“He was already looked at poorly when it came to stuff like this, but this is just horrible. He can’t be trusted. He has no character,’’ an NFL source told The Post. “This is a major thing.’’
and doesn't have Brady, and doesn't deliver seasons like Belichick did, and gets fired after 2-3 seasons, he'll be lucky to get a job coaching highschool football.
No reason to be devastated. They should be ecstatic. He is a basket case. Better to find that out now than later. They will get a much better coach for the Colts. I like the fact they are looking at Reich and Campbell.
a contract extension with New England and likely a raise. He'll compete for more super bowls and likely get a chance to take over the Pats after BB retires. His kids won't have to move and can stay in the same schools and same home. He's set for life $$$ wise and is going to be fine. It makes a lot of sense for him to stay in NE.
My only issue is him giving his word to Indy and letting Indy build an entire staff on his promise.
Remember Gettleman stressing that Shurmur was an 'adult'? Â
wasn't to the Colts but to the assistant coaches the article says they hired on McDaniels' behalf. I assume those guys cut ties with their previous employers...What do the poor bastards do now?
wasn't to the Colts but to the assistant coaches the article says they hired on McDaniels' behalf. I assume those guys cut ties with their previous employers...What do the poor bastards do now?
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Said it all along, if there’s an easier job in the NFL than being Pats O-co I’d like to know. You have Brady at QB, making all the throws, all the reads and he’s perhaps the greatest field general of all time, plus he’s a film junkie and workout freak and he requires all his players on offense to follow his lead in work habits and workout and nutrional habits. I mean, Brady’s a fucking unbelievable QB on the field but he’s leading that offense in every way possible off the field as well. Then you have Belichick and his extraordinary genius, and Ernie Adams, who might even be smaht’ah than Hoodie, these guys are the among the all time best ever at making game plans and adjustments. And you have specials and defense (almost always) doing their part to put offense in good situations. And you’re up against three perennial losers in the AFC-East year in and year out. I mean, what’s really left for McDaniels to do up there?
Did anyone in Foxborough miss McDaniels when he left for Denver and St Louis? Did McDaniels bring any success at all to either Denver or St Louis? And on top of all these doubts there’s copious evidence and testimony that McDaniels is a grade A interpersonal asshole. My question is why anyone was ever interested in this guy to begin with?
wasn't to the Colts but to the assistant coaches the article says they hired on McDaniels' behalf. I assume those guys cut ties with their previous employers...What do the poor bastards do now?
You are right. His move was shitty. Talk about screwing
with people's career.
Honestly, if he was under agreement in principle with the Giants Â
I don't think Belichick and Kraft go to him to get him to stay.
I agree and the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the fact that the Colts were the whistle-blowers in "deflategate" had anything to do with Kraft and BB sweetening the deal to get him to stay.
someone inside the pats org tipped the giants off to the whole McDaniels/Pats charade before or right after they interviewed him. Pats wanted to screw the colts and colts only. They (Bill and Kraft) wouldn't care screw the flagship.....
jestersdead said:
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Well, that is very generous of the Colts owner if true, however, think about whoever the new Head coach in Indy ends up to be. No, he doesn't get to hire his own staff, he has to inherit someone else's.
It might all work out in Indy, but, after all this I am so glad NYG stayed away from McDaniels.
RE: Honestly, if he was under agreement in principle with the Giants Â
I don't think Belichick and Kraft go to him to get him to stay.
If Kraft and Belichick really wanted him to stay, they'd have gone after him no matter what team. These guys play for keeps. No sentimentality involved in decisions like this no matter how much bawling BB may do about his days in East Rutherford.
wasn't to the Colts but to the assistant coaches the article says they hired on McDaniels' behalf. I assume those guys cut ties with their previous employers...What do the poor bastards do now?
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Didn't the "poor bastards" get contracts when they were hired ? Aren't the Colts stuck with them ?
RE: I also think suceeding BB isn't ideal at all. Â
jestersdead said:
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Well, that is very generous of the Colts owner if true, however, think about whoever the new Head coach in Indy ends up to be. No, he doesn't get to hire his own staff, he has to inherit someone else's.
It might all work out in Indy, but, after all this I am so glad NYG stayed away from McDaniels.
