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NFT: Todd Frazier is a Met

ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:47 pm
Boom... Love this move!
.  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:48 pm : link
Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal
#Mets in agreement with free-agent 3B Todd Frazier on two-year, $17M contract, sources tell The Athletic. Pending a physical.
Isn't he fading?  
Canton : 2/5/2018 8:51 pm : link
His batting average is horrific. What does he bring?
.  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 8:51 pm : link
Barely hit over .200 last year.. another low avg. power guy who doesn't get on base much.

Yay?
Besides a little pop  
Canton : 2/5/2018 8:51 pm : link
.
Is this the dude who started the thumbs down thing  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/5/2018 8:52 pm : link
with the Yankees?
He's a 3 fWAR player  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:52 pm : link
He brings outstanding D to 3B of which we havent seen in years, above average offense, pop to the lower part of the lineup, and leadership.

RE: Isn't he fading?  
Giantsfan79 : 2/5/2018 8:52 pm : link
In comment 13822958 Canton said:
Quote:
His batting average is horrific. What does he bring?


He walks alot so his on base is better even though his batting average will be in the .220 to .240 range. He does have some pop in his bat still.
RE: Isn't he fading?  
section125 : 2/5/2018 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13822958 Canton said:
Quote:
His batting average is horrific. What does he bring?


He stays on the field for the full seasons unlike previous Mets 3rd baseman.
This team is going to be HR's or nothing  
steve in ky : 2/5/2018 8:54 pm : link
.
Over the last 5 years he's basically been between a  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:55 pm : link
3 and 5 WAR player. We are paying him 8.5 million dollars. lol. Yes, lets please poo poo this now.

A couple days ago.. we weren't signing Frazier or adding another 2B/3B... a month ago we had spent our last 10 million...

RE: This team is going to be HR's or nothing  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 8:55 pm : link
In comment 13822967 steve in ky said:
Quote:
.


Yep. Still haven't learned their lesson.
I can dig it...  
bLiTz 2k : 2/5/2018 8:56 pm : link
Good defense at 3B is key.
The left side of our infield  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:56 pm : link
Went from an absolute joke last year.... worst in baseball.. to PLUS overnight.
RE: RE: This team is going to be HR's or nothing  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:58 pm : link
In comment 13822969 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13822967 steve in ky said:


Quote:


.



Yep. Still haven't learned their lesson.


You preferred Reyes starting? Who else was available? Moose? He's HR or nothing too. Do nothing and wait for Machado next year??
Now let's get  
Bill in TN : 2/5/2018 8:59 pm : link
Lance Lynn or Alex Cobb to solidify the starting rotation.
Offseason is coming around...  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:00 pm : link
We've added two late-inning bullpen pieces (Ramos was all about 2018), a solid OF, a solid IF, a solid bench piece, a bandaid in case Smith isnt ready...

Bring me a SP late on a steal and Im going to be thrilled.
As a Yankee fan, I had the same reservations about him  
bceagle05 : 2/5/2018 9:00 pm : link
some of you have voiced here, but wound up pleasantly surprised. He seems rejuvenated playing close to home, was a clutch hitter with a lot of pop, and played a GREAT third base. Also became a team leader within days. Only downside is the "thumbs down" guy is a Mets fan, so be prepared for thousands of references, commercials, etc.
Not a horrible move for the money  
ChathamMark : 2/5/2018 9:01 pm : link
The Mets can only do so much. Hometown Jersey guy. Good for the clubhouse from what I read.
RE: Now let's get  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:02 pm : link
In comment 13822975 Bill in TN said:
Quote:
Lance Lynn or Alex Cobb to solidify the starting rotation.


Hell yeah baby. Lynn/Cobb makes this offseason awesome IMO.

None of these guys are superstars. The superstar additions are coming in the form of Syndergaard, Familia, Cespedes, and hopefully Conforto in May.

Still needed solid players to supplement the roster however.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:02 pm : link
It's not a terrible deal, I'm just not a big Todd Frazier guy. I don't think this really moves the needle much.

This is still likely going to be a "meh" team that misses the postseason.

I have zero faith in anything this org. does.
happy with this  
fanofthejets : 2/5/2018 9:03 pm : link
His power is legit, he does get on base via the walk. Not terribly old. If you get lucky he can sock 35-40 for you. I like this pickup.

Also I wonder if Wright has informed the organization that he will announce his retirement shortly. Poor guy. Deserved better.
This is not  
Modus Operandi : 2/5/2018 9:06 pm : link
Suddenly a plus infield. He's an okay player and Rosario is still a ????

This move in itself doesn't move the needle one bit.
RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 2/5/2018 9:09 pm : link
In comment 13822959 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Barely hit over .200 last year.. another low avg. power guy who doesn't get on base much.

Yay?


So what you are saying is...more of the same?

Sandys really thinking outside of the box. Hell fit right in when he strikes out 150 times this season.
In my opinion  
Bill in TN : 2/5/2018 9:09 pm : link
the most significant thing the Mets have done this offseason is with the coaching staff. Maybe now with Callaway, DiSarcina and Eiland instead of TC, old man Warthen and whoever the bench coach was, this dugout will be making better decisions.
Personnel additions, while not being earth-shattering, have been solid within the financial constraints of the asshole owners.
RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:09 pm : link
In comment 13822982 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
It's not a terrible deal, I'm just not a big Todd Frazier guy. I don't think this really moves the needle much.

This is still likely going to be a "meh" team that misses the postseason.

I have zero faith in anything this org. does.


Like Ive said a million times. The Mets are going as far as their top 5 guys take them. That's the same as any competitive team in baseball. For us thats Thor, deGrom, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto. Lose more than one of those to injury for the year and we are going to be in major trouble just like we were last year. How far are the Yankees going if they lose Judge and Stanton for the year in April? How far are the Nats going if they even lose one of Sherzer/Strasburg for the year in April? Doesn't mean you dont need good second tier/supporting cast members. Improving our D and improving the clubhouse while adding a little bit of pop back into the team isnt a bad thing. And it strengthens our bench by pushing Reyes there.

RE: This is not  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:11 pm : link
In comment 13822984 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Suddenly a plus infield. He's an okay player and Rosario is still a ????

This move in itself doesn't move the needle one bit.


I didnt say it was a plus infield. I said the left side of the infield is plus. Rosario, even as a shaky rookie, posted a positive DRS and UZR last year.
RE: As a Yankee fan, I had the same reservations about him  
Del Shofner : 2/5/2018 9:13 pm : link
In comment 13822977 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
some of you have voiced here, but wound up pleasantly surprised. He seems rejuvenated playing close to home, was a clutch hitter with a lot of pop, and played a GREAT third base. Also became a team leader within days. Only downside is the "thumbs down" guy is a Mets fan, so be prepared for thousands of references, commercials, etc.


Same here. FWIW, I'd have been fine with the Yanks re-signing him until one of our younger guys is ready.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:13 pm : link
In comment 13822989 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13822982 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


It's not a terrible deal, I'm just not a big Todd Frazier guy. I don't think this really moves the needle much.

This is still likely going to be a "meh" team that misses the postseason.

I have zero faith in anything this org. does.



Like Ive said a million times. The Mets are going as far as their top 5 guys take them. That's the same as any competitive team in baseball. For us thats Thor, deGrom, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto. Lose more than one of those to injury for the year and we are going to be in major trouble just like we were last year. How far are the Yankees going if they lose Judge and Stanton for the year in April? How far are the Nats going if they even lose one of Sherzer/Strasburg for the year in April? Doesn't mean you dont need good second tier/supporting cast members. Improving our D and improving the clubhouse while adding a little bit of pop back into the team isnt a bad thing. And it strengthens our bench by pushing Reyes there.


Every single one of those guys you named for us is coming off an injury or can't stop getting hurt.

Conforto isn't even going to be ready for the opener. Cespedes gets hurt every other time he runs to first base. Familia is coming off a year lost to injury, Syndergaard is coming off a year lost to injury, deGrom has had lat issues.

The odds of all 5 of those guys playing a full season is essentially zilch.

This isn't the case with every other team in baseball.

Even if the Nats lost Strasburg, I think they'd still be better than the Mets are.
This was also the best player of the options  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:14 pm : link
being mentioned. I could feel the daggers sharpening if it had been Neil Walker (BRING BACK EVERY MET EVER) or Nunez (HIS DEFENSE SUCKS) or we gave up a ton for mediocre Harrison.
RE: RE: This is not  
Modus Operandi : 2/5/2018 9:14 pm : link
In comment 13822991 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13822984 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


Suddenly a plus infield. He's an okay player and Rosario is still a ????

This move in itself doesn't move the needle one bit.



I didnt say it was a plus infield. I said the left side of the infield is plus. Rosario, even as a shaky rookie, posted a positive DRS and UZR last year.


This is why no one takes you seriously around here.

You can't just cherry pick certain metrics that support your narrative and then shift goalposts whenever someone calls you out on it.

Are we better defensively after this move? Sure. Does adding Todd Frazier at 3B make this team a contender? No it does not.
Nice signing but not sure  
Metnut : 2/5/2018 9:15 pm : link
weve closed the gap yet with the Dodgers/Cubs/Nationals. Curious to see what else they do this offseason.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:15 pm : link
In comment 13822987 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13822959 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Barely hit over .200 last year.. another low avg. power guy who doesn't get on base much.

Yay?



So what you are saying is...more of the same?

Sandys really thinking outside of the box. Hell fit right in when he strikes out 150 times this season.


LOL, yep. This is the same hitter we keep pursuing.

Given the circumstances, lack of other players available at the position, etc. it's not awful - I'd just like to see a different approach to lineup construction - but I guess I'll be waiting a bit since our pipe has virtually no good hitting prospects left save for... maybe someone like Alonso?
Yankee fan here too.  
Giant John : 2/5/2018 9:16 pm : link
Also a great locker room guy. Yanks will miss him.
He's a good player  
arniefez : 2/5/2018 9:16 pm : link
excellent defense. See a lot of pitches, has power. If he hits .250 you'll be thrilled. If he hits .220 he's still worth the money.
Z  
Bill in TN : 2/5/2018 9:16 pm : link
Agreed.
RE: As a Yankee fan, I had the same reservations about him  
Danny Kanell : 2/5/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13822977 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
some of you have voiced here, but wound up pleasantly surprised. He seems rejuvenated playing close to home, was a clutch hitter with a lot of pop, and played a GREAT third base. Also became a team leader within days. Only downside is the "thumbs down" guy is a Mets fan, so be prepared for thousands of references, commercials, etc.


+1
RE: RE: RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13822995 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13822989 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13822982 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


It's not a terrible deal, I'm just not a big Todd Frazier guy. I don't think this really moves the needle much.

This is still likely going to be a "meh" team that misses the postseason.

I have zero faith in anything this org. does.



Like Ive said a million times. The Mets are going as far as their top 5 guys take them. That's the same as any competitive team in baseball. For us thats Thor, deGrom, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto. Lose more than one of those to injury for the year and we are going to be in major trouble just like we were last year. How far are the Yankees going if they lose Judge and Stanton for the year in April? How far are the Nats going if they even lose one of Sherzer/Strasburg for the year in April? Doesn't mean you dont need good second tier/supporting cast members. Improving our D and improving the clubhouse while adding a little bit of pop back into the team isnt a bad thing. And it strengthens our bench by pushing Reyes there.




Every single one of those guys you named for us is coming off an injury or can't stop getting hurt.

Conforto isn't even going to be ready for the opener. Cespedes gets hurt every other time he runs to first base. Familia is coming off a year lost to injury, Syndergaard is coming off a year lost to injury, deGrom has had lat issues.

The odds of all 5 of those guys playing a full season is essentially zilch.

This isn't the case with every other team in baseball.

Even if the Nats lost Strasburg, I think they'd still be better than the Mets are.


First. I didnt say all 5. I said if the lost MORE THAN ONE. A good team should be able to handle losing ONE of their key players... although it's still difficult (imagine the Nats without Harper!). And yes they are coming off injuries but NONE had any injury histories prior to last year. Cespedes bulked up last year and that was a mistake... Supposedly he's taken a different approach this year and is much lighter. Syndergaard had a muscle injury that isnt re-ocurring.. Familia had a freak thing happen and he's already came back and showed his velocity late in the year.. Conforto is the big one but he's our best young hitter and possibly face of the franchise. We need him but we should be able to manage without him for a year or two. My point remains.. If you arent going to count on your superstars what are you supposed to count on? The Giants were completely finished last year the second Bumgarner went down.
RE: RE: RE: This is not  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13822998 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13822991 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13822984 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


Suddenly a plus infield. He's an okay player and Rosario is still a ????

This move in itself doesn't move the needle one bit.



I didnt say it was a plus infield. I said the left side of the infield is plus. Rosario, even as a shaky rookie, posted a positive DRS and UZR last year.



This is why no one takes you seriously around here.

You can't just cherry pick certain metrics that support your narrative and then shift goalposts whenever someone calls you out on it.

Are we better defensively after this move? Sure. Does adding Todd Frazier at 3B make this team a contender? No it does not.


Dude what the hell are you even talking about? Literally nothing you say makes a shred of sense.
That's "month or two"  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:20 pm : link
not "year or two" re-Conforto.
Arc, if you have zero faith  
Bill in TN : 2/5/2018 9:21 pm : link
why not go root for someone else, and let us wallow in our misery?
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13823005 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13822995 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13822989 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13822982 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


It's not a terrible deal, I'm just not a big Todd Frazier guy. I don't think this really moves the needle much.

This is still likely going to be a "meh" team that misses the postseason.

I have zero faith in anything this org. does.



Like Ive said a million times. The Mets are going as far as their top 5 guys take them. That's the same as any competitive team in baseball. For us thats Thor, deGrom, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto. Lose more than one of those to injury for the year and we are going to be in major trouble just like we were last year. How far are the Yankees going if they lose Judge and Stanton for the year in April? How far are the Nats going if they even lose one of Sherzer/Strasburg for the year in April? Doesn't mean you dont need good second tier/supporting cast members. Improving our D and improving the clubhouse while adding a little bit of pop back into the team isnt a bad thing. And it strengthens our bench by pushing Reyes there.




Every single one of those guys you named for us is coming off an injury or can't stop getting hurt.

Conforto isn't even going to be ready for the opener. Cespedes gets hurt every other time he runs to first base. Familia is coming off a year lost to injury, Syndergaard is coming off a year lost to injury, deGrom has had lat issues.

The odds of all 5 of those guys playing a full season is essentially zilch.

This isn't the case with every other team in baseball.

Even if the Nats lost Strasburg, I think they'd still be better than the Mets are.



First. I didnt say all 5. I said if the lost MORE THAN ONE. A good team should be able to handle losing ONE of their key players... although it's still difficult (imagine the Nats without Harper!). And yes they are coming off injuries but NONE had any injury histories prior to last year. Cespedes bulked up last year and that was a mistake... Supposedly he's taken a different approach this year and is much lighter. Syndergaard had a muscle injury that isnt re-ocurring.. Familia had a freak thing happen and he's already came back and showed his velocity late in the year.. Conforto is the big one but he's our best young hitter and possibly face of the franchise. We need him but we should be able to manage without him for a year or two. My point remains.. If you arent going to count on your superstars what are you supposed to count on? The Giants were completely finished last year the second Bumgarner went down.


