If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
But you can’t use a #2 on a RB if there is a consensus Franchise QB there
No question Barkley is a good back. You just cannot use a high pick on a rb in today's NFL. I also believe there will be two consensus franchise qbs in the 2018 draft (Darnold/Rosen). Wouldn't be prudent to waste the pick on a rb.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
You can lose with anyone, even taking a QB. Yes. QB is an important need to replace Eli in the future. Hell. I would take Darnold before Barkley (Just my opinion), but we don't know how these QBs are values by the Giants' staff right now. Remember Gettleman's QB hell speech? If the QB is not worth it at #2, you don't take him. If Barkley can put the Giants into a position to be SB contenders for the next few years, it's worth it. Just six months ago, the Giants were being talked about as SB contenders. Can always get a QB in a later round in this draft or in next years draft. There are no rules etched in stone that says a RB cannot be taken a #2. Elliot, Gurley an Fournette have proven to help their teams thus far. Why can't Barkely help the Giants?
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
Yeah I saw what you are referring to and that's nonsense. Do you know where that came from? That was a tweet from a sports radio host out of Denver by Benjamin Allbright. You know what sports radio guys do for a living? They have hot takes. And that's all that was, is his hot take. He might've talked to a couple of people, but I guarantee you that his tweet's sentiment isn't really shared by most in the NFL. This is not just fans. He is regarded as one of the best RB prospects ever by several people who have gone on record in the scouting community. He is the top overall prospect in the class according to Daniel Jeremiah, who is respected. I honestly don't know why anyone gave Allbright any consideration for that tweet, and I'm not aware of anyone credible agreeing with him. Unfortunately, a lot of people retweeted it, including Pat Traina.
As to your point about shelf life, yes, that is a factor. However, do you think the Cowboys regret drafting Emmitt Smith? By the way, Smith played for 14 seasons, about 11 really good ones. And yes, most don't play that long. But when you have a talent like Barkley, a chance at a transformational player, it's a good bet to take a chance on a guy like that.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
You can lose with anyone, even taking a QB. Yes. QB is an important need to replace Eli in the future. Hell. I would take Darnold before Barkley (Just my opinion), but we don't know how these QBs are values by the Giants' staff right now. Remember Gettleman's QB hell speech? If the QB is not worth it at #2, you don't take him. If Barkley can put the Giants into a position to be SB contenders for the next few years, it's worth it. Just six months ago, the Giants were being talked about as SB contenders. Can always get a QB in a later round in this draft or in next years draft. There are no rules etched in stone that says a RB cannot be taken a #2. Elliot, Gurley an Fournette have proven to help their teams thus far. Why can't Barkely help the Giants?
I agree with the risk for al players. I could also spin Gettlemans comment to mean you could also be in qb hell if you don't draft one when he's available, and you end up in a Buffalo Bills style cycle. I understand what you're saying regarding the team being viewed as a SB contender, but as we saw it was a tremendously flawed analysis, conducted by a regime who has tremendous difficulty recognizing talent.
If this team was a couple of pieces away, I would say by all means go for the rb. It's not a couple of pieces away, it needs an entire offensive line, two CBs, at least two legit linebackers, at least one pass rusher, a number 2 wide receiver, just to get started. This team wasn't 3-13 by accident, it was a poorly constructed and bad team. It's two years away from competing again, if you take the rb, then you've wasted two years of shelf life. Whereas if you take a 20 year old qb (Darnold/Rosen) they will just be getting ready for their NFL ascent. Ideally, Darnold or Rosen is taken at 2 and the best LT available in round 2. Similar to the 2004 draft. Then build away from there.
Love the Barkley video. Show's his ability to adapt to weather conditions that are important when playing at MetLife Stadium. The hanging onto the football demonstration was interesting exercise.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
Yeah I saw what you are referring to and that's nonsense. Do you know where that came from? That was a tweet from a sports radio host out of Denver by Benjamin Allbright. You know what sports radio guys do for a living? They have hot takes. And that's all that was, is his hot take. He might've talked to a couple of people, but I guarantee you that his tweet's sentiment isn't really shared by most in the NFL. This is not just fans. He is regarded as one of the best RB prospects ever by several people who have gone on record in the scouting community. He is the top overall prospect in the class according to Daniel Jeremiah, who is respected. I honestly don't know why anyone gave Allbright any consideration for that tweet, and I'm not aware of anyone credible agreeing with him. Unfortunately, a lot of people retweeted it, including Pat Traina.