Yeah unless they hire some newbie whois willing to take whatever he gets I dont see this happening.
Its not just the guys that signed their contracts.. Â
there are reportedly coaches who agreed in principal with no signature who are left looking for jobs..
Anyway, I blame the NFL more than anything else. They could have passed the rule to allow coaches to sign in principal before the season ended yet passed it on to the following year.
To me, there is absolutely no downside.
RE: I also think suceeding BB isn't ideal at all. Â
How in God's name do you follow probably the greatest coach of all time? That's an impossible task.
I agree that it's an impossible task.
Like when a long term relationship ends and the two halves seek a "rebound" relationship. McDaniels will be that rebound for NE after BB.
But to McDaniels, that's probably OK. If BB sticks around a few more years and then McDaniels is announced as new HC. Even if he is another failure and ousted after 2-3 years, he will not have had to display his family for 4-6 years.
Perhaps that gets his kids old enough to where a move is more realistic. Or daddy will have made a lot of money at that point and can just sit back and wait on an opportunity or take time off.
I think this is the angle McDaniels is going for, and if it is, it is a win if the Pats wink-winked him as successor.
right or wrong, I think the reason the NFL has a moratorium on hiring coaches from other teams (to a higher position), is to not mess with the integrity of active playoff teams. If it becomes public knowledge that coach X on a playoff contending team is leaving, that can negatively influence how players respond to his leadership.
The rule intends to avoid this interference.
I think the only solution, is to either permit coaches hire at anytime, damn the consequences, or put a complete moratorium on any and all staff hiring until the super bowl is over. Fire em ok, but no hiring until after the big game.
Is karma catching up with "leaving on that midnight semi" Irsay & Colts?
They left Baltimore as one of the classic franchises to become the nowhere Indianapolis colts. Outside of the Peyton years this franchise is a joke.
If there is a football god, colts will (already are) revert to the bottom feeding franchise that Irsay deserves.
Although Mcdaniels is a complete ass for the way he handled this situation, I do agree with his end result. Who would work for Irsay?
and the already hired assistants.
But he did the Colts, and us, a favor by destroying his career.
The Pats feel its their System above all, and you can just interchange parts, without realizing a boatload of things had to fall in place, for a long time already, to have their long run of success.
Nothing lasts forever; key parts will be gone soon; their metrics and analytics standards will be outdated, and it's already showing with their nondescript D that was a concern early in the season being toasted in the SB, and only the end of career rentals like Chris Long last year and Harrison this year will want to gravitate there feeling once the Be are gone, so is the NE aura.
I never liked McDaniels and I think Shurmer was the best guy out there but we shouldn't get too smug as Giant fans about this. If Minnesota had gone to the Super Bowl and if they had made Shurmer an offer he couldn't refuse the same thing could be happening to us.
The lesson is this: Don't go making moves based on who you think your next HC is until he signs on the line which is dotted. The Giants to their credit did not.
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Didn't Peppers say it would be Wilkes? TLG was on Shurmer.
I never liked McDaniels and I think Shurmer was the best guy out there but we shouldn't get too smug as Giant fans about this. If Minnesota had gone to the Super Bowl and if they had made Shurmer an offer he couldn't refuse the same thing could be happening to us.
The lesson is this: Don't go making moves based on who you think your next HC is until he signs on the line which is dotted. The Giants to their credit did not.
I seriously doubt Shurmur would have pulled something like this. You just don't accept a job -- even verbally -- and then back out. No matter what industry you are in that's incredibly bad form. Once you've accepted the job that's it. Negotiating with your current employer should end when you have decided to leave.
I agree that its less likely that anyone negotiates with him during a playoff run, but aside from that what does that have to do with his qualifications or lack of the same to be a Head Coach ? We don't know what was said between him and the Colts or what went through his mind to make him back out.
It is said that he backed out of a commitment, but there was no commitment until there was something in writing. There was nothing in writing because the NFL wouldn't allow it. The last time I changed jobs I required a written job offer before I gave notice at my current job. Wouldn't everybody ? Also, in any other industry its pretty much understood that duties at your current job are winding down or ended once you've accepted a new job. Not so in the NFL. If your team is in the playoffs your current job is at its most important. Who knows what happened in the last couple of weeks ? We know the Patriots sweet talked him. Maybe the Colts did something that spooked him ? Maybe he found out that Luck's injuries are worse than the Colts led him to believe.
