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Trent Dillfer on Josh Rosen

Jolly Blue Giant : 1/12/2018 8:27 pm
This was posted by Art Stapleton. It’s a really interesting take.
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This is old news...  
bw in dc : 1/12/2018 11:31 pm : link
Go watch the Elite11 on youtube when Rosen was there. He created the most stir. Dilfer's staff couldn't figure the guy out. Some loved him, others couldn't stand the prick. But almost unanimously they thought he had a brilliant football mind...Despite all the backlash it created, Rosen still went back to help Dilfer in his camp. So that shows some maturity.

It's almost best that the Jints don't draft him because the NY media will go into overdrive to get under the guy's skin. It'll be target practice, and relentless.

I love his skill set, but there is a Sam Bradford element (injuries) and Cutler element (potentially prickly attitude) that could limit the ceiling.

This is why Darnold is the safer pick...
RE: They're athletes, not role-models. Superstars with an ability  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2018 11:38 pm : link
In comment 13785477 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
to do things very few can do. Nothing more and nothing less.

Role-models should be your Mom or Dad...


I agree with you. I think it sucks that the "media" is even a part of the landscape here.
RE: Everybody has problems...even some demons. I am talking about  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/12/2018 11:41 pm : link
In comment 13785469 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
the guy that dominated the game for well over a decade...
- won 7 World Series with the Yankees
- was an All-Star 16 of his 20 seasons
- 500+ home runs
- arguably the greatest offensive outfielder in MLB history
- and could steal a base and run down a deep ball with the best of them just to round out his game

He was The Mick...


And he don’t pay no Sonny Colegnero’s rent either
RE: He's got...  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/12/2018 11:47 pm : link
In comment 13785344 Zepp said:
Quote:
Ryan Leaf written all over him.

If its not Darnold draft Barkley and try to win.


If that's the case Rather trade down to 5 or 6 if possible. Get the remaining Barkley Fitzpatrick or Nelson.

I'm as nervous about concussions and his injury history as any off field stuff
RE: He's got...  
Mr. Bungle : 1/13/2018 12:00 am : link
In comment 13785344 Zepp said:
Quote:
Ryan Leaf written all over him.

He absolutely, positively, most certainly does NOT.
The problem is  
allstarjim : 1/13/2018 12:12 am : link
He has no real mobility now and he'll have even less when he is 30.

The NFL currently are not getting a lot of great pass protectors, but they are getting a lot of elite pass rushers. Nearly every team has at least one. Very difficult now to win in the NFL as a pure pocket QB because you don't get pure pockets.

You have to at least buy time with the legs. And I know everyone is going to talk about Brady and Matt Ryan and so on. But it makes no sense to me to automatically start with a guy with a pretty big limitation in that regard. I don't think you need a guy to run around like Russell Wilson, but you do need a guy that can move around and avoid pressure, buy some time and make plays. Darnold can do that, so can Allen and Mayfield. I do not believe Rosen can, and that isn't going to get better as he ages.
RE: 2 concussions ...  
BigBluDawg : 1/13/2018 12:17 am : link
In comment 13785347 jbeintherockies said:
Quote:
... that we know of.


Didn't Aaron Rodgers have concussion issues and they designed him a fancy new helmet and he hasn't suffered them since "that we know of", I'm pretty sure the team that drafts Rosen could do the same.
RE: The problem is  
Milton : 1/13/2018 5:29 am : link
In comment 13785506 allstarjim said:
Quote:
He has no real mobility now and he'll have even less when he is 30.
This isn't true. Maybe not as much as Aaron Rodgers or a young Roethlisberger, but at least as much as Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ryan, and a very long list of successful NFL pocket passers who weren't a big threat to run. I would liken him to the early years of Joe Montana (when it comes to mobility), if you're old enough to remember those days.
The Thought That The Media in NY...  
Jim in Tampa : 1/13/2018 5:46 am : link
Will get under Rosen's skin or "destroy" him is absurd.

Destroy him for what reason exactly? Because he's a smart guy that demands excellence from himself and others? Sounds like a New Yorker to me.

Get used to it guys. Unless Cleveland surprises everyone and picks him instead of Darnold, Rosen will be the Giants' pick.
100% Completion Rate - ( New Window )
Josh Rosen is the best QB prospect in the draft  
Milton : 1/13/2018 6:01 am : link
The Browns have a need at QB, so it would stand to reason that the Giants have no shot at Rosen except for the fact that Rosen is making it known that he would rather not be selected #1 overall if it means going to Cleveland.

