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NFT: Todd Frazier is a Met

ZGiants98 : 2/5/2018 8:47 pm
Boom... Love this move!
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RE: I still think  
Mike in NY : 2/6/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
they need to trade an infielder.


An injury is bound to happen somewhere and Wilmer Flores or Asdrubal Cabrera could be attractive. Flores because of his ability to mash lefties and Cabrera there is not a long term commitment so you can always move him for prospects.
lefty would be a plus, but if I were them i'd just go best arm avail  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:35 pm : link
another option in the 8th/9th inning would be big. I feel like right now they have 4 solid late inning options with Familia/Ramos/Blevins/Swarzek, which is the right number but odds are 1 of them will either miss time or have a down year. Adding a 5th guy to that mix gives them an insurance policy and allows them to not abuse Blevins the way they had to last year (especially if it's a lefty).
RE: RE: I still think  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13823800 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they need to trade an infielder.




An injury is bound to happen somewhere and Wilmer Flores or Asdrubal Cabrera could be attractive. Flores because of his ability to mash lefties and Cabrera there is not a long term commitment so you can always move him for prospects.


I agree, and both are versatile, neither should see shortstop long-term (within a season) but each can play there, as well as 3B, 2B and Flores can play 1B and while Flores mashes lefties, his numbers against righties aren't so bad you have to sit him all the time vs righties, they're just bad.

RE: I still think  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
they need to trade an infielder.


If Smith goes down to AAA Flores can get AB's at first, but I agree the market for IF'ers is definitely something they should keep an eye on. Rivera will come back at some point down the road and who knows? Smith or even Guillorme/Cecchini could earn call ups at some point.
RE: RE: I still think  
Mike in NY : 2/6/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13823817 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they need to trade an infielder.




If Smith goes down to AAA Flores can get AB's at first, but I agree the market for IF'ers is definitely something they should keep an eye on. Rivera will come back at some point down the road and who knows? Smith or even Guillorme/Cecchini could earn call ups at some point.


He is saying trade away an IF from our "surplus" not acquire one
With a lefty pitcher  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 1:44 pm : link
I can see Flores at 1B and Frazier at 3B with Cespedes giving the Mets some really good righty power.

RE: RE: RE: I still think  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13823822 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13823817 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13823789 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


they need to trade an infielder.




If Smith goes down to AAA Flores can get AB's at first, but I agree the market for IF'ers is definitely something they should keep an eye on. Rivera will come back at some point down the road and who knows? Smith or even Guillorme/Cecchini could earn call ups at some point.



He is saying trade away an IF from our "surplus" not acquire one


Yeah I was agreeing, except to say that I wouldn't rush to do it now. If there's a strength to deal from at some point as the season goes on it's probably one of their IF'ers. Especially if Dom Smith wins the every day 1B job out of ST or Rivera's rehab looks like it's going really well.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 1:59 pm : link
have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.
RE: I  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.


Just curious. No right or wrong. Are you for Cobb or Lynn? I dont want to lose the pick/pool money either but I think another MOR starter could be pretty big. Wait and see how guys look in the spring first maybe?
I actually think guys like Cashner and Vargas  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 2:04 pm : link
Might have to settle for spring invites.... theres just too many quality starters available and presumably their prices keep dropping.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13823861 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.



Just curious. No right or wrong. Are you for Cobb or Lynn? I dont want to lose the pick/pool money either but I think another MOR starter could be pretty big. Wait and see how guys look in the spring first maybe?


Personally I wouldn't be gungho over either guy given the pick/IFA stuff. Neither are guaranteed to be better than what we have (and I said that as a full pessimist). Lynn 1.4 fWAR in 2017 over 33 starts. Cobb 2.4. If guys like Gsellman or Lugo aren't capable of giving us that or near that then this season likely is DOA as it is. I'd sign a SP but not at the #46 pick and IFA cost. Gun to my head I prefer Cobb for 2018 but... ALWAYS hurt.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:10 pm : link
take Cashner on a minor league deal but Dave Cameron really soured me on him, he might be awful this year.
RE: RE: RE: I  
ZGiants98 : 2/6/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13823869 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13823861 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.



Just curious. No right or wrong. Are you for Cobb or Lynn? I dont want to lose the pick/pool money either but I think another MOR starter could be pretty big. Wait and see how guys look in the spring first maybe?



Personally I wouldn't be gungho over either guy given the pick/IFA stuff. Neither are guaranteed to be better than what we have (and I said that as a full pessimist). Lynn 1.4 fWAR in 2017 over 33 starts. Cobb 2.4. If guys like Gsellman or Lugo aren't capable of giving us that or near that then this season likely is DOA as it is. I'd sign a SP but not at the #46 pick and IFA cost. Gun to my head I prefer Cobb for 2018 but... ALWAYS hurt.


