us. I mean id like to think that we will find a way to get all the kids minutes but i know we wont. I mean Lee can just be a full time SF now. That still gives you minutes for Mudiay/Burke at PG and THJR/Frank at SG, but im sure we will need to get Lance 20 minutes at SF so Lee will cut into the SG minutes. And of course we prolly wont release Jack so he can eat up 20 minutes a night for a team going nowhere.
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
reporters say the knicks got interest in KOQ but did not like the offers. What the hell? Unless the offer was a third round pick you take it. He isnt going to be on the team in a couple months and you get nothing for him.
us. I mean id like to think that we will find a way to get all the kids minutes but i know we wont. I mean Lee can just be a full time SF now. That still gives you minutes for Mudiay/Burke at PG and THJR/Frank at SG, but im sure we will need to get Lance 20 minutes at SF so Lee will cut into the SG minutes. And of course we prolly wont release Jack so he can eat up 20 minutes a night for a team going nowhere.
Hornacek will continue to play the vets unless Perry/Mills
mandate PT for younger guys. Can't believe a playoff team wouldn't want Jacks as a backup PG/KOQ as a backup C/PF/Lee as a SG Would love to know what the offers were! Luckily,Hornacek finds new ways to lose so even w/the vets he'll fuck it up!
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.
Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.
Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!
That's really a question? You leave him home until Hornacek is fired the day after the season ends and then he comes back next year as an expiring contract nailed to the bench unless he has some trade value at some point. A year from today he gets released if he isn't traded. Not really that difficult.
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.
Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
MO,
A guy on reddit did a comprehensive study of the 15 drafts through 2015 and basically found that if you don't have a top 5 pick of the second round the odds are very, very long.
So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!
You miss my point. Having a pick is no assurance that you get a good player. It does offer you the flexobility to grab a guy with interesting skills who fell out of the first. There are guys like those in every draft. Just gotta find them. That's why you pay scouts.
Not sure why you're complaining about having picks. Especially since we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them.
I don't deny that they're long. But it's possible. And outside of unloading real assets (like Frank or KP), or taking on bad contracts, I don't know how else you're going to acquire first round picks.
Mcbuckets/Lee/KOQ aren't/weren't going land those types of picks. I don't care what's bandied about on this board.
Grab what picks you can and draft young players with athleticism. You never know when those picks will come in handy.
So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!
You miss my point. Having a pick is no assurance that you get a good player. It does offer you the flexobility to grab a guy with interesting skills who fell out of the first. There are guys like those in every draft. Just gotta find them. That's why you pay scouts.
Not sure why you're complaining about having picks. Especially since we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them.
No,I didn't miss your point. When you listen to Perry yesterday,he was almost drooling about getting the 2020,2021 #2 picks because the Knicks had traded those years away. Problem is,he traded away a kid who was 23,all rookie team,great contract for those picks. Hornacek has had a hard-on for the kid all year & used the "we have 4 centers"(really it was 3) as an excuse to not play him. Now with KP down & minutes available,Perry trades him for 2 #2's that won't play this year,next year or the following year. And,by next year,Hornacek will only be a bad memory. Second round picks are bought every year at the draft so Perry could have replenished his supply with Dolan's $$$. Willy was part of the future promotions all summer after a nice first season. His complete fall from grace is really unexplainable-I don't believe Hornacek's BS! So I don't agree with your statement "we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them" We gave up a 23 year old who showed potential & with the KP situation,could have improved his stock-either to remain a Knick or increase his trade value. It takes virtually nothing to get a second round pick (Dolan's $$$$),so why give up a young asset?
Draft picks aren't bought and sold all the time. Maybe years ago, that was the case. To buy a pick, you'd have to find a team that's willing to sell it to you.
No we at least now the value of the Knicks vets around the league - zero. Such more for those draft picks for KOQ/ Lee.
Another year, another tankathon to end a season. Knicks have 26 games left. Anything can happen in the NBA, especially in March/April, but I can only see 3 games the Knicks will be favored- home against Dallas, Orlando,Chicago. And even those are iffy. They may be the worst team in the league without KP.
