Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NYP article has some interesting info on Weston Richburg

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/7/2018 7:55 am
Quote:
The Giants anticipated having Richburg as their starting center for a decade. He was the 43rd pick in 2014 out of Colorado State, and after a year at guard he started 15 games at center in 2015 and 16 more in 2016.

“We thought we had one there,’’ a Giants source said, “but we didn’t.’’

Richburg started the first four games last season, but his run-blocking was suspect. He was forced out with a concussion in Week 5 at Tampa Bay. Richburg never suited up again, and his relationship with the previous coaching staff soured.

Richburg, 26, was ready to be cleared from the concussion protocol for the Oct. 22 game against the Seahawks, but, according to multiple sources, he was informed he was not going to return as the starting center. Undrafted Brett Jones was considered the better option. Without Odell Beckham Jr., the offense was becoming more of a ball-control attack, with D.J. Fluker starting at right guard, and the coaching staff was concerned about Richburg’s weight — he was too light — and his inability to move defensive tackles in a power running game.

Richburg was told he would compete at center and guard as a backup. He chafed at that demotion and, a week later, he was put on season-ending injured reserve.

“I wanted to play, but that’s just the way it turned out,’’ Richburg said following the season.

Giants O-line rebuild could include huge free agent splash - ( New Window )
Too light?  
Bill L : 3/7/2018 7:57 am : link
Brett Jones is bigger?
One other thing I wonder  
Bill L : 3/7/2018 7:59 am : link
is whether Richburg "wasn't something" because of the coaching staff (or type of offense, especially without OBJ), or because htey initially misjudged his talent level?
We’ve read chatter that some guys were just collecting paychecks  
mfsd : 3/7/2018 8:00 am : link
in 2017. It become obvious Bobby Hart was exhibit A...but this article makes you think Richburg was another guy in that category.

Which is a shame. Either way, he’s history.
Dont know if its Richburgs camp that is putting out fake news  
superspynyg : 3/7/2018 8:00 am : link
but what do these other teams see in Richburg that he has multiple suitors?
if anyone was worried that they'd be bringing him back  
giants#1 : 3/7/2018 8:01 am : link
you can now rest those concerns.
I remember hearing that Richburg was ready to come back  
Rjanyg : 3/7/2018 8:04 am : link
And he was pissed the Giants IR'd him.

Jones played better and id expect him to be our starting center. I wonder if DG just tender him or sign him to a longer deal. I still see us drafting a guy in rounds 4-5 like Mason Cole.

Round 2 is a sweet spot for a RG ( Hernandez or Daniels ).
The Giants’ ROI at Center has been horrible for ten years.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/7/2018 8:08 am : link
They overpaid O’Hara, who declined sharply within a year. Then they overpaid Bass, who was healthy for about two months as a Giant (including SB XLVI, fortunately). Then they spent a premium pick on Richburg, who briefly looked like the real deal. To some extent, it’s bad luck. But that’s a lot of bad luck at a position where many teams have found diamonds in the rough.
Baas, that is.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/7/2018 8:09 am : link
My phone has been auto-correcting his name since the day he was signed.
There was another article  
BigBlueHens : 3/7/2018 8:11 am : link
that said that Richburg is the top free agent zone blocking center. If they moved more towards a power run scheme, his size would be a factor. It is becoming clearer and clearer that we have some talent on the roster, but the previous coaching staff were running schemes that did not maximize that talent. I really believe that coaching and play design was so bad, that it did not put the players is a position to succeed.

With Gettleman at the helm, I do not see him wanting smaller offensive lineman like Richburg. He wants hog mollies, these big monsters up front. Shurmer's upside is he maximizes his players potential. Hopefully he uses schemes and designs plays to get some blocking and our receivers open.
Wow the previous coaching staff  
Rflairr : 3/7/2018 8:18 am : link
Was a bunch of pussies. Who knew, so many guys were refusing to suit up, whenever they got pissed
Premium picks  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/7/2018 8:18 am : link
with Pugh/Richberg/Flowers

and none of the 3 have worked out (2 leaving in FA most likely and Flowers, well... ugh)

really, really hurt this team

in other news the sky is blue, right?
I’m shocked  
RobCarpenter : 3/7/2018 8:18 am : link
That one of the OL drafted by Reese has not turned out well.

Within 3 years none of the starting OL will have been drafted by Reese. I’m not even sure that won’t happen in 2018, actually.