This is totally on the Colts. Making moves based on McDaniels coming there before before he was signed was irresponsible . From what we know about Shurmer this was unlikely, but who really knows? Gettleman didn't make any other moves until Shurmer was a Giants employee . That was the right thing to do and its what the Colts should have done.
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Didn't Peppers say it would be Wilkes? TLG was on Shurmer.
I am not going to search the archives, but back when BBI was blowing up the Patricia thread, TLG had quite assuredly stated that Shurmur was the guy. Peppers had confirmed what TLG stated based on Peppers' sources. Peppers might not have been so distinct in his posts, but he still was confirming what TLG stated. Now, earlier than the Patricia thread, Peppers might have been hearing Wilkes. I do not know. But as with these matters, they are fluid.
Not faulting JonC or Eric or any other with the information that they heard. The matter was very fluid. But TLG had stated that Shurmur was the guy all along. It really was a case that BBI dismissed what one person stated and embraced what others were saying. It was a perfect example of confirmation bias in action.
right or wrong, I think the reason the NFL has a moratorium on hiring coaches from other teams (to a higher position), is to not mess with the integrity of active playoff teams. If it becomes public knowledge that coach X on a playoff contending team is leaving, that can negatively influence how players respond to his leadership.
The rule intends to avoid this interference.
I think the only solution, is to either permit coaches hire at anytime, damn the consequences, or put a complete moratorium on any and all staff hiring until the super bowl is over. Fire em ok, but no hiring until after the big game.
Thoughts?
That's an interesting idea, but that then puts all teams who fire their HC at a disadvantage as they enter into offseason/draft planning (and they're already presumably dealing with some level of dysfunction that led to them firing the incumbent).
whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
And the beating I took.. Someone called me Slade at one point lol.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Eric, just out of curiosity... Â
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Didn't Peppers say it would be Wilkes? TLG was on Shurmer.
I am not going to search the archives, but back when BBI was blowing up the Patricia thread, TLG had quite assuredly stated that Shurmur was the guy. Peppers had confirmed what TLG stated based on Peppers' sources. Peppers might not have been so distinct in his posts, but he still was confirming what TLG stated. Now, earlier than the Patricia thread, Peppers might have been hearing Wilkes. I do not know. But as with these matters, they are fluid.
Not faulting JonC or Eric or any other with the information that they heard. The matter was very fluid. But TLG had stated that Shurmur was the guy all along. It really was a case that BBI dismissed what one person stated and embraced what others were saying. It was a perfect example of confirmation bias in action.
I appreciate that Diver.
Just to clarify some things and then I'll leave it as it is. I don't want to keep sounding like "I told you so, I told you so". That's not my intentions at all.
I heard it was down to Wilks and Shurmur. I also heard, and was persistent about it at the time, it was never McDaniels or Patricia. I was told and even said it on here practically verbatim, Patricia to Detroit was as bad as a secret as Shanahan to San Fran.
That's one of the reasons how I know these beats are guessing and that majority of them have no sources. Then it just got pathetic with how they tried to save face..
At the time I said there was only so much slipping through because the 4 men in the room had no reason to talk about their intentions with anyone. Trying to be the voice of reason to get everyone to relax but it really fell on deaf ears. Which I understand the hysteria of that moment.
I didn't hear exactly how it all went down or that they were blown away by Shurmur. TLG heard that, so give credit there. At that time, I heard that it was down to Shurmur and Wilks.
After Shurmur was hired I heard the final decision was made the Friday morning after everyone was interviewed, Mara made the ultimate call and obviously went with Shurmur. I'm pretty sure I never shared any of that.
I also got wind of a few other things after the fact that I thought was interesting. Apparently Rivera did Wilks dirty by changing course and going after his coaches. McDaniels wasn't really well liked around the league even before this mess (a few teams being the exceptions). I did hear the titans were getting rid of malarkey which I believe I may have mentioned.. but non of that really pertains to the Giants.
Thanks for sharing. You’ve been pretty spot on through the process.
I didn’t mean to call you out, but I remember you being high on Wilks. I likely missed your Shurmur input.
