NFT: Knicks Chat: Mediocre team

Is it his fault KP stinks right now? Is it his fault he lost his best scorer? His fault his best players are jack and Beasley. Just conveniently leave out the fact he drew up the nicest in bounds play I’ve seen from the Knicks since JVG was coaching this team.

In comment 13782431 Tuckrule said:

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Is it his fault KP stinks right now? Is it his fault he lost his best scorer? His fault his best players are jack and Beasley. Just conveniently leave out the fact he drew up the nicest in bounds play I’ve seen from the Knicks since JVG was coaching this team.

Yes Hornacek is trash. 3 point defense is 2nd worst in the NBA, plays Jack over Frank far too much, can't find time for Willy even in BLOWOUTS. He's openly said when Thjr comes back Beasley might not play at all (in favor of Lance Thomas). Hornacek didn't get a single interview with another team before Phil brought him in (as a puppet). What evidence do you have he's anything but a bad coach? In fact citing the inbound play is ridiculous... he's been AWFUL at inbound and post-time out play calling for the entirety of his time here and it's been a consistant talking point. If Hornacek is let go he may never be a HC in the NBA ever again and certainly wouldn't be a hot commodity.

the legend of THjr sure has grown since he got hurt. He's now a better scorer than KP, ya know... the guy averaging 24 per game (poor play recently and all). I guess THjr is a superstar.

with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500.

But this season was about:

1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check
2) development of kids - check
3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check

I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ

Never any stability with this organization.

Bulls are 12-27 vs. the rest of the league. 3-0 vs. the Knicks. 3rd worst road record in the NBA

-If they view Kanter as a 3 quarter player then they simply can't extend him it's that simple.

In comment 13782445 Sean said:

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Never any stability with this organization.

Wouldn't be in-season but wouldn't be such a strange move Knicks or not. Perry didn't bring in Hornacek and he was a Phil pet project.

In comment 13782444 Pep22 said:

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with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500. But this season was about: 1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check 2) development of kids - check 3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ

It's pretty much the epitome of "mediocre", roughly .500, "worse than" .500 more likely than not given how fragile their key players are.

In comment 13782444 Pep22 said:

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with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500. But this season was about: 1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check 2) development of kids - check 3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ

#2 is not a "check" c'mon. Frank is playing a "solid" amount but not in key spots and Willy's development has gone 100% backwards. If I told you guys Willy would have played 18 games, 9 minutes per game you would have scoffed at me or suggested he was hurt. Dotson doesn't play. How is #2 a "check"? Frank playing 21 minutes per night is enough to supersede everything else? Really doubt you would be saying that if I told you the playing time/games played of the younger players before the season...

also not even touching on the lack of offensive development displayed by Frank so far (he's been awful lately). His defense is as advertised, but where is this "development" we should be giving Hornacek for?

In comment 13782450 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13782444 Pep22 said: Quote: with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500. But this season was about: 1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check 2) development of kids - check 3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ It's pretty much the epitome of "mediocre", roughly .500, "worse than" .500 more likely than not given how fragile their key players are.

Have to start selling off parts and play the young guys, pet them gel and mesh together and hopefully they can hit on this draft pick coming

they intend on extending KOQ, NOT trading him would be my first real issue with Scott Perry.

In comment 13782456 DanMetroMan said:

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they intend on extending KOQ, NOT trading him would be my first real issue with Scott Perry.

Trade oquinn, Lee, kanter, thomas..

Rotation for rest of season should be:

Frank/Burke
Hardaway/baker
Mcdermott/Dotson
Porzingis/Beasley
Willy/noah

were getting experience in crunch time. Oh wait - the only player to get meaningful minutes last night that has a future around here was KP. Most of our offensive sets are bullshit. So much standing around while we try to feed the post. What century is this?

In comment 13782451 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13782444 Pep22 said: Quote: with all parts in place. Without THJ and no decent lead guard, they're < .500. But this season was about: 1) getting rid of the poison (Melo, Phil) - check 2) development of kids - check 3) after a long absence, reverting back to a decent level of consistent intensity, unselfishness - check I am happy with the progress so far and look forward to THJs return and the addition of an offensive shot in the arm like Burke and whatever may come via the trades of guys like KOQ #2 is not a "check" c'mon. Frank is playing a "solid" amount but not in key spots and Willy's development has gone 100% backwards. If I told you guys Willy would have played 18 games, 9 minutes per game you would have scoffed at me or suggested he was hurt. Dotson doesn't play. How is #2 a "check"? Frank playing 21 minutes per night is enough to supersede everything else? Really doubt you would be saying that if I told you the playing time/games played of the younger players before the season...

as I said yday, they'll trade KOQ freeing up WHs minutes once again

also, I'm happy w Franks 20 min. he's contributed nicely but his offense is so underdeveloped that more would mean less

tells me all I need to know about Hornacek.

In comment 13782480 Greg from LI said:

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tells me all I need to know about Hornacek.