Awesome response. I see the logic behind that a million percent. Actually figured you for the opposite. Im on the line... I see the value of adding a starter on a steal too if the prices come down enough but Im bullish on some of our backend options actually.
This  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:16 pm : link
season will either be a bounce back for multiple guys or a disaster of a season where people will be wondering what Sandy has to do to lose his job. I find it hard to believe there will be much of an "in-between". At it is I think they either surprise and win 87-88 games or it's a full on dumpster fire.
Jaime  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:17 pm : link
Garcia wouldn't be an awful option.
RE: I  
pjcas18 : 2/6/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.


what about a long-term deal for Lynn? I agree with you strongly on a one-year deal no way. But on a long-term deal I'd be more willing to part with pick #46.

Or Cobb.

pipe dream would be Arrieta.

I'd take a flier on guys like Clay Buchholz or Volqez on minor league deals.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13823879 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13823854 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have a hard time making an argument for Lance Lynn at the cost of #46 pick and conceivably a very solid IFA. Doesn't seem worth it.



what about a long-term deal for Lynn? I agree with you strongly on a one-year deal no way. But on a long-term deal I'd be more willing to part with pick #46.

Or Cobb.

pipe dream would be Arrieta.

I'd take a flier on guys like Clay Buchholz or Volqez on minor league deals.


I don't see any scenario even the Mets would give up such a high pick/IFA money for a one year deal so I'm not even considering it. Cobb is always hurt and Lynn wasn't particularly great (both will be 31 this season, not old but also not particularly young) so no I wouldn't do either. Jaime Garcia 2.1 fWAR in 2017, zero compensation needed.
Arrieta  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:23 pm : link
would be a different story. He's coming off a down season and is a major risk himself but at least with him you can point to 2014-2016 89 starts 2.42 era, 9.2 k/9 and true dominance at times.
Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
Metnut : 2/6/2018 2:26 pm : link
I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.
I'd roll the dice on Garcia  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 2:27 pm : link
seems like his success is directly tied to the number of homers he gives up and once every 3 years he gets lucky and doesn't throw too many and posts an era under 4. Why not?
RE: I'd roll the dice on Garcia  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13823892 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
seems like his success is directly tied to the number of homers he gives up and once every 3 years he gets lucky and doesn't throw too many and posts an era under 4. Why not?


Just to be clear I'm not suggesting Garcia is some great pitcher. Just seems like a solid depth move that wouldn't cost a pick
RE: Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13823890 Metnut said:
Quote:
I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.


Holland is the only BP guy left that would be an upgrade, but he's almost assuredly too expensive since he opted out of a 1 year $15m deal in the first place.
RE: Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13823890 Metnut said:
Quote:
I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.


Holland.. but he reportedly just turned down 52 million
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:32 pm : link
Michael Mayer‏
@mikemayerMMO
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Baseball America ranked the top 30 shortstop prospects in baseball with two Mets on the list

No. 11 Andres Gimenez
No. 28 Ronny Mauricio.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:33 pm : link
Not the best sign for your system when your near consensus top prospect is the #11 SS prospect in the game per @BaseballAmerica #Mets
RE: RE: Are there any good bullpen guys left?  
Eric on Li : 2/6/2018 2:34 pm : link
In comment 13823899 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13823890 Metnut said:


Quote:


I'd rather add a difference maker to the pen than sign another 5th starter type or give up compensation to sign a second/third tier starter type. If they want to sign Arrieta or Darvish, that's a different story but I don't think the Wilpons want to add that kind of payroll.



Holland.. but he reportedly just turned down 52 million


Wow if true that he turned that down. This has been one weird offseason.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:36 pm : link
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Just heard @BNightengale say on @MLBNetwork that Greg Holland turned down the same contract the #Rockies gave Wade Davis.
Holland  
DanMetroMan : 2/6/2018 2:37 pm : link
predictably is a Boras client
Thank God for the Mets  
xman : 2/6/2018 3:54 pm : link
taking Frazier off the Yankees temptation list. I bet his velocity off the bat his launch angle and his BABIP are all spiraling in the wrong direction.
Boy was I wrong  
Jay on the Island : 2/7/2018 9:03 am : link
I thought if he was going to take a contract like that he would have gone back to the Yankees.
I hate the word hella  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 9:19 am : link
it's why I stopped following Marc Carig on twitter, but I like this otherwise, seems like Jeff P has been pretty fair on the mets (not that he's invented this, just tweeting it)

Quote:

Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
2m2 minutes ago

Andres Gimenezs PECOTA comps are Carlos Correa, Jurickson Profar, and Elvis Andrus. That is hella spicy.