Zero injury history?

Cespedes missed like 60 games as recently as 2014.
Arc's a great Met fan..  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:22 pm : link
He's jaded by last season... It's fine. I dont blame him.
Frazier is a good player.  
NyquistX3 : 2/5/2018 9:23 pm : link
Don't be fooled by the .213 batting average. A 14% walk rate pushes his on base percentage to .344, which is above average. He's also a good defender. He's at least a league average player at this point, probably slightly above average if he holds his 2017 production.
Add another Yankee fan endorsement  
adamg : 2/5/2018 9:23 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13823011 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13823005 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13822995 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13822989 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13822982 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


It's not a terrible deal, I'm just not a big Todd Frazier guy. I don't think this really moves the needle much.

This is still likely going to be a "meh" team that misses the postseason.

I have zero faith in anything this org. does.



Like Ive said a million times. The Mets are going as far as their top 5 guys take them. That's the same as any competitive team in baseball. For us thats Thor, deGrom, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto. Lose more than one of those to injury for the year and we are going to be in major trouble just like we were last year. How far are the Yankees going if they lose Judge and Stanton for the year in April? How far are the Nats going if they even lose one of Sherzer/Strasburg for the year in April? Doesn't mean you dont need good second tier/supporting cast members. Improving our D and improving the clubhouse while adding a little bit of pop back into the team isnt a bad thing. And it strengthens our bench by pushing Reyes there.




Every single one of those guys you named for us is coming off an injury or can't stop getting hurt.

Conforto isn't even going to be ready for the opener. Cespedes gets hurt every other time he runs to first base. Familia is coming off a year lost to injury, Syndergaard is coming off a year lost to injury, deGrom has had lat issues.

The odds of all 5 of those guys playing a full season is essentially zilch.

This isn't the case with every other team in baseball.

Even if the Nats lost Strasburg, I think they'd still be better than the Mets are.



First. I didnt say all 5. I said if the lost MORE THAN ONE. A good team should be able to handle losing ONE of their key players... although it's still difficult (imagine the Nats without Harper!). And yes they are coming off injuries but NONE had any injury histories prior to last year. Cespedes bulked up last year and that was a mistake... Supposedly he's taken a different approach this year and is much lighter. Syndergaard had a muscle injury that isnt re-ocurring.. Familia had a freak thing happen and he's already came back and showed his velocity late in the year.. Conforto is the big one but he's our best young hitter and possibly face of the franchise. We need him but we should be able to manage without him for a year or two. My point remains.. If you arent going to count on your superstars what are you supposed to count on? The Giants were completely finished last year the second Bumgarner went down.



Zero injury history?

Cespedes missed like 60 games as recently as 2014.


Im talking about catastrophic injuries. All players get banged up from time to time. We lost Familia/Thor basically for the year the third week in April. Those are catastrophic. We only signed Cespedes to a 100 million plus contract last year and everybody was DYING for us to get it done. His injury history wasnt a concern last year or we never would have given him that much money.
RE: Arc, if you have zero faith  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13823008 Bill in TN said:
Quote:
why not go root for someone else, and let us wallow in our misery?


Oh, I'm sorry - I didn't know it was unreasonable to have lost faith in a franchise that hasn't won a damn thing in over 30 years, has made the postseason in back to back seasons just ONE TIME IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY (no, a play-in game does not qualify) and has horrendous owners who have been bullshitting their fan base for years now.

I guess we're all supposed to just fall in line and accept mediocrity and give them a benefit of the doubt that they haven't earned.
Kind of crazy...  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:26 pm : link
Todd Frazier bWAR
2014: 5.0
2015: 4.0
2016: 3.4
2017: 3.4


For 8 million bucks AAV on a 2 year deal.
The SF Giants  
Modus Operandi : 2/5/2018 9:26 pm : link
Have won 3 titles since 2010. Sandy has won dick, put an awful product on the field, blown draft after draft and wasted any goodwill left between the club and fans.

So when I see him continue to add patches to what's an incredibly poorly built team, with no help on the horizon, excuse me when I don't jump over the moon.

Todd Frazier, in a vacuum, is a fine move. Todd Frazier isn't the point.
Its a fine move for a team that playing for the hope  
PhiPsi125 : 2/5/2018 9:28 pm : link
of making a wild card. Hes fine, but again, more of the same. If people are hoping for 35 to 40 HRs, you are going to be disappointed. Hes not in Cincinnati or Yankee Stadium anymore. And hes only hit 30+ HRs twice in 7 years. And yeah, I know his home/away splits are identical but hes now he has to play 80 games at CitiField. And, you know, hes a Met so we have to take a little more off the top to pay for the Wilpon Pennance.

Hey Im hopeful, as always. But the Mets have put me in the I need to see it to believe it territory. Fool me once shame on you, fool me 30 times shame on me.
I'm not worried about Rosario's defense at all  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/5/2018 9:29 pm : link
To be honest.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:30 pm : link
Look, I'm going to be extremely negative about this team until they give me a reason to not be.

Plain and simple.

So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.
Get ready to hear about Toms River and the LLWS +/- 750 x Mets fan  
DennyInDenville : 2/5/2018 9:30 pm : link
It gets old.

Thumbs down
RE: The SF Giants  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:31 pm : link
In comment 13823024 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Have won 3 titles since 2010. Sandy has won dick, put an awful product on the field, blown draft after draft and wasted any goodwill left between the club and fans.

So when I see him continue to add patches to what's an incredibly poorly built team, with no help on the horizon, excuse me when I don't jump over the moon.

Todd Frazier, in a vacuum, is a fine move. Todd Frazier isn't the point.


LOL. Where did you see me say Frazier alone makes the Mets a contender? The Mets are going to need their core players to get healthy and start performing again and they are going to need Rosario/Smith/Nimmo to come of age in a hurry IMO. Ramos, Swarzak, Frazier, Bruce are all great supporting players if the above happens but the season is lost of hope.
RE: The SF Giants  
NyquistX3 : 2/5/2018 9:31 pm : link
In comment 13823024 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Have won 3 titles since 2010. Sandy has won dick, put an awful product on the field


Oh please, the guy has a pennant hanging in right field and was on the brink of a championship in 2015 despite having shitty owners who don't spend dick. I'm frustrated too, and I think Sandy has not done a great job throughout his tenure, but you can't just ignore 2015 like it never happened.
RE: .  
Modus Operandi : 2/5/2018 9:31 pm : link
Quote:
So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.


Relax. You've been bugging us for years. We're used to it.
RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:32 pm : link
In comment 13823029 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Look, I'm going to be extremely negative about this team until they give me a reason to not be.

Plain and simple.

So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.


I get it. It's fine. Just dont jump on me for starting to get optimistic. ;) The Mets have had a pretty active offseason. If they get a SP too Im going to be very happy.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:32 pm : link
In comment 13823034 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:


Quote:


So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.



Relax. You've been bugging us for years. We're used to it.


Well, that just means I'm doing my job.
RE: Kind of crazy...  
PhiPsi125 : 2/5/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13823023 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Todd Frazier bWAR
2014: 5.0
2015: 4.0
2016: 3.4
2017: 3.4


For 8 million bucks AAV on a 2 year deal.


I cant keep track of all these newfangled stats.

If you say so...Ill give him a shot. Anything is better than the ghost of David Wright.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 2/5/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13822959 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Barely hit over .200 last year.. another low avg. power guy who doesn't get on base much.

Yay?


This isn't a perfect signing, but here are a few things that make me think the fit is pretty good - kind of the way Granderson had flaws but was a good pickup.

1. He plays defense.
2. He draws walks.
3. Even though he had low averages the last 2 years, over his career he's a .250 hitter and it was a little above that in Cincy.

So yeah, I wish he was a little less of an all or nothing hitter, but I think he can be a solid all-around player and they don't have much at the position so he's not blocking anyone. So this signing makes a lot more sense to me than Bruce, and now they can credibly say they've at least upgraded in a few areas compared to last year. More depth in the lineup, better defense in the infield, just wish they would have brought Reed back because then they would have dramatically upgraded the BP as well.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:37 pm : link
In comment 13823035 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823029 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Look, I'm going to be extremely negative about this team until they give me a reason to not be.

Plain and simple.

So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.



I get it. It's fine. Just dont jump on me for starting to get optimistic. ;) The Mets have had a pretty active offseason. If they get a SP too Im going to be very happy.


I'll feel a bit better if they add someone like Lynn or Cobb (both had worrisome FIP's last year but I'd still be open to adding either one)

We'll see.

I just have a feeling Conforto is going to have one of those years where he never truly "gets right" and we have to wait for 2019 to see the real MC again.

I'm excited about Rosario.

Hopefully Syndergaard and deGrom can stay healthy - we can't win without them.

I've basically given up on Matz, Harvey, and Wheeler entirely at this point.
Great  
Rflairr : 2/5/2018 9:38 pm : link
Another hacker. Slow, Low OBP, low batting avg, and strikes out a ton. Just what you want in a pitchers ballpark. Again, this is what you get with a GM with no plan.

Another season with a lineup that has no speed, strikes out a ton, doesnt get on base, and sucks ass with RiSP.

Going to be interesting to see what Eduardo Nunez gets
Also is the contract confirmed to be $17m total?  
Eric on Li : 2/5/2018 9:42 pm : link
that seems ridiculously low even in this market. Per year would seem to make more sense, but if that's the total it seems like a steal.

Plus with the 2nd year the Wilpons save some money on the PR they were planning to pump out next year after not pursuing Machado.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13823040 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13822959 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Barely hit over .200 last year.. another low avg. power guy who doesn't get on base much.

Yay?



This isn't a perfect signing, but here are a few things that make me think the fit is pretty good - kind of the way Granderson had flaws but was a good pickup.

1. He plays defense.
2. He draws walks.
3. Even though he had low averages the last 2 years, over his career he's a .250 hitter and it was a little above that in Cincy.

So yeah, I wish he was a little less of an all or nothing hitter, but I think he can be a solid all-around player and they don't have much at the position so he's not blocking anyone. So this signing makes a lot more sense to me than Bruce, and now they can credibly say they've at least upgraded in a few areas compared to last year. More depth in the lineup, better defense in the infield, just wish they would have brought Reed back because then they would have dramatically upgraded the BP as well.


I don't disagree - it's really not a bad deal by any means. Term is short, money is low. Not much risk. Good clubhouse guy, plays defense. All of that is fine.

I think I'm just going to see the Mets actually winning games on the field until I can get any sort of optimism back in my tank. Frazier isn't enough to get me excited about the upcoming season. In a vacuum, it's a fine move.

But I agree with you - I think Reed coming back could have made this pen a true strength. It can still be decent. But we'll see.
RE: RE: Kind of crazy...  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13823039 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823023 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Todd Frazier bWAR
2014: 5.0
2015: 4.0
2016: 3.4
2017: 3.4


For 8 million bucks AAV on a 2 year deal.



I cant keep track of all these newfangled stats.

If you say so...Ill give him a shot. Anything is better than the ghost of David Wright.


Speaking of Wright.. This has to spell the end right? I think a buyout/announcement is coming in the spring.
RE: Also is the contract confirmed to be $17m total?  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:44 pm : link
In comment 13823049 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
that seems ridiculously low even in this market. Per year would seem to make more sense, but if that's the total it seems like a steal.

Plus with the 2nd year the Wilpons save some money on the PR they were planning to pump out next year after not pursuing Machado.


It's total. Supposedly the Mets have had a one year deal with an option on the table for a while but they caved and offered him the second year guaranteed. Great deal IMO and for only 8 mil a year we can eat it next year if we really wanted to. It shouldnt prevent us from doing other things. I think we should replace Cabrera at 2B with Dozier next year but thats me.
RE: RE: RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13823043 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13823035 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13823029 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Look, I'm going to be extremely negative about this team until they give me a reason to not be.

Plain and simple.

So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.



I get it. It's fine. Just dont jump on me for starting to get optimistic. ;) The Mets have had a pretty active offseason. If they get a SP too Im going to be very happy.



I'll feel a bit better if they add someone like Lynn or Cobb (both had worrisome FIP's last year but I'd still be open to adding either one)

We'll see.

I just have a feeling Conforto is going to have one of those years where he never truly "gets right" and we have to wait for 2019 to see the real MC again.

I'm excited about Rosario.

Hopefully Syndergaard and deGrom can stay healthy - we can't win without them.

I've basically given up on Matz, Harvey, and Wheeler entirely at this point.


Im with you on most of that but Im bullish on Gsellman, Lugo, and Montero being decent backend options if those other three dont hack it. But if they dont could somebody like Wheeler be another bullpen piece? Could Matz? Im interested to find out. Lynn's FIP definitely worries me but he's an innings eater. Cobb is better but is a massive injury risk. Guy has never come close to pitching 200 innings. Pick your poison. Both would be a nice MOR options though IMO.
Im ok with Conforto being out for a little while  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:48 pm : link
because Nimmo was pretty good last year. I want to see him get another extended look anyway. Hopefully, Conforto really does come back in May and he's rounded back into shape for the second half. We definitely need him eventually.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/5/2018 9:49 pm : link
In comment 13823055 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823043 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13823035 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13823029 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Look, I'm going to be extremely negative about this team until they give me a reason to not be.

Plain and simple.

So, if it bugs any of you, I'd suggest just skipping over anything I post in Mets threads for a while.



I get it. It's fine. Just dont jump on me for starting to get optimistic. ;) The Mets have had a pretty active offseason. If they get a SP too Im going to be very happy.



I'll feel a bit better if they add someone like Lynn or Cobb (both had worrisome FIP's last year but I'd still be open to adding either one)

We'll see.

I just have a feeling Conforto is going to have one of those years where he never truly "gets right" and we have to wait for 2019 to see the real MC again.

I'm excited about Rosario.

Hopefully Syndergaard and deGrom can stay healthy - we can't win without them.

I've basically given up on Matz, Harvey, and Wheeler entirely at this point.



Im with you on most of that but Im bullish on Gsellman, Lugo, and Montero being decent backend options if those other three dont hack it. But if they dont could somebody like Wheeler be another bullpen piece? Could Matz? Im interested to find out. Lynn's FIP definitely worries me but he's an innings eater. Cobb is better but is a massive injury risk. Guy has never come close to pitching 200 innings. Pick your poison. Both would be a nice MOR options though IMO.


Gsellman was a bit of a mess last year, I'm not sure what happened there but he's going to have to re-establish himself and get back on the track he was on in 2016. If he can, awesome.. he was really good down the stretch that year.

I actually like Lugo a lot as a back end starter. I just know he's going to get hurt.
.  
Modus Operandi : 2/5/2018 9:55 pm : link
Quote:
Plus with the 2nd year the Wilpons save some money on the PR they were planning to pump out next year after not pursuing Machado.


You can fix a lot of knocked down doors with those savings.
I think we have the numbers  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 9:58 pm : link
Not every starter is going to fail this year again. Gsellman is only 24 years old. He was on BP top 20 list last year. I think he'll be better. Last year was basically a lost season. Lugo was actually good last year. Montero had a FIP in the 4s which wasnt terrible. Wheeler and Harvey finally get full offseasons where they arent coming off surgery. Matz had the ligament fixed which was a real issue for deGrom just the year prior. Is everything going to go right for all these guys? Hell no. Will one or two of these guys surprise? If Im a betting man Ill say yes.
Also.. new manager who is a top pitching mind supposedly....  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 10:01 pm : link
new staff.. new medical personnel... new workout philosophies...

