we are. I remember TC's intro PC and how I felt after hearing him speak about what he was going to do and then BM's PC which seemed very strange from the weird suit to just something missing.
I am curious to how this will be. Hoping for the best and really looking to see what we do with our own players (signed, released, traded) and then where we may go in FA and the Draft.
of Pat Shurmur arriving and meeting employees... https://twitter.com/Giants/status/956874385486372866 - ( New Window )
Awesome! Hes got that monotone voice. Something we have to get used to. Todd Bowles is the same way, very calm and monotone. Hopefully he get the attention of the team when he needs to! Bettcher on the other hand will command a room. I hope he can kick the defense in the ass.
about a 5th super bowl or whatever. I want to hear about building a winning culture that the Giants used to have. About building a true team and what that feels and looks like. Bringing back that professional attitude that leads to winning.
Sport shirt? What is this? "Meet the Captain Night" on a cruise?
How can he hope to be seen as serious and successful. Should've kept McAdoo.
I know you're kidding but he does have a tie on now. He's not wearing what I posted above. Looks very sharp and professional unlike the last clown who showed up in a 5XL suit jacket.
No more serious whipping boy than Quinn. Special teams are the canary in the coalmine of a roster- indication of serious speed and talent deficiencies. I hope they can Quinn just so some of you can move on to a new whipping boy.
No more serious whipping boy than Quinn. Special teams are the canary in the coalmine of a roster- indication of serious speed and talent deficiencies. I hope they can Quinn just so some of you can move on to a new whipping boy.
Quinn is already out, we have a ST coach and ST assistant.
No more serious whipping boy than Quinn. Special teams are the canary in the coalmine of a roster- indication of serious speed and talent deficiencies. I hope they can Quinn just so some of you can move on to a new whipping boy.
They've already hired a new ST coordinator days ago. Where the fuck have some of you been?
Sport shirt? What is this? "Meet the Captain Night" on a cruise?
How can he hope to be seen as serious and successful. Should've kept McAdoo.
I know you're kidding but he does have a tie on now. He's not wearing what I posted above. Looks very sharp and professional unlike the last clown who showed up in a 5XL suit jacket.
Purple? Well ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I was getting concerned.
answer on 3-4 vs. 4-3 isn't going to sit well with those who want a clean answer.
What did he say? I totally missed it.
He essentially said that you see 3 man fronts regardless of base and that most teams mix it up a bit and it sounds like we will too.
My assumption is that we're going to probably move to more of a 3-4 but that we're still going to use 4-3 alignments at times and do some hybrid stuff. As we should.
Don't get me wrong. I get it. But based on the number of 3-4 threads on this site, many fans won't be happy until the Giants officially announce they made a change (which they won't...game has changed).
sounds like there will be major changes on the OL. It may be a two year project, but it starts now. No more tinkering. It will be a wholesale revamping. Eli can still succeed, but he's immobile, so a better OL is a must.
He talked about how defenses are multiple now and they won't be pegged into one thing.
Gotcha. I think the base will be a 3-4 but as you said defenses are so multiple you do end up with 5-2, it's just what gaps and what players fill those 5 slots up front.
RE: Hearing Shurmur does put McAdoo in perspective
comment regarding the QB position is telling regarding his input on a potential QB selection come draft day.
I noticed and liked that, too. Good stuff.
I don't like to read too much into what people say, especially at an introductory presser, but I would think that description of what he likes in a QB would play into a decision on guys like Mayfield for instance.
Big Blue Interactive
@BigBlueInteract
8s9 seconds ago
Shurmur on offensive background: some West Coast Offense, some Chip Kelly up-tempo, strong running game in Minnesota which allows play action, use screen game.
.he is and adult, he is also not going to take any shit. It's the even keeled ones that get it done. A little bit of BB. also don't let the door hit you on the way out for players who have there own agenda
Big Blue Interactive
@BigBlueInteract
8s9 seconds ago
Shurmur on offensive background: some West Coast Offense, some Chip Kelly up-tempo, strong running game in Minnesota which allows play action, use screen game.
I like this answer. He's not tied to one way of playing, i.e. *HIS SYSTEM*. Smart.
I see what Gettleman meant when he said he was an adult. He's in charge, he's honest, he has a plan and he is competitive. He didn't duck any questions and made it clear that he'll be communicative and open as best as he can, I think that is a big big change from the secret squirrel crap Reese and McAdoo tried to pull over.
It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
Don't get me wrong. I get it. But based on the number of 3-4 threads on this site, many fans won't be happy until the Giants officially announce they made a change (which they won't...game has changed).
But his answer was a legitimate answer. It would still be a change. Pkus, having a new person gameplanning and calling plays.
This is the most excited I've been in a Giants offseason in a long time. This whole new regime is saying the right things with the right tone, attitude, and focus. It's still way early, butt it seems like they got it right with the GM and coach.Now they have to knock it out of the park with the draft.
I respect how he came out and sent a warning to Apple and Flowers saying he wouldn't tolerate players who don't work hard, who quit, or who have no respect.
He clearly was talking about Flowers in terms of offensive linemen on the roster who need to be motivated who haven't lived up to their potential yet.
