NFT: Movie debate- Rocky 3 vs Rocky 4

IMO,Rocky 3 was much better. Mr.T's character was so much better then Dolph Lundgrens. Maybe if Rocky didn't give that ridiculous speech at the end of the fight in Rocky 4 I would feel different.

From Drago's one liners ('If he dies, he dies') to Sly driving like 150 MPH with 'No Easy Way Out' playing to the Russian crowd & Politburo turning on Drago & rooting for Rocky to Rocky's 'IF I CAN CHANGE, AND YOU CAN CHANGE, EVERYBODY CAN CHANGE! speech...

So absurd on so many levels. In short, I loved it.

Rocky 3 is probably more re watchable IMO. Clubber Lang and Hulk Hogan (Thunder Lips! The Ultimate Man vs. the Ultimate Meatball!) were both awesome.

.

and I always hated Rocky 4.

As an adult 3 really isn't that great of a movie as I remember it and Rocky 4 isn't as bad.

Rocky 4 has to be corniest of all the films though. Rocky isn't even rocky. He's not the dumb figher off the streets. He doesn't suddenly become smarter because he has more money. It is one giant cliche and Rocky overcoming communism is pretty absurd.

From a pure fun stand point, I don't have big problem with either.

was the universal favorite?

The soundtrack is awesome, they squeeze in about 27 montages, James Brown, and Rocky kicks a Russian's ass. Perfect film.

But Rocky IV is more fun simply because of how outlandish it is.

Fun fact - Dolph Lundgren has a master's in chemical engineering and was going for his Ph.D at MIT on a Fulbright scholarship when he decided to leave school and try to be an actor.

I mean, I will watch it when on... but Rocky IV makes III look like Citizen Kane.

OR MANNNN AGAINSSTTTTTT MANNNNNNN?

based on Mike Tyson or was the script just prescient?
Havent seen the movie in years but as I recall he was terrifying.

The ultimate male vs. the ultimate meatball

Rocky III

was the superior movie.

Mr. T as the opponent was so much more entertaining than Drago and the Glasnost ending to Rocky IV was pathetic.

In comment 13827446 oghwga said:

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based on Mike Tyson or was the script just prescient? Havent seen the movie in years but as I recall he was terrifying.

III came out in '82 or '83, way before Iron Mike.

But not by much at all.. but fun movies.. but not very good..

Neither are good movies. I like 3 because I grew up with the movies and it get's points for nostalgia, but it doesn't come completely off the rails like 4 does. Three is where the franchise flipped the switch to being almost a comedy, so bad that it's good, however 4 just takes it to a whole new level. It's the pinnacle of 80s American exceptionalism. Completely over the top, cheesy and absurd. Legitimately 1/3 of the movie's runtime is montages. 29 minutes out of the 91 minutes of the movie are montage. In the last 50 minutes of the movie, 25 minutes is montage. It's more of a music video than a movie. It's amazing.

Rocky 4 had the ultimate workout montage. The soundtrack was great to workout to back in the day. ;)

do we forget the Top Gun-esque race in the sand that ends in the bromance hug in the ocean? psshhh

Scores on IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes, and Metacritic disagree.
R III... 6.7, 63%, 57%
R IV ... 6.8, 39%, 42%

NTTAWWT

In comment 13827455 AcesUp said:

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Neither are good movies. I like 3 because I grew up with the movies and it get's points for nostalgia, but it doesn't come completely off the rails like 4 does. Three is where the franchise flipped the switch to being almost a comedy, so bad that it's good, however 4 just takes it to a whole new level. It's the pinnacle of 80s American exceptionalism. Completely over the top, cheesy and absurd. Legitimately 1/3 of the movie's runtime is montages. 29 minutes out of the 91 minutes of the movie are montage. In the last 50 minutes of the movie, 25 minutes is montage. It's more of a music video than a movie. It's amazing.

Yup... think about the driving scene alone. It's just filler. LOL

Rocky4 had better music video's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH9AB16Crjk
Living In America James Brown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPb7g_BlXQ
No Easy Way Out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL3lJfpenAc
Burning Heart Survivor

is by far the better movie. Rocky IV the better training and fight but 3 is far superior as a movie.