Worst part will be when he benches Beasley for Thomas when hardaway comes back

In comment 13782480 Greg from LI said:

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tells me all I need to know about Hornacek.

are you a bot?

openly said when Thjr comes back Beasley might not play at all.

In comment 13782487 DanMetroMan said:

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openly said when Thjr comes back Beasley might not play at all.

If he benches a guy averaging 18 points in the last 8 or so games for Thomas I don't know how he keeps his job...

It would be utterly ridiculous

Or last minute shot clock chucks from Lee or Jack. Hard to watch us struggle for good 2 pt shots while we give up open threes to the other team.

Lets hope they go ahead and sell off some assets and go young.

Has to be spoelstra, that team roster does not have a lot of talent and look what they are doing..

He gets the most out of his players every single year..

Yes KP included. He rebounds and his D has been greatly improved. He is a player you want to lock up for 3 years. One of the better 2nd team players in the league.

C:

Kanter: 25
KOQ/Willy: 15
KP: 8

PF:

KP: 24
Beasley: 24

SF:

Lee: 30
Buckets: 18

Guards, 1st pair: THJ + Burke
2nd pair: JJ and Frank (I'd like to see Frank play off the ball some to reduce his "lead guard" burden a bit)

I'd sit the skill-less guys: Noah, Thomas and Baker; at the very end of the bench

In comment 13782502 Carl in CT said:

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Yes KP included. He rebounds and his D has been greatly improved. He is a player you want to lock up for 3 years. One of the better 2nd team players in the league.

Don't worry he will be back on the bench when hardaway comes back because "The team's best defender " needs minutes

might be in play for the Knicks this summer? Blatt? Fizdale?

In comment 13782504 Pep22 said:

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C: Kanter: 25 KOQ/Willy: 15 KP: 8 PF: KP: 24 Beasley: 24 SF: Lee: 30 Buckets: 18 Guards, 1st pair: THJ + Burke 2nd pair: JJ and Frank (I'd like to see Frank play off the ball some to reduce his "lead guard" burden a bit) I'd sit the skill-less guys: Noah, Thomas and Baker; at the very end of the bench

Hornacek will never bench baker and thomas

In comment 13782507 Enzo said:

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might be in play for the Knicks this summer? Blatt? Fizdale?

I'd be shocked if blatt is not the coach next year

You want to play Frank at lead guard? He can't shoot. I haven't seen him make a shot in a month. There may be upside here because of his length, but he needs work at creating off the bounce, finishing at the rim, and of course shooting. But he is still only 19 so there's time

In comment 13782486 Enzo said:

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are you a bot?

I'm a bot because I don't like Jeff Hornacek and I think Lance Thomas is a useless waste?

I want to play him more with Jack and off the ball more (not exclusively). I think he is overwhelmed right now as the lead guard. His ball handling just doesn't allow him to navigate himself into good shooting situations or create for others via drive/dish.

The trade market is non existent, most teams know they can’t win so they are holding young assets and waiting it out. I don’t think we are going to get much value for any of these guys. Unless they can get expiring or shorter duration contracts then these guys just aren’t worth trading as much as I think they should be traded. Are you guys for trading Lee for expirings and a 2nd rd pick? I guess I would consider that. Do we want to dump oquinn to a contender for a late 2nd rounder? Not a lot of teams have cap room next year maybe it’s a year where oquinn won’t get much more than 6-8 million per year. Could be worth keeping at that point. I would call Phoenix and see if they would take Kanter for Monroe expiring and one of the Miami 1st rounders.

In comment 13782546 GMEN46 said:

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The trade market is non existent, most teams know they can’t win so they are holding young assets and waiting it out. I don’t think we are going to get much value for any of these guys. Unless they can get expiring or shorter duration contracts then these guys just aren’t worth trading as much as I think they should be traded. Are you guys for trading Lee for expirings and a 2nd rd pick? I guess I would consider that. Do we want to dump oquinn to a contender for a late 2nd rounder? Not a lot of teams have cap room next year maybe it’s a year where oquinn won’t get much more than 6-8 million per year. Could be worth keeping at that point. I would call Phoenix and see if they would take Kanter for Monroe expiring and one of the Miami 1st rounders.

why would the Suns do that?

I'd love to get Semi Ojeleye from Boston for him

I do think its a reasonable yield and also think he adds value to Boston's goal of surpassing CLE while not giving up major young assets (which Ainge holds "near and dear")

i.e. they plan to re-up KOQ, then Julius Randle is an interesting target

I'm not being a jerk but I keep going back to "#2" in my head. How has the "development of kids" occured? Your threshold was literally "play Frank 20 minutes per night"? Because otherwise it hasn't happened, maybe it will but Dotson and Willy don't even play. If #2 was "play Frank a reasonable numbers of minutes" then I would agree.