He is more than capable of handling the NY media. Reading between the lines, it seemed like he was talking about JPP, when he spoke about a DE, being more then his sack totals. Loved what he had to say about OBJ, and his intimation on what it means to be a NY Giant. Also reiterated JR's mantra about consistently acquiring talent for the D line. Unlike Reese, he included the O-line. What a breath of fresh air.
I thought he said something eluding to Flowers moving somewhere else on the line. Maybe Im reaching. Ill have to read the transcript.
I don't think he said that he was referring to a potential answer on the OL that is already on the roster but might need motivation or something like that.
It's not a change. The Giants - like most if not all teams - have been multiple on defense for years.
My point is fans are not paying attention to what is going on during football games. They have preconceived notions that are not true.
Eric, they have not been that MULTIPLE at all. Our LB'ers are proof one of that. I suspect we will see more LB'ers who can put their hand down and less asking DE's to drop. So a m,ore 3-4 in concept will be the case. What he said about Nickel though could really mean a more 3-4 like look but with a more hybrid S/LB as part of that., A guy who could rush or cover.
We have been far more strictly 4 man front (regardless of the back 7 make up) than what you are saying here. JPP and OV dropped some but that is not the same as having them standing up and playing that way 40% or more of the time.
It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
I just don't understand how anyone can draw conclusions from a couple of press conferences. What is everyone expecting these guys to say? We are happy he said the oline is important? What was everyone expecting him to say, "I don't care about the oline?" Same with qb, are you all expecting them to say manning is done and we are taking a qb early? Why give up any potential ammunition to trade up or down?
Also, I could infer from gettlemens comments that they are taking a qb when he mentions how difficult it is to find one in this league and ending up in qb hell. You think both of these guys are gonna tie their careers to a late third round pick from a gm who was notorious for failed picks in rounds 2-5 or an aging qb at the end of his time? They understand he value if a franchise qb. If they don't take one in this draft, expect them to trade multiple first round picks for a qb who may not even be Darnold/Rosen in the next draft or two. Which will make some of you freak out even more.
I disagree. Spags had ends play at tackle, had ends standing up. Had DL's dropping into coverage. Had linebackers (Kennard) rushing from a down position. Used his safeties and corners in various fashions.
on anyone's parade - and I'm not an anti-Shumur guy - but many of us were saying the same types of things two years ago when McAdoo was announced.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
I am not giddy at all and proof is shown not told. BUt, BM sucked as a coach and his PC was borderline comical. I think DG's involvement says times will be different regardless.
I see what Gettleman meant when he said he was an adult. He's in charge, he's honest, he has a plan and he is competitive. He didn't duck any questions and made it clear that he'll be communicative and open as best as he can, I think that is a big big change from the secret squirrel crap Reese and McAdoo tried to pull over.
It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
I just don't understand how anyone can draw conclusions from a couple of press conferences. What is everyone expecting these guys to say? We are happy he said the oline is important? What was everyone expecting him to say, "I don't care about the oline?" Same with qb, are you all expecting them to say manning is done and we are taking a qb early? Why give up any potential ammunition to trade up or down?
Also, I could infer from gettlemens comments that they are taking a qb when he mentions how difficult it is to find one in this league and ending up in qb hell. You think both of these guys are gonna tie their careers to a late third round pick from a gm who was notorious for failed picks in rounds 2-5 or an aging qb at the end of his time? They understand he value if a franchise qb. If they don't take one in this draft, expect them to trade multiple first round picks for a qb who may not even be Darnold/Rosen in the next draft or two. Which will make some of you freak out even more.
I heard that he mumbled under his breath, to someone after the press conference, that Rosen is a china doll.....:)
RE: They obviously have no desire to trade or get rid of Beckham.
Yeah what could Shurmur possibly due for a terrible QB like Eli Manning? He went to the NFC championship game with former UDFA journeyman Case Keenum who had a career season but yeah I am sure he can't do anything with a two time superbowl MVP future HOF QB.
So is anyone unhappy that the Giants didnt hire the guy who
You must have missed the part where after he talked about building a relationship with him, Shurmur said something to the effect of talking to him about how a New York Giant player will carry himself.
Very subtle, very meaningful.
Don't forget Shurmur was in Minnesota last year and got to witness one of Beckham's tantrums first hand.
That shit is going to be cut out fast.
RE: RE: They obviously have no desire to trade or get rid of Beckham.
You must have missed the part where after he talked about building a relationship with him, Shurmur said something to the effect of talking to him about how a New York Giant player will carry himself.
Very subtle, very meaningful.
Don't forget Shurmur was in Minnesota last year and got to witness one of Beckham's tantrums first hand.
That shit is going to be cut out fast.
What 'shit'? He's not going anywhere. Deal with it.
on anyone's parade - and I'm not an anti-Shumur guy - but many of us were saying the same types of things two years ago when McAdoo was announced.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
Why? Eric giddy is good, let people be excited and happy. It's OK Eric, you can be excited too. It is better to get excited and burned than to never be excited at all. Happy is good. Put me in with excited and happy.
considering majority of coaches/personnel dept folks have left. Are DG/PS able to view any tape that isn't game tape from last year? Do practices not get recorded for review later? I would assume that to be the case and the new brass can take a look to get a feel for someone like Webb.