As to your point about shelf life, yes, that is a factor. However, do you think the Cowboys regret drafting Emmitt Smith? By the way, Smith played for 14 seasons, about 11 really good ones. And yes, most don't play that long. But when you have a talent like Barkley, a chance at a transformational player, it's a good bet to take a chance on a guy like that.
I understand your point with Smith. But you also have to consider this guy was drafted after the hall of fame qb and wr were drafted. He also played behind one of the great offensive lines in that era. The Giants just don't have that infrastructure in place right now to draft a rb. Smith's career also tailed off tremendously after age 32, you aren't even thinking about replacing a franchise qb for another 5-7 years at that point.
Love the Barkley video. Show's his ability to adapt to weather conditions that are important when playing at MetLife Stadium. The hanging onto the football demonstration was interesting exercise.
One of the few knocks on Barkley (and there are very few) is that he may be looking to hit the homerun a little too often (especially in big games)and actually leaves yards on the field from time to time. I bet that can be coached out of him, but he'll have to learn that he can't look to take it to the house every single time in the NFL.
But I really wonder why there has not been more conversation about Bradly Chubb at #2. Big men help you win football games, and he is scheme diverse and was a consistent performer regardless of the level of competition in college.
Love the Barkley video. Show's his ability to adapt to weather conditions that are important when playing at MetLife Stadium. The hanging onto the football demonstration was interesting exercise.
One of the few knocks on Barkley (and there are very few) is that he may be looking to hit the homerun a little too often (especially in big games)and actually leaves yards on the field from time to time. I bet that can be coached out of him, but he'll have to learn that he can't look to take it to the house every single time in the NFL.
Its a funny thing that you said that, because the first player I thought of when you mentioned that was Barry Sander who at times had negative yards at a running attempt. I remembered Barry getting caught in the backfield several times.
If gives us 11 amazing seasons, it's worth it. Your opinion is a fine one, but Drew Brees was drafted the same year as LaDainian Tomlinson in 2001. Chargers picked Tomlinson in the first and then picked Drew Brees in the second round, who only got into 1 game that season, and started none. The Chargers had a 39 year old Doug Flutie who was their starter. Then Rivers was drafted two years later.
A veteran, established QB there, while a young, non-first round QB got extra seasoning, and Tomlinson had a HOF career and won an NFL MVP award. There was a young QB in house, and then they drafted the franchise QB a couple of years later. Hmmm. I think you see the parallels.
As far as offensive line, I think people should understand that the Giants will not have the same offensive line in 2018 that they had in 2017. Let Gettleman do his job, and he has said the OL is a point of emphasis. I think he's going to use at least one draft pick on OL, I think he's going to bring in a couple of guys in free agency. And don't forget, you had a rookie that showed promise in Wheeler, and Flowers actually finally showed improvement. In fact, he had a long stretch early to mid-year where I think he didn't even allow a hurry.
There is no reason to avoid Barkley unless you are convinced that a true franchise QB is there at 2 that can carry a team to a Super Bowl. To me, there's one guy that I'm convinced can do that...Darnold. But if Cleveland takes him, Barkley is a tremendous consolation.
If gives us 11 amazing seasons, it's worth it. Your opinion is a fine one, but Drew Brees was drafted the same year as LaDainian Tomlinson in 2001. Chargers picked Tomlinson in the first and then picked Drew Brees in the second round, who only got into 1 game that season, and started none. The Chargers had a 39 year old Doug Flutie who was their starter. Then Rivers was drafted two years later.
A veteran, established QB there, while a young, non-first round QB got extra seasoning, and Tomlinson had a HOF career and won an NFL MVP award. There was a young QB in house, and then they drafted the franchise QB a couple of years later. Hmmm. I think you see the parallels.
