Great start; a Snacks for the OL. I expect NYG will draft 2 OLs in the first two days of the draft. In 2016 Gettleman at CAR drafted 3 CBs after letting Norman go (3 out of a total of 5 picks; RDs 2, 3, 5).
Great start; a Snacks for the OL. I expect NYG will draft 2 OLs in the first two days of the draft. In 2016 Gettleman at CAR drafted 3 CBs after letting Norman go (3 out of a total of 5 picks; RDs 2, 3, 5).
I really don't see the Giants going oline in the 1st round.
that John Dorsey was the anonymous source who warned "stay away" from Josh Rosen. Which a) Dorsey vehemently denied, and b) why is Pauline outing an anonymous source that he quoted?
And how many times have we seen deals that were supposedly "all but a done deal" turn out to be anything but a done deal? A recent baseball example is Gerrit Cole to the Yankees.
It's easy to connect the dots given Gettleman signed Norwell as an undrafted free agent, Gettleman values OL, the Giants need OL, and Mike Shula is his former OC in Carolina, but there are still plenty of missing dots that could render the ones everyone is connecting as irrelevant.
Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
p.s.--It's like Belichick getting credit for drafting Brady. Not saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit, but if he truly believed Brady would be remotely the QB he became, why did he wait until the 6th round to pull the trigger? This is the same guy who spent 3rd round picks on Kevin O'Donnell, Ryan Mallett, and Jacoby Brissett.
Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
p.s.--It's like Belichick getting credit for drafting Brady. Not saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit, but if he truly believed Brady would be remotely the QB he became, why did he wait until the 6th round to pull the trigger? This is the same guy who spent 3rd round picks on Kevin O'Donnell, Ryan Mallett, and Jacoby Brissett.
His opinion of Norwell over that time couldn't change? I think more indicative of DG's opinion of Norwell would be the huge deal given to Trai Turner.
The offensive line needs an offseason like the defensive line had Â
I really don't see the Giants going oline in the 1st round. [/quote]
Agreed, but I could see rounds ##2, 3. If we trade out of #2 down to 4, 5 or 6 (it would take a large set of stones to deal with the NYJ, but I think Gettleman would if he gets his price), I expect we would get a high #2 as part of the compensation, in which case I could see two round two OLs picked.
Quote: Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
His opinion of Norwell over that time couldn't change?
Of course, it could and I imagine it did, but the original quote was dating the high opinion of him to the time he signed as an undrafted free agent (if you get what I mean).
Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
p.s.--It's like Belichick getting credit for drafting Brady. Not saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit, but if he truly believed Brady would be remotely the QB he became, why did he wait until the 6th round to pull the trigger? This is the same guy who spent 3rd round picks on Kevin O'Donnell, Ryan Mallett, and Jacoby Brissett.
Wait so if a guy is drafted in the 6th or 7tg round and becomes a star the coach or GM doesn't get credit because when they drafted them they didn't expect them to become stars?
Huh? They drafted them because they saw something in those players but those players were big time projects, sometimes those projects hit..
When belichek drafted Brady of course he didn't see this no one did but I am sure he saw potential, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve credit
If a guy is rated in the 6th or 7tg round the gm of a team should draft that player in the 2nd or 3rd round because he really likes them? They would get castrated...
because he thought he didn't have to and could sign him as an UDFA?
From what I've read, Norwell was considered borderline NFL material due to questionable athleticism and he was compared to another Ohio State OL (Boone) who also went undrafted (and signed as UDFA) about 5 years prior.
to compete this year if this is true. Could mean Brarkley (if he is there) or a trade out for more picks to get Nelson with Browns or Jets pick. Staying With ELI and Webb as the QBs. We are not going to start a new QB just drafted or wait two years for him to develop in this scenario. IT is a win now keague with little patience for losing. Teams turn it all around every year.
It really does seem to be a perfect fit for both sides Â
Btw, last year Richburg, Fluker, and Pugh combined for about $13M. So he does kind of slot in nicely to hopefully do what those guys haven't been able to do - which is produce and stay healthy.
