Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Raanan: Patricia the clear favorite

jeff57 : 1/12/2018 8:05 am
Quote:
Patricia is the favorite for the job, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the teamís coaching search. The Giants were impressed by his smarts and view him as the ultimate Bill Belichick protťgť considering he was close to a blank canvas when he arrived in New England.

Link - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: RE: I'm OK with this guy  
Chef : 1/12/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 13784373 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 13784354 jvm52106 said:


Quote:


In comment 13784335 mrvax said:


Quote:


provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke".



Plus 1... I will add Heavy Handed and winning practice as well.



+2 maybe we can get back to complementary football


God he was awful.. lol
RE: RE: ..........  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 13784351 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13784249 CoughlinHandsonHips said:


Quote:




Mountain Dew, Cargo shorts, unkept beard, WCW shirt. If we go on looks I'd say Detroit is the favorite to land him hahah



It's a little concerning if he drinks that much soda lol, but get it done Giants, this would be great news. I think Matt Patricia would be a home run hire for this team.

Also, I have a few close Pats friends who have that shirt. It's actually not a WCW/nWo shirt, if you look closely it's actually Kraft, Belichick, Brady, Edelman, Gronk as the nWo with their heads superimposed over Hogan, Bischoff, Hall, Nash, etc. Someone made that shirt since the Pats are the ultimate heels of the NFL, and it became very popular amongst the fan base. The fans and team embrace the cool bad guy role, which I think is hilarious and awesome.

Can't wait after years of sustained winning for our gWo shirts.


I'm with you on this. That was his role, running a rebel shop. I actually like that. By contrast, McDaniels comes across as a bit of a jerk. Indy can have him.
He looks like he just came out of the woods  
Simms11 : 1/12/2018 9:43 am : link
in Maine from a hunting trip?! Hey, even Einstein was a messy genius. Iím sure heís great with the players, and by all accounts, they love him in NE, but how will he be when he has to reprimand someone or fine someone? There are those nuances of the job that he may not excel in. Quite frankly, as long as heís got the Giants competitive and back in the playoffs, it wonít matter. Ehh, who knows. Itís all interesting speculation right now.
RE: He looks like he just came out of the woods  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 13784407 Simms11 said:
Quote:
in Maine from a hunting trip?! Hey, even Einstein was a messy genius. Iím sure heís great with the players, and by all accounts, they love him in NE, but how will he be when he has to reprimand someone or fine someone? There are those nuances of the job that he may not excel in. Quite frankly, as long as heís got the Giants competitive and back in the playoffs, it wonít matter. Ehh, who knows. Itís all interesting speculation right now.


This, and he could also be some hipster artisanal butcher in Park Slope. Some of that would have to change as a HC and it might not work. I hope it does, and from what little we can possibly know, it seems like a good option.
RE: A change to a 3-4 would require time, like a 2-3 year transition  
Joey in VA : 1/12/2018 9:53 am : link
In comment 13784294 The_Boss said:
Quote:
And a total change in philosophy. LBís become the focus of the D.
Wrong. Wade Phillips took a very good 4-3 in LA and it became a playoff caliber 3-4. Itís not this huge transition or transformation, its still 7 guys manning gaps itís a slight tweak.
No question about Patricia  
Alwaysblue22 : 1/12/2018 10:03 am : link
His defenses have performed very well without stars like JPP. OV, Harrison, Collins, Jackrabbit, and DRC. Image what he can do here. But of course his defenses in NE do not have to stay on the field the entire game like our defense. I am sure he will assist DG in correcting that issue on the offensive side of the ball. That does not require a QB change, It requires a solid O-line, a feared RB, and a more balanced offense that is not a strict short passing three and out WCO style of McAdoo. Also the hurry up tempo may be scraped since it does not help our defense and has not resulted in points. You do not need a hurry up the entire game if you have a solid running attack. It is better to score while eating up the clock and resting your defense.
don't a lot of teams  
bc4life : 1/12/2018 10:06 am : link
play a combination of 3-4 & 4-3 even if they heavily favor one scheme?
RE: they let up 128 points weeks 1-4 (32 ppg)  
Rflairr : 1/12/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13784347 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
weeks 5-17 they let up 168 points (14 ppg).

That is glaring, didn't realize how huge of a difference it really was.