No you're right I was. I remember someone asked me if I thought it was going to be Wilks, and I said yea I do. Immediately after I replied I regretted it because at that moment I tied my opinion to what I was hearing and the perception was misleading. Although I was much more clear in other posts.
And I see a lot of people saying "everything's fluid" and even though that can be partially true I'm not going to hide behind that.
whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
are you someone important Jon? Who gives you info? All these beat writers don’t know squat. They all were inaccurate until it was obvious Patricia was going to detroit and mcdaniels To Indy. Willing to bet Gettleman, Mara and Co. said, “let’s all leak a different favorite to the media so Gary, Ian, Dan and Ralph look clueless.
It's implied. If he backed out on the Colts, he probably would have backed out on the Giants.
I don't think this is true. It's possible, but unlikely. People are saying Kraft upped his salary to stick it to the Colts and got him to stay. There is no love loss between the Colts and Kraft/BB
I really don't doubt Kraft & BB wanted to stick it Â
Made a life changing decision we all do it at some points in our lives he only has to look into the mirror for judgement. He is not the first or last man to change his mind no ink on the dotted line so all bets are off. Saban left the Phins dirty move all claimed now how does that move look? He had a contract yet still walked away shit happens everyday in our lives.
RE: I really don't doubt Kraft & BB wanted to stick it Â
whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
are you someone important Jon? Who gives you info? All these beat writers don’t know squat. They all were inaccurate until it was obvious Patricia was going to detroit and mcdaniels To Indy. Willing to bet Gettleman, Mara and Co. said, “let’s all leak a different favorite to the media so Gary, Ian, Dan and Ralph look clueless.
Slow your roll, cowboy. I know a few people in the business, and no, they're not always on target as situations are fluid and often change by the minute.
One of the worst revelations in sports journalism is the advent of guess ya reporting.
Remember, hirings and firings of players, coaches and managers aren't much different in a sports organization than they are at your job. Things change, people have feelings, and people have choices.
Now think of who at your company goes blabbing about things before they're actually decided, and now think of what type of character it takes to go blab that outside of the company.
Two types of people; those with agendas and those who want attention. Not characteristics that scream credibility.
Now factor in every journalist needs a source to play the game of insider. And imagine the descending level of credibility some writers are tapping into.
There are trusted reporters who get scoops. By design they don't play in the cesspool because they have a rep and they get paid more for being credible.
But more than anything go back and think of the type of person who's giving up company secerets to reporters, or their friends or anyone really.
right or wrong, I think the reason the NFL has a moratorium on hiring coaches from other teams (to a higher position), is to not mess with the integrity of active playoff teams. If it becomes public knowledge that coach X on a playoff contending team is leaving, that can negatively influence how players respond to his leadership.
The rule intends to avoid this interference.
I think the only solution, is to either permit coaches hire at anytime, damn the consequences, or put a complete moratorium on any and all staff hiring until the super bowl is over. Fire em ok, but no hiring until after the big game.
Thoughts?
Very good point. My issue with the NFL is that everyone on the planet knows these guys are interviewing for next year. it’s already a distraction, so why keep it half way and potentially screw teams/coaches in the process.
I agree let everyone hire when they want or hold all interviews until after the SB.
Bad info or situation changed?
Bad info or situation changed?
Not McDaniels, Patricia. Looks like it was bad info.
No reason to be devastated. They should be ecstatic. He is a basket case. Better to find that out now than later. They will get a much better coach for the Colts. I like the fact they are looking at Reich and Campbell.
But, he is definitely not a loyal guy. He usually takes
player resentment and focus it at 'management'.
George Young did not dislike BB, he just thought he
did not have the personality to deal with NYC media,
which back in 1991 he didn't.
Both men preach 'team' but in the end are
'what's in it for me guys'.
Parcells screwed the Giants when he resigned after
the draft. I thought the issue was Parcells vs Young.
But, he continued being a jerk in NE.
Josh McDaniels has a boyish demeanor and I guess
a boyish understanding of reality.
My only issue is him giving his word to Indy and letting Indy build an entire staff on his promise.
Agreed that McDaniels lacks this however I believe the Gettleman "Adult" quote was directed at McAdoo.