I'm optimistic. (You have to be at this point or there would be no reason to subject yourself to more horrific football). But I'm too old to blindly say, "Yea!!! Change for the sake of change!!!"
Watching this offseason will be fascinating and fun, but whether this can get turned around remains to been seen. A lot of moving parts (GM, HC, QB, defense, OL, Beckham, etc).
self-assured, seemed comfortable in his own skin (and his own suit; sorry, couldn't help myself), not much rah, rah coach-speak, good manner with the media, seems to be a sense of humor lurking in his demeanor. And when he said he wasn't "intimidated," it was entirely credible. Nice start for Coach Shurmur.
on anyone's parade - and I'm not an anti-Shumur guy - but many of us were saying the same types of things two years ago when McAdoo was announced.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
Why? Eric giddy is good, let people be excited and happy. It's OK Eric, you can be excited too. It is better to get excited and burned than to never be excited at all. Happy is good. Put me in with excited and happy.
It's not a change. The Giants - like most if not all teams - have been multiple on defense for years.
My point is fans are not paying attention to what is going on during football games. They have preconceived notions that are not true.
Exactly right! I've pointed out in previous threads that a lot of posters have preconceived notions on most topics (particularly with respect to who we should/shouldn't draft with the #2 pick) and selectively post facts that support their argument while ignoring any that don't fit their preconceived notions
I respect how he came out and sent a warning to Apple and Flowers saying he wouldn't tolerate players who don't work hard, who quit, or who have no respect.
He clearly was talking about Flowers in terms of offensive linemen on the roster who need to be motivated who haven't lived up to their potential yet.
I don't think his warning was specifically for 1 or 2 players. I think it was for everyone. Flowers and Apple were not the only players who had perceived lapses in effort this past season.
Belichick wore a suit that fit to all of his intros, even the
I disagree. Spags had ends play at tackle, had ends standing up. Had DL's dropping into coverage. Had linebackers (Kennard) rushing from a down position. Used his safeties and corners in various fashions.
We've been multiple under Spags.
Eric what you described are looks and schemes. We haven't been in multiple alignments much if at all. Personnel alone kept us from achieving that. We played a lot of 4-3 over/under, nickel and 46 with Spags.
on anyone's parade - and I'm not an anti-Shumur guy - but many of us were saying the same types of things two years ago when McAdoo was announced.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
That's right. Waltzes in business casual like he's checking into the country club, Purple tie, left-handed, refuses to guarantee Webb will start, refuses to guarantee Barkley will be picked at #2, didn't announce Eli and Beckham were cut at the press conference as a lesson in his sense of purpose and commitment and as a message to the rest of the team.
Did our defense suck last year because we were a 4-3 defense? Or did it suck because our ends didn't play up to their contracts and our linebackers sucked?
I would argue the latter.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Between his comments and Gettleman's
It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
I just don't understand how anyone can draw conclusions from a couple of press conferences. What is everyone expecting these guys to say? We are happy he said the oline is important? What was everyone expecting him to say, "I don't care about the oline?" Same with qb, are you all expecting them to say manning is done and we are taking a qb early? Why give up any potential ammunition to trade up or down?
Also, I could infer from gettlemens comments that they are taking a qb when he mentions how difficult it is to find one in this league and ending up in qb hell. You think both of these guys are gonna tie their careers to a late third round pick from a gm who was notorious for failed picks in rounds 2-5 or an aging qb at the end of his time? They understand he value if a franchise qb. If they don't take one in this draft, expect them to trade multiple first round picks for a qb who may not even be Darnold/Rosen in the next draft or two. Which will make some of you freak out even more.
I heard that he mumbled under his breath, to someone after the press conference, that Rosen is a china doll.....:)
Did you hear him say that or did someone tell you they heard it? I'm curious, not saying it didn't happen. If you were told that, can you say who told you?
Then my eyes have deceived me. I've seen fronts that our ends standing up in a 3-4-type look.
Did we use it a lot? No. But we used it.
If you are going to argue that Spags didn't have multiple looks to his defense, then we're going to disagree.
Ends rushing from a 2 point stance doesn't clue a 34 alignment. Was Harrison lined up in 0 tech? Who was the 5 & 3tech in that look? I can make a 4-3 under look like a 5-2 very easy. Alignment and looks are two different things.
So are you arguing that there are defenses out there now that run the true 3-4 defense 50 percent of the time and then run a true 4-3 50 percent of the time?
What teams do is run multiple looks with constantly changing numbers at the DL, LB, and DB positions. That's what Spags did too. You seem to be saying that Spags wasn't multiple because he didn't have Harrison play 0 technique over the nose.
1. His experience - clearly he is not only "ready" to be a coach but truly seems to have taken in all that he's learned from his days in Cleveland and his OC days. This is a guy who won't be seeing anything for the first time on game day
2. His calm demeanor/serious but professional attitude: Mentioned numerous times that he wants players who wouldn't know what to do without football because he pretty much feels that way too. He wants guys that are going to not only be a professional but stop at nothing to win. This lines up with Gettleman and is a BIG change from the previous regime. Reese and McAdoo always talked about talent and having "potential" but not enough about guys that love the game
3. He seems to be a very self-aware guy. Players will see this and respect it. I can't see any professional football player not respecting this guy and hearing him out on a day to day basis.
