Raanan: Patricia the clear favorite

Man, they better get this right. Words like this will bite them in the ass forever if he ends up being another McAdoo.

it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.

That would require a massive infusion of LB talent. I guess Vernon and Kennard could play the outside.

Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him.

hmm

that reminds me of McAdoo.

I'm not the guy who's going to tell you "see? told ya!" about Mac ... but I was never completely settled with that choice, even after 11-5. There was always something about the guy I didn't love.

I don't get that at ALL about Patricia.

& then we’re set.

In comment 13784243 Beezer said:

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that reminds me of McAdoo. I'm not the guy who's going to tell you "see? told ya!" about Mac ... but I was never completely settled with that choice, even after 11-5. There was always something about the guy I didn't love. I don't get that at ALL about Patricia.

Bingo. Never warmed up to McAdoo either.

And handle the media. He seemed mousy to me in some of his pressers with media.

Mountain Dew, Cargo shorts, unkept beard, WCW shirt. If we go on looks I'd say Detroit is the favorite to land him hahah

In comment 13784242 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

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Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him. hmm

From everything I’ve read he and is wife have strong ties to the northeast. That could be the determining factor for him.

but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes:

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I like Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though.

The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice.

I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE

He seemed more relatable at first to me.

Then he came in last season with that "power do" on his head and tried to be all stoic - almost as if he either:
1)new expectations would be higher for him after 11-5 and he was trying way too hard, or

2) Thought he earned and deserved a lot more respect after his early success, and it went to his head.

He just came off like a dick though. It was just really weird.

To see whether a Patricia hire would lead to an eventual transition to a 3-4 base. I’m sure Patricia with his knowledge could run and adapt to a 4-3 but his bread and butter is the 3-4.

Also am curious what kind of offense he’d want to have run here.

If he’s the guy, the coordinator picks will be very interesting.

In comment 13784242 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

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Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him. hmm

Maybe that means he tops the list in both searches and he will get to choose.

In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes: Quote: I like Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though. The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice. I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE

The 20th rank is based on yards not points per game.
They are lights out in scoring defense

I like the 3-4 defense a lot. Hopefully we make the change although Gettleman's Panthers ran the 4-3

In comment 13784281 larryflower37 said:

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In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes: Quote: I like Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though. The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice. I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE The 20th rank is based on yards not points per game. They are lights out in scoring defense

My concern is once he doesn't have Brady will his numbers be worse.Nothing like a Brady to keep the other teams offense off the field.

In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes: Quote: I like Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though. The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice. I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE

The only year the Pats won a SB ranked 20th or below in D was 2001.

Year YdsRnk/Pts Rank
2016 8/1
2014 13/8
2004 9/2
2003 7/1
2001 24/6

A great philosophy if you want to minimze impact on the score at the least hit to the cap and most flexibility if you have injuries.

Remember Fewell? Could not cope and went into a shell if he lost a starter? Not that.

The patriots run both the 4-3 and 3-4? I doubt a switch is coming anytime soon since we mostly have practice squad lbs.

And a total change in philosophy. LB’s become the focus of the D.

so I'm ok with this.

Wouldnt it be interesting...

HOF NYG head coach Bill Parcells grooms young coordinator Bill Belichick in his mold before BB eventually moves on to his own HOF head coaching career in New England, where he then grooms young coordinator Patricia before he moves on to a similar career in NYG? Comes full circle.

who would be the best coach. It's up to the Giants brain trust. They blew it with McAdoo, but they had a big winner with TC. I'm glad Gettleman is back with that group helping to decide.

In comment 13784242 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

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Multiple sources also saying Detroit is the favorite to land him. hmm

What sources? I haven't seen anything since probably Wednesday that they are the favorite to land him. Those rumors were from PFT over the weekend.

In comment 13784236 Brown Recluse said:

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Man, they better get this right. Words like this will bite them in the ass forever if he ends up being another McAdoo.

One writers speculation and words will hardly have any impact on the outcome of his time here. Nor if it didn't work out.

judging by the looks of our GM and HC, get ready for an infusion of some big boys up front on both sides of the ball and a return to quality LB play.

is a 3-4, he was an OL when he played, coached the OL and then moved to D.

the Patriots run their base D less than 25% of the time, and are in sub-packages the bulk of it.

plus they were even a 4-3 for a few years during Patricia's tenure.