& barely looking @ the road. Classic.

neither. The only Rocky deserving of being called a real film is Rocky 1. That was beautiful. All the other ones are fun with memorable moments and scenes that permeate the culture but none of them are great movies.

Rocky IV has this!

In comment 13827476 Zepp said:

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neither. The only Rocky deserving of being called a real film is Rocky 1. That was beautiful. All the other ones are fun with memorable moments and scenes that permeate the culture but none of them are great movies.

and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

Sometimes, a terrible movie is great or more accurately, entertaining.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the movie yet they keep going back to it.

was the best one.

Is that they keep splicing in his fight with Adrian. You know, the scene in the franchise that we JUST watched 30 seconds earlier! Lol, so ridiculous it's amazing.

Dug this up. Mock 30 for 30.
If Rocky 4 Happened for Real - ( New Window )

Love them both but IV has my vote out of the 2. The soundtrack alone takes it over the top.

1. Great soundtrack. I doubt that I'm the only one who thinks of James Brown's "Living in America" every time they fly into Vegas. The Training montage was great. The fight music itself gave me goosebumps. BTW, 3 didn't even have its own fight theme. They just reused the one from 2.

2. Great opponent. Ivan Drago, to this day is the ultimate sports villain. "If he dies he dies". He only had a few lines but they're all memorable. The only thing I remember about Clubber Lang is that he called Apollo Creed "boy".

3. Shocking unpredictable moment. You didn't expect Apollo Creed to get killed in the ring did you ? I didn't see that coming.

Interesting tidbit: One of the teasers for 4 was a monologue from Ivan Drago. He probably had three times as many lines in the teaser than he did in the actual movie

Its also the movie that made the Hulkster

In comment 13827492 Ron from Ninerland said:

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1. Great soundtrack. I doubt that I'm the only one who thinks of James Brown's "Living in America" every time they fly into Vegas. The Training montage was great. The fight music itself gave me goosebumps. BTW, 3 didn't even have its own fight theme. They just reused the one from 2. 2. Great opponent. Ivan Drago, to this day is the ultimate sports villain. "If he dies he dies". He only had a few lines but they're all memorable. The only thing I remember about Clubber Lang is that he called Apollo Creed "boy". 3. Shocking unpredictable moment. You didn't expect Apollo Creed to get killed in the ring did you ? I didn't see that coming. Interesting tidbit: One of the teasers for 4 was a monologue from Ivan Drago. He probably had three times as many lines in the teaser than he did in the actual movie

You don't remember Lang's classic response to the 'What's your prediction for the fight?'

'PREDICTION? PAIN.'

HE'S A MAN!!!!!

In comment 13827492 Ron from Ninerland said:

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1. Great soundtrack. I doubt that I'm the only one who thinks of James Brown's "Living in America" every time they fly into Vegas. The Training montage was great. The fight music itself gave me goosebumps. BTW, 3 didn't even have its own fight theme. They just reused the one from 2. 2. Great opponent. Ivan Drago, to this day is the ultimate sports villain. "If he dies he dies". He only had a few lines but they're all memorable. The only thing I remember about Clubber Lang is that he called Apollo Creed "boy". 3. Shocking unpredictable moment. You didn't expect Apollo Creed to get killed in the ring did you ? I didn't see that coming. Interesting tidbit: One of the teasers for 4 was a monologue from Ivan Drago. He probably had three times as many lines in the teaser than he did in the actual movie

Rocky 3 is one of the most quotable movies of all time:



My Prediction?


Also launched Hulk Hogans career into another stratosphere.

not even close

"Hey woman? You ever been with a real man?"

That doesn't mean that I can't love the Rocky franchise. Great fun. Underdog story. Good characters. Workout montages. Good fun.

There may not have been Wrestlemania .Mr .T was a huge part of that first mania ..

In comment 13827536 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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There may not have been Wrestlemania .Mr .T was a huge part of that first mania ..

He was a huge part of Wrestlemania because of the movie. If Hulk doesn't do the movie and Mr. T doesn't do Wrestlemania, both probably don't exist.

