"With a new coaching staff and some new schemes, the #Giants are moving pieces around: CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is moving to safety, I’m told. He’ll compete with starter Darian Thompson."
of DRC being a poor tackler came from. Of course he's never blown any one up, he doesn't have the size for it, but I can barely recall an instance where he has missed a tackle while on the Giants.
he is not a physical player, and with him having to cover a lot of ground and make more tackles, he might spend more time on the sidelines than on the field......
Darian was all hype.....did nothing that looked like a playmaking FS he was suppose to be.....slow to react, missed some big tackles, and where were the ball hawking skills he was suppose to have? Adams may have played better the year before, but that is not saying much....
As for Cockrell, he is not that good....three int's in the last two garbage games....I would love Butler, but he is going to cost a lot....
As it stands, this defense is in trouble....and once the injuries start, then the crap hits the fan....another gift from Reese.....
Jon - couldn't agree more. Lot's of stuff on both sides isn't reported in the media. The details between the team and players is best left there. You said it best, livelihoods.
We're not far in disagreement fundamentally, I just don't have a problem with the info about DRC that got out.
As for DRC as a tackler, he's never been a fundamentally good, consistent tackler willing to put his nose in there. If you've played the game, it's clear and obvious. He's made a more concerted effort to be a better tackler the past two seasons, at the same time and there have been positive results.
However, not to the extent where you want him playing safety where consistent tackling as the last line of defense are absolutely necessary.
In that light, a slot CB playing approx 60% of snaps with a $6.5M cap hit is worthy candidate of a paycut, for example, when you consider many of the same around the league earn approx half.
Can tackle he just gets hurt if he does it. I have a feeling he could really excel in the FS spot and could become one of the top ball hawks in the league.
be better fit in that 3 safety scheme Giants ran during their SB run?
I wish that we had a Deon Grant type of safety. I know Thompson wasn't great last season but I am not ready to write him off. Last year was essentially his rookie season. I do think they need an upgrade over Adams as a backup but I don't think they should spent a 1st or 2nd round pick on a safety especially if DRC really is moving to FS.
not sure he has the frame to withstand the extra pounding he'll take at safety vs corner. I agree that this is a partial vote of no confidence in Thompson.
Malcolm Butler would scare the crap out of me
Bill L : 9:54 am : link : reply
If your coach is willing to lose a SB just to keep you off the field, there’s probably some gigantic reason why.
It's called Ego......
Butler was on the outs with BB because he would not sign a team friendly deal, and the Pats exercised their option on him......
Methinks Bill did not want Butler having a big SB(like Seattle), to increase his value in the open market.....cut your nose to spite your face? BB is the kind of coach that expects you to follow his instructions without deviation....you don't do that and this happens.....there was some talk, that Butler was watching the QB too much this season looking for opportunities, to enhance his value on his next contract....
A lot of Boston Sport Writers brought up the SB topic immediately, and then it suddenly disappeared....that is the kind of media power BB has...BB wanted to send a message to everyone on this team, that it's his way or else, win/lose/or draw.....and despite the way Butler's replacements played, he stuck to his guns, and his team took the lead in the fourth quarter, playing his way.....but the defense that failed all game up to that point, did not change and they lost.....and Butler's absence was a major contribution to it.....
Even his team mates were stunned, that he didn't play at all, especially when guys went out with injuries......the only player to really speak out also didn't play because of injury, was Hightower, and he probably wasn't afraid BECAUSE HE KNOWS THIS IS HIS LAST SEASON, CONTRACT WISE.....
Butler has always impressed me, because he hustles, is a great tackler, and even when beat, he is right on his man.....
I think he finally gets the big bucks elsewhere this year....
Malcolm Butler would scare the crap out of me
Bill L : 9:54 am : link : reply
If your coach is willing to lose a SB just to keep you off the field, there’s probably some gigantic reason why.
It's called Ego......
Butler was on the outs with BB because he would not sign a team friendly deal, and the Pats exercised their option on him......
Methinks Bill did not want Butler having a big SB(like Seattle), to increase his value in the open market.....cut your nose to spite your face? BB is the kind of coach that expects you to follow his instructions without deviation....you don't do that and this happens.....there was some talk, that Butler was watching the QB too much this season looking for opportunities, to enhance his value on his next contract....
