They simply aren't talented enough to be anything more than a near .500 team. They were winning games when KP was playing like Dirk, they have been exposed.
-THjr getting closer, still no set date
-Hornacek is trash
-Knicks 3 point D is comical
Around the league-
Lou Williams what a season....50 and 7, he has to be in the all-star game, he's been one of the better stories of the season.
-Durant 40 and 4... 14-18!
-Don't even know who he is but Tyrone Wallace 22, 6 and 4
-DSJ 15, 6 and 3
-Adebayo 15 and 5
-Mitchell 16, 5 and 4
-Drummond 22, 20 and 5
-Prince 16, 5 and 4, nice young player
Yes Hornacek is trash. 3 point defense is 2nd worst in the NBA, plays Jack over Frank far too much, can't find time for Willy even in BLOWOUTS. He's openly said when Thjr comes back Beasley might not play at all (in favor of Lance Thomas). Hornacek didn't get a single interview with another team before Phil brought him in (as a puppet). What evidence do you have he's anything but a bad coach? In fact citing the inbound play is ridiculous... he's been AWFUL at inbound and post-time out play calling for the entirety of his time here and it's been a consistant talking point. If Hornacek is let go he may never be a HC in the NBA ever again and certainly wouldn't be a hot commodity.
But this season was about:
1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check
2) development of kids - check
3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check
I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ
-If they view Kanter as a 3 quarter player then they simply can't extend him it's that simple.
Wouldn't be in-season but wouldn't be such a strange move Knicks or not. Perry didn't bring in Hornacek and he was a Phil pet project.
But this season was about:
1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check
2) development of kids - check
3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check
I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ
It's pretty much the epitome of "mediocre", roughly .500, "worse than" .500 more likely than not given how fragile their key players are.
But this season was about:
1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check
2) development of kids - check
3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check
I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ
#2 is not a "check" c'mon. Frank is playing a "solid" amount but not in key spots and Willy's development has gone 100% backwards. If I told you guys Willy would have played 18 games, 9 minutes per game you would have scoffed at me or suggested he was hurt. Dotson doesn't play. How is #2 a "check"? Frank playing 21 minutes per night is enough to supersede everything else? Really doubt you would be saying that if I told you the playing time/games played of the younger players before the season...
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with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500.
But this season was about:
1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check
2) development of kids - check
3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check
I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ
It's pretty much the epitome of "mediocre", roughly .500, "worse than" .500 more likely than not given how fragile their key players are.
Have to start selling off parts and play the young guys, pet them gel and mesh together and hopefully they can hit on this draft pick coming
Trade oquinn, Lee, kanter, thomas..
Rotation for rest of season should be:
Frank/Burke
Hardaway/baker
Mcdermott/Dotson
Porzingis/Beasley
Willy/noah
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with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500.
But this season was about:
1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check
2) development of kids - check
3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check
I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ
#2 is not a "check" c'mon. Frank is playing a "solid" amount but not in key spots and Willy's development has gone 100% backwards. If I told you guys Willy would have played 18 games, 9 minutes per game you would have scoffed at me or suggested he was hurt. Dotson doesn't play. How is #2 a "check"? Frank playing 21 minutes per night is enough to supersede everything else? Really doubt you would be saying that if I told you the playing time/games played of the younger players before the season...
as I said yday, they'll trade KOQ freeing up WHs minutes once again
also, I'm happy w Franks 20 min. he's contributed nicely but his offense is so underdeveloped that more would mean less
Worst part will be when he benches Beasley for Thomas when hardaway comes back
are you a bot?
If he benches a guy averaging 18 points in the last 8 or so games for Thomas I don't know how he keeps his job...
It would be utterly ridiculous
Lets hope they go ahead and sell off some assets and go young.
He gets the most out of his players every single year..
Kanter: 25
KOQ/Willy: 15
KP: 8
PF:
KP: 24
Beasley: 24
SF:
Lee: 30
Buckets: 18
Guards, 1st pair: THJ + Burke
2nd pair: JJ and Frank (I'd like to see Frank play off the ball some to reduce his "lead guard" burden a bit)
I'd sit the skill-less guys: Noah, Thomas and Baker; at the very end of the bench
Don't worry he will be back on the bench when hardaway comes back because "The team's best defender " needs minutes
Kanter: 25
KOQ/Willy: 15
KP: 8
PF:
KP: 24
Beasley: 24
SF:
Lee: 30
Buckets: 18
Guards, 1st pair: THJ + Burke
2nd pair: JJ and Frank (I'd like to see Frank play off the ball some to reduce his "lead guard" burden a bit)
I'd sit the skill-less guys: Noah, Thomas and Baker; at the very end of the bench
Hornacek will never bench baker and thomas
I'd be shocked if blatt is not the coach next year
are you a bot?