That rumbling you hear is the second half tank arriving for battle. We need an athlete in the lottery - we're too freaking slow out there at every position.

deadline. It's fair to play the older guys and try and dump them. But after the deadline, if we aren't trying to see what young guys we have might be NBA players I'll be mad. Trade Lee, OQuinn and maybe even Thomas (for a bag of doritos if necessary).

In comment 13782676 Heisenberg said:

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deadline. It's fair to play the older guys and try and dump them. But after the deadline, if we aren't trying to see what young guys we have might be NBA players I'll be mad. Trade Lee, OQuinn and maybe even Thomas (for a bag of doritos if necessary).

That's fair... but how is "develop the kids" a "check" as of 1/11? Would you sign for this level of "development" for the entire season?

Have expected. They need to learn how to close out games. Right now they don't have anyone whose game gets calmer in crunch time. Beasly for all he has shown does most of his brain lock stuff with 3-4 minutes to go. Last night the only guy who did anything smart at the end was Jack until he made a really awful play to end it. Not good if he has to be your finisher in those situations.

Frank is playing a good amount of minutes and of course KP has taken a step forward. It could be worse. KP could stuck in neutral or not really any better off last season and Frank could be a total train wreck out there--barely playing.

Gomez is the one negative but there's still half a season left. This season hasn't been great but I wouldn't call it a disaster or complete lack of progress. Let the whole season play out first. IF Gomez plays more second half and Frank gets a little bit more burn/progress under his belt, along with KP finishing strong, would that be so bad?

Halfway point.

In comment 13782737 djm said:

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Frank is playing a good amount of minutes and of course KP has taken a step forward. It could be worse. KP could stuck in neutral or not really any better off last season and Frank could be a total train wreck out there--barely playing. Gomez is the one negative but there's still half a season left. This season hasn't been great but I wouldn't call it a disaster or complete lack of progress. Let the whole season play out first. IF Gomez plays more second half and Frank gets a little bit more burn/progress under his belt, along with KP finishing strong, would that be so bad? Halfway point.

But how do you give "credit" for Hernangomez and Dotson potentially playing second half? It hasn't happened yet. If I showed you the minutes for Dotson/Hernangomez before the season not a single person on here would say "oh nice, Hornacek is developing the kids". I'm not even knocking Frank but he has NOT taken any steps forward offensively YET he's playing a reasonable amount but he looks roughly as he did when the season began (in fact his offense has regressed in recent games). You would honestly say "Hornacek has done a good job developing the young players" if I asked for some pluses on Hornacek's resume?

much as I love KP... the numbers say he's had a moderate breakout but not some "wow" development. Rookie year .102 WS/48, this season .111.

In comment 13782594 DanMetroMan said:

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I'm not being a jerk but I keep going back to "#2" in my head. How has the "development of kids" occured? Your threshold was literally "play Frank 20 minutes per night"? Because otherwise it hasn't happened, maybe it will but Dotson and Willy don't even play. If #2 was "play Frank a reasonable numbers of minutes" then I would agree.

Fair enough. I am guilty of forecasting a bit. I think KOQ gets moved which will free WH to play as we anticipated. I think Frank has shown enough to make us hopeful that he can be at least a solid player (lot of offensive work to do though). I see Buckets has the guy blocking Dotson which is fine.

just saying if we are talking about a Hornacek scorecard... Frank has played a reasonable amount (hasn't shown any development offensively YET)

Willy (doesn't play)

Dotson doesn't play

So maybe we will sit here in April and go "man, Hornacek really did a good job, Frank improved offensively, Willy got burn, Dotson got burn" but right now I'd say outside of Frank playing even less there isn't "less" that Hornacek could be doing with the young players.

has yet to make a poor move but keeping KOQ would be that.

In comment 13782766 DanMetroMan said:

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has yet to make a poor move but keeping KOQ would be that.

I feel like a trade is coming otherwise why not just release sessions already for burke

In comment 13782777 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13782766 DanMetroMan said: Quote: has yet to make a poor move but keeping KOQ would be that. I feel like a trade is coming otherwise why not just release sessions already for burke

I agree.

I am also very interested in the Laker players that are seemingly on the trading block. It seems they are sure about Kuzma and Ingram, frustrated with Ball (but he's not going anywhere) and everybody else has a tenuous spot.

Whether he's tired or something else is bothering him, he looks like he's at 50% out there. No legs. He's gonna have to do lots of lower body and core training this offseason.

Losses are ok at this point. If THJR is the reason we went from a decent team to a bad team, then we have bigger issues. Take it slow with THJR, rest KP a lot and try to trade everyone else for either assets and/or salary dumps.

We will end up somewhere around 8-10 worst team and hopefully we get lucky and can win the lottery like the Bulls did. If not, we should get a decent prospect to add to KP, Willy and Frank.

In comment 13782766 DanMetroMan said:

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has yet to make a poor move but keeping KOQ would be that.

Timout. Isn't KOQ the best player on the Knicks?