I'd say his bread and butter would be coming up with sub-packages to counter the offenses formations.

one thing I'd love to see is investment on the defensive side of the ball relative to their ranking. they regularly let players on D go instead of paying them like Chandler Jones, Richard Seymour, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, even guys like Vince Wilfork, the only guy I remember them paying is McCourty other than Dont'a Hightower and he's on IR.

In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes: Quote: I like Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though. The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice. I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE

Points allowed is a more important stat IMO. Patricia's defenses where ranked #11 in 2012, #10 in 2013, #7 in 2014, #8 in 2015, #1 in 2016 and #5 this year. That is pretty impressive.

1/4th of the Superbowl winning teams had the #1 defense for points allowed.

Out of these three, Patricia is the one that makes me want to like him as a candidate. Not sure if it is the fact that it is unknown what he can be as a head coach, or the known of the other two's performance when they had there shot. I do think it is time we had a more defensive influence here. The last 5 head coaches have been offensive minded guys.

He’d probably drop dead with a heart attack!

In comment 13784302 pjcas18 said:

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is a 3-4, he was an OL when he played, coached the OL and then moved to D. the Patriots run their base D less than 25% of the time, and are in sub-packages the bulk of it. plus they were even a 4-3 for a few years during Patricia's tenure. I'd say his bread and butter would be coming up with sub-packages to counter the offenses formations. one thing I'd love to see is investment on the defensive side of the ball relative to their ranking. they regularly let players on D go instead of paying them like Chandler Jones, Richard Seymour, Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, even guys like Vince Wilfork, the only guy I remember them paying is McCourty other than Dont'a Hightower and he's on IR.

Where did you obtain that stat on the base/sub packages? That 25 percent figure doesn’t pass the smell test to me from watching the Pats a ton.

...it's how you perform at crunch time, and make those 7-8 players per game that usually decide an NFL game.

He's from a winning program, one that demands being a professional.

That's good enough for me.

Now go draft some football players!!!!!!

Josh in the City is creaming his pants right now!

In comment 13784243 Beezer said:

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that reminds me of McAdoo. I'm not the guy who's going to tell you "see? told ya!" about Mac ... but I was never completely settled with that choice, even after 11-5. There was always something about the guy I didn't love. I don't get that at ALL about Patricia.

I don't get the comparisons either...its lazy. Their resumes couldn't be any more different, as well as their coaching lineage.

New England's defensive talent was never upper echelon, but they always do a good job of taking out the other teams best weapon. Also, they adjust on the fly and the defense usually gets better as the season progresses, such as this season.

Of all the candidates no issue with Patricia for the simple fact, he will bring some New England culture to the Giants, which will be fresh.

I would have preferred McDaniels, just because I believe he is a great offensive coach and will learn from his mistakes. I go back to the fact that all 3 QBs from last season for NE were starting this year. He deserves some credit for that.

He will fail miserably in his first head coaching gig. He is a down in the weeds guy; an X's and O's guy.

the Giants have for a 3-4 defense. I'll try, you correct,

NT - Snacks/Tomlinson
DE - JPP/Bromley (If OV to small for DE move Bromley)
DE - Vernon/Wynn (OV may be too small and move to OLB)

LOLB - Okwara (was a LB at ND)/???
ROLB - Vernon(?) / Williams
RILB - Goodsen / Draft Pick
LILB - Kennard / Draft Pick

CB - Jenkins/ DRC
CB - Cockrell/Apple

SS- Collins/Adams
FS - Thompson/Draft Pick

I think Okwara would be perfect as OLB - played some LB at ND and he looked good dropping into zone coverage a couple times and he has a decent pass rush.

Flame away....

but their base D right now isn't even a 3-4, their base D is what most people call a sub-package.

They run a 4-2-5 base D.

I think if Hightower wasn't hurt, it may even be a more traditional 4-3.

but point is while Belichick may prefer a 3-4 if all things were equal, he rarely sits in base D and is not at all married to the scheme, and he's probably been a 4-3 as much as he's been a 3-4 in New England.