We'll see.
One bad thing about signing Lynn/Cobb  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 10:03 pm : link
Is we lose the 2nd pick and pool money. :(
For a team dependent on its pitching,  
Section331 : 2/5/2018 10:05 pm : link
this is a good signing. A very good defensive 3B, gets on base, and has a little pop. Not a sexy signing, but hell help.
Once again  
Shecky : 2/5/2018 10:08 pm : link
I like Zs optimism, its refreshing.
.  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 10:10 pm : link

@MattEhalt
Asked this recently, and worth asking after this move: Does this deal change at all your perception on whether Mets can win division/Wild Card?

My two cents: No on division (Nats clearly better), but Mets are better positioned now to make a run at a Wild Card spot.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Eric on Li : 2/5/2018 10:14 pm : link
In comment 13823050 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


I think I'm just going to see the Mets actually winning games on the field until I can get any sort of optimism back in my tank. Frazier isn't enough to get me excited about the upcoming season. In a vacuum, it's a fine move.

But I agree with you - I think Reed coming back could have made this pen a true strength. It can still be decent. But we'll see.


Totally hear you. I tend to think progress is often incremental and sometimes small tweaks make a big difference. That's why their lack of moves, even small ones, is usually more frustrating to me than if something doesn't work out perfect so I give them credit for this one. I'd love to see them pull off another Blevins type trade for the BP since there's not much left in FA.
Here's a crazy thought - trade TDA for a RP and sign Lucroy  
Eric on Li : 2/5/2018 10:21 pm : link
he has to be crazy cheap right now. Would probably take a 1 year deal.
I think there are going to be a ton  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 10:23 pm : link
of minor league signings late to guys like De La Rosa, Liriano, ect. None are awesome... but a few of these guys should be invited to camp and might compete for a second loogy spot.. There's a ton of guys left and the season is starting. Something has to give.

Our 40 man is pretty packed too. I doubt Sandy wants to be giving out too many more guaranteed contracts for anything less than pretty good players. Im guessing Reynolds goes for Frazier.
Right up front, Im cranky as fuck  
Beezer : 2/5/2018 10:46 pm : link
from that shit show last night.

That said, Im choosing to drink the KoolAid. And ya know why? Because the Knicks still suck and the Giants sucked and the Super Bowl sucked so I need to have a fun, optimistic outlook headed into this Mets season. If it crashes, fine. But I refuse to be a crotch and bitch about it before its even started.

LETS GO!!!
Here we go again! lol. Smith is skinny again! ;)  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 11:01 pm : link
I thought Yankees might  
TJ : 2/5/2018 11:09 pm : link
as insurance in case Andujar doesn't produce right away. I wouldn't have minded at that price.
RE: Not a horrible move for the money  
Vanzetti : 2/5/2018 11:14 pm : link
In comment 13822978 ChathamMark said:
Quote:
The Mets can only do so much. Hometown Jersey guy. Good for the clubhouse from what I read.


My sentiments exactly. Mets are not signing a big time free agent, so Frazier on a reasonable deal is not bad. Only duck up this off-season was not resigning Reed who got peanuts
Patience grasshoppers....  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 11:38 pm : link

Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
a source on Wednesday night said the Mets are serious about now looking at the possibility of signing a starter, realizing how unlikely it is that they can count on Matt Harvey, Steven Matz and Zack Wheeler to all be healthy and effective for a full season. https://twitter.com/nydnharper/status/960726971864018945
RE: RE: Not a horrible move for the money  
Eric on Li : 2/5/2018 11:38 pm : link
In comment 13823119 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13822978 ChathamMark said:


Quote:


The Mets can only do so much. Hometown Jersey guy. Good for the clubhouse from what I read.



My sentiments exactly. Mets are not signing a big time free agent, so Frazier on a reasonable deal is not bad. Only duck up this off-season was not resigning Reed who got peanuts


Agreed. Should have signed Reed and another player instead of blocking Conforto and Nimmo with Bruce. My first choice would have been Lucroy, but Dyson wouldn't have been a bad option either.
Frazier just reminds me of the right-handed  
ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 11:52 pm : link
white Grandy only with a ton more D at a position of need. lol. Great clubhouse guy.... ton of pop.... varying OBP that was actually up last year similar to the years Grandy would have.
Z  
CMicks3110 : 2/5/2018 11:52 pm : link
do you prefer Cobb or Lynn?
As a Yankees fan  
illmatic : 2/6/2018 12:23 am : link
I'm kind of disappointed they didn't sign him at that price but I guess they really didn't want to do the second year. Either that or they just really like Andujar and think he'll play well immediately. Or the off chance that they have something else brewing that they want to put their money towards.
RE: Z  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 12:28 am : link
In comment 13823129 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
do you prefer Cobb or Lynn?


Eh. I dont know. I go back and forth. Lynn is more reliable and might be better year two coming off Tommy John. Cobb has more upside but can never stay healthy. Flip a coin.

Sign Yu Darvish and we get to keep our draft pick and pool money. ;)
As a Yankee fan  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/6/2018 6:50 am : link
I am really bummed that the Yankees didn't resign him. He seemed like a guy that made big plays when they needed them. I don't think the Yankees would have gone nearly as far last year without him. Oh well...
Solid  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 7:47 am : link
signing at a solid price.
Lynn  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 7:49 am : link
would cost a 2nd round pick and 500K in international pool money, can't leave that out of the equation.
I mentioned it before earlier this year...  
Rory : 2/6/2018 8:12 am : link
what about a guy like Bud Norris?, based on need could start in pen then transition to rotation if needed to spot start.

Another I like is Jeremy Hellickson, no draft compensation and knows the division.

Just thinking outside the box.
I liked Todd  
superspynyg : 2/6/2018 8:20 am : link
I hated it when we traded for him, but he is a great teammate and was a big part of our playoff run. But his avg is terrible. Not sad that we did not sign him.
RE: Frazier is a good player.  
Rory : 2/6/2018 8:23 am : link
In comment 13823014 NyquistX3 said:
Quote:
Don't be fooled by the .213 batting average. A 14% walk rate pushes his on base percentage to .344, which is above average. He's also a good defender. He's at least a league average player at this point, probably slightly above average if he holds his 2017 production.


Seen some recent 2018 projections 71R, 111H, 29HR's, .230 BA, .319 OBP.

Wonder how that translates at Citifield, saw he has some 1b experience as well.

Love the signing, more for the defense and giving Rosario some support also it locks Cabrera at 2B which is his best position.
I like it solid defense  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 8:57 am : link
veteran presence, see what other moves get made.

I think they have to trade Cabrera now though. logjam at 2B.

Flores can backup all 4 IF spots, Reyes 3 of them. Rivera a couple too (though not well defensively).

I'd roll with them over Cabrera unless they can sign/trade for a legit 2B.

The fact that they stopped pursuing 2B when Cabrera said he pref'd it  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 9:07 am : link
and then went out and signed an every day 3B makes it seem like they are pretty resigned to him being here. Considering how little everyone is spending, I'm not sure anyone is looking to add Cabrera even though he doesn't make much.

Flores probably has some value but I hope they don't trade him. He's good depth and should find AB's against lefties.
Cabrera  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 9:10 am : link
likely isn't worth the headache for other teams. Oft out of shape, had a bad year, seems like a bit of a clubhouse issue. Too many options available on the open market.
RE: Cabrera  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 9:30 am : link
In comment 13823289 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
likely isn't worth the headache for other teams. Oft out of shape, had a bad year, seems like a bit of a clubhouse issue. Too many options available on the open market.


agree, but going in to the season with him as the "every day" 2B?

out of all the positions on the diamond that's the one I feel can be upgraded in house.

though I guess if he plays like 2016 droobs it won't be so bad.

RE: RE: Cabrera  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 13823313 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823289 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


likely isn't worth the headache for other teams. Oft out of shape, had a bad year, seems like a bit of a clubhouse issue. Too many options available on the open market.



agree, but going in to the season with him as the "every day" 2B?

out of all the positions on the diamond that's the one I feel can be upgraded in house.

though I guess if he plays like 2016 droobs it won't be so bad.


They refuse to roll the dice on Wilmer as an every day guy. I'm not saying I love Cabrera I just think his price for the Mets is low enough where he has a good shot to outperform his salary BUT for another team likely isn't worth bothering with. Walker, Nunez etc still available and coming off better seasons.
Yea I think we need to hope he's motivated since he's heading into FA  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 9:38 am : link
he was noticeably in much worse shape last year than 2016. Offensively he was fine though - hit .280 and posted the best K and walk rates in his career. Certainly upgradable, but probably not to the extent that it's worth giving up prospects. If Dee Gordon doesn't work out in CF though I'd be all over that.
huge  
2cents : 2/6/2018 9:39 am : link
huge move for the mets, they have finally acknowledged that david wright will not be their 3rd basemen and actually invested in a replacement. as long as he gets sheltered in the lineup this will turn out well, if he gets forced into 4/5 hole due to injuries I think that sub .200 average and all those K's will kill the offense.
Fangraphs  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 9:45 am : link
top 100 0 Mets, BP 1 Met
Some of the negativity around this signing  
gmen9892 : 2/6/2018 9:48 am : link
Is pretty crazy. For 8.5 a year for 2 years, you are adding a huge upgrade defensively, a positive influence to the clubhouse along with some toughness, and you are getting 20-25 homers and possibly 80+ rbis out of the 3B position. When was the last time we have seen that? 2013?

Yes, he has a low batting average, but I think the positives greatly outweigh the small amount of negatives.

Perhaps the best part of this is that it allows the Mets to get at least one more piece, maybe even 2 pieces (SP/RP) for the price they got him at. Say what you want about Sandy, but he gets the guys he needs to at his price. With the constraints he is given financially, thats as good as you can ask for.
So where are we as of now...  
Chris684 : 2/6/2018 9:48 am : link
Likely we can expect a DW retirement press conference sometime this spring?

C-TDA
1B-AGON
2B-Cabrera
SS-Rosario
3B-Frazier
LF-YC
CF-Lagares
RF-Bruce

Bench-Nimmo, Reyes, Flores
Dom Smith @ AAA

Rotation: Thor, Jake, Vet FA, Harvey/Matz/Lugo/Wheeler for 2 spots?
This is a pretty good move - not great, not terrible.  
Ira : 2/6/2018 9:48 am : link
The plusses are his d, his walk rate and pop. The minuses are ba, strikeouts and age (2 year contract).
nice signing  
Csonka : 2/6/2018 9:51 am : link
Frazier's a nice piece. I like the depth of this team now. To contend, we still depend on the pitchers getting and staying healthy. That hasn't changed.
This  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 9:53 am : link
is a textbook "solid" signing. He has pluses, minuses and the value is good. It's not a season "changer" but it gives them another solid MLB starting position player. His time with the Yankees likely has people projecting an OBP higher than realistic but he's solid.
RE: So where are we as of now...  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 9:54 am : link
In comment 13823341 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Likely we can expect a DW retirement press conference sometime this spring?

C-TDA
1B-AGON
2B-Cabrera
SS-Rosario
3B-Frazier
LF-YC
CF-Lagares
RF-Bruce

Bench-Nimmo, Reyes, Flores
Dom Smith @ AAA

Rotation: Thor, Jake, Vet FA, Harvey/Matz/Lugo/Wheeler for 2 spots?


He still insists he's not ready to retire. He looks awful though (sorry I'm being honest not cruel).
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:01 am : link
I want him to be wrong but just spoke to a writer who thinks Mets fans are HUGELY overrating Gimenez based on "the unknown"

"Tools aren't loud. Not suggesting he can't be good and tools aren't the end all be all but he's not a Rosario. Upside to me is league average regular and long way to go. Not a special guy to me".
People keep saying it  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 10:02 am : link
and I guess it could happen, but Wright has zero incentive to retire.

Sure, he's seems like a good guy and a team guy, but he's owed $47M guaranteed dollars. I don't care who you are, you don't walk away from that for pride.

Secondly, the Mets are only on the hook for 25% of that or around $12M.

So the Mets have zero incentive to negotiate a buyout of Wright for anything less than $12M. If you knew you had $47M coming to you, would you take $12M to walk away?

I feel like Wright will wind up like Prince Fielder, which makes the most sense. Perpetual DL until his contract ends. Maybe if the insurance policy terminates or in the final year Wright and the Mets agree to part ways, but until eithe of those things happen I see no impetus on either side to retire or buy him out.

it could happen, like I said anything is possible, but that's a lot of coin to walk from.

the frustrating part of it is that Jeff Wilpon said the team still counts wright's contract in the payroll even with the 75% discount because "the team still has to pay the insurance premiums and there's the chance Wright could play and they don't want to get caught over budget".

I get it, but it's frustrating.
RE: People keep saying it  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 13823365 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
and I guess it could happen, but Wright has zero incentive to retire.

Sure, he's seems like a good guy and a team guy, but he's owed $47M guaranteed dollars. I don't care who you are, you don't walk away from that for pride.

Secondly, the Mets are only on the hook for 25% of that or around $12M.

So the Mets have zero incentive to negotiate a buyout of Wright for anything less than $12M. If you knew you had $47M coming to you, would you take $12M to walk away?

I feel like Wright will wind up like Prince Fielder, which makes the most sense. Perpetual DL until his contract ends. Maybe if the insurance policy terminates or in the final year Wright and the Mets agree to part ways, but until eithe of those things happen I see no impetus on either side to retire or buy him out.

it could happen, like I said anything is possible, but that's a lot of coin to walk from.

the frustrating part of it is that Jeff Wilpon said the team still counts wright's contract in the payroll even with the 75% discount because "the team still has to pay the insurance premiums and there's the chance Wright could play and they don't want to get caught over budget".

I get it, but it's frustrating.


Sadly the Mets include the entire salary in their yearly budget so the fans "discount" 15 million but the Mets do not.
Yeah god forbid the mets get caught overbudget  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/6/2018 10:06 am : link
That budget is just so important when it's their own money they're spending.
I know they do  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 10:07 am : link
that's what I meant by it being frustrating, I read Jeff Wilpon's words.

Signing Frazier though sort of indicates they're at least not going in to the season penciling Wright in as 3B with no backup plan.

Frazier is also a righty and can play 1B too.

I feel like the Frazier signing more likely than not banishes Smith to AAA (if he wasn't already there) and might also spell the end of Flores as a Met.

fan favorite, but never got a chance IMO.
The Mets made a great move  
SethFromAstoria : 2/6/2018 10:10 am : link
have signed a few of the better free agents. Spent more than most teams


Actually if you dont like spending this much money for 2 years for this player you are a fucking moronic toolbag. Come argue with me because i need a little sparring with a dolt. Anyone not like this common sense great move like this piece of trash on WFAN Evan Roberts?
RE: I know they do  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13823379 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
that's what I meant by it being frustrating, I read Jeff Wilpon's words.

Signing Frazier though sort of indicates they're at least not going in to the season penciling Wright in as 3B with no backup plan.