Quote:


Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
1m1 minute ago

Functionally I assume it is just hard to find guys that were good 18 year old A-ball shortstops.
RE: Boy was I wrong  
Mike in NY : 2/7/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 13824770 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I thought if he was going to take a contract like that he would have gone back to the Yankees.


Perhaps he wants to show that he can still be an everyday player so he can get another multiyear contract after this one is over. He only turns 32 on Monday so there is that potential.
I'm not sure if this will sound optimistic or pessimistic  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2018 9:39 am : link
but in terms of prospect profile, Gimenez reminds me a little bit of Fernando Martinez (but way less PR hype from the Mets). High profile international signing with an advanced offensive approach for a young player, but not necessarily amazing raw tools. Both were in A ball at 18 years old, Martinez' power numbers were a little bit better but Gimenez plays the more valuable position and has some more speed. Both had similar low k's and respectable walk rates.

The outcome of any prospect is a roll of the dice - just like it was with Martinez when he was a total bust. A long way to go for Gimenez but I'd say the ability to make contact with the baseball is the most important tool you can have so he's got a chance.
F-Mart  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 9:44 am : link
was a legit top tier prospect (top 20 let's say), but I thought I read he developed arthritis in his knee. I can see how that would be a career killer.

Or you could say he was "Metsed"

Between F-Mart (top 20 consensus prospect) Milledge (top 15/10) prospect, and probably others (maybe big Pelf) it would be good for the Mets to have some prospect luck at some point.



RE: I hate the word hella  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:48 am : link
In comment 13824791 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
it's why I stopped following Marc Carig on twitter, but I like this otherwise, seems like Jeff P has been pretty fair on the mets (not that he's invented this, just tweeting it)



Quote:



Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
2m2 minutes ago

Andres Gimenezs PECOTA comps are Carlos Correa, Jurickson Profar, and Elvis Andrus. That is hella spicy.






Quote:




Jeffrey Paternostro
‏ @jeffpaternostro
1m1 minute ago

Functionally I assume it is just hard to find guys that were good 18 year old A-ball shortstops.




And yet Jeff said directly to me Gimenez is "nowhere near" a Rosario type tools wise. And there is this from Jeff's old site-

"Greg Karam says:

He was able to hold his own in full season ball as an 18-year-old, so given the state of the system this was an easy ranking. He has a smooth swing and a quick bat. Couple that with his ability to make contact and his up-the-middle defensive prowess and theres a lot to be excited about

Lukas Vlahos says:

Gimenez is really not my kind of prospect as a polish over potential guy, but hes still comfortably in the top spot because of how bad the Mets farm is at present. If everything works out, Gimenez should offer solid defense with minimal power and an occasional steal - sort of like Ruben Tejadas 2011. Thats not a piece to get particularly excited for or the sort of prospect that headlines a big trade, but it is a useful profile as a secondary piece on a contender.

Steve Sypa says:

Gimenez has upside, but, to me, he doesnt have enough upside to get me excited. When you think top prospect in the system, you generally get the sense of a guy being the best of the best. There are still a few different ways that Gimenezs career could go, but none of them scream star. If Gimenez can develop into a useful player, regardless of his upside, that will still be a big win for the system."
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I'm not sure if this will sound optimistic or pessimistic  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13824845 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
but in terms of prospect profile, Gimenez reminds me a little bit of Fernando Martinez (but way less PR hype from the Mets). High profile international signing with an advanced offensive approach for a young player, but not necessarily amazing raw tools. Both were in A ball at 18 years old, Martinez' power numbers were a little bit better but Gimenez plays the more valuable position and has some more speed. Both had similar low k's and respectable walk rates.

The outcome of any prospect is a roll of the dice - just like it was with Martinez when he was a total bust. A long way to go for Gimenez but I'd say the ability to make contact with the baseball is the most important tool you can have so he's got a chance.


F-Mart was viewed as a SPECIAL hitter/talent. He was the highest paid IFA of his class (yes the Mets actually did that). He was getting Bobby Abreu (one of the most underrated players ever) comps. F-Mart at... 17 put up an .894 OPS over 45 games in the SAL. Went into his age 18 season the #22 prospect in baseball. Gimenez is nowhere near that level. F-Mart's knee destroyed his career.
F-Mart may have had hype, but after his 18 year old season he sucked  
Eric on Li : 2/7/2018 9:51 am : link
Even in the minors he never hit more than 8 homers in a season or more than 43 RBIs - and that's as a COF. He just never developed anything beyond that solid contact ability (which is obviously where we hope Gimenez does much better).
Sickels on FMart at 17  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:54 am : link
A Dominican signed in 2005 for $1.4 million, Martinez has been pushed VERY aggressively by the Mets. His tools are very strong, and the fact that he played full-season ball at age 17 is remarkable. He looked great in the Sally
League, but was overmatched by the more polished pitchers in the Florida State League, which is hardly unexpected. I saw Martinez in the Arizona Fall League. His athleticism is impressive, and he is more polished than most players his age; making an attempt to work the count, albeit not very successfully at times. He is a fine defensive outfielder, with a strong arm and good range, although he may lose much of his speed as he matures physically. "

