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Patricia - Working without Stars

kash94 : 1/12/2018 11:26 am
One thing that's been consistently brought up on BBI with regards to Patricia has been his ability to produce good defenses without a ton of high-priced talent.

I looked through and tried to quantify this belief.

Defensive Rankings (PPG / YPG)
2012: 9 / 29
2013: 10 / 26
2014: 8 / 13
2015: 10 / 9
2016: 1 / 8
2017: 5/ 29

Percentage of Payroll Towards Defense (% / NFL Ranking)
2012: (couldn't find this)
2013: 32% / 24th
2014: 33% / 20th
2015: 26% / 27th
2016: 33% / 20th
2017: 34% / 19th

During this time period, they also traded away Chandler Jones + Collins.

Definitely some concerns with Patricia, but I thought this was impressive. If he becomes the Giants' head coach, he'd get to work with some higher paid veterans for the first time (Snacks, Jenkins, Vernon, etc).
Yeah but who is picking the  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/12/2018 11:28 am : link
groceries for Patricia. Not that I don't think DG can do well himself.

I hope some of the player personnel stuff has rubbed off on the Patricia or whoever it is.
zactly  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/12/2018 11:32 am : link
If Patricia comes here, he loses the Patriots s/w engineer who is the real reason for the Patriots success.....
RE: zactly  
DonQuixote : 1/12/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13784611 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
If Patricia comes here, he loses the Patriots s/w engineer who is the real reason for the Patriots success.....


You can make an argument like this for anyone that comes from a successful program. I think that making the best from the least, or turning a program around, is the best indicator of future success.

You can argue as the OP does that Patricia made the best of a mediocre lot. The best examples of coaches turning programs around are Parcells, Walsh, Belichik, and I would add Coughlin. A young guy by definition can't have that record (McDaniels does NOT have that record).

Anyway, you can always make a case against and I respect that...
Yea  
kash94 : 1/12/2018 11:45 am : link
I definitely get the concerns with Patricia but just looking at the 3 reported candidates left, everyone has a flaw.

McDaniels:
-How much of his success is due to Brady, Gronk, and BB?
-Stints in STL and Denver were awful

Shurmur
-Stint with Cleveland was bad.
-What type of offense will he run. If it's WCO, is that a good fit for the Giants?

The Giants have to go with one EOD...
Pattern?  
HoustonGiant : 1/12/2018 11:47 am : link
Defensive Rankings (PPG / YPG)
2012: 9 / 29
2013: 10 / 26
2014: 8 / 13
2015: 10 / 9
2016: 1 / 8
2017: 5/ 29


Bend but don't break??? Top 10 in points allowed is the only number that counts.
RE: Yea  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/12/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 13784641 kash94 said:
Quote:
I definitely get the concerns with Patricia but just looking at the 3 reported candidates left, everyone has a flaw.

McDaniels:
-How much of his success is due to Brady, Gronk, and BB?
-Stints in STL and Denver were awful

Shurmur
-Stint with Cleveland was bad.
-What type of offense will he run. If it's WCO, is that a good fit for the Giants?

The Giants have to go with one EOD...


People really kill Shurmur for the browns. He's probably the most successful guy they have had there in past 10 years. He won 9 games in 2 years in that terrible situation with some of the worst QBs ever.

Then he gets canned when the Haslem's buy the team from the previous owners. He got canned do to regime change at the top not because necessarily because of his coaching.
RE: RE: zactly  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/12/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13784621 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 13784611 I Love Clams Casino said:


Quote:


If Patricia comes here, he loses the Patriots s/w engineer who is the real reason for the Patriots success.....



You can make an argument like this for anyone that comes from a successful program. I think that making the best from the least, or turning a program around, is the best indicator of future success.

You can argue as the OP does that Patricia made the best of a mediocre lot. The best examples of coaches turning programs around are Parcells, Walsh, Belichik, and I would add Coughlin. A young guy by definition can't have that record (McDaniels does NOT have that record).

Anyway, you can always make a case against and I respect that...

