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NFT: Rangers getting their ass kicked

bluesince56 : 2/7/2018 9:29 pm
at home tonight. This is really a bad team
at this point  
Dankbeerman : 2/7/2018 9:49 pm : link
its both expected and needed.
Good.  
MetsAreBack : 2/7/2018 9:51 pm : link
i only have two games left, and my 6 year old loves going so i'm fine taking him to one. We'll still have fun. Selling the Caps game won't be easy, but maybe there are some Caps fans in the area that would enjoy an easy win.

And its cute that AV pulled Lundqvist again - 7th time this year. AV is the best.
People still follow these losers?  
Route 9 : 2/7/2018 9:54 pm : link
Something for everyone I guess
mets are back  
DaddyM89 : 2/7/2018 9:57 pm : link
how much you selling caps game for?
Route9  
jtgiants : 2/7/2018 10:00 pm : link
Your A jackass. The rangers are the only team in the league to make the second round of the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years. Have also been to 3 eastern conference finals and a cup final in that time. Totally agree not winning a cup isn't good enough but to call them losers shows exactly how little you know
Hey uh dickhead, I was joking  
Route 9 : 2/7/2018 10:07 pm : link
Or well...when you do win one cup out of 900 years of existence you kind of do get the reputation for being a loser.

Maybe YOU'RE the jackass!
6-1  
Route 9 : 2/7/2018 10:07 pm : link
LOL
Lol  
jtgiants : 2/7/2018 10:09 pm : link
Is your utter lack of knowledge. I mean its ok to be uneducated on the subject. Glad to help.
Route9  
jtgiants : 2/7/2018 10:11 pm : link
I agree they didn't get over the hump but nothing in your post comes across as joking. If you were I apologize but this team had a real good 7 year run and I think will be good again next year
RE: People still follow these losers?  
Rob in Rockaway : 2/7/2018 10:13 pm : link
In comment 13826017 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Something for everyone I guess


Rangers are a bad team this year and you are a complete dick. Thanks for sorting that out.
route 9 is a Devils fan having some fun with you  
MetsAreBack : 2/7/2018 10:15 pm : link
lighten up. Neither NYR nor NJ is winning the cup this year so whatever.

I'm fine with AV seeing the season through - they would just put Ruff in charge who also sucks and there's no coach out there that's going to get much out of this group anyway. Just make the clean break day after season ends.
RE: mets are back  
MetsAreBack : 2/7/2018 10:17 pm : link
In comment 13826021 DaddyM89 said:
Quote:
how much you selling caps game for?


Face value i think. $166 per seat (thanks Dolan). Section 105, row 18, seats 4-5 (between goalline and offensive face-off circle). Its Monday 3/26.

My email is in profile.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/7/2018 10:18 pm : link
Lose, lose, lose and sell, sell, sell.

It's time to blow this thing up.
RE: .  
NYerInMA : 2/7/2018 10:21 pm : link
In comment 13826040 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Lose, lose, lose and sell, sell, sell.

It's time to blow this thing up.


And fire all the coaches except Allaire too.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/7/2018 10:24 pm : link
Even our shitty new goon sucks.

This team is completely unwatchable.
They're getting their shit pushed in  
Davisian : 2/7/2018 10:25 pm : link
And deserve the shade.

These hockey threads are fuckin softer than the Rangers.

We need a hashtag. #fallin4dahlin
RE: .  
MetsAreBack : 2/7/2018 10:26 pm : link
In comment 13826040 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Lose, lose, lose and sell, sell, sell.

It's time to blow this thing up.



I agree with you but let me just reiterate:

Mets. Over by June. Lost 92 games after 2015 WS and 2016 playoffs.

Giants. 3-13, over by early October, coming off playoff season.

Knicks. Another missed playoff season, its been over for a good month, and just lost franchise player for at least 12 months, impacting next year.

Rangers. Season over the day we lost Kreider.

"Sell Sell Sell... Lose Lose Lose" mantra for all 4 fucking teams this year. What. The. Fuck. If I ever have to go through this shit again i'm giving up sports.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/7/2018 10:27 pm : link
In comment 13826049 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 13826040 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Lose, lose, lose and sell, sell, sell.

It's time to blow this thing up.




I agree with you but let me just reiterate:

Mets. Over by June. Lost 92 games after 2015 WS and 2016 playoffs.

Giants. 3-13, over by early October, coming off playoff season.

Knicks. Another missed playoff season, its been over for a good month, and just lost franchise player for at least 12 months, impacting next year.

Rangers. Season over the day we lost Kreider.

"Sell Sell Sell... Lose Lose Lose" mantra for all 4 fucking teams this year. What. The. Fuck. If I ever have to go through this shit again i'm giving up sports.


Yep. It's been real shitty for us, bud.

Fucking sucks.
At least I have the Yankees  
NYerInMA : 2/7/2018 10:29 pm : link
but I am expecting them to under perform compared to last year. Just the way these things seem to go these days.
MAB  
TommytheElephant : 2/7/2018 10:38 pm : link
Just to jog your memory...the Eagles won the Super Bowl as well
Nice everyone forgets that I'm a Ranger fan  
Route 9 : 2/7/2018 10:44 pm : link
My reputation here has been saved!
Rooting for the Mets  
Davisian : 2/7/2018 11:32 pm : link
Is pretty much fuck sports central.

I'd figure you'd be used to suck.


Like I said the other day,  
RodneyHamp : 2/8/2018 8:22 am : link
Giants, Rangers, Mets, Knicks....


sports suck right now.
RE: MAB  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 9:02 am : link
In comment 13826056 TommytheElephant said:
Quote:
Just to jog your memory...the Eagles won the Super Bowl as well


Oh, i am certain based on how this year has gone that the Caps will get their first for their city and Ovi this year (not that I hate Ovi.. it just makes me sick that NYR couldnt give Hank more than 5 Finals games in his career here while the other generational talents around the league get their moment)

I've thought about it and i just dont see how adding Chytil and Andersson (and maybe the top 10 pick can slot into a 3rd line or 2nd pair role too, optimistic - but ok) --- is going to magically make this team a contender next season. I know things have snow-balled this year, but the metrics kind of show this team needs a massive overhaul, not a tweak. At the very least we need a legitimate, franchise player to build around.
How do you know Chytil isn't that franchise player?  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 9:07 am : link
He's put up 8-14-22 in 27 games in Hartford with a lousy supporting cast as an 18 year old who doesn't turn 19 until September. That's pretty damned impressive.
RE: RE: RE: .  
bLiTz 2k : 2/8/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 13826050 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13826049 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


In comment 13826040 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Lose, lose, lose and sell, sell, sell.

It's time to blow this thing up.




I agree with you but let me just reiterate:

Mets. Over by June. Lost 92 games after 2015 WS and 2016 playoffs.

Giants. 3-13, over by early October, coming off playoff season.

Knicks. Another missed playoff season, its been over for a good month, and just lost franchise player for at least 12 months, impacting next year.

Rangers. Season over the day we lost Kreider.

"Sell Sell Sell... Lose Lose Lose" mantra for all 4 fucking teams this year. What. The. Fuck. If I ever have to go through this shit again i'm giving up sports.



Yep. It's been real shitty for us, bud.

Fucking sucks.


Same rooting interests as you guys...this feels like the fucking twilight zone.
Andersson  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 9:19 am : link
looked better than Chytil at the World Juniors last month. More explosive/skilled offensively.

I think both are future NHL centers.

and I loved when Andersson threw his silver medal in the stands after losing the championship game (though he took some criticism for it).

Chytil's teammate on the Czech team Filip Zadina is who I'd target in this upcoming draft if you lose out on Dahlin.

outside of Laine I can't remember a better consolation prize in the draft and he might not go #2 overall, some people like Tkachuk, some like Svechnikov (who I like a lot too), some like Hughes, Boqvist, etc.

For me it's Dahlin, Zadina, Svechnikov, Tkachuk, Bouchard as top 5 (I don't like Hughes and Boqvist size for D though the trend is to smaller, more mobile D).

If the Rangers combine say Zadina to Andersson and Chytil and Shestyorkin that's a good young core, that wouldn't require much seasoning to be NHL ready.

Seems like a Hail Mary  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 9:20 am : link
i also dont think we'll be able to re-sign all these vets/RFAs while still staying under the cap (I'm not even sure Gorton wants to), so the two/maybe three young additions most likely wouldn't be 100% additive.

Most important thing is getting rid of AV.

After that, I still dont know about Gorton. He's had some good moments - Ziba trade, making Shattenkirk come to him not chasing -- but some mind-boggling ones too in recent years that make me think he's behind the curve when it comes to player evaluation.
RE: Good.  
Rover : 2/8/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13826010 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
i only have two games left, and my 6 year old loves going so i'm fine taking him to one. We'll still have fun. Selling the Caps game won't be easy, but maybe there are some Caps fans in the area that would enjoy an easy win.

And its cute that AV pulled Lundqvist again - 7th time this year. AV is the best.

How much you selling it for?
Gorton made his reputation  
Kyle in NY : 2/8/2018 10:19 am : link
running the draft for the Bruins in 2006 which set them up for much of the success. He's known as a good draft guy and early returns on this past draft are positive. I think he deserves the chance to execute this rebuild and run this upcoming draft. He took over a tricky situation from Sather, with a team that had already taken their best shots and had very little assets leftover as a result.

He's made more positive moves than negative, I think he just needs to separate himself from AV. That guy is driving this organization into the ground right now and has seemingly destroyed the culture and energy around the team
Smith is so bad right now.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/8/2018 10:30 am : link
.
Yes, we've discovered why Detroit fans were glad to be rid of him  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 10:56 am : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2018 11:03 am : link
So, what the fuck happened with Brendan Smith?

Did we just completely overrate his postseason play? I thought he was one of our best defensemen in the playoffs last year and it seemed like a no-brainer to retain him at the price.

But good lord, he has been horrendous and now it's very clear why DET had no problem dealing him.

Guy sucks. Terrible.
Smith has talent  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 11:21 am : link
We saw that last year. Hasn't made much use of it for most of his career, though. He turned it on enough to sucker the Rangers into that contract and then returned to suck mode.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/8/2018 11:39 am : link
I think everyone was a little concerned that he played the best hockey of his career with the Rangers, but I never thought he'd be this bad.

And of course, some blame falls to the coaches. Prior to the Shattenkirk injury, they had sufficient talent to be at least an average defense.

It's incredible to me that they give up so many odd man rushes given the puck is in their zone most of the game.
Is there  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 11:54 am : link
a Rangers defenseman who hasn't regressed this year?

I wasn't a fan of Smith coming in to the season, but even Skjei and McDonagh look worse and I expected big things from Skjei this year and he's been solidly mediocre.

I think Smith is what he is, but I'd look for other reasons why Skjei and McDonagh haven't done better. Not removing personal accountability, but something changed.

There are only 3 teams in the league who have allowed more SA than the NYR and two of them have less games played and if the Rangers catch them in games they'll likely pass them in SA making them 2nd worst.

That's not all on defense, it starts with forecheck, allowing zone exits, neutral zone play, and all that before the puck is even in your zone and then it's breakout, and zone exits that possibly fail too. Anyway, shots against isn't all on the D, but it sure seems like something has changed with their system.

Last year the Rangers were middle of the pack in SA.

....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/8/2018 11:59 am : link
Outside of Nash and Fast, the forwards are not really good defensively. Stepan was very good defensively. Zibanejad isn't great.