I'm a bot because I don't like Jeff Hornacek and I think Lance Thomas is a useless waste?
why would the Suns do that?
I do think its a reasonable yield and also think he adds value to Boston's goal of surpassing CLE while not giving up major young assets (which Ainge holds "near and dear")
That's fair... but how is "develop the kids" a "check" as of 1/11? Would you sign for this level of "development" for the entire season?
Gomez is the one negative but there's still half a season left. This season hasn't been great but I wouldn't call it a disaster or complete lack of progress. Let the whole season play out first. IF Gomez plays more second half and Frank gets a little bit more burn/progress under his belt, along with KP finishing strong, would that be so bad?
Halfway point.
Gomez is the one negative but there's still half a season left. This season hasn't been great but I wouldn't call it a disaster or complete lack of progress. Let the whole season play out first. IF Gomez plays more second half and Frank gets a little bit more burn/progress under his belt, along with KP finishing strong, would that be so bad?
Halfway point.
But how do you give "credit" for Hernangomez and Dotson potentially playing second half? It hasn't happened yet. If I showed you the minutes for Dotson/Hernangomez before the season not a single person on here would say "oh nice, Hornacek is developing the kids". I'm not even knocking Frank but he has NOT taken any steps forward offensively YET he's playing a reasonable amount but he looks roughly as he did when the season began (in fact his offense has regressed in recent games). You would honestly say "Hornacek has done a good job developing the young players" if I asked for some pluses on Hornacek's resume?
Fair enough. I am guilty of forecasting a bit. I think KOQ gets moved which will free WH to play as we anticipated. I think Frank has shown enough to make us hopeful that he can be at least a solid player (lot of offensive work to do though). I see Buckets has the guy blocking Dotson which is fine.
Willy (doesn't play)
Dotson doesn't play
So maybe we will sit here in April and go "man, Hornacek really did a good job, Frank improved offensively, Willy got burn, Dotson got burn" but right now I'd say outside of Frank playing even less there isn't "less" that Hornacek could be doing with the young players.
I feel like a trade is coming otherwise why not just release sessions already for burke
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has yet to make a poor move but keeping KOQ would be that.
I feel like a trade is coming otherwise why not just release sessions already for burke
I agree.
I am also very interested in the Laker players that are seemingly on the trading block. It seems they are sure about Kuzma and Ingram, frustrated with Ball (but he's not going anywhere) and everybody else has a tenuous spot.
Losses are ok at this point. If THJR is the reason we went from a decent team to a bad team, then we have bigger issues. Take it slow with THJR, rest KP a lot and try to trade everyone else for either assets and/or salary dumps.
We will end up somewhere around 8-10 worst team and hopefully we get lucky and can win the lottery like the Bulls did. If not, we should get a decent prospect to add to KP, Willy and Frank.
Timout. Isn't KOQ the best player on the Knicks?
People hate to hear it but W/L mean very little this season (especially if they miss the playoffs).
-Beasley (likely won't be back)
-KOQ (won't be back)
-Jack (won't be back)
-Sessions (won't be back)
-Dougie (may or may not be back)
I mean without Beasley I think it's safe to say the Knicks have at least 2-3 less wins. If they win games because KP/Frank/ThJr come together and play well then yes wins matter but Michael Beasley dropping 30 and carrying them to a win doesn't do a ton for for next years team. It's nothing to build on. In fact, a "solid" run of games from Willy and/or Dotson is more valuable than a "Beasley-win" or a "KOQ shuts down Boogie" win.
Who has "developed"? If they have overachieved it's been in large part because of contributions from players who have no future here - or are unlikely to have a future here.
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what your original expectations were coming into the season. I just wanted to see the Knicks progress and develop as a team. This team has overachieved so far and it's hard to argue that these results are disappointing, but the team is still light years beyond what I thought they'd be.
Who has "developed"? If they have overachieved it's been in large part because of contributions from players who have no future here - or are unlikely to have a future here.
+10
There's no doubt in my mind KP will not truly break out until he is a full time 5, which won't happen with Hornacek because he simply lacks the imagination. I pretty much agree with Dan on everything. Hornacek is a problem for this team, he's just not a modern enough NBA coach to deal with how unique KP is.
Knicks had a lot of success earlier running KP/Frank combos, and that 100% should be something that you let happen for 75% of Franks minutes. Let them run a 2 man game over and over, results be damned.
For sure, but I have a problem "assuming" this will happen unless it does.
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much as I love KP... the numbers say he's had a moderate breakout but not some "wow" development. Rookie year .102 WS/48, this season .111.