That must be when Bellicick had enough. And started taking over
2017 Defensive Yards per Game Regular Season:  
M.S. : 1/12/2018 10:15 am : link
New England Pats 4th worst:

366.0 Yards per Game.

Giants were 2nd worst:

373.2 Yards per Game

Now that's progress!
RE: 2017 Defensive Yards per Game Regular Season:  
arcarsenal : 1/12/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 13784467 M.S. said:
Quote:
New England Pats 4th worst:

366.0 Yards per Game.

Giants were 2nd worst:

373.2 Yards per Game

Now that's progress!


Now show me the difference in points allowed.
RE: RE: they let up 128 points weeks 1-4 (32 ppg)  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13784460 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13784347 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


weeks 5-17 they let up 168 points (14 ppg).

That is glaring, didn't realize how huge of a difference it really was.



That must be when Bellicick had enough. And started taking over


Yup thatís definitely all it is. It was also all BB the other years too when they had a good defense. No way a DC can ever make adjustments...
woo hoo!  
Heisenberg : 1/12/2018 10:23 am : link
I'm down with Matty P.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2018 10:24 am : link
We need a kick ass sort of guy and he fits the profile.
RE: RE: A change to a 3-4 would require time, like a 2-3 year transition  
jvm52106 : 1/12/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 13784423 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13784294 The_Boss said:


Quote:


And a total change in philosophy. LBís become the focus of the D.

Wrong. Wade Phillips took a very good 4-3 in LA and it became a playoff caliber 3-4. Itís not this huge transition or transformation, its still 7 guys manning gaps itís a slight tweak.


OMG, FInally someone else who sees this. People act like it is some sort of gimmick that requires specialized players only and takes a miracle to man...
I would like to go on record that I want Shurmur.  
Boy Cord : 1/12/2018 10:42 am : link
Past HC experience and successful in his OC stops. Giants are about to transition to a new QB and there isn't a better HC candidate to help with the selection process and oversee the maturation of whomever they choose. This is the most important position in sports.
RE: I would like to go on record that I want Shurmur.  
jeff57 : 1/12/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 13784524 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
Past HC experience and successful in his OC stops. Giants are about to transition to a new QB and there isn't a better HC candidate to help with the selection process and oversee the maturation of whomever they choose. This is the most important position in sports.


Agree. Maybe it'll still come to pass. But if it's Patricia, maybe a good OC will serve that purpose.
With Patricia having no HC experience...  
bLiTz 2k : 1/12/2018 10:59 am : link
what do you guys think of guys like Del Rio & Fox as coordinators? They obviously have showed shortcomings being the head guy, but have been in the league a while and have the experience to back up a guy like Matt Patricia.
RE: RE: I would like to go on record that I want Shurmur.  
mphbullet36 : 1/12/2018 10:59 am : link
In comment 13784556 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13784524 Boy Cord said:


Quote:


Past HC experience and successful in his OC stops. Giants are about to transition to a new QB and there isn't a better HC candidate to help with the selection process and oversee the maturation of whomever they choose. This is the most important position in sports.



Agree. Maybe it'll still come to pass. But if it's Patricia, maybe a good OC will serve that purpose.


thats why I think I like Patricia, we can def bring in an up and coming young offensive coordinator to groom a young QB. If Shurmer is the coach he becomes the coach of the entire team so he can solely focus on the QB...so that is why Patricia makes sense and hire a OC that sole focus will be to develop a young QB and let patricia run the team and implement his defensive schemes.
LOL...I predicted that no one would hire him as a HC  
montanagiant : 1/12/2018 11:19 am : link
That would be a swing and a miss on my part
Iím no Shurmur fan  
Rflairr : 1/12/2018 11:23 am : link
But Iíd rather he be the coach than Patricia. One reason is I donít want to see Brian Daboll here as OC.
RE: With Patricia having no HC experience...  
Breeze_94 : 1/12/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 13784563 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
what do you guys think of guys like Del Rio & Fox as coordinators? They obviously have showed shortcomings being the head guy, but have been in the league a while and have the experience to back up a guy like Matt Patricia.