I agree, Skjei's a big disappointment.
Rangers have called up Pionk  
Phil in LA : 2/8/2018 11:59 am : link
and the beats say Gorton and Sather have a meeting later. So the sell off might be starting soon.
Watching Dallas and NYR go in opposite directions defensively  
Kyle in NY : 2/8/2018 12:04 pm : link
really calls into question the Lindy Ruff hiring. It all goes through AV, but Ruff appears to be completely useless.
Smith put on waivers  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 12:05 pm : link
more procedural I believe than anything else, but teams can claim him and I believe assume his contract with no compensation.

Smith on waivers  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 12:07 pm : link
may be related to Pionk call up. Could be if Smith clears waivers they send him to Hartford.

waivers and minors are not my strong suit so I really am just guessing here - I see all the players who get waived because I follow some NHL writers on twitter who report on it, and saw Smith's name come up today.
it's time, I agree, blow most of it up  
ColHowPepper : 2/8/2018 12:19 pm : link
starting with Veenoh...(last week's veal chop rendered ground round)

I lost heart in SCP last year and thus have watched only intermittently this: yes, the Rangers were playing good teams, but not Finals teams, and the heart of their attack disappeared for games at a time. Part of it was timing: Buch was not yet seasoned enough, Mika was at times incandescent but with little help, but Miller and Kreider were often invisible for brutally long stretches, they couldn't skate with other forwards, couldn't attack the BL, and were mostly neutral on d. I've said more than I care to on Henrik.

Some games our "attack" consisted of 27 making the perfect outlet straight through center ice to the perfectly timed breaks of Nash, who couldn't finish often enough. Most games our d, as it was then constituted (thanks for letting #4 walk), was enough to hang in.

The injuries have sealed the crypt and management has to be decisive to move forward from this disaster.

Nice to hear pj is high on the two top picks.
If I'm Garth Snow  
Metnut : 2/8/2018 1:32 pm : link
I take a long serious look at claiming Smith. Isles still have a very talented top 6 on offense but are giving up 45 or so shots a game. Smith still has above average shot suppression metrics on a bad Rangers team and was third in CA/60 for Rangers dmen. Would seem to be a gamble worth thinking about (unless the tape is just so bad). He also plays LH and Isles are lacking that at the moment, and after this year as well.
Yes, the tape is that bad  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 1:34 pm : link
You have to watch Smith over a series of games to get a full understanding of just how bad he has been.
RE: If I'm Garth Snow  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13826560 Metnut said:
Quote:
I take a long serious look at claiming Smith. Isles still have a very talented top 6 on offense but are giving up 45 or so shots a game. Smith still has above average shot suppression metrics on a bad Rangers team and was third in CA/60 for Rangers dmen. Would seem to be a gamble worth thinking about (unless the tape is just so bad). He also plays LH and Isles are lacking that at the moment, and after this year as well.


I mentioned the Rangers were 4th worst in SA per game, the NYI are far and away last (they give up the most shots per game in the NHL).

Rangers could somewhat get away with it when Hank was playing lights out, but as soon as that stopped the losses piled up). I don't think the Islanders are strong enough in net to survive that kind of nightly onslaught.

Not sure Smith is the answer, but I guess can't make it worse.
RE: Smith on waivers  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13826414 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
may be related to Pionk call up. Could be if Smith clears waivers they send him to Hartford.

waivers and minors are not my strong suit so I really am just guessing here - I see all the players who get waived because I follow some NHL writers on twitter who report on it, and saw Smith's name come up today.


So Smith will be like Glass in that as long as he's in Hartford, he only counts 50% against our cap? Still, presuming he cant wake the fuck up by next year, that will be almost $6 million in dead cap space next season and that's assuming these geniuses dont also try to buy-out Staal this offseason too which would put the dead money closer to $10 million for 2018-2019... or basically the AAV of a franchise player.

I don't think you get 50%  
Metnut : 2/8/2018 1:44 pm : link
cap relief for AHL players. I think you can just deduct the min salary from the cap hit. So you'd get a little less than $1M in annual relief if he clears waivers and goes to AHL.

This is just my understanding and couldn't figure it out with a quick google, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It's unfortunately not a 50% cap savings  
jv : 2/8/2018 1:45 pm : link
Quote:
Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
Rangers would save pro-rated $1.025m on cap if, as expected, Smith clears and is assigned to AHL.


His cap hit for the Rangers would become about $3.3 Million
Some letter was sent out  
bxgiants4 : 2/8/2018 1:48 pm : link
Basically letting us know that the rangers are sellers
maybe he'd do us a solid like Naslund and just retire  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 1:48 pm : link
.
He's around 30 years old and just got his first big contract  
Kyle in NY : 2/8/2018 1:51 pm : link
he's not giving that up.

Hope someone claims him and if not, give him another shot with a new coaching staff. He wasn't flashy but was at least decent in Detroit and after coming over last season. Don't know why he's been so bad this season. Word was he came back out of shape
RE: If I'm Garth Snow  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13826560 Metnut said:
Quote:
I take a long serious look at claiming Smith. Isles still have a very talented top 6 on offense but are giving up 45 or so shots a game. Smith still has above average shot suppression metrics on a bad Rangers team and was third in CA/60 for Rangers dmen. Would seem to be a gamble worth thinking about (unless the tape is just so bad). He also plays LH and Isles are lacking that at the moment, and after this year as well.


I'll pack his bags personally. I don't hate Smith, but he's a 3rd pair player and teams that want to contend can't pay third pairing D-men $4.25mm a year.

I also thought the Islanders were right on top of the cap -- can you afford him? I guess if you sent us back Seidenberg or someone else you dont want to clear up the space it could work.

With JT owed likely double his current AV this summer, I would think the Isles would rather avoid locking up money in guys like this next 3 years right now. If he only had a year or two of term left i could see it, but not 3+ years.

Note that McDavid just got a $12MM AAV... JT, currently at 5.5mm, should get at least 11mm especially with team caps expected up 10% next year. Of course, franchise players in this league continue to sign for well below their worth... consider complimentary players like Stepan, Stastny, Backes, Parise - all get 6-7mm a year... makes no fucking sense... so I'm prepared to shoot myself when JT signs a ridiculous Stamkos/Crosby *charity* deal to stay home this summer.
RE: It's unfortunately not a 50% cap savings  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13826589 jv said:
Quote:


Quote:


Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
Rangers would save pro-rated $1.025m on cap if, as expected, Smith clears and is assigned to AHL.



His cap hit for the Rangers would become about $3.3 Million



Brutal. I know nobody bats 1000%, but our GMs simply make too many mistakes.
They aren't in the best spot  
Metnut : 2/8/2018 1:59 pm : link
cap wise (JT, Bailey and CdH all need to be signed) so it wouldn't be easy. That being said, a ton of money is coming off the books after this year too. The Isles might let CdH walk, so you'd have to hope that Smith was just in a bad situation. Not saying the Isles are a better situation, but sometimes a change of scenery can make a big difference.

Either way, even if they pass on Smith, they need to do something about the D situation.
RE: They aren't in the best spot  
KWhite2250 : 2/8/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13826619 Metnut said:
Quote:
cap wise (JT, Bailey and CdH all need to be signed) so it wouldn't be easy. That being said, a ton of money is coming off the books after this year too. The Isles might let CdH walk, so you'd have to hope that Smith was just in a bad situation. Not saying the Isles are a better situation, but sometimes a change of scenery can make a big difference.

Either way, even if they pass on Smith, they need to do something about the D situation.


They passed on Paul Martin and Cody Franson, who arent anything special but are better than the shit we put out, pretty sure they will pass on Smith as well. Garth Snow only works in the offseason
RE: Rangers have called up Pionk  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13826402 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
and the beats say Gorton and Sather have a meeting later. So the sell off might be starting soon.


Why is Sather still involved? Just go away.

The Rangers are already asking us season ticket holders for prepayment for next season - two months earlier than usual. They havent even decided yet what the ticket prices will go to. Forgive me if I wait this one out before signing the dotted line... next year could be really ugly as far as ticket sales for Dolan.
RE: Some letter was sent out  
gmen9892 : 2/8/2018 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13826595 bxgiants4 said:
Quote:
Basically letting us know that the rangers are sellers


As a Ranger fan, this is so refreshing. They were up front and honest about what they were going to do. This team needs to be retooled. Music to Ranger fans ears and it was very well-worded IMO.
I just hope Gorton does this fire sale thing better than Sather did  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 2:17 pm : link
The last time the Rangers were sellers was 2004. They dealt a ton of veterans away and got virtually nothing of value in return:

Leetch to Toronto for Maxim Kondratiev, Jarkko Immonen, and a second round pick which ended up being Mike Sauer (sniff)

Kovalev to Montreal for Josef Balej and a second (who never made the NHL)

Nedved and Jussi Markkanen to Edmonton for Dwight Helminen, Steve Valiquette, and a second (Dane Byers, played about 10 NHL games)

Martin Rucinsky to Vancouver for RJ Umberger and Martin Grenier, neither of whom ever played for them.

Malakhov to Philly for someone named Rick Kozak and second. The second was later dealt to the late Atlanta Thrashers who used it to pick.....Ondrej Pavelec!

Greg DeVries to Ottawa for Karel Rachunek and Alexander Giroux

Chris Simon to Calgary for Jamie McLennan, Greg Moore, and Blair Betts

Matt Barnaby for Dave Liffiton and Chris McAllister.

A whole lot of deals that accomplished absolutely nothing.
RE: RE: Some letter was sent out  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13826679 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13826595 bxgiants4 said:


Quote:


Basically letting us know that the rangers are sellers




When did it go out? A letter or an email? I havent gotten anything in my email inbox.

Talk is cheap - Dolan raised my ticket prices from $95 in 2010 to $166 this year. If we're rebuilding, fine, but i expect my ticket prices down 10% next year then.
it's on twitter  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 2:21 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
It probably wont keep Dolan from making a move  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 2:36 pm : link
but Vigneault does still have 2 years, $8.5 million left on his deal.

Would love to understand, coming off an embarrassing season and ass-kicking to Pittsburgh in the prior year stanley cup playoffs.. why they felt the need to extend him last january when he still had 1.5 years left on his deal.

Again, i remain stumped by too many decisions made by this team - whatever the Gorton/Sather team is and who does what.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 2/8/2018 2:58 pm : link
Have to think McDonagh and/or Zucc are going if they have a press conference like this.
RE: I just hope Gorton does this fire sale thing better than Sather did  
old man : 2/8/2018 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13826714 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The last time the Rangers were sellers was 2004. They dealt a ton of veterans away and got virtually nothing of value in return:

Leetch to Toronto for Maxim Kondratiev, Jarkko Immonen, and a second round pick which ended up being Mike Sauer (sniff)

Kovalev to Montreal for Josef Balej and a second (who never made the NHL)

Nedved and Jussi Markkanen to Edmonton for Dwight Helminen, Steve Valiquette, and a second (Dane Byers, played about 10 NHL games)

Martin Rucinsky to Vancouver for RJ Umberger and Martin Grenier, neither of whom ever played for them.

Malakhov to Philly for someone named Rick Kozak and second. The second was later dealt to the late Atlanta Thrashers who used it to pick.....Ondrej Pavelec!

Greg DeVries to Ottawa for Karel Rachunek and Alexander Giroux

Chris Simon to Calgary for Jamie McLennan, Greg Moore, and Blair Betts

Matt Barnaby for Dave Liffiton and Chris McAllister.

A whole lot of deals that accomplished absolutely nothing.


