Dilfer: Giants have their QB of future in Webb

Seems like a hard working guy. I didn't know he was voted Captain at Cal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knliyjCihw

but a major risk planning on it. Giants need to draft one of these QB's.

by glowrider, Dunk, David B, Acid, et al.

NYG will get the best QB or best player in the draft, well put.

In comment 13852378 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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Quote: I think some fans just want Barkley so badly that they're rationalizing not taking a QB anyway they can. Ding ding ding

and vice versa

In comment 13852418 glowrider said:

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I think these guys will just key off the Browns. If Cle takes the RB, we get the QB of our choice. If they take a QB, we prob take the RB unless they truly are buying into one of the QBs.

If they don't truly buy into one of the QBs, they shouldn't take one regardless of what the Browns did with their first pick. If the Browns take Barkley, the Giants could go Chubb or Nelson (both of whom I prefer over Barkley anyway).

In comment 13852467 Rjanyg said:

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Seems like a hard working guy. I didn't know he was voted Captain at Cal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knliyjCihw

Great video. Webb would be very easy to root for.

In comment 13852206 EddieNYG said:

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In comment 13852191 ryanmkeane said: Quote: In comment 13852189 EddieNYG said: Quote: I don't think Davis Webb is going to determine if they pass on a QB. People keep saying that...but how would that be the case if they like Webb a lot? If they like Webb a lot and think he can be a franchise type QB in 2 years...why would they still draft a QB? They could really like Webb. But it's a tough sell to me to pass on Darnold, Allen or Rosen because of Davis Webb. I think some fans just want Barkley so badly that they're rationalizing not taking a QB anyway they can. It would be foolish to pass on a QB picking at 2 with a 37 year old QB other than you don't like any of them. If they trade out of 2, and the QB picked at 2 becomes an All-Pro, I guarantee you the people complaining the loudest would be the same ones who are hoping for a trade down now.

Yep. Nailed it.

In comment 13852467 Rjanyg said:

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Seems like a hard working guy. I didn't know he was voted Captain at Cal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knliyjCihw

Good video. Webb looks athletic and seems to have a great attitude.

A lot of good points both ways. At the end of the day, it will come down to whether the Giants really covet a qb at 2. I have a hard time believing they won't like at least one, if not two of the qbs. I don't think Webb will deter anyone from taking a qb.

Most of you know I am not a Webb fan, I saw him play a lot in college and was surprised he was picked as high as round 3. That being said, a late third round pick is not what I would call a premium pick on a qb, it's 100% a lottery ticket. I also believe if he's not picked by the Giants at 87, he falls into the forth round, which is Nassib territory. In fairness to Webb, best case scenario would be him as a franchise qb, and I'm not simply speaking about a medicore qb, but a legit franchise Qb. However, I don't see how it's really even disputable amongst fans that it's a long shot that he ends up anything other than a legitimate backup qb.

In comment 13852197 nyjuggernaut2 said:

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in Webb's hands. But at the same time, it's a gamble taking a QB at #2 and hoping he becomes the franchise QB one day. Just have to trust the front office on this one whichever way they decide to go.

If they take one at number two, then either that QB or Webb could be the quarterback of the future. There's a better chance of one of the two quarterbacks panning out than putting all of their eggs in one basket.

This running theme that the Giants made a huge mistake not playing Webb last year. The offense was in shambles, the OL sucked, and he had no WRs to throw to.

Couple that with that fact that EVERYONE knows he was raw and was not NFL ready. What was to gain if he flopped? You saw vets like Manning and Smith also fail. More than likely, the same thing woulda happened with Webb, if not worse.

The tape from last year should be burned and buried for every Quarterback that played a snap for the Giants. There is a reason why McAdoo/Reese are out of a job right now, and it is mostly due to the fact that the offense and OL was a mess.

In comment 13852523 gmen9892 said:

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This running theme that the Giants made a huge mistake not playing Webb last year. The offense was in shambles, the OL sucked, and he had no WRs to throw to. Couple that with that fact that EVERYONE knows he was raw and was not NFL ready. What was to gain if he flopped? You saw vets like Manning and Smith also fail. More than likely, the same thing woulda happened with Webb, if not worse. The tape from last year should be burned and buried for every Quarterback that played a snap for the Giants. There is a reason why McAdoo/Reese are out of a job right now, and it is mostly due to the fact that the offense and OL was a mess.