4. Might not be the most bubbly or entertaining guy but he handles questions and answers in great detail, and his dry sense of humor is a nice change from McAdoo. I think that's needed around here lately
5. He didn't make any proclamations about Super Bowls or division titles or this or that. He wants guys in here that want to win and he'll take it from there. I really wanted to hear that and was very impressed
also had that weird 5 point plan as to what was needed to win and it was filled with cliches. It was kinda cool but felt really forced. Shurmur didn't do any of that today. Says he wants guys that wouldn't know what they'd do without football, and they'll do their best to change the winning attitude around here bit by bit. I liked that.
The focus in the media was on the suit and the way I remember it was that most people on BBI thought that was a weird focus by the media. I seem to remember most people being glad Coughlin was gone and being encouraged by what McAdoo was saying.
I don't recall folks turning on McAdoo until he started getting shorter and shorter with the press after his first year (and of course, no one likes a loser so that exacerbated it).
As I said above, Shurmur appears much more mature. And I find it fascinating that Giants officials keep using the word "adult" with him. (Was McAdoo an even bigger problem than we realize?)
Regardless, my point is that this is all show this point. I've been through this with Handley, Reeves, Fassel, Coughlin, McAdoo. We won't know until the bullets start flying.
Did our defense suck last year because we were a 4-3 defense? Or did it suck because our ends didn't play up to their contracts and our linebackers sucked?
I would argue the latter.
It also sucked because the offense couldn't keep the ball. Last year the Giants were 28th in TOP at 28:26, Minnesota was 3rd in TOP at 32:07.
The Giants TOP wasn't good in 2016 either -- they were fortunate to win so many close games.
I see what Gettleman meant when he said he was an adult. He's in charge, he's honest, he has a plan and he is competitive. He didn't duck any questions and made it clear that he'll be communicative and open as best as he can, I think that is a big big change from the secret squirrel crap Reese and McAdoo tried to pull over.
I have to admit -- the secret squirrel thing had me scratching my head more than a few times - especially this year when I was there for the entire camp --
There were 5,000 people watching the scrimmages -- and when the Giants were practicing offensive schemes -- and in particular 2 TE sets -- none of the reporters on the sidelines were allowed to film it -- but everyone in the stands with their cameras could
also had that weird 5 point plan as to what was needed to win and it was filled with cliches. It was kinda cool but felt really forced. Shurmur didn't do any of that today. Says he wants guys that wouldn't know what they'd do without football, and they'll do their best to change the winning attitude around here bit by bit. I liked that.
Did our defense suck last year because we were a 4-3 defense? Or did it suck because our ends didn't play up to their contracts and our linebackers sucked?
I would argue the latter.
This. No matter what, we need both better production and better talent in our front 7 regardless of the base scheme.
I do think the size requirements have hindered the ability to get quality LB's. A LB doesn't need to be 6'3" 250 LBS to be a good NFL LB. Minnesota, Atlanta and Philly are proof of this. Hopefully DG adjusts the draft philosophy in regards to the LB position.
We need better productions from our Pass Rushers period. JPP is not an edge pressure guy anymore. Vernon still is. I think finding that other edge guy whether it is a DE or OLB is irrelevant.
So are you arguing that there are defenses out there now that run the true 3-4 defense 50 percent of the time and then run a true 4-3 50 percent of the time?
What teams do is run multiple looks with constantly changing numbers at the DL, LB, and DB positions. That's what Spags did too. You seem to be saying that Spags wasn't multiple because he didn't have Harrison play 0 technique over the nose.
Actually there is no such thing as a true 34 or 43 alignment in the NFL. Now if you are talking youth football I see your point. Let me ask you a question... When the QB points out the mike backer what do you think that is for? I'll answer it for you. Looks mean nothing except to cause confusion and offensive hesitation. The QB points out the mike so that the line can clue the alignment by the mikes split. Same way you can show me a zone look in the secondary but WR motion tells me the truth when your corner follows. Bettcher mixes alignments, Spags mixed looks. Spags was a 43 over/under and 46 guy. That is why you saw extra linemen used.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Between his comments and Gettleman's
I heard that he mumbled under his breath, to someone after the press conference, that Rosen is a china doll.....:)
Did you hear him say that or did someone tell you they heard it? I'm curious, not saying it didn't happen. If you were told that, can you say who told you?
said something very telling in presser about how he likes a calmness with regards to qb position.....
Just might take Mayfield out of the equation?
Personally, I think Mayfield is the best qb coming out this year but if they determine they get a couple more years out of Eli and Webb is worthy of development then I can see us trading down and filling multiple holes
the importance of having a good relationship with the media and being more open. That he didn't agree with being tight lipped, secretive, or combative.
Hopefully he's more like Spags in that way where he engages the press with more detailed answers, showing theirintellect and occasional humor.
very honest and explains himself. McAdoo was very short with interviewers and the media. McAdoo also started to appear too full of himself after an 11-5 season and a playoff berth. That in and of itself started his downfall. I think Shurmur has started off endearing himself to the media and public. Now if he can do the same with the players, hell be on his way to getting them to follow. From hearing his former players speak about him, I get the impression that the players will love him. Anyway, great start IMV. Its been a very exciting off-season so far and hopefully FA and the draft will bring us even more excitement.