A whole roster full of failure right there. That's an amazing amount of garbage now that its been displayed.
AV has to go.
Now its a press conference?  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 3:02 pm : link
thought it was just a letter.

Nash might be the player they meant with 'care about and respect' I dont think Grabner has been around long enough to necessarily qualify.

But 'this tradeline AND INTO THE SUMMER' means this isnt as simple folks as trading Nash and Grabner and bringing them back in July and going for it next year... this is going to be a legit rebuild.

That's how i'm reading it anyway, and i'm fine with that actually... but embrace it and dont cut corners. Trade Zucc, McD, go back to Hank again, probably Hayes... and dont buy out players that will cost you 4-6 years from now.
They had a press conference this afternoon.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/8/2018 3:06 pm : link
.
RE: They had a press conference this afternoon.  
MetsAreBack : 2/8/2018 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13826875 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Ok then, well now they're just being drama queens. Get it done and move on.
RE: Now its a press conference?  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13826863 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
thought it was just a letter.

Nash might be the player they meant with 'care about and respect' I dont think Grabner has been around long enough to necessarily qualify.


Zuccarello is who came to mind for me. Pretty long tenured Ranger at this point, fan favorite.
RE: RE: Now its a press conference?  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13827028 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13826863 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


thought it was just a letter.

Nash might be the player they meant with 'care about and respect' I dont think Grabner has been around long enough to necessarily qualify.



Zuccarello is who came to mind for me. Pretty long tenured Ranger at this point, fan favorite.


I assumed Zuccarello, Lundqvist, and/or McDonagh since most people assume Nash, Grabner, Holden, etc. anyone who is a FA after the season is a solid candidate for a sell off.
So anyone watch the press conference?  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 4:23 pm : link
BSB comments think it indicated that AV is a goner after the season.
they can't trade Lundqvist, though  
Greg from LI : 2/8/2018 4:24 pm : link
Not if you believe Henrik's repeated comments that he will be a Ranger till the day he retires no matter how bad the team might be in the future. Maybe he could be convinced otherwise, but he's been pretty consistent so far that he'll never approve a trade.
Probably true  
pjcas18 : 2/8/2018 4:28 pm : link
I did read him say he was ok with a rebuild, I just think if the FO looks at him getting yanked for the 4 time in 2018 (or whatever it's been) as an indictment of him not just AV or the rest of the team they could ask him to waive his NMC.

I can't put myself in player's shoes to say what they'd do, bu I personally cannot imagine saying no to a team that asked me to do that. If they don't want me somewhere I can't imaging forcing them to keep me, contract or not.

I may find a way to get more $$$ out of it, if possible, but I can't see me forcing my way to stay somewhere even if it's my contractual right (though I'm also not a egocentric professional hockey player).
SNY has the transcript  
NYerInMA : 2/8/2018 5:17 pm : link
of the presser
Everything that Jeff Gorton and Glen Sather said on Thursday - ( New Window )
some of this stuff is refreshing, very un-Mara like  
ColHowPepper : 2/8/2018 6:17 pm : link
e.g., where it comes to the impact of injuries:

[i]Did injuries change things, "we have a lot of them but to say that we are in that spot because of injuries, I'm not here to say that. We aren't going to say that. We haven't played well. What you are seeing on the ice is not what we hoped for and that is basically where we are.....

On where the organization is, "I would say that we definitely thought we would be better than this. When we made the trade that we did in the summer time to get the 7th pick overall and traded a pretty good player in Stepan, we knew we were resetting it. As the season has developed, like I said, it hasn't gone the way we wanted it to go and it will force us into some decisions to think long term and start to try to rebuild and build a Stanley Cup contender."
.  
arcarsenal : 2/8/2018 8:20 pm : link
So, who's the first to go?

Zuccarello? To Calgary?
Arc  
brunswick : 2/8/2018 8:28 pm : link
You hearing something?
I have to think faster is better on this  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 11:39 am : link
usually your best offer is your first one... and while they play meaningless games here, they could get hurt. According to that article above, a lot of scouts were at our last game (i'm sure these players looked good losing 6-1)... never understand why scouts need to see a game live to assess a veteran player.

The rumored asking price for Nash of a first + top prospect + middle round pick/mid tier prospect is a joke... all teams try this, be it Duchene or Buflygien a few years ago or Patches ... never understood why.

Just start out realistic and manage fan/other teams expectations from the get go. The market is going to bid what it perceives as fair value regardless.
RE: I have to think faster is better on this  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 13827567 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
usually your best offer is your first one... and while they play meaningless games here, they could get hurt. According to that article above, a lot of scouts were at our last game (i'm sure these players looked good losing 6-1)... never understand why scouts need to see a game live to assess a veteran player.

The rumored asking price for Nash of a first + top prospect + middle round pick/mid tier prospect is a joke... all teams try this, be it Duchene or Buflygien a few years ago or Patches ... never understood why.

Just start out realistic and manage fan/other teams expectations from the get go. The market is going to bid what it perceives as fair value regardless.


I agree with you in principle but Duchene may not be the best example. And he, like Pacioretty as opposed to Nash and Evander Kane, has another year on his contract.

Duchene netted:
Girard (decent prospect)
Kamenev (decent prospect)
Bowers (decent prospect)
2018 1st, 2nd, and 2019 3rd round picks

so they didn't get a high end prospect per se, but Girard is pretty good, right now playing top 6 D minutes in the NHL at 19 years old.

I would be lying if I said I know the other prospects that well but Bowers is at BU and was a 1st round pick in 2017.


Dude at the BSB comments has been claiming he's hearing  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 11:48 am : link
Zuccarello to Dallas rumors.
Not surprisingly, and unfortunately  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 1:25 pm : link
Smith cleared waivers and is now a member of the WolfPack.

Not... Gorton's finest hour.
Rangers  
jv : 2/9/2018 1:32 pm : link
have recalled John Gilmour. Won fastest skater in AHL All Star Game. Has had a good season in Hartford.

Does this mean something is already happening? Hopefully..
Pretty cool article on the Islander/Rangers goaltending prospects.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/9/2018 1:36 pm : link
.
In Goal Mag - ( New Window )
Gilmour, Pionk, whoever  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 1:38 pm : link
The defense already is horrid - what do they have to lose by giving these guys a chance?
excellent find, Brett  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 1:42 pm : link
Mainly because it argues that Shestyorkin is the more likely to succeed in North America :)
RE: excellent find, Brett  
BrettNYG10 : 2/9/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13827708 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Mainly because it argues that Shestyorkin is the more likely to succeed in North America :)


Ha! I'm excited to see the Rangers have another wasted 15 years of elite goaltending.

I would have liked to see Graves called up as well.
I mean ... have we seen Hartford's record this year?  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 1:58 pm : link
I'm fine bringing these kids up and getting them exposure... and more excited that it will mean we should be able to plummet maybe into the top 5.

(of course, when was the last time NYR/NYK did well in a lottery? Dolan's a dick... but man his teams cant buy a break with these pong balls)

PS someone actually bought my Capitals/NYR 3/26 game on ticketexchange for above face today (and thats net of fees)... they must not be paying attention. Thank you!

they've never been high on Ryan Graves and I'm not sure why  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 1:58 pm : link
He's not an elite prospect, of course, but he seems like a kid who could hold his own on the third pairing better than Holden or, god help us, Kampfer.
Staal  
Professor Falken : 2/9/2018 1:58 pm : link
placed on IR.
they're 22-20-4  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 2:04 pm : link
They're not nearly as bad as last year, and when you consider how shallow the talent is at fwd and how bad their goaltending is, I don't think that record's bad at all. They don't have any top-shelf prospects outside of Chytil and now Andersson, but they have some guys who could be useful.
RE: Staal  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13827736 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
placed on IR.


I may an asshole for saying it, but hopefully that turns into LTIR
wow... i hadnt looked in a month  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 2:06 pm : link
didnt realize they were 7-0-1 over the last couple weeks
RE: RE: Staal  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13827748 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13827736 Professor Falken said:


Quote:


placed on IR.



I may an asshole for saying it, but hopefully that turns into LTIR


we dont need the cap space this year though so who cares (I think)
RE: Pretty cool article on the Islander/Rangers goaltending prospects.  
pganut : 2/9/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13827694 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
. In Goal Mag - ( New Window )
Yup, nice find, Brett. Thanks.

And Greg, it wouldn't surprise me if somehow Sorokin never found his way to North America. It would be so Islanders (however, that may well be dulled when Soderstrom makes the big club). It would be, though.
RE: wow... i hadnt looked in a month  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13827750 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
didnt realize they were 7-0-1 over the last couple weeks


Chytil getting healthy and Andersson arriving played a big part in that, I'm guessing
how far away is Soderstrom?  
Greg from LI : 2/9/2018 2:19 pm : link
Also, it would amuse me, at least, if the Isles ended up with another goalie named Soderstrom.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/9/2018 2:25 pm : link
Quote:
(of course, when was the last time NYR/NYK did well in a lottery? Dolan's a dick... but man his teams cant buy a break with these pong balls)


Dolan isn't paying commissioners off because he sucks.
Russia  
pjcas18 : 2/9/2018 2:25 pm : link
has 3 goalies in the top 10 overall NHL prospects (the only goalies in the top 15.

Samsonov could eventually be the best of the 3, he was the only one taken in the 1st round of the 3 I believe. He's still just 20 years old and has the best size, but he has been oversold (on his capabilities) every time I've seen him. But he is just 20.

Shestyorkin and Sorokin are both lights out in the KHL this year, but I have no clue how goalies (or anyone) play translates from KHL to NHL.

Could be a good rivalry if they come over here at the same time.
RE: how far away is Soderstrom?  
pganut : 2/9/2018 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13827775 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Also, it would amuse me, at least, if the Isles ended up with another goalie named Soderstrom.
He'll at least be in Bridgeport to start the year. Right now coming off an abdominal surgery and has been on the shelf for HV71 in the SHL. But he won the SHL for them this past season and had won top goaltender in the 2016 WJC for Sweden previous to that. Great kid, has Asperger's, and uses his bit of celebrity to do a lot of awareness promotion. Rooting for him.
Not a bad ESPN article today  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 5:45 pm : link

Agree those are probably the two (only) landing spots for Hank anytime soon, and maybe close enough to "home" that he'd consider it... but doubt it and doubt either of those teams wants to tie up 8.5 mil into their goalie next 3 years.. Rangers would have to absorb 2-3mil/year

ESPN Article - Heavy Rangers discussion - ( New Window )
Am I seeing things or is  
RodneyHamp : 2/9/2018 7:27 pm : link
Fast wearing an A on his jersey? When did that happen?
Gilmour’s skating is  
bigbluehoya : 2/9/2018 7:49 pm : link
Pretty outstanding
They can't even lose right  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 9:58 pm : link

Hopefully this four game road trip produces lousy results

But it would be great if they'd stop being drama queens with letters and press conferences and start the damn rebuild
Maybe I'm off but it seems more people are for the Rangers tanking...  
BestFeature : 2/9/2018 10:22 pm : link
...than the Giants. Even though there are significantly more games to hope the Rangers lose.
Kind of expected that one  
bigbluehoya : 2/9/2018 10:38 pm : link
Perfect storm:

Back at home
Just got absolutely embarrassed
Media frenzy after the presser/letter from the FO
Good number of young guys / joirneumen up getting a chance that they want to make the most of
Coach seemingly on the hot seat

Figured they’d skate real hard for 60 minutes.