Not only succeeding a legendary coach, but doing so WITHOUT the legendary QB (who helped make the coach legendary). Yikes.
So far, I'm digging the choice of Shurmur.
Do I win a prize for decoding the secret message?
I was certain it would say, "Stay away from him."
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
Quote:
whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Did anyone in Foxborough miss McDaniels when he left for Denver and St Louis? Did McDaniels bring any success at all to either Denver or St Louis? And on top of all these doubts there’s copious evidence and testimony that McDaniels is a grade A interpersonal asshole. My question is why anyone was ever interested in this guy to begin with?
It's implied. If he backed out on the Colts, he probably would have backed out on the Giants.
You are right. His move was shitty. Talk about screwing
with people's career.
Actually, I think McAdoo is more of an adult than McDaniels.
I agree and the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the fact that the Colts were the whistle-blowers in "deflategate" had anything to do with Kraft and BB sweetening the deal to get him to stay.
You want to believe this...
jestersdead said:
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Well, that is very generous of the Colts owner if true, however, think about whoever the new Head coach in Indy ends up to be. No, he doesn't get to hire his own staff, he has to inherit someone else's.
It might all work out in Indy, but, after all this I am so glad NYG stayed away from McDaniels.
If Kraft and Belichick really wanted him to stay, they'd have gone after him no matter what team. These guys play for keeps. No sentimentality involved in decisions like this no matter how much bawling BB may do about his days in East Rutherford.
Quote:
wasn't to the Colts but to the assistant coaches the article says they hired on McDaniels' behalf. I assume those guys cut ties with their previous employers...What do the poor bastards do now?
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Didn't the "poor bastards" get contracts when they were hired ? Aren't the Colts stuck with them ?
And a new QB after Brady. Yikes!
Quote:
jestersdead said:
I saw an article that said the Colts would keep those already hired on staff
Well, that is very generous of the Colts owner if true, however, think about whoever the new Head coach in Indy ends up to be. No, he doesn't get to hire his own staff, he has to inherit someone else's.
It might all work out in Indy, but, after all this I am so glad NYG stayed away from McDaniels.
Yeah unless they hire some newbie whois willing to take whatever he gets I dont see this happening.
Anyway, I blame the NFL more than anything else. They could have passed the rule to allow coaches to sign in principal before the season ended yet passed it on to the following year.
To me, there is absolutely no downside.
I agree that it's an impossible task.
Like when a long term relationship ends and the two halves seek a "rebound" relationship. McDaniels will be that rebound for NE after BB.
But to McDaniels, that's probably OK. If BB sticks around a few more years and then McDaniels is announced as new HC. Even if he is another failure and ousted after 2-3 years, he will not have had to display his family for 4-6 years.
Perhaps that gets his kids old enough to where a move is more realistic. Or daddy will have made a lot of money at that point and can just sit back and wait on an opportunity or take time off.
I think this is the angle McDaniels is going for, and if it is, it is a win if the Pats wink-winked him as successor.
The rule intends to avoid this interference.
I think the only solution, is to either permit coaches hire at anytime, damn the consequences, or put a complete moratorium on any and all staff hiring until the super bowl is over. Fire em ok, but no hiring until after the big game.
Thoughts?
Link - ( New Window )
They left Baltimore as one of the classic franchises to become the nowhere Indianapolis colts. Outside of the Peyton years this franchise is a joke.
If there is a football god, colts will (already are) revert to the bottom feeding franchise that Irsay deserves.
Although Mcdaniels is a complete ass for the way he handled this situation, I do agree with his end result. Who would work for Irsay?
But he did the Colts, and us, a favor by destroying his career.
The Pats feel its their System above all, and you can just interchange parts, without realizing a boatload of things had to fall in place, for a long time already, to have their long run of success.
Nothing lasts forever; key parts will be gone soon; their metrics and analytics standards will be outdated, and it's already showing with their nondescript D that was a concern early in the season being toasted in the SB, and only the end of career rentals like Chris Long last year and Harrison this year will want to gravitate there feeling once the Be are gone, so is the NE aura.
The lesson is this: Don't go making moves based on who you think your next HC is until he signs on the line which is dotted. The Giants to their credit did not.