There's no doubt in my mind KP will not truly break out until he is a full time 5, which won't happen with Hornacek because he simply lacks the imagination. I pretty much agree with Dan on everything. Hornacek is a problem for this team, he's just not a modern enough NBA coach to deal with how unique KP is.
Knicks had a lot of success earlier running KP/Frank combos, and that 100% should be something that you let happen for 75% of Franks minutes. Let them run a 2 man game over and over, results be damned.
I'm not even particularly clear what Hornacek's strengths are. What would someone point to?
Where would you say "okay I have to admit Hornacek is really strong at..."? I'm genuinely curious. He's supposed to be an offensive minded coach, does anyone ever see any semblance of original/inventive offense?
I was going to start a thread about how you guys think the Knicks will handle the next 2-3 years and if and when they try and go for it? Let's assume they trade off one or two of these vets--and they re-sign Kanter on a relatively affordable 2-3 year deal. OK...so here we are 2 years from this very spot. They have an additional 2 young players from next 2 drafts...where do they go from there? Do they make that "big" move before 2 years out? Do they make it after? What is that move?
Kind of impossible to forecast these next 2-3 years but if you assume the Knicks just hold things down and maybe commit to only Kanter...I would think they have room for one big splash in 2-3 years. I guess we have to wait and see....but I wonder what they could do. Assuming Frank is a solid PG. Hardaway is a solid player. KP. Etc...
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much as I love KP... the numbers say he's had a moderate breakout but not some "wow" development. Rookie year .102 WS/48, this season .111.
There's no doubt in my mind KP will not truly break out until he is a full time 5
agree. Unfortunately, the morons building the roster the last few years didn't see things that way - and they don't quite have the personnel to play him significant minutes there.
Someone mentioned running the Frank/KP pick and roll more often. If they do, I hope that KP focuses on rolling more. It seems to me that he often misses opportunities at the rim by picking and then fading back for a jump shot.
I really don't SEE where Kanter's defense is so awful. Maybe not the best. But he's a tough guy in there and doesn't back down.
The surprise for me is that Kanter can't seem to get into a Knicks game after the first few minutes of the fourth. Odd.
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hard time seeing how people can both give Hornacek/The Knicks the benefit of the doubt AND be pro-keeping Kanter. Pretty clearly Hornacek does not believe Kanter's offense is SO good that his defense can be ignored. That's an issue.
I really don't SEE where Kanter's defense is so awful. Maybe not the best. But he's a tough guy in there and doesn't back down.
The surprise for me is that Kanter can't seem to get into a Knicks game after the first few minutes of the fourth. Odd.
But the proof is in the pudding right? He's no longer player late in games and at times basically is benched for the 4th quarter (he himself has acknowledged this). So again I ask, how can people both be supportive of Hornacek AND of Kanter. Either Hornacek knows what he's doing and Kanter is THAT bad on defense or Hornacek doesn't know what he's doing.
Kanter can serve a purpose but you can't overpay. I don't think Horn has mis-handled Kanter here at all. Doesn't mean I like Horn that much.
If you don't want to bring back Kanter that's fine too. Just have to make sure the dollars Kanter would take here are spent wisely on a different player.
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what your original expectations were coming into the season. I just wanted to see the Knicks progress and develop as a team. This team has overachieved so far and it's hard to argue that these results are disappointing, but the team is still light years beyond what I thought they'd be.
Who has "developed"? If they have overachieved it's been in large part because of contributions from players who have no future here - or are unlikely to have a future here.
I think that KP has obviously progressed. And I just used the word "develop" and not said players specifically because it's obvious that they've gone from a Melo iso team to developing a team dynamic.
I totally agree that the players that are not going to be here are dominating the playing time. Hopefully the front office recognizes this and makes some shrewd moves at the deadline to get us some younger assets.
My main point was that any increase in expectations now would have been mostly unfathomable at the beginning of the season, and if judged by that standard the season has been successful thus far, though it's disappointing to lose games like these Chicago games.
At this point, the young guys should be playing, because Frenchie will only get better with playing time.
Overall, this team is better off losing and moving higher in the draft.
But I do agree, we have a glut at center, and Kanter is going to get paid by SOMEONE. I'm not sure if it should be the Knicks. I go back and forth, depending on the night.
Fan dissatisfaction, aggressive trades and moves in order to try for a 'quick fix'.
Result, team without a particular style, or identity.
Prospective coaches showed no respect, feels like a revolving door.
It takes time to erase that. Calm down people.
It may be true that Hornys vision doesn't match the team EXACTLY - right at the moment. But that doesn't give fans a reason to suddenly ditch him. You establish a respectable stability and improve from there.
Kantor/Porz respective and best rolls on this team will become more clear over time ....additional draft picks next year will help further rationalize the roster.
I say...your only a couple of pieces away. Patience.