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NFT: Knicks @ Blazers 10 pm

giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 9:45 am
Starting to wonder if they're limiting Burke's minutes to not win games. I think this guy could average 20 and 7 if he played 30+ minutes the rest of the way. At least pump his trade value up if he's not part of the core long term, but as it stands he's probably the best player on the team right now.

The broader tank and playoff races are as tight as ever.

Tank schedule this week:

Tuesday

Mavs hosting Nuggets

Wednsday

Grizz at Bulls
Magic at Lakers
Kings hosting Pelicans

Thursday

Nets @ Hornets

Friday
Knicks @ Bucks
Bulls @ Pistons
Magic @ Kings

Saturday
Suns @ Hornets
Grizz @ Mavs

Sunday
Raptors @ Knicks
Bulls @ Hawks


Knicks are still 3-4 games behind the clump of tankers but after this week they should inch to 2 games back from that pack. Key is next week, Knicks get the Mavs, Hornets and Bulls at MSG, they need to lose at least 2 of those to stay afloat.
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Could they be limiting Burke  
Keith : 3/6/2018 9:47 am : link
because they want to keep him around next season? Am I correct that we don't own his rights?
I cannot see us winning any of those games this week.  
Keith : 3/6/2018 9:48 am : link
Lillard is on another level right now, he should eat us alive.

Can we just forfeit those games next week?
NYK has an option  
Pep22 : 3/6/2018 9:51 am : link
they can exercise to keep Burke. Good to see Perry is doing the basic, intuitive stuff that Phil was incapable or unwilling to do.

I hope they do the same for Troy Williams.
have they even gained any ground  
Enzo : 3/6/2018 9:57 am : link
on the teams behind them since KP got hurt? This is truly an epic tank year.
Yeah Burke's  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 9:59 am : link
on the books for $1M next year lol. Don't see them winning this week either, worried more about next week.
RE: have they even gained any ground  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 13851889 Enzo said:
Quote:
on the teams behind them since KP got hurt? This is truly an epic tank year.


I dont think so, unless they were ahead of charlotte before he went down.

By the same token, the Utah Jazz won 12 straight games and didn't move any spots in the standings during that span.
we could lose  
Enzo : 3/6/2018 10:13 am : link
every single one of our games the rest of the season and still not improve draft position.
The NBA is changing the  
Metnut : 3/6/2018 10:18 am : link
lottery odds/process so that teams outside of the top 3-4 worst have better odds right? Aren't they going to draw for the top 4-5 spots instead of the top 3 also?

Is this in place for the upcoming lottery or sometime in the future?
Knicks are 4 games back of the 4 apot  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 10:19 am : link
2.5 from the bulls, Knicks may not have moved any spots but definitely have gained ground...

Next Week  
Pete44 : 3/6/2018 10:19 am : link
Losses to the Mavs and Bulls are key next week. Hornacek is still killing the tank with playing the vets.

I'm going to the game on Saturday vs Hornets and have to explain why I'm rooting against the Knicks.

When kp went down  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 10:21 am : link
They were 6 back of 8th, and 8 back of the 1 spot I believe
RE: Next Week  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 10:23 am : link
In comment 13851906 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Losses to the Mavs and Bulls are key next week. Hornacek is still killing the tank with playing the vets.

I'm going to the game on Saturday vs Hornets and have to explain why I'm rooting against the Knicks.


Hornacek is the perfect coach for the tank because he is a moron, these vets are not winning shit..

Lee has gone into me mode..

Beasley looks like he is smoking before games...

Kanter looks for his double double in the first half because he knows 2nd half he is not playing...
Let's see how many temper tantrums hornacek has tonight  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 10:23 am : link
..
RE: The NBA is changing the  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 10:29 am : link
In comment 13851903 Metnut said:
Quote:
lottery odds/process so that teams outside of the top 3-4 worst have better odds right? Aren't they going to draw for the top 4-5 spots instead of the top 3 also?

Is this in place for the upcoming lottery or sometime in the future?


