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Ogletree has never graded out positive

BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/7/2018 8:11 pm
In any years of his career per PFF.
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Hes a solid linebacker  
sharpshooter66 : 3/7/2018 8:37 pm : link
Who apparently fits Bettchers scheme, hes fast, young, and a vocal leader. No one is expecting a perfect player for a 4 and a 6 rd pick. Hes far better than any linebacker on our roster amd hes a captain. PFF are laughable
I love the topic of PFF  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/7/2018 8:43 pm : link
It is shit when it a Giant player is graded poorly but it is celebrated as gospel when a Giant grades out well.

If I made a post yesterday asking about a hypothetical trade for Ogletree, I guarantee most of you wouldn't be open to the idea of Ogletree and be parroting his PFF grades.

PFF is a good tool if you understand how the grading system works and understand its flaws. It is not the end all be all stat on a player.
you can  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/7/2018 8:48 pm : link
see the cover skills in his highlights...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0RxnaBsxY - ( New Window )
Heís not great vs the run  
WillVAB : 3/7/2018 8:49 pm : link
But he also hasnít played behind a front 4 like ours that can keep bodies off of him.

I think heíll be a breath of fresh air considering the trash the Giants have trottedout at the position the last 6 years.

Gettleman is really good at pro evaluation. Think about all of the FAs the Giants brought in before he left for Carolina. Not too many duds.
The PFF LB grades are weird  
Breeze_94 : 3/7/2018 9:01 pm : link
I remember a couple of games where Munson graded out very well, that doesn't make him a better player than Ogletree.

In 2016, Keenan Robinson graded out poorly compared to the other guys on our roster but I thought he was our best LB.

I guess his low grade is because he missed a bunch of tackles last year, but that is something he can work on. He is an impact player because of his speed and instincts at LB.
RE: I love the topic of PFF  
arcarsenal : 3/7/2018 9:01 pm : link
In comment 13854228 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
It is shit when it a Giant player is graded poorly but it is celebrated as gospel when a Giant grades out well.

If I made a post yesterday asking about a hypothetical trade for Ogletree, I guarantee most of you wouldn't be open to the idea of Ogletree and be parroting his PFF grades.

PFF is a good tool if you understand how the grading system works and understand its flaws. It is not the end all be all stat on a player.


It's also possible that some people just put more stock in it than others.

It doesn't have to be the same people treating it as "gospel" when it's favorable and calling it worthless when it isn't.

Of course, there's always that evasive poster called "BBI" who seems to be all-encompassing...
It has been mentioned a few times  
robbieballs2003 : 3/7/2018 9:02 pm : link
That Bettcher runs his D where one of the middle backers is basically like a big safety that can either blitz or cover backs and TEs. People were ready to put Collins in this role. So, doesn't this make sense with what Bettcher wants at the position and isn't this playing to the strengths of th6js player? What is not to like here? He sound like a perfecr fit.

And lets not get caught up in a 4-3 WILL or inside backer in a 3-4. There are so many variations of defenses that Bettcher's 3-4 is not the same as Wade Phillips' 3-4. Bettcher's money backer position sound awfully like a WILL backer in a 4-3.

And, finally, isn't it about time we get a player that can matchup with TEs so they don't destroy us for about the 6th time in 7 years or so?
Pretty good value for  
Dave on the UWS : 3/7/2018 9:18 pm : link
A 4/5 Rd pick ( which is what he's costing them).
Got to love how he is always look to strip the ball out  
rasbutant : 3/7/2018 9:40 pm : link
I don't know what position he played last year, but watching the highlight tape Eric posted. It looks like he either was covering the RB or Blitzing. Couple times he dropped into the center zone. Looks like most of the time they had 5 guys on the line and 2 lbs?

I would think that describes a MLB?
People need to understand..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/7/2018 9:41 pm : link
the major flaws in PFF's system.

- First off, they grade play by play on a +1 to -1 scale
- They are graded by pretty much armchair fans, and rarely audited by the vast bench of coaches they claim rate players.
- If the grader can't tell what a guy did on a play, he gets a zero

In many ways, think if a JerseyJoe watched film and graded a guy - and that boils down what PFF realistically represents.

Yet people eat it up. Good or ban ratings, they are nearly always incorrect.
People donít listen  
Carl in CT : 3/7/2018 9:41 pm : link
To stupid comments.
RE: Got to love how he is always look to strip the ball out  
rasbutant : 3/7/2018 9:41 pm : link
In comment 13854319 rasbutant said:
Quote:
I don't know what position he played last year, but watching the highlight tape Eric posted. It looks like he either was covering the RB or Blitzing. Couple times he dropped into the center zone. Looks like most of the time they had 5 guys on the line and 2 lbs?

I would think that describes a MLB?


Oh, sorry, it was actually the video that came on automatically after the one Eric posted.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: odd  
Peppers : 3/7/2018 9:45 pm : link
In comment 13854194 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
given that Ogletree was voted All-Rookie in 2013 and second-team All-Pro in 2016.