L’s are probably better than W’s, but a couple of decent performances between now and the TDL may be a good thing, especially if Nash and Grabner tally some points.
I think the world knows what Nash and Grabner are at this point  
MetsAreBack : 2/9/2018 10:49 pm : link
Nash goes for a 1st rounder and a medium grinder prospect or conditional pick (second rounder if it doesn't work out well for acquiring team)

Grabner fetches a 2nd and 4th. He is Lee stempniak's clone from two/three years ago.

Apparently islanders were down 5-2 with 6 minutes left tonight and some idiot on Detroit committed a major that gave isles last 6 minutes on power play - they scored 4 goals. I didn't even know that rule existed.

Maybe this gets them excited to go get McDonough and Lundqvist!!
It was a 10 minute match penalty  
KWhite2250 : 2/9/2018 11:13 pm : link
It was only a 5 min major. They actually gave up the tying goal in last minute after the major expired
.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/10/2018 11:27 am : link
.
Major Penalty - ( New Window )
Yeah if a major penalty is called  
NYerInMA : 2/10/2018 11:30 am : link
the entire 5-minute PP is served, regardless of how many times the PP team scores. That gif of the penalty is laughable though.
Barzal had a five point night.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/10/2018 11:32 am : link
He has to win the Calder.
RE: Barzal had a five point night.  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 11:56 am : link
In comment 13828364 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
He has to win the Calder.


Barzal or Boeser.

Both unreal. The young talent in the NHL right now is crazy.

RE: Yeah if a major penalty is called  
pganut : 2/10/2018 11:59 am : link
In comment 13828362 NYerInMA said:
Quote:
the entire 5-minute PP is served, regardless of how many times the PP team scores. That gif of the penalty is laughable though.
Eh, calls even out. Isles had questionable calls go against them with goaltender interference and a too many men penalty that the refs didn't call. There was also a blatant and obvious slew foot with Abdelkeder sweeping Boychuk's legs out from underneath him in the crease that I think the refs knew they blew which I think also led to this call. Even if not "overly" violent, it was a two handed slash at a knee with intent.
What was Clutterbuck even trying to cross check before that?  
MetsAreBack : 2/10/2018 1:08 pm : link
maybe its a funny angle, but looks like he went to cross check random air in front of his bench and the Wings player thought... i dont know what he thought.
And calls didnt even out  
MetsAreBack : 2/10/2018 1:09 pm : link
the Islanders scored 4x on that man advantage - so basically they got 4 different power plays out of it. You listed maybe 2 missed calls.

Whatever though I'm glad both those teams got points in that one.... just sucks we picked up meaningless points, most likely because Pavelec and Hank then proceeded to play well.
RE: What was Clutterbuck even trying to cross check before that?  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13828435 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
maybe its a funny angle, but looks like he went to cross check random air in front of his bench and the Wings player thought... i dont know what he thought.

It looked to me like he got slew footed, didn't fall, and honestly the slew foot seemed kind of incidental since Clutterbuck looked to be changing, but the guy who slew footed him was too far away, so he went to hit the closest player he could find, Bertuzzi, and Bertuzzi reacted the way you saw.

just the way I saw it, a major penalty on that is ridiculous, but the refs never see the whole play, they only see the retaliation.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/10/2018 1:18 pm : link
The major was absurd, but giving up 4 goals is just as stupid. No sympathy for the Wings.

Adam Herman at BSB made this chart about Chytil. Future GOAT.

Pastrnak  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 1:54 pm : link
had 27 points in 46 NHL games that season too as an 18 year old.

If Chytil is close to Pastrnak (and I don't think he is, but who knows, projection isn't easy for hockey) that's a HR for the Rangers.


....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/10/2018 2:03 pm : link
Even if he's a Nylander, it will be a home run for the Rangers.

I hope he gets a look at the end of the season.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13828472 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Even if he's a Nylander, it will be a home run for the Rangers.

I hope he gets a look at the end of the season.


Agree, both players (Pastrnak and Nylander) have the benefit of playing next to world class centers. Chytil won't have that luxury, he'll be the C probably. Should be interesting to see if he and Andersson both stay at C or if they move Chytil to win alongside Andersson.

I think he should get a look, but until they fire AV not sure how that will work, AV probably still thinks he's coaching for his job. Even if that decision is already made.
RE: RE: What was Clutterbuck even trying to cross check before that?  
NYerInMA : 2/10/2018 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13828439 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13828435 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


maybe its a funny angle, but looks like he went to cross check random air in front of his bench and the Wings player thought... i dont know what he thought.


It looked to me like he got slew footed, didn't fall, and honestly the slew foot seemed kind of incidental since Clutterbuck looked to be changing, but the guy who slew footed him was too far away, so he went to hit the closest player he could find, Bertuzzi, and Bertuzzi reacted the way you saw.

just the way I saw it, a major penalty on that is ridiculous, but the refs never see the whole play, they only see the retaliation.


Yeah, I've would've given two minutes for that play.
Rangers signed  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 8:52 pm : link
7th round pick from '16, Ty Ronning, Cliff's son (Cliff was awesome in Sega Hockey '94) to an ELD.

He's been tearing up the WHL.
He was a role player in 93  
MetsAreBack : 2/10/2018 9:19 pm : link
Solid, but Linden and Bure carried the play in sega that year.

Still it was Roenick, Yzerman and Federov and everyone else. One sneaky good player was Ridley on Washington - I had many a hat trick for that guy. But in retrospect I can't believe they didn't send you to the box for running over goalies on a breakaway. Was an easy way to score!

But mostly can't believe they made gretzky such a soft bitch. Was so easy to pummel him in fight and take him off the ice most of game
RE: He was a role player in 93  
pjcas18 : 2/10/2018 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13828850 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
Solid, but Linden and Bure carried the play in sega that year.

Still it was Roenick, Yzerman and Federov and everyone else. One sneaky good player was Ridley on Washington - I had many a hat trick for that guy. But in retrospect I can't believe they didn't send you to the box for running over goalies on a breakaway. Was an easy way to score!

But mostly can't believe they made gretzky such a soft bitch. Was so easy to pummel him in fight and take him off the ice most of game


When we played no one could be Chicago, Roenick was unstoppable.

Buffalo was a sneaky good team. Mogilny, Lafontaine, Hawerchuck.

There were players like Bure and Selanne who had more speed, but that move with Roenick was unstoppable.
5 Minute Major ... I've never seen a team score 4 goals - hell,  
baadbill : 2/10/2018 10:06 pm : link
I've been watching hockey for 50+ years and I'd guess I could count on one hand the times I've seen two goals scored during a 5 minute major ... four is just nuts

Speaking of power plays, the rule I keep thinking about is the penalty shot... so often I find myself hoping the ref doesn't call a penalty shot... I think the penalized team should have the option to choose a penalty shot or a power play (or a power play if the penalty shot is missed).
Jeus Christ  
MetsAreBack : 2/11/2018 5:41 pm : link
we're going to pick 15th in the fucking draft.

By all means, Gorton, continue to take your merry fucking time trading some of these guys.
RE: Jeus Christ  
redbeard : 2/11/2018 6:31 pm : link
In comment 13829294 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
we're going to pick 15th in the fucking draft.

By all means, Gorton, continue to take your merry fucking time trading some of these guys.


I can easily see this team trading all the assets and the running of a week or two of winning hockey just to royally fuck up the draft slot

Because that’s the most Rangers thing they could do
Sabres  
pjcas18 : 2/11/2018 8:10 pm : link
lost Eichel indefinitely to a HAS.

Not sure anyone is catching them or AZ at this point.

Rangers D actually looked better without Staal and Smith. Still seemed like the team as a whole gave up a lot of shots, but the D all seemed to have decent recovery speed and solid neutral zone play.
They were missing McDonaugh today too  
MetsAreBack : 2/11/2018 8:32 pm : link
.

Jets must really suck - that's embarrassing to lose at home to a team with Skjei and 5 AHL'ers on D
Hank is something special  
Kyle in NY : 2/12/2018 12:41 am : link
Losing is best for this franchise right now but I can't help at marvel at the competitiveness and the pride shown by the goaltender. He just can't let the team down.

Such a joke that AV called him out the other night.
Lundqvist was the reason Tortorella was canned, right?  
Greg from LI : 2/12/2018 1:04 am : link
Given the way Veeenyo has been treating him, hope Henrik lowers the boom on him too.
Callahan had a lot to do with Torts being canned too  
MetsAreBack : 2/12/2018 9:12 am : link
in retrospect, in a strike shortened season, we got creamed in the second round by a really good Boston team without half our defense (Hamrlich was getting serious minutes by game 4), Nash had a hip injury, and Hagelin and Callahan were playing with torn rotator cuffs.

We had no chance. AV inherited a hell of a lot more here and has done far less with it than Torts.

Lundqvist must be on pace to appear in 68-70 games at this point. As mentioned above, its killing our draft positioning... but kudos to Hank for leading by example I guess. Technically, we're only 2 points out of playoff position.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 2/12/2018 9:33 am : link
Ryan Whitney apparently said he heard Dolan doesn't like McDonagh as captain.

I suspect McDonagh is traded sometime over the next week. If they can get Sergachev+ from TB I'd be okay with it.
Reddit - ( New Window )
Maybe experts are right  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 9:34 am : link
and it's going to be a saturated sellers market.

Brassard not a rental, but also not as good as Nash, Pacioretty, Kane, even grabner has a unique skill that Brassard doesn't. But Brassard is an NHL C (as you know) and none of those are guys are and that carries a premium for some teams.

Goalie, strength up the middle and solid defensive (at least) top 4 D. that's the formula for championships according to some "experts". It's why a lot of people highlight NSH as a cup contender.

Quote:

Pierre LeBrun
‏Verified account @PierreVLeBrun
52m52 minutes ago

Senators talking to teams about Derick Brassard; price is believed to be a 1st RD pick, top prospect plus 3rd piece. Brassard has another year left on his deal next season at $5 M aav although it's $3.5 M in real cash
I'm fine trading McDonaugh if we get a nice haul  
MetsAreBack : 2/12/2018 10:02 am : link

But if its indeed a "buyers market" then i would not.

Dont know what to make of the Dolan rumor - he hasnt gotten involved in the Rangers since the lock-out, and we've been a better franchise for it... but with Porzingis out for a year+, i am concerned he will care about us again. That would make this rebuild effort monumentally worse.
RE: ...  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:10 am : link
In comment 13829672 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Ryan Whitney apparently said he heard Dolan doesn't like McDonagh as captain.

I suspect McDonagh is traded sometime over the next week. If they can get Sergachev+ from TB I'd be okay with it. Reddit - ( New Window )


LOL. that was a joke wasn't it? Sergachev is better than McDonagh today as a 19-year old, so I thought that guy was being sarcastic.

You think so?  
BrettNYG10 : 2/12/2018 10:13 am : link
I haven't watched enough of TB.

Maybe I need to dial down expectations lol.
RE: You think so?  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 13829703 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I haven't watched enough of TB.

Maybe I need to dial down expectations lol.


yes. He's a beast. 6'3 220 pound solid skater, booming shot, more offensive skill at 19 than McDonagh will ever have and he's learning defensively.

I don't know if I would trade Sergachev for McDonagh and Chytil.