It start next year. I don't think it discourages tanking much, if you finish bottom 3 I think you cannot fall out of the top 5 so teams will still be fighting for those spots. And it incentivizes borderline playoff tanks to fall out because they have better chances at the top spots.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 3/6/2018 10:57 am : link
While I am all for the tank and trying to build a championship contender, being a Knicks fan is depressing and really tough.

Since 2001 the 54 win team in 2013 is really the only team that was fun to watch and got you excited for the playoffs. I realize no one wants to root for a team that gets knocked in the 2nd round every year. But the NBA playoffs are really fun to root in and we’ve only gotten that once in 17 years.

Sorry just ranting how the Knicks season seemingly ends every January/February just as the league ramps up for great hoops.
RE: Knicks  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 13851950 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
While I am all for the tank and trying to build a championship contender, being a Knicks fan is depressing and really tough.

Since 2001 the 54 win team in 2013 is really the only team that was fun to watch and got you excited for the playoffs. I realize no one wants to root for a team that gets knocked in the 2nd round every year. But the NBA playoffs are really fun to root in and we’ve only gotten that once in 17 years.

Sorry just ranting how the Knicks season seemingly ends every January/February just as the league ramps up for great hoops.


I think with a real coach and kp healthy Knicks would of made or at least have been fighting for the playoffs this year...

Hardaway injury really hurt because the way he was playing he was taking a lot of pressure off of kp...

I always say this but look at the heat, that team is well coached, they have whiteside and dragic and a bunch of cast offs and they are going to make the playoffs again....their roster is nothing amazing...

Hornacek is a God awful coach, who plays guys he likes rather than based on how they help a team, as soon as you see a coach playing players he likes and doesn't bench them or yell at them when they are playing like crap you know that coach is no good...
Miami  
TyreeHelmet : 3/6/2018 11:26 am : link
Is a great franchise. Great coach, great player development, and they play really hard. And outside of Wade, they haven’t even drafted well. They basically the opposite of the Knicks.
Miami is probably an extreme  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 11:27 am : link
team that's not fairly comparable to the Knicks. Middle of the road role players go to Miami, get in peak shape and see career years. They have 7-8 solid NBA players, the Knicks have like 4 including KP.

That said, I wouldn't trade the Knicks situation for Miami as they have no superstar and don't have a path out of mediocrity as they are capped out and don't have lottery picks.
RE: Miami  
TyreeHelmet : 3/6/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 13851994 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Is a great franchise. Great coach, great player development, and they play really hard. And outside of Wade, they haven’t even drafted well. They basically the opposite of the Knicks.


Bam has been a good pick along with Richardson in the 2nd round. Winslow is looking better but he hasn’t lit the league on fire. But outside of that they have acquired their guys through trades and FA.
RE: Miami  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 13851994 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Is a great franchise. Great coach, great player development, and they play really hard. And outside of Wade, they haven’t even drafted well. They basically the opposite of the Knicks.


But that is my point you get a real coach and things can change...

Knicks need to hit on this coaching hire...


RE: RE: Miami  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13852002 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13851994 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Is a great franchise. Great coach, great player development, and they play really hard. And outside of Wade, they haven’t even drafted well. They basically the opposite of the Knicks.



Bam has been a good pick along with Richardson in the 2nd round. Winslow is looking better but he hasn’t lit the league on fire. But outside of that they have acquired their guys through trades and FA.


Yeah was going to say that. Since Lebron left they haven't had much help in terms of picks. Winslow was their only lottery pick and he sucks., but they made out like bandits with Bam and Richardson. I guess Whiteside was their "lottery pick", basically got a lottery talent in FA. Bosh's injury certainly has hurt too, they haven't had the best luck recently but thats no fault on their management or coaching.
RE: Miami is probably an extreme  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 11:34 am : link
In comment 13851997 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
team that's not fairly comparable to the Knicks. Middle of the road role players go to Miami, get in peak shape and see career years. They have 7-8 solid NBA players, the Knicks have like 4 including KP.

That said, I wouldn't trade the Knicks situation for Miami as they have no superstar and don't have a path out of mediocrity as they are capped out and don't have lottery picks.