As far as offensive line, I think people should understand that the Giants will not have the same offensive line in 2018 that they had in 2017. Let Gettleman do his job, and he has said the OL is a point of emphasis. I think he's going to use at least one draft pick on OL, I think he's going to bring in a couple of guys in free agency. And don't forget, you had a rookie that showed promise in Wheeler, and Flowers actually finally showed improvement. In fact, he had a long stretch early to mid-year where I think he didn't even allow a hurry.
There is no reason to avoid Barkley unless you are convinced that a true franchise QB is there at 2 that can carry a team to a Super Bowl. To me, there's one guy that I'm convinced can do that...Darnold. But if Cleveland takes him, Barkley is a tremendous consolation.
All fair points, there's no denying barkleys talent. I'll also add that I think Rosen is a true franchise qb (in addition to Darnold). I do think it will take more than one year to rebuild this line. Probably at least one additional season perhaps 2 (three years overall).
I also understand your point with the chargers. That just seems more like the exception and they were also able to achieve that by having the number one pick after already having brees and Tomlinson on the roster. I think heads would roll if the Giants were even remotely close to the number 1 pick in a year or two. If not, and Webb isn't the guy, the team likely has to trade away multiple first rounders to get to where they are now draft position wise.
is good enough, take Darnold - but, I hope they are comfortable with Webb and take Chubb.
Chubb doesn't seem to be all that good of a fit for 3-4
There are many who dispute that. Same say he can play 4-tech in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3. Also, I don't think the Giants are going to switch exclusively to a 3-4. The scheme will be variable. Chubb is 6'4" 275. He's pretty scheme diverse based on that alone.
But I really wonder why there has not been more conversation about Bradly Chubb at #2. Big men help you win football games, and he is scheme diverse and was a consistent performer regardless of the level of competition in college.
To this point, draftniks have focused on the perceived abundance of QB prospects and Barkley.
Have us taking Rosen for what its worth .
I love Barkley won't complain about a QB I would cry about
a trade down but not too far I wouldn't mind Chub either . Link - ( New Window )
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
Thanks! That was really cool also. Saquon seems like a great kid. I am torn between the two of them
How Do Construction Workers Push Their Bodies To Finish Olympic Stadiums On Time? - ( New Window )
No question Barkley is a good back. You just cannot use a high pick on a rb in today's NFL. I also believe there will be two consensus franchise qbs in the 2018 draft (Darnold/Rosen). Wouldn't be prudent to waste the pick on a rb.
Quote:
thanks for posting.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
You can lose with anyone, even taking a QB. Yes. QB is an important need to replace Eli in the future. Hell. I would take Darnold before Barkley (Just my opinion), but we don't know how these QBs are values by the Giants' staff right now. Remember Gettleman's QB hell speech? If the QB is not worth it at #2, you don't take him. If Barkley can put the Giants into a position to be SB contenders for the next few years, it's worth it. Just six months ago, the Giants were being talked about as SB contenders. Can always get a QB in a later round in this draft or in next years draft. There are no rules etched in stone that says a RB cannot be taken a #2. Elliot, Gurley an Fournette have proven to help their teams thus far. Why can't Barkely help the Giants?
This appears to be one of the chief complaints about Darnold's game.
Quote:
thanks for posting.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
Yeah I saw what you are referring to and that's nonsense. Do you know where that came from? That was a tweet from a sports radio host out of Denver by Benjamin Allbright. You know what sports radio guys do for a living? They have hot takes. And that's all that was, is his hot take. He might've talked to a couple of people, but I guarantee you that his tweet's sentiment isn't really shared by most in the NFL. This is not just fans. He is regarded as one of the best RB prospects ever by several people who have gone on record in the scouting community. He is the top overall prospect in the class according to Daniel Jeremiah, who is respected. I honestly don't know why anyone gave Allbright any consideration for that tweet, and I'm not aware of anyone credible agreeing with him. Unfortunately, a lot of people retweeted it, including Pat Traina.