That carries a little more weight.
The fact that he has great coverage skills  
prdave73 : 3/7/2018 9:45 pm : link
is all you need to know. He can play the run and pass, what more do you want? With all these new types of offense you want LB's that can cover. Look at the Eagles, their LB's aren't the best run stoppers but they have speed and can cover!
I don't understand why people are complaining about this pickup  
nyjuggernaut2 : 3/7/2018 9:50 pm : link
Giants clearly needed to strengthen their LB corp and adding Ogletree for a 4th round pick is a no-brainer IMO. He's an improvement over any LB that was on the roster last season.
He's worth a 4th and a 6th.  
FStubbs : 3/7/2018 9:51 pm : link
That's the price we paid for him.
Who cares  
HomerJones45 : 3/7/2018 10:01 pm : link
he's an improvement over the collection of clowns we've had the last 4 or 5 years.
He's well worth the picks, the question is whether he's worth  
Ira : 3/7/2018 10:10 pm : link
the contract. It's a little high, IMO, but not out of the ballpark.
RE: He's worth a 4th and a 6th.  
short lease : 3/7/2018 10:11 pm : link
In comment 13854340 FStubbs said:
Quote:
That's the price we paid for him.


Boom - Bottom line right there. And, he maybe the best LB on the team right now (for a 4th and a 6th).
Does PFF..  
bw in dc : 3/7/2018 10:16 pm : link
Watch or have access to the All-21?

And how do you grade a player if you donít know the specific offensive or defensive play?
Ugh...  
bw in dc : 3/7/2018 10:17 pm : link
All 22...
.  
BigBlue4You09 : 3/7/2018 10:19 pm : link
ďSince 2013, Alec Ogletree is the only player in the NFL with 500+ tackles, 10+ forced fumbles, and 40+ passes defensedĒ
The most underrated thing aobut Ogletree  
Marty866b : 3/7/2018 10:20 pm : link
This team desperately needs leaders and players who are good in the locker room. This player fits the bill and at that cost it is a really good deal for the Giants.
RE: Does PFF..  
arcarsenal : 3/7/2018 10:20 pm : link
In comment 13854383 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Watch or have access to the All-21?

And how do you grade a player if you donít know the specific offensive or defensive play?


Even if they do, I have a feeling a lot of their guys don't quite understand each player's responsibilities in each given snap and are incorrectly guessing on a handful of them.

I appreciate what they're trying to do - but it's severely flawed analysis.
He is so far and away the best cover LB we have  
Aaroninma : 3/7/2018 10:28 pm : link
Im so tired of seeing LB who cant take a freaking drop!
RE: The most underrated thing aobut Ogletree  
Peppers : 3/7/2018 10:29 pm : link
In comment 13854387 Marty866b said:
Quote:
This team desperately needs leaders and players who are good in the locker room. This player fits the bill and at that cost it is a really good deal for the Giants.


Very good point.
RE: RE: Does PFF..  
bw in dc : 3/7/2018 10:30 pm : link
In comment 13854388 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13854383 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Watch or have access to the All-21?

And how do you grade a player if you donít know the specific offensive or defensive play?



Even if they do, I have a feeling a lot of their guys don't quite understand each player's responsibilities in each given snap and are incorrectly guessing on a handful of them.

I appreciate what they're trying to do - but it's severely flawed analysis.


Exactly. Corner thinks he has safety help over the top. He lets the receiver go and...TD. No safety help because the safety fell asleep at the wheel. How does the PFF evaluator know who had what on that play?
What is PFF?  
giantsFC : 3/7/2018 10:49 pm : link
Sorry Iím new to the party. Donít have a clue what that stands for.

Fantasy football?
RE: What is PFF?  
bw in dc : 3/7/2018 10:57 pm : link
In comment 13854423 giantsFC said:
Quote:
Sorry Iím new to the party. Donít have a clue what that stands for.

Fantasy football?


Pro Football Focus. They basically grade out every position for every game.

Cris Collinsworth, I think, is the majority owner...
RE: RE: What is PFF?  
giantsFC : 3/7/2018 11:04 pm : link
In comment 13854430 bw in dc said:
Quote:




Pro Football Focus.

Cris Collinsworth, I think, is the majority owner...


I am cracking up about this. But since I have no clue about PFF I am worried you didnít mean it as a Knock on collinsworth
giantsFC...  
bw in dc : 3/7/2018 11:07 pm : link
No, just relaying what I know...
Let's be realistic about Ogletree  
AdamBrag : 3/8/2018 12:00 am : link
He's been very inconsistent, but if he can gain consistency, he's a top 3 LB in the NFL. Also, he played out of position last year.
RE: RE: BigBlueDownTheShore  
The 12th Man : 3/8/2018 12:06 am : link
In comment 13854213 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13854204 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


He has averaged almost 10 pass breakups per year...which is a lot for a linebacker.