Shhhh that premise ruins the narrative by many on this board that a QB should always elevate a shitty team regardless of how putrid it is. Don't you know its a 1 player sport?

In comment 13852533 bLiTz 2k said:

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In comment 13852523 gmen9892 said: Quote: This running theme that the Giants made a huge mistake not playing Webb last year. The offense was in shambles, the OL sucked, and he had no WRs to throw to. Couple that with that fact that EVERYONE knows he was raw and was not NFL ready. What was to gain if he flopped? You saw vets like Manning and Smith also fail. More than likely, the same thing woulda happened with Webb, if not worse. The tape from last year should be burned and buried for every Quarterback that played a snap for the Giants. There is a reason why McAdoo/Reese are out of a job right now, and it is mostly due to the fact that the offense and OL was a mess. Shhhh that premise ruins the narrative by many on this board that a QB should always elevate a shitty team regardless of how putrid it is. Don't you know its a 1 player sport?

It's ironic that many Giants fans recognize the heroics of Eli himself for elevating a relatively mediocre team to Super Bowl champions in 2011 (and rightfully so - his performance that season and especially that postseason absolutely elevated that team to a level they otherwise had no business achieving), yet want to have it both ways and now use the crappy supporting cast as a way of dismissing what otherwise appears to be a trend of decline for Eli.

And it's not just Eli - look at the Packers without Rodgers and the Colts without Luck (or a few years earlier, without Peyton). Look at the 49ers before they inserted Garoppolo into the starting lineup and then after. There are QBs elevating crappy teams elsewhere in the league. We went 3-13 last year. It's not because everyone except Eli sucked. It's because everyone sucked.

of Webb based on any knowledge?

Did they cross paths at a QB camp? Does he have buddies on the Giants who shared impressions of Webb?

In comment 13852523 gmen9892 said:

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This running theme that the Giants made a huge mistake not playing Webb last year. The offense was in shambles, the OL sucked, and he had no WRs to throw to. Couple that with that fact that EVERYONE knows he was raw and was not NFL ready. What was to gain if he flopped? You saw vets like Manning and Smith also fail. More than likely, the same thing woulda happened with Webb, if not worse. The tape from last year should be burned and buried for every Quarterback that played a snap for the Giants. There is a reason why McAdoo/Reese are out of a job right now, and it is mostly due to the fact that the offense and OL was a mess.

Good post. Thanks for unpacking this assumption. It's just that -- not a 'fact.'

Darnold hasn't taken snaps under center if I am correct? He didn't audible much either correct? He is also very young.

How is adding Darnold a good investment in terms of being pro ready if we are saying how green Webb was or is?

The argument for Rosen or even Allen might be plausible because at least those guys ran more of a pro style offense.

In comment 13852540 Gatorade Dunk said:

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And it's not just Eli - look at the Packers without Rodgers and the Colts without Luck (or a few years earlier, without Peyton). Look at the 49ers before they inserted Garoppolo into the starting lineup and then after. There are QBs elevating crappy teams elsewhere in the league. We went 3-13 last year. It's not because everyone except Eli sucked. It's because everyone sucked.

I can't conclude that Eli sucked because I believe that any QB last year would have been subject to lousy play calling, backup receivers and no time to throw the ball. If DG and Shumur get this fixed, we can see how Eli performs.

I will grant you that with these issues, Eli did not play well.

In comment 13852425 Section331 said:

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In comment 13852410 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Webb Rosen Darnold Allen Mayfield arm accuracy production Character health size athleticism turnovers How would you rank them? I'll play! Arm - Allen, Webb, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield Accuracy - Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Webb, Allen Production - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen Character - Webb, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield Health - No concerns other than Rosen Size - Allen, Webb, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield Athleticism - Allen, Mayfield, Webb, Darnold, Rosen TO's - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen

That's where I have them too, except Rosen over Darnold in size. He doesn't seem that far away and he has had a year with Eli. I am hoping for Barkley at 2.

