Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Cowherd on why NYG needs to go QB-

Sean : 2/21/2018 1:24 pm
This is a 4-5 minute clip with some good points made. What do you think, BBI?
Link - ( New Window )
Regarding the qb  
bigbb : 2/21/2018 1:27 pm : link
If the Giants front office falls in love with a quarterback they'll take a quarterback. You don't just take a guy because you need a player at that position. I want them to go best player available
Cowshit needs to go.  
Red Dog : 2/21/2018 1:27 pm : link
Anywhere away from here.
It's the right move IF they move/release Eli immediately  
Go Terps : 2/21/2018 1:31 pm : link
If their resolve is to keep Eli it's just a waste of a year of Darnold's (or whomever's) career.

So then, should they also pick a Qb  
Bill L : 2/21/2018 1:33 pm : link
from the #2 spot next year?
from the comments  
ATL_Giants : 2/21/2018 1:35 pm : link
BigBlue75‏
@BriBoy16

Replying to @TheHerd @ColinCowherd
Why not trade down and get more picks? Too many glaring needs. And if Shurmur us such a QB guru, why not let him work his magic on Davis Webb and free up picks for OL and LB (which would actually help stop Wentz)? Or draft Rudolph lower?
Based on a report  
est1986 : 2/21/2018 1:36 pm : link
That ďthe Giants will pass on a QB at #2Ē

That report is, I believe, total ďsmokeĒ... I hope Darnold is still on the board after that first overall pick... if he isnít then and only then will I be OK with them not taking a QB. Barkley is the 2nd best option. Sammy or Saquon still.
Hard to focus on  
Miamijints : 2/21/2018 1:39 pm : link
his opinion when his nose is running like a facet. He dispels his point by saying Shurmur makes good QB's great. If that is the point then he can make Webb good to great also no? Or a later pick like Lauletta? White? Falk?.
Webb  
Dnew15 : 2/21/2018 1:41 pm : link
may not even be good...
RE: Webb  
Go Terps : 2/21/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13838221 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
may not even be good...


The same could be said for any of the quarterbacks in this draft.

Dak Prescott was selected a round later than Webb, and Dallas won 13 games with him as a rookie (we haven't won that many since 1990).

We should be asking ourselves what terms like Dallas, Philly, and Minnesota are doing to succeed offensively despite being thrown into what would traditionally be considered unfavorable quarterback circumstances.

The best case scenario for the Giants is to draft Barkley and have Webb be good.
RE: It's the right move IF they move/release Eli immediately  
UConn4523 : 2/21/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13838206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If their resolve is to keep Eli it's just a waste of a year of Darnold's (or whomever's) career.


It isnít a waste for the Giants. If they feel heís the heir apparent and that they will be good enough to not have a top pick in 2019, you deal with having him sits year. Darnold may not like it but tough shit.
It's a pretty easy answer  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2018 1:55 pm : link
if Giants think one of the QBs available to them at 2 once their pick is up can be a definite franchise pro bowl QB for 10 years, you absolutely cannot pass.

If they are just "eh" to "they might be good" on these QBs...then you roll with Barkley and let Webb develop another year under Shurmur and Shula.
What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
Go Terps : 2/21/2018 1:57 pm : link
But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.
.  
arcarsenal : 2/21/2018 1:59 pm : link
The Giants don't need to do anything.

There is more than one avenue that will work and we're going to have several options here.

We can either continue to commit to Eli for another year or two and focus on putting the best team around him, we can take our next QB now, or we can hope that Webb is the future and go with Eli for another year with the idea that Webb will be the heir apparent (if the coaches believe he has what it takes)

I don't really see a circumstance where I am mad about what we do. We have options.

I could get on board with taking a QB @ 2, I could get on board with taking Barkley, I could get on board with trading down to compile more picks.

We're in a good spot here. No need to force a position.

I think I'd prefer to get the QB here just because we're sitting @ 2nd overall in what should be a really great QB class, but the idea of Barkley and Beckham on the field together is really exciting.

Landing Norwell would be a major help. Even if that's the only major FA signing we make - get that one done.
RE: What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
Sean : 2/21/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13838248 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.


Forget your conception regarding the west coast offense under McAdoo. If Gettleman/Shurmur decided to commit 3 years to Eli & draft Barkley at 2, would that be something you can get on board with?
Consider  
mrvax : 2/21/2018 2:02 pm : link
that if they draft a QB that has only played in a college system, he may need most of or all 2018 to be NFL ready.
RE: .  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 2/21/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13838252 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Giants don't need to do anything.