Frazier is also a righty and can play 1B too.

I feel like the Frazier signing more likely than not banishes Smith to AAA (if he wasn't already there) and might also spell the end of Flores as a Met.

fan favorite, but never got a chance IMO.


I feel like even the often absurd Mets couldn't possibly have gone into the season with ANY belief Wright would help them. He looks like a skeleton, hasn't played in years, HE openly sounds resigned to being close to done and he's 35
PS  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:12 am : link
before anyone comes to Wright's "defense". I love DW5, I just see him and even his face... you know this isn't an MLB player anymore. Sad 100% but lets face facts.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 10:13 am : link
Quote:
BIG APPLE METS
⚾️ Retweeted
#MetsFansUnited
‏ @OmarMinayaFan
15m15 minutes ago

MYTH BUSTER: Todd Frazier is *not* a strikeout machine.

2017 K%: 21.7
Career K%: 21.7
Projected: 22.8

MLB Average K% in 2017: 21.6
Frazier's rank among 144 qualified starters: 49th most (tied with Corey Seager)
Damn  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:15 am : link
I was eying him KR: Sources: #Rangers in agreement with free-agent reliever Seung Hwan Oh, pending a physical.
RE: PS  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13823384 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
before anyone comes to Wright's "defense". I love DW5, I just see him and even his face... you know this isn't an MLB player anymore. Sad 100% but lets face facts.


I can't believe how skinny he looks, almost reminded me of seeing Chris Snee a year after he stopped playing football. He looked like me. not like an NFL OL.

Wright seems frail. I don't think anyone "defends" him, at least not on here, but maybe some fans still hope for a miracle recovery. the majority though it seems are more concerned with his salary than his welfare (which is fine, I don't care about the players personally for 99% of them).
RE: RE: PS  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13823391 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823384 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


before anyone comes to Wright's "defense". I love DW5, I just see him and even his face... you know this isn't an MLB player anymore. Sad 100% but lets face facts.



I can't believe how skinny he looks, almost reminded me of seeing Chris Snee a year after he stopped playing football. He looked like me. not like an NFL OL.

Wright seems frail. I don't think anyone "defends" him, at least not on here, but maybe some fans still hope for a miracle recovery. the majority though it seems are more concerned with his salary than his welfare (which is fine, I don't care about the players personally for 99% of them).


PJ,
I really meant if anyone thought I was being mean about how thin he looks. It's like shockingly thin given what he used to look like. It's substantial.
Frazier's not a strikeout machine  
Greg from LI : 2/6/2018 10:24 am : link
He's a popup machine.
RE: RE: RE: PS  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13823396 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13823391 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13823384 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


before anyone comes to Wright's "defense". I love DW5, I just see him and even his face... you know this isn't an MLB player anymore. Sad 100% but lets face facts.



I can't believe how skinny he looks, almost reminded me of seeing Chris Snee a year after he stopped playing football. He looked like me. not like an NFL OL.

Wright seems frail. I don't think anyone "defends" him, at least not on here, but maybe some fans still hope for a miracle recovery. the majority though it seems are more concerned with his salary than his welfare (which is fine, I don't care about the players personally for 99% of them).



PJ,
I really meant if anyone thought I was being mean about how thin he looks. It's like shockingly thin given what he used to look like. It's substantial.


agree
RE: RE: PS  
Canton : 2/6/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13823391 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823384 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


before anyone comes to Wright's "defense". I love DW5, I just see him and even his face... you know this isn't an MLB player anymore. Sad 100% but lets face facts.



I can't believe how skinny he looks, almost reminded me of seeing Chris Snee a year after he stopped playing football. He looked like me. not like an NFL OL.

Wright seems frail. I don't think anyone "defends" him, at least not on here, but maybe some fans still hope for a miracle recovery. the majority though it seems are more concerned with his salary than his welfare (which is fine, I don't care about the players personally for 99% of them).



It's unbelievable the transformation..




We  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:34 am : link
all know about his health history but if we didn't the before and after would be the perfect "oh c'mon he 100% used PED's" that's how stark it is.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:40 am : link
Lynn is a very interesting case. On one hand in any other year he likely gets a lot more than he will (just based on him even being on the Mets radar). On the other hand he's routinely out-performed his FIP and it seems like that likely impacts his market/$$ as well. I don't personally value Lynn above other options enough to advocate signing him given the pick and $$ but he's an interesting case.
If the Mets can  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 10:42 am : link
add a bona fide veteran starter and a relief pitcher (preferably a lefty) I'll feel a lot better heading in to the season.

But I'm generally one of the more optimistic fans on here (relatively speaking).

Not saying the Mets can challenge the Nationals, but they should (barring catastrophic injuries...again) compete for a WC and who knows what happens then.
There  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 10:45 am : link
are a few interesting lefty reliever options that wouldn't cost much. They MUST add one though.
RE: There  
arcarsenal : 2/6/2018 11:27 am : link
In comment 13823437 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are a few interesting lefty reliever options that wouldn't cost much. They MUST add one though.


Agreed. We cannot go into this year with Blevins only. That's why I was so surprised by dealing Smoker away. Not that he was great but he had some stuff that seemed "coachable"
DW  
Csonka : 2/6/2018 11:45 am : link
Love the guy and believe he's as high character as they come. So I'll believe they are of the legal variety, but yeah he was certainly taking every legal supplement available.
I don't love any of the FA P, would rather see them swing a trade  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 11:57 am : link
like they did for Blevins a few years ago.

I'd also really like to see them continue upgrading the INF defense, OBP and add another good locker room guy in Lucroy. He may never be what he was a few years ago, but by most metrics he's still a better defensive player than TDA, he rarely strikes out and he got on base at a .345 clip (which is also his career average). Again, he may not be an all star anymore but a pesky Paul Lo Duca type seems very possible.
RE: There  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 11:58 am : link
In comment 13823437 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are a few interesting lefty reliever options that wouldn't cost much. They MUST add one though.


which guys do you like? Watson?
RE: RE: There  
debo_GIANTS : 2/6/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13823586 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13823437 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


are a few interesting lefty reliever options that wouldn't cost much. They MUST add one though.



which guys do you like? Watson?



I know it sounds crazy, but I think they should look at Ollie Perez as the 2nd lefty in the BP.
RE: RE: There  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13823586 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13823437 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


are a few interesting lefty reliever options that wouldn't cost much. They MUST add one though.



which guys do you like? Watson?


Watson is prob the biggest "name" option
I dont think we sign another LOOGY  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 12:04 pm : link
To a major league contract because we are running into 40 man issues. I see guys like DeLa Rosa and Liriano being given minor league deals or spring invites all day but Reynolds likely goes for Frazier. Presumably they are keeping an eye on one spot for a possible SP. I just think Watson is the best lefty on the market and hes meh. Is it worth losing a Guillorme over?
Mets 40 man roster  
Shecky : 2/6/2018 12:16 pm : link
Gives them some pretty good flexibility right now
Probably better than 80% of teams in baseball
RE: One bad thing about signing Lynn/Cobb  
gmen9892 : 2/6/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13823073 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Is we lose the 2nd pick and pool money. :(


For anybody that knows, when we lose this pick, is it for this upcoming draft? Or next years draft? I dont expect the Mets to be drafting this high in the next draft, so losing that pick would be less detrimental than losing one of this years.
RE: Mets 40 man roster  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13823633 Shecky said:
Quote:
Gives them some pretty good flexibility right now
Probably better than 80% of teams in baseball


Who do you see as tender candidates? Reynolds is obvious and that should happen soon. You cant move Wright to the DL until the season starts. We already lost Bradford and Smoker. A lot of the new relievers we added like Jamie Callahan arent going anywhere.
RE: RE: One bad thing about signing Lynn/Cobb  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13823635 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823073 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Is we lose the 2nd pick and pool money. :(



For anybody that knows, when we lose this pick, is it for this upcoming draft? Or next years draft? I dont expect the Mets to be drafting this high in the next draft, so losing that pick would be less detrimental than losing one of this years.


This draft and we would lose the pick for Cobb AND Lynn. Yu Darvish we would not lose a pick but thats probably extremely unlikely.
Nothing better than when Seth comes out of the abyss  
bhill410 : 2/6/2018 12:21 pm : link
To bark about something
I also think you want to keep a couple spots open in the spring...  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 12:22 pm : link
In the bullpen. We dont know how the starters are going to look yet, who might be pushed there, who might surprise... ect. I think we definitely need to invite some lefty options to camp if we can but outside of that Im pretty happy with the pen.
RE: RE: One bad thing about signing Lynn/Cobb  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13823635 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823073 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Is we lose the 2nd pick and pool money. :(



For anybody that knows, when we lose this pick, is it for this upcoming draft? Or next years draft? I dont expect the Mets to be drafting this high in the next draft, so losing that pick would be less detrimental than losing one of this years.


Upcoming draft aka a very high pick.
#46 overall  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 12:27 pm : link
pick as of now. Not worth it.
RE: I also think you want to keep a couple spots open in the spring...  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13823647 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In the bullpen. We dont know how the starters are going to look yet, who might be pushed there, who might surprise... ect. I think we definitely need to invite some lefty options to camp if we can but outside of that Im pretty happy with the pen.


No real internal lefty options outside of I guess Conlon who throws 85 and has reverse splits. Over at NYFS Conlon was the only "maybe reliever" from the left side who made out top 57 for context. Maybe a Regnault or Baldonado see Queens this year but I wouldn't count on guys like that.
Do we have any righties currently  
gmen9892 : 2/6/2018 1:03 pm : link
That are very tough on lefties in light of the Mets not signing a Loogy of note?
RE: Do we have any righties currently  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13823730 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
That are very tough on lefties in light of the Mets not signing a Loogy of note?


Yes. Robles.
LOOGY  
Mike in NY : 2/6/2018 1:17 pm : link
Can always wait until the end of Spring Training and land one cheaply from a team that has too many players out of options and are willing to make a deal for a wild card that they can send to the minors rather than losing a player for nothing
Actually I just saw in a week  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 1:18 pm : link
Wright and TJ Rivera can be added to he 60 man DL. If true, scratch everything I said. Lol
So Reynolds off for Frazier  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:28 pm : link
then 2 spots open up from DL for potential ST invite pitchers to end up making the roster. Or they go the trade route later on in ST.
Dodgers  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 1:29 pm : link
are loaded with lefties on their 40. Keep an eye on them.
I still think  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 1:29 pm : link
they need to trade an infielder.

RE: I still think  
Mike in NY : 2/6/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
they need to trade an infielder.


An injury is bound to happen somewhere and Wilmer Flores or Asdrubal Cabrera could be attractive. Flores because of his ability to mash lefties and Cabrera there is not a long term commitment so you can always move him for prospects.
lefty would be a plus, but if I were them i'd just go best arm avail  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:35 pm : link
another option in the 8th/9th inning would be big. I feel like right now they have 4 solid late inning options with Familia/Ramos/Blevins/Swarzek, which is the right number but odds are 1 of them will either miss time or have a down year. Adding a 5th guy to that mix gives them an insurance policy and allows them to not abuse Blevins the way they had to last year (especially if it's a lefty).
RE: RE: I still think  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13823800 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they need to trade an infielder.




An injury is bound to happen somewhere and Wilmer Flores or Asdrubal Cabrera could be attractive. Flores because of his ability to mash lefties and Cabrera there is not a long term commitment so you can always move him for prospects.


I agree, and both are versatile, neither should see shortstop long-term (within a season) but each can play there, as well as 3B, 2B and Flores can play 1B and while Flores mashes lefties, his numbers against righties aren't so bad you have to sit him all the time vs righties, they're just bad.

RE: I still think  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
they need to trade an infielder.


If Smith goes down to AAA Flores can get AB's at first, but I agree the market for IF'ers is definitely something they should keep an eye on. Rivera will come back at some point down the road and who knows? Smith or even Guillorme/Cecchini could earn call ups at some point.
RE: RE: I still think  
Mike in NY : 2/6/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13823817 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they need to trade an infielder.




If Smith goes down to AAA Flores can get AB's at first, but I agree the market for IF'ers is definitely something they should keep an eye on. Rivera will come back at some point down the road and who knows? Smith or even Guillorme/Cecchini could earn call ups at some point.


He is saying trade away an IF from our "surplus" not acquire one
With a lefty pitcher  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 1:44 pm : link
I can see Flores at 1B and Frazier at 3B with Cespedes giving the Mets some really good righty power.

RE: RE: RE: I still think  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13823822 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13823817 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they need to trade an infielder.




If Smith goes down to AAA Flores can get AB's at first, but I agree the market for IF'ers is definitely something they should keep an eye on. Rivera will come back at some point down the road and who knows? Smith or even Guillorme/Cecchini could earn call ups at some point.



He is saying trade away an IF from our "surplus" not acquire one


Yeah I was agreeing, except to say that I wouldn't rush to do it now. If there's a strength to deal from at some point as the season goes on it's probably one of their IF'ers. Especially if Dom Smith wins the every day 1B job out of ST or Rivera's rehab looks like it's going really well.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 1:59 pm : link
have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.
RE: I  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.


Just curious. No right or wrong. Are you for Cobb or Lynn? I dont want to lose the pick/pool money either but I think another MOR starter could be pretty big. Wait and see how guys look in the spring first maybe?
I actually think guys like Cashner and Vargas  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 2:04 pm : link
Might have to settle for spring invites.... theres just too many quality starters available and presumably their prices keep dropping.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13823861 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.



Just curious. No right or wrong. Are you for Cobb or Lynn? I dont want to lose the pick/pool money either but I think another MOR starter could be pretty big. Wait and see how guys look in the spring first maybe?


Personally I wouldn't be gungho over either guy given the pick/IFA stuff. Neither are guaranteed to be better than what we have (and I said that as a full pessimist). Lynn 1.4 fWAR in 2017 over 33 starts. Cobb 2.4. If guys like Gsellman or Lugo aren't capable of giving us that or near that then this season likely is DOA as it is. I'd sign a SP but not at the #46 pick and IFA cost. Gun to my head I prefer Cobb for 2018 but... ALWAYS hurt.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:10 pm : link
take Cashner on a minor league deal but Dave Cameron really soured me on him, he might be awful this year.
RE: RE: RE: I  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13823869 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13823861 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.



Just curious. No right or wrong. Are you for Cobb or Lynn? I dont want to lose the pick/pool money either but I think another MOR starter could be pretty big. Wait and see how guys look in the spring first maybe?



Personally I wouldn't be gungho over either guy given the pick/IFA stuff. Neither are guaranteed to be better than what we have (and I said that as a full pessimist). Lynn 1.4 fWAR in 2017 over 33 starts. Cobb 2.4. If guys like Gsellman or Lugo aren't capable of giving us that or near that then this season likely is DOA as it is. I'd sign a SP but not at the #46 pick and IFA cost. Gun to my head I prefer Cobb for 2018 but... ALWAYS hurt.