In comment 13852540 Gatorade Dunk said:

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It's ironic that many Giants fans recognize the heroics of Eli himself for elevating a relatively mediocre team to Super Bowl champions in 2011 (and rightfully so - his performance that season and especially that postseason absolutely elevated that team to a level they otherwise had no business achieving), yet want to have it both ways and now use the crappy supporting cast as a way of dismissing what otherwise appears to be a trend of decline for Eli. And it's not just Eli - look at the Packers without Rodgers and the Colts without Luck (or a few years earlier, without Peyton). Look at the 49ers before they inserted Garoppolo into the starting lineup and then after. There are QBs elevating crappy teams elsewhere in the league. We went 3-13 last year. It's not because everyone except Eli sucked. It's because everyone sucked.

That's fair, but I think if most Giants fans are being honest, they will admit that Eli doesn't exist any longer. That doesn't mean that he can't be effective with a better supporting cast. So if upgrading the overall talent level is the plan, it's not the worst idea to roll with Eli for another year.

In comment 13852553 Thegratefulhead said:

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That's where I have them too, except Rosen over Darnold in size. He doesn't seem that far away and he has had a year with Eli. I am hoping for Barkley at 2.

Very true. I expected Darnold to come in a little bigger than Rosen (at least weightwise), and forgot the combine measurements.

In comment 13852540 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13852533 bLiTz 2k said: Quote: In comment 13852523 gmen9892 said: Quote: This running theme that the Giants made a huge mistake not playing Webb last year. The offense was in shambles, the OL sucked, and he had no WRs to throw to. Couple that with that fact that EVERYONE knows he was raw and was not NFL ready. What was to gain if he flopped? You saw vets like Manning and Smith also fail. More than likely, the same thing woulda happened with Webb, if not worse. The tape from last year should be burned and buried for every Quarterback that played a snap for the Giants. There is a reason why McAdoo/Reese are out of a job right now, and it is mostly due to the fact that the offense and OL was a mess. Shhhh that premise ruins the narrative by many on this board that a QB should always elevate a shitty team regardless of how putrid it is. Don't you know its a 1 player sport? It's ironic that many Giants fans recognize the heroics of Eli himself for elevating a relatively mediocre team to Super Bowl champions in 2011 (and rightfully so - his performance that season and especially that postseason absolutely elevated that team to a level they otherwise had no business achieving), yet want to have it both ways and now use the crappy supporting cast as a way of dismissing what otherwise appears to be a trend of decline for Eli. And it's not just Eli - look at the Packers without Rodgers and the Colts without Luck (or a few years earlier, without Peyton). Look at the 49ers before they inserted Garoppolo into the starting lineup and then after. There are QBs elevating crappy teams elsewhere in the league. We went 3-13 last year. It's not because everyone except Eli sucked. It's because everyone sucked.

Without arguijng the point, I would say that there's a whale of a difference between elevating even journeymen players and less than replacement level players. In our SB, they weren't HoF players but they were capable. You can't say that these past couple years. It's really hard to make generalizations...this player is not necessarily that player.

In comment 13852558 Section331 said:

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In comment 13852540 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: It's ironic that many Giants fans recognize the heroics of Eli himself for elevating a relatively mediocre team to Super Bowl champions in 2011 (and rightfully so - his performance that season and especially that postseason absolutely elevated that team to a level they otherwise had no business achieving), yet want to have it both ways and now use the crappy supporting cast as a way of dismissing what otherwise appears to be a trend of decline for Eli. And it's not just Eli - look at the Packers without Rodgers and the Colts without Luck (or a few years earlier, without Peyton). Look at the 49ers before they inserted Garoppolo into the starting lineup and then after. There are QBs elevating crappy teams elsewhere in the league. We went 3-13 last year. It's not because everyone except Eli sucked. It's because everyone sucked. That's fair, but I think if most Giants fans are being honest, they will admit that Eli doesn't exist any longer. That doesn't mean that he can't be effective with a better supporting cast. So if upgrading the overall talent level is the plan, it's not the worst idea to roll with Eli for another year.

I wouldn't disagree with that - I don't think it's a mistake to stick with Eli for another year. What I do think is (at least potentially) a mistake is for fans to bury their collective heads in the sand and deny the possibility that Eli is in decline, even if some of his performance can be explained away by external factors.