There is more than one avenue that will work and we're going to have several options here.

We can either continue to commit to Eli for another year or two and focus on putting the best team around him, we can take our next QB now, or we can hope that Webb is the future and go with Eli for another year with the idea that Webb will be the heir apparent (if the coaches believe he has what it takes)

I don't really see a circumstance where I am mad about what we do. We have options.

I could get on board with taking a QB @ 2, I could get on board with taking Barkley, I could get on board with trading down to compile more picks.

We're in a good spot here. No need to force a position.

I think I'd prefer to get the QB here just because we're sitting @ 2nd overall in what should be a really great QB class, but the idea of Barkley and Beckham on the field together is really exciting.

Landing Norwell would be a major help. Even if that's the only major FA signing we make - get that one done.


Exactly how I feel. Let the cards fall where may, we are going to come away with good talent either way. I prefer the next QB, but certainly would understand any of the other scenarios. I'm really hoping Darnold drops to us, but as stated, I'll a fan of whoever we take at 2.
RE: RE: What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
Go Terps : 2/21/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13838253 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13838248 Go Terps said:


Quote:


But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.



Forget your conception regarding the west coast offense under McAdoo. If Gettleman/Shurmur decided to commit 3 years to Eli & draft Barkley at 2, would that be something you can get on board with?


I think we're past the point of committing to Eli any longer than year to year. I'm fine with going into 2018 with Eli and Barkley, definitely.
RE: .  
mrvax : 2/21/2018 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13838252 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

I don't really see a circumstance where I am mad about what we do. We have options.


I be pissed off if they took Nelson at #2 over Barkley.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 2/21/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13838262 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13838252 arcarsenal said:


Quote:



I don't really see a circumstance where I am mad about what we do. We have options.



I be pissed off if they took Nelson at #2 over Barkley.


Yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled with that either - but I don't see it being a realistic option.

If NYG stay @ 2, I have to believe it's one of the QB's or Barkley.
I don't want a QB.  
Motley Two : 2/21/2018 2:27 pm : link
The narrative that you "can't pass on a franchise QB" is annoying. Nobody gets to draft a "franchise QB", you get to draft a prospect with skills, tools, intangibles, demeanor, ect. Then it's up to the organization & coaches to create a franchise QB.

RE: What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
Bill L : 2/21/2018 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13838248 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.
I honestly believe that with modest improvement in the OL (including Norwell) with the generation's best WR, a potential electric pass-catching TE, Shepard and a generational RB who is also a pass-catching threat, that you could take them to the playoffs. Eli could take them to the SB.
He gives way too much credit to Shanahan & Shurmur  
RetroJint : 2/21/2018 3:03 pm : link
who have had their failures , as well as successes , in developing quarterbacks. McNabb & RG3-hardly glowing work by Shanny. Shurmur has been all over the place , like a moth on a lampshade during a hot August night. The Foles inference discounts the installation of Kellyís offense . The Eagles adjusted to Foles by returning to the RPO & ditching Reidís more conventional WCO that they had been running .

Facing Wenz twice a season will be scary, but the Giants D will be playing him, not the Q. Beckham will soon get a big pot of gold. Thatís certainly true. Engram will continue to develop . We will toast that.

If King is correct, it will mean that Gettleman succumbed to the build around -build up scenario. Propping up Eli for another 2 seasons . I hope he doesnít . Might doom him to be a short-timer . There might be other influences on him as well, serving to direct him to that option . If so, there is nothing that the guy can do. I truly feel sorry for him, if thatís the case .
If the Giants pass on a qb at #2  
NYSports1 : 2/21/2018 3:06 pm : link
They will regret it for the next decade. And those of you that think finding a qb is not hard and want a 5 year at most productive back who is the least most important player on offense is the better choice because you are afraid of losing Eli...Will regret it as well when the Giants are missing the playoffs for the bulk of the next decade
All smoke and mirrors  
djstat : 2/21/2018 3:17 pm : link
NYG is taking a QB unless the current regime has seen enough tape of davis webb in practice and think he is legit.
In my opinion  
Dodge : 2/21/2018 3:30 pm : link
I don't think this is smoke and mirrors. I think that the front office has been insane closed lipped and nothing has gotten out.