Sergachev will be a perennial Norris candidate if he continues his growth (I know, where have I heard that before?), but Sergachev is less projection more evidence of being that player.
Now I'm sad.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/12/2018 10:23 am : link
Also don't ever suggest trading Chytil. Blasphemy.
He's not better right now, come on  
Kyle in NY : 2/12/2018 10:24 am : link
He's playing very sheltered minutes, about 15 mins a night, and a lot of his points have come on the power play. I'm not sure how much they'll use him in the playoffs. Some of that is due to coach conservatism, but it's still true

Don't get me wrong, he looks like he'll be special. And eventually he'll be better, no doubt. But McD might have more value to them now as a team trying to win now because he slots right into their top 4 and has proven he can handle tough playoff minutes.

That said, I'm guessing he's still off limits. Rangers could target Namestnikov, Foote, Howden, etc. They have a good system
Yeah Sergachev  
jv : 2/12/2018 10:27 am : link
is looking like an elite player. History says Yzerman is not going to get fleeced on a trade. He's made a lot of GM's look bad. On top of that he's used that Florida tax advantage to get guys on ridiculous contracts. Fuck Tampa.
and cooper still coaches them  
Greg from LI : 2/12/2018 10:32 am : link
Smarmiest, most obnoxious bastard in the NHL. Man, I despise that team.
Well maybe better now (overall)  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:34 am : link
is a stretch, but if I had a choice right now of Sergachev or McDonagh it's not close, I (and probably every GM IMO) would take Sergachev because of all the considerations (age, $$, size, plus skill).

It's hard to compare stats of a 19-year old vs a 29-year old.

If the Rangers get Sergachev or McDonagh I'll be beyond surprised. I didn't want the Canadiens to trade him for Drouin. And the Canadiens had to throw a conditional pick into the trade on top of Sergachev. Bergevin is not a great GM. Maybe TB GM has weaknesses too.

70% offensive zone starts for Sergachev  
Kyle in NY : 2/12/2018 10:37 am : link
They're bringing him along slowly because they can. But they really could use a proven guy on their second pair because I can't see them suddenly closing out games with the rookie they really haven't used yet in that role.

I think we can get a good price from them even without Sergachev
Yeah no doubt he's a better asset  
Kyle in NY : 2/12/2018 10:41 am : link
But they seem to have a two year window to win before the cap crunch hits. Maybe McD has more value to them just for these two seasons? Just a thought, but I'd be surprised if it happened. Yzerman is pretty good
They already have Girardi  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 10:43 am : link
and Stralman (plus Callahan), NYR's south?

....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/12/2018 10:44 am : link
2019-2020 defense confirmed:

Dahlin-Karlsson
Sergachev-Shattenkirk
Skjei-DeAngelo
Tampa's obviously not trading Sergachev for McD  
MetsAreBack : 2/12/2018 10:51 am : link
you can be so gullible, PJ. Its cute.

And these meaningless wins lately are taking us out of any small chance to get Dahlin too. Fuckin' idiots, I'd have been happy with anyone in the top 5 based on PJ's recent posts.. but gonna be hard to do that when we finish with a cool 78-80 points and <10% chance to finish in top 3 (zero percent chance to pick 4 or 5)
it can't continue  
Greg from LI : 2/12/2018 10:55 am : link
Pavelec is out for a while and Henrik turns 36 in a few weeks. His workload was already ridiculous and it will only get worse.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/12/2018 11:04 am : link
I've seen some people elsewhere say that this was a 'transition year' to start with - I'm not buying that narrative. If it was, you don't sign Shattenkirk, you don't buy out Girardi, you trade more assets than Stepan this past off-season, you don't play Lundqvist as often as they have, you don't chase Thornton/Marleau in the off-season, and you don't re-sign Smith. And you don't retain AV, either.

I think they tried threading the needle and seemed to have failed. It seemed a bit directionless. Are they going full, 3-4 year rebuild or are they going to sign Kovalchuk in the off-season and try to make another run next year?
Agreed  
Kyle in NY : 2/12/2018 11:08 am : link
They tried to rebuild on the fly and just couldn't do it. I think they could have done it if they'd just fired AV after he completely blew the Ottawa series
RE: Tampa's obviously not trading Sergachev for McD  
pjcas18 : 2/12/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13829738 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
you can be so gullible, PJ. Its cute.

And these meaningless wins lately are taking us out of any small chance to get Dahlin too. Fuckin' idiots, I'd have been happy with anyone in the top 5 based on PJ's recent posts.. but gonna be hard to do that when we finish with a cool 78-80 points and <10% chance to finish in top 3 (zero percent chance to pick 4 or 5)


I didn't think it was realistic, however over the weekend there was a twitter thread where it was proposed. It was proposed in a "well what do you want back for McDonagh?" question since some people were not happy with the "experts" suggestions about the return he'd get, not a what is realistic, and sometimes people (Brett) run with stuff like that.

Rangers still have a lot of road games left, but hockey, maybe different than some sports, maybe not, is hard to tank - without a true blow up in trades/injuries.

those 20 skaters are not going to lay down to get a better draft pick and teams like NYR (and MTL - especially when Weber comes back) while maybe flawed teams, are more talented than their records.


Definitely directionless  
MetsAreBack : 2/12/2018 12:01 pm : link
my concern is Dolan will never let this team truly rebuild - he'd rather sell (the third most expensive in league) tickets. In some ways its easier to build a winner in Columbus or Florida (less pressure to 'win now') than it is in New York.

I dont think they expected to sign Shattenkirk - taking a below market deal was a shock to everyone. If they had expected KS to sign here, then signing Smith was utterly incompetent (it still was... but i'd have more compassion if he were the only one).

I think the Stepan trade was as much about blaming him for last season's playoff failure (he struggled + IIRC he got into it with Lundqvist one Ottawa game too) as it was about retooling on the fly. (of course - if the team could hold an empty net lead in games 2 or 5, they win the series... and the coach should be blamed there for having Staal and Glass on the ice, repeatedly, during those meltdowns)
RE: ....  
Giants in 07 : 2/12/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13829754 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I've seen some people elsewhere say that this was a 'transition year' to start with - I'm not buying that narrative. If it was, you don't sign Shattenkirk, you don't buy out Girardi, you trade more assets than Stepan this past off-season, you don't play Lundqvist as often as they have, you don't chase Thornton/Marleau in the off-season, and you don't re-sign Smith. And you don't retain AV, either.

I think they tried threading the needle and seemed to have failed. It seemed a bit directionless. Are they going full, 3-4 year rebuild or are they going to sign Kovalchuk in the off-season and try to make another run next year?


Probably both. It's the Ranger way.
IDK MAB  
Giants in 07 : 2/12/2018 4:10 pm : link
Shattenkirk wanting to play here was the worst kept secret in the league. From what I remember, it was a matter of when, not if, he would be a Ranger
Kampfer  
Professor Falken : 2/12/2018 6:36 pm : link
out 4-6 weeks with a broken hand. Defenseman Ryan Sproul called up from Hartford.
RE: Kampfer  
NYerInMA : 2/12/2018 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13830343 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
out 4-6 weeks with a broken hand. Defenseman Ryan Sproul called up from Hartford.


Sounds like addition by subtraction!
This injury probably hurts AV more than  
MetsAreBack : 2/12/2018 9:50 pm : link
Shattenkirks. It's like he lost a son today.
Jeez, even now Graves can't get a shot?  
Greg from LI : 2/13/2018 6:56 am : link
Who is Ryan Sproul??
Lias Andersson  
jv : 2/13/2018 8:09 am : link
is apparently going to stay in Hartford instead of returning to Frolunda. I like this a lot. Get him used to playing on North American ice and in a more physical league. Should put him in a good position to be ready for the big club next season. May even see him play a few games with the Rangers before the season is over.
RE: Jeez, even now Graves can't get a shot?  
BrettNYG10 : 2/13/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 13830649 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Who is Ryan Sproul??


Yeah, what happened to Graves?

Rangers defense is now comprised of a mediocre AHL team and Nick Holden and Brady Skjei.
RE: Jeez, even now Graves can't get a shot?  
jv : 2/13/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13830649 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Who is Ryan Sproul??


I would assume the thought is replace a right shot with a right shot d-man. It is surprising though that we've called up all these D-men and Ryan Graves doesn't get a sniff. Maybe when Holden gets traded for a high five and a chest bump.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/13/2018 4:17 pm : link
Opening part about analytics so pj will be mad. Quick line on Pacioretty (who cares) and Ranger stuff:

Quote:
1. Stealth possibility for Max Pacioretty: Florida. Would be interesting. The Panthers have a lot of talent, with Henrik Borgstrom ready for prime time after this season at NCAA Denver.

6. Steve Yzerman told Tampa Bay Times beat writer Joe Smith, “We are trying to win. We would want to add to our team, not go sideways.”

That said, if he wanted to, I could see a package of players, prospects and picks that could tempt the Rangers for both Nash and Ryan McDonagh.

7. Family connection I didn’t know existed: Ryan McDonagh’s agent, Ben Hankinson, is the brother-in-law of Boston assistant coach Kevin Dean. The Bruins are interested, but, like everyone else, know it will be a big price to pay.

31 Thoughts - ( New Window )
Forgot this.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/13/2018 4:17 pm : link
Quote:
5. Nashville definitely is all in on Rick Nash. The question is if they can outbid a large field. They already dealt Sam Girard, Vladislav Kamenev and their second-round pick in the Kyle Turris deal, so how deep are they willing to go? A first-rounder that might be 27th or lower won’t do it. They’ve still got excellent prospects (Dante Fabbro and Eeli Tolvanen atop the list) and no doubt the Rangers will try to leverage from those.
Tolvanen has 34 points in 47 KHL games this season  
Kyle in NY : 2/13/2018 7:40 pm : link
For an 18 year old in the second best pro league in the world, that's pretty special. I'd take him straight up for Nash. Have to believe he'd be a tough pull, but maybe Fabbro is on the table. Nash's strong play of late with everybody watching can't hurt our chances of getting a good deal.
Reusable thread title  
bigbluehoya : 2/13/2018 8:21 pm : link
Is reusable
A Nick Holden special  
Stufftherun : 2/13/2018 8:21 pm : link
to start things off. Wish there was a stat for Dmen caught 50 - 100 feet out of position turning the puck over and leading to a goal.

Nash puts one in ...his own net that is. Will that be the last image of him in a Rangers sweater?

And more bumbling and fumbling in their own end. The ass raping continues ...
.  
arcarsenal : 2/13/2018 8:29 pm : link
Here I am turning the game on tonight...

That's better boys...  
MetsAreBack : 2/13/2018 9:09 pm : link
you scared me last two games, but this is back to where i want us to be the rest of the way.

Why do I feel like this person?? I hate this... but its for the best.


Gorton to institute a series of fines for good play  
Greg from LI : 2/13/2018 9:19 pm : link
.
Great, we're coming back....  
MetsAreBack : 2/13/2018 9:38 pm : link
definitely coddling these guys too much.
Trade alert!  
NYerInMA : 2/13/2018 9:55 pm : link
.
Sens trade Phaneuf, Thompson to Kings for Gaborik, Shore - ( New Window )
Have to confess ...  
Stufftherun : 2/13/2018 10:17 pm : link
it’s fun watching the kids out there on the backline getting some valuable ice time. Despite the shaky first 10 minutes, they really are playing loose and free. Nice to see Tony D’s confidence growing game after game.
Young defensemen look pretty good  
Kyle in NY : 2/13/2018 10:39 pm : link
Some probably should have been with the team from the start of the season
In today’s NHL  
bigbluehoya : 2/14/2018 7:13 am : link
It seems increasingly obvious that the way to build a defensive corps is to have 2-3 well-paid studs and fill out the bottom end with young guys who don’t make a lot of dough who can skate.