And the majority of the time is in a sub package.

And to that point Matt Patricia I wouldn't say a 3-4 is his bread and butter since I think he's pretty much able to improvise and adapt to his personnel and game situation.

provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke".

after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.

In comment 13784236 Brown Recluse said:

Quote:

Man, they better get this right. Words like this will bite them in the ass forever if he ends up being another McAdoo.

.

That doesn't even make any sense ('ultimate protege'), sounds good in print.
It gives the reporter something to write, I guess.
I am not surprised who was eliminated from the list, that
part was predictable....Spags, Studesville, and Wilks
(because of his inexperience).

In comment 13784331 pjcas18 said:

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but their base D right now isn't even a 3-4, their base D is what most people call a sub-package. They run a 4-2-5 base D. I think if Hightower wasn't hurt, it may even be a more traditional 4-3. but point is while Belichick may prefer a 3-4 if all things were equal, he rarely sits in base D and is not at all married to the scheme, and he's probably been a 4-3 as much as he's been a 3-4 in New England. And the majority of the time is in a sub package. And to that point Matt Patricia I wouldn't say a 3-4 is his bread and butter since I think he's pretty much able to improvise and adapt to his personnel and game situation.

That is true, the one thing he and Belichick do however is require their personnel to be versatile, especially at LB and S/CB.

That could mean significant personnel changes on D the next couple seasons. We would definitely need an upgrade at FS and better depth at CB. I could see Patricia use Collins in various looks lining up as a LB and in blitz packages. I think a couple MLB types become a priority as well.

One thing that wouldn’t be in doubt is the necessity of bringing in really good LBs. It does not matter what type of defense or package, Belichick and Patricia both require lots of LBs, and ones who are scheme diverse.

In comment 13784338 UConn4523 said:

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after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.

.

In the first month, the secondary was having some serious
communication issues, specifically Gilmore as the newcomer.

weeks 5-17 they let up 168 points (14 ppg).

That is glaring, didn't realize how huge of a difference it really was.

In comment 13784249 CoughlinHandsonHips said:

Quote:

Mountain Dew, Cargo shorts, unkept beard, WCW shirt. If we go on looks I'd say Detroit is the favorite to land him hahah

It's a little concerning if he drinks that much soda lol, but get it done Giants, this would be great news. I think Matt Patricia would be a home run hire for this team.

Also, I have a few close Pats friends who have that shirt. It's actually not a WCW/nWo shirt, if you look closely it's actually Kraft, Belichick, Brady, Edelman, Gronk as the nWo with their heads superimposed over Hogan, Bischoff, Hall, Nash, etc. Someone made that shirt since the Pats are the ultimate heels of the NFL, and it became very popular amongst the fan base. The fans and team embrace the cool bad guy role, which I think is hilarious and awesome.

Can't wait after years of sustained winning for our gWo shirts.

In comment 13784335 mrvax said:

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provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke".

Plus 1... I will add Heavy Handed and winning practice as well.

In comment 13784305 Boatie Warrant said:

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In comment 13784252 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: but he has had an up and down career as far as performance goes: Quote: I like Jon in NYC : 8:13 am : link : reply it. He's the smart, analytical mind. Unlike Wilks, his unit has a history of success over a long period of time despite the personnel. It's definitely a big leap for him though. The Pats as a team have had a lot of success, but they are still one of the only teams to win a SB with a defense ranked 20th or below and they did it twice. I don't think that will detract from the ability of Patricia as a leader, as I think he'll be hired for approaching the game the same way Belicheck does, but based solely on his performance, he's second fiddle to the offensive guys who have come out of NE Points allowed is a more important stat IMO. Patricia's defenses where ranked #11 in 2012, #10 in 2013, #7 in 2014, #8 in 2015, #1 in 2016 and #5 this year. That is pretty impressive. 1/4th of the Superbowl winning teams had the #1 defense for points allowed. Out of these three, Patricia is the one that makes me want to like him as a candidate. Not sure if it is the fact that it is unknown what he can be as a head coach, or the known of the other two's performance when they had there shot. I do think it is time we had a more defensive influence here. The last 5 head coaches have been offensive minded guys.

