainer was thrown out by BB? Every team has some controversy. Good teams it gets overlooked. Bed teams the press jumps on it...
Quote:
.
You made a similarly definitive statement about Matt Patricia. Are you speaking primarily from conviction or knowledge? Is your view related to your earlier contention that Belichick is currently underpaid?
This thread went from Tisch is reportedly present for Wilks' interview to guaranteed he'll be hired within a few days.
There's no public evidence to support that.
Why bring in a McDaniels, whom will fight for his convictions, (control) during every part of the process of building a championship team. With Wilks inexperience, DG will have more control of every decision thats made during that process.
This is DG's show and Wilks will be riding on his coattails all the way to the top ( hopefully). Wilks job is to be the CEO of the team and leader of men. Wilks will take care of the rest.
You have successfully made me root for Wilks to get hired. And if/when he succeeds, you'll probably act as if you were in favor of the hire all along.
This isn't a fucking novel, nor has anything been completed. Foreshadowing is a literary device to give the reader a glimpse of what's coming later. Any interpretation of it in real life is simply a projection or assumption.
Fuck me the way you guys think everything is a master plan.
Which is it, Mara is an incompetent boob or he's a guy that knows all the decisions that will be made?
I’m ok with it. If you’re going to trust a GM. Let him have his own coach.
Quote:
The whole interview process has been a Sham
BeckShepEli : 9:32 am : link : reply
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
First off, it probably isn't even true, but even if it were, why is the implication that Wilks is a bad hire? Because of some parallel to Mac?
^^^ This. The truth is, no one can ever predict how these things turn out. McAdoo goes 11-5 and into the playoffs as a first time head coach (at any level). Who knew the wheels would come off this season? The fact of the matter is that with all of the information available at this time, Wilks seems like a pretty intriguing hire. Also, let's be real. This is the NFL. No matter how good your coach is (or isn't) you need the talent to compete.
Personally, I like the idea of bringing in a guy like Wilks. He's my favorite candidate out of all of them. Hopefully the interview goes well and we give him a shot.
Quote:
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
You have successfully made me root for Wilks to get hired. And if/when he succeeds, you'll probably act as if you were in favor of the hire all along.
You have made me successfully want to slit my throat
Quote:
In comment 13779790 BeckShepEli said:
Quote:
It happened 2 years ago when McAdoo was the guy. This year Wilks is the guy and it has been since DG got hired.
You have successfully made me root for Wilks to get hired. And if/when he succeeds, you'll probably act as if you were in favor of the hire all along.
You have made me successfully want to slit my throat
And douchebag of course I want him to succeed if he’s our coach. I want this to team to Win! But I will not be in favor of this hiring as I think it will be a bad hire but if I’m wrong I have no problem to eat crow