They are 4.5 games out of picking in the top 5. Brooklyn and the Lakers are between them who have zero incentive to tank. I really hope the Knicks play it smart and do everything possible to get a high draft pick. The 4th spot should be the goal- 42% at top 3 and 13.7% at number 1.
Draft picks aren't bought and sold all the time. Maybe years ago, that was the case. To buy a pick, you'd have to find a team that's willing to sell it to you.
Makes sense,can't buy w/o a seller Luckily,there are always teams looking to sell on draft night!
I get that everyone wants to see the young guys play. But sometimes those young guys haven't made the strides to earn playing time. It wasn't like Willy was an unknown. Until about last week, the team still had eyes on making the playoffs. Our star certainly did.
I ask again, apart from dealing Frank/KP to acquire talent and/or firsts, you're going to upgrade the roster how? We aren't the Lakers. Teams aren't falling over themselves to give us young phenoms.
,we need to get to the top five in order to get a guy that moves the needle. We should be there without Porz.
Courtney Lee should have been sold to the highest bidder to ensure that reality, and make time to play Frank, Dot, and Burke more. Now we have Mudiay. I wonder if he's there to be role model for the younger guards.
Jack should really be a player/coach at this point.
The KNicks have had among the worst starting point guards in the league for what seems to be a decade (notwithstanding one good season of Felton under D'Antoni). Otherwise it has been Douglas, Duhon, Calderon, old Kidd, old Baron Davis, rookie SHumpert, Shane Larkin, rookie Jerian Grant, old Jack, and rookie Frank.
This is a guard's league. Mudiay is still really young and was a lottery pick because of his athleticism. Might as well take a flyer on him even if it cost McDermott.
I loved watching Doug play, but he doesn't fit into the team's plan.
Draft picks aren't bought and sold all the time. Maybe years ago, that was the case. To buy a pick, you'd have to find a team that's willing to sell it to you.
Happened last year with Jordan Bell 38th overall. Also 39th pick was sold for cash. 4 2nd round picks were traded for cash last year alone. These are the types of moves the Knicks should be making.
Mudiay's advanced stats have all increased each year (per 36 m, per 100 Poss, PER and WS/48)
He probably won't ever be anything but a backup. But considering McBuckets was a throw-in in the Melo deal, this trade does not really have much downside.
,we need to get to the top five in order to get a guy that moves the needle. We should be there without Porz.
Courtney Lee should have been sold to the highest bidder to ensure that reality, and make time to play Frank, Dot, and Burke more. Now we have Mudiay. I wonder if he's there to be role model for the younger guards.
Jack should really be a player/coach at this point.
Looking at the standings, number five is probably a stretch. More likely to be #8. But maybe they get lucky and get the #1 pick :))))
In comment 13827030 Modus Operandi said:
[quote] I get that everyone wants to see the young guys play. But sometimes those young guys haven't made the strides to earn playing time. It wasn't like Willy was an unknown. Until about last week, the team still had eyes on making the playoffs. Our star certainly did.
I ask again, apart from dealing Frank/KP to acquire talent and/or firsts, you're going to upgrade the roster how? We aren't the Lakers. Teams aren't falling over themselves to give us young phenoms.
[/quote
We seem to be on different pages I don't disagree that second round draft picks give us a chance to improve, even though the chance is small. The Willy situation was handled very strangely & the explanations for his lack of PT even stranger. Today,Alan Hahn (who sadly has become a lackey for management) said that there were issues w/Willy-he didn't want to go to the G-league & was disrespectful. Every thing we've read & seen about this kid tells us that couldn't be farther from the truth. Seems management saw the negative feedback yesterday & was putting out a narrative to justify the move.Your argument is about using picks to acquire talent & I agree.That's what the Knicks did to acquire Willy! So it's sad when you trade away a 23 year old asset. He may prove he wan't as good as we saw last year-then again he might.I would just have liked the opportunity to see what happens in the last 26 games of the season w/him as a Knick. Maybe this second round pick becomes a player with a future!