So all this speculation is just old journalist just using speculation from dried up old sources.
RE: What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
UConn4523 : 2/21/2018 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13838248 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.


If we traded Eli now and drafted Darnold we know just as much about him now as we would next year if Eli stayed. Should we just never draft a QB?
RE: If the Giants pass on a qb at #2  
Motley Two : 2/21/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13838332 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
They will regret it for the next decade. And those of you that think finding a qb is not hard and want a 5 year at most productive back who is the least most important player on offense is the better choice because you are afraid of losing Eli...Will regret it as well when the Giants are missing the playoffs for the bulk of the next decade


What are the like betamax tapes? This the last year they're gonna make any QBs?

My opinion on why I'm not crazy about taking a QB this year at #2 has very little to do with Manning(or Webb).
I simply don't think this team is ready for the investment. You need more than a turkey to have Thanksgiving dinner.

RE: RE: What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
Go Terps : 2/21/2018 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13838370 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13838248 Go Terps said:


Quote:


But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.



If we traded Eli now and drafted Darnold we know just as much about him now as we would next year if Eli stayed. Should we just never draft a QB?


I'm saying better to move on from Eli sooner than later. I'm fine drafting a quarterback. I'm fine going into 2018 with Webb as the starter and Barkley in the backfield, too.
RE: RE: Webb  
twostepgiants : 2/21/2018 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13838228 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13838221 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


may not even be good...



The same could be said for any of the quarterbacks in this draft.

Dak Prescott was selected a round later than Webb, and Dallas won 13 games with him as a rookie (we haven't won that many since 1990).

We should be asking ourselves what terms like Dallas, Philly, and Minnesota are doing to succeed offensively despite being thrown into what would traditionally be considered unfavorable quarterback circumstances.

The best case scenario for the Giants is to draft Barkley and have Webb be good.


The Giants should pattern themselves after the Vikings with zero rings, Dallas with no rings in over 20 years and barely a playoff win and the Eagles who just filled an empty trophy case for first time (with an impossible to replicate Wentz/Foles situation)?

And not after say New England? Pittsburgh? Denver? Indy? GB? NO? Seattle? Baltimore? Or even the Giants themselves? These teams have won 15 SBs in last 17 years??

Only TB has won in this time with a subpar QB situation.
RE: RE: RE: Webb  
Motley Two : 2/21/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13838385 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13838228 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 13838221 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


may not even be good...



The same could be said for any of the quarterbacks in this draft.

Dak Prescott was selected a round later than Webb, and Dallas won 13 games with him as a rookie (we haven't won that many since 1990).

We should be asking ourselves what terms like Dallas, Philly, and Minnesota are doing to succeed offensively despite being thrown into what would traditionally be considered unfavorable quarterback circumstances.

The best case scenario for the Giants is to draft Barkley and have Webb be good.



The Giants should pattern themselves after the Vikings with zero rings, Dallas with no rings in over 20 years and barely a playoff win and the Eagles who just filled an empty trophy case for first time (with an impossible to replicate Wentz/Foles situation)?

And not after say New England? Pittsburgh? Denver? Indy? GB? NO? Seattle? Baltimore? Or even the Giants themselves? These teams have won 15 SBs in last 17 years??

Only TB has won in this time with a subpar QB situation.


You also have to factor in the situation & what the rest of those rosters looked like when those QBs joined those teams. Now compare the Giants roster to those rosters. Big difference.
A strong running game is the least important part of your offense?  
Bill L : 2/21/2018 3:48 pm : link
We'll definitely win with that.
The reports that the Giants will pass on a QB  
NYG07 : 2/21/2018 3:54 pm : link
Is complete smoke IMO. We saw Mara sign off on the benching of Eli this season and give a directive to Reese and company to heavily scout the top QBs coming out this year. Either Darnold or Rosen will be there for the taking. They will not blow this, and they will take a QB.

