Makes perfect sense to me. We cannot have everything perfect in one year. It takes time. This is a great move to me. He is solid depth and a good locker room guy. He knows Shurmur. We need the right type of guys on this team. He fits what Gettleman wants. He is a stop gap that gives us another year or so to get younger. And getting younger doesn't mean much if it is the wrong people.
But on the surface, it makes sense to keep Greco around as a backup Guard. Played for Shurmur in Cleveland and could be helpful as the new regime tries to change the locker room. It's worth noting that the OL chemistry (Bobby Hart) was almost as big of a problem as the DB chemistry.
If this is a vet minimum signing then I've got no problem with it. There are enough holes on this offensive line for young talent to come in and take advantage of opportunities.
Makes perfect sense to me. We cannot have everything perfect in one year. It takes time. This is a great move to me. He is solid depth and a good locker room guy. He knows Shurmur. We need the right type of guys on this team. He fits what Gettleman wants. He is a stop gap that gives us another year or so to get younger. And getting younger doesn't mean much if it is the wrong people.
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.
But hell yeah! Great signing!
Have you seen our OL over the past 6 or so years? This is a good depth signing. Nobody is saying you should be doing cartwheels. There is a difference between you originally saying you don't understand it and now saying it is not a great signing.
He's not very good. And he's near the end of the line.
But hell yeah! Great signing!
It's not a great signing, but there's a certain logic in it depending on the contract. If it's a vet minimum (maybe with a very small signing fee) 1 year deal then it's essentially a camp signing of a vet (regardless of how limited he is) who knows the offensive system and has familiarity with the Oline coaching.
If he's somehow gotten a multi year deal then it's far more questionable.
when the Giants focused on rebuilding the OL using veterans as stopgaps to stabilize the line to allow the offense to work and buy more time to bring in younger players. Gettleman came to the Giants as a scout in 1998 and was pro personnel director starting in 1999. The Giants offensive line that started in 1999 was Oben, Petitgout, Brian Williams, Stone, and Gragg.
By 2000, when the Giants went to the Super Bowl, the Giants had reshaped the OL. Only Stone stayed in his spot. Petitgout was moved over to right tackle. And the Giants signed Glenn Parker and Lomas Brown, who started on the left side. Brian Williams unfortunately got hurt and the Giants brought in Dusty Ziegler.
The point is, the Giants used 40% of their line on what you would call "cagey veterans" at the end of their career and squeezed 2 years out of them while they developed some young OL who were undrafted free agents and slotted them in (Seubert, Bober, and Whittle specifically). Guys who in the end were very similar to what Gettleman produced in Norwell years later in Carolina.
Gettleman knows he needs to upgrade the OL and pretty much told everyone as much. Going after Norwell makes sense as an instant splash. But bringing in/back guys like Greco to hold the fort for a year or so while they rebuild the talent below from this draft / UDFA class and next years as well would be very similar to what Gettleman helped do with Brown and Parker 18 years ago.
No doubt we are going to have to spend as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of our OL spots on less than ideal veterans. Why? Because really good OL's don't usually hit free agency, and relatively speaking, we won't have as much cap room as most teams.
So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
I guess I'd just rather give one of the 90 available roster spots to a younger player, even an undrafted one.
You'd change your tune when all the OL are injured and they have to go with a turnstile like Biznowatti or a guy like him. Greco is going to be a reserve. I don't see where it's anything to get hyper over.
No doubt we are going to have to spend as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of our OL spots on less than ideal veterans. Why? Because really good OL's don't usually hit free agency, and relatively speaking, we won't have as much cap room as most teams.
So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
According to Sy's review, he played well in the Skins game. I doubt they are committing anything to him.
The only problem with signing aging veterans as backups occurs when
No doubt we are going to have to spend as much as 1/3 to 1/2 of our OL spots on less than ideal veterans. Why? Because really good OL's don't usually hit free agency, and relatively speaking, we won't have as much cap room as most teams.
So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
Eric,
I agree with you, it is what it is. The Giants are almost forced to overpay for a Norwell to upgrade the talent. And what they are likely figuring out is that an old veteran OL is better than sticking a young fringe project out there to get exposed (Bobby Hart) while they rebuild the talent via the draft and UDFA. Let guys develop first similar to Rich Suebert and go from there instead of throwing OL out there before they are ready and killing the entire offense.
RE: The only problem with signing aging veterans as backups occurs when
Where I really agree with you is where you say, "It is what it is."
But this is the problem that Reese/Ross left us. When you constantly screw up in the draft, you have to overcompensate in free agency. Sometimes it works out (Damon Harrison) but sometimes it really backfires (the two DE contracts are not looking good right now). And then the more you overpay on free agents, the more limited you are moving forward.
Makes little sense to me.
Makes little sense to me.
but last year everyone wanted a 36 year old tackle in Whitworth.
question is.. what is the contract.. how much.. how long.. could be a depth signing only..
Not here. A 33-year old guard who couldn't seriously challenge the group of schlubs we had last year?
Not serving as a cheerleader here for moves that don't make much sense.
Greco is solid as depth.
Other than Flowers being provided another opportunity, perhaps on the right side, I have no idea who is part of the starting OL next season.
John Greco played for both Giants HC Pat Shurmur (2011,12) and Giants OL coach Hal Hunter (2016) in Cleveland.
Makes little sense to me.