The problem was never that Reese didn’t use high round picks on OL. The problem is he drafted the wrong people.
Schwartz starts this by refuting that OL issues weren't addressed  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 3/7/2018 8:21 am : link
I don't believe that was ever an issue. The issue was it was not addressed correctly and the players chosen either proved to be bad (Flowers) or injury prone...both Pugh and Richburg...not to mention Richburg never really developed or regressed. Certainly, if there is one thing I can say about Jones compared to Richburg. Jones competes even if he may not be tremendously talented. I do not see Richburg compete. As for Pugh, I like him, always have, but can you count on him and that is the issue with him.
RE: Too light?  
Victor in CT : 3/7/2018 8:28 am : link
In comment 13852897 Bill L said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is bigger?


he played bigger. Richburg sucks. The never had a stable pocket because he (and Jerry and Pugh) were getting pushed back
Bill. Jones is 2" shorter but 15lbs at least heavier  
idiotsavant : 3/7/2018 8:29 am : link
Think about what it's like to try to push a dude who is 6'2" but 315 or 320.

Looks to wear the giant snacks sized helmet if not larger.

Richburg may have come in too light
Priorities  
BlueinRoch : 3/7/2018 8:29 am : link
But they were all so good at the 3 cone drill.
RE: Too light?  
Blue21 : 3/7/2018 8:29 am : link
In comment 13852897 Bill L said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is bigger?


Jones is listed shorter but about 20 lbs heavier if the Giants website is accurate.
Think about this  
idiotsavant : 3/7/2018 8:33 am : link
We don't blink when a player is 6'6" and 315.

'Big' we think.

But, for a center. 6'---2" and 315 is obviously more solid, more condensed and low leverage which is what you want.
RE: I’m shocked  
mfsd : 3/7/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 13852925 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
That one of the OL drafted by Reese has not turned out well.

Within 3 years none of the starting OL will have been drafted by Reese. I’m not even sure that won’t happen in 2018, actually.

The problem was never that Reese didn’t use high round picks on OL. The problem is he drafted the wrong people.


Not only did we spend 3 premium picks on guys who likely won’t get a second contract with the Giants and are soon to be gone, but we’ve batted .000 with late round picks and UDFAs in recent years.

Hit rate will always be low for guys like that, but you have to find some diamonds in the rough. As we all know, our recent SB teams included Diehl in round 5 and Seubert as a UDFA anchoring the line for years (along with a great pick in Snee and home runs in FA with OHara and McKenzie).

In recent years...Petrus, Herman, Brewer, Mosley, McCants...blech.

Maybe we have something in Chad Wheeler? But to your point, epic failure to rebuild the OL was Reese’s downfall.
I should add Brent Jones as a possible hit  
mfsd : 3/7/2018 8:44 am : link
.
RE: RE: I’m shocked  
AcidTest : 3/7/2018 8:56 am : link
In comment 13852938 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 13852925 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


That one of the OL drafted by Reese has not turned out well.

Within 3 years none of the starting OL will have been drafted by Reese. I’m not even sure that won’t happen in 2018, actually.

The problem was never that Reese didn’t use high round picks on OL. The problem is he drafted the wrong people.



Not only did we spend 3 premium picks on guys who likely won’t get a second contract with the Giants and are soon to be gone, but we’ve batted .000 with late round picks and UDFAs in recent years.

Hit rate will always be low for guys like that, but you have to find some diamonds in the rough. As we all know, our recent SB teams included Diehl in round 5 and Seubert as a UDFA anchoring the line for years (along with a great pick in Snee and home runs in FA with OHara and McKenzie).

In recent years...Petrus, Herman, Brewer, Mosley, McCants...blech.

Maybe we have something in Chad Wheeler? But to your point, epic failure to rebuild the OL was Reese’s downfall.


+!.
Sorry.  
AcidTest : 3/7/2018 8:56 am : link
+1.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it  
Diver_Down : 3/7/2018 9:02 am : link
but the Giants might warrant further scrutiny by the league office of their use of IR. The linked article alludes to Weston being ready to be cleared from the concussion protocol. The independent neurologist would be the person to clear a player not an employee of the team. If the independent neurologist has a paper trail stating that Weston has been cleared, then him being placed on IR for the concussion is a violation. Just because a player doesn't want to compete does not allow a team to stash a player on IR. The player should count against the 53 or be released.