Iíve seen Greg Schiano mentioned as a possibility as DC for Patricia or DC to replace Patricia in NE
RE: So what pieces do  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/12/2018 11:38 am : link
In comment 13784324 section125 said:
Quote:
the Giants have for a 3-4 defense. I'll try, you correct,

NT - Snacks/Tomlinson
DE - JPP/Bromley (If OV to small for DE move Bromley)
DE - Vernon/Wynn (OV may be too small and move to OLB)

LOLB - Okwara (was a LB at ND)/???
ROLB - Vernon(?) / Williams
RILB - Goodsen / Draft Pick
LILB - Kennard / Draft Pick

CB - Jenkins/ DRC
CB - Cockrell/Apple

SS- Collins/Adams
FS - Thompson/Draft Pick

I think Okwara would be perfect as OLB - played some LB at ND and he looked good dropping into zone coverage a couple times and he has a decent pass rush.

Flame away....



Wow...so much wrong in one post, but to point out the two biggest misses..

JPP is a 4-3 DE through and through, and not suited for 3-4 DE.

Kennard would likely play OLB. At 6-3 240, he has the build for OLB in a 3-4.
This guy is the opposite of McAdoo  
PatersonPlank : 1/12/2018 11:38 am : link
I'm against rolling the dice on Coordinators as HC's in general, because its a roll of the dice, but I'm ok with him if thats our direction. To me its really hit or miss, and I'd rather hire a guy with HC experience. Someone who has succeeded somewhere, and yes I know has also failed somewhere too (so he will be dinged), but at least I know he has done it before.
RE: I feel like Ben McAdoo changed after that first season.  
Reale01 : 1/12/2018 11:48 am : link
In comment 13784257 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
He seemed more relatable at first to me.

Then he came in last season with that "power do" on his head and tried to be all stoic - almost as if he either:
1)new expectations would be higher for him after 11-5 and he was trying way too hard, or

2) Thought he earned and deserved a lot more respect after his early success, and it went to his head.

He just came off like a dick though. It was just really weird.



Agree. He was arrogant, stubborn, and condescending.
RE: RE: So what pieces do  
Rjanyg : 1/12/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13784627 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13784324 section125 said:


Quote:


the Giants have for a 3-4 defense. I'll try, you correct,

NT - Snacks/Tomlinson
DE - JPP/Bromley (If OV to small for DE move Bromley)
DE - Vernon/Wynn (OV may be too small and move to OLB)

LOLB - Okwara (was a LB at ND)/???
ROLB - Vernon(?) / Williams
RILB - Goodsen / Draft Pick
LILB - Kennard / Draft Pick

CB - Jenkins/ DRC
CB - Cockrell/Apple

SS- Collins/Adams
FS - Thompson/Draft Pick

I think Okwara would be perfect as OLB - played some LB at ND and he looked good dropping into zone coverage a couple times and he has a decent pass rush.

Flame away....




Wow...so much wrong in one post, but to point out the two biggest misses..

JPP is a 4-3 DE through and through, and not suited for 3-4 DE.

Kennard would likely play OLB. At 6-3 240, he has the build for OLB in a 3-4.


I would argue that JPP is a bad 4-3 DE now. He has little speed around the corner and has had a hard time setting and maintaining the edge in the run game. He might be better as a 3-4 DE eating up blockers. He would line up in a 5 Technique ( head up on the Tackle ).

Tomlinson could be a 5 Tech DE as well with Snacks at the 0 Tech. OV can and has played OLB, Kennard could play inside or outside, Goodson strictly and ILB. I could see the Giants drafting a pass rushing OLB, would love Key in round 2.

I've never understood  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2018 12:03 pm : link
the "we have to hire a coach with HC experience" thing...what if he just didn't do that good of a job as a head coach? How is being a head coach and not doing well any better than a really successful coordinator who hasn't had his opportunity yet?
Yes, JPP would be better suited as a 3-4 end  
jeff57 : 1/12/2018 12:13 pm : link
at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs.
RE: I've never understood  
Brown Recluse : 1/12/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13784664 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the "we have to hire a coach with HC experience" thing...what if he just didn't do that good of a job as a head coach? How is being a head coach and not doing well any better than a really successful coordinator who hasn't had his opportunity yet?


There is nothing to understand because it makes no sense. And history has shown time and again, plenty of 1st time head coaches having success.

Whether or not you've had HC experience doesn't matter. You either have what it takes or you don't.
RE: I've never understood  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13784664 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the "we have to hire a coach with HC experience" thing...what if he just didn't do that good of a job as a head coach? How is being a head coach and not doing well any better than a really successful coordinator who hasn't had his opportunity yet?