+1

Quote:

One thing that wouldn’t be in doubt is the necessity of bringing in really good LBs. It does not matter what type of defense or package, Belichick and Patricia both require lots of LBs, and ones who are scheme diverse.

I wonder if Matt Patricia is hired if he and Gettleman get on the same page about LB's.

Patriots always have good and versatile LB's. From Phifer, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Mayo, Bruschi, Colvin (who was somewhat of a bust due to injury), Adalius Thomas (see Colvin), Vrabel, Nincovich, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Van Noy, etc. even an old Seau played there and was decent.

I don't know if the Giants have had one LB as good as any of them in 20 years.

In comment 13784288 Bill2 said:

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A great philosophy if you want to minimze impact on the score at the least hit to the cap and most flexibility if you have injuries. Remember Fewell? Could not cope and went into a shell if he lost a starter? Not that.

Yes. A thousand times yes.

folks are looking too much at the stats to pigeon hole Patricia.

He's been the defensive coordinator under Belichick for 6 seasons and has led some really good defenses in that timeframe. He has worked with Belichick and the Pats organization since 2006 and ultimately, will be charged with changing the culture around here. He most likely (from all accounts) has some really fresh and new ideas surrounding analytics. Most importantly, he can relate to players, as discussed by people in that locker room. He's 43. As Jon discussed, we need a growth hire that can stay with this team for 10+ years if everything works out.

He would be a great choice. Let's not breakdown every season and every game that he coached.

In comment 13784366 ryanmkeane said:

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folks are looking too much at the stats to pigeon hole Patricia. He's been the defensive coordinator under Belichick for 6 seasons and has led some really good defenses in that timeframe. He has worked with Belichick and the Pats organization since 2006 and ultimately, will be charged with changing the culture around here. He most likely (from all accounts) has some really fresh and new ideas surrounding analytics. Most importantly, he can relate to players, as discussed by people in that locker room. He's 43. As Jon discussed, we need a growth hire that can stay with this team for 10+ years if everything works out. He would be a great choice. Let's not breakdown every season and every game that he coached.

He joined the Patriots in 2004, not that it matters, but...

In comment 13784354 jvm52106 said:

Quote:

In comment 13784335 mrvax said: Quote: provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke". Plus 1... I will add Heavy Handed and winning practice as well.

+2 maybe we can get back to complementary football

I agree, first question in interview, should be whether or not they will refer to the ball as the duke. If the answer is yes, the interview should be over.

even better...a few more years haha.

I feel this time around the Giants have given some thought to the search and there was no lead candidate going in.

I always felt McAdoo was a lazy hire and the interview process was a sham.

In comment 13784241 jeff57 said:

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That would require a massive infusion of LB talent. I guess Vernon and Kennard could play the outside.

The Pats mostly run a 4-3 base this year.

In comment 13784373 DonQuixote said:

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In comment 13784354 jvm52106 said: Quote: In comment 13784335 mrvax said: Quote: provided he never refers to the football as "The Duke". Plus 1... I will add Heavy Handed and winning practice as well. +2 maybe we can get back to complementary football

God he was awful.. lol

In comment 13784351 GiantTuff1 said:

Quote:

In comment 13784249 CoughlinHandsonHips said: Quote: Mountain Dew, Cargo shorts, unkept beard, WCW shirt. If we go on looks I'd say Detroit is the favorite to land him hahah It's a little concerning if he drinks that much soda lol, but get it done Giants, this would be great news. I think Matt Patricia would be a home run hire for this team. Also, I have a few close Pats friends who have that shirt. It's actually not a WCW/nWo shirt, if you look closely it's actually Kraft, Belichick, Brady, Edelman, Gronk as the nWo with their heads superimposed over Hogan, Bischoff, Hall, Nash, etc. Someone made that shirt since the Pats are the ultimate heels of the NFL, and it became very popular amongst the fan base. The fans and team embrace the cool bad guy role, which I think is hilarious and awesome. Can't wait after years of sustained winning for our gWo shirts.