But 3 introduced the Rocky statue so fuck that movie

Crazy to think that without Rocky 3 having MR T and Hogan in it and without Cyndi Lauper having Capt Lou in her Girls just want to have fun video there would be no wrestlemania ,That’s why I don’t understand why Cyndi Lauper is not in the WWE hall of fame

In comment 13827545 BIG FRED 1973 said:

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Crazy to think that without Rocky 3 having MR T and Hogan in it and without Cyndi Lauper having Capt Lou in her Girls just want to have fun video there would be no wrestlemania ,That’s why I don’t understand why Cyndi Lauper is not in the WWE hall of fame

Though Starcade had been around, so I am sure WWE would have figured something out to compete, but the spectacle that was the original Wrestlemania sure wouldn't have been there.

plays eye of the tiger every time they go on the ice for warm ups at home games.

think about that 10 year old kids, Eye of the Tiger. That song has to be 35 years old or close to it. It's that and Shipping up to Boston, which I hate.

they wouldn't dare play Living in America or Hearts on Fire or even the corny No Easy Way out or the silly training montage people on here seem to love.

Eye of the Tiger is an institution, handing this victory, despite all other arguments for or against, to Rocky III

And it doesn't even matter that Eye of the Tiger is also on the Rocky IV soundtrack.

In comment 13827550 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

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In comment 13827545 BIG FRED 1973 said: Quote: Crazy to think that without Rocky 3 having MR T and Hogan in it and without Cyndi Lauper having Capt Lou in her Girls just want to have fun video there would be no wrestlemania ,That’s why I don’t understand why Cyndi Lauper is not in the WWE hall of fame Though Starcade had been around, so I am sure WWE would have figured something out to compete, but the spectacle that was the original Wrestlemania sure wouldn't have been there.

I still get chills watching that Hogan match vs sheik where he won the belt We didn’t have cable in my area in 1984 so we didn’t get MSG but I remember my dad getting the VHS tape a day or two after it happened and watching it ,they showed the match on both channel 9 shows that next Saturday but I remember being so happy Hogan won and beat the Iron Sheik

But it's really nothing more than a bunch of montages put together with a fantastic soundtrack. It's the most preposterous of all the movies.

HBO or Showtime have been playing the entire collection non-stop over the last month. The most interesting thing about watching Rocky V these days is seeing how much CTE he has and how much they show him dealing with it.

As much as "Eye of the Tiger" is the obvious choice for best pump-up / fight song in perhaps movie history, "No Easy Way Out" is still my favorite to listen to when I work out.

And speaking of "Eye of the Tiger," this is a fascinating background of the use of the song in the movie, per Wikipedia

Quote:

Eye of the Tiger" ... was also the theme song for the film Rocky III, which was released a day before the single. The song was written... at the request of Rocky III star, writer, and director Sylvester Stallone, after Queen denied him permission to use "Another One Bites the Dust", the song Stallone intended as the Rocky III theme.Originally, the song was made for the movie "The Karate Kid" (1984). The director of both Rocky (1976) and "The Karate Kid" planned to use the song for a fighting montage towards the end of the feature. John G. Avildsen opted to using "You're the Best" by Joe Esposito.

While I think 3 is the better movie - I will admit that 3 isn't as good as I remembered it; and 4 isn't as bad as I remembered it.

All in all, I don't like what happened to the Rocky character after Rocky II. Totally different character.

As a side note - rumor has it they were going to bring Clubber Lang back for Rocky 6 (aka Rocky Balboa) for a cameo during the final fight he has against Mason "the Line" Dixon. That would have been kind of cool for continuity purposes.

As far as Rocky V goes - that was pure shit. Should have never made that movie.

In Westwood many years ago. He was the nicest guy you could imagine, BUT he was wearing more gold chains than fish in the ocean! Ouch!

is my vote.

I'm too young for this but I can imagine the silence in that theater when Apollo died in the beginning. Must have been nuts.

No way, 3 was much better. I thought Clubber Lang was one of the best villains I had seen in any film to that point (and I still think he was a great villain to this day). Rocky 3 is a fun, non-stop, sit-and-watch film.