As always, I'll link to videos and transcripts, usually from the front page.
https://twitter.com/Giants/status/956874385486372866 - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I am curious to how this will be. Hoping for the best and really looking to see what we do with our own players (signed, released, traded) and then where we may go in FA and the Draft.
Giants haven't named anyone officially yet. But no word on OC.
Awesome! Hes got that monotone voice. Something we have to get used to. Todd Bowles is the same way, very calm and monotone. Hopefully he get the attention of the team when he needs to! Bettcher on the other hand will command a room. I hope he can kick the defense in the ass.
All eyes will be on the suit.
".. all the people that I've met that have worked for the New York Giants have always told me, 'If you ever have the chance to work for the New York Giants, go do it. It's a top-flight, top-class organization, and you and your family would love it there.' That's why when the opportunity came up for me there, I jumped at it."
http://www.yourconroenews.com/neighborhood/moco/sports/article/NFL-Conroe-native-Tolbert-excited-for-12522694.php
Big Blue Interactive
@BigBlueInteract
44s44 seconds ago
Shurmur: "I have zero tolerance for those who don't compete."
Lets go!!!
Pretty cool.
How can he hope to be seen as serious and successful. Should've kept McAdoo.
Big Blue Interactive
@BigBlueInteract
1m1 minute ago
Shurmur: "I do plan to call the plays."
How can he hope to be seen as serious and successful. Should've kept McAdoo.
He's wearing a tie.
How can he hope to be seen as serious and successful. Should've kept McAdoo.
I know you're kidding but he does have a tie on now. He's not wearing what I posted above. Looks very sharp and professional unlike the last clown who showed up in a 5XL suit jacket.
Quote:
I'm done with this team
No more serious whipping boy than Quinn. Special teams are the canary in the coalmine of a roster- indication of serious speed and talent deficiencies. I hope they can Quinn just so some of you can move on to a new whipping boy.
Quote:
I'm done with this team
No more serious whipping boy than Quinn. Special teams are the canary in the coalmine of a roster- indication of serious speed and talent deficiencies. I hope they can Quinn just so some of you can move on to a new whipping boy.
They've already hired a new ST coordinator days ago. Where the fuck have some of you been?
"Years" left.
Multiple in his schemes.
Haha, saw that.
Quote:
Sport shirt? What is this? "Meet the Captain Night" on a cruise?
How can he hope to be seen as serious and successful. Should've kept McAdoo.
I know you're kidding but he does have a tie on now. He's not wearing what I posted above. Looks very sharp and professional unlike the last clown who showed up in a 5XL suit jacket.
He's left-handed?? We're fucked.
He made a great point in his answer. The hybrid defense is harder on offenses as it causes more confusion.
"Years" left.
He also said he doesn't know how many.
Boom! Love it.
Also "no matter how good you think your offensive line is, you need to constantly address it"
Quote:
answer on 3-4 vs. 4-3 isn't going to sit well with those who want a clean answer.
What did he say? I totally missed it.
Need to be multiple. In nickle 60% of the time.
Quote:
answer on 3-4 vs. 4-3 isn't going to sit well with those who want a clean answer.
What did he say? I totally missed it.
He essentially said that you see 3 man fronts regardless of base and that most teams mix it up a bit and it sounds like we will too.
My assumption is that we're going to probably move to more of a 3-4 but that we're still going to use 4-3 alignments at times and do some hybrid stuff. As we should.
Quote:
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!
That was amazing, I'm so happy right now.
^^^^
This
Talking about OL upgrades in Minn
Love that line.
I noticed and liked that, too. Good stuff.
Next hell be saying linebackers are important
I come away from Shurmur's presser so far thinking to myself, McAdoo was out of his league here.
I don't think you can take the quote and say that. He said he thinks Eli has years left, but doesn't know how many.
He's not going to come out and trash him.
I come away from Shurmur's presser so far thinking to myself, McAdoo was out of his league here.
Yeah, exactly. McAdoo was trying to be a tough guy. This guy is comfortable in is own skin.
Quote:
comment regarding the QB position is telling regarding his input on a potential QB selection come draft day.
I noticed and liked that, too. Good stuff.
I don't like to read too much into what people say, especially at an introductory presser, but I would think that description of what he likes in a QB would play into a decision on guys like Mayfield for instance.
Big Blue Interactive
@BigBlueInteract
8s9 seconds ago
Shurmur on offensive background: some West Coast Offense, some Chip Kelly up-tempo, strong running game in Minnesota which allows play action, use screen game.
He doesn't take himself too seriously but at the same time, he's a serious guy. Good balance.
Pat is gonna be a good coach for us. I'm really glad we chose him.
I didn't come away with that impression at all.
We're keeping the linebackers coach. See front page.
Screens are not our strength.
From what little he knows about Webb, he seems to think highly of him.