I agree...and what's more, if the HC had a winning record, they would not be on the market.

There's no clear path. Parcells was a first time coach when he won.  
Heisenberg : 1/12/2018 12:50 pm : link
Coughlin was a retread. Belicheck was a retread. There's no one path that guarantees good results. And there's the risk of it ending poorly with both new guys and retreads.
Do we know if there are rules that prevent  
aka dbrny : 1/12/2018 1:14 pm : link
signing him while the Pats are still alive?
RE: Do we know if there are rules that prevent  
jeff57 : 1/12/2018 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13784766 aka dbrny said:
Quote:
signing him while the Pats are still alive?


Yes.
Here is the Key to Hiring Patricia  
Alwaysblue22 : 1/12/2018 1:18 pm : link
He sets up his schemes differently for each opponent. That is the Patriots way. Its called "where is Waldo?" Where is the weakness in the other team that we need to exploit. Its is entirely different from the McAdoo "one size fits all and if it does not work blame the QB" approach. Remember what BB did against the Buffalo bills for us in SB 25? That is BB and why he is successful. This approach is ingrained into all of his assistant coaches and in particular the defensive coach. If MP become HC he will insist that the same approach be used on the offensive side of the ball while DG will be busy filling the holes on offense left by Reese... meaning fixing the o-line, and getting a feared RB weapon.
There really is only 1 legit 'knock' on Patricia...  
Torrag : 1/12/2018 1:24 pm : link
...that he hasn't done it before.
Vernon as an OLB in a 3-4  
Stratman : 1/12/2018 1:29 pm : link
I'm no football guru and not trying to claim to be. But, my observation is that OV is at his least effectiveness when he is locked up with a 300lb+ tackle. Get him in space, and he can use his speed and leverage to his advantage. It seems going to a 3-4 would be ideal, at least for OV. Take his hand out of the dirt and let him move in all directions. Probably not ideal for JPP. What am I missing?
RE: i'm also curious what the Pats D ranks  
TMS : 1/12/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13784338 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.
Interesting observation but it loses some impact with Belichek being such a defensive guru himself. No doubt this guy has demonstrsaed smarts based on his academic background but so did Handley. Fine with the pick myself if he is the guy. Just hope we get one of them
RE: There really is only 1 legit 'knock' on Patricia...  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13784791 Torrag said:
Quote:
...that he hasn't done it before.


Correct. Everything else is just noise. He's super smart, innovative and hungry. By all accounts the players love him. I can't think of a reason why anyone wouldn't like this hire if we were to make it outside of just wanting something to complain about.
RE: RE: i'm also curious what the Pats D ranks  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13784814 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 13784338 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.

Interesting observation but it loses some impact with Belichek being such a defensive guru himself. No doubt this guy has demonstrsaed smarts based on his academic background but so did Handley. Fine with the pick myself if he is the guy. Just hope we get one of them


I hear you, but that would hold more weight if he was only a 1 or 2 year DC. Its year 6, I'm guessing BB leans on Patricia heavily and not just for analytics.
RE: Yes, JPP would be better suited as a 3-4 end  
Vanzetti : 1/12/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13784672 jeff57 said:
Quote:
at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs.


They could use Vernon the wAy they used LT. We always talk about the Giants back then as a 3-4 But LT rushed the passer 99% of the time. Only question is can OV play without his hand on the ground

Anyway itís fun to speculate

RE: RE: Yes, JPP would be better suited as a 3-4 end  
BleedBlue : 1/12/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13784844 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13784672 jeff57 said:


Quote:


at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs.



They could use Vernon the wAy they used LT. We always talk about the Giants back then as a 3-4 But LT rushed the passer 99% of the time. Only question is can OV play without his hand on the ground

Anyway itís fun to speculate


yes i believe OV can play without his hand in the ground...

it would look like this

JPP
Snacks
Tomlinson

Vernon
Goodson
K. Robinson if brought back
Kennard

i could think of SEVERAL guys in this draft we could and should take at LBer that would improve the front
RE: RE: RE: Yes, JPP would be better suited as a 3-4 end  
j_rud : 1/12/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13784875 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13784844 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


In comment 13784672 jeff57 said:


Quote:


at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs.