If a guy is rated in the 6th or 7tg round the gm of a team should draft that player in the 2nd or 3rd round because he really likes them? They would get castrated...
If the guy has a 6th round grade, that's where he should be drafted. Why would you spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a guy with a 6th or 7th round grade??? Castration seems like a rather severe punishment, but he should be fired.
p.s.--And if the GM has a 2nd or 3rd round grade on a prospect, he shouldn't assume that other GMs have a 6th or 7th round grade on him just because that's the grade that the media assigns. When it comes to the draft, never assume that you're smarter than everyone else.
to compete this year if this is true. Could mean Brarkley (if he is there) or a trade out for more picks to get Nelson with Browns or Jets pick. Staying With ELI and Webb as the QBs. We are not going to start a new QB just drafted or wait two years for him to develop in this scenario. IT is a win now keague with little patience for losing. Teams turn it all around every year.
I'm guessing if they sign Norwell, it won't be to a one year deal. It's not about winning now as opposed to winning later, it's about improving the team both now and later. Same with the #2 overall pick. If there is a QB worthy of the pick, there is no fucking way that Gettleman doesn't take him.
Is the ages of the people making the decision, Gettleman is 67, so does his desire to win now make him vulnerable to making a stupid decision? I hope not, I am not real confident in the Giants right now at all, in fact I would say it is the lowest it has been since the time before we got Young as GM.
John Mara has made too many stupid decisions in too short a time. Even how he screwed up the QB situation last season, and he screwed it up twice! Ending Eli's streak and not getting Webb a fucking snap is about as stupid as it gets. Firing Coughlin and keeping Reese, keeping Quinn forever when he proved to be horrible, hiring McAdoo. Now the Gettleman and Shurmer hiring, I they are the right hire, or we are going to be in deep shit.
Is the ages of the people making the decision, Gettleman is 67, so does his desire to win now make him vulnerable to making a stupid decision? I hope not, I am not real confident in the Giants right now at all, in fact I would say it is the lowest it has been since the time before we got Young as GM.
John Mara has made too many stupid decisions in too short a time. Even how he screwed up the QB situation last season, and he screwed it up twice! Ending Eli's streak and not getting Webb a fucking snap is about as stupid as it gets. Firing Coughlin and keeping Reese, keeping Quinn forever when he proved to be horrible, hiring McAdoo. Now the Gettleman and Shurmer hiring, I they are the right hire, or we are going to be in deep shit.
Gettleman's age does scare the crap out of me. He might not be thinking in terms of 10-15 years. Maybe he is, but that is something that I think is a legitimate concern. When you are 67 and you want to win now, you do things differently than someone who might be here for a long rebuild. With that said, if you don't win relatively quickly in this league you get canned anyway, so maybe his age is not as much of a factor in his decision making. I would hope Gettleman would believe his job is to get the foundation of something special going on here and whether or not he is here or not to enjoy the fruits of his labor is not his primary concern, since he saw how our fanbase did not forget about Ernie even though he left the year before 07.
Norwell went undrafted? What did he lack? Off field issues? I know UDFAs occasionally turn out to start in the NFL but rarely at such a high level.
And it's not like he came out of nowhere, he went to Ohio State. I checked his combine numbers and they were unimpressive. That probably had a lot to do with it. Nobody saw the upside.
sign norwell to anchor the line and draft saquon. along side a new outlook on offense and some relatively good health, our offense immediately goes from dreadful to average!
hell, with those play makers and the occasional deviation from the 11 formation, we may even score 30 pts 1 or 2 times this season!
Norwell would be more proof that the Giants really do believe Eli can play another few years. A proven OL veteran is exactly what he needs. It may also be evidence they don't intend to take a QB at #2.
Norwell would be more proof that the Giants really do believe Eli can play another few years. A proven OL veteran is exactly what he needs. It may also be evidence they don't intend to take a QB at #2.
This makes zero sense.