I heard him say some staff members aren't available yet. That tells me it could be someone from the Eagles
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Shurmur on offensive background: some West Coast Offense, some Chip Kelly up-tempo, strong running game in Minnesota which allows play action, use screen game.
I like this answer. He's not tied to one way of playing, i.e. *HIS SYSTEM*. Smart.
He joked one of his daughter's doesn't like QB sneaks.
Very DG like in that regard --- not full of just "coach speak".
He doesn't take himself too seriously but at the same time, he's a serious guy. Good balance.
Pat is gonna be a good coach for us. I'm really glad we chose him.
I agree with all that. He came across as an experienced, professional football coach.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
This is the most excited I've been in a Giants offseason in a long time. This whole new regime is saying the right things with the right tone, attitude, and focus. It's still way early, butt it seems like they got it right with the GM and coach.Now they have to knock it out of the park with the draft.
I think the players will respond to that.
He clearly was talking about Flowers in terms of offensive linemen on the roster who need to be motivated who haven't lived up to their potential yet.
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Is clearly on a SB staff right now, there hasn't been a hint of an interview or even interest for any other candidates yet. DeFilippo or Staley.
I heard him say some staff members aren't available yet. That tells me it could be someone from the Eagles
He was asked about the OC and said they are going through the process and lack of availability, was one of his answers.
I came away with that meaning our OC is on the Eagles or Patriots.
My point is fans are not paying attention to what is going on during football games. They have preconceived notions that are not true.
Takeaways:
Oline Changes coming: believes in changing the transmission not the oil if needed
QB: Confortable going with Eli it seems at least for the interim
Seems like a no bullshit guy, but a guy who is going to really speak to and get to know guys and their passion...
I feel the way he connects with players is going to unlock a lot of magic with this organizations.
Great presser, and welcome Coach Shurmur!
I don't think he said that he was referring to a potential answer on the OL that is already on the roster but might need motivation or something like that.
Always an asshole in every thread. Congrats!
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It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
I didn't come away with that impression at all.
Same. Nothing he said implies anything about who they will be drafting.
My point is fans are not paying attention to what is going on during football games. They have preconceived notions that are not true.
Eric, they have not been that MULTIPLE at all. Our LB'ers are proof one of that. I suspect we will see more LB'ers who can put their hand down and less asking DE's to drop. So a m,ore 3-4 in concept will be the case. What he said about Nickel though could really mean a more 3-4 like look but with a more hybrid S/LB as part of that., A guy who could rush or cover.
We have been far more strictly 4 man front (regardless of the back 7 make up) than what you are saying here. JPP and OV dropped some but that is not the same as having them standing up and playing that way 40% or more of the time.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
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It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
I just don't understand how anyone can draw conclusions from a couple of press conferences. What is everyone expecting these guys to say? We are happy he said the oline is important? What was everyone expecting him to say, "I don't care about the oline?" Same with qb, are you all expecting them to say manning is done and we are taking a qb early? Why give up any potential ammunition to trade up or down?
Also, I could infer from gettlemens comments that they are taking a qb when he mentions how difficult it is to find one in this league and ending up in qb hell. You think both of these guys are gonna tie their careers to a late third round pick from a gm who was notorious for failed picks in rounds 2-5 or an aging qb at the end of his time? They understand he value if a franchise qb. If they don't take one in this draft, expect them to trade multiple first round picks for a qb who may not even be Darnold/Rosen in the next draft or two. Which will make some of you freak out even more.
We've been multiple under Spags.
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In comment 13807533 AcesUp said:
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Is clearly on a SB staff right now, there hasn't been a hint of an interview or even interest for any other candidates yet. DeFilippo or Staley.
I heard him say some staff members aren't available yet. That tells me it could be someone from the Eagles
He was asked about the OC and said they are going through the process and lack of availability, was one of his answers.
I came away with that meaning our OC is on the Eagles or Patriots.
Agreed. Also, since he said he will be calling the plays, I am going to guess that the OC will be someone from the Eagles that he has worked with.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
I am not giddy at all and proof is shown not told. BUt, BM sucked as a coach and his PC was borderline comical. I think DG's involvement says times will be different regardless.
That was my takeaway as well.
Praise the Lord and pass the blocking sleds!!
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In comment 13807645 Matt M. said:
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It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
I just don't understand how anyone can draw conclusions from a couple of press conferences. What is everyone expecting these guys to say? We are happy he said the oline is important? What was everyone expecting him to say, "I don't care about the oline?" Same with qb, are you all expecting them to say manning is done and we are taking a qb early? Why give up any potential ammunition to trade up or down?
Also, I could infer from gettlemens comments that they are taking a qb when he mentions how difficult it is to find one in this league and ending up in qb hell. You think both of these guys are gonna tie their careers to a late third round pick from a gm who was notorious for failed picks in rounds 2-5 or an aging qb at the end of his time? They understand he value if a franchise qb. If they don't take one in this draft, expect them to trade multiple first round picks for a qb who may not even be Darnold/Rosen in the next draft or two. Which will make some of you freak out even more.
I heard that he mumbled under his breath, to someone after the press conference, that Rosen is a china doll.....:)
They'll have to spend another 5-6 years bitching about him because he's almost certainly not going anywhere.
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sad
Always an asshole in every thread. Congrats!