Makes perfect sense to me. We cannot have everything perfect in one year. It takes time. This is a great move to me. He is solid depth and a good locker room guy. He knows Shurmur. We need the right type of guys on this team. He fits what Gettleman wants. He is a stop gap that gives us another year or so to get younger. And getting younger doesn't mean much if it is the wrong people.
But on the surface, it makes sense to keep Greco around as a backup Guard. Played for Shurmur in Cleveland and could be helpful as the new regime tries to change the locker room. It's worth noting that the OL chemistry (Bobby Hart) was almost as big of a problem as the DB chemistry.
If this is a vet minimum signing then I've got no problem with it. There are enough holes on this offensive line for young talent to come in and take advantage of opportunities.
Quote:
Re-signing a 33-year old guard?
Makes little sense to me.
Makes perfect sense to me. We cannot have everything perfect in one year. It takes time. This is a great move to me. He is solid depth and a good locker room guy. He knows Shurmur. We need the right type of guys on this team. He fits what Gettleman wants. He is a stop gap that gives us another year or so to get younger. And getting younger doesn't mean much if it is the wrong people.
To quote The JonC, "robbie - on target"
John Greco played for both Giants HC Pat Shurmur (2011,12) and Giants OL coach Hal Hunter (2016) in Cleveland.
Greco might be here to help mentor young players. He no doubt knows what his value is. Could be a good, if unspectacular signing.
So?
But hell yeah! Great signing!
But hell yeah! Great signing!
Have you seen our OL over the past 6 or so years? This is a good depth signing. Nobody is saying you should be doing cartwheels. There is a difference between you originally saying you don't understand it and now saying it is not a great signing.
However, my crystal ball tells me that John Greco is not likely to be part of the solution moving forward. Call me crazy.
Giants Re-Sign Guard John Greco, Cut Linebacker Ishaq Williams - ( New Window )
But hell yeah! Great signing!
It's not a great signing, but there's a certain logic in it depending on the contract. If it's a vet minimum (maybe with a very small signing fee) 1 year deal then it's essentially a camp signing of a vet (regardless of how limited he is) who knows the offensive system and has familiarity with the Oline coaching.
If he's somehow gotten a multi year deal then it's far more questionable.
But hell yeah! Great signing!
If he's not very good and he's near the end of the line, then he'll either get cut in camp or sit on the bench. How is either scenario a bad one?
By 2000, when the Giants went to the Super Bowl, the Giants had reshaped the OL. Only Stone stayed in his spot. Petitgout was moved over to right tackle. And the Giants signed Glenn Parker and Lomas Brown, who started on the left side. Brian Williams unfortunately got hurt and the Giants brought in Dusty Ziegler.
The point is, the Giants used 40% of their line on what you would call "cagey veterans" at the end of their career and squeezed 2 years out of them while they developed some young OL who were undrafted free agents and slotted them in (Seubert, Bober, and Whittle specifically). Guys who in the end were very similar to what Gettleman produced in Norwell years later in Carolina.
Gettleman knows he needs to upgrade the OL and pretty much told everyone as much. Going after Norwell makes sense as an instant splash. But bringing in/back guys like Greco to hold the fort for a year or so while they rebuild the talent below from this draft / UDFA class and next years as well would be very similar to what Gettleman helped do with Brown and Parker 18 years ago.
So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
This signing doesn't mean those aren't still plausible alternatives.
So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
Okay for a game or two until they end up starting for half a season.
So look for 3, 4, maybe 5 veterans on this team that are "meh". But Greco is a player who I thought was considering retirement at one point.
Eric,
I agree with you, it is what it is. The Giants are almost forced to overpay for a Norwell to upgrade the talent. And what they are likely figuring out is that an old veteran OL is better than sticking a young fringe project out there to get exposed (Bobby Hart) while they rebuild the talent via the draft and UDFA. Let guys develop first similar to Rich Suebert and go from there instead of throwing OL out there before they are ready and killing the entire offense.
Okay for a game or two until they end up starting for half a season.
We said that about Lomas Brown and Glenn Parker too.
Hes a hog mollie good signing imo
Quote:
it's got to start somewhere.
Not here. A 33-year old guard who couldn't seriously challenge the group of schlubs we had last year?
Not serving as a cheerleader here for moves that don't make much sense.
Tend to agree. Must be because of his connection to Shurmur. Maybe Jerry is gone.
Minnesota's 2016 oline was a revolving door.
Norwell + 1 premium draft pick totally changes this o-line. But I have a feeling you are going to see a cluster OL draft for NYG.
But this is the problem that Reese/Ross left us. When you constantly screw up in the draft, you have to overcompensate in free agency. Sometimes it works out (Damon Harrison) but sometimes it really backfires (the two DE contracts are not looking good right now). And then the more you overpay on free agents, the more limited you are moving forward.
"It is what it is" is accurate, but what a mess!
(Brown, not Thomas)
Who is losing their mind? So someone doesn't agree with a move and that equates with "losing their mind"? Strange.
The Saints have a really good OL, IMO.
If you put any stock in PFF, he was the highest rated o-lineman on the roster last year.
There's going to be stopgaps, vets who still need to earn a roster spot over young prospects, and plenty of turnover will occur.
But hell yeah! Great signing!
Do you often say Hell yeah! and Great signing! when the Giants add depth players?
Jeeze.