As to your point about shelf life, yes, that is a factor. However, do you think the Cowboys regret drafting Emmitt Smith? By the way, Smith played for 14 seasons, about 11 really good ones. And yes, most don't play that long. But when you have a talent like Barkley, a chance at a transformational player, it's a good bet to take a chance on a guy like that.
Quote:
In comment 13823873 allstarjim said:
Quote:
thanks for posting.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
You can lose with anyone, even taking a QB. Yes. QB is an important need to replace Eli in the future. Hell. I would take Darnold before Barkley (Just my opinion), but we don't know how these QBs are values by the Giants' staff right now. Remember Gettleman's QB hell speech? If the QB is not worth it at #2, you don't take him. If Barkley can put the Giants into a position to be SB contenders for the next few years, it's worth it. Just six months ago, the Giants were being talked about as SB contenders. Can always get a QB in a later round in this draft or in next years draft. There are no rules etched in stone that says a RB cannot be taken a #2. Elliot, Gurley an Fournette have proven to help their teams thus far. Why can't Barkely help the Giants?
I agree with the risk for al players. I could also spin Gettlemans comment to mean you could also be in qb hell if you don't draft one when he's available, and you end up in a Buffalo Bills style cycle. I understand what you're saying regarding the team being viewed as a SB contender, but as we saw it was a tremendously flawed analysis, conducted by a regime who has tremendous difficulty recognizing talent.
If this team was a couple of pieces away, I would say by all means go for the rb. It's not a couple of pieces away, it needs an entire offensive line, two CBs, at least two legit linebackers, at least one pass rusher, a number 2 wide receiver, just to get started. This team wasn't 3-13 by accident, it was a poorly constructed and bad team. It's two years away from competing again, if you take the rb, then you've wasted two years of shelf life. Whereas if you take a 20 year old qb (Darnold/Rosen) they will just be getting ready for their NFL ascent. Ideally, Darnold or Rosen is taken at 2 and the best LT available in round 2. Similar to the 2004 draft. Then build away from there.
Quote:
In comment 13823873 allstarjim said:
Quote:
thanks for posting.
If the conversation is Darnold or Barkley, we cannot lose.
You actually can lose very badly with Barkley. The average shelf life of an NFL rb says this guy will play at a high-level for 4 or 5 seasons, then fall off substantially. With the talent available at rb this year, he's not worth the number 2 pick. I think some are going to be surprised with how Barkley falls. Someone posted a link on this site last week or the week before, but apparently NFL executives are not as enamored with him as some fans. And how can you blame them with the average NFL rb life span and current state of league play.
Yeah I saw what you are referring to and that's nonsense. Do you know where that came from? That was a tweet from a sports radio host out of Denver by Benjamin Allbright. You know what sports radio guys do for a living? They have hot takes. And that's all that was, is his hot take. He might've talked to a couple of people, but I guarantee you that his tweet's sentiment isn't really shared by most in the NFL. This is not just fans. He is regarded as one of the best RB prospects ever by several people who have gone on record in the scouting community. He is the top overall prospect in the class according to Daniel Jeremiah, who is respected. I honestly don't know why anyone gave Allbright any consideration for that tweet, and I'm not aware of anyone credible agreeing with him. Unfortunately, a lot of people retweeted it, including Pat Traina.
As to your point about shelf life, yes, that is a factor. However, do you think the Cowboys regret drafting Emmitt Smith? By the way, Smith played for 14 seasons, about 11 really good ones. And yes, most don't play that long. But when you have a talent like Barkley, a chance at a transformational player, it's a good bet to take a chance on a guy like that.
I understand your point with Smith. But you also have to consider this guy was drafted after the hall of fame qb and wr were drafted. He also played behind one of the great offensive lines in that era. The Giants just don't have that infrastructure in place right now to draft a rb. Smith's career also tailed off tremendously after age 32, you aren't even thinking about replacing a franchise qb for another 5-7 years at that point.
One of the few knocks on Barkley (and there are very few) is that he may be looking to hit the homerun a little too often (especially in big games)and actually leaves yards on the field from time to time. I bet that can be coached out of him, but he'll have to learn that he can't look to take it to the house every single time in the NFL.