They need good lineman regardless of who is playing QB. So you're thinking they only want good veteran help on the line if they have Eli as QB, but not a stud rookie? Makes no sense at all
Norwell would be more proof that the Giants really do believe Eli can play another few years. A proven OL veteran is exactly what he needs. It may also be evidence they don't intend to take a QB at #2.
This makes zero sense.
They need good lineman regardless of who is playing QB. So you're thinking they only want good veteran help on the line if they have Eli as QB, but not a stud rookie? Makes no sense at all
I think it's more likely they would want a vet OL to protect a completely immobile QB than a rookie who at least has some mobility. Even Rosen is more mobile than Eli. DG said he thought Eli had a few more years. Norwell will be extremely expensive to sign. They might be less likely to pay that amount if they had a more mobile QB.
But perhaps the issue isn't whether my analysis is right or wrong, but why you feel the need to adopt an aggressive, insulting tone instead of politely disagreeing.
Norwell would be more proof that the Giants really do believe Eli can play another few years. A proven OL veteran is exactly what he needs. It may also be evidence they don't intend to take a QB at #2.
This makes zero sense.
They need good lineman regardless of who is playing QB. So you're thinking they only want good veteran help on the line if they have Eli as QB, but not a stud rookie? Makes no sense at all
I think it's more likely they would want a vet OL to protect a completely immobile QB than a rookie who at least has some mobility. Even Rosen is more mobile than Eli. DG said he thought Eli had a few more years. Norwell will be extremely expensive to sign. They might be less likely to pay that amount if they had a more mobile QB.
But perhaps the issue isn't whether my analysis is right or wrong, but why you feel the need to adopt an aggressive, insulting tone instead of politely disagreeing.
Norwell is a good “young”. You need to build a line that can pass block AND run block.
You're overthinking this. I think we need to stop looking at every comment made in the media and every roster move as sign of what this team intends to do at #2.
We don't have anything at OL. No big dollars invested. No longterm solutions in place. Nothing. It's a total blank slate top to bottom. Norwell is the best 2nd contract offensive lineman available in free agency. I think it's as simple as that. There are still 3-4 other slots that they'll need to fill through cheaper free agent signings and the draft. Probably over two offseasons.
complicated. It takes 5 guys to make a line. How many starters do we have now? Norwell would be 1 and 4 more to go. That’s as complicated as this gets DG said fixing the line was a priority. Well this is move 1.
complicated. It takes 5 guys to make a line. How many starters do we have now? Norwell would be 1 and 4 more to go. That’s as complicated as this gets DG said fixing the line was a priority. Well this is move 1.
Rebuilding the OL is not gong to happen in one offseason. It'll take another year at least to develop some quality OT's.
complicated. It takes 5 guys to make a line. How many starters do we have now? Norwell would be 1 and 4 more to go. That’s as complicated as this gets DG said fixing the line was a priority. Well this is move 1.
Rebuilding the OL is not gong to happen in one offseason. It'll take another year at least to develop some quality OT's.
Agree, the OL and really the whole roster is a 2 year rebuild. But Norwell would be an awesome piece to start with
Is the ages of the people making the decision, Gettleman is 67, so does his desire to win now make him vulnerable to making a stupid decision? I hope not, I am not real confident in the Giants right now at all, in fact I would say it is the lowest it has been since the time before we got Young as GM.
You should re-watch his first press conference. He made it quite clear that he understands his role isn't just to win now, but to protect the long term view as well.
Rebuilding the OL is not gong to happen in one offseason. It'll take another year at least to develop some quality OT's.
The Vikings just totally rebuilt their OL in one season, so why can't we? Sure, it might be better in year 2 than year 1, but I think DG can rebuild it sufficiently for us to compete.
You also have to consider the impact of better playcalling and effective use of a TE like Ellison and maybe a FB. Mcadoo sucked at all that.
I know they quote someone who thinks this in the article, but it's really just speculation. Doesn't sound like there's anything behind it.
Link - ( New Window )
I really don't see the Giants going oline in the 1st round.