I'm with you on this. That was his role, running a rebel shop. I actually like that. By contrast, McDaniels comes across as a bit of a jerk. Indy can have him.

in Maine from a hunting trip?! Hey, even Einstein was a messy genius. I’m sure he’s great with the players, and by all accounts, they love him in NE, but how will he be when he has to reprimand someone or fine someone? There are those nuances of the job that he may not excel in. Quite frankly, as long as he’s got the Giants competitive and back in the playoffs, it won’t matter. Ehh, who knows. It’s all interesting speculation right now.

In comment 13784407 Simms11 said:

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in Maine from a hunting trip?! Hey, even Einstein was a messy genius. I’m sure he’s great with the players, and by all accounts, they love him in NE, but how will he be when he has to reprimand someone or fine someone? There are those nuances of the job that he may not excel in. Quite frankly, as long as he’s got the Giants competitive and back in the playoffs, it won’t matter. Ehh, who knows. It’s all interesting speculation right now.

This, and he could also be some hipster artisanal butcher in Park Slope. Some of that would have to change as a HC and it might not work. I hope it does, and from what little we can possibly know, it seems like a good option.

In comment 13784294 The_Boss said:

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And a total change in philosophy. LB’s become the focus of the D.

Wrong. Wade Phillips took a very good 4-3 in LA and it became a playoff caliber 3-4. It’s not this huge transition or transformation, its still 7 guys manning gaps it’s a slight tweak.

His defenses have performed very well without stars like JPP. OV, Harrison, Collins, Jackrabbit, and DRC. Image what he can do here. But of course his defenses in NE do not have to stay on the field the entire game like our defense. I am sure he will assist DG in correcting that issue on the offensive side of the ball. That does not require a QB change, It requires a solid O-line, a feared RB, and a more balanced offense that is not a strict short passing three and out WCO style of McAdoo. Also the hurry up tempo may be scraped since it does not help our defense and has not resulted in points. You do not need a hurry up the entire game if you have a solid running attack. It is better to score while eating up the clock and resting your defense.

play a combination of 3-4 & 4-3 even if they heavily favor one scheme?

In comment 13784347 UConn4523 said:

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weeks 5-17 they let up 168 points (14 ppg). That is glaring, didn't realize how huge of a difference it really was.

That must be when Bellicick had enough. And started taking over

New England Pats 4th worst:

366.0 Yards per Game.

Giants were 2nd worst:

373.2 Yards per Game

Now that's progress!

In comment 13784467 M.S. said:

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New England Pats 4th worst: 366.0 Yards per Game. Giants were 2nd worst: 373.2 Yards per Game Now that's progress!

Now show me the difference in points allowed.

In comment 13784460 Rflairr said:

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In comment 13784347 UConn4523 said: Quote: weeks 5-17 they let up 168 points (14 ppg). That is glaring, didn't realize how huge of a difference it really was. That must be when Bellicick had enough. And started taking over

Yup that’s definitely all it is. It was also all BB the other years too when they had a good defense. No way a DC can ever make adjustments...

We need a kick ass sort of guy and he fits the profile.

In comment 13784423 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 13784294 The_Boss said: Quote: And a total change in philosophy. LB’s become the focus of the D. Wrong. Wade Phillips took a very good 4-3 in LA and it became a playoff caliber 3-4. It’s not this huge transition or transformation, its still 7 guys manning gaps it’s a slight tweak.

OMG, FInally someone else who sees this. People act like it is some sort of gimmick that requires specialized players only and takes a miracle to man...

Past HC experience and successful in his OC stops. Giants are about to transition to a new QB and there isn't a better HC candidate to help with the selection process and oversee the maturation of whomever they choose. This is the most important position in sports.

In comment 13784524 Boy Cord said:

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Past HC experience and successful in his OC stops. Giants are about to transition to a new QB and there isn't a better HC candidate to help with the selection process and oversee the maturation of whomever they choose. This is the most important position in sports.

Agree. Maybe it'll still come to pass. But if it's Patricia, maybe a good OC will serve that purpose.

what do you guys think of guys like Del Rio & Fox as coordinators? They obviously have showed shortcomings being the head guy, but have been in the league a while and have the experience to back up a guy like Matt Patricia.