Awesome response. I see the logic behind that a million percent. Actually figured you for the opposite. Im on the line... I see the value of adding a starter on a steal too if the prices come down enough but Im bullish on some of our backend options actually.
This  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:16 pm : link
season will either be a bounce back for multiple guys or a disaster of a season where people will be wondering what Sandy has to do to lose his job. I find it hard to believe there will be much of an "in-between". At it is I think they either surprise and win 87-88 games or it's a full on dumpster fire.
Jaime  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:17 pm : link
Garcia wouldn't be an awful option.
RE: I  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.


what about a long-term deal for Lynn? I agree with you strongly on a one-year deal no way. But on a long-term deal I'd be more willing to part with pick #46.

Or Cobb.

pipe dream would be Arrieta.

I'd take a flier on guys like Clay Buchholz or Volqez on minor league deals.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13823879 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.



what about a long-term deal for Lynn? I agree with you strongly on a one-year deal no way. But on a long-term deal I'd be more willing to part with pick #46.

Or Cobb.

pipe dream would be Arrieta.

I'd take a flier on guys like Clay Buchholz or Volqez on minor league deals.


I don't see any scenario even the Mets would give up such a high pick/IFA money for a one year deal so I'm not even considering it. Cobb is always hurt and Lynn wasn't particularly great (both will be 31 this season, not old but also not particularly young) so no I wouldn't do either. Jaime Garcia 2.1 fWAR in 2017, zero compensation needed.
Arrieta  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:23 pm : link
would be a different story. He's coming off a down season and is a major risk himself but at least with him you can point to 2014-2016 89 starts 2.42 era, 9.2 k/9 and true dominance at times.
Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
Metnut : 2/6/2018 2:26 pm : link
I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.
I'd roll the dice on Garcia  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 2:27 pm : link
seems like his success is directly tied to the number of homers he gives up and once every 3 years he gets lucky and doesn't throw too many and posts an era under 4. Why not?
RE: I'd roll the dice on Garcia  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13823892 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
seems like his success is directly tied to the number of homers he gives up and once every 3 years he gets lucky and doesn't throw too many and posts an era under 4. Why not?


Just to be clear I'm not suggesting Garcia is some great pitcher. Just seems like a solid depth move that wouldn't cost a pick
RE: Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13823890 Metnut said:
Quote:
I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.


Holland is the only BP guy left that would be an upgrade, but he's almost assuredly too expensive since he opted out of a 1 year $15m deal in the first place.
RE: Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13823890 Metnut said:
Quote:
I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.


Holland.. but he reportedly just turned down 52 million
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:32 pm : link
Michael Mayer‏
@mikemayerMMO
Following Following @mikemayerMMO
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Baseball America ranked the top 30 shortstop prospects in baseball with two Mets on the list

No. 11 Andres Gimenez
No. 28 Ronny Mauricio.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:33 pm : link
Not the best sign for your system when your near consensus top prospect is the #11 SS prospect in the game per @BaseballAmerica #Mets
RE: RE: Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 2:34 pm : link
In comment 13823899 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13823890 Metnut said:


Quote:


I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.



Holland.. but he reportedly just turned down 52 million


Wow if true that he turned that down. This has been one weird offseason.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:36 pm : link
Patrick Saunders‏Verified account
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Just heard @BNightengale say on @MLBNetwork that Greg Holland turned down the same contract the #Rockies gave Wade Davis.
Holland  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:37 pm : link
predictably is a Boras client
Thank God for the Mets  
xman : 2/6/2018 3:54 pm : link
taking Frazier off the Yankees temptation list. I bet his velocity off the bat his launch angle and his BABIP are all spiraling in the wrong direction.
Boy was I wrong  
Jay on the Island : 2/7/2018 9:03 am : link
I thought if he was going to take a contract like that he would have gone back to the Yankees.
I hate the word hella  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 9:19 am : link
it's why I stopped following Marc Carig on twitter, but I like this otherwise, seems like Jeff P has been pretty fair on the mets (not that he's invented this, just tweeting it)

Quote:

Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
2m2 minutes ago

Andres Gimenezs PECOTA comps are Carlos Correa, Jurickson Profar, and Elvis Andrus. That is hella spicy.


Quote:


Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
1m1 minute ago

Functionally I assume it is just hard to find guys that were good 18 year old A-ball shortstops.
RE: Boy was I wrong  
Mike in NY : 2/7/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 13824770 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I thought if he was going to take a contract like that he would have gone back to the Yankees.


Perhaps he wants to show that he can still be an everyday player so he can get another multiyear contract after this one is over. He only turns 32 on Monday so there is that potential.
I'm not sure if this will sound optimistic or pessimistic  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2018 9:39 am : link
but in terms of prospect profile, Gimenez reminds me a little bit of Fernando Martinez (but way less PR hype from the Mets). High profile international signing with an advanced offensive approach for a young player, but not necessarily amazing raw tools. Both were in A ball at 18 years old, Martinez' power numbers were a little bit better but Gimenez plays the more valuable position and has some more speed. Both had similar low k's and respectable walk rates.

The outcome of any prospect is a roll of the dice - just like it was with Martinez when he was a total bust. A long way to go for Gimenez but I'd say the ability to make contact with the baseball is the most important tool you can have so he's got a chance.
F-Mart  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 9:44 am : link
was a legit top tier prospect (top 20 let's say), but I thought I read he developed arthritis in his knee. I can see how that would be a career killer.

Or you could say he was "Metsed"

Between F-Mart (top 20 consensus prospect) Milledge (top 15/10) prospect, and probably others (maybe big Pelf) it would be good for the Mets to have some prospect luck at some point.



RE: I hate the word hella  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:48 am : link
In comment 13824791 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
it's why I stopped following Marc Carig on twitter, but I like this otherwise, seems like Jeff P has been pretty fair on the mets (not that he's invented this, just tweeting it)



Quote:



Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
2m2 minutes ago

Andres Gimenezs PECOTA comps are Carlos Correa, Jurickson Profar, and Elvis Andrus. That is hella spicy.






Quote:




Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
1m1 minute ago

Functionally I assume it is just hard to find guys that were good 18 year old A-ball shortstops.




And yet Jeff said directly to me Gimenez is "nowhere near" a Rosario type tools wise. And there is this from Jeff's old site-

"Greg Karam says:

He was able to hold his own in full season ball as an 18-year-old, so given the state of the system this was an easy ranking. He has a smooth swing and a quick bat. Couple that with his ability to make contact and his up-the-middle defensive prowess and theres a lot to be excited about

Lukas Vlahos says:

Gimenez is really not my kind of prospect as a polish over potential guy, but hes still comfortably in the top spot because of how bad the Mets farm is at present. If everything works out, Gimenez should offer solid defense with minimal power and an occasional steal - sort of like Ruben Tejadas 2011. Thats not a piece to get particularly excited for or the sort of prospect that headlines a big trade, but it is a useful profile as a secondary piece on a contender.

Steve Sypa says:

Gimenez has upside, but, to me, he doesnt have enough upside to get me excited. When you think top prospect in the system, you generally get the sense of a guy being the best of the best. There are still a few different ways that Gimenezs career could go, but none of them scream star. If Gimenez can develop into a useful player, regardless of his upside, that will still be a big win for the system."
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I'm not sure if this will sound optimistic or pessimistic  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13824845 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
but in terms of prospect profile, Gimenez reminds me a little bit of Fernando Martinez (but way less PR hype from the Mets). High profile international signing with an advanced offensive approach for a young player, but not necessarily amazing raw tools. Both were in A ball at 18 years old, Martinez' power numbers were a little bit better but Gimenez plays the more valuable position and has some more speed. Both had similar low k's and respectable walk rates.

The outcome of any prospect is a roll of the dice - just like it was with Martinez when he was a total bust. A long way to go for Gimenez but I'd say the ability to make contact with the baseball is the most important tool you can have so he's got a chance.


F-Mart was viewed as a SPECIAL hitter/talent. He was the highest paid IFA of his class (yes the Mets actually did that). He was getting Bobby Abreu (one of the most underrated players ever) comps. F-Mart at... 17 put up an .894 OPS over 45 games in the SAL. Went into his age 18 season the #22 prospect in baseball. Gimenez is nowhere near that level. F-Mart's knee destroyed his career.
F-Mart may have had hype, but after his 18 year old season he sucked  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2018 9:51 am : link
Even in the minors he never hit more than 8 homers in a season or more than 43 RBIs - and that's as a COF. He just never developed anything beyond that solid contact ability (which is obviously where we hope Gimenez does much better).
Sickels on FMart at 17  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:54 am : link
A Dominican signed in 2005 for $1.4 million, Martinez has been pushed VERY aggressively by the Mets. His tools are very strong, and the fact that he played full-season ball at age 17 is remarkable. He looked great in the Sally
League, but was overmatched by the more polished pitchers in the Florida State League, which is hardly unexpected. I saw Martinez in the Arizona Fall League. His athleticism is impressive, and he is more polished than most players his age; making an attempt to work the count, albeit not very successfully at times. He is a fine defensive outfielder, with a strong arm and good range, although he may lose much of his speed as he matures physically. "

Talent in spades. One of the more talented busts the Mets have ever had. In the last 2 decades he and Cole (RIP and not fair to call him a "bust") are probably at the head of that list. Paul Wilson too.
RE: F-Mart may have had hype, but after his 18 year old season he sucked  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:55 am : link
In comment 13824868 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Even in the minors he never hit more than 8 homers in a season or more than 43 RBIs - and that's as a COF. He just never developed anything beyond that solid contact ability (which is obviously where we hope Gimenez does much better).


But he has ++ physical gifts. Gimenez does not. Nobody who has seen him has said otherwise.Law didn't even place Gimenez in his top 100, nor did Fangraphs.
RE: F-Mart may have had hype, but after his 18 year old season he sucked  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 9:57 am : link
In comment 13824868 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Even in the minors he never hit more than 8 homers in a season or more than 43 RBIs - and that's as a COF. He just never developed anything beyond that solid contact ability (which is obviously where we hope Gimenez does much better).


he hit 10 HR's as a 17 year old (across 3 levels in 86 game) up as high as ST Lucie.

A 17 year old in advanced A producing an almost .800 OPS while averaging 5 years younger than league age is pretty impressive to me.

Jeff P's  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:57 am : link
in-person scouting file

"Gimenez is a very polished middle infielder for his age both at the plate and in the field. Needs to add strength for the offensive profile to play up, and may lack a carrying tool in the end. Being able to play everyday at shortstop would be a big boon for the profile. Check back on that in two years as the body matures." "Realistic role 50; Everyday middle infielder"

Nobody says he sucks but he's the Mets top prospect by default. An average system he's 4-7 range.
Best  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 10:00 am : link
players I ever saw in person that were busts


Fernando, Paul Wilson, Milledge, Humber (guy had a career but he was killed by his time at Rice, should have been much better)
Do you think Gimenez being  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 10:02 am : link
blocked by Rosario at SS impacts his value at all?

I don't think they'd move him (not yet at least) if he projects as a legit SS, but do you think it hurts Gimenez value?
RE: Do you think Gimenez being  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13824899 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
blocked by Rosario at SS impacts his value at all?

I don't think they'd move him (not yet at least) if he projects as a legit SS, but do you think it hurts Gimenez value?


Too far away to worry about it. Even if you dream big he's 2-3 years away at which point we should have clarity on Rosario (and it's not as if they have a long term option at 2b anyway). Gimenez could obviously end up trade bait (as soon as this season) but they continue to sign SS's, most teams try to (Mauricio sounds intriguing) etc etc.
The Mets don't need to spend on a LH reliever  
Jay on the Island : 2/7/2018 10:37 am : link
There will be a few available after spring training. The Braves signed Sam Freeman off the scrap heap last year and he put up a great season he had a 2.55 ERA and 3.34 FIP while averaging 8.9 K/9 in a career-high 60 innings of work.

Keep an eye on Atlanta for LH relievers. They have too many on the to keep on the MLB roster already with AJ Minter, Jacob Lindgren, Sam Freeman Rex Brothers, Grant Dayton plus prospects Jesse Biddle, Adam McCreery, and Thomas Burrows knocking on the door. Rex Brothers is similar to Smoker in terms of stuff. He could thrive under Callaway.
Did  
MookGiants : 2/7/2018 10:43 am : link
ae really just get a BOOM because the Mets signed Todd Frazier?

What the hell would ZGiants do kf the Mets signed someone who was a good player instead of average
The  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 11:07 am : link
Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.
RE: The  
Shecky : 2/7/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 13825021 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.


Why do you think that is? And why do you think he is listening to them?
RE: RE: The  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 13825031 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13825021 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.



Why do you think that is? And why do you think he is listening to them?


Can you just tell us?
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13825031 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13825021 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.



Why do you think that is? And why do you think he is listening to them?


No clue. Wright would never speak out against the team so I have to assume you are implying Wright is hanging it up and they want an official announcement next week.
RE: RE: RE: The  
Shecky : 2/7/2018 11:53 am : link
In comment 13825044 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13825031 Shecky

Can you just tell us?


Cant policy
Well just my guess is  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 12:03 pm : link
and not to rehash all my prior Wright comments from the thread, but I'd be surprised if he's retiring with $47M guaranteed still there, and the Mets have no financial incentive to settle since the contract is covered 75% by insurance, so if I had to guess maybe it's to announce something like Prince Fielder did in 2016.

Though Fielder was owed $96M, I still feel like $47M is too much for anyone to reasonably be expected to walk away from.
He's likely either retiring  
Metnut : 2/7/2018 12:16 pm : link
or the Mets are announcing some sort of injury where he's not going to be expected to do "baseball activities" for a lengthy period of time. If it's the latter, then why bother, since that's what everyone had thought was the case to begin with.
Little  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 12:19 pm : link
birdy is suggesting this is the Mets new "rules" on players independently commenting on injuries and Wright not retiring.
RE: Little  
Metnut : 2/7/2018 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13825231 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
birdy is suggesting this is the Mets new "rules" on players independently commenting on injuries and Wright not retiring.


Hopefully they aren't going into Islanders style opaqueness when it comes to discussing player injuries.
hockey injuries are not revealed specifically  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 1:25 pm : link
to avoid targeting by other teams. seems sleazy, but that's hockey. It's about player safety.

the NHL does not require teams to release injury detail, they only require they do not mislead.

so all teams are like the Islanders in this regard.

I don't think baseball teams really have to worry about that.
I'd guess the commenting policy relates to the Thor/MRI controversy  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2018 1:40 pm : link
last year. I don't remember exactly how that originally got out, but I'm sure they are looking to keep most details in house. I do agree that it would be a negative over-reaction if they go so far as to not comment on timelines.
RE: I'd guess the commenting policy relates to the Thor/MRI controversy  
PhiPsi125 : 2/7/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13825386 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
last year. I don't remember exactly how that originally got out, but I'm sure they are looking to keep most details in house. I do agree that it would be a negative over-reaction if they go so far as to not comment on timelines.


So, they were annoyed about the Thor/MRI controversy and decided to keep more details in house...only to later in the season state that Robles had to leave a game because of pinched genitals.

I mean...I get it...but this franchise is run by a bunch of morons. Seriously, pinched genitals.
Timely . Longenhagen on Gimenez and why he didn't make the list  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 4:28 pm : link
Arias and Gimenez were left off this years list because theres some doubt about the upside, but theyre both pretty stable prospects wholl probably make the list as they climb the minor-league ladder.
Sounds  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 5:21 pm : link
like no Lynn/Cobb/Arrieta
Link - ( New Window )
Matt Reynolds DFA'd  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2018 5:44 pm : link
.
Man  
Modus Operandi : 2/7/2018 5:52 pm : link
If we can just add that missing swing guy...
RE: Did  
ZGiants98 : 2/7/2018 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13824980 MookGiants said:
Quote:
ae really just get a BOOM because the Mets signed Todd Frazier?