A lot of Boston Sport Writers brought up the SB topic immediately, and then it suddenly disappeared....that is the kind of media power BB has...BB wanted to send a message to everyone on this team, that it's his way or else, win/lose/or draw.....and despite the way Butler's replacements played, he stuck to his guns, and his team took the lead in the fourth quarter, playing his way.....but the defense that failed all game up to that point, did not change and they lost.....and Butler's absence was a major contribution to it.....
Even his team mates were stunned, that he didn't play at all, especially when guys went out with injuries......the only player to really speak out also didn't play because of injury, was Hightower, and he probably wasn't afraid BECAUSE HE KNOWS THIS IS HIS LAST SEASON, CONTRACT WISE.....
Butler has always impressed me, because he hustles, is a great tackler, and even when beat, he is right on his man.....
I think he finally gets the big bucks elsewhere this year....
Jon - couldn't agree more. Lot's of stuff on both sides isn't reported in the media. The details between the team and players is best left there. You said it best, livelihoods.
We're not far in disagreement fundamentally, I just don't have a problem with the info about DRC that got out.
As for DRC as a tackler, he's never been a fundamentally good, consistent tackler willing to put his nose in there. If you've played the game, it's clear and obvious. He's made a more concerted effort to be a better tackler the past two seasons, at the same time and there have been positive results.
However, not to the extent where you want him playing safety where consistent tackling as the last line of defense are absolutely necessary.
I think you're conflating 2 different things about his tackling - yes, he's not the kind of player who is going to "put his nose in there", but he has been consistent. Again, I haven't seen him miss many tackles since arriving in New York (he was terrible with the Eagles) - as long as guys aren't running past him I don't think his technique is relevant.
Jack Rabbit and Apple on the outside.. We need a slot corner and a do-it-all sideline to sideline LB.. We have the NT in Snacks, two good edge guys who are also formidable on the interior in OV and JPP, Tomlinson will fill in nicely at all 3 spots on the interior. This defense is not far off...
Jon - couldn't agree more. Lot's of stuff on both sides isn't reported in the media. The details between the team and players is best left there. You said it best, livelihoods.
We're not far in disagreement fundamentally, I just don't have a problem with the info about DRC that got out.
As for DRC as a tackler, he's never been a fundamentally good, consistent tackler willing to put his nose in there. If you've played the game, it's clear and obvious. He's made a more concerted effort to be a better tackler the past two seasons, at the same time and there have been positive results.
However, not to the extent where you want him playing safety where consistent tackling as the last line of defense are absolutely necessary.
I think you're conflating 2 different things about his tackling - yes, he's not the kind of player who is going to "put his nose in there", but he has been consistent. Again, I haven't seen him miss many tackles since arriving in New York (he was terrible with the Eagles) - as long as guys aren't running past him I don't think his technique is relevant.
I've been clear his tackling was better the last two seasons.
But, playing safety is a different animal. Watch DRC tackle and then watch LC ...
Geezus, some of you guys just don't get it when it comes to DRC.
It kind of is the point. If you expect the FS to tackle as well or nearly as well as LC, you will not find many of those floating around.
Does he tackle as well as Adams or Thompson would be a better question? Or is he as durable.
I get he can be a bit frail and gets dinged up quite a bit. The question is if his speed to coverage on the field is a bigger plus than the likelihood of missing an open field tackle or staying healthy.
Geezus, some of you guys just don't get it when it comes to DRC.
It kind of is the point. If you expect the FS to tackle as well or nearly as well as LC, you will not find many of those floating around.
Does he tackle as well as Adams or Thompson would be a better question? Or is he as durable.
I get he can be a bit frail and gets dinged up quite a bit. The question is if his speed to coverage on the field is a bigger plus than the likelihood of missing an open field tackle or staying healthy.
I was drawing a basic picture that says a FS must be able to tackle well and consistently. His responsibility is no one gets behind him and he draws the last line of defense as a tackler. I'm not confident he can do these things and hold up, it's not a great plan for FS other than create some competition which is ok.