Acquiring talent is the key. The Knicks now have two lottery picks from KP's draft and Mudiay is only 21. I can see him and Frankie playing together labels should be irrelevant. It's up to coaching to develop these two into a winning backcourt. Get a potential star SF in the draft. At this point I would have KOQ as my starting C next year (primarily for defense, toughness and rebounding). They're not winning anything with Kanter. He's not athletic enough in today's NBA to win with. This would move the team along towards becoming legitimately contenders.
Beasley is going to go wild here now that he's starting. Knicks will find a way to win games they don't want to win. It's how they roll. Can't blame them but it sucks.
Only way I want to see the Knicks winning is it frank, mudiay or Burke establish themselves as building blocks along the way.
Trade that this whole year should be about the TANK and getting slaty cap friendly
By KP getting hurt(and by no means am I suggesting this is a good thing)that this expedited the TANK and now the Knicks can get a legitimate star in this years lottery rich draft
Hopefully KP will come back healthy and the 2019-20 season can be the start of something big
Kyrie and Kawhi are FAs and with KP healthy and this years lottery and possibly 2019 lottery this team will have lots of talent
Lee and Thomas contract need to come off the books before their last year and Noah can always be stretched to become cap friendly to sign them
Unfortunately us fans need to suffer another two years
Fire Hirnacek and Rambis
He seems to be improving and could improve a lot more. If things work out, he's an asset, and the price to get him was negligible.
Right now the Knicks don't need to worry about having a logjam at point guard, they need to worry about acquiring assets -- about getting more, younger, better guys with potential upside.
Mudiay and Frank can compete with each other, and let the best man win. If they're both good enough they can either play together or one can be traded. Same with Burke.
With the addition of Mudiay and Burke the Knicks now have a collection of talented young guards who seem to be on the upswing. Mudiay and Burke were highly rated prospects when drafted. They're still young. Will that group win a lot of games this season? Probably not. But they provide a base to deal from.
They are doing the right thing keep acquiring athletic talent with potential. If only one of these guys blossoms what a coup that will be. This is a different approach then has been used here for a long time. And Willie was a second rounder for a reason. He scored and rebounded but maybe never showed he can play next to KP.
He's 21 yrs old was asked to run the team at 19. Other than LBJ hoe often does that work out? He's healthy and has improved statistically every year. A more nurturing environment (and learning to play some defense), may be just what the doctor ordered.
If nothing this, this is the most attention paid to the PG situation Â
tank and not get any better? What a terrible product Dolan has allowed the Knicks to become. I know it’s probably all his fault, but still at least the Browns have hope and have a chance at getting better it seems like we are completely cursed. What is the concern level of a guy KP size and build successfully coming back from an ACL? I am not try to infer anything but that I am legitimately asking if there is concern he won’t be able to return to form?
I was one of the guys who wanted Mudiay at 4 over Porzingis. I am happy to admit that I was wrong but I am very happy that the Knicks have at least taken a chance on Mudiay especially for that price. He is still very young and we all know that he is a great athlete. Hopefully a change of scenery and more playing is just what this kid needed.
Now we finally have some pieces to sell and 25 teams are looking to dump guys and its a buyers market.
#knicksluck
KOQ will miss his backdoor pass if Mudiay isn't a cutter lol
I like Jack. Nice vet who's had a nice career. But he's going to be 35 to start next season and is signed only through next season.
I think he's a goner and they'll start the year with Mudiay, Frank and Burke.
Dotson,Baker
Hornacek will continue to play the vets unless Perry/Mills
mandate PT for younger guys. Can't believe a playoff team wouldn't want Jacks as a backup PG/KOQ as a backup C/PF/Lee as a SG Would love to know what the offers were! Luckily,Hornacek finds new ways to lose so even w/the vets he'll fuck it up!
Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.
Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
Quote:
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.
Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!
Quote:
Knicks traded 2 guys they should have kept(although McBuckets for Mudiay is intriguing) Didn't move any of the guys that needed to be moved But,Perry did get his precious #2 picks
Jokic was a middle second round pick. As were Manu Ginobli, Millsap, Kukoc, M. Gasol, Dragic, P. Beverly, D. Green, Whiteside, etc.