Hope he prefers New York, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high!
And how many times have we seen deals that were supposedly "all but a done deal" turn out to be anything but a done deal? A recent baseball example is Gerrit Cole to the Yankees.
It's easy to connect the dots given Gettleman signed Norwell as an undrafted free agent, Gettleman values OL, the Giants need OL, and Mike Shula is his former OC in Carolina, but there are still plenty of missing dots that could render the ones everyone is connecting as irrelevant.
p.s.--It's like Belichick getting credit for drafting Brady. Not saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit, but if he truly believed Brady would be remotely the QB he became, why did he wait until the 6th round to pull the trigger? This is the same guy who spent 3rd round picks on Kevin O'Donnell, Ryan Mallett, and Jacoby Brissett.
Quote:
Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
p.s.--It's like Belichick getting credit for drafting Brady. Not saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit, but if he truly believed Brady would be remotely the QB he became, why did he wait until the 6th round to pull the trigger? This is the same guy who spent 3rd round picks on Kevin O'Donnell, Ryan Mallett, and Jacoby Brissett.
His opinion of Norwell over that time couldn't change? I think more indicative of DG's opinion of Norwell would be the huge deal given to Trai Turner.
I really don't see the Giants going oline in the 1st round. [/quote]
Agreed, but I could see rounds ##2, 3. If we trade out of #2 down to 4, 5 or 6 (it would take a large set of stones to deal with the NYJ, but I think Gettleman would if he gets his price), I expect we would get a high #2 as part of the compensation, in which case I could see two round two OLs picked.
Quote: Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
His opinion of Norwell over that time couldn't change?
Quote:
Gettleman’s high opinion of Norwell proved spot on in 2017 as the 6-foot-6, 325-pound lineman established himself as one of the most dominant in the game, earning his first All-Pro nod.
Not saying Gettleman doesn't have a woody for Norwell, but if he had such a high opinion of him in 2014, why didn't he draft him?
p.s.--It's like Belichick getting credit for drafting Brady. Not saying Belichick doesn't deserve credit, but if he truly believed Brady would be remotely the QB he became, why did he wait until the 6th round to pull the trigger? This is the same guy who spent 3rd round picks on Kevin O'Donnell, Ryan Mallett, and Jacoby Brissett.
Wait so if a guy is drafted in the 6th or 7tg round and becomes a star the coach or GM doesn't get credit because when they drafted them they didn't expect them to become stars?
Huh? They drafted them because they saw something in those players but those players were big time projects, sometimes those projects hit..
When belichek drafted Brady of course he didn't see this no one did but I am sure he saw potential, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve credit
From what I've read, Norwell was considered borderline NFL material due to questionable athleticism and he was compared to another Ohio State OL (Boone) who also went undrafted (and signed as UDFA) about 5 years prior.
p.s.--And if the GM has a 2nd or 3rd round grade on a prospect, he shouldn't assume that other GMs have a 6th or 7th round grade on him just because that's the grade that the media assigns. When it comes to the draft, never assume that you're smarter than everyone else.
John Mara has made too many stupid decisions in too short a time. Even how he screwed up the QB situation last season, and he screwed it up twice! Ending Eli's streak and not getting Webb a fucking snap is about as stupid as it gets. Firing Coughlin and keeping Reese, keeping Quinn forever when he proved to be horrible, hiring McAdoo. Now the Gettleman and Shurmer hiring, I they are the right hire, or we are going to be in deep shit.
John Mara has made too many stupid decisions in too short a time. Even how he screwed up the QB situation last season, and he screwed it up twice! Ending Eli's streak and not getting Webb a fucking snap is about as stupid as it gets. Firing Coughlin and keeping Reese, keeping Quinn forever when he proved to be horrible, hiring McAdoo. Now the Gettleman and Shurmer hiring, I they are the right hire, or we are going to be in deep shit.