That wasn't my point, I wouldn't trade situations either..

My point was you get the right coach and it stabilizes everything..

Nets are a God awful basketball team with subpar talent and no draft pick yet everyone talks glowingly about them because everyone thinks Atkinson is a good coach...
Coach  
Pete44 : 3/6/2018 11:38 am : link
I actually think with Mills/Perry and Dolan's checkbook, this is the best chance to hit on a coach. Phil Jackson and Isiah had huge egos about coaching and wanted somebody that would be their puppet.

I still hold out hope that Jeff Van Gundy will comeback and coach the team.
RE: RE: Miami is probably an extreme  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 13852014 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13851997 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


team that's not fairly comparable to the Knicks. Middle of the road role players go to Miami, get in peak shape and see career years. They have 7-8 solid NBA players, the Knicks have like 4 including KP.

That said, I wouldn't trade the Knicks situation for Miami as they have no superstar and don't have a path out of mediocrity as they are capped out and don't have lottery picks.



That wasn't my point, I wouldn't trade situations either..

My point was you get the right coach and it stabilizes everything..

Nets are a God awful basketball team with subpar talent and no draft pick yet everyone talks glowingly about them because everyone thinks Atkinson is a good coach...


Yeah, I agree completely.
No retreads  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 11:41 am : link
Only retread I would like is probably blatt because he is still young..

One outside of the box coach prospect I would interview, Becky Hammond, she has learned under popovich, she played in New York, I think players around the league would look at it like finally Knicks are not going after expensive retreads..

I mentioned Becky Hammon once, too.  
bceagle05 : 3/6/2018 11:46 am : link
I don't think they'll do it, but she was a star for the New York Liberty and has worked under Pop. Plus, it would be a progressive move that would go over well from a public relations standpoint. Again, I have no expectation of it happening, but talk about a bold hire...
RE: I mentioned Becky Hammon once, too.  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13852039 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I don't think they'll do it, but she was a star for the New York Liberty and has worked under Pop. Plus, it would be a progressive move that would go over well from a public relations standpoint. Again, I have no expectation of it happening, but talk about a bold hire...


It would be very bold, I think if Perry had final call I think there would be a chance, with mills would he really put his job on the line?


Knicks fans already think he is a joke, if it didnt work could he really take the beating?
It is going to end up being  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 11:51 am : link
Jackson or blatt
Hammon  
TyreeHelmet : 3/6/2018 12:08 pm : link
The Knicks cannot hire her. Zero head coaching experience and isn’t even top 3 assistant coaches for the spurs. Here’s who I would target.

Mike Budenholzer( if he’s fired- not giving up picks for him)
Jay Wright
Gregg Marshall
Ettore Messina
Jerry Stackhouse
Brent Barry
Tony Bennett

If Jarret Jack retires I would try to keep him as an assistant.
RE: Hammon  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13852075 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
The Knicks cannot hire her. Zero head coaching experience and isn’t even top 3 assistant coaches for the spurs. Here’s who I would target.

Mike Budenholzer( if he’s fired- not giving up picks for him)
Jay Wright
Gregg Marshall
Ettore Messina
Jerry Stackhouse
Brent Barry
Tony Bennett

If Jarret Jack retires I would try to keep him as an assistant.


Budenholzer and messina agreed..

No college coaches, Stevens is the exception not the rule..

Stackhouse and Barry have no coaching experience so why are they considered and hammond not?
Coaches  
TyreeHelmet : 3/6/2018 12:22 pm : link
Stackhouse has been a very successful G league coach for years now. Also one of the toughest and most respected nba players.

I think Barry is a brilliant basketball mind. Has loads of experience playing for many different teams and now has experience learning around the league through broadcasting. Teams have been interested in him coaching but he’s refused so far.

Messina would be a Home run hire.
Miami is irrelevant on how the NBA is now  
dep026 : 3/6/2018 12:25 pm : link
you can give credit to Spo or Riley or the culture or whatever.