Paying free agents on term deals to round out the bottom half doesn’t make sense. If you feel like you need to add a veteran for a playoff run, the price of getting one at the TDL is always doable.
RE: In today’s NHL  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 8:37 am : link
In comment 13831846 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
It seems increasingly obvious that the way to build a defensive corps is to have 2-3 well-paid studs and fill out the bottom end with young guys who don’t make a lot of dough who can skate.

Paying free agents on term deals to round out the bottom half doesn’t make sense. If you feel like you need to add a veteran for a playoff run, the price of getting one at the TDL is always doable.



Yup, its the same issue for 3rd/4th line forwards and back-up goalies.
I just stopped by to see if we might be able to borrow that letter...  
pganut : 2/14/2018 9:12 am : link
...to the fans. Holy shitballs; looks like I picked the wrong season to stop sniffing glue.

Should be a rousing Battle for Last Place on Thursday. Like watching two monkeys trying to fuck a football.
RE: I just stopped by to see if we might be able to borrow that letter...  
Metnut : 2/14/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 13831923 pganut said:
Quote:
...to the fans. Holy shitballs; looks like I picked the wrong season to stop sniffing glue.

Should be a rousing Battle for Last Place on Thursday. Like watching two monkeys trying to fuck a football.


I hate sports.
Mike Sauer was at the game last night.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 9:42 am : link
:(
Hopefully he's at least leading a normal, painfree life again  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 9:45 am : link
.
RE: I just stopped by to see if we might be able to borrow that letter...  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 13831923 pganut said:
Quote:
...to the fans. Holy shitballs; looks like I picked the wrong season to stop sniffing glue.

Should be a rousing Battle for Last Place on Thursday. Like watching two monkeys trying to fuck a football.


LOL, its like going back to the 'rivalry' of the 1999-2001 years. You guys can have this one - i want a top 5 draft pick.

You guys should be buyers by the way - you've got to figure out a way to keep JT excited to stay... but i heard Garth doesnt want to part with either potential lottery pick (even though chances are they will both be in 11-15 range), so may be tough.
RE: Hopefully he's at least leading a normal, painfree life again  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 9:48 am : link
In comment 13831994 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


And Phaneuf was in the news yesterday with the trade too. Though I cant blame DP for that one - the hit didnt look that bad at the time and Sauer's head should have been up too. But damnit that sucked.
Things could have worked out differently with a healthy Sauer  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 9:53 am : link
He was their best defensive defenseman. Bah.
Did we pick up Stralman after Sauer went down though?  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 10:05 am : link
I see in 2011-2012, Stralman only played 53 games while Sauer played 19. Looks like there was a 1-2 week overlap between the two players, they were rarely rostered in the same game.
RE: RE: I just stopped by to see if we might be able to borrow that letter...  
pganut : 2/14/2018 10:07 am : link
In comment 13831999 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
You guys should be buyers by the way - you've got to figure out a way to keep JT excited to stay... but i heard Garth doesnt want to part with either potential lottery pick (even though chances are they will both be in 11-15 range), so may be tough.
I believe we do nothing, ultimately. We'd be selling low on anyone at this point (see: Nelson, Brock) since no one has any real value - players with no heart and guts are useless, and I'm sure they won't move Barzal, Pulock or Beauvillier, nor should they. If they make a move now, the outcomes are: 1. simply rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic; 2. you make a move for the sake of making a move and trade away a precious ascending, cost controlled asset (like the names mentioned above) in return for one of lesser value; 3. You make a move - for example, our group has talked about Gudbranson - but the economic implications not only adversely affect the cap situation, but just as well bring yet another body in that takes the place of what they should have been integrating all along, and in this case on D, you'd then logjam guys like Devon Toews, Aho and Salo behind a player who frankly doesn't fit in the team's long range plans. Trade for a goalie now? Well, if you subscribe to Sorokin or Soderstrom being near-ready, do you bring a 24 year old G (Mrazek) or 26 year old G (Lehner) that at their salaries which means even more time not integrating the top prospects at that position? I don't.

Bottom line, and I used this line with our crew this morning, is that Garth Nero has been fiddling now for many years. Our Rome is finally burning. The disease isn't just on ice, it's rampant in the coaching staff and through the top of the organization.Time for our genial and productive new owners to do what's right. Think about it - our GM just said in a great article in The Atlantic (you should subscribe, BTW...great content) - that our lack of success this year is based on injuries to de Haan and Toews. Think about that - the first a guy who the Isles let go to arbitration because they didn't want to pay him as they feel/felt he wasn't worth the money and are going to lose at season's end, and the second a guy they have buried at BPT that had played in 0 NHL games to that point (and to be fair, he was gonna get the callup when de Haan got hurt, but Toews suffered a season-ending injury at the same time). Yup, that's why we've faltered.

So if I'm JT, while playing with a guy like Barzal is exciting and bears weighing, why would I re-sign? What commitment has there been to building a winning culture? I guess that's what happens when you install organizational leadership that has never won anything, Weight's peripheral Cup in NC notwithstanding.
Rangers signed Stralman on November 3rd and Sauer was hurt  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 10:08 am : link
December 5th.
I guess you answered your own question.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 10:08 am : link
Nvm.
Good morning  
Carl in CT : 2/14/2018 10:09 am : link
Brett.
Thanks - thats insightful  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 10:13 am : link
what's the deal with Ho-Sang?

I do think with average goaltending and better D this year, you guys are in a much different place. Too bad there's not a deal for McDonaugh and Lundqvist going your way - though it looks like your cap situation is somehow a mess (that's on the GM), so even with us taking back some bad contracts (Greiss, Seidenberg, etc) it wouldnt work. Contracts like Boychuk's and Ladd's are a killer. I said at the time - a broken clock is right twice a day - letting Okposo go who was such a big part of that ascending year for you two years ago and replacing with Ladd was incompetent.
RE: I guess you answered your own question.  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 13832040 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Nvm.



And Torts wasnt a complete stubborn idiot like the current guy so they probably would have eventually got on the ice together... but Stralman was at the time a journeyman who hadnt shown anything, so not a stretch to say in a perverse way that the Sauer injury was maybe the best thing that ever happened to Stralman's career.

Still - if we resign Stralman and let Girardi or Staal walk, we're probably Cup champions in 2015.
RE: Good morning  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 13832041 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Brett.


Good morning Carl!
RE: Thanks - thats insightful  
pganut : 2/14/2018 10:31 am : link
In comment 13832050 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
what's the deal with Ho-Sang?

I do think with average goaltending and better D this year, you guys are in a much different place. Too bad there's not a deal for McDonaugh and Lundqvist going your way - though it looks like your cap situation is somehow a mess (that's on the GM), so even with us taking back some bad contracts (Greiss, Seidenberg, etc) it wouldnt work. Contracts like Boychuk's and Ladd's are a killer. I said at the time - a broken clock is right twice a day - letting Okposo go who was such a big part of that ascending year for you two years ago and replacing with Ladd was incompetent.
Ho-Sang rightly needs to commit to playing two ways and show more responsibility not only protecting and maintaining the puck, but back on D, so they wanted him getting minutes in BPT to provide that. My problem is, BPT coach Brent Thompson is wired the same way Weight is and Cappy before him, so I'm not sure he's getting the best coaching in general. Our organ-eye-zational philosophy seems to be "the beatings will continue until morale improves". But he surely can't be worse than trotting Chimera, Quine or Fritz - none of whom should be on an NHL roster - out there.

Actually, our cap situation is fine, but the domino to fall is what the cap will look like heading into 18-19 as a large percentage will be allocated to Tavares, as you'd expect. They need to see what it'll rise to because they'll need to also see what it'll take to resign other UFAs like Bailey. So adding a Gudbranson, who while I'm sure is a good guy, is frankly a stiff and at his $6M per is a stupid move if we committed to that at a trade deadline. That won't fix the deeper issues that are more system related as opposed to not having the right guys in the room.
RE: RE: Hopefully he's at least leading a normal, painfree life again  
Jay in Toronto : 2/14/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 13832002 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 13831994 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



And Phaneuf was in the news yesterday with the trade too. Though I cant blame DP for that one - the hit didnt look that bad at the time and Sauer's head should have been up too. But damnit that sucked.


It was definitely a charge -- but they don't seem to call it anymore.
The defense looking competent  
Kyle in NY : 2/14/2018 11:52 am : link
without McDonagh does give me some confidence they can trade him without taking that big a step back defensively. This has been a good audition for Skjei getting first pair minutes. Deangelo has impressed and Pionk looks like he could be something.

Hopefully they're now seeing the value of young defensemen that can skate well and don't treat the puck like a grenade on their stick.
GRENADE!!!!  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 12:47 pm : link
RE: The defense looking competent  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13832167 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
without McDonagh does give me some confidence they can trade him without taking that big a step back defensively. This has been a good audition for Skjei getting first pair minutes. Deangelo has impressed and Pionk looks like he could be something.

Hopefully they're now seeing the value of young defensemen that can skate well and don't treat the puck like a grenade on their stick.


Skjei has looked far better playing with the Wolfpack players than he has at any other point this season, IMO.

DeAngelo looks pretty good. Pionk looks good. Gilmour, who I knew nothing about also looks really good. These guys should have been given burn earlier in the year.

McDonagh will be a massive, massive loss, but it looks like the Rangers seem intent on moving on.
Watch McDonagh play like a monster once he's free of AV  
Greg from LI : 2/14/2018 2:20 pm : link
and bad partners
RE: Watch McDonagh play like a monster once he's free of AV  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13832366 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
and bad partners


I was wary of signing him long-term. He has some injuries and will be 30. He'll be a great addition to someone else for the next 1.25 years. AV definitely hurt him the past few years, though. He never gave McD-Shattenkirk a fair chance, nor played Stralman with him back in 2014.

He's constantly bungled the defense, and McDonagh has been crushed because of it.
McDonagh was third in the league in blocked shots  
Kyle in NY : 2/14/2018 2:35 pm : link
before going out injured. And he has not driven the offense well. Not a good combination.

To be fair, an enormous burden has been put on him with the below average partners he's had to play with. AV has really failed him. I could see him being rejuvenated playing getting away from the Rangers and the captaincy. But he's banged up a lot, he likely won't be worth his next contract.

I was on the fence but I now think they should move him. The package they could get for him could be a turning point for the franchise.
I think McDonagh is a great player  
jv : 2/14/2018 2:36 pm : link
but if he's really going to command a bigger salary and more years than what we gave Shattenkirk then I think it's a mistake to sign him to that. His offensive game never developed like we hoped it would. I think for a defender to command big $'s like that they have to be a weapon in the offensive zone. McDonagh is not that.

He's also had some hard years. I could see his play really dropping off hard all of a sudden. I agree whoever rents him is going to be happy. Whoever signs him to his next contract will likely regret it.
Build the defense  
Kyle in NY : 2/14/2018 2:44 pm : link
around Skjei and Shattenkirk. Give the young kids like Pionk a real shot, let Deangelo establish hinself, maybe get a good young defenseman in one of these upcoming trades or in the draft. And most importantly bring in a new coaching staff with a completely changed defensive philosophy, willing to work with a young group

It's not an elite unit. But it's more mobile group with good puck moving ability. Less likely to be crushed on the shot chart.
I think we're going to be disappointed with the return we get on McD  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 5:00 pm : link
When i read "franchise changing" return expectations anyway.

His value is pretty low right now - at best you're looking at a Yandle package. 1st Rd (and projected late first rounder at that), DuClair (who was a good prospect we probably overhyped as Rangers fan), and a 2nd rounder.