The LC comparison is not the fair one. But the point still Â
remains that at Free Safety, DRC is going to have to come up and support the run at times or nail somebody who breaks thru.
And head-on-head tackles is not his strong-suit at all.
He can grab tackle and go for people's feet or tackle them from behind fairly well, but if he is going to have to line up a medium-sized RB coming into his space and bring him down... it will be interesting.
Geezus, some of you guys just don't get it when it comes to DRC.
It kind of is the point. If you expect the FS to tackle as well or nearly as well as LC, you will not find many of those floating around.
Does he tackle as well as Adams or Thompson would be a better question? Or is he as durable.
I get he can be a bit frail and gets dinged up quite a bit. The question is if his speed to coverage on the field is a bigger plus than the likelihood of missing an open field tackle or staying healthy.
I was drawing a basic picture that says a FS must be able to tackle well and consistently. His responsibility is no one gets behind him and he draws the last line of defense as a tackler. I'm not confident he can do these things and hold up, it's not a great plan for FS other than create some competition which is ok.
Gotcha. I'm sometimes slow. And I think you are correct that staying healthy is the biggest concern. With his speed he is not likely to be beaten deep and not likely to be outrun, but taking a RB head on with a full head of steam is worst case scenario.
DRC center field.. Landon in the box...
est1986 : 3/4/2018 4:04 pm : link : reply
Jack Rabbit and Apple on the outside.. We need a slot corner and a do-it-all sideline to sideline LB.. We have the NT in Snacks, two good edge guys who are also formidable on the interior in OV and JPP, Tomlinson will fill in nicely at all 3 spots on the interior. This defense is not far off...
Are you advocating a 3-4 defense?
We do not have one LB on this roster.....Goodson, can't stay on the field....
JPP got his money.....and plays that way.....OV has been hurt the last two seasons.....only Snacks has played well, the last two seasons.....Tomlinson was a rookie, and played like one.....he has a long way to go.....now who do you have for backups? Basically nothing....
If DRC plays FS, don't expect him to play 16 games......Collins took a step back last year, and his coverage skills were taken advantage of by opposing teams....Jenkins is our best DB.....Apple is a huge question mark.....once again, who are the backups when a DB goes down? Who will be the slot corner if DRC is the FS?
And where is the money to get players for the defense, if you are trying to fix the offense this year?
A few injuries again on defense and this defense is in trouble...
WE have a lot of roster spots to fill, because quite a few of our UFA are just not worth re-signing....There are almost 20 spots.......
So I think the defense is not as sound as you think it is....
How?
I wouldn’t rule our DT after one season though. Good talent/depth to have to compete for a roster spot in camp.
Darian was all hype.....did nothing that looked like a playmaking FS he was suppose to be.....slow to react, missed some big tackles, and where were the ball hawking skills he was suppose to have? Adams may have played better the year before, but that is not saying much....
As for Cockrell, he is not that good....three int's in the last two garbage games....I would love Butler, but he is going to cost a lot....
As it stands, this defense is in trouble....and once the injuries start, then the crap hits the fan....another gift from Reese.....
We're not far in disagreement fundamentally, I just don't have a problem with the info about DRC that got out.
As for DRC as a tackler, he's never been a fundamentally good, consistent tackler willing to put his nose in there. If you've played the game, it's clear and obvious. He's made a more concerted effort to be a better tackler the past two seasons, at the same time and there have been positive results.
However, not to the extent where you want him playing safety where consistent tackling as the last line of defense are absolutely necessary.
Never understood the theory that you get better by letting good players move on. I love that he s staying
In that light, a slot CB playing approx 60% of snaps with a $6.5M cap hit is worthy candidate of a paycut, for example, when you consider many of the same around the league earn approx half.
I wish that we had a Deon Grant type of safety. I know Thompson wasn't great last season but I am not ready to write him off. Last year was essentially his rookie season. I do think they need an upgrade over Adams as a backup but I don't think they should spent a 1st or 2nd round pick on a safety especially if DRC really is moving to FS.
As I've said, Fitzpatrick is fine, but not at #2.
Bill L : 9:54 am : link : reply
If your coach is willing to lose a SB just to keep you off the field, there’s probably some gigantic reason why.