4 has some good music and training scenes, but the ending is ridiculously cheesey and dumb.

3 by a wide margin.

In comment 13827578 Maximus, Esq. said:

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As a side note - rumor has it they were going to bring Clubber Lang back for Rocky 6 (aka Rocky Balboa) for a cameo during the final fight he has against Mason "the Line" Dixon. That would have been kind of cool for continuity purposes.

Not needed. They had Spider Rico. Can't get any better than that.

First of all, one of the greatest 80s movie soundtracks out there. There's the Cold War backdrop. The Russia scenes are basically one big training montage, but I love it.

And some great lines. It's funny. For whatever reason, I posted on Facebook eight years ago today (Facebook reminded me) Rocky's post-fight speech. Duke's speech to Rocky was great as well. Drago didn't say much, but what little he said was just perfect.

Sure, there was the awkward robot, which got even more awkward once they changed the voice.

"During this fight, I've seen a lot of changing, in the way you feel about me, and in the way I feel about you. In here, there were two guys killing each other, but I guess that's better than twenty million. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!"

"Apollo was like my son. I raised him. And when he died a part of me died. But now you're the one. You're the one that's gonna keep his spirit alive. You're the one that's gonna make sure that he didn't die for nothing. Now you're gonna have to go through hell. Worse than any nightmare you ever dreamed. But in the end, I know you'll be the one standing. You know what you have to do. Do it. Do it."

"If he dies, he dies."

In comment 13827595 Rocky369 said:

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In comment 13827578 Maximus, Esq. said: Quote: As a side note - rumor has it they were going to bring Clubber Lang back for Rocky 6 (aka Rocky Balboa) for a cameo during the final fight he has against Mason "the Line" Dixon. That would have been kind of cool for continuity purposes. Not needed. They had Spider Rico. Can't get any better than that.

True. I believe Lang was going to be a color commentator for the final fight.

In comment 13827609 Maximus, Esq. said:

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In comment 13827595 Rocky369 said: Quote: In comment 13827578 Maximus, Esq. said: Quote: As a side note - rumor has it they were going to bring Clubber Lang back for Rocky 6 (aka Rocky Balboa) for a cameo during the final fight he has against Mason "the Line" Dixon. That would have been kind of cool for continuity purposes. Not needed. They had Spider Rico. Can't get any better than that. True. I believe Lang was going to be a color commentator for the final fight.

That would have been amazing. Such a shame. Maybe they do it in the new Creed movie?

to whom? III was clearly better, IV was when Rocky climbed the surfboard and jumped the shark.

In comment 13827620 Section331 said:

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to whom? III was clearly better, IV was when Rocky climbed the surfboard and jumped the shark.

I won't disagree with that, but it was so damn entertaining that, if given the choice, I'm watching IV. Rocky, Rocky II, & Rocky III were much better films no doubt. But IV's absurdity is too classic.

Rocky
Rocky II
Creed
Rocky VI (Rocky Balboa)
Rocky III
Rocky IV
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Mr Magorium's Wonder Emporium
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Rocky V

Has there ever been better casting than Mr. T as Clubber Lang? Hulk Hogan as Thunderlips? Plus you get some Carl Weathers and his team back for some more action. Plus Mickey dies, the most emotionalize moment in the entire series.
Drago was a punk.

In comment 13827624 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I won't disagree with that, but it was so damn entertaining that, if given the choice, I'm watching IV. Rocky, Rocky II, & Rocky III were much better films no doubt. But IV's absurdity is too classic.

It’s absurdity is what makes it borderline unwatchable to me. I prefer the absurdity of Clubber Lang’s character. Terrific casting.

They both came out before I was born. As a kid I liked 4 the best just because of Drago.

"I must break you"
"He's not a human. He's like a piece of iron"

But having seen them later in life I do like III better.

They sorta painted themselves into a corner in R4 with Drago being Russian and unable to speak much English. "Hey woman" will always be superior to "I must break you."

doesn't have a problem with Rocky 5.

Not that I think it's great or anything, but none of the movies are great.

In comment 13827693 BlackLight said:

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doesn't have a problem with Rocky 5. Not that I think it's great or anything, but none of the movies are great.