An added wrinkle is that the Browns GM, Dorsey, has been quoted as advising "stay away" from Rosen in an article that was published while Dorsey was between jobs. Whether those were his true feelings or just some gamesmanship, it gives Rosen a legitimate excuse to "boycott" them when it comes to invites for an interview, workout, etc., without being accused of being spoiled or entitled. It will be interesting to see how Dorsey handles questions about the quote (I've yet to hear his response to being "outed" but he is sure to be questioned about it until he comes clean).

But just because it might be problematic for the Browns to select Rosen, doesn't mean they won't do it or trade away the pick to another team that will. Two things have to happen for this not to be the case...

1) There needs to be another QB on the same level as Rosen. He doesn't have to be Rosen's equal, but he needs to be close enough that the Browns won't want to risk losing out on him with the #4 overall pick, and also close enough that the Browns won't know for sure who the Giants like best at QB. We don't want a repeat of what happened in 2004 when the Chargers were able to score a bundle in trade from the Giants and still came away with the QB they preferred (Rivers) all because Accorsi had shown his hand for all the world to see.

2) If there isn't another QB prospect on Rosen's level, then there needs to be a non-QB prospect (i.e, Barkley) who stands out above the other non-QB prospects. This would make the Browns less willing to trade out of the top spot with the Broncos or Jets because they would be risking the loss of that guy to Indy with the third overall pick. And this is again another reason for the Giants to keep their thoughts to themselves (QB? RB? DE? OL? Only Gettleman's hairdresser knows for sure!).

Barring those two things, I would expect the Browns to either select Rosen (and deal with the war of wills to follow) or trade the pick to a team willing to pay a high price for a QB that's head and shoulders above the rest. So I'll be rooting like hell for Darnold and Barkley to blow away the scouting community during the combine and pro days up ahead.
RE: Namath  
jeff57 : 1/13/2018 6:36 am : link
In comment 13785439 David B. said:
Quote:
would suck in NY too.


And Reggie Jackson, forget it. Would never make it.
The fact that Rosen is opinionated and outspoken...  
Milton : 1/13/2018 6:44 am : link
...does not make him a poor match for NYC and its media. What makes for a poor match is someone who is stupid, naive, insecure, and/or defensive. At this point there is no reason to believe Rosen is any of those things.
RE: The fact that Rosen is opinionated and outspoken...  
jeff57 : 1/13/2018 7:05 am : link
In comment 13785533 Milton said:
Quote:
...does not make him a poor match for NYC and its media. What makes for a poor match is someone who is stupid, naive, insecure, and/or defensive. At this point there is no reason to believe Rosen is any of those things.


Yes, if any of the top QBs could deal with NY, it’s Rosen.
Interesting how some of you want Rosen so badly  
Brown Recluse : 1/13/2018 8:01 am : link
that you deny there is a media issue in NY in spite of everything you’ve just witnessed this season. Denying reality doesnt make your wishes come true. This isnt Disney World.
RE: Interesting how some of you want Rosen so badly  
Milton : 1/13/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 13785556 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
that you deny there is a media issue in NY in spite of everything you’ve just witnessed this season. Denying reality doesnt make your wishes come true. This isnt Disney World.
Seems to me the exact opposite is true: some of you are so opposed to Rosen that you conjure up issues with no basis in reality.
RE: RE: He's got...  
Zepp : 1/13/2018 8:27 am : link
In comment 13785373 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13785344 Zepp said:


Quote:


Ryan Leaf written all over him.

If its not Darnold draft Barkley and try to win.



so, Trent Dilfer, who knows him well and has supervised him, says he has a demanding personality like Peyton Manning, and that leads you to conclude, he is not like Peyton Manning but Ryan Leaf?


Yeah thats half of what he said. He also said half the people are going to hate him because of his personality. How do you think that is going to work with the NY media?
RE: Rosen does NOT equal Leaf. Totally different.Leaf was the high ceiling  
Zepp : 1/13/2018 8:29 am : link
In comment 13785392 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
guy but unpolished. Needed a lot of work. More like Darnold or Allen.

Rosen is the high floor guy. Injury history is a big problem. Knees and concussions are the worst risk for a QB. Better to have broken some bones.