What the hell would ZGiants do kf the Mets signed someone who was a good player instead of average


3-5 WAR player the last 4-5 years for 8 million AAV is most definitely a "boom" but if you had followed any of the Mets threads all offseason I was a big proponent of adding another 2B/3B and specifically liked Frazier the best of the options being discussed.
Assuming we are adding another LH reliever like Abad the pen is  
ZGiants98 : 2/7/2018 7:53 pm : link
virtually set.

Something tells me the Mets will finally see the Fab 5 in order all together for better or worse, at least to start the year.

Syndergaard, deGrom, Matz, Harvey, Wheeler.

Closer Familia
SU Swarzak
SU Ramos
LOOGY Blevins
LOOGY Abad
7th inning type Sewald
RH Lugo
Long Montero (Out of options)

Thats already 8 guys and Robles is still on the outside looking in and we dont know if Mejia will be reinstated.

AAA

Gsellman, Flexen, Oswalt, Knapp, Regnault, (possibly a minor league vet or two).
Im not even a Gimenez fan at all..  
ZGiants98 : 2/7/2018 7:58 pm : link
He's done nothing yet. Ive been arguing against him all offseason on MMO. I had a feeling he was barely going to scrape top 100 lists when everyone was telling me he was the next phenom.

Im a much bigger proponent of the guys that are out to injury like Szapucki or somebody like Alonso. Hell, Ronnie Mauricio is going to be right behind Gimenez and might be even more toolsy/impressive.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 9:43 am : link
Bring back McHugh https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/jake-odorizzi-collin-mchugh-rays-astros-trade-interest-rumors.html
.  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 10:27 am : link
Quote:

Michael Mayer
‏ @mikemayerMMO
28s29 seconds ago

Bob Nightengale of USA Today predicts Lance Lynn will sign with Baltimore for three-years, $57 million.

Also predicts that Alex Cobb signs with Brewers at four-years, $65 million.
RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 2/8/2018 11:07 am : link
In comment 13826271 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:



Michael Mayer
‏ @mikemayerMMO
28s29 seconds ago

Bob Nightengale of USA Today predicts Lance Lynn will sign with Baltimore for three-years, $57 million.

Also predicts that Alex Cobb signs with Brewers at four-years, $65 million.




Lol, I bet the Mets were interested in them on one year deals for around $12/$13 million. And they probably that that was even too high. Knocking down those doors.

80%
Harvey and deGrom throwing bullpens  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 11:09 am : link
hopefully they're both still alive (and healthy) by the end of the season.

I wonder if deGrom loses some effectiveness with the hair cut. I thought I read batters say they lost the ball in his hair sometimes. Not sure if true or joking, but seems like it could be genuine based on his release point and how his hair was.

.  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2018 11:11 am : link
Lol, Fat Harvey is back.
Harvey's velocity in the  
Metnut : 2/8/2018 11:21 am : link
first few weeks of spring is worth about 3-4 expected wins IMO. Remember to ignore what he "tops out at" and focus on what he "settles at."
RE: Harvey's velocity in the  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 11:27 am : link
In comment 13826360 Metnut said:
Quote:
first few weeks of spring is worth about 3-4 expected wins IMO. Remember to ignore what he "tops out at" and focus on what he "settles at."


Don't think it's all that relevant until we see what his velocity looks like through roughly 5-6 innings of pitching multiple times aka we won't know a ton until in-season. "He's touching 94!!!" yeah well what's he throwing in the 5th or 6th every 5th day.
I miss the hair  
NewFakeDannyHeep : 2/8/2018 11:49 am : link
It's like we signed a random new pitcher.
RE: I miss the hair  
spike : 2/8/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13826388 NewFakeDannyHeep said:
Quote:
It's like we signed a random new pitcher.


He should wear a new wig for each game. How about long white hair?
One explanation  
Metnut : 2/8/2018 3:40 pm : link
given for the Mets farm system being ranked so low is that they've graduated a lot of guys recently. Other teams have graduated a lot of guys recently too, and have better farm systems than the Mets, so I don't really buy this excuse. But, it is still worth asking IMO whether the Mets have recently graduated a lot of promising talent.

Fangraphs just did a cool article where they did a ranking of "recently graduated players." To be on the list, the player must have graduated in 2017, and must be good enough talent wise that they would've been good enough to qualify for the top 100 prospects list if otherwise eligible.

Only 46 guys made the list. The Mets had 4. They ranked Rosario #13, Smith #30, Nimmo #36 and Gsellmen #41. While not making up for the current state of the farm system, I think it's certainly a good thing to have a nice showing on a list like this.

Cool article.


https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/ranking-2017s-graduated-prospects/ - ( New Window )
Slightly  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 3:53 pm : link
misleading because for example Gsellman, they have a 45/50 grade on him, for them that means #5 starter with #4 upside. Nimmo same thing 45/50 good for Platoon/Util upside of MLB regular, Smith 40/50....Bench/Avg Regular.
For all the Mets Farm bashing going on  
Shecky : 2/8/2018 3:54 pm : link
Never here how flat the Cubs system has fallen. People were drooling over them more so than the Mets system just a few years ago. Granted, the Cubs have traded more prospects than the Mets did, but they didnt exactly pan out. Not using this to prove a point that the Mets farm was great etc. its cyclical when you graduate player from a highly ranked farm. I still expect a top ten ranking in about a year.
RE: For all the Mets Farm bashing going on  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13826986 Shecky said:
Quote:
Never here how flat the Cubs system has fallen. People were drooling over them more so than the Mets system just a few years ago. Granted, the Cubs have traded more prospects than the Mets did, but they didnt exactly pan out. Not using this to prove a point that the Mets farm was great etc. its cyclical when you graduate player from a highly ranked farm. I still expect a top ten ranking in about a year.


Come on dude, Cubs won a world series. If the Mets had they'd have bought themselves some slack from the fans.

Cubs get a pass for a few years, and then they'll hear the same gripes from fans - if they lose. If the Mets had a poor farm system but were averaging 95 wins in the majors over 3 years fans wouldn't be so negative.

The Cubs won 92 games last year and won their division, 103 games the year before and won their division (plus the World Series), 97 games the year before that and at least on paper should be good this year too.

if the Mets averaged 95 wins over the past three seasons fans wouldn't be this ornery.

Bad comparison though.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2018 4:02 pm : link
When the Mets actually make the postseason 3 consecutive years, win over 90 games in each of them, and win a World Series, we can compare them to the Cubs.

Now?

No, sorry.
RE: For all the Mets Farm bashing going on  
DanMetroMan : 2/8/2018 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13826986 Shecky said:
Quote:
Never here how flat the Cubs system has fallen. People were drooling over them more so than the Mets system just a few years ago. Granted, the Cubs have traded more prospects than the Mets did, but they didnt exactly pan out. Not using this to prove a point that the Mets farm was great etc. its cyclical when you graduate player from a highly ranked farm. I still expect a top ten ranking in about a year.


Shecky
I love you man but the Cubs traded Jimenez

Rankings
Baseball America
Pre-2017 #14
Pre-2018 #4
Baseball America: The best source for minor league news and info
Major League Baseball
Pre-2017 #14
Pre-2018 #4
Prospect ratings from Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com
Baseball Prospectus
Pre-2017 #9
Pre-2018 #6

Gleyber Torres
Baseball America
Pre-2016 #41
Pre-2017 #5
Pre-2018 #6
Baseball America: The best source for minor league news and info
Major League Baseball
Pre-2016 #28
Pre-2017 #3
Pre-2018 #5
Prospect ratings from Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com
Baseball Prospectus
Pre-2016 #41
Pre-2017 #15
Pre-2018 #3


Dylan Cease

t Rankings
Baseball America
Pre-2017 #97
Baseball America: The best source for minor league news and info
Major League Baseball
Pre-2017 #77
Pre-2018 #61
Prospect ratings from Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com
Baseball Prospectus
Pre-2018 #47
Prospect ratings from Baseball Prospectus

Billy McKinney
Rankings
Baseball America
Pre-2015 #83
Baseball America: The best source for minor league news and info
Major League Baseball
Pre-2016 #88
Prospect ratings from Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com
Baseball Prospectus
Pre-2015 #81
Pre-2016 #74


Jeimer Candelario
Major League Baseball
Pre-2017 #96


(Among others)

It's just not a valid comparison
I will admit  
Shecky : 2/8/2018 4:37 pm : link
I did forget about Torres. But I also did exclude Fulmer, so guess we can call that a wash(ish) lol

Not sure why people are bringing up the W?L record of the major league club when I am simply comparing farm system. Cubs farm was the envy of baseball up until the very recent past.
RE: I will admit  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13827055 Shecky said:
Quote:
I did forget about Torres. But I also did exclude Fulmer, so guess we can call that a wash(ish) lol

Not sure why people are bringing up the W?L record of the major league club when I am simply comparing farm system. Cubs farm was the envy of baseball up until the very recent past.


Because IMO they're related (in terms of how I personally view them). If your major league team is consistently winning 90+ games a year I'd be ok with a subpar farm system. Realizing of course over time you'd need to improve on that poor farm, but for now you have a solid major league club).

It's only when your major league team is winning 70 games and your farm system is ranked 29th that I thinks it's a major cause for concern.
PJ, I gotcha  
Shecky : 2/8/2018 5:22 pm : link
Appreciate the explanation.
I was just talking about the farm and perception of it. But I see where you are coming from. I think we can all agree none of us give a shit about the farm if the big league club is kicking some ass.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2018 6:06 pm : link
My view is generally that one of two things need to be going on.

If the farm is weak, it should mean that the MLB-level roster is strong, has a young nucleus, and is competitive on a yearly basis.

If the MLB-level team is not so good, the farm should be relatively strong with some good prospects close to graduating.

When the MLB team loses over 90 games and has a farm system ranked near the bottom of baseball, it tells me something is wrong.
I would support this  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 8:28 pm : link
Quote:

Michael Mayer
‏ @mikemayerMMO
59s59 seconds ago

From @JonHeyman, The Mets were one team that expressed a bit of interest in two-time Cy Young winner Tim Lincecum a few months back. He is expected to throw for scouts next week.


not that it matters what I support
RE: .  
Metnut : 2/9/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 13827124 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
My view is generally that one of two things need to be going on.

If the farm is weak, it should mean that the MLB-level roster is strong, has a young nucleus, and is competitive on a yearly basis.

If the MLB-level team is not so good, the farm should be relatively strong with some good prospects close to graduating.

When the MLB team loses over 90 games and has a farm system ranked near the bottom of baseball, it tells me something is wrong.


I think your first three paragraphs are 100% right. Your last paragraph is very likely right, but IMO, 2018 really will tell us the complete story.

Maybe last year was the anomaly due to the crazy injuries. If the team wins 95 games this year, makes the playoffs again, you'd have 2 division titles and a wild card in 4 years. If the team goes 84-78 and misses the playoffs, then you'd have almost a full decade of failure by the regime with an ugly farm system to boot. IMO, 2018 really is the do-or-die year for Sandy's legacy.
I kind of agree about 2018 being do or die  
Eric on Li : 2/9/2018 9:14 am : link
obviously, most of the team is under contract for next season, but if they aren't looking like a playoff team at the deadline this year I think the quiet rumors we heard about trading JDG at the deadline last year are only going to get louder and they'll also expand to more players who are close to FA like Familia. Thor, Conforto, and Rosario are probably the only 3 guys on the team who will 100% be back next year.

Hopefully Harvey has 1 more run of greatness in him. It's going to be really sad if this generation k ends with another disappointing deadline selloff and rebuild.
I don't even think 2018  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2018 9:20 am : link
should be a thing for Sandy. He should have "died" after 2017 (his Mets career, not personally obviously) so there should be no do or die for him in 2017. This should be DePo's team.

Sandy has not drafted well, not a fan of most of his FA dealings, and he's had one trade that made him look good. He's had 7 seasons to make it his team, and it's enough for me.
You  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 9:21 am : link
would like to think that extension or not if the Mets have a bad season they would move on from Sandy but does anyone really think that would be the case outside of Sandy stepping aside?
It's  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 9:21 am : link
really disappointing to know that 99% if Sandy were to leave it's Ricco's job. That's not to disparage Ricco but that's not how normal teams operate.
If this season goes like last year I think Sandy steps aside after  
Eric on Li : 2/9/2018 9:27 am : link
and Omar takes over. I don't think Sandy wants to go through another 3-5 year rebuilding process knowing everything he now knows.
RE: If this season goes like last year I think Sandy steps aside after  
DanMetroMan : 2/9/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13827395 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and Omar takes over. I don't think Sandy wants to go through another 3-5 year rebuilding process knowing everything he now knows.


I feel like any rational fan would agree no matter "why" it happens if this is a 70-75ish win team Sandy should go. Not "injuries" or "who would have known Cespedes would hit .230!!" etc. It's shit or get off the pot time.
If they don't make the playoffs, I'd want Depo in the offseason  
Eric on Li : 2/9/2018 12:42 pm : link
I actually hope they can bring back Depo sooner than that. Maybe he'd be willing to leave the browns after the draft?

Since this is the Mets I expect they will just promote Omar, which I think would be just as depressing of a hire as Ricco for different reasons.
RE: If this season goes like last year I think Sandy steps aside after  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/9/2018 10:41 pm : link
In comment 13827395 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and Omar takes over. I don't think Sandy wants to go through another 3-5 year rebuilding process knowing everything he now knows.


Didn't he just sign a contract extension?
RE: RE: If this season goes like last year I think Sandy steps aside after  
Eric on Li : 2/10/2018 12:35 am : link
In comment 13828136 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13827395 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and Omar takes over. I don't think Sandy wants to go through another 3-5 year rebuilding process knowing everything he now knows.



Didn't he just sign a contract extension?


They never publicly announced terms of the extension (see the article below) and right afterwards they announced the Minaya deal, which clearly had Wilpon fingerprints all over it. If the team wins i'm sure it will remain status quo, but if they bomb again I think Sandy is the first one off the bus. Probably willingly since i'm sure there won't be a spending increase on the horizon.
Mystery surrounding the Mets new deal with Sandy Alderson - ( New Window )
RE: For all the Mets Farm bashing going on  
Jay on the Island : 2/10/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 13826986 Shecky said:
Quote:
Never here how flat the Cubs system has fallen. People were drooling over them more so than the Mets system just a few years ago. Granted, the Cubs have traded more prospects than the Mets did, but they didnt exactly pan out. Not using this to prove a point that the Mets farm was great etc. its cyclical when you graduate player from a highly ranked farm. I still expect a top ten ranking in about a year.