It's called Ego......
Butler was on the outs with BB because he would not sign a team friendly deal, and the Pats exercised their option on him......
Methinks Bill did not want Butler having a big SB(like Seattle), to increase his value in the open market.....cut your nose to spite your face? BB is the kind of coach that expects you to follow his instructions without deviation....you don't do that and this happens.....there was some talk, that Butler was watching the QB too much this season looking for opportunities, to enhance his value on his next contract....
A lot of Boston Sport Writers brought up the SB topic immediately, and then it suddenly disappeared....that is the kind of media power BB has...BB wanted to send a message to everyone on this team, that it's his way or else, win/lose/or draw.....and despite the way Butler's replacements played, he stuck to his guns, and his team took the lead in the fourth quarter, playing his way.....but the defense that failed all game up to that point, did not change and they lost.....and Butler's absence was a major contribution to it.....
Even his team mates were stunned, that he didn't play at all, especially when guys went out with injuries......the only player to really speak out also didn't play because of injury, was Hightower, and he probably wasn't afraid BECAUSE HE KNOWS THIS IS HIS LAST SEASON, CONTRACT WISE.....
Butler has always impressed me, because he hustles, is a great tackler, and even when beat, he is right on his man.....
I think he finally gets the big bucks elsewhere this year....
Bill L : 9:54 am : link : reply
If your coach is willing to lose a SB just to keep you off the field, there’s probably some gigantic reason why.
It's called Ego......
Butler was on the outs with BB because he would not sign a team friendly deal, and the Pats exercised their option on him......
Methinks Bill did not want Butler having a big SB(like Seattle), to increase his value in the open market.....cut your nose to spite your face? BB is the kind of coach that expects you to follow his instructions without deviation....you don't do that and this happens.....there was some talk, that Butler was watching the QB too much this season looking for opportunities, to enhance his value on his next contract....
A lot of Boston Sport Writers brought up the SB topic immediately, and then it suddenly disappeared....that is the kind of media power BB has...BB wanted to send a message to everyone on this team, that it's his way or else, win/lose/or draw.....and despite the way Butler's replacements played, he stuck to his guns, and his team took the lead in the fourth quarter, playing his way.....but the defense that failed all game up to that point, did not change and they lost.....and Butler's absence was a major contribution to it.....
Even his team mates were stunned, that he didn't play at all, especially when guys went out with injuries......the only player to really speak out also didn't play because of injury, was Hightower, and he probably wasn't afraid BECAUSE HE KNOWS THIS IS HIS LAST SEASON, CONTRACT WISE.....
Butler has always impressed me, because he hustles, is a great tackler, and even when beat, he is right on his man.....
I think he finally gets the big bucks elsewhere this year....
Quote:
Jon - couldn't agree more. Lot's of stuff on both sides isn't reported in the media. The details between the team and players is best left there. You said it best, livelihoods.
We're not far in disagreement fundamentally, I just don't have a problem with the info about DRC that got out.
As for DRC as a tackler, he's never been a fundamentally good, consistent tackler willing to put his nose in there. If you've played the game, it's clear and obvious. He's made a more concerted effort to be a better tackler the past two seasons, at the same time and there have been positive results.
However, not to the extent where you want him playing safety where consistent tackling as the last line of defense are absolutely necessary.
I think you're conflating 2 different things about his tackling - yes, he's not the kind of player who is going to "put his nose in there", but he has been consistent. Again, I haven't seen him miss many tackles since arriving in New York (he was terrible with the Eagles) - as long as guys aren't running past him I don't think his technique is relevant.
Quote:
In comment 13849499 christian said:
Quote:
Jon - couldn't agree more. Lot's of stuff on both sides isn't reported in the media. The details between the team and players is best left there. You said it best, livelihoods.
We're not far in disagreement fundamentally, I just don't have a problem with the info about DRC that got out.
As for DRC as a tackler, he's never been a fundamentally good, consistent tackler willing to put his nose in there. If you've played the game, it's clear and obvious. He's made a more concerted effort to be a better tackler the past two seasons, at the same time and there have been positive results.