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2018/01/sean_harrington_patriots_engin_1.html
click - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: zactly  
UConn4523 : 1/12/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13784673 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
In comment 13784621 DonQuixote said:


Quote:


In comment 13784611 I Love Clams Casino said:


Quote:


If Patricia comes here, he loses the Patriots s/w engineer who is the real reason for the Patriots success.....



You can make an argument like this for anyone that comes from a successful program. I think that making the best from the least, or turning a program around, is the best indicator of future success.

You can argue as the OP does that Patricia made the best of a mediocre lot. The best examples of coaches turning programs around are Parcells, Walsh, Belichik, and I would add Coughlin. A young guy by definition can't have that record (McDaniels does NOT have that record).

Anyway, you can always make a case against and I respect that...


http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2018/01/sean_harrington_patriots_engin_1.html click - ( New Window )


I'm just glad you are so sure of what makes the Patriots a great franchise. Hopefully they offer you a job to keep up the good work.
Defense is much easier when...  
EricJ : 1/12/2018 12:26 pm : link
you have a solid idea as to what your opponent is going to do. The pre game preparation in many instances is much more important than having a pro bowler on the defense. You can add better players to a roster but if you call a defense that puts them out of position, you will not be very effective.
Itís just to hard to get a read on this guy  
Rflairr : 1/12/2018 12:31 pm : link
Because Belichick is there. Risky
You all may not remember  
Joey in VA : 1/12/2018 12:32 pm : link
Because we had LT and some terrorizing front 7 players, but Belichick's core philosophy is bend but don't break with a 3-4 cover 2 shell that works like an umbrella. The closer you get to the goal line, the smaller that window to work is in so you will yield yards over the middle but as the field shrinks those areas shrink and make it more difficult to score.
RE: You all may not remember  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/12/2018 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13784701 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Because we had LT and some terrorizing front 7 players, but Belichick's core philosophy is bend but don't break with a 3-4 cover 2 shell that works like an umbrella. The closer you get to the goal line, the smaller that window to work is in so you will yield yards over the middle but as the field shrinks those areas shrink and make it more difficult to score.


and the numbers shown here in YPG vs. PPG bear that out
RE: RE: RE: RE: zactly  
I Love Clams Casino : 1/12/2018 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13784674 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13784673 I Love Clams Casino said:


( New Window )



I'm just glad you are so sure of what makes the Patriots a great franchise. Hopefully they offer you a job to keep up the good work.


Well, thanks!
RE: You all may not remember  
Greg from LI : 1/12/2018 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13784701 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Because we had LT and some terrorizing front 7 players, but Belichick's core philosophy is bend but don't break with a 3-4 cover 2 shell that works like an umbrella. The closer you get to the goal line, the smaller that window to work is in so you will yield yards over the middle but as the field shrinks those areas shrink and make it more difficult to score.


I can still remember John Madden breaking the defense down that way on the telestrator during SCI.

Probably because I've watched that game a few hundred times.
Picking  
PaulN : 1/12/2018 3:45 pm : link
The next coach is not a science, there is not anyone that is a sure bet, we just have to hope they hired a good man in Gettleman, and he knows what he is doing and picks the right guy. Mara gets final say but he is not going to go against Gettleman, that is his hire. WE just have to hope he knows what he is doing, and hope Gettleman was a good hire, I think he may be but with no real information other then the Giants record when he was here and the Panthers record when he was there, that all looks very good, so there is the hope.
RE: zactly  
Craigg619 : 1/12/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13784611 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
If Patricia comes here, he loses the Patriots s/w engineer who is the real reason for the Patriots success.....


So should teams never hire coaches from great organizations because they can't bring the decision maker with them? Seems odd.
How much is time of possession  
SHO'NUFF : 1/12/2018 8:19 pm : link
by Tom Brady? How many 3 and outs?
working without stars?  
jbeintherockies : 1/12/2018 8:30 pm : link
Seriously? MP has Belichick to go to for answers. Take Belichick out of the picture and I really doubt you see the same results.

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