In comment 13784556 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 13784524 Boy Cord said: Quote: Past HC experience and successful in his OC stops. Giants are about to transition to a new QB and there isn't a better HC candidate to help with the selection process and oversee the maturation of whomever they choose. This is the most important position in sports. Agree. Maybe it'll still come to pass. But if it's Patricia, maybe a good OC will serve that purpose.

thats why I think I like Patricia, we can def bring in an up and coming young offensive coordinator to groom a young QB. If Shurmer is the coach he becomes the coach of the entire team so he can solely focus on the QB...so that is why Patricia makes sense and hire a OC that sole focus will be to develop a young QB and let patricia run the team and implement his defensive schemes.

That would be a swing and a miss on my part

But I’d rather he be the coach than Patricia. One reason is I don’t want to see Brian Daboll here as OC.

In comment 13784563 bLiTz 2k said:

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what do you guys think of guys like Del Rio & Fox as coordinators? They obviously have showed shortcomings being the head guy, but have been in the league a while and have the experience to back up a guy like Matt Patricia.

I’ve seen Greg Schiano mentioned as a possibility as DC for Patricia or DC to replace Patricia in NE

In comment 13784324 section125 said:

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the Giants have for a 3-4 defense. I'll try, you correct, NT - Snacks/Tomlinson DE - JPP/Bromley (If OV to small for DE move Bromley) DE - Vernon/Wynn (OV may be too small and move to OLB) LOLB - Okwara (was a LB at ND)/??? ROLB - Vernon(?) / Williams RILB - Goodsen / Draft Pick LILB - Kennard / Draft Pick CB - Jenkins/ DRC CB - Cockrell/Apple SS- Collins/Adams FS - Thompson/Draft Pick I think Okwara would be perfect as OLB - played some LB at ND and he looked good dropping into zone coverage a couple times and he has a decent pass rush. Flame away....

Wow...so much wrong in one post, but to point out the two biggest misses..

JPP is a 4-3 DE through and through, and not suited for 3-4 DE.

Kennard would likely play OLB. At 6-3 240, he has the build for OLB in a 3-4.

I'm against rolling the dice on Coordinators as HC's in general, because its a roll of the dice, but I'm ok with him if thats our direction. To me its really hit or miss, and I'd rather hire a guy with HC experience. Someone who has succeeded somewhere, and yes I know has also failed somewhere too (so he will be dinged), but at least I know he has done it before.

In comment 13784257 Brown Recluse said:

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He seemed more relatable at first to me. Then he came in last season with that "power do" on his head and tried to be all stoic - almost as if he either: 1)new expectations would be higher for him after 11-5 and he was trying way too hard, or 2) Thought he earned and deserved a lot more respect after his early success, and it went to his head. He just came off like a dick though. It was just really weird.

Agree. He was arrogant, stubborn, and condescending.

In comment 13784627 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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In comment 13784324 section125 said: Quote: the Giants have for a 3-4 defense. I'll try, you correct, NT - Snacks/Tomlinson DE - JPP/Bromley (If OV to small for DE move Bromley) DE - Vernon/Wynn (OV may be too small and move to OLB) LOLB - Okwara (was a LB at ND)/??? ROLB - Vernon(?) / Williams RILB - Goodsen / Draft Pick LILB - Kennard / Draft Pick CB - Jenkins/ DRC CB - Cockrell/Apple SS- Collins/Adams FS - Thompson/Draft Pick I think Okwara would be perfect as OLB - played some LB at ND and he looked good dropping into zone coverage a couple times and he has a decent pass rush. Flame away.... Wow...so much wrong in one post, but to point out the two biggest misses.. JPP is a 4-3 DE through and through, and not suited for 3-4 DE. Kennard would likely play OLB. At 6-3 240, he has the build for OLB in a 3-4.

I would argue that JPP is a bad 4-3 DE now. He has little speed around the corner and has had a hard time setting and maintaining the edge in the run game. He might be better as a 3-4 DE eating up blockers. He would line up in a 5 Technique ( head up on the Tackle ).