Gettleman's age does scare the crap out of me. He might not be thinking in terms of 10-15 years. Maybe he is, but that is something that I think is a legitimate concern. When you are 67 and you want to win now, you do things differently than someone who might be here for a long rebuild. With that said, if you don't win relatively quickly in this league you get canned anyway, so maybe his age is not as much of a factor in his decision making. I would hope Gettleman would believe his job is to get the foundation of something special going on here and whether or not he is here or not to enjoy the fruits of his labor is not his primary concern, since he saw how our fanbase did not forget about Ernie even though he left the year before 07.
I read there were concerns about a lack of athleticism.
more precise words were "borderline NFL prospect due to questionable athleticism"
hell, with those play makers and the occasional deviation from the 11 formation, we may even score 30 pts 1 or 2 times this season!
From what I read, he performed well on the field at OS.
This makes zero sense.
They need good lineman regardless of who is playing QB. So you're thinking they only want good veteran help on the line if they have Eli as QB, but not a stud rookie? Makes no sense at all
Quote:
Norwell would be more proof that the Giants really do believe Eli can play another few years. A proven OL veteran is exactly what he needs. It may also be evidence they don't intend to take a QB at #2.
This makes zero sense.
They need good lineman regardless of who is playing QB. So you're thinking they only want good veteran help on the line if they have Eli as QB, but not a stud rookie? Makes no sense at all
I think it's more likely they would want a vet OL to protect a completely immobile QB than a rookie who at least has some mobility. Even Rosen is more mobile than Eli. DG said he thought Eli had a few more years. Norwell will be extremely expensive to sign. They might be less likely to pay that amount if they had a more mobile QB.
But perhaps the issue isn't whether my analysis is right or wrong, but why you feel the need to adopt an aggressive, insulting tone instead of politely disagreeing.
Quote:
In comment 13852412 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Norwell would be more proof that the Giants really do believe Eli can play another few years. A proven OL veteran is exactly what he needs. It may also be evidence they don't intend to take a QB at #2.
This makes zero sense.
They need good lineman regardless of who is playing QB. So you're thinking they only want good veteran help on the line if they have Eli as QB, but not a stud rookie? Makes no sense at all
I think it's more likely they would want a vet OL to protect a completely immobile QB than a rookie who at least has some mobility. Even Rosen is more mobile than Eli. DG said he thought Eli had a few more years. Norwell will be extremely expensive to sign. They might be less likely to pay that amount if they had a more mobile QB.
But perhaps the issue isn't whether my analysis is right or wrong, but why you feel the need to adopt an aggressive, insulting tone instead of politely disagreeing.
Norwell is a good “young”. You need to build a line that can pass block AND run block.
We don't have anything at OL. No big dollars invested. No longterm solutions in place. Nothing. It's a total blank slate top to bottom. Norwell is the best 2nd contract offensive lineman available in free agency. I think it's as simple as that. There are still 3-4 other slots that they'll need to fill through cheaper free agent signings and the draft. Probably over two offseasons.
Rebuilding the OL is not gong to happen in one offseason. It'll take another year at least to develop some quality OT's.
Bah, he won't be able to afford living here.
Quote:
complicated. It takes 5 guys to make a line. How many starters do we have now? Norwell would be 1 and 4 more to go. That’s as complicated as this gets DG said fixing the line was a priority. Well this is move 1.
Rebuilding the OL is not gong to happen in one offseason. It'll take another year at least to develop some quality OT's.
Agree, the OL and really the whole roster is a 2 year rebuild. But Norwell would be an awesome piece to start with
You should re-watch his first press conference. He made it quite clear that he understands his role isn't just to win now, but to protect the long term view as well.
Quote:
Rebuilding the OL is not gong to happen in one offseason. It'll take another year at least to develop some quality OT's.
The Vikings just totally rebuilt their OL in one season, so why can't we? Sure, it might be better in year 2 than year 1, but I think DG can rebuild it sufficiently for us to compete.
You also have to consider the impact of better playcalling and effective use of a TE like Ellison and maybe a FB. Mcadoo sucked at all that.