The Cubs system has graduated Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber, Albert Almora, Ian Happ, Willson Contreras, and Victor Caratini recently so of course their farm system is going to be weak. That doesn't even include them trading away former top 10 prospects Torres and Jimenez plus top 100 prospect Dylan Cease. It is pretty incredible that they hit on so many position players.
Plus the Cubs do this:  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 2:52 pm : link
Quote:

Ken Rosenthal
‏Verified account @Ken_Rosenthal
41s42 seconds ago

BREAKING: Yu Darvish to #Cubs, six year-deal in $150M range, sources tell The Athletic. Pending physical.
This sounds really weird if true  
pjcas18 : 2/11/2018 9:02 pm : link
Quote:
Anthony DiComo‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo

Zack Wheeler told the New York Post he has spent the last six months injecting a bone growth drug into his stomach, daily, in an attempt to prevent injury.

But yes the Mets definitely have enough starting pitching depth.
RE: This sounds really weird if true  
PhiPsi125 : 2/11/2018 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13829451 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Anthony DiComo‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo

Zack Wheeler told the New York Post he has spent the last six months injecting a bone growth drug into his stomach, daily, in an attempt to prevent injury.

But yes the Mets definitely have enough starting pitching depth.




Yup, this is right up there with pinched genitals. WTF? Why even let information like this out in the public? Jay Horowitz and the Mets are the absolute worst at public relations.
RE: RE: This sounds really weird if true  
jpkmets : 2/11/2018 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13829458 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13829451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:




Quote:


Anthony DiComo‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo

Zack Wheeler told the New York Post he has spent the last six months injecting a bone growth drug into his stomach, daily, in an attempt to prevent injury.

But yes the Mets definitely have enough starting pitching depth.






Yup, this is right up there with pinched genitals. WTF? Why even let information like this out in the public? Jay Horowitz and the Mets are the absolute worst at public relations.


He actually volunteered the information to Kevin Kernan of the Post, so I wouldn't fault Jay Horowitz here.

It's not an unusual medicine, but it's usually used for osteoporosis in older people. Interesting that Wheeler would be using it. Like to hear more about what they are trying to treat.
RE: RE: RE: This sounds really weird if true  
PhiPsi125 : 2/11/2018 9:35 pm : link
In comment 13829465 jpkmets said:
Quote:
In comment 13829458 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13829451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:




Quote:


Anthony DiComo‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo

Zack Wheeler told the New York Post he has spent the last six months injecting a bone growth drug into his stomach, daily, in an attempt to prevent injury.

But yes the Mets definitely have enough starting pitching depth.






Yup, this is right up there with pinched genitals. WTF? Why even let information like this out in the public? Jay Horowitz and the Mets are the absolute worst at public relations.



He actually volunteered the information to Kevin Kernan of the Post, so I wouldn't fault Jay Horowitz here.

It's not an unusual medicine, but it's usually used for osteoporosis in older people. Interesting that Wheeler would be using it. Like to hear more about what they are trying to treat.


Its absolutely on Jay Horowitz. He runs public relations for the Mets. When your team is as much of a PR mess as the Mets, you tell your players to shut the fuck up and not offer any medical information to the press. But the Mets are run by a bunch of clowns so this is no surprise.
It's pretty simple really...  
Torrag : 2/11/2018 9:50 pm : link
...if the Mets get a relatively healthy season from the pitching staff they can contend for a playoff spot. If not they'll suck. The odds aren't good that will happen based on track record combined with workload.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This sounds really weird if true  
Section331 : 2/12/2018 9:01 am : link
In comment 13829472 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:

Its absolutely on Jay Horowitz. He runs public relations for the Mets. When your team is as much of a PR mess as the Mets, you tell your players to shut the fuck up and not offer any medical information to the press. But the Mets are run by a bunch of clowns so this is no surprise.


I agree. Jay Horowitz is fawned over by the media, but he is really bad at his job. I know a few people close to the team, and they all say he is a complete a-hole. But you get Gary, Keith and Ron fawning all over him, and everyone thinks he's great.
Phi re gag order  
Shecky : 2/12/2018 9:07 am : link
Not saying you were included or not. But you can see the catch 22 Im sure. Just last week people were up in arms that Wright wouldnt talk. Now today people are up in arms that a player DID talk. Literally a no win situation, huh?
Mets  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 9:11 am : link
interested in Bud Norris per Marc Carig
For the record I don't care who talked  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 9:39 am : link
to the media and who didn't.

I do think the Mets dealings with the media and injuries needs more control because they always seem to look bad, when I get the sense they are under-playing injuries then losing players for long periods of time for what was reported as a minor injury. Makes them look inept.

But I shared this not for any reason other than because injecting yourself in the stomach with a bone growth drug every day so you can play baseball sounds illegal (maybe just the words "growth hormone") and sounds like your career is probably (or possibly) over and you're grasping at remedies (in my completely amateur arm chair doctor opinion).
For  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 10:02 am : link
me a bigger red flag with Wheeler is how little you have heard regarding him from the Mets or even in general. Matz/Thor/Harvey/DeGrom have been mentioned pretty frequently. Wheeler almost radio silence.
No doubt  
Shecky : 2/12/2018 10:02 am : link
Mets are a historically bad team in dealing with injuries/media. No argument there.

I wouldnt e a toy say the sky is falling re Wheeler, he isnt the first player to do this.
RE: For  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 13829685 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
me a bigger red flag with Wheeler is how little you have heard regarding him from the Mets or even in general. Matz/Thor/Harvey/DeGrom have been mentioned pretty frequently. Wheeler almost radio silence.

I saw a spring training picture with Harvey, Matz, deGrom and Thor and it was talking about the 4 being healthy all at the same time for one of the first times.

I thought it was strange no mention of Wheeler.
RE: No doubt  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13829687 Shecky said:
Quote:
Mets are a historically bad team in dealing with injuries/media. No argument there.

I wouldnt e a toy say the sky is falling re Wheeler, he isnt the first player to do this.


Absolutely, I have no medical basis or comparison, just the concept sounds bad.

Hopefully Wheeler put on weight. Looked like a strong wind could blow him over last time I saw him on the mound.
Ill say it, though I shouldnt  
Shecky : 2/12/2018 10:11 am : link
Im becoming much, much more optimistic for this upcoming season.
Kind  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 10:11 am : link
of a silly tweet

"Mike Puma

Verified account

@NYPost_Mets
10m10 minutes ago
More
Mickey Callaway was out giving mechanical tips to Steven Matz. ... certainly something that wasn't seen from Terry Collins, Jerry Manuel, Willie Randolph, etc."

I think it would be strange if Callaway didn't have more interaction with the pitchers than the others.. he's a former pitcher and pitching coach brought in in-part because of our SP's.
I read some pretty encouraging comments  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:16 am : link
from Matz, saying how this is the first spring training he's felt healthy physically and mentally.

I know you hear every year how player X is in the best shape of their lives, blah blah, but I have never heard that from Matz.

Also funny was hearing Gsellman's comments on Thor:

"No, Noah is just not athletic, he's like a fat guy running in flip flops"

Matz might be the most pivotal player of the rotation after Thor and deGrom. (the pivot being a successful season or not).

Not going out on much of a limb, but a lefty with is talent, if he can be consistent and healthy for a full seasons takes all the pressure off Harvey, Wheeler, Gsellman, Lugo, Montero or whoever they tag for the final two rotation spots.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 10:30 am : link
think the organization oddly both forced Barwis stuff on some guys but also let others have too much freedom. Thor apparently trained with Gsellman last off-season but kind of "free styled" their workouts. Maybe the injury/Gsellman sucking was unrelated but what does Syndergaard know about training? Hopefully this year is different.
RE: Mets  
Metnut : 2/12/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13829652 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
interested in Bud Norris per Marc Carig


He just signed with the STL Cards.

He'd have been an upgrade to have on our roster, but this team really needs another lefthanded bullpen arm. They are a Blevins injury away from a complete disaster on that front.
WEll  
spike : 2/12/2018 10:50 am : link
They had Josh Smoker but gave him up
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13829717 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think the organization oddly both forced Barwis stuff on some guys but also let others have too much freedom. Thor apparently trained with Gsellman last off-season but kind of "free styled" their workouts. Maybe the injury/Gsellman sucking was unrelated but what does Syndergaard know about training? Hopefully this year is different.


In 2015 when Thor first came up there was an article talked about how much he worked out lifting and doing crossfit type workouts and Harvey of all people was quoted in talking about how he had learned from experience you can't overdo workouts in between starts. Point being that I think your point is dead on that they took far too long to take a control position on off the field workouts from an organizational level.
RE: WEll  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13829737 spike said:
Quote:
They had Josh Smoker but gave him up


Smoker got a lot of chances and just never put it together. Maybe he figures it out but losing guys like him is what it is if it's because you are signing better players.
Kipnis  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 12:05 pm : link
for "a controllable RH reliever" was killed by ownership over money.
RE: This sounds really weird if true  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/12/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13829451 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

Zack Wheeler told the New York Post he has spent the last six months injecting a bone growth drug into his stomach, daily, in an attempt to prevent injury.



RE: Kipnis  
arcarsenal : 2/12/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13829848 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for "a controllable RH reliever" was killed by ownership over money.


Of course.
RE: RE: This sounds really weird if true  
adamg : 2/12/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13829870 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13829451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



Zack Wheeler told the New York Post he has spent the last six months injecting a bone growth drug into his stomach, daily, in an attempt to prevent injury.







Vitamin D?
Harvey  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 12:29 pm : link
left here without comment...

.  
arcarsenal : 2/12/2018 12:37 pm : link
Harvey was kinda chubby in 2015, wasn't he?

And then he looked slimmed down last year and sucked.

Maybe Fatt Harvey isn't the worst thing. Who knows.
Harvey's healthiest year (arguably) was when he was heaviest  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 12:40 pm : link
I don't think laziness is his problem and I probably trust Boras more in terms of getting his clients on an optimal programs for their performance than the Mets FO.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13829897 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Harvey was kinda chubby in 2015, wasn't he?

And then he looked slimmed down last year and sucked.

Maybe Fatt Harvey isn't the worst thing. Who knows.


Correct - and he intentionally added that weight in 2015 because he thought it would help him avoid injury.
Matt Harvey says he'll pitch at heavier weight, alter routine for 2015 - ( New Window )
He doesn't even look that fat  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 12:47 pm : link
I've read most beat writers who see him personally say he looks good.

And check out this picture from Josh Beckett near the end of his tenure in Boston. It's always the pitching image with shirt blowing up, but Beckett looks way more fat than Harvey here. I only share this Beckett image because I remember the same comments, only Beckett wasn't even that fat

But  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 12:55 pm : link
notice I didn't even mention his weight and everyone focused on it lol
RE: Phi re gag order  
PhiPsi125 : 2/12/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13829647 Shecky said:
Quote:
Not saying you were included or not. But you can see the catch 22 Im sure. Just last week people were up in arms that Wright wouldnt talk. Now today people are up in arms that a player DID talk. Literally a no win situation, huh?


Hey, Sheck, sorry for the late response. Busy morning.

I really don't see it as a catch 22. The is the entire purpose of Jay Horowitz' job. To determine when to say something, when to not say something, and who should/shouldn't be saying things. We never hear from this guy. When stuff is put out there, it's a joke. And players seem to be able to say whatever they want.

A player should not be telling the media that they are injecting bone growth hormones every day for 6 months. It looks bad (if not illegal), could invite bigger problems with MLB, and probably doesn't do much for the players trade value. It's just stupid.

Hey, I'm not losing sleep over this but it's just another example of how this team can't get out of its own way. And that the ignorance in the FO is epidemic.
Keep  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 1:02 pm : link
hearing Anthony Kay has looked good. That would be really nice.
RE: But  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13829930 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
notice I didn't even mention his weight and everyone focused on it lol


yea but isn't that a little "water is wet"? If someone posted a pic of him with a bloody nose we know exactly where that discussion would go too.
RE: RE: But  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13829963 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13829930 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


notice I didn't even mention his weight and everyone focused on it lol



yea but isn't that a little "water is wet"? If someone posted a pic of him with a bloody nose we know exactly where that discussion would go too.


But this is just a picture of a pitcher pitching. A bloody nose the obvious focus would be the blood. Not mentioning that would be ridiculous.
Someone commented  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 1:16 pm : link
earlier in the thread on a picture of Harvey that he looked fat, and he wasn't having his gut exposed.

I don't see it and said as much.
PS  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 1:16 pm : link
I have no idea what he's up to now but Matt Harvey 100% was a "partier" earlier in his career, I can say that with knowledge 2nd hand (but someone who would never lie to me).
Bud Norris  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 1:26 pm : link
to Cards on a 1-year deal, per twitter
speaking of not fat  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 2:15 pm : link
(for now)

Quote:
New York Mets‏Verified account @Mets

.@TheRealSmith22 has arrived! 😀 #SpringTraining


the production they get out of 1B is 1 of the big wild cards this year  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 3:02 pm : link
There aren't a lot of positions where there's such a wide range of possible outcomes. Whoever starts out of Smith or AGon could hit 7th/8th with negative value defense, rotating ABs with Flores, or either one could step up and hit in the middle of the order while also upgrading the defense. Thinner Smith is a total unknown but you don't have to go back too far to 2016 postseason when Adrian Gonzalez was hitting cleanup for the 91 win team that knocked the Nats out of the playoffs. A slight bounce back year at 35 isn't totally unthinkable, nor an emergence from a very recently graduated top prospect. Just accounting for defense, last year Mets 1B were a -10 in DRS so there's a lot of room for improvement.
Worth  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 3:16 pm : link
noting however that both Smith and Gonzalez posted negative DRS in 2017 (Smith an AWFUL -7).
,  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 3:27 pm : link
Robert Murray‏Verified account
@RobertMurrayFRS
Following Following @RobertMurrayFRS
More
Sources: LHP Fernando Abad getting close to signing. Multiple teams involved, could get done in next few days.
I wonder if slimmed  
Metnut : 2/12/2018 3:36 pm : link
down Smith will be any better on defense.
Dom looks great. Glad he got that under control  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/12/2018 3:50 pm : link
.
RE: Dom looks great. Glad he got that under control  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13830166 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


This will be the third consecutive season he's come to camp thin/thinner. In-season is where we need to monitor.
This is from  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 3:57 pm : link
2/17... 2017

"PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Mexican food was Dominic Smith's vice. When Smith wanted to indulge, he would head to the nearest local spot in Southern California for a carne asada wet burrito, smothered in cheese.

That habit disappeared this winter, when the Mets' second-ranked prospect reported to Mike Barwis' team-sponsored fitness facility in Michigan for an offseason full of workouts. He traded in burritos and hamburgers for smoothies and leafy greens. By the time Smith reported to Mets camp, he had shed 24 pounds, dropping down from his high point of around 258.

"There were a lot of weekends where I wanted to sneak out and get a burger or two," Smith said. "But I really just told myself: 'Work hard. Fast food's not good for you.' Now if I eat a burger or something, I feel really sluggish. That healthy food does so much for your body, gives you energy -- and I just feel great."

Color Terry Collins impressed. The Mets manager took notice of Smith's slimmed-down figure immediately, knowing how much it figures to help him on defense. Though Smith broke out with a .302 average and 14 home runs last season at Double-A Binghamton, the Mets feel he still has room for growth if he wants to replace Lucas Duda as their starting first baseman, once Duda's contract expires in 2018."

This is from 2/27...2016.