Yeah what could Shurmur possibly due for a terrible QB like Eli Manning? He went to the NFC championship game with former UDFA journeyman Case Keenum who had a career season but yeah I am sure he can't do anything with a two time superbowl MVP future HOF QB.
I got that impression as well.
Very subtle, very meaningful.
Don't forget Shurmur was in Minnesota last year and got to witness one of Beckham's tantrums first hand.
That shit is going to be cut out fast.
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So, the insane, over the top, overreactions to every little thing Beckham does crowd should love that.
They'll have to spend another 5-6 years bitching about him because he's almost certainly not going anywhere.
He can't go anywhere. He's by far the best player on the offense. We saw how the offense went without him this year.
Screens are not our strength.
From what little he knows about Webb, he seems to think highly of him.
And he has a better tailor!!!
Very subtle, very meaningful.
Don't forget Shurmur was in Minnesota last year and got to witness one of Beckham's tantrums first hand.
That shit is going to be cut out fast.
What 'shit'? He's not going anywhere. Deal with it.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
Read again.
Continue the in-game circus act?
Bye-bye.
But I wish him luck
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
But McAdoo had to operate under a different GM. I thin the GM will make all the difference
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sad
Always an asshole in every thread. Congrats!
11th commandment,never talk bad about saint eli or be mocked and scorned. grow up.
Is Gettleman a better GM than Reese?
How long will Gettleman be GM?
I'm optimistic. (You have to be at this point or there would be no reason to subject yourself to more horrific football). But I'm too old to blindly say, "Yea!!! Change for the sake of change!!!"
Watching this offseason will be fascinating and fun, but whether this can get turned around remains to been seen. A lot of moving parts (GM, HC, QB, defense, OL, Beckham, etc).
It seems like a mental thing. It's really not a difficult throw to make.
Now, getting a 37-year-old to stop a chronic mental mistake? Good luck.
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on anyone's parade - and I'm not an anti-Shumur guy - but many of us were saying the same types of things two years ago when McAdoo was announced.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
Why? Eric giddy is good, let people be excited and happy. It's OK Eric, you can be excited too. It is better to get excited and burned than to never be excited at all. Happy is good. Put me in with excited and happy.
I'm someone who thinks presentation matters:
My point is fans are not paying attention to what is going on during football games. They have preconceived notions that are not true.
Exactly right! I've pointed out in previous threads that a lot of posters have preconceived notions on most topics (particularly with respect to who we should/shouldn't draft with the #2 pick) and selectively post facts that support their argument while ignoring any that don't fit their preconceived notions
He clearly was talking about Flowers in terms of offensive linemen on the roster who need to be motivated who haven't lived up to their potential yet.
I don't think his warning was specifically for 1 or 2 players. I think it was for everyone. Flowers and Apple were not the only players who had perceived lapses in effort this past season.
We've been multiple under Spags.
Eric what you described are looks and schemes. We haven't been in multiple alignments much if at all. Personnel alone kept us from achieving that. We played a lot of 4-3 over/under, nickel and 46 with Spags.
Proof is in the product. The good news is that Shurmur has a more established track record than McAdoo and seems more mature.
But let's not get too giddy just yet.
Not a good beginning.
Did we use it a lot? No. But we used it.
If you are going to argue that Spags didn't have multiple looks to his defense, then we're going to disagree.
Did our defense suck last year because we were a 4-3 defense? Or did it suck because our ends didn't play up to their contracts and our linebackers sucked?
I would argue the latter.
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In comment 13807665 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 13807645 Matt M. said:
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It is sounding more and more like they will not go QB in the draft.
How did you come to this conclusion? He said that there isn't much tape on Webb but he is looking forward to getting to know him. There isn't any games or practices before the draft so he won't get an idea of Webb's talent level until training camp.
I just don't understand how anyone can draw conclusions from a couple of press conferences. What is everyone expecting these guys to say? We are happy he said the oline is important? What was everyone expecting him to say, "I don't care about the oline?" Same with qb, are you all expecting them to say manning is done and we are taking a qb early? Why give up any potential ammunition to trade up or down?
Also, I could infer from gettlemens comments that they are taking a qb when he mentions how difficult it is to find one in this league and ending up in qb hell. You think both of these guys are gonna tie their careers to a late third round pick from a gm who was notorious for failed picks in rounds 2-5 or an aging qb at the end of his time? They understand he value if a franchise qb. If they don't take one in this draft, expect them to trade multiple first round picks for a qb who may not even be Darnold/Rosen in the next draft or two. Which will make some of you freak out even more.
I heard that he mumbled under his breath, to someone after the press conference, that Rosen is a china doll.....:)
Did you hear him say that or did someone tell you they heard it? I'm curious, not saying it didn't happen. If you were told that, can you say who told you?
Did we use it a lot? No. But we used it.
If you are going to argue that Spags didn't have multiple looks to his defense, then we're going to disagree.
Ends rushing from a 2 point stance doesn't clue a 34 alignment. Was Harrison lined up in 0 tech? Who was the 5 & 3tech in that look? I can make a 4-3 under look like a 5-2 very easy. Alignment and looks are two different things.