The dream scenario for most teams is to be able to transition directly from one franchise QB to the next, and due to the way last season played out, we may have that opportunity. I don't think sticking with Eli for another season or two means that they can't draft a top QB prospect (and likewise, that drafting a top QB prospect doesn't mean they can't stick with Eli for another season or two). In a way, those two scenarios exist independent of each other, largely as a function of Eli's age. Even if there was absolutely nothing to suggest he might be in decline, I think it would be prudent to be looking for his successor anyway.

And I think some fans are waiting for that perfect QB prospect to blow them away - that guy doesn't exist. Every QB prospect has warts. The same thing will happen next year and the year after that. It's a function of the proliferation of the spread offense as well as the 24/7 news cycle which provides so much more access and insight to these players before the draft arrives. All QB prospects have flaws and they always have. We just didn't have the same access to learning about those flaws in the past, and we didn't have platforms like Twitter for those flaws to be amplified over and over again by the echo chamber of football analysts.

And even if there were to be a seemingly flawless prospect - such as Eli himself was or Andrew Luck in more recent years - it's hardly foolproof. Eli has been a great QB for this franchise for 14 years, and has led us to two SB victories, but has also led the NFL in interceptions (and turnovers in general) since he entered the league. Andrew Luck has been very good when healthy, but now may never be the same player again after his most recent injury.

This is an absolute certainty: we will need a new starting QB sometime in the near future. Whether some believe that to be one, two or even three years from now is a matter of some conjecture. But there will be a day where Eli will no longer be our QB, and at 37 years old, that day gets sooner and more real every year.

If Gettleman and Shurmur simply don't believe that any of the QB prospects in this draft have what it takes to succeed, then of course the Giants shouldn't force a QB pick. You shouldn't pick a player at any position, particularly that high in the draft, that you don't feel confident about. But if you do have a conviction about any of them, you shouldn't dismiss your opportunity to secure the successor to your 37 year old QB no matter how much you believe in the incumbent. Even if Eli does find the fountain of youth under Shurmur and with the benefit of an upgraded OL, the QB prospect would retain plenty of value (just look at Garoppolo - the Patriots kept him for three seasons and still got a better pick back for him than the one they spent to draft him).

The only risk is getting that pick wrong, and that risk exists with every player in every draft, no matter what position they play.

In comment 13852454 GFAN52 said:

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In comment 13852425 Section331 said: Quote: In comment 13852410 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Webb Rosen Darnold Allen Mayfield arm accuracy production Character health size athleticism turnovers How would you rank them? I'll play! Arm - Allen, Webb, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield Accuracy - Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Webb, Allen Production - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen Character - Webb, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield Health - No concerns other than Rosen Size - Allen, Webb, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield Athleticism - Allen, Mayfield, Webb, Darnold, Rosen TO's - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen Nicely done. One little quibble on size, Rosen is bigger than Darnold.

Rosen last on athleticism??? You have to be kidding me. He might be the slowest, I didn't see their combo times, but the kid was one of the best tennis players in the country as a high schooler. Last time I checked, you need to be pretty athletic to play a game like that, and the footwork you need for tennis in using your body and posture to gain traction, power, and accuracy while hitting a ball is not that foreign from similar skills you need to throw a football, including on the run.

In comment 13852570 Essex said:

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In comment 13852454 GFAN52 said: Quote: In comment 13852425 Section331 said: Quote: In comment 13852410 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Webb Rosen Darnold Allen Mayfield arm accuracy production Character health size athleticism turnovers How would you rank them? I'll play! Arm - Allen, Webb, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield Accuracy - Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Webb, Allen Production - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen Character - Webb, Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield Health - No concerns other than Rosen Size - Allen, Webb, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield Athleticism - Allen, Mayfield, Webb, Darnold, Rosen TO's - Mayfield, Rosen, Webb, Darnold, Allen Nicely done. One little quibble on size, Rosen is bigger than Darnold. Rosen last on athleticism??? You have to be kidding me. He might be the slowest, I didn't see their combo times, but the kid was one of the best tennis players in the country as a high schooler. Last time I checked, you need to be pretty athletic to play a game like that, and the footwork you need for tennis in using your body and posture to gain traction, power, and accuracy while hitting a ball is not that foreign from similar skills you need to throw a football, including on the run.