Loading up on 2s, absent the ability or assets to acquire firsts is smart.
MO,
A guy on reddit did a comprehensive study of the 15 drafts through 2015 and basically found that if you don't have a top 5 pick of the second round the odds are very, very long.
You miss my point. Having a pick is no assurance that you get a good player. It does offer you the flexobility to grab a guy with interesting skills who fell out of the first. There are guys like those in every draft. Just gotta find them. That's why you pay scouts.
Not sure why you're complaining about having picks. Especially since we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them.
Mcbuckets/Lee/KOQ aren't/weren't going land those types of picks. I don't care what's bandied about on this board.
Grab what picks you can and draft young players with athleticism. You never know when those picks will come in handy.
Quote:
So you've listed 10 players over how many years who were #2's? It's a crap shoot at best Take all those years of those players & list all the #2's that never amounted to anything!
You miss my point. Having a pick is no assurance that you get a good player. It does offer you the flexobility to grab a guy with interesting skills who fell out of the first. There are guys like those in every draft. Just gotta find them. That's why you pay scouts.
Not sure why you're complaining about having picks. Especially since we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them.
No,I didn't miss your point. When you listen to Perry yesterday,he was almost drooling about getting the 2020,2021 #2 picks because the Knicks had traded those years away. Problem is,he traded away a kid who was 23,all rookie team,great contract for those picks. Hornacek has had a hard-on for the kid all year & used the "we have 4 centers"(really it was 3) as an excuse to not play him. Now with KP down & minutes available,Perry trades him for 2 #2's that won't play this year,next year or the following year. And,by next year,Hornacek will only be a bad memory. Second round picks are bought every year at the draft so Perry could have replenished his supply with Dolan's $$$. Willy was part of the future promotions all summer after a nice first season. His complete fall from grace is really unexplainable-I don't believe Hornacek's BS! So I don't agree with your statement "we're giving up virtually nothing to acquire them" We gave up a 23 year old who showed potential & with the KP situation,could have improved his stock-either to remain a Knick or increase his trade value. It takes virtually nothing to get a second round pick (Dolan's $$$$),so why give up a young asset?
<Maybe...but it's hard to tell when you don't get PT after showing you were pretty good the previous year!
Another year, another tankathon to end a season. Knicks have 26 games left. Anything can happen in the NBA, especially in March/April, but I can only see 3 games the Knicks will be favored- home against Dallas, Orlando,Chicago. And even those are iffy. They may be the worst team in the league without KP.
They are 4.5 games out of picking in the top 5. Brooklyn and the Lakers are between them who have zero incentive to tank. I really hope the Knicks play it smart and do everything possible to get a high draft pick. The 4th spot should be the goal- 42% at top 3 and 13.7% at number 1.
Makes sense,can't buy w/o a seller Luckily,there are always teams looking to sell on draft night!
I ask again, apart from dealing Frank/KP to acquire talent and/or firsts, you're going to upgrade the roster how? We aren't the Lakers. Teams aren't falling over themselves to give us young phenoms.
Courtney Lee should have been sold to the highest bidder to ensure that reality, and make time to play Frank, Dot, and Burke more. Now we have Mudiay. I wonder if he's there to be role model for the younger guards.
Jack should really be a player/coach at this point.
This is a guard's league. Mudiay is still really young and was a lottery pick because of his athleticism. Might as well take a flyer on him even if it cost McDermott.
I loved watching Doug play, but he doesn't fit into the team's plan.
Happened last year with Jordan Bell 38th overall. Also 39th pick was sold for cash. 4 2nd round picks were traded for cash last year alone. These are the types of moves the Knicks should be making.
Mudiay's advanced stats have all increased each year (per 36 m, per 100 Poss, PER and WS/48)
He probably won't ever be anything but a backup. But considering McBuckets was a throw-in in the Melo deal, this trade does not really have much downside.
Courtney Lee should have been sold to the highest bidder to ensure that reality, and make time to play Frank, Dot, and Burke more. Now we have Mudiay. I wonder if he's there to be role model for the younger guards.