It would be interesting with further scrutiny if it was determined that Fluker's IR'ing was also a violation. I had a hard time believing at the time that a man of his size could no longer play due to a toe injury. No further reports indicated that he received medical treatment. Just seemed like the prior regime were stashing players and padding the IR figures to serve as an excuse when it came time to defend their job.
RE: Priorities  
Beer Man : 3/7/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 13852933 BlueinRoch said:
Quote:
But they were all so good at the 3 cone drill.
LOL
RE: I'm surprised no one has mentioned it  
Beer Man : 3/7/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 13852967 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
but the Giants might warrant further scrutiny by the league office of their use of IR. The linked article alludes to Weston being ready to be cleared from the concussion protocol. The independent neurologist would be the person to clear a player not an employee of the team. If the independent neurologist has a paper trail stating that Weston has been cleared, then him being placed on IR for the concussion is a violation. Just because a player doesn't want to compete does not allow a team to stash a player on IR. The player should count against the 53 or be released.

It would be interesting with further scrutiny if it was determined that Fluker's IR'ing was also a violation. I had a hard time believing at the time that a man of his size could no longer play due to a toe injury. No further reports indicated that he received medical treatment. Just seemed like the prior regime were stashing players and padding the IR figures to serve as an excuse when it came time to defend their job.
Problem is, if there was a violation, then the league would punish the team, even though the old guard responsible for it is gone.
RE: I’m shocked  
M.S. : 3/7/2018 9:29 am : link
In comment 13852925 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
That one of the OL drafted by Reese has not turned out well.

Within 3 years none of the starting OL will have been drafted by Reese. I’m not even sure that won’t happen in 2018, actually.

The problem was never that Reese didn’t use high round picks on OL. The problem is he drafted the wrong people.

Yep... "He drafted the wrong people."

And what was the net result?

3-13 in 2017
Translation  
JonC : 3/7/2018 9:31 am : link
we're moving on.
RE: RE: Priorities  
giantsFC : 3/7/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 13852986 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13852933 BlueinRoch said:


Quote:


But they were all so good at the 3 cone drill.



And back flips!
Jones  
ryanmkeane : 3/7/2018 9:38 am : link
is a decent option but I have a feeling we will take a hard look at the top 3-4 centers in rounds 2-3
RE: Too light?  
Simms11 : 3/7/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 13852897 Bill L said:
Quote:
Brett Jones is bigger?


Jones uses his size better and doesn’t appear to get pushed back in the pocket like Richburg used to. That drive me nuts about him (Richburg).
Drove me not drive.....ugh  
Simms11 : 3/7/2018 9:45 am : link
.
RE: Priorities  
Dr. D : 3/7/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13852933 BlueinRoch said:
Quote:
But they were all so good at the 3 cone drill.

And soon we're going to try to spend a shitload of $ to sign Norwell, who wasn't drafted because of his poor 3 cone (and other combine numbers).

Solid article  
The 12th Man : 3/7/2018 9:58 am : link
the last sentence is the one that excites me and should excite all Giants fans the most.

The anticipation is the 2018 offensive line will look drastically different.
RE: We’ve read chatter that some guys were just collecting paychecks  
Bill L : 3/7/2018 10:10 am : link
In comment 13852903 mfsd said:
Quote:
in 2017. It become obvious Bobby Hart was exhibit A...but this article makes you think Richburg was another guy in that category.

Which is a shame. Either way, he’s history.
It's a little weird to me. I seem to recall a really cool story from his first off-season after his rookie year where he was donw someplace in a Offensive Linemen's training camp. He was there not just working on his physique but also on technique and learning the position. He was even calling out his fellow offensive linemen for not being there or putting in the effort in their craft. The article made it seem like he was not only an intense professional but also a potential leader.

We talked extensively about the article here; does anyone else recall that?
RE: RE: We’ve read chatter that some guys were just collecting paychecks  
Diver_Down : 3/7/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13853098 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13852903 mfsd said:


Quote:


in 2017. It become obvious Bobby Hart was exhibit A...but this article makes you think Richburg was another guy in that category.

Which is a shame. Either way, he’s history.

It's a little weird to me. I seem to recall a really cool story from his first off-season after his rookie year where he was donw someplace in a Offensive Linemen's training camp. He was there not just working on his physique but also on technique and learning the position. He was even calling out his fellow offensive linemen for not being there or putting in the effort in their craft. The article made it seem like he was not only an intense professional but also a potential leader.

We talked extensively about the article here; does anyone else recall that?


Yes, he attended the LeCharles Bently OL clinic which is by invite only.
What would concern me  
ghost718 : 3/7/2018 10:17 am : link
is that Richburg did it for 1 year,you can't take it away from him.

While the guys deciding Richburg was the problem,also thought Geno was the answer.
RE: RE: Priorities  
mfsd : 3/7/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 13853054 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 13852933 BlueinRoch said:


Quote:


But they were all so good at the 3 cone drill.