Also, this list is missing behind arm strength and accuracy, the most important attribute you need in a qb, and that is football intelligence. That is Eli's greatest strength and the reason why he is a HOF qb. Brady can recognize defenses, etc. The mental part of this game is just as important as the physical.

In comment 13852569 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13852558 Section331 said: Quote: In comment 13852540 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: It's ironic that many Giants fans recognize the heroics of Eli himself for elevating a relatively mediocre team to Super Bowl champions in 2011 (and rightfully so - his performance that season and especially that postseason absolutely elevated that team to a level they otherwise had no business achieving), yet want to have it both ways and now use the crappy supporting cast as a way of dismissing what otherwise appears to be a trend of decline for Eli. And it's not just Eli - look at the Packers without Rodgers and the Colts without Luck (or a few years earlier, without Peyton). Look at the 49ers before they inserted Garoppolo into the starting lineup and then after. There are QBs elevating crappy teams elsewhere in the league. We went 3-13 last year. It's not because everyone except Eli sucked. It's because everyone sucked. That's fair, but I think if most Giants fans are being honest, they will admit that Eli doesn't exist any longer. That doesn't mean that he can't be effective with a better supporting cast. So if upgrading the overall talent level is the plan, it's not the worst idea to roll with Eli for another year. I wouldn't disagree with that - I don't think it's a mistake to stick with Eli for another year. What I do think is (at least potentially) a mistake is for fans to bury their collective heads in the sand and deny the possibility that Eli is in decline, even if some of his performance can be explained away by external factors. The dream scenario for most teams is to be able to transition directly from one franchise QB to the next, and due to the way last season played out, we may have that opportunity. I don't think sticking with Eli for another season or two means that they can't draft a top QB prospect (and likewise, that drafting a top QB prospect doesn't mean they can't stick with Eli for another season or two). In a way, those two scenarios exist independent of each other, largely as a function of Eli's age. Even if there was absolutely nothing to suggest he might be in decline, I think it would be prudent to be looking for his successor anyway. And I think some fans are waiting for that perfect QB prospect to blow them away - that guy doesn't exist. Every QB prospect has warts. The same thing will happen next year and the year after that. It's a function of the proliferation of the spread offense as well as the 24/7 news cycle which provides so much more access and insight to these players before the draft arrives. All QB prospects have flaws and they always have. We just didn't have the same access to learning about those flaws in the past, and we didn't have platforms like Twitter for those flaws to be amplified over and over again by the echo chamber of football analysts. And even if there were to be a seemingly flawless prospect - such as Eli himself was or Andrew Luck in more recent years - it's hardly foolproof. Eli has been a great QB for this franchise for 14 years, and has led us to two SB victories, but has also led the NFL in interceptions (and turnovers in general) since he entered the league. Andrew Luck has been very good when healthy, but now may never be the same player again after his most recent injury. This is an absolute certainty: we will need a new starting QB sometime in the near future. Whether some believe that to be one, two or even three years from now is a matter of some conjecture. But there will be a day where Eli will no longer be our QB, and at 37 years old, that day gets sooner and more real every year. If Gettleman and Shurmur simply don't believe that any of the QB prospects in this draft have what it takes to succeed, then of course the Giants shouldn't force a QB pick. You shouldn't pick a player at any position, particularly that high in the draft, that you don't feel confident about. But if you do have a conviction about any of them, you shouldn't dismiss your opportunity to secure the successor to your 37 year old QB no matter how much you believe in the incumbent. Even if Eli does find the fountain of youth under Shurmur and with the benefit of an upgraded OL, the QB prospect would retain plenty of value (just look at Garoppolo - the Patriots kept him for three seasons and still got a better pick back for him than the one they spent to draft him). The only risk is getting that pick wrong, and that risk exists with every player in every draft, no matter what position they play.

Spot on. This is a very succinct way of stating the current situation. I have a hard time believing that the Giants will extend Eli to another contract. So at a maximum, Eli has two years left under center. At that point, the Giants will need a qb one way or another. This notion of a flawless qb prospect is overblown, and frankly, quite absurd. However, should a flawless prospect exist in some future draft, do we really believe the Giants will be the only team looking to trade-up?