What teams do is run multiple looks with constantly changing numbers at the DL, LB, and DB positions. That's what Spags did too. You seem to be saying that Spags wasn't multiple because he didn't have Harrison play 0 technique over the nose.
Here he is being introduced in 2000:
2. His calm demeanor/serious but professional attitude: Mentioned numerous times that he wants players who wouldn't know what to do without football because he pretty much feels that way too. He wants guys that are going to not only be a professional but stop at nothing to win. This lines up with Gettleman and is a BIG change from the previous regime. Reese and McAdoo always talked about talent and having "potential" but not enough about guys that love the game
3. He seems to be a very self-aware guy. Players will see this and respect it. I can't see any professional football player not respecting this guy and hearing him out on a day to day basis.
4. Might not be the most bubbly or entertaining guy but he handles questions and answers in great detail, and his dry sense of humor is a nice change from McAdoo. I think that's needed around here lately
5. He didn't make any proclamations about Super Bowls or division titles or this or that. He wants guys in here that want to win and he'll take it from there. I really wanted to hear that and was very impressed
We really weren't saying the same things about Mac. We said he had a terrible suit, an 80's style haircut and a stiff demeanor.
Mac basically lost the battle of public perception early on, but he won on the field and that's when people warmed to him.
When things went South, his terrible press conferences and he revamped appearance helped shovel the dirt back on him.
Both Shurmur and Gettleman appear to be polar opposites of the two men they've replaced.
Time will tell if they will last, but they are at least off to a winning start, IMO.
I don't recall folks turning on McAdoo until he started getting shorter and shorter with the press after his first year (and of course, no one likes a loser so that exacerbated it).
As I said above, Shurmur appears much more mature. And I find it fascinating that Giants officials keep using the word "adult" with him. (Was McAdoo an even bigger problem than we realize?)
Regardless, my point is that this is all show this point. I've been through this with Handley, Reeves, Fassel, Coughlin, McAdoo. We won't know until the bullets start flying.
Did our defense suck last year because we were a 4-3 defense? Or did it suck because our ends didn't play up to their contracts and our linebackers sucked?
I would argue the latter.
It also sucked because the offense couldn't keep the ball. Last year the Giants were 28th in TOP at 28:26, Minnesota was 3rd in TOP at 32:07.
The Giants TOP wasn't good in 2016 either -- they were fortunate to win so many close games.
I was saying that first impressions matter.
I have to admit -- the secret squirrel thing had me scratching my head more than a few times - especially this year when I was there for the entire camp --
There were 5,000 people watching the scrimmages -- and when the Giants were practicing offensive schemes -- and in particular 2 TE sets -- none of the reporters on the sidelines were allowed to film it -- but everyone in the stands with their cameras could
I really didn't get that
He spoke English. It was very refreshing.
Did our defense suck last year because we were a 4-3 defense? Or did it suck because our ends didn't play up to their contracts and our linebackers sucked?
I would argue the latter.
This. No matter what, we need both better production and better talent in our front 7 regardless of the base scheme.
I do think the size requirements have hindered the ability to get quality LB's. A LB doesn't need to be 6'3" 250 LBS to be a good NFL LB. Minnesota, Atlanta and Philly are proof of this. Hopefully DG adjusts the draft philosophy in regards to the LB position.
We need better productions from our Pass Rushers period. JPP is not an edge pressure guy anymore. Vernon still is. I think finding that other edge guy whether it is a DE or OLB is irrelevant.
What teams do is run multiple looks with constantly changing numbers at the DL, LB, and DB positions. That's what Spags did too. You seem to be saying that Spags wasn't multiple because he didn't have Harrison play 0 technique over the nose.
Actually there is no such thing as a true 34 or 43 alignment in the NFL. Now if you are talking youth football I see your point. Let me ask you a question... When the QB points out the mike backer what do you think that is for? I'll answer it for you. Looks mean nothing except to cause confusion and offensive hesitation. The QB points out the mike so that the line can clue the alignment by the mikes split. Same way you can show me a zone look in the secondary but WR motion tells me the truth when your corner follows. Bettcher mixes alignments, Spags mixed looks. Spags was a 43 over/under and 46 guy. That is why you saw extra linemen used.
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In comment 13807717 lax counsel said:
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In comment 13807665 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 13807645 Matt M. said:
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I heard that he mumbled under his breath, to someone after the press conference, that Rosen is a china doll.....:)
Did you hear him say that or did someone tell you they heard it? I'm curious, not saying it didn't happen. If you were told that, can you say who told you?
It was a joke. Come on......
Just might take Mayfield out of the equation?
Personally, I think Mayfield is the best qb coming out this year but if they determine they get a couple more years out of Eli and Webb is worthy of development then I can see us trading down and filling multiple holes
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Based on that criteria, Bill Belichick is a horrific football coach.
Here he is being introduced in 2000:
Play the 'game' until you've got your chops.
Then you can be a quirky as you want.
But not a moment before that.
I thought that was telling. Bummer.
Hopefully he's more like Spags in that way where he engages the press with more detailed answers, showing theirintellect and occasional humor.
It goes a long way.
I thought that was telling. Bummer.
Lol, all we can do is guess
With the right moves we will be right back into contention !