Quote:
In comment 13826168 Chris684 said:
Quote:
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Didn't Peppers say it would be Wilkes? TLG was on Shurmer.
The lesson is this: Don't go making moves based on who you think your next HC is until he signs on the line which is dotted. The Giants to their credit did not.
I seriously doubt Shurmur would have pulled something like this. You just don't accept a job -- even verbally -- and then back out. No matter what industry you are in that's incredibly bad form. Once you've accepted the job that's it. Negotiating with your current employer should end when you have decided to leave.
That means BB has what 2-3 years left (if that - who knows what BB is thinking?).
Even if he is the next HC how long will his tenure last with no TB? Did any HC ever last 20 - 25 years at the position?
Doesn't sound like he will get hired by anybody else after this ... but, if he is successful, winning has (promotes) a short memory.
It is said that he backed out of a commitment, but there was no commitment until there was something in writing. There was nothing in writing because the NFL wouldn't allow it. The last time I changed jobs I required a written job offer before I gave notice at my current job. Wouldn't everybody ? Also, in any other industry its pretty much understood that duties at your current job are winding down or ended once you've accepted a new job. Not so in the NFL. If your team is in the playoffs your current job is at its most important. Who knows what happened in the last couple of weeks ? We know the Patriots sweet talked him. Maybe the Colts did something that spooked him ? Maybe he found out that Luck's injuries are worse than the Colts led him to believe.
This is totally on the Colts. Making moves based on McDaniels coming there before before he was signed was irresponsible . From what we know about Shurmer this was unlikely, but who really knows? Gettleman didn't make any other moves until Shurmer was a Giants employee . That was the right thing to do and its what the Colts should have done.
Quote:
In comment 13826231 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13826168 Chris684 said:
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The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Didn't Peppers say it would be Wilkes? TLG was on Shurmer.
I am not going to search the archives, but back when BBI was blowing up the Patricia thread, TLG had quite assuredly stated that Shurmur was the guy. Peppers had confirmed what TLG stated based on Peppers' sources. Peppers might not have been so distinct in his posts, but he still was confirming what TLG stated. Now, earlier than the Patricia thread, Peppers might have been hearing Wilkes. I do not know. But as with these matters, they are fluid.
Not faulting JonC or Eric or any other with the information that they heard. The matter was very fluid. But TLG had stated that Shurmur was the guy all along. It really was a case that BBI dismissed what one person stated and embraced what others were saying. It was a perfect example of confirmation bias in action.
The rule intends to avoid this interference.
I think the only solution, is to either permit coaches hire at anytime, damn the consequences, or put a complete moratorium on any and all staff hiring until the super bowl is over. Fire em ok, but no hiring until after the big game.
Thoughts?
That's an interesting idea, but that then puts all teams who fire their HC at a disadvantage as they enter into offseason/draft planning (and they're already presumably dealing with some level of dysfunction that led to them firing the incumbent).
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In comment 13826168 Chris684 said:
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whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
And the beating I took.. Someone called me Slade at one point lol.
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In comment 13826246 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 13826231 JonC said:
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In comment 13826168 Chris684 said:
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The belief of Shurmur might have been heralded by the beat writers, but there were posters who were consistent in claiming Shurmur was the man all along. Because some on BBI don't hold those posters in high regard, doesn't make them wrong. BBI chooses to latch on to what certain posters say and discredit others. TLG and Peppers was right all along.
Didn't Peppers say it would be Wilkes? TLG was on Shurmer.
I am not going to search the archives, but back when BBI was blowing up the Patricia thread, TLG had quite assuredly stated that Shurmur was the guy. Peppers had confirmed what TLG stated based on Peppers' sources. Peppers might not have been so distinct in his posts, but he still was confirming what TLG stated. Now, earlier than the Patricia thread, Peppers might have been hearing Wilkes. I do not know. But as with these matters, they are fluid.
Not faulting JonC or Eric or any other with the information that they heard. The matter was very fluid. But TLG had stated that Shurmur was the guy all along. It really was a case that BBI dismissed what one person stated and embraced what others were saying. It was a perfect example of confirmation bias in action.
I appreciate that Diver.
Just to clarify some things and then I'll leave it as it is. I don't want to keep sounding like "I told you so, I told you so". That's not my intentions at all.