In comment 13852421 AcidTest said:

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don't refuse to take a QB at #2 because of Webb. You do it because none are worth the #2 pick.

y

Why not maybe they like Webb more BS you don’t know anything for sure

It’s not that none of the QB prospects blow people away. At least it’s not just that there’s no prospects that blow people away. I’m sure that some of these guys will become solid players. But the hesitation by some is that there’s a player, albeit at a different position, that does blow people away. The talent differential is so large, not not in comparison to others at his position, but to every other player In the draft that some think it overcomes traditional biases against drafting a special player st his position and may overcome the need to immediately draft a QB, which, by itself, is good strategy for planning two years from now but may not be the most immediate need. Eli’s availability contributes to this, Eli’s age figures into it, it the unusual super,active ability of the RB also plays into it. Hence, co sternatin and controversy.

to find the next starting QB is simply a ballsy strategy.

This is not to blame Eli but to come to grips with the fact that he is a key contributor to the decline of the Offense.

Wait to you all see the warts on the QB that will fall to us when we draft #14 next season or the one after that...

and never lets go of it. So now what do the Giants do? According to many on BBI one year later Webb has zero value since he has done nothing in the last year. What value will that number two pick have? Oh yeah, he is insurance. A pick that comes along every 37 years and you want to spend it on insurance! The Giants can improve the team in a huge way with that number two pick and take a year to really find out what they have in Webb. Of course there will be no QB's after this year which is a good thing since the Giants will never get another opportunity to draft one. Never again!

with Eli as QB. Manning, with two seconds to release the ball, forcing it to double covered OBJ every passing down.

Eli getting hit and coughing up the football. Eli under pressure throwing the ball up for grabs.

I realize that Eli would look much better if he had a sound O-Line and a dangerous running game. But he doesn't have a sound O-Line.

Do we even know one player who will be starting next year? Surely they're not going to put Flowers out there at LOT again. Try him at another position and if he fails then he's a write-off.

Players that looked promising like Pugh, Richburg and Fluker saw their promising play deteriorate and/or they couldn't stay on the field. And a couple are free agents.

So given the promise of a shaky line next season, an immobile QB like Manning emphasizes the weakness in the protection. A younger quarterback who can sidestep a blitzer or roll out of a collapsing pocket while looking for an open receiver downfield minimizes and even frustrates the defensive pass rush.

Another year like last for Manning just further diminishes him in the eyes of others in the league.

My opinion changes if they sign Norwell and another one or two free agent linemen up a little in age, but sound and with above average ability.

To high 20’s that 14. But your point probably remains. Although, it contains an implicit assumption that at 14 the guy we picked is worse than someone in this crop. That’s no surety. Also assumes there’s no Bridgewater or Foles or whoever available. But there is every year. There’s this “this year or nothing” mantra which I think is not true. Especially when you eschew a unique talent differential.

In comment 13852620 wgenesis123 said:

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and never lets go of it. So now what do the Giants do? According to many on BBI one year later Webb has zero value since he has done nothing in the last year. What value will that number two pick have? Oh yeah, he is insurance. A pick that comes along every 37 years and you want to spend it on insurance! The Giants can improve the team in a huge way with that number two pick and take a year to really find out what they have in Webb. Of course there will be no QB's after this year which is a good thing since the Giants will never get another opportunity to draft one. Never again!

So what you're banking on is that there's a chance Davis Webb could win a camp battle, therefore the team should pass on a better prospect.

Look, I get that people have their minds apparently made up on these QBs, but Davis Webb wasn't some great prospect last year. He was an afterthought behind a couple of guys who everyone agreed would need to spend a year on the bench.

And he wouldn't be ahead of any of the guys at the top this year. He wouldn't even be ahead of Allen, and all he's done is be tall and have a big arm.

Nevertheless, under your scenario it is now even riskier to find our next QB, or more expensive to move.

But if you think we can take Barkley and squeeze all remaining talent out of Eli to the tune of the 6th best team this next season then I would agree we should roll that dice.

Although I think that is awfully aggressive...