Bullshit. Leaf had all the attributes you wanted in a QB. No one ever foresaw or at least publicly noted that he was an immature man baby which is EXACTLY what Rosen sounds like he is. Typical Millennial.
RE: RE: Namath  
Zepp : 1/13/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 13785444 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13785439 David B. said:


Quote:


would suck in NY too.



Not sure if you meant this in a funny way, but that's probably true. And the same is true for Mantle based on what was written of his issues. Namath would've gotten destroyed for the guarantee, for the womanizing persona, etc. Mantle for his drinking.


Except Namath only became a celebrity AFTER he was in NY. Coming out of Alabama he did not have the reputation of playboy. Also if you know anything about Namath he was more on the conservative side while in college. He only became Namath in NY when he embraced his celebrity.
Rosen's questionable mobility has less to do with escapability  
idinkido : 1/13/2018 8:32 am : link
and has more to do with Rosen who doesn't give up on a passing play and will stand in willing to take a big hit. So: Do you clap Rosen on the back for hanging in there or do you say moron get rid of the ball?
RE: RE: 2 concussions ...  
Zepp : 1/13/2018 8:34 am : link
In comment 13785509 BigBluDawg said:
Quote:
In comment 13785347 jbeintherockies said:


Quote:


... that we know of.



Didn't Aaron Rodgers have concussion issues and they designed him a fancy new helmet and he hasn't suffered them since "that we know of", I'm pretty sure the team that drafts Rosen could do the same.


Helmets don't stop concussions
Time will tell  
NikkiMac : 1/13/2018 8:34 am : link
but if anyone Darnold looks like a Ryan Leaf more to me but you never know But watching Darnold he does not look ready for the NFL of course none of us knows for sure.
RE: RE: Rosen does NOT equal Leaf. Totally different.Leaf was the high ceiling  
Milton : 1/13/2018 8:45 am : link
In comment 13785573 Zepp said:
Quote:
Leaf had all the attributes you wanted in a QB. No one ever foresaw or at least publicly noted that he was an immature man baby which is EXACTLY what Rosen sounds like he is. Typical Millennial.
Rosen is anything but a typical millennial. He has worked hard at everything he has pursued and achieved success. He may have been born into a wealthy family, but wealth didn't make him one of the top junior tennis players in the country, wealth didn't make him a straight A student, wealth didn't make him the top QB recruit in the country, and wealth isn't the reason he succeeded at UCLA both on the field and in the class room.

Of all the college QBs in the country, he is the one who is said to be the most NFL ready, the one with the best footwork and the best mechanics. Why is that? It wasn't handed to him, he worked at it. And he must've been a pretty coachable kid, too, or all the work in the world wouldn't matter much.
Rosen  
RetroJint : 1/13/2018 8:49 am : link
will be a Giant unless the Browns take him first .
Milton is right!  
idinkido : 1/13/2018 8:53 am : link
Rosen's skill set proves he's coachable.
RE: Time will tell  
jeff57 : 1/13/2018 9:02 am : link
In comment 13785577 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
but if anyone Darnold looks like a Ryan Leaf more to me but you never know But watching Darnold he does not look ready for the NFL of course none of us knows for sure.


Yeah, his footwork is terrible.
The  
Sammo85 : 1/13/2018 9:31 am : link
Rosen-Bashing on this site has really gotten ridiculous and bordering on insanity, if not insulting to him and those who have some modicum or intelligence.

Darnold is by far the greater risk from a football standpoint. Mechanics are sloppy, footwork is as well. He has a strong arm and can extend plays but I see a strong lack of football IQ with how he handles running an offense and he has a tendency to not read the pocket well. Ball security and decision making can be improved by coaching but all the other attributes can be tough to mold or rework.

If I had the #1 pick I would take Rosen, not Darnold. I might not even take Darnold second or third. The more and more I watch back on some of his tape the more concerned and troubled I am with him. He needs a lot of work to translate into a high impact QB at the NFL level. I watched a few of his games last year and while he was productive, some troubling things from a mechanics standpoint are still very pronounced.
Lets get one thing straight  
twostepgiants : 1/13/2018 10:00 am : link
Ryan Leaf was a bust because what was going on his head. It was not his talent.

Report at the time was that the Colts put a $1 bill in the playbook. That they gave to Peyton & Leaf. Peyton returned the $1 and gave a detailed breakdown of the play with the bill on it. Leaf returned the playbook with the $1 still in it.

Neither Rosen or Darnold will bust like Ryan Leaf. They are both intelligent, hard working and determined football players.