Even if you are a die hard Eli fan, there is no better position to pick in this draft for the future of this team than QB. This pick is not about 2018, it is about the future.
The reality is that nobody knows what they will do  
Bill L : 2/21/2018 3:56 pm : link
Speaking in absolutes is fool's folly.
not for us to decide  
Rory : 2/21/2018 3:56 pm : link
I remain optimistic the Giants know what they have in Webb and will make the right call.
I'd take anything Cowherd says with a grain of salt  
JOrthman : 2/21/2018 4:14 pm : link
He has been bashing Eli for the last few years, so it might have a lot to do with his opinion on Eli then any of the draft prospects.
Darnold  
NikkiMac : 2/21/2018 5:06 pm : link
Should have stayed in school another year heís a fumbling machine I donít know why but I feel this guy is the Ryan Leaf of this draft I donít know why I feel like that gut feeling I guess I would be much happier with Allen or Rose or Rudolph
Taking a quarterback is a move for the future  
joeinpa : 2/21/2018 6:18 pm : link
It doesn matter if he s ready to play next season, Eli certainly was not his first year. It doesn t matter if the Giants don t have enough pieces to put around a young quarterback, a rebuild begins at that position.

For those that say none of these guys are a sure thing and then promote Barkley, he s not a sure thing either, there is no such animal at any position.

I agree with a sentiment shared above. I think some fans against taking a quarterback quarterback don t want to see Eli be Kurt Warner.
Yawn  
JerseyCityJoe : 2/21/2018 6:22 pm : link
The Giants are going QB and everyone knows it.
RE: Regarding the qb  
81_Great_Dane : 2/21/2018 6:37 pm : link
In comment 13838200 bigbb said:
Quote:
If the Giants front office falls in love with a quarterback they'll take a quarterback. You don't just take a guy because you need a player at that position. I want them to go best player available
This.
passing on a QB  
UESBLUE : 2/21/2018 6:42 pm : link
this yr will haunt this franchise for a decade and cost the new regime their jobs.
RE: The reports that the Giants will pass on a QB  
lax counsel : 2/21/2018 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13838399 NYG07 said:
Quote:
Is complete smoke IMO. We saw Mara sign off on the benching of Eli this season and give a directive to Reese and company to heavily scout the top QBs coming out this year. Either Darnold or Rosen will be there for the taking. They will not blow this, and they will take a QB.

Even if you are a die hard Eli fan, there is no better position to pick in this draft for the future of this team than QB. This pick is not about 2018, it is about the future.



It's smoke to try to trade up with the Browns for Darnold. It's been said time and again, but ou just rarely win in this league without top qb play. Occasionally you get a brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer or nick foles, but it's very rare.

If the Giants pass on one of the top qbs, you can welcome this franchise right back into the 1970s, because they will be irrelevant until another Eli Manning falls into their laps.

And also, stop with the "end of the franchise qb era" it's not true now, and it's never been true in the sb era. Literally every time there is an outgoing class of great qbs, this is said. When the guys from the 70s retired, it's was the end, when Montana, Aikman, Elway, Marino etc retired, it was he end. But then came the 04 class, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, Brady. And guess what, the next great class is already taking shape- Wentz, Ryan, Goff and most likely the 2018 qb class. Let's grab one of those 2018 qb classes and do one of the rarest things in football- have the qb position set for 25 years straight.
We should never be afraid to gamble on  
Bill L : 2/21/2018 11:18 pm : link
Meh.
People are making this a philosophical debate/question...  
Milton : 2/22/2018 3:20 am : link
...when it's an evaluation question.

If in the Giants analysis there is a QB worthy of the second pick in the draft when they are on the clock, they will take him. That's a point that really shouldn't be debatable.

The question is only whether any of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, etc, are worthy. A team with a young, franchise QB already in place can pass on the QB in that situation and a team with bupkis at QB can reach for a QB in that situation, but the Giants are in neither situation. So we can be confident that if the Giants do select a QB with the second overall pick, it will be because they loved the guy.

p.s.--And he doesn't have to be perfect for them to love him. They just have to see a realistic potential for greatness and a plan to help him achieve it.
And it is very likely  
GeoMan999 : 2/22/2018 11:58 am : link
That the Giants will not know for sure what they will do until they are on the clock. At that point they will know for sure who the Browns select and what trade down offers they are getting.

That is of course unless the Browns begin negotiations with the top pick before the draft and the Giants are totally sold on one QB that the Browns will not pick.

I just hate all the false comments that are coming out linked to the Giants which posters here often take seriously.
If  
PaulN : 2/22/2018 12:23 pm : link
There is a franchise QB in this draft you take him, without even a thought. The big question is simple, is there that type of QB in this draft, and if there is, how many, and if he is available, you take him and it's not even debatable for the Giants.