Tomlinson could be a 5 Tech DE as well with Snacks at the 0 Tech. OV can and has played OLB, Kennard could play inside or outside, Goodson strictly and ILB. I could see the Giants drafting a pass rushing OLB, would love Key in round 2.

the "we have to hire a coach with HC experience" thing...what if he just didn't do that good of a job as a head coach? How is being a head coach and not doing well any better than a really successful coordinator who hasn't had his opportunity yet?

at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs.

In comment 13784664 ryanmkeane said:

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the "we have to hire a coach with HC experience" thing...what if he just didn't do that good of a job as a head coach? How is being a head coach and not doing well any better than a really successful coordinator who hasn't had his opportunity yet?

There is nothing to understand because it makes no sense. And history has shown time and again, plenty of 1st time head coaches having success.

Whether or not you've had HC experience doesn't matter. You either have what it takes or you don't.

In comment 13784664 ryanmkeane said:

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the "we have to hire a coach with HC experience" thing...what if he just didn't do that good of a job as a head coach? How is being a head coach and not doing well any better than a really successful coordinator who hasn't had his opportunity yet?

I agree...and what's more, if the HC had a winning record, they would not be on the market.

Coughlin was a retread. Belicheck was a retread. There's no one path that guarantees good results. And there's the risk of it ending poorly with both new guys and retreads.

signing him while the Pats are still alive?

In comment 13784766 aka dbrny said:

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signing him while the Pats are still alive?

Yes.

He sets up his schemes differently for each opponent. That is the Patriots way. Its called "where is Waldo?" Where is the weakness in the other team that we need to exploit. Its is entirely different from the McAdoo "one size fits all and if it does not work blame the QB" approach. Remember what BB did against the Buffalo bills for us in SB 25? That is BB and why he is successful. This approach is ingrained into all of his assistant coaches and in particular the defensive coach. If MP become HC he will insist that the same approach be used on the offensive side of the ball while DG will be busy filling the holes on offense left by Reese... meaning fixing the o-line, and getting a feared RB weapon.

...that he hasn't done it before.

I'm no football guru and not trying to claim to be. But, my observation is that OV is at his least effectiveness when he is locked up with a 300lb+ tackle. Get him in space, and he can use his speed and leverage to his advantage. It seems going to a 3-4 would be ideal, at least for OV. Take his hand out of the dirt and let him move in all directions. Probably not ideal for JPP. What am I missing?

In comment 13784338 UConn4523 said:

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after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made.

Interesting observation but it loses some impact with Belichek being such a defensive guru himself. No doubt this guy has demonstrsaed smarts based on his academic background but so did Handley. Fine with the pick myself if he is the guy. Just hope we get one of them

In comment 13784791 Torrag said:

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...that he hasn't done it before.

Correct. Everything else is just noise. He's super smart, innovative and hungry. By all accounts the players love him. I can't think of a reason why anyone wouldn't like this hire if we were to make it outside of just wanting something to complain about.

In comment 13784814 TMS said:

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In comment 13784338 UConn4523 said: Quote: after the first month of the season when they were getting steamrolled. They played much better their next 11/12 games and you have to applaud the adjustments made. Interesting observation but it loses some impact with Belichek being such a defensive guru himself. No doubt this guy has demonstrsaed smarts based on his academic background but so did Handley. Fine with the pick myself if he is the guy. Just hope we get one of them

I hear you, but that would hold more weight if he was only a 1 or 2 year DC. Its year 6, I'm guessing BB leans on Patricia heavily and not just for analytics.

In comment 13784672 jeff57 said:

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at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs.