That's not "franchise changing" right?
Duclair was ranked 17th in the 2015 THN Future Watch.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 5:28 pm : link
McDonagh is more valuable than Yandle. Not matching the Yandle trade would be a disappointment.
Kreider & Buch  
Professor Falken : 2/14/2018 5:33 pm : link
both practiced today. Non-contact. Buch could be back as early as this weekend, Kreider still out indefinitely.
Fine, not franchise changing  
Kyle in NY : 2/14/2018 5:39 pm : link
But McDonagh's reputation around the league still seems to be strong. Also, whereas there's a large supply of wingers available, he is far and away the best defenseman available and if the Rangers cover half the salary, could be had at $2.9MM next season. It could be a strong return that sets that the team up very well

Hope that wording is alright with you
Realized that last line sounds like a smart ass comment  
Kyle in NY : 2/14/2018 5:41 pm : link
but I meant it more tongue in cheek.

Wish we'd just get going with these trades already, tired of speculating.
Haha  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 6:47 pm : link
no offense taken, and i wasnt picking on you, just used it as one example. We all think the world of McD for what he's done here, he wears the C, all that... but that's in the past. Other teams probably look at his recent injury history, some slippage in performance level, and his lack of offensive game.

We can say he'd be better with a real D-pairing all we like - and we're right - but no one's going to pay us full price for what is not proven. That's on AV, who is a fucking clown.

And I'm not sure McDonaugh's value today is better than Yandle's 4 years ago. Back then Yandle, 27-28 at the time, was a 45-60 point player, an ironman as far as TOI and consecutive games played, and a positive Corsi player on horrendous teams. People didnt even know he was available, but was thought to be one of the better D's on the market.

Signed with Florida @ 6.4mm per year when the salary cap was 71mm - equates to McDonaugh signing at 7.2mm/year this year at the projected 80mm cap. Sounds reasonable.

I know they are vastly different player types, but thats the kind of benchmark return i'm thinking about in my head which is basically two late first round picks for him.
RE: Duclair was ranked 17th in the 2015 THN Future Watch.  
MetsAreBack : 2/14/2018 7:02 pm : link
In comment 13832656 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
McDonagh is more valuable than Yandle. Not matching the Yandle trade would be a disappointment.


Should be noted that THN list was:
1) made after the AZ trade
2) he was not on their prospect list at all in 2014
3) he was a late third round pick originally
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/14/2018 7:18 pm : link
This article was written the 4th, he was traded the 2nd.

Duclair was worth more than a late 1st at that point in time.
THN - ( New Window )
Not surprised to see Brett posting at 7:20pm  
MetsAreBack : 2/15/2018 9:40 am : link
on Valentine's Day night. Just sayin'.
Seems like Boston and Tampa  
Kyle in NY : 2/15/2018 10:37 am : link
are the most likely McDoangh destinations. Good spot for us to be in considering the race in that division right now.

Watched the Tampa/Toronto game the other night and Tampa had Girardi on the ice with the empty net down a goal. They need a defenseman.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 10:40 am : link
Well, at least we know we've got a loss coming tonight.
Arc  
MetsAreBack : 2/15/2018 11:47 am : link
watch us beat NYI for the 2nd time in like 6 years tonight now that we have nothing to play for.
I need both teams to win or at least get a point  
pjcas18 : 2/15/2018 11:53 am : link
Canadiens are keeping up their end of the bargain.

FWIW, I read McDonagh will have more value post-season before the draft than at the deadline.

I see the point in that somewhat, but feel like deadline desperation might be > pre-draft roster building.

RE: I need both teams to win or at least get a point  
BrettNYG10 : 2/15/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13833390 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Canadiens are keeping up their end of the bargain.

FWIW, I read McDonagh will have more value post-season before the draft than at the deadline.

I see the point in that somewhat, but feel like deadline desperation might be > pre-draft roster building.


I've never understood that argument for a guy with 1.25 years left. Maybe a young guy with RFA rights, etc.
RE: RE: I need both teams to win or at least get a point  
pjcas18 : 2/15/2018 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13833400 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 13833390 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Canadiens are keeping up their end of the bargain.

FWIW, I read McDonagh will have more value post-season before the draft than at the deadline.

I see the point in that somewhat, but feel like deadline desperation might be > pre-draft roster building.




I've never understood that argument for a guy with 1.25 years left. Maybe a young guy with RFA rights, etc.


I asked a couple beat writers about it and they explained it as:

1. the market for McDonagh and players like him is limited today to contenders.

2. the return you'd want for someone like McDonagh should include young players ready to contribute, but with contenders those players may be counted on down the stretch and the team is not ready to part with them to add McDonagh

3. Salary/contract and this is clearly a distant 3rd, but once buyers and sellers are clearer toward the deadline, you have to deal with NMC's/NTC's (McDonagh has one I believe) and make sure teams match up and then find one willing to take on salary or be willing to keep it yourself. This exists post-season too, but without the same deadline pressure to work through issues and really could lessen the value of the player.

Ty Ronning  
Carl in CT : 2/15/2018 12:27 pm : link
50th goal of the season last night. Um where the hell is he?
RE: Arc  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13833384 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
watch us beat NYI for the 2nd time in like 6 years tonight now that we have nothing to play for.


LOL, yeah - it would be very typical.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 2/15/2018 12:36 pm : link
Thanks, pj. I think the non-contender argument would be more valid this past off-season, but I think you have to be a contender to pay up for McDonagh with only a season left.
RE: .....  
pjcas18 : 2/15/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13833446 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Thanks, pj. I think the non-contender argument would be more valid this past off-season, but I think you have to be a contender to pay up for McDonagh with only a season left.


Maybe, but you can always trade for him with the plans to extend him like MTL did with Drouin. Drouin was an RFA, but it was a risk to acquire him without the contract and instead of a bridge deal, the habs signed him long-term (as much as I hated that trade it would have been a disaster if they only had Drouin for two seasons).

the pool of contenders in May/June is far greater than the pool of contenders in February. Practically every team believes they can win in the upcoming season.
RE: RE: .....  
MetsAreBack : 2/15/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13833453 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13833446 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


Thanks, pj. I think the non-contender argument would be more valid this past off-season, but I think you have to be a contender to pay up for McDonagh with only a season left.



Maybe, but you can always trade for him with the plans to extend him like MTL did with Drouin. Drouin was an RFA, but it was a risk to acquire him without the contract and instead of a bridge deal, the habs signed him long-term (as much as I hated that trade it would have been a disaster if they only had Drouin for two seasons).

the pool of contenders in May/June is far greater than the pool of contenders in February. Practically every team believes they can win in the upcoming season.


Obviously depends if we want a few draft picks (will get higher return now)... or specific young players in return (would get a better return this summer).

Personally I'd rather deal these guys now so we end up with higher lottery odds. And I of course fully expect one of these guys - McD, Nash, Grabs, Zucc, whowever - to hoist a Cup in June and score 12-15 goals in the process. That's how life goes as a fucking Rangers fan.
RE: Ty Ronning  
Professor Falken : 2/15/2018 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13833429 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
50th goal of the season last night. Um where the hell is he?


He also scored #51 last night.
RE: RE: Ty Ronning  
pjcas18 : 2/15/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13833480 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
In comment 13833429 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


50th goal of the season last night. Um where the hell is he?



He also scored #51 last night.


I thought I read he just signed a ELC a few days ago.

He's tiny though, he's like 5' 8" so think Desharnais sized.

doesn't mean he can't be good in the NHL, but I'm personally not a huge fan of smaller players, they need to be elite in at least one area to succeed: speed, stick handling, shooting, toughness, and even then it's no guarantee.
God I hope it's not going to be a Tampa deal  
Greg from LI : 2/15/2018 1:15 pm : link
I would have every expectation that Yzerman will fleece Gorton.
Cody McLeod  
Kyle in NY : 2/15/2018 8:45 pm : link
is one of the worst players I’ve ever seen. I think Tanner Glass is better

Now I recognize he’s a great player to have when you’re trying to tank. But I think the front office brought him in thinking he could help, and that worries me.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 8:48 pm : link
Welp, looks like whether we're tanking, not tanking, somewhere in between.. we can't seem to figure out Jaro fucking Halak or the Isles.

Funny stuff.

Thankfully it's in our best interest to just keep losing at this point. But it's quite amazing.
RE: .  
Rover : 2/15/2018 9:29 pm : link
In comment 13834033 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Welp, looks like whether we're tanking, not tanking, somewhere in between.. we can't seem to figure out Jaro fucking Halak or the Isles.

Funny stuff.

Thankfully it's in our best interest to just keep losing at this point. But it's quite amazing.

Losing consistently to the Isles should be a fixable offense.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/15/2018 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13834055 Rover said:
Quote:
In comment 13834033 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Welp, looks like whether we're tanking, not tanking, somewhere in between.. we can't seem to figure out Jaro fucking Halak or the Isles.

Funny stuff.

Thankfully it's in our best interest to just keep losing at this point. But it's quite amazing.


Losing consistently to the Isles should be a fixable offense.


Well, AV can't seem to figure it out. I believe that's 10 of the last 11 we've now lost to this team.
Terrible...  
Route 9 : 2/15/2018 9:32 pm : link
Haven't watched many games this year but man oh man
Keep on tanking boys  
NYerInMA : 2/15/2018 9:34 pm : link
We'll beat the Isles again some day, after AV is gone most likely.
I don't know  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 8:10 am : link
I fear we are stuck in no mans land - I appreciate the recent tanking but it's going to take some extreme suck to move off this 10th position. I think we can pass Florida - but anyone else is going to take some luck. Chicago Montreal and Edmonton seem to have all embraced the tank too (how the fuck is Chiarelli still employed - he could not have possibly done a worse job. Not possible)
MTL  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 8:28 am : link
hasn't embraced the tank, they're just not very good defensively. In watching most of their games, they almost always outshoot their opponent and out skate them. Just can't score and they give up easy high quality chances. MTL has the 4th worst PDO in the league.

I'm kind of hoping they decide to shelve Shea Weber for the season, though I'm pretty sure they won't do that.

He comes back they could put together a stretch of good play if they can't shed some players at the deadline, they were thin on D coming in to the season, like razor thin, so even with Price playing as bad as he is, a lot of it is on their D - magnified without Weber.

The good news for the Rangers tanking is their PDO is average, so while teams like MTL, EDM, and BUF with awful PDO's may expect some correction, the Rangers are right where they should be.

MTL has a 7.4% shooting % that's ridiculous, Rangers at 9.2% which is almost average.
We have no idea regarding the quality of the shots being taken  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 9:38 am : link
as discussed here so often, shots isnt the greatest statistic. We do know the Rangers have more team speed than MTL, and that manifests itself into higher quality chances.

Both teams suck anyway, end of day. Pretty unbelievable that the best 3 teams in the Atlantic postseason last year - OTT, NYR, MTL - are all battling for Dahlin, or at least a top 5 pick, 9 months later.

Rangers have to go something like 5-17-2 to pick in the top 5. Just too many bad or unmotivated teams out there. Vets on bad teams start making up injuries about now too.
Agreed shots as a stat  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 9:42 am : link
doesn't mean much, but shooting % IMO does.

Right now MTL has the 4th lowest shooting % in the past 11 NHL seasons. That's significant.

I know people hate the phrase puck luck.

I know I do, because I believe to an extent puck luck is created by effort, discipline, positioning, etc. but I do believe stats like shooting % will eventually regress to the norm.