At a younger age, it was harder for me to say no, Smith said in reference to the foods he likes. Now Im starting to pay attention and realize what I really need, as opposed to what I want.

I had never heard  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 4:10 pm : link
of any defensive concerns with Smith, in fact I'd always read it was a strength, until his major league small sample last year.

Is that wrong? Am I mis-remembering?

this is from BA right before he was called up in August, so you'd figure any significant issues were uncovered.

Quote:
Smith is hefty at 6-foot, 239 pounds but moves around the bag well at first base and has soft hands that allow him to pick balls out of the dirt. His range is adequate but not great.
Read more at https://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/expect-dominic-smith/#MdApzv5dHWScHi7I.99
RE: I had never heard  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13830195 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
of any defensive concerns with Smith, in fact I'd always read it was a strength, until his major league small sample last year.

Is that wrong? Am I mis-remembering?

this is from BA right before he was called up in August, so you'd figure any significant issues were uncovered.



Quote:


Smith is hefty at 6-foot, 239 pounds but moves around the bag well at first base and has soft hands that allow him to pick balls out of the dirt. His range is adequate but not great.
Read more at https://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/expect-dominic-smith/#MdApzv5dHWScHi7I.99



Yup. Rep has always been good. Was awful during his MLB time. The hope is it was weight related but range is more important than arm at 1b by a long shot (he has a great arm) his range and flexibility with the big club was very, very bad. 378 innings -7 DRS, Duda 792 innings at 1b -1
Well he definitely doesn't look  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 4:17 pm : link
239 pounds in that picture, he looks like he's 200 or less. I'm his height or slightly taller and he's thinner than me.

hopefully he keeps it off and that helps his defense and hopefully he beats out A-gone in spring training.
RE: Well he definitely doesn't look  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13830206 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
239 pounds in that picture, he looks like he's 200 or less. I'm his height or slightly taller and he's thinner than me.

hopefully he keeps it off and that helps his defense and hopefully he beats out A-gone in spring training.


There is no chance he's 200 or less, he was 226 in camp last year when they were raving about how much better he looked but 250 to end 2017, they are saying he lost 20 pounds so he's probably about 230 now.
Smith  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 4:21 pm : link
says he's 224 per his interview with Ken Davidoff
Well he looks thin  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 4:26 pm : link
for someone whose barely 6 feet.

AJ Ramos talking about living with Stanton this year. Seems weird, and I know they were teammates in MIA, but this is funny.

Quote:

Matt Ehalt
‏Verified account @MattEhalt
3m3 minutes ago

AJ Ramos on living with Giancarlo Stanton: "We're still looking at that. We're still looking at places. We might live together. Definitely for the Subway Series I'm going to be setting some traps for him. You know, might mess up his sleep a little bit, stuff like that."
Here's  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 4:28 pm : link
the quote just in case anyone cared

"I feel more athletic than Ive ever been, Smith told The Post on Tuesday, a few hours after showing off his pop-up slide form. In spring training, Ive always looked the part, but as far as my mobility and loosening up some hips and being more flexible, more agile as an athlete, I feel like this is the most advanced Ive been for sure in my career.

Holy cow, does he look it. The young man whom a scout once anonymously compared to Tony Gwynn, when Tony Gwynn was 40 years old said hes weighing in at 224 pounds, down about 30 pounds from the end of the 2017 season, and that seems about right. Hes far more compact and limber."

and he's about 5'11 in actuality
Do baseball players  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 4:34 pm : link
have an annual weigh-in/physical like football players do when they get to camp?
RE: Do baseball players  
DanMetroMan : 2/12/2018 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13830229 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
have an annual weigh-in/physical like football players do when they get to camp?


To my knowledge no but one would assume someone like Smith is on a different "program" than DeGrom etc. I mean Sandy openly talked about his weight. I mean just looking at him you can see he's much thinner, I doubt they said "get to 224 or else" but likely more of a "good job all the way down to 224" and a baseline to compare him to in 2-3 months
Yes. There are physicals given  
Shecky : 2/12/2018 5:04 pm : link
When they arrive
Ramos and Stanton are extremely tight  
Shecky : 2/12/2018 5:05 pm : link
He was heartbroken when he was traded here.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 9:11 pm : link
Quote:

Anthony DiComo
‏Verified account @AnthonyDiComo
12s13 seconds ago

Matt Reynolds, whom the Mets designated for assignment last week to make room for Todd Frazier, has been traded to the Nationals.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/12/2018 9:23 pm : link
Watch Matt Reynolds suddenly transform into some sort of legit MLB player now...
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13830521 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Watch Matt Reynolds suddenly transform into some sort of legit MLB player now...


At SS.

Reynolds to Murphy, killer double play combo in the field and two Babe Ruth clones at the plate.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/12/2018 9:29 pm : link
In comment 13830524 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13830521 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Watch Matt Reynolds suddenly transform into some sort of legit MLB player now...



At SS.

Reynolds to Murphy, killer double play combo in the field and two Babe Ruth clones at the plate.


Honestly would not surprise me at all.
Reynolds having trade value is more surprising than getting Blevins  
Eric on Li : 2/12/2018 10:24 pm : link
for MDD.
RE: .  
Metnut : 2/13/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 13830521 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Watch Matt Reynolds suddenly transform into some sort of legit MLB player now...


I'm not holding my breath on that one.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2018 9:43 am : link
both all-in on Mickey and "okay Mets enough about the manager".
Just read Carig's article from yesterday re: Lynn/Cobb  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 10:08 am : link
what am I missing that makes them appealing? Obviously losing the draft pick and international $ is a mark against them. I'd have no interest whatsoever in losing a draft pick that's comparable to the one they used last year to draft probably the most exciting prospect in the system (Vientos). I'd rather sign one of the low cost lesser guys for depth and then explore the trade market if/when injuries hit.
RE: Just read Carig's article from yesterday re: Lynn/Cobb  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13830795 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
what am I missing that makes them appealing? Obviously losing the draft pick and international $ is a mark against them. I'd have no interest whatsoever in losing a draft pick that's comparable to the one they used last year to draft probably the most exciting prospect in the system (Vientos). I'd rather sign one of the low cost lesser guys for depth and then explore the trade market if/when injuries hit.


100% agree. #46 pick in the draft? No Thank you. Jaime Garcia type please. Even a Garcia AND a Tillman (yes he had an awful year) or a Garcia AND a Lincecum etc. It would be a rare time I'd trash them FOR spending.
RE: .  
spike : 2/13/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 13830521 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Watch Matt Reynolds suddenly transform into some sort of legit MLB player now...


Maybe if he reworks his swing like J Turner did
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 13830841 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 13830521 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Watch Matt Reynolds suddenly transform into some sort of legit MLB player now...



Maybe if he reworks his swing like J Turner did


What people don't seem to realize is that Turner was a big-time hitter in the minors. Hit .338 (.921 OPS) his first pro season, .307 his second
lol  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2018 10:38 am : link
Mike Puma @NYPost_Mets
2m
Mets need a Triple-A centerfielder; are considering a reunion with Matt den Dekker.
MDD  
Shecky : 2/13/2018 10:52 am : link
Is one of the nicest kids ever in the system. With an amazing family. Always pulled for him, would love to see home come back home.

Reynolds was definitely one of my big misses. Will never forget hearing some smacks coming from a field behind me. Walk over, its reynolds crushing liners to the gals. Off a kid named Matz. Ten minutes and I became. A believer. Wish him luck in DC.

Omar looks like he found the weight that Don seems to have lost.

I feel way more optimistic than most around here. Bout scared shit with Swarzak. Hope Im as wrong about him as I consistently was about Reed.

Feeling around here the last week has definitely felt different. In hindsight, a lot of the kids felt like it would be easy to get back to the big games. Almost enlightened. Now, they seemed pissed, almost disrespected. Like theyd rather quietly prove people wrong. Quietly though. I like it.
Kirk Nieuwenhuis  
pjcas18 : 2/13/2018 10:56 am : link
unavailable?

Isn't there some other ex-Met who can fill that role?

Alejandro de Aza?
OF  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2018 11:13 am : link
depth is UNBELIEVABLY thin in the upper minors.


Zack Borenstein
Kevin Kaczmarski
Peter Biondi
Champ Stuart

Wow.
Giants  
DanMetroMan : 2/13/2018 11:20 am : link
in talks with Watson. I really like the off-season they have had.
RE: MDD  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13830873 Shecky said:
Quote:
Is one of the nicest kids ever in the system. With an amazing family. Always pulled for him, would love to see home come back home.

Reynolds was definitely one of my big misses. Will never forget hearing some smacks coming from a field behind me. Walk over, its reynolds crushing liners to the gals. Off a kid named Matz. Ten minutes and I became. A believer. Wish him luck in DC.

Omar looks like he found the weight that Don seems to have lost.

I feel way more optimistic than most around here. Bout scared shit with Swarzak. Hope Im as wrong about him as I consistently was about Reed.

Feeling around here the last week has definitely felt different. In hindsight, a lot of the kids felt like it would be easy to get back to the big games. Almost enlightened. Now, they seemed pissed, almost disrespected. Like theyd rather quietly prove people wrong. Quietly though. I like it.


Gotta be honest, adding Frazier really solidified some optimism for me. I don't love him, but he's a solid player at a position they desperately needed. I've always had some optimism that Harvey can bounce back in his contract year, and now that they have the chance to be a pretty solid defensive infield that should help the entire pitching staff. Especially compared to last year's disaster.

I liked the Swarzak signing, but I agree with you that it's somewhat worrying that he's all they did in the BP. It's usually not a good recipe to raise expectations on a 1 year wonder, hopefully he can deliver. A little worrying that the BP is once again 1 injury away from being desperately thin. At least they have a half dozen lotto tickets worth of guys who can "come out of nowhere" and possibly surprise.
RE: Giants  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13830944 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
in talks with Watson. I really like the off-season they have had.


Yeah I admire that they knew they had a group that has a quickly closing window and they went for it with some risky adds. Will Longoria and Mccutchen turn back the clock? Probably not. They will likely end up regretting the Longoria deal. But they are still solid players to go along with Posey, Panik, Belt and a pitching staff led by Bumgarner.
RE: RE: MDD  
pjcas18 : 2/13/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13831090 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13830873 Shecky said:


Quote:


Is one of the nicest kids ever in the system. With an amazing family. Always pulled for him, would love to see home come back home.

Reynolds was definitely one of my big misses. Will never forget hearing some smacks coming from a field behind me. Walk over, its reynolds crushing liners to the gals. Off a kid named Matz. Ten minutes and I became. A believer. Wish him luck in DC.

Omar looks like he found the weight that Don seems to have lost.

I feel way more optimistic than most around here. Bout scared shit with Swarzak. Hope Im as wrong about him as I consistently was about Reed.

Feeling around here the last week has definitely felt different. In hindsight, a lot of the kids felt like it would be easy to get back to the big games. Almost enlightened. Now, they seemed pissed, almost disrespected. Like theyd rather quietly prove people wrong. Quietly though. I like it.



Gotta be honest, adding Frazier really solidified some optimism for me. I don't love him, but he's a solid player at a position they desperately needed. I've always had some optimism that Harvey can bounce back in his contract year, and now that they have the chance to be a pretty solid defensive infield that should help the entire pitching staff. Especially compared to last year's disaster.

I liked the Swarzak signing, but I agree with you that it's somewhat worrying that he's all they did in the BP. It's usually not a good recipe to raise expectations on a 1 year wonder, hopefully he can deliver. A little worrying that the BP is once again 1 injury away from being desperately thin. At least they have a half dozen lotto tickets worth of guys who can "come out of nowhere" and possibly surprise.


I believe now Matz is the rotation key, not Harvey. That lefty who can throw mid 90's following Thor and DeGrom.

If, and I know it's a huge if because he hasn't yet, Matz can be healthy and effective for a full season, that's as good a top 3 in the league (depending on Matz's potential).

Considering Harvey your #4 changes expectations IMO (maybe not for him personally, but as a fan for me it does) and then out of Wheeler, Gsellman, Lugo and Montero you need to get 28 - 32 starts out of starters 5 - 8 to be your 5th starter.

sure it never works out that way, because there will be injuries and poor performances, but truth is we haven't seen these guys healthy in so long, who knows what to expect.

Matz has never made more than 22 starts.

Harvey has never made more than 29 starts and only has two seasons over 20.

Wheeler made 32 starts one season, but has only one season more than 17 starts.


I view Harvey/Matz/Wheeler similarly and just hope 1 steps up  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 2:15 pm : link
to be a consistent third pitcher. If I was picking which one I felt best about it would probably be Matz because he's pitched well most recently but he's never been able to stay healthy so it's close between him and Harvey. Wheeler is a distant third and unless he's dealing in the spring I'd be tempted to just keep him in extended spring training if he's outpitched by Gsellman, Lugo or Montero.

Every year most teams have somewhere between 10-12 guys who start some games over the course of the season so I'm not as specifically concerned with the back end IF they can have 3 consistent starters to lean on consistently. Would love to add a veteran to the competition like Garcia but I don't think it's make or break.
Dicomo  
Metnut : 2/13/2018 4:26 pm : link
saying Mets are going to give Flores some reps in the OF this spring.

Can't hurt to try. He'll likely be a better OF than Jay Bruce just by default.
RE: Dicomo  
PhiPsi125 : 2/13/2018 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13831475 Metnut said:
Quote:
saying Mets are going to give Flores some reps in the OF this spring.

Can't hurt to try. He'll likely be a better OF than Jay Bruce just by default.


This likely wont end well. Just like trying Murphy and Duda in the outfield.

Just put the kid at 2nd base already. They just refuse to give this kid a shot. And now they are going to give him reps in the crowded outfield? Eff the Mets.
supposedly they plan on carrying 4 OF/8 RP so that's why they're  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 4:55 pm : link
giving Flores and Reyes reps in the OF. I do agree that Flores in the OF sounds like a recipe for disaster.

They're also supposedly toying with the idea of batting Frazier leadoff. It would probably be better if they just let the winner of the CF battle between Nimmo/Lagares hit there. Both of those guys deserve a look while Conforto is out and if either are ever going to hit enough to be regulars, the leadoff spot is as good as any.
2B should be an honest  
Metnut : 2/13/2018 5:07 pm : link
camp battle. If Cabrera or even Reyes looks like the best player, then go ahead and let them get the majority of starts on opening day. But if Wilmer looks like the best, he should be the opening day 2B period.

RE: 2B should be an honest  
Eric on Li : 2/13/2018 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13831517 Metnut said:
Quote:
camp battle. If Cabrera or even Reyes looks like the best player, then go ahead and let them get the majority of starts on opening day. But if Wilmer looks like the best, he should be the opening day 2B period.


I agree. In hindsight they may even regret spending the extra few million to pickup Cabrera's option. Had they not done that perhaps they would have been able to add Kipinis. Or put the money towards bringing back Reed. Cabrera is a decent player and if he wins the job, great, but that's one spot where they have some cheap internal options.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 6:13 pm : link
Reyes getting OF reps I think is worth trying... Flores would be a mess out there. I really hope they don't do that.
What's the over-under on Wilmer being the next  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/13/2018 8:01 pm : link
Justin Turner? I'm pretty convinced he's going to turn into Miguel Cabrera the second he puts on a different hat.
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