They could use Vernon the wAy they used LT. We always talk about the Giants back then as a 3-4 But LT rushed the passer 99% of the time. Only question is can OV play without his hand on the ground

Anyway it’s fun to speculate

In comment 13784844 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 13784672 jeff57 said: Quote: at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs. They could use Vernon the wAy they used LT. We always talk about the Giants back then as a 3-4 But LT rushed the passer 99% of the time. Only question is can OV play without his hand on the ground Anyway it’s fun to speculate

yes i believe OV can play without his hand in the ground...

it would look like this

JPP
Snacks
Tomlinson

Vernon
Goodson
K. Robinson if brought back
Kennard

i could think of SEVERAL guys in this draft we could and should take at LBer that would improve the front

In comment 13784875 BleedBlue said:

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In comment 13784844 Vanzetti said: Quote: In comment 13784672 jeff57 said: Quote: at this point. But don't know if Tomlinson could play end in a 3-4. Vernon and Kennard could play the OLBs. They could use Vernon the wAy they used LT. We always talk about the Giants back then as a 3-4 But LT rushed the passer 99% of the time. Only question is can OV play without his hand on the ground Anyway it’s fun to speculate yes i believe OV can play without his hand in the ground... it would look like this JPP Snacks Tomlinson Vernon Goodson K. Robinson if brought back Kennard i could think of SEVERAL guys in this draft we could and should take at LBer that would improve the front

I think they could play some 3-4 with minimal impact to the current D as you've outlined. There was a play in OVs first year here, a zone blitz, where he stayed with a TE 30 yards down field.

I will say that he sounds like an excellent candidate, and he has been with Bill long enough to understand how Bill goes about his business, understand one thing, there is no motivational or interpersonal qualities about Belichick that separates him, it is understanding how Bill goes about his business, and that takes intelligence and time, both which this man has. It does not guarantee anything, he still has to command the locker room, get the respect of his players and deal with the constant media pressure, but it sounds like he is worth giving him a shot at this.

Second, Belechick loved his time with the Giants, loved it, and there is no fucking way anyone with an ounce of brains would take the Lions job over the Giants job if they have any balls at all, so these reports of him favoring the Lions are ridiculous. And for those that are going to tell me they have a franchise QB, tell me how many playoff games he has won, tell me how many rings does the Lions franchise have? It is pure typical New York hatred from the jealous media as usual.

No 3-4 or 4-3

We will see though

But dipshit says they'll play nickel most of the game. Brilliant.

did not suit Eli .
I am no expert but Patricia looks to be a very focused coach whenever you see him he is young and been successful
I don't want some retread like Fox wants some fresh blood.

Last April made a top 10 most likely picks for our selection in the draft. He listed over 15 players in all. Not one of them was Evan Engram. Goes to show you how dialed in he and his sources are.

Doesn't sound right to me?

I want my generals to be called "Patton", MacArthur" .... "Stonewall (theres a name), .... Parcells !!!

He better be good .... ; )


IAS ... hoping for the best! Give 'em Patricia!

The only player who would really be out of position is JPP.

The thing is, though, JPP does not strike me as part of the long-term solution. My guess is we cut ties with him as soon as the cap hit makes sense. Too much wear and tear and he’s just not very good any more.

Tomlison as a 3-4 DE would be a question mark but I think he can pull it off.

I think OV and Kennard would thrive in a 3-4. Ditto Snacks and Goodson (if he can stay on the field).

In comment 13784780 Alwaysblue22 said:

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He sets up his schemes differently for each opponent. That is the Patriots way. Its called "where is Waldo?" Where is the weakness in the other team that we need to exploit. Its is entirely different from the McAdoo "one size fits all and if it does not work blame the QB" approach. Remember what BB did against the Buffalo bills for us in SB 25? That is BB and why he is successful. This approach is ingrained into all of his assistant coaches and in particular the defensive coach. If MP become HC he will insist that the same approach be used on the offensive side of the ball while DG will be busy filling the holes on offense left by Reese... meaning fixing the o-line, and getting a feared RB weapon.

Good post, hope you are right. What has been lacking here is coordinating our personnel to our schemes instead of just picking high measurable guys who flame out without getting a second contract.

It is worth pointing out that "can" and "should" are two different things.

Can you shoehorn JPP to 3-4 end? Sure, but you are likely better off finding a player that fits. (Setting aside JPPs play this past season)

Can you play Kennard inside? I guess, but why would you want to when he has the prototypical frame for OLB?

A lot of the discussion has focused on fitting square pegs into round holes because you can.

That said, with Patricia it likely won't be a straight up 3-4 but more of a hybrid, hopefully with versatile players for different packages.