In addition, Leaf has been arrested numerous times for burglary & drugs. This is not Rosen & Darnold.

Wentz  
Tim in JTown : 1/13/2018 10:03 am : link
If the Giants are going to compete in the East, we need to find an answer to Wentz. I'm not sure we will have the talent to outshoot the Eagles anytime soon, unless the offense returns to 2015 standards.

Can Rosen be the equalizer to Wentz?

I'd be looking at a way to neutralize Wentz with my first rounder if it's there. Might be Bradley Chubb or Minkah Fitzgerald. Might be Mayfield as he offers a more diverse skill set.
The thing about Rosen  
Powerclean765 : 1/13/2018 10:11 am : link
is he’s the safest pick of all the QBs. He’s 6’5”ish, big arm & he will KILL IT at the chalkboard. He already sees the field & reads defenses like an NFL QB. He delivers the ball accurately & on time. Running QBs always have the sexy triangle numbers but it’s actually pocket passing that is required in the NFL - running QBs are a bad thing. Always there, tempting like Sirens.

Rosen is a skilled pocket passer, far advanced from any other QB in this draft at that which barely gets noticed in college Spread Land. The pocket passing makes him very attractive to NFL teams particularly those looking for power running/play action style. Thats what wins in the NFL.
RE: The Thought That The Media in NY...  
ThatLimerickGuy : 1/13/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 13785524 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
Will get under Rosen's skin or "destroy" him is absurd.

Destroy him for what reason exactly? Because he's a smart guy that demands excellence from himself and others? Sounds like a New Yorker to me.

Get used to it guys. Unless Cleveland surprises everyone and picks him instead of Darnold, Rosen will be the Giants' pick. 100% Completion Rate - ( New Window )



Point is going right over your head.

It's because the kid already before stepping foot into the NFL is looking to being a lightning rod for the media regarding non-football related topics.

It would be a bloodbath. Every time a hot topic came up they would run to his locker for a soundbite.
RE: RE: The Thought That The Media in NY...  
jeff57 : 1/13/2018 10:24 am : link
In comment 13785657 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13785524 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


Will get under Rosen's skin or "destroy" him is absurd.

Destroy him for what reason exactly? Because he's a smart guy that demands excellence from himself and others? Sounds like a New Yorker to me.

Get used to it guys. Unless Cleveland surprises everyone and picks him instead of Darnold, Rosen will be the Giants' pick. 100% Completion Rate - ( New Window )




Point is going right over your head.

It's because the kid already before stepping foot into the NFL is looking to being a lightning rod for the media regarding non-football related topics.

It would be a bloodbath. Every time a hot topic came up they would run to his locker for a soundbite.


Yeah? Doesn’t mean he’d always respond. And how would that affect his performance on the field?
RE: RE: The Thought That The Media in NY...  
Milton : 1/13/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13785657 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
It would be a bloodbath. Every time a hot topic came up they would run to his locker for a soundbite.
I don't understand why that would result in a blood bath. He's not an idiot.
Rosen  
WillVAB : 1/13/2018 10:38 am : link
I’ve been in the trade down camp but wouldn’t flip out if Rosen is the pick. I just don’t think it’s the best decision for the Giants all things considered.

I think he’s the best QB in the draft — and if the class is loaded as some people believe, and Rosen is the best/stays healthy, the Giants should be in a good spot after a smart rebuild.
RE: The thing about Rosen  
bw in dc : 1/13/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13785654 Powerclean765 said:
Quote:
is he’s the safest pick of all the QBs.


With his injury history, you statement doesn’t holdup. Rosen has had multiple concussions and shoulder surgery on his throwing side.

He may be more Sam Bradford than Peyton Manning.

So the actual safest pick is Sam Darnold. A clean bill of health, a great arm, mobility, and more production.
RE: RE: The thing about Rosen  
Milton : 1/13/2018 10:56 am : link
In comment 13785700 bw in dc said:
Quote:

So the actual safest pick is Sam Darnold. A clean bill of health, a great arm, mobility, and more production.
If you're the Browns you can add in the fact that Darnold would be happy to be chosen by them. Leaving Rosen to be chosen by Big Blue. Everybody goes home happy!
RE: RE: Josh Rosen may wind up being good  
Sonic Youth : 1/13/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 13785426 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13785408 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


But it won't be in NY.

The media would destroy him.