Talent in spades. One of the more talented busts the Mets have ever had. In the last 2 decades he and Cole (RIP and not fair to call him a "bust") are probably at the head of that list. Paul Wilson too.
RE: F-Mart may have had hype, but after his 18 year old season he sucked  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:55 am : link
In comment 13824868 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Even in the minors he never hit more than 8 homers in a season or more than 43 RBIs - and that's as a COF. He just never developed anything beyond that solid contact ability (which is obviously where we hope Gimenez does much better).


But he has ++ physical gifts. Gimenez does not. Nobody who has seen him has said otherwise.Law didn't even place Gimenez in his top 100, nor did Fangraphs.
RE: F-Mart may have had hype, but after his 18 year old season he sucked  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 9:57 am : link
In comment 13824868 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Even in the minors he never hit more than 8 homers in a season or more than 43 RBIs - and that's as a COF. He just never developed anything beyond that solid contact ability (which is obviously where we hope Gimenez does much better).


he hit 10 HR's as a 17 year old (across 3 levels in 86 game) up as high as ST Lucie.

A 17 year old in advanced A producing an almost .800 OPS while averaging 5 years younger than league age is pretty impressive to me.

Jeff P's  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 9:57 am : link
in-person scouting file

"Gimenez is a very polished middle infielder for his age both at the plate and in the field. Needs to add strength for the offensive profile to play up, and may lack a carrying tool in the end. Being able to play everyday at shortstop would be a big boon for the profile. Check back on that in two years as the body matures." "Realistic role 50; Everyday middle infielder"

Nobody says he sucks but he's the Mets top prospect by default. An average system he's 4-7 range.
Best  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 10:00 am : link
players I ever saw in person that were busts


Fernando, Paul Wilson, Milledge, Humber (guy had a career but he was killed by his time at Rice, should have been much better)
Do you think Gimenez being  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 10:02 am : link
blocked by Rosario at SS impacts his value at all?

I don't think they'd move him (not yet at least) if he projects as a legit SS, but do you think it hurts Gimenez value?
RE: Do you think Gimenez being  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13824899 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
blocked by Rosario at SS impacts his value at all?

I don't think they'd move him (not yet at least) if he projects as a legit SS, but do you think it hurts Gimenez value?


Too far away to worry about it. Even if you dream big he's 2-3 years away at which point we should have clarity on Rosario (and it's not as if they have a long term option at 2b anyway). Gimenez could obviously end up trade bait (as soon as this season) but they continue to sign SS's, most teams try to (Mauricio sounds intriguing) etc etc.
The Mets don't need to spend on a LH reliever  
Jay on the Island : 2/7/2018 10:37 am : link
There will be a few available after spring training. The Braves signed Sam Freeman off the scrap heap last year and he put up a great season he had a 2.55 ERA and 3.34 FIP while averaging 8.9 K/9 in a career-high 60 innings of work.

Keep an eye on Atlanta for LH relievers. They have too many on the to keep on the MLB roster already with AJ Minter, Jacob Lindgren, Sam Freeman Rex Brothers, Grant Dayton plus prospects Jesse Biddle, Adam McCreery, and Thomas Burrows knocking on the door. Rex Brothers is similar to Smoker in terms of stuff. He could thrive under Callaway.
Did  
MookGiants : 2/7/2018 10:43 am : link
ae really just get a BOOM because the Mets signed Todd Frazier?

What the hell would ZGiants do kf the Mets signed someone who was a good player instead of average
The  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 11:07 am : link
Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.
RE: The  
Shecky : 2/7/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 13825021 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.


Why do you think that is? And why do you think he is listening to them?
RE: RE: The  
pjcas18 : 2/7/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 13825031 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13825021 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.



Why do you think that is? And why do you think he is listening to them?


Can you just tell us?
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 2/7/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13825031 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13825021 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mets bizarrely have told David Wright not to speak to reporters until next week.



Why do you think that is? And why do you think he is listening to them?


No clue. Wright would never speak out against the team so I have to assume you are implying Wright is hanging it up and they want an official announcement next week.
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