Sentence one is inaccurate as I do not have a problem with defending a fight over the theft of your son's room.
Sentence two is inaccruate as the second half should never be uttered about this franchise.

But, I would definitely say 4. Storyline was great and the soundtrack for that movie is still probably my favorite!!

rank the 3 opponents i.e. if they were in a round robin tourney

In comment 13827765 Pep22 said:

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rank the 3 opponents i.e. if they were in a round robin tourney

Well, Creed was obviously based on Ali, so you'd have to assume he was a longtime champion considered to be a legendary fighter. He's 1.

Clubber Lang is the dangerous slugger, but he's an unrefined fighter. Kind of an Earnie Shavers type. #2.

Drago....yeah, he looked impressive, but who did he fight? A long-retired Creed and a washed-up Balboa, who beat him? Clearly #3.

2) Tommy Gunn
3) Clubber Lang
4) Drago

trash compared to Rocky 3. he movies are easily ranked 1-5 simply by their release. Rocky THE BEST, followed by Rocky 2, 3, 4, 5.

I would put Rocky Balboa after 3.

weren't even alive when the movies came out, never saw the original runs in the theater as they were released.

I was incredibly disappointed with 4 and thought the training methods were ridiculous and the US versus Russia idea way outdated by then.

Plus, 3 had Mickey's best line of all: "He'll knock you into tomorrow, Rock!!!"

Um, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there, Bob.

I still sometimes run through the high snow with a 6 foot tree trunk on my shoulders to prepare for any fights I may get in.

Stalone more ripped for Rocky 3 or 4? As a kid I always thought it was 3, but as an adult Rocky 4 abs/obliques are just insane. The amounts of steroids he was on was probably not healthy.

Because it had:

NO WAY!



It's funny, too, because he looked like a relatively normal boxer in the first one

From the link:

"...after the third take of taking body blows, I felt a burning in my chest, but ignored it...Later that night I couldn’t breathe very well, and they took me to the emergency room...The next thing I knew I was on a low-altitude flight from Canada to St. John’s Hospital in Santa Monica, and there I resided in intensive care for eight days...He struck me so hard in the chest that my heart slammed against my breastbone and began to swell, so the beating became labored, and without medical attention the heart would’ve continued to swell until it stopped. Many people that have car accidents die like this when the steering wheel slams into their chest. So in a sense I was hit by ‘a streetcar named Drago’
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13827787 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 13827765 Pep22 said: Quote: rank the 3 opponents i.e. if they were in a round robin tourney Well, Creed was obviously based on Ali, so you'd have to assume he was a longtime champion considered to be a legendary fighter. He's 1. Clubber Lang is the dangerous slugger, but he's an unrefined fighter. Kind of an Earnie Shavers type. #2. Drago....yeah, he looked impressive, but who did he fight? A long-retired Creed and a washed-up Balboa, who beat him? Clearly #3.

Great reply !!

but Clubber Lang just disappears into obscurity after losing to some rope a dope crap

In comment 13828001 AnyoneButPhilly said:

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but Clubber Lang just disappears into obscurity after losing to some rope a dope crap

They fought twice already in Rocky III.

In comment 13828001 AnyoneButPhilly said:

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but Clubber Lang just disappears into obscurity after losing to some rope a dope crap

Yeah Lang is the up and coming Boxer in Rocky 3 that is the future of boxing. Then in Rocky 4 he doesn't exist anymore despite him being a better matchup versus Drago than Creed was.

Its legal and not disqualifying to toss your opponent into the corner of the ring WWE style

Despite one opponent clearly getting pummeled and even being set up for punches, the refs won't step in to stop the fight

Don't duck or block too much. Just take one haymaker after another after another. It will just make you angry and more motivated and not knock a human unconscious.

Adrian is the original Debbie Downer: "You can't win!" "Stop the fight!"

An old man is dying in the locker room but the medics were all apparently on a lunch break

Punches miss by a mile (3 is the most fake looking)

In comment 13827489 AcesUp said:

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Dug this up. Mock 30 for 30. If Rocky 4 Happened for Real - ( New Window )

That is the greatest