Not when you consider heís played 95% of the defensive snaps for his entire career.

For the record I like the pickup and no I donít take PFF to heart, but maybe we should tamper our expectations just a bit.


Name 1 LB on or current roster or one that was on last years roster that is better than Ogletree? Case closed he has already improved a position of need.
Giants paying him $10 mill next season  
KWALL2 : 3/8/2018 1:45 am : link
NYG must have a different grade then the PFF jokers
hes a nice fit next to Goodson.  
Tuckrule : 3/8/2018 5:28 am : link
Goodson is that thumper who stuffs the run. Alec is super athletic in the Michael boley mold. Great trade. Young guy team captain for a few years and heís a playmaker at the LB position
could be antonio pierce 2.0  
msh : 3/8/2018 5:47 am : link
most people thought he was merely ok when the giants signed him about time we got some firepower in the LB corp he can cover the TE and tackle they have needed that for far too long
its a great pickup and worth the picks they paid to make it happen
watched the highlights  
Allen in CNJ : 3/8/2018 5:54 am : link
he's a very good weak side linebacker... great in coverage, and can be a playmaker... On some of those "highlight" I really didn't like his technique/positioning when it came to tackling but that can be fixed...

A playmaker at LB though?? this is something the Giants have not had out of the LB position in some time!
He Is The Best LB We Have Right Now  
pa_giant_fan : 3/8/2018 6:19 am : link
Well worth the price of the 4th & 6th rd picks
He was picked up for a song and a dance...  
KingBlue : 3/8/2018 6:21 am : link
He immediately improves our defense and upgrades our LB corp. This was a good pickup. Well done Gettleman!
We haven't had a lber  
Doomster : 3/8/2018 6:29 am : link
who could make more than one play in a game, in so long, this guy is going to look like all world to Giant fans...
RE: RE: odd  
Joey in VA : 3/8/2018 8:25 am : link
In comment 13854200 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13854194 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


given that Ogletree was voted All-Rookie in 2013 and second-team All-Pro in 2016.



He graded out -1.8 his rookie year and the only time he came close to that was when he beat it in 2015 when he graded out at -1.5.

For his career he is -28.3

Some seasons he graded out good in run defense and others he graded out well innpass rush. He has never graded out well in pass coverage.
Are you a native English speaker? I'm not trying to be a dick, it's an honest question. You seem to have trouble with basic conjugation and tense repeatedly, something common for those who learned English as a second or third or whatever language.
Put him at his best position, 4-3 WILL  
JonC : 3/8/2018 8:34 am : link
keep him clean and let's see what he can do.

He's not at his best playing inside where he needs to engage and shed blockers, he needs to run free.
He is  
Joey in VA : 3/8/2018 8:34 am : link
An off the ball LB who can cover and chase. In a 3-4 your two ILBs act as WLBs, usually offset and off the ball so they can see, diagnose and get to the play. One is usually given an interior gap on what is expected to be play side and the other plays wider and often deeper. This is not the "out of position" thing I have seen, it's in fact the ideal fit for his skill set.

His biggest issue last year was that one of his 5 technique DEs was Aaron Donald who was set free to get upfield and wasn't asked to two or 1.5 gap run lanes as a DE in this alignment usually is. Wade Phillips plays to his players' strengths and you let Donald do his thing regardless of alignment and other guys have to pick up the run slack. Ogletree is simply not a take on LB, he needs protection and should have that with the DL talent we have. He's not a world beater but he can run and chase and he's a vocal leader.
I'd rather use DGGM than the questionable PFF  
TheMick7 : 3/8/2018 8:41 am : link
.
RE: you can  
Simms11 : 3/8/2018 9:26 am : link
In comment 13854232 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
see the cover skills in his highlights... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0RxnaBsxY - ( New Window )


When was the last time we had a LBer that could run like that? Heís got nice speed.
RE: Ugh...  
Racer : 3/8/2018 9:56 am : link
In comment 13854384 bw in dc said:
Quote:
All 22...


Well, it WAS all 21 when Apple was in there.......
Tree  
TGATE GRLMST : 3/8/2018 11:22 am : link
My favorite thing about the trade
Some pissed off Ram teammates got vocal about it
Alec Ogeltree  
Angus : 3/8/2018 1:55 pm : link
Looks like a big Defensive Back
RE: Tree  
arcarsenal : 3/8/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13854875 TGATE GRLMST said:
Quote:
My favorite thing about the trade
Some pissed off Ram teammates got vocal about it


Gurley was the most vocally opposed - but a lot of that has to do with the fact that they played together @ UGA, I'm guessing they're pretty close.
I saw more highlights in the video Eric linked  
Dr. D : 3/8/2018 4:03 pm : link
from Ogletree than I've seen from all our LBs for the last 5 years combined.
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