Remember that this is the guy who got invited to play a Trump golf course and wore a F*** TRUMP hat and didn't see the problem with it when given the chance to step back from it a bit. It has nothing to do with his politics either but in NY you can't be that guy.



It's sad that the only reason there's any truth to this is because people insist on eating up the shit coverage that gets sold in this town.


LOL give me a break. I love how you pretend you are bothered on a non-partisan level by this, considering we've all read your posts and know where you stand.

NYC media would 100% NOT "eat him up" for wearing a Fuck Trump hat.
I don’t really care what Rosen’s  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/13/2018 12:17 pm : link
political afflications are.

I’m 29 and Rosen just seems like a gigantic fucking dickhead. I’m sure the rumors of his UCLA teammates disliking him don’t come from thin air.

He’s not very mobile and he’s injuried all the time. The concussion history should make him the reason not to pick him.
RE: RE: RE: Josh Rosen may wind up being good  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13785727 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 13785426 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13785408 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


But it won't be in NY.

The media would destroy him.

Remember that this is the guy who got invited to play a Trump golf course and wore a F*** TRUMP hat and didn't see the problem with it when given the chance to step back from it a bit. It has nothing to do with his politics either but in NY you can't be that guy.



It's sad that the only reason there's any truth to this is because people insist on eating up the shit coverage that gets sold in this town.



LOL give me a break. I love how you pretend you are bothered on a non-partisan level by this, considering we've all read your posts and know where you stand.

NYC media would 100% NOT "eat him up" for wearing a Fuck Trump hat.


"Where I stand" on what? I think you're confusing my posts for someone else. I haven't gotten into any discussion whatsoever over the President on any part of this site.
RE: RE: The problem is  
allstarjim : 1/13/2018 3:47 pm : link
In comment 13785522 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13785506 allstarjim said:


Quote:


He has no real mobility now and he'll have even less when he is 30.

This isn't true. Maybe not as much as Aaron Rodgers or a young Roethlisberger, but at least as much as Brady, Peyton, Eli, Ryan, and a very long list of successful NFL pocket passers who weren't a big threat to run. I would liken him to the early years of Joe Montana (when it comes to mobility), if you're old enough to remember those days.


You mean AT LEAST as much as gazelles Peyton, Eli, and Tom Brady?! WOW! ;)

That's my point. I know, a good argument would be that both Tom Brady and Matt Ryan were in the Super Bowl last year. And that both are still in it this year. But I do feel like that escapability attribute is increasingly important for the reasons I stated above, and the most successful QBs will be mobile ones.

I  
AcidTest : 1/13/2018 3:48 pm : link
think his injury history will preclude the Giants taking him. Assuming the Browns feel similarly and therefore take Darnold, that leaves Allen, Barkley, or a trade down. I would prefer a trade down, but am fine with any of those choices.
It doesn’t get more immobile  
UConn4523 : 1/13/2018 4:06 pm : link
than Eli and Brady, so yeah, that isn’t saying much..
My ONLY concern with Rosen is the concussions.  
Section331 : 1/13/2018 5:00 pm : link
Other than that, I have zero concerns. The best pure passer in the draft, and don’t buy the “he’s a statue” bullshit. He’s a pocket passer, which the NFL wants, but he’s much more athletic than some want to acknowledge. He’s certainly not Lamar Jackson, or even Sam Darnold, but he can move.
Rosen is our guy  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2018 6:12 pm : link
go get him...
RE: Rosen is our guy  
chopperhatch : 1/13/2018 6:21 pm : link
In comment 13786233 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
go get him...


God you're a meatball
RE: RE: Rosen is our guy  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2018 6:26 pm : link
In comment 13786242 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13786233 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


go get him...



God you're a meatball


meatball? Snappy. Your mother wears army boots...
RE: RE: RE: Rosen is our guy  
chopperhatch : 1/13/2018 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13786252 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13786242 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 13786233 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


go get him...



God you're a meatball



meatball? Snappy. Your mother wears army boots...


Wasn't meant to be snappy. It was a nicer way of saying "you're a fucking idiot Googs."
Awful  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2018 6:59 pm : link
and rude...



RE: Awful  
chopperhatch : 1/13/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 13786309 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and rude...




Says the dickhead who just talked about my mother. Lol, thanks for proving my point.
Rude and no class  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2018 9:29 am : link
no way to go through life son...
Aaron Rodgers  
Pete in MD : 1/14/2018 10:08 am : link
doesn't get along with everyone either, including many of his teammates.
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