ONJ, Engram, Eli, and Barkley.

my head around the concept that he adds the most value even though selecting him creates significantly more risk at QB for the future, and possibly very near future. And since QB is simply a more valuable cog than RB, we are going to be worse off.

And I realize many of you all have more conviction than I do that Eli will hold up. And to that point it appears as if the Giant brass does as well.

Man, I hope I’m wrong,,,

In comment 13852620 wgenesis123 said:

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and never lets go of it. So now what do the Giants do? According to many on BBI one year later Webb has zero value since he has done nothing in the last year. What value will that number two pick have? Oh yeah, he is insurance. A pick that comes along every 37 years and you want to spend it on insurance! The Giants can improve the team in a huge way with that number two pick and take a year to really find out what they have in Webb. Of course there will be no QB's after this year which is a good thing since the Giants will never get another opportunity to draft one. Never again!

The Patriots spent a late 2nd on a QB, kept him for 3.5 of the 4 cheap years on his rookie contract, and STILL got a higher pick back when they traded him than the one they used to draft him. It really wouldn't kill you to actually pay attention to what happens in the NFL if you're going to continue to express your opinion.

its the various downsides to everyone of the consensus big 4 QB's in this draft,none of the draft gurus are able to agree on the pecking order or whether any of them are the franchise QB's or not in fact some have jackson in the top 4 and mayfield way down,it probably would have been rosen but in new york facing the defences in the nfc east an injury prone QB with concussion history is a total non starter

its not burying your head if you dont believe any of them are that good,with the QB guru coach in shurmur who just took case keenum to the championship game what do you think he could do with eli?.

webb was widely tipped as having the talent but needing the development and he has a rifle for an arm,and smart player so that is plan b if eli truly was to blame for last years record (which i dont think he was and clearly neither did gettleman)

this is the reason why many of us want barkley they have a stable enough QB situation to pass on the QB crop anyway,you have major concerns with EVERYONE of them,barkley allows eli to hand the ball off more and extend his career not having to carry the team solely as he has done.his presence will force teams to pull guys out of coverage to stop him which will gives that receiving corps more favourable matchups thats a win win situation

could all be for nothing as the browns could take barkley at 1,if they do i would hope they trade the giants to get back in at 2 and take their QB at 4 the giants can then take one of chubb,fitzpatrick or nelson and maybe use one of the extra picks from that to take one of the other RB's in the second round if they came out with nelson and guice/michel and extra picks besides that will make a huge difference to the giants chances

In comment 13852727 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13852620 wgenesis123 said: Quote: and never lets go of it. So now what do the Giants do? According to many on BBI one year later Webb has zero value since he has done nothing in the last year. What value will that number two pick have? Oh yeah, he is insurance. A pick that comes along every 37 years and you want to spend it on insurance! The Giants can improve the team in a huge way with that number two pick and take a year to really find out what they have in Webb. Of course there will be no QB's after this year which is a good thing since the Giants will never get another opportunity to draft one. Never again! The Patriots spent a late 2nd on a QB, kept him for 3.5 of the 4 cheap years on his rookie contract, and STILL got a higher pick back when they traded him than the one they used to draft him. It really wouldn't kill you to actually pay attention to what happens in the NFL if you're going to continue to express your opinion.

The only pick higher than #2 overall is #1 overall. You aren’t suggesting using #34 to select a QB and letting him compete with Webb. If the Giants are not convinced that any of the QB’s are a substantial improvement over Webb, I don’t want to see one forced at #2 overall when we can possibly trade down for multiple high picks or take a different position that we know will substantially upgrade what we currently have

They have no basis at all to determine whether Webb will be a solid NFL starter. He has yet to play a game and all of his practices have been with the JV team.

We know just a little bit more about his on field ability today than we did a year ago.

In comment 13852920 EricJ said:

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They have no basis at all to determine whether Webb will be a solid NFL starter. He has yet to play a game and all of his practices have been with the JV team. We know just a little bit more about his on field ability today than we did a year ago.

Please point me to the youtube clips of any one of the college QBs playing in the NFL I did a search and can't find any

I can youtube Webb clips from college just like this years draft. PS has already said he watched the JV tape, talked with everyone in the building, etc to get a handle on Webb's abilities.