Quote:
Love the Barkley video. Show's his ability to adapt to weather conditions that are important when playing at MetLife Stadium. The hanging onto the football demonstration was interesting exercise.
One of the few knocks on Barkley (and there are very few) is that he may be looking to hit the homerun a little too often (especially in big games)and actually leaves yards on the field from time to time. I bet that can be coached out of him, but he'll have to learn that he can't look to take it to the house every single time in the NFL.
Its a funny thing that you said that, because the first player I thought of when you mentioned that was Barry Sander who at times had negative yards at a running attempt. I remembered Barry getting caught in the backfield several times.
A veteran, established QB there, while a young, non-first round QB got extra seasoning, and Tomlinson had a HOF career and won an NFL MVP award. There was a young QB in house, and then they drafted the franchise QB a couple of years later. Hmmm. I think you see the parallels.
As far as offensive line, I think people should understand that the Giants will not have the same offensive line in 2018 that they had in 2017. Let Gettleman do his job, and he has said the OL is a point of emphasis. I think he's going to use at least one draft pick on OL, I think he's going to bring in a couple of guys in free agency. And don't forget, you had a rookie that showed promise in Wheeler, and Flowers actually finally showed improvement. In fact, he had a long stretch early to mid-year where I think he didn't even allow a hurry.
There is no reason to avoid Barkley unless you are convinced that a true franchise QB is there at 2 that can carry a team to a Super Bowl. To me, there's one guy that I'm convinced can do that...Darnold. But if Cleveland takes him, Barkley is a tremendous consolation.
A veteran, established QB there, while a young, non-first round QB got extra seasoning, and Tomlinson had a HOF career and won an NFL MVP award. There was a young QB in house, and then they drafted the franchise QB a couple of years later. Hmmm. I think you see the parallels.
As far as offensive line, I think people should understand that the Giants will not have the same offensive line in 2018 that they had in 2017. Let Gettleman do his job, and he has said the OL is a point of emphasis. I think he's going to use at least one draft pick on OL, I think he's going to bring in a couple of guys in free agency. And don't forget, you had a rookie that showed promise in Wheeler, and Flowers actually finally showed improvement. In fact, he had a long stretch early to mid-year where I think he didn't even allow a hurry.
There is no reason to avoid Barkley unless you are convinced that a true franchise QB is there at 2 that can carry a team to a Super Bowl. To me, there's one guy that I'm convinced can do that...Darnold. But if Cleveland takes him, Barkley is a tremendous consolation.
All fair points, there's no denying barkleys talent. I'll also add that I think Rosen is a true franchise qb (in addition to Darnold). I do think it will take more than one year to rebuild this line. Probably at least one additional season perhaps 2 (three years overall).
I also understand your point with the chargers. That just seems more like the exception and they were also able to achieve that by having the number one pick after already having brees and Tomlinson on the roster. I think heads would roll if the Giants were even remotely close to the number 1 pick in a year or two. If not, and Webb isn't the guy, the team likely has to trade away multiple first rounders to get to where they are now draft position wise.
Chubb doesn't seem to be all that good of a fit for 3-4
Remember, Barkley actually doesn't have a ton of carries on his legs.
Quote:
is good enough, take Darnold - but, I hope they are comfortable with Webb and take Chubb.
Chubb doesn't seem to be all that good of a fit for 3-4
There are many who dispute that. Same say he can play 4-tech in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3. Also, I don't think the Giants are going to switch exclusively to a 3-4. The scheme will be variable. Chubb is 6'4" 275. He's pretty scheme diverse based on that alone.
To this point, draftniks have focused on the perceived abundance of QB prospects and Barkley.
I love Barkley won't complain about a QB I would cry about
a trade down but not too far I wouldn't mind Chub either .
Link - ( New Window )
It s fun, and interesting. But in my opinion it s not a question of whom or which position they will draft.
It s a question of do they believe the franchise quarterback is there at #2.
If yes, they will take a quarterback, I can t see how there is any debating that.
If "no" then all the other scenerios that have been discussed here are in play. But that s the only way they are in play