And soon we're going to try to spend a shitload of $ to sign Norwell, who wasn't drafted because of his poor 3 cone (and other combine numbers).


Haha yup. Makes me excited every time we hear DG talk only about drafting tough smart football players, rather than coming up with some measurable metric at the combine that he thinks beats the system
Anybody else think back to Richburg...  
Racer : 3/7/2018 10:27 am : link
..calling guys out in the offseason for not working hard to get better and want to puke? Between he and Pugh both mouthing off at that point I got suckered into thinking we had an OL with the right attitude. Shame on me.

Do your talking on the field at your next stop, Weston.
RE: Anybody else think back to Richburg...  
2cents : 3/7/2018 10:36 am : link
In comment 13853137 Racer said:
Quote:
..calling guys out in the offseason for not working hard to get better and want to puke? Between he and Pugh both mouthing off at that point I got suckered into thinking we had an OL with the right attitude. Shame on me.

Do your talking on the field at your next stop, Weston.



I was just going to mention this, makes his end with the giants even more strange. Would a guy that felt this way about off season training not want to come back and compete for a starting job? idk the math and the logic doesnt add up to me, a guy that preformed well for a few season just forgets how to play?


Just a thought but could there be strong correlation with team's overall performance? Perhaps a certain coach who forgot how to adopt a game plan, completely crippled our offense and then was summarily run out of town, had more to do with Richburg poor performance then him being 20 lbs lighter then Jones.
RE: Wow the previous coaching staff  
Eman11 : 3/7/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 13852923 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Was a bunch of pussies. Who knew, so many guys were refusing to suit up, whenever they got pissed


I agree the coaching staff sucked, amd I'm not a big Richburg fan but where does it say he refused to suit up?

It says he was "chafed" (pissed, bummed) about not getting his starting spot back automatically and having to compete for that and a guard spot but that's nowhere near refusing to suit up. Plus there's a direct quote from him where he says he wanted to play.

Personally I'm glad he was chafed. I wouldn't want a guy to be happy about losing his spot.

Not for Nothing  
Samiam : 3/7/2018 10:54 am : link
The Giants needed help all over the OL. If both Jones and Richburg were healthy to play, I suspect one of them would have played guard especially when Fluker got hurt and we were playing scrubs.

I once asked Bart Oates about evaluating linemen and he said that you cannot evaluate someone unless you know what the playcall is. To those who criticize Richburg for getting bullrushed, maybe you’re right. Or maybe the play called for a double team and the guard blew the assignment. You can’t tell and that’s certainly true watching on tv
The afternoon guys on the FAN  
St. Jimmy : 3/7/2018 11:14 am : link
we're saying Richburg was a must sign because centers are hard to find. It was a great display of having their finger on the pulse of the Giants.
RE: Not for Nothing  
HomerJones45 : 3/7/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13853188 Samiam said:
Quote:
The Giants needed help all over the OL. If both Jones and Richburg were healthy to play, I suspect one of them would have played guard especially when Fluker got hurt and we were playing scrubs.

I once asked Bart Oates about evaluating linemen and he said that you cannot evaluate someone unless you know what the playcall is. To those who criticize Richburg for getting bullrushed, maybe you’re right. Or maybe the play called for a double team and the guard blew the assignment. You can’t tell and that’s certainly true watching on tv
Notice he got "worse" once McAdoo became HC and fully implemented his for-shit offense.
And everyone was so quick to assasinate Flowers character  
est1986 : 3/7/2018 11:52 am : link
This guys scoffed at being the back up but Jones was playing WAY better than Richburg... I told you all 2 years ago this guy was a one year wonder
Jones is a good back up ..  
Bluesbreaker : 3/7/2018 12:29 pm : link
I wouldn't re-sign Richberg he just lacks the base and power to move DT's out . Have no idea if there is anyone
in we can add in free agency . Seems to be a couple of good
ones in the draft . It's a shame that Flowers and Apple ended up poor choices that high in the draft . Apple to me
was just over rated and the LT spot is a tough position to
gauge but really there were warts all over Flowers just a very bad pick IMO . To me if Barkley is gone we need to move down and get possibly and extra couple of picks .
That would allow us to take two O-line say Nelson and Price
and possibly get a LB like Evans or a guy like Key .also Darius Leonard SC state .
RE: Not for Nothing  
wonderback : 3/7/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13853188 Samiam said:
Quote:
The Giants needed help all over the OL. If both Jones and Richburg were healthy to play, I suspect one of them would have played guard especially when Fluker got hurt and we were playing scrubs.