The logic of Webb has no bearing on the number 2 pick is also faulty.

Let's roll back history to 1983. How was Phil Simms as a QB then? The answer is not very good. I bet they looked at him and that helped them to determine whether or not they were going to draft Marino or Kelly.

The giants absolutely will look at their roster and determine area of absolute need and place a value on it. That will entail evaluating the position and the current roster at that position.
If they feel QB is the greatest need based on that, and the player they want is available, great go for it.

If they have that list but have a college player listed as a "must have" regardless of position (BPA) then they'll draft that player.

In comment 13852446 section125 said:

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In comment 13852353 chuckydee9 said: Quote: making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb.. Gettleman had Newton, why would he draft a QB? Shurmur had Bradford and Bridgewater, why would he need a QB? Think before you post.

Yes because bradford and bridgewater are the end all solution to QB problems especially at the beginning of last year.. and regardless of position a GM going into the draft looks at all possible top players.. just because they have newton doesn't mean they don't properly evaluate a top 100 player.. At this point it only makes sense that DG says good things about Webb regardless of what he has seen or hasn't seen.. I doubt he has seen much because Webb isn't allowed to show anything or practise in front of Giants staff.. and at the time DG joined he had bigger things to worry about..

In comment 13852442 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13852358 TMS said: Quote: In comment 13852353 chuckydee9 said: Quote: making the decisions this time around was involved in the 2017 draft and they all passed on Webb 3 times.. trust me no one other than media who want to look relevant at this time of the year thinks highly of him to draft over a quality QB this time around.. if any of the QBs available standout to DG or PS then they will take him.. because no one whose job is on the line really thinks highly of Webb.. How do you know what their opinion of Webb is ? Everything I read is that it is positive, Stop the BS. There is absolutely no benefit to having anything but glowing reviews come out about Webb. If they want to draft a QB, praising Webb helps mask their intentions. If they don't have a conviction about any of the QBs in this draft, praising Webb helps his confidence. If they are confident in Webb as their future QB, then of course they're going to praise him - why would they say anything negative? I'm not saying that their praise is necessarily some sort of smokescreen, but I don't think you can draw any conclusion at all about it since there is not a scenario at all where they'd say anything but overwhelmingly positive things about Webb. It's the appropriate answer in all potential scenarios, so it means absolutely nothing. If you think the front office and/or coaching staff has some sort of obligation to make sure you know how they honestly feel about anything as they lead up to the draft, you're just being naive.

+1.. this basic concept isn't going to go threw the Webb dreamers... Pat Shummer hasn't seen anything of Webb since he joined.. not one second of real football or even live practice.. how would his opinion have changed since the pre-draft?

In comment 13852230 BamaBlue said:

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In comment 13852219 Rflairr said: Quote: And the new regime would have something to go on +1 Unfortunately, we are where we are.

+2 And dumb decisions like leaving Webb on the sidelines are why we have the new regime...

In comment 13852230 BamaBlue said:

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In comment 13852219 Rflairr said: Quote: And the new regime would have something to go on +1 Unfortunately, we are where we are.

+2 And dumb decisions like leaving Webb on the sidelines are why we have the new regime...

than mine and most everybody else too since none of us have seen what he can do, one of the biggest stupid screwups that the Giants have done in recent memory.....

with Webb's grand total of zero regular season snaps despite our worst season ever last season. Good stuff.

Than they know about any qb you could name in the draft?

all about Webb now all working elsewhere or unemployed?

I'm sure there's lots of practice tape on him, and the Giants know a lot about him that they didn't know a year ago, but it still remains that most of the coaches weren't here last year (two assistants according to Eric's coaching list). the Maras and the scouting dept are still here, but how much contact any of them really had with Webb is unknown.

those who interacted the most with Webb in a football sense are gone. The players are still here.

In comment 13854169 Bill L said:

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Than they know about any qb you could name in the draft?

How much can you know about a QB who hasn't played a competitive football game since 2016 in college and barely worked with the first team depth chart?

Then only thing they can know are his practice habits and personality.

And all the practice tape destroyed, they wouldn’t know *less* because they have the same college info that they have for all the draft qbs. So *anything* they have from the past year is an add on.