We have an old and declining franchise QB, and even though Eli was never the greatest QB in the league in any season, he was good enough to win us 2 Super bowls, the last guy we had that was a really good QB before Eli was Simms, and he got us 1 3/4.

Sure Hoss won the big playoff games and the Super bowl, but if he did QB all season would he have gotten us through? Would the league have had a book on him enough to make him less effective? Who knows, the point is simple, a franchise QB is the most important position in football by a mile. You start a franchise with that, then you build the team around him.

If you don't have him, then the chances of winning in this league now is about zero. The days of great defenses that can dominate a season are gone, the new rules have seen to that, this debate is really not a debate, people who argue against it are simply not understanding that point given is the franchise QB point.

What we all don't know is if that player exists in this draft. If he don't there is no way you reach, that will kill a franchise also, so we all have to hope the Giants get this decision right, then we will all be happy. If that player doesn't exist then a trade down or drafting Barkley is a very good idea. Even if they were sold on the pass rusher or an offensive lineman, if those players became All Pro players we are all happy. Nobody will be happy if we pass on the QB position and we watch that QB lead a team to Super Bowl wins and league MVBP's, then we lost.
RE: Taking a quarterback is a move for the future  
NikkiMac : 2/22/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13838551 joeinpa said:
Quote:
It doesn matter if he s ready to play next season, Eli certainly was not his first year. It doesn t matter if the Giants don t have enough pieces to put around a young quarterback, a rebuild begins at that position.

For those that say none of these guys are a sure thing and then promote Barkley, he s not a sure thing either, there is no such animal at any position.

I agree with a sentiment shared above. I think some fans against taking a quarterback quarterback don t want to see Eli be Kurt Warner.



Ok but my question is if Eli starts out badly will it be ok now to go to Webb or the draft pick or do we still owe it to Eli to go down swinging I sure hope not but nobody ever seems to give me an answer to this question I donít know why itís only hypothetical.... I happen to think if they can fix the OL that Eli is going to be highly motivated to erase the stain of last season and have a great year but just in case wonder what take everybody has THIS YEAR when it comes to ELI if he plays badly
RE: It's the right move IF they move/release Eli immediately  
Matt M. : 2/22/2018 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13838206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If their resolve is to keep Eli it's just a waste of a year of Darnold's (or whomever's) career.
Disagree. They can draft one of these guys with the expectation of cutting Eli after this season. Spending a year learning under Eli would be a far cry from a waste of time in my estimation. Just like Eli spending half a season learning from Warner wasn't a waste. Gone are the days of a supposed franchise QB sitting 2-3 years and then starting. But, 1 year is still not outside the realm of possibility.
RE: What Darnold likes is irrelevant, I agree  
Matt M. : 2/22/2018 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13838248 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But I think it's fair to ask the question whether we'd actually win more games with Eli than Darnold in 2018. And given that it would suck to enter 2019 knowing as much about Darnold as we do about Webb now.
A lot depends on what the Giants deem as their short term goal. If they estimate their off season moves, primarily with the OL and LB (to a lesser degree) can yield a contender, then there is no doubt Eli is your man, in my view. However, if they are not confident they can be contender this year, then the discussion to start a rookie or Webb hold a lot more water.
From Todd McShay tweet  
T in NJ : 2/23/2018 1:02 pm : link
My son forwarded me this video of a Quenton Nelson block he saw in a Todd McShay tweet:
FIXED Todd McShay Tweet  
T in NJ : 2/23/2018 1:04 pm : link
My son forwarded me this video of a Quenton Nelson block he saw in a Todd McShay tweet:
How about this for awareness?
I'm sorry  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2018 1:10 pm : link
We're paying attention to this blithering idiot because...why, again?
RE: RE: Webb  
LeftHook : 2/23/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13838228 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13838221 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


may not even be good...



The same could be said for any of the quarterbacks in this draft.

Dak Prescott was selected a round later than Webb, and Dallas won 13 games with him as a rookie (we haven't won that many since 1990).

We should be asking ourselves what terms like Dallas, Philly, and Minnesota are doing to succeed offensively despite being thrown into what would traditionally be considered unfavorable quarterback circumstances.

The best case scenario for the Giants is to draft Barkley and have Webb be good.


Prescott, has a great O-line. That may be one of the reasons. Build your line, then get a QB, any rookie QB coming in to our Offense will get killed playing behind this Oline. Fix the Oline, Draft or FA...
Back to the Corner