I heard it was down to Wilks and Shurmur. I also heard, and was persistent about it at the time, it was never McDaniels or Patricia. I was told and even said it on here practically verbatim, Patricia to Detroit was as bad as a secret as Shanahan to San Fran.
That's one of the reasons how I know these beats are guessing and that majority of them have no sources. Then it just got pathetic with how they tried to save face..
At the time I said there was only so much slipping through because the 4 men in the room had no reason to talk about their intentions with anyone. Trying to be the voice of reason to get everyone to relax but it really fell on deaf ears. Which I understand the hysteria of that moment.
I didn't hear exactly how it all went down or that they were blown away by Shurmur. TLG heard that, so give credit there. At that time, I heard that it was down to Shurmur and Wilks.
After Shurmur was hired I heard the final decision was made the Friday morning after everyone was interviewed, Mara made the ultimate call and obviously went with Shurmur. I'm pretty sure I never shared any of that.
I also got wind of a few other things after the fact that I thought was interesting. Apparently Rivera did Wilks dirty by changing course and going after his coaches. McDaniels wasn't really well liked around the league even before this mess (a few teams being the exceptions). I did hear the titans were getting rid of malarkey which I believe I may have mentioned.. but non of that really pertains to the Giants.
I didn’t mean to call you out, but I remember you being high on Wilks. I likely missed your Shurmur input.
I didn’t mean to call you out, but I remember you being high on Wilks. I likely missed your Shurmur input.
No you're right I was. I remember someone asked me if I thought it was going to be Wilks, and I said yea I do. Immediately after I replied I regretted it because at that moment I tied my opinion to what I was hearing and the perception was misleading. Although I was much more clear in other posts.
And I see a lot of people saying "everything's fluid" and even though that can be partially true I'm not going to hide behind that.
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whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
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I must have missed it.
It's implied. If he backed out on the Colts, he probably would have backed out on the Giants.
I don't think this is true. It's possible, but unlikely. People are saying Kraft upped his salary to stick it to the Colts and got him to stay. There is no love loss between the Colts and Kraft/BB
I don't either. This is not an impactful situation.
Kraft seems to be OK, his problems with Parcell
to me, was caused by Parcell.
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In comment 13826168 Chris684 said:
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whatever happened that Sunday where you and a few of the resident asshats were lead to believe it was going to be McDaniels.
Bad info or situation changed?
Multiple beats misread the situation. The belief at that time was Shurmur to AZ was likely, Patricia to DET was done, leaving McD as the next domino to fall to the next team teed up to hire a coach ... NYG. I was given the same info on the same day, later in the evening. It happens.
are you someone important Jon? Who gives you info? All these beat writers don’t know squat. They all were inaccurate until it was obvious Patricia was going to detroit and mcdaniels To Indy. Willing to bet Gettleman, Mara and Co. said, “let’s all leak a different favorite to the media so Gary, Ian, Dan and Ralph look clueless.
Slow your roll, cowboy. I know a few people in the business, and no, they're not always on target as situations are fluid and often change by the minute.
Remember, hirings and firings of players, coaches and managers aren't much different in a sports organization than they are at your job. Things change, people have feelings, and people have choices.
Now think of who at your company goes blabbing about things before they're actually decided, and now think of what type of character it takes to go blab that outside of the company.
Two types of people; those with agendas and those who want attention. Not characteristics that scream credibility.
Now factor in every journalist needs a source to play the game of insider. And imagine the descending level of credibility some writers are tapping into.
There are trusted reporters who get scoops. By design they don't play in the cesspool because they have a rep and they get paid more for being credible.
But more than anything go back and think of the type of person who's giving up company secerets to reporters, or their friends or anyone really.
Agendas or want attention.
The rule intends to avoid this interference.
I think the only solution, is to either permit coaches hire at anytime, damn the consequences, or put a complete moratorium on any and all staff hiring until the super bowl is over. Fire em ok, but no hiring until after the big game.
Thoughts?
Very good point. My issue with the NFL is that everyone on the planet knows these guys are interviewing for next year. it’s already a distraction, so why keep it half way and potentially screw teams/coaches in the process.
I agree let everyone hire when they want or hold all interviews until after the SB.