They are the 7th seed in the putrid East. I dont see what is so great about that. Sure, they play hard and do some nice things. But they are no closer to being contenders than the like of the Knicks, Lakers, Bulls, etc. They are in purgatory. Picking anywhere between 15th and 18th is sure sign of non competing.

We saw this for YEARS with the Atlanta Hawks as they never factored in being contenders. Even the year they were the 1 seed, they were swept in the playoffs.
RE: Miami is irrelevant on how the NBA is now  
TyreeHelmet : 3/6/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13852104 dep026 said:
Quote:
you can give credit to Spo or Riley or the culture or whatever.

They are the 7th seed in the putrid East. I dont see what is so great about that. Sure, they play hard and do some nice things. But they are no closer to being contenders than the like of the Knicks, Lakers, Bulls, etc. They are in purgatory. Picking anywhere between 15th and 18th is sure sign of non competing.

We saw this for YEARS with the Atlanta Hawks as they never factored in being contenders. Even the year they were the 1 seed, they were swept in the playoffs.


Since 2001 Miami has 3 titles and the Knicks have 1 playoff series win. Have only had 2 losing seasons in the last 15 years. They have a top 5 coach and top 3 management. They can get meetings with any FA they want and if the top guys want to go there, they will make the cap work.

How is picking between 15-18 a sign of non competing? Would you rather them take the Knicks path and be embarrassingly bad while picking 8-10?
I love Riley is considered some great executive  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 12:52 pm : link
He has 2 good moves and has 3 titles because of it, he drafted wade and traded for shaq...

LeBron wade and bosh have all said they would of went anywhere that could fit all 3, you want to give him credit for trading players for peanuts? Fine..

Riley his moves other than that have been awful, and people give Phil no credit for kp yet Riley said he didn't even have kp on his board at 10..
Miami is going nowhere unless they get lucky again  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 12:53 pm : link
Spoelstra however is absolutely top 5 coach and he makes Riley look better than he is
If mills spent the money Riley did  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 12:56 pm : link
On those players he would be killed by everyone on bbi and in the media
RE: I love Riley is considered some great executive  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13852157 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
He has 2 good moves and has 3 titles because of it, he drafted wade and traded for shaq...

LeBron wade and bosh have all said they would of went anywhere that could fit all 3, you want to give him credit for trading players for peanuts? Fine..

Riley his moves other than that have been awful, and people give Phil no credit for kp yet Riley said he didn't even have kp on his board at 10..


What other moves have been "awful"?

Riley had a Finals MVP with 80% cap space free, thats pretty contrarian considering teams are usually forcing signings to get half-decent players for their star player. The first opportunity of that happening for the Knicks is in 2019 and 2020, lets see what type of success they achieve then.
RE: If mills spent the money Riley did  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/6/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13852170 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
On those players he would be killed by everyone on bbi and in the media

What are you smoking? The Knicks HAVE spent that kind of money on players, far, far worse. If Mills brought together 3 players of that quality who went on to 4 finals and two titles, he’d be sainted in NY.
RE: RE: If mills spent the money Riley did  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13852183 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13852170 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


On those players he would be killed by everyone on bbi and in the media


What are you smoking? The Knicks HAVE spent that kind of money on players, far, far worse. If Mills brought together 3 players of that quality who went on to 4 finals and two titles, he’d be sainted in NY.


So if mills signed, waiter, James Johnson and Kelly olynyk to big deals and capped out the team yoh would be happy?
RE: RE: I love Riley is considered some great executive  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13852182 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13852157 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


He has 2 good moves and has 3 titles because of it, he drafted wade and traded for shaq...

LeBron wade and bosh have all said they would of went anywhere that could fit all 3, you want to give him credit for trading players for peanuts? Fine..

Riley his moves other than that have been awful, and people give Phil no credit for kp yet Riley said he didn't even have kp on his board at 10..



What other moves have been "awful"?

Riley had a Finals MVP with 80% cap space free, thats pretty contrarian considering teams are usually forcing signings to get half-decent players for their star player. The first opportunity of that happening for the Knicks is in 2019 and 2020, lets see what type of success they achieve then.