However, not to the extent where you want him playing safety where consistent tackling as the last line of defense are absolutely necessary.
I think you're conflating 2 different things about his tackling - yes, he's not the kind of player who is going to "put his nose in there", but he has been consistent. Again, I haven't seen him miss many tackles since arriving in New York (he was terrible with the Eagles) - as long as guys aren't running past him I don't think his technique is relevant.
I've been clear his tackling was better the last two seasons.
But, playing safety is a different animal. Watch DRC tackle and then watch LC ...
I've been clear his tackling was better the last two seasons.
But, playing safety is a different animal. Watch DRC tackle and then watch LC ...
JonC, not many NFL players tackle like LC. The man is a LB playing safety. When he hits somebody, they go down hard and fast.
It kind of is the point. If you expect the FS to tackle as well or nearly as well as LC, you will not find many of those floating around.
Does he tackle as well as Adams or Thompson would be a better question? Or is he as durable.
I get he can be a bit frail and gets dinged up quite a bit. The question is if his speed to coverage on the field is a bigger plus than the likelihood of missing an open field tackle or staying healthy.
Quote:
Geezus, some of you guys just don't get it when it comes to DRC.
It kind of is the point. If you expect the FS to tackle as well or nearly as well as LC, you will not find many of those floating around.
Does he tackle as well as Adams or Thompson would be a better question? Or is he as durable.
I get he can be a bit frail and gets dinged up quite a bit. The question is if his speed to coverage on the field is a bigger plus than the likelihood of missing an open field tackle or staying healthy.
I was drawing a basic picture that says a FS must be able to tackle well and consistently. His responsibility is no one gets behind him and he draws the last line of defense as a tackler. I'm not confident he can do these things and hold up, it's not a great plan for FS other than create some competition which is ok.
And head-on-head tackles is not his strong-suit at all.
He can grab tackle and go for people's feet or tackle them from behind fairly well, but if he is going to have to line up a medium-sized RB coming into his space and bring him down... it will be interesting.
Quote:
In comment 13850513 JonC said:
Quote:
Geezus, some of you guys just don't get it when it comes to DRC.
It kind of is the point. If you expect the FS to tackle as well or nearly as well as LC, you will not find many of those floating around.
Does he tackle as well as Adams or Thompson would be a better question? Or is he as durable.
I get he can be a bit frail and gets dinged up quite a bit. The question is if his speed to coverage on the field is a bigger plus than the likelihood of missing an open field tackle or staying healthy.
I was drawing a basic picture that says a FS must be able to tackle well and consistently. His responsibility is no one gets behind him and he draws the last line of defense as a tackler. I'm not confident he can do these things and hold up, it's not a great plan for FS other than create some competition which is ok.
Gotcha. I'm sometimes slow. And I think you are correct that staying healthy is the biggest concern. With his speed he is not likely to be beaten deep and not likely to be outrun, but taking a RB head on with a full head of steam is worst case scenario.
est1986 : 3/4/2018 4:04 pm : link : reply
Jack Rabbit and Apple on the outside.. We need a slot corner and a do-it-all sideline to sideline LB.. We have the NT in Snacks, two good edge guys who are also formidable on the interior in OV and JPP, Tomlinson will fill in nicely at all 3 spots on the interior. This defense is not far off...
Are you advocating a 3-4 defense?
We do not have one LB on this roster.....Goodson, can't stay on the field....
JPP got his money.....and plays that way.....OV has been hurt the last two seasons.....only Snacks has played well, the last two seasons.....Tomlinson was a rookie, and played like one.....he has a long way to go.....now who do you have for backups? Basically nothing....
If DRC plays FS, don't expect him to play 16 games......Collins took a step back last year, and his coverage skills were taken advantage of by opposing teams....Jenkins is our best DB.....Apple is a huge question mark.....once again, who are the backups when a DB goes down? Who will be the slot corner if DRC is the FS?
And where is the money to get players for the defense, if you are trying to fix the offense this year?
A few injuries again on defense and this defense is in trouble...
WE have a lot of roster spots to fill, because quite a few of our UFA are just not worth re-signing....There are almost 20 spots.......
So I think the defense is not as sound as you think it is....