I once asked Bart Oates about evaluating linemen and he said that you cannot evaluate someone unless you know what the playcall is. To those who criticize Richburg for getting bullrushed, maybe you’re right. Or maybe the play called for a double team and the guard blew the assignment. You can’t tell and that’s certainly true watching on tv


Sorry, you're really wrong here. I don't re-watch tape of the game and it's true that it's hard to isolate on OL play but Richburg constantly got pushed back into the pocket. Over and over again. There was no pocket to step up into. We all conjectured that maybe he was hurt. No one wanted to admit that he simply wasn't strong enough.
RE: RE: Too light?  
GiantTuff1 : 3/7/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13852931 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13852897 Bill L said:


Quote:


Brett Jones is bigger?



he played bigger. Richburg sucks. The never had a stable pocket because he (and Jerry and Pugh) were getting pushed back


This...

Richburg, Pugh, Jerry... well intentioned but came across as soft and finesse players. Played light in the britches.

We need guys with a bulldog's spirit in there, guys who want to maul. Brett Jones has that, even if he doesn't have ideal measurable. I think that's the kind of spirit DG wanted embodied in his hog mollies. Set an ass kicking tone. The other guys just don't have it.
Flowers and Orlando Brown  
VinegarPeppers : 3/7/2018 2:37 pm : link
Closer to two peas in a pod than anyone realized.
'Brett Jones is bigger?'...  
Torrag : 3/7/2018 3:26 pm : link
More to the point, Jones is simply better.
RE: One other thing I wonder  
Matt M. : 3/7/2018 3:53 pm : link
In comment 13852900 Bill L said:
Quote:
is whether Richburg "wasn't something" because of the coaching staff (or type of offense, especially without OBJ), or because htey initially misjudged his talent level?
I think a combo. I think very little of the coaching staff, especially OL coach. How many players under the last regime actually got any better from one year to the next? Really, only Collins in my mind. Certainly nobody on the OL.
Another Reese special.  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/7/2018 3:58 pm : link
.
RE: The Giants’ ROI at Center has been horrible for ten years.  
djm : 3/7/2018 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13852913 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
They overpaid O’Hara, who declined sharply within a year. Then they overpaid Bass, who was healthy for about two months as a Giant (including SB XLVI, fortunately). Then they spent a premium pick on Richburg, who briefly looked like the real deal. To some extent, it’s bad luck. But that’s a lot of bad luck at a position where many teams have found diamonds in the rough.


They've been snake bit at center for as long as I can remember. Seems only fitting that the best center they have ever had in the modern era was Oates, who came from the USFL. O'Hara was a gift from the gods but like you said his peak was only a few years.

Kevin belcher, Brian Williams, dusty Ziegler and now Richburg. That's four legit talents that never saw a second contract here with the Giants. Wtf.

RE: RE: Anybody else think back to Richburg...  
djm : 3/7/2018 7:17 pm : link
In comment 13853158 2cents said:
Quote:
In comment 13853137 Racer said:


Quote:


..calling guys out in the offseason for not working hard to get better and want to puke? Between he and Pugh both mouthing off at that point I got suckered into thinking we had an OL with the right attitude. Shame on me.

Do your talking on the field at your next stop, Weston.




I was just going to mention this, makes his end with the giants even more strange. Would a guy that felt this way about off season training not want to come back and compete for a starting job? idk the math and the logic doesnt add up to me, a guy that preformed well for a few season just forgets how to play?


Just a thought but could there be strong correlation with team's overall performance? Perhaps a certain coach who forgot how to adopt a game plan, completely crippled our offense and then was summarily run out of town, had more to do with Richburg poor performance then him being 20 lbs lighter then Jones.


I've been banging the mcadoo drum for a while now. Players still need to perform and it's unfair to put all the player failures on mcadoo but I do think his failures trickled down to player performance, both in a vacumm and not. I can't stress enough how badly this guy failed here.

I don't care how bad an OL is on paper. The 2016- 2017 Giants offensive performance was inexcusable. Coaching. Period.
RE: RE: The Giants’ ROI at Center has been horrible for ten years.  
giantsFC : 3/7/2018 11:10 pm : link
In comment 13854115 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13852913 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


.

Kevin belcher, Brian Williams, dusty Ziegler and now Richburg. That's four legit talents that never saw a second contract here with the Giants. Wtf.


But didn’t Brian Williams have some crazy eye injury that derailed him?

Was it rich seubert who played center some or it was some other free agent no name who stepped in adequately.
Back to the Corner