Jack should really be a player/coach at this point.
Looking at the standings, number five is probably a stretch. More likely to be #8. But maybe they get lucky and get the #1 pick :))))
[quote] I get that everyone wants to see the young guys play. But sometimes those young guys haven't made the strides to earn playing time. It wasn't like Willy was an unknown. Until about last week, the team still had eyes on making the playoffs. Our star certainly did.
I ask again, apart from dealing Frank/KP to acquire talent and/or firsts, you're going to upgrade the roster how? We aren't the Lakers. Teams aren't falling over themselves to give us young phenoms.
[/quote
We seem to be on different pages I don't disagree that second round draft picks give us a chance to improve, even though the chance is small. The Willy situation was handled very strangely & the explanations for his lack of PT even stranger. Today,Alan Hahn (who sadly has become a lackey for management) said that there were issues w/Willy-he didn't want to go to the G-league & was disrespectful. Every thing we've read & seen about this kid tells us that couldn't be farther from the truth. Seems management saw the negative feedback yesterday & was putting out a narrative to justify the move.Your argument is about using picks to acquire talent & I agree.That's what the Knicks did to acquire Willy! So it's sad when you trade away a 23 year old asset. He may prove he wan't as good as we saw last year-then again he might.I would just have liked the opportunity to see what happens in the last 26 games of the season w/him as a Knick. Maybe this second round pick becomes a player with a future!
Starters:
Frank
THJr
KP
2018 pick
Bench:
Mudiay
Dotson
2018 Bulls 2nd
then plus a 2019 pick that should be rather high, $40 million in cap space, plus whatever they get in a Courtney Lee deal.
The Knicks could realistically have a starting lineup of
Frank
THJr
Reddish
Bagley
KP
with Dotson, Mudiay, a couple of second rounders and the ability to sign a max SG and move THJr to 6th man.
Only way I want to see the Knicks winning is it frank, mudiay or Burke establish themselves as building blocks along the way.
Mudiay - 40.1% FG%, 37.3 3PT%
Alleged "shooting guard", the 71 Million Dollar Man Tim Hardaway - 41.1% FG%, 31.9 3PT%
By KP getting hurt(and by no means am I suggesting this is a good thing)that this expedited the TANK and now the Knicks can get a legitimate star in this years lottery rich draft
Hopefully KP will come back healthy and the 2019-20 season can be the start of something big
Kyrie and Kawhi are FAs and with KP healthy and this years lottery and possibly 2019 lottery this team will have lots of talent
Lee and Thomas contract need to come off the books before their last year and Noah can always be stretched to become cap friendly to sign them
Unfortunately us fans need to suffer another two years
Fire Hirnacek and Rambis
Right now the Knicks don't need to worry about having a logjam at point guard, they need to worry about acquiring assets -- about getting more, younger, better guys with potential upside.
Mudiay and Frank can compete with each other, and let the best man win. If they're both good enough they can either play together or one can be traded. Same with Burke.
With the addition of Mudiay and Burke the Knicks now have a collection of talented young guards who seem to be on the upswing. Mudiay and Burke were highly rated prospects when drafted. They're still young. Will that group win a lot of games this season? Probably not. But they provide a base to deal from.
If all other teams maintain their winning percentage, the Knicks would end up with the 6th worst record in the League.
That would give the Knicks a 21.5% shot at a Top-3 pick and 43.9% chance at the #6 pick.
Just by moving up to 5th, it raises to 29.2% at Top-3 and a 26% shot at the #5 pick.
Moving up to 4th, it raises to 37.8% at Top 3, 9.9% at #4, and 35.1% at #5
Unfortunately the Knicks have a 5-game lead on 4th worst team because this franchise is a fucking disaster and can't do anything right.
I just hope hornacek doesn't fuck this up and play jack 30 minutes a night while mudiay burke and ntlikina sit on the bench...
After tonight jack can not be the starter, it is absolutely pointless
They haven't been tanking. They're this bad without trying to be this bad, lol.