First off I gave him credit for wade and if you wanted to give him credit for the only one being able to clear space for 3 players that is fine...

But can we stop saying LeBron and bosh went to Miami because of riley...

They went to Miami because 1 it is Miami and 2 they could all still get pause and win titles together...
Now Riley won 3 titles so he can do whatever he wants  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:09 pm : link
Would I kills for the knicks to have 3 titles in my lifetime absofrickenlutely..
RE: RE: RE: If mills spent the money Riley did  
Jim in Fairfax : 3/6/2018 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13852187 nygiants16 said:
Quote:


So if mills signed, waiter, James Johnson and Kelly olynyk to big deals and capped out the team yoh would be happy?

Sorry. Thought you meant Lebron/Bosh/Wade
RE: RE: RE: RE: If mills spent the money Riley did  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13852210 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13852187 nygiants16 said:


Quote:




So if mills signed, waiter, James Johnson and Kelly olynyk to big deals and capped out the team yoh would be happy?


Sorry. Thought you meant Lebron/Bosh/Wade


Why would anyone complain about signing 3 superstars?
RE: RE: RE: If mills spent the money Riley did  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13852187 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13852183 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 13852170 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


On those players he would be killed by everyone on bbi and in the media


What are you smoking? The Knicks HAVE spent that kind of money on players, far, far worse. If Mills brought together 3 players of that quality who went on to 4 finals and two titles, he’d be sainted in NY.



So if mills signed, waiter, James Johnson and Kelly olynyk to big deals and capped out the team yoh would be happy?


It's better than any deals the Knicks signed recently...but I was more implying the overall team direction over the past decade compared to the Knicks.
They are mediocre  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:26 pm : link
With no room to grow and no way to get better...

Spoelstra is the reason they are in the playoff hunt not riley
Go look at Miami salaries  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:27 pm : link
It is horrid, they are paying James Johnson 15 million a year..
RE: Go look at Miami salaries  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13852250 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
It is horrid, they are paying James Johnson 15 million a year..


James Johnson actually a pretty good player... we are paying THJR that same amount and James Johnson is making less than him. Olynyk and Whiteside are probably the most glaring contracts.

But yes, Miami hasnt managed the cap well as of late...but also the Knicks haven't either lol.

But go read what guys like James Johnson and Waiters have said about Riley, I will faint the day a Knicks player comes out of a meeting with a NY exec and says something similar.

Not saying Riley is the best exec ever but there's a pretty enormous gap between Riley and whoever has been in the Knicks office the last 15 years.
When you compare a shitstain to the knicks it is better  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 1:54 pm : link
I never said the kni is have been better or are run better..

I said for the praise Riley gets he has been mediocre...

And James Johnson is better than hardaway based on what?
RE: When you compare a shitstain to the knicks it is better  
giantsfan44ab : 3/6/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13852290 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I never said the kni is have been better or are run better..

I said for the praise Riley gets he has been mediocre...

And James Johnson is better than hardaway based on what?


James Johnson has transformed himself into a hardnosed defender and secondary playmaker since he signed with the Heat. Granted he's a lot older than THJR, but he's a lightyears better defender than THJR, better rebounder and passer.

Obviously age is there, but he is comparable to say Courtney Lee as a player and makes a bit more than him as well, but is also versatily (he's an ideal 4 but can guard 3s) so it s fairly justified IMO.

You telling me you would think about taking Perry/Mills over Riley? Because if the answer is no I can save the argument because we agree on the same thing.

If we are talking about top execs Im not sure where Riley stands but there is certainly a few execs I'd take over him just off the top of my head. Buford, Ainge, Morey, Meyers.

Hinkie lol.
Never said I'd take mills over riley  
nygiants16 : 3/6/2018 2:14 pm : link
And as for Johnson and hardaway i will give better defender but hardaway averages 3 assists and 4 boards, Johnson 5 boards and 3 assists, really that much better?

Not to mention 17 points to 10 points per game...

I just don't see how Johnson is a better than hardaway...

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