So my point was MTL has some improvement in store and the Rangers don't.

Yes, neither team is a contender this year, but for the Rangers tanking prospects this is a good thing, not a bad one.
One other thing  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 9:44 am : link
if the Rangers can dish Nash off to Nashville (sounds like a headline that writes itself), I'd look to somehow pry away Tolvanen.

He's small-ish, but putting on a clinic in the Olympics at 18 years old.

I like him.

Nashville is reportedly going "all in" this year as they sense their team is a cup contender with a window.

They check all the proverbial boxes (though Brett disagrees on one), strong goalie, strength up the middle (I think they have 5 players can be legit centers) and strong D.

I'm not a big fan of Rinnie, but I don't think he's awful.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/16/2018 9:51 am : link
And he's having a very good year.

Agreed with MAB, Chiarelli sucks. Destroyed that team.
I dont understand  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 9:53 am : link
if shots dont matter as a stat... why would shooting % matter?

You are saying if a team takes 40 shots instead of 30.. who care, because the quality of those 40 could be low.

That would manifest itself in a low shooting %. Yet, now you say the shooting % is a telling stat. To me, over a large sample size, its just a lagging indicator of the quality shots you are taking.

Regardless - there are only 22-25 games left for everybody.... not enough body of work to assume anything normalizes. You are talking about a ~2% difference anyway, which is two goals spread over every 3 games.
I agree with MAB  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 9:55 am : link
too. I'm somewhat surprised Chiarelli has a job, but you need to consider they were a game 7 loss away from the WCF last year, a year before people expected them to contend.

Even though it was probably in spite of not because Chiarelli, hard to fire a GM in that scenario.

I do think he's let go after the season.
RE: I dont understand  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13834358 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
if shots dont matter as a stat... why would shooting % matter?

You are saying if a team takes 40 shots instead of 30.. who care, because the quality of those 40 could be low.

That would manifest itself in a low shooting %. Yet, now you say the shooting % is a telling stat. To me, over a large sample size, its just a lagging indicator of the quality shots you are taking.

Regardless - there are only 22-25 games left for everybody.... not enough body of work to assume anything normalizes. You are talking about a ~2% difference anyway, which is two goals spread over every 3 games.


shooting % matters because over time players/teams average around 10% shooting percent. this is something that's been tracked forever. It peaked in the mid-80's around 14% with the small goalie pads, curved sticks and influx of european players (and the Gretzky era), but has settled around 10% the past 20 years.

so if a team has 40 shots or 20 shots, that 10% should be where teams wind up for their shooting %, or close to it. Obviously quality scoring chances plays a part, but that shooting % is the norm teams usually regress to.

When a team is at 15% most people realize that's not sustainable, just like if a team is at 7.4% (like MTL) that should also be unsustainable.

So then SHOTS  
MetsAreBack : 2/16/2018 10:02 am : link
are a very telling stat for you. Not sure why you originally said otherwise. More shots, more goals since all players and teams will eventually score at 10% (I dont think that point is true, but i'll go with it)
The Larsson for Hall trade was just brutal.  
BrettNYG10 : 2/16/2018 10:08 am : link
As was Reinhard for picks (one of which turned into Barzal). He's done a great job helping the Metro teams.

Both trades were knowingly awful at the time.

And I agree with you on Nash and Nashville. I'm concerned their pieces are too good for a rental, though.
RE: So then SHOTS  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 13834372 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
are a very telling stat for you. Not sure why you originally said otherwise. More shots, more goals since all players and teams will eventually score at 10% (I dont think that point is true, but i'll go with it)


On a game to game basis sure shots are relevant, but shooting % is more meaningful in evaluating a teams prospects going forward.

that was my point.

if a team has a billion shots, with 10% shooting percent the billion shots is irrelevant, I can feeling they're scoring at an appropriate level and would not draw any conclusions about a change in their results.

If they have a billion shots and a 17% shooting percentage I can say that's not sustainable, they won't continue to score at that pace,

If they have a billion shots and a 5% shooting percentage I can feel like that's not sustainable, they won't run into a hot goalie every night and eventually those shots will fall.

maybe not perfect and it doesn't work out exactly that way, but historically the numbers bear that out I believe.

I think it's rare to sustain massive deltas from the norm, especially so at a team level.

It is what PDO is all about (well half of it).
McDonagh  
jv : 2/16/2018 12:52 pm : link
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun notes that right now the Rangers have the top defensemen on the market but if they wait until June to trade McDonagh, other defensemen such as Drew Doughty, Erik Karlsson or Oliver Ekman-Larsson could join the trade market and possibly limit their return. (The Athletic)

He notes that the return for McDonagh is likely to be something similar to what the Rangers paid for Keith Yandle and that Boston and Tampa Bay have the assets that could interest the Rangers. (The Athletic)


Didn't really think about the trade market potentially being loaded with better defensemen than McDonagh at the draft. I feel like we're gonna fuck this one up.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2018 1:30 pm : link
Quote:
Jim Matheson‏ @NHLbyMatty

I'm hearing NYR would want Bruins' rookie Jake DeBrusk included in any deal for Ryan McDonagh. Ironic, since former Oiler GM Sather traded for Jake's dad Louie when he sent Mark Messier to NYR in 1991.
yep  
Greg from LI : 2/16/2018 1:50 pm : link
Bernie Nicholls, Steven Rice, and Louie DeBrusk for Messier.

Another kid of a goon who turned out to be an actual player. Wonder if Link Gaetz has a son.
Lettieri  
Professor Falken : 2/16/2018 2:34 pm : link
sent down. Looks like Buch is back.
Looking like Ottawa will pick up two points on us  
MetsAreBack : 2/17/2018 3:55 pm : link
excellent.

At this point i dont see much reason to dress Nash or Grabner. Why risk getting them hurt?

Hopefully someone overpays for McDonaugh, but Boston is not stupid (anymore - Chiarelli has left)
They seem to have embraced the tank  
redbeard : 2/17/2018 4:53 pm : link
Just don’t know if we will be able to maintain the level of suck required to move into the top 5
Still my favorite rivarly ... absolutely hate the Flyers  
baadbill : 2/18/2018 12:30 pm : link
dating back to the 1970s (don't like to even refer to their nickname back then ... the Assholes I think it is)
Horrible - Rangers coughing up goals every time they score...  
baadbill : 2/18/2018 12:51 pm : link
all season long ... that, and giving up goals starting games (and periods) ... weak shit ... weak mentally - lack of focus ... just horrible
Zucc is too freaking funny ... hooking his stick inside the skates  
baadbill : 2/18/2018 1:06 pm : link
of the Flyer player before the puck is even dropped on the faceoff ... wtf was that? lol
Went to the game with my son  
MetsAreBack : 2/18/2018 7:50 pm : link
At least we got a few goal songs out of it.

Brutal does not begin to describe how Lundqvist looked. I guess AV didn't want to yank him an 8th time this year though
He’s played way too much  
Kyle in NY : 2/18/2018 11:40 pm : link
for a 36 year old goalie. But he did look bad.

This miserable season has finally broken Hank I guess
Rangers This Season  
Percy : 2/19/2018 8:34 am : link
Cooked. Four straight losses. What?? Lundqvist has lost it. No decent backup in goal available either. In general the team looks like it needs serious player turnover before a return to form can be hoped for.
RE: He’s played way too much  
MetsAreBack : 2/19/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13835860 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
for a 36 year old goalie. But he did look bad.

This miserable season has finally broken Hank I guess


Yeah, I agree with this. At this point though, there's zero reason to keep playing him every night. Let's see what some kids can do - and then Pavelec should be back soon too. No reason for Hank to play more than 10 of the final 22 games.

Also, Hank is a borderline HoF and we've been so lucky to have him - but quotes like this are far too common now. What's wrong with just shouldering the burden and stop with the bullshit deflection?

Quote:
“I have to be better,” said Lundqvist, who was far and away the biggest reason the Rangers improved in November and December. “Obviously, there are a lot of mistakes. We’re getting deflections in our own net, they’re getting deflections in our net, odd-man rushes — that’s where we are getting hurt right now. I just have to start with myself, somehow find energy and confidence to play your game. But it’s hard when you give up so many goals to stay confident and make that extra save even to be solid.”
“I have to be better”  
Kyle in NY : 2/19/2018 4:55 pm : link
What am I missing, is he not taking the blame?
...  
MetsAreBack : 2/19/2018 5:02 pm : link
“Obviously, there are a lot of mistakes. We’re getting deflections in our own net, they’re getting deflections in our net, odd-man rushes — that’s where we are getting hurt right now."

He does this a lot... he says "I havent been good lately" ... but then he goes on a long diatribe about how the rest of the team sucks too. This time its odd-man rushes, other times its 'lack of structure' and a litany of other excuses.

He's frustrated - i get it. They should just sit him down.
Borderline HOF?  
Carl in CT : 2/19/2018 5:19 pm : link
He will be top 5 in wins and second all time in goals against and you think he is borderline? I think he is a slam dunk. Also most wins ever non Canadian.
Semantics  
MetsAreBack : 2/19/2018 5:24 pm : link
maybe/probably he is -- I dont think its a Martin Brodeur open/shut case, and only 5 goalies have been inducted into the hockey HoF over the past 25 years. So the bar is pretty high.

CuJo i dont think is in yet, right?
RE: Borderline HOF?  
Percy : 2/20/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13836387 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
He will be top 5 in wins and second all time in goals against and you think he is borderline? I think he is a slam dunk. Also most wins ever non Canadian.

Absolutely agree.
the bloodletting has begun...  
Mike in St. Louis : 2/20/2018 12:23 pm : link
Holden to Boston for a third round pick and a minor leaguer (Rob O'Gara)...
RE: the bloodletting has begun...  
Jay in Toronto : 2/20/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13837076 Mike in St. Louis said:
Quote:
Holden to Boston for a third round pick and a minor leaguer (Rob O'Gara)...


Separate thread on this
Are the Rangers going to win another game this year?  
baadbill : 2/23/2018 7:39 pm : link
.
RE: Are the Rangers going to win another game this year?  
NYerInMA : 2/23/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13840962 baadbill said:
Quote:
.


Hope not. Secures a good draft position and further seals AV's fate.
Yea, I get that ... but this isn't football with only 16 games  
baadbill : 2/23/2018 8:16 pm : link
... I'm still a Rangers fan (much more than I'm a NHL fan) ... and I want to enjoy some of what is left of the season
RE: Yea, I get that ... but this isn't football with only 16 games  
NYerInMA : 2/23/2018 8:45 pm : link
In comment 13840984 baadbill said:
Quote:
... I'm still a Rangers fan (much more than I'm a NHL fan) ... and I want to enjoy some of what is left of the season


True, it's very painful and strange to see them playing meaningless games at this time of year. I just hope that the suffering we're experiencing now pays off in the long run...
RE: RE: Yea, I get that ... but this isn't football with only 16 games  
baadbill : 2/23/2018 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13841000 NYerInMA said:
Quote:
In comment 13840984 baadbill said:


Quote:


... I'm still a Rangers fan (much more than I'm a NHL fan) ... and I want to enjoy some of what is left of the season



True, it's very painful and strange to see them playing meaningless games at this time of year. I just hope that the suffering we're experiencing now pays off in the long run...


One of my favorite things has always been watching rookies develop ... whether that be the Giants or Rangers ... so the next few seasons should be special ... hell of a price to pay this year being a Giants and Rangers fan .... ugh
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