They could use Vernon the wAy they used LT. We always talk about the Giants back then as a 3-4 But LT rushed the passer 99% of the time. Only question is can OV play without his hand on the ground

Anyway itís fun to speculate




yes i believe OV can play without his hand in the ground...

it would look like this

JPP
Snacks
Tomlinson

Vernon
Goodson
K. Robinson if brought back
Kennard

i could think of SEVERAL guys in this draft we could and should take at LBer that would improve the front


I think they could play some 3-4 with minimal impact to the current D as you've outlined. There was a play in OVs first year here, a zone blitz, where he stayed with a TE 30 yards down field.
First  
PaulN : 1/12/2018 2:44 pm : link
I will say that he sounds like an excellent candidate, and he has been with Bill long enough to understand how Bill goes about his business, understand one thing, there is no motivational or interpersonal qualities about Belichick that separates him, it is understanding how Bill goes about his business, and that takes intelligence and time, both which this man has. It does not guarantee anything, he still has to command the locker room, get the respect of his players and deal with the constant media pressure, but it sounds like he is worth giving him a shot at this.

Second, Belechick loved his time with the Giants, loved it, and there is no fucking way anyone with an ounce of brains would take the Lions job over the Giants job if they have any balls at all, so these reports of him favoring the Lions are ridiculous. And for those that are going to tell me they have a franchise QB, tell me how many playoff games he has won, tell me how many rings does the Lions franchise have? It is pure typical New York hatred from the jealous media as usual.
4-2-5 will be the base imo  
DennyInDenville : 1/12/2018 2:47 pm : link
No 3-4 or 4-3

We will see though
No head coach and no defensive coordinator yet  
B in ALB : 1/12/2018 2:58 pm : link
But dipshit says they'll play nickel most of the game. Brilliant.
I never liked Mac and his offense  
Bluesbreaker : 1/12/2018 3:06 pm : link
did not suit Eli .
I am no expert but Patricia looks to be a very focused coach whenever you see him he is young and been successful
I don't want some retread like Fox wants some fresh blood.
Raanan  
Peppers : 1/12/2018 4:09 pm : link
Last April made a top 10 most likely picks for our selection in the draft. He listed over 15 players in all. Not one of them was Evan Engram. Goes to show you how dialed in he and his sources are.
So, .... are they going ti call him "Patty" for short?  
short lease : 1/13/2018 8:16 am : link
Doesn't sound right to me?

I want my generals to be called "Patton", MacArthur" .... "Stonewall (theres a name), .... Parcells !!!

He better be good .... ; )


IAS ... hoping for the best! Give 'em Patricia!

I think we can go to a 3-4 this year and be good in it by next year  
TD : 1/13/2018 9:20 am : link
The only player who would really be out of position is JPP.

The thing is, though, JPP does not strike me as part of the long-term solution. My guess is we cut ties with him as soon as the cap hit makes sense. Too much wear and tear and heís just not very good any more.

Tomlison as a 3-4 DE would be a question mark but I think he can pull it off.

I think OV and Kennard would thrive in a 3-4. Ditto Snacks and Goodson (if he can stay on the field).
RE: Here is the Key to Hiring Patricia  
TMS : 1/13/2018 11:01 am : link
In comment 13784780 Alwaysblue22 said:
Quote:
He sets up his schemes differently for each opponent. That is the Patriots way. Its called "where is Waldo?" Where is the weakness in the other team that we need to exploit. Its is entirely different from the McAdoo "one size fits all and if it does not work blame the QB" approach. Remember what BB did against the Buffalo bills for us in SB 25? That is BB and why he is successful. This approach is ingrained into all of his assistant coaches and in particular the defensive coach. If MP become HC he will insist that the same approach be used on the offensive side of the ball while DG will be busy filling the holes on offense left by Reese... meaning fixing the o-line, and getting a feared RB weapon.
Good post, hope you are right. What has been lacking here is coordinating our personnel to our schemes instead of just picking high measurable guys who flame out without getting a second contract.
As for the 3-4 argument  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/13/2018 11:43 am : link
It is worth pointing out that "can" and "should" are two different things.

Can you shoehorn JPP to 3-4 end? Sure, but you are likely better off finding a player that fits. (Setting aside JPPs play this past season)

Can you play Kennard inside? I guess, but why would you want to when he has the prototypical frame for OLB?

A lot of the discussion has focused on fitting square pegs into round holes because you can.

That said, with Patricia it likely won't be a straight up 3-4 but more of a hybrid, hopefully with versatile players for different packages.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner