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Huge difference in Giants' FO...

Thatís Gold, Jerry : 3/8/2018 11:55 am
I know it's early and I am not basing this on the quality of the moves yet but, for us as fans, there is no question there is a HUGE difference between the way Gettleman operates and the way Jerry Reese operated.

I don't know about anyone else but I see a more aggressive front office that has acknowledged our weaknesses and is prepared to attack them. Personally, I love it. I find there seems to be a lot more information available to fans and it seems, finally, the front office is seeing things the way most of us have seen them for years and are doing something about it.

I say kudos to Mr. Gettleman so far.
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Meh  
muhajir : 3/8/2018 12:51 pm : link
Too early to tell.
Yeah...  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 1:03 pm : link
hopefully this FO produces better results than two Super Bowl victories in a decade.
Reese has traded for LBs.  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/8/2018 1:11 pm : link
To me what seems different about Gettleman and co is they seem to be more open about discussing their approach to things. Jerry became more and more guarded as time went on and relied on the same stock answers.

I want to see what happens with the oline and draft before i start getting overly - - - - - well giddie
This is all very exciting  
81_Great_Dane : 3/8/2018 1:15 pm : link
but if Ogletree isn't as good as we hope, or if the free agents DG signs fizzle, or if the draft class is meh, or if he drafts the wrong QB, the honeymoon is going to be mighty short.
Emotions are a choice  
GiantGrit : 3/8/2018 1:42 pm : link
If someone has a differing opinion there is no need to get upset. Even if it is a shitty take. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Whats the point in getting worked up over an online fan forum? Such a waste of energy.
Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
Brown Recluse : 3/8/2018 1:56 pm : link
He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.
My bad  
GiantGrit : 3/8/2018 1:56 pm : link
wrong thread.
RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13855218 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.


Yeah... cuz Eli won those two Super Bowls by himself. He didn't get a huge assist from his defense as well. A defense that Reese played a major part in building. What never gets mentioned is how injuries played a huge role in how the roster deteriorated during his tenure.

Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.
There is a definite conceptual difference  
Biteymax22 : 3/8/2018 2:17 pm : link
between the way Gettleman envisions building a team and Reese did. Reese had been quoted many times referring to the game as "basketball on turf" meaning a fast paced game dominated by skill and skill positions.

Gettleman seems to envision football as a game played and won by toughness and grit rather than skill.

You can argue all day about which approach is correct, but what is hard to argue is that they are two different ways of thinking which require different approaches to assembling your team.
The 2011 Super Bowl was a huge fluke.  
Mike from SI : 3/8/2018 2:19 pm : link
It only looks less flukish because we did something similar in 2007. But that 2007 team was genuinely good, as evidenced by the fact that we were the best regular season team in football in 2008.

I love the 2011 run and I could be wrong.
I just don't  
NYBEN1963 : 3/8/2018 3:00 pm : link
see the need to constantly bash Jerry Reese... a guy that bled blue for almost a quarter of a century. I guess everyone forgot the signing of Michael Boley who played a huge part in the 2011 playoff run.
2011  
gm7b5 : 3/8/2018 3:06 pm : link
was not a fluke. when good players raise their game a notch above their regular season, come together as a team, and join four guys playing unreal, best football of their lives(jpp,eli,cruz,nicks) you can win a title.
RE: RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
Brown Recluse : 3/8/2018 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13855235 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13855218 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.



Yeah... cuz Eli won those two Super Bowls by himself. He didn't get a huge assist from his defense as well. A defense that Reese played a major part in building. What never gets mentioned is how injuries played a huge role in how the roster deteriorated during his tenure.

Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.


There are always positives to take away from situations. He had a good track record in the first round but how much credit should he really get for making good picks in the first round of the draft? Those are the easy ones. The defense had its moments at times and yes, injuries did play a factor. But Reese was also reactive, generally speaking, rather than being proactive in fixing holes and ensuring there was enough depth on the roster to compensate for some of those injuries. How many players throughout Reeses tenure have moved on to successful careers with other teams? Very few. Jay Bromley (now a FA, soon out of the league) and Andre Williams are perfect examples.
There may be a difference, but I'm not convinced one is better  
barens : 3/8/2018 3:50 pm : link
than the other. Reese had some really bad luck with injuries, freak accidents(the LSU safety), and some offensive linemen that just didn't work out. Plus, as much as i like Eli, it helps when you have a top tier quarterback.
Will wait for Coughlin's book, if he  
TMS : 3/8/2018 4:15 pm : link
ever writes one, about Reese and Ross and the decline of the Giants because of poor personnel selection and ELI's screwing.
Everything that the fired GM did was bad  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/8/2018 5:33 pm : link
Everything that the new guy has done is totally different and good.


Gettleman  
ryanmkeane : 3/8/2018 5:45 pm : link
has yet to draft a player as the Giants GM. Reese drafted multiple pro bowl players, had some really good drafts, and won two SBs as the GM in 10 seasons. Love the change in tone so far, but let's pump the brakes a bit.
RE: The 2011 Super Bowl was a huge fluke.  
mfsd : 3/8/2018 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13855264 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
It only looks less flukish because we did something similar in 2007. But that 2007 team was genuinely good, as evidenced by the fact that we were the best regular season team in football in 2008.

I love the 2011 run and I could be wrong.


Don't mean to argue, but I hate characterizing 2011 as a fluke. That was a damn good team that was banged up early, managed to get healthy down the stretch and got hot as the right time.

Dominant? No, not at all. But I really bristle at the perception that's set in that the 2011 was a mediocre team that pulled of a fluke run.

I'll put the version of the 2011 Giants that stepped on the field in the playoffs in Green Bay and San Francisco against the best teams of the era and take my chances
RE: RE: RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13855415 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13855235 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13855218 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.



Yeah... cuz Eli won those two Super Bowls by himself. He didn't get a huge assist from his defense as well. A defense that Reese played a major part in building. What never gets mentioned is how injuries played a huge role in how the roster deteriorated during his tenure.

Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.



There are always positives to take away from situations. He had a good track record in the first round but how much credit should he really get for making good picks in the first round of the draft? Those are the easy ones. The defense had its moments at times and yes, injuries did play a factor. But Reese was also reactive, generally speaking, rather than being proactive in fixing holes and ensuring there was enough depth on the roster to compensate for some of those injuries. How many players throughout Reeses tenure have moved on to successful careers with other teams? Very few. Jay Bromley (now a FA, soon out of the league) and Andre Williams are perfect examples.


Iíve seen it stated repeatedly against Reese Ďhow many of his players that left went on to have good careers?í. My question to that would be, how many should he let leave in order to prove heís a good GM (as if winning not one but two SBs arenít enough)? Isnít it better that he managed to keep the better players heís brought in instead of letting them leave? He gets slammed for allowing multiple DTs leave the team and now heís getting slammed for not allowing enough good players to leave.

He canít win. Like I said, he gets no credit for the success they enjoyed under his watch but a HUGE part of the blame for the failures. Meanwhile, you dare mention anything negative about Coughlin and most here are ready to fight. Just doesnít seem very fair to me. I understand and agree that it was time to go... I wouldnít even put up too much of a fight with those that say he shouldíve been let go with Coughlin (even though at the time I thought he deserved an opportunity to pick his own coach... which in hindsight was a mistake). But the hatred and resentment shown towards Reese is a little over the top if you ask me. I havenít commented on it much because I can understand the anger many have towards him... but itís just crazy to me to see the very same people who sing Coughlinís praises slam Reese unmercifully.
RE: Reese was the GM when the Giants won 2 Super Bowls  
Rflairr : 3/8/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13854981 arniefez said:
Quote:
But he didn't put anything in the case. He was a passenger far from the bus driver.


LOL this doesn't even deserve a response. You don't have to like Reese. But you don't have to be stupid either
T-Bone..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/8/2018 6:30 pm : link
dead on.

Quote:
Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.


It is sort of the same phenomenon where people love Spags but act like Fewell was an absolute moron, even though both won rings and one guy wasn't head of 3 historically poor defenses. Like 3 defenses in the BOTTOM 10 of all time!
RE: RE: RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/8/2018 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13855415 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
How many players throughout Reeses tenure have moved on to successful careers with other teams? Very few. Jay Bromley (now a FA, soon out of the league) and Andre Williams are perfect examples.


What a loaded question. How many Reese draft picks survived health-wise to have a career?

RE: RE: Reese was the GM when the Giants won 2 Super Bowls  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 6:54 pm : link
In comment 13855590 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13854981 arniefez said:


Quote:


But he didn't put anything in the case. He was a passenger far from the bus driver.



LOL this doesn't even deserve a response. You don't have to like Reese. But you don't have to be stupid either


I didnít even see that post but thatís exactly the kind of stuff Iím talking about. How da hell is the man who played a major role in building the team just Ďa passengerí?
RE: T-Bone..  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 6:54 pm : link
In comment 13855597 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
dead on.



Quote:


Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.



It is sort of the same phenomenon where people love Spags but act like Fewell was an absolute moron, even though both won rings and one guy wasn't head of 3 historically poor defenses. Like 3 defenses in the BOTTOM 10 of all time!


Spot on Fats!
RE: RE: RE: Reese was the GM when the Giants won 2 Super Bowls  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/8/2018 6:55 pm : link
In comment 13855618 T-Bone said:
Quote:
How da hell is the man who played a major role in building the team just Ďa passengerí?


When the intent is a subtle way to preach for tom coughlin
I'll Believe  
lax counsel : 3/8/2018 7:28 pm : link
It when I see it with this franchise l. So many bad decisions over the past half decade, I'm not willing to give DG the benefit of the doubt. First and foremost, they need to identify the next franchise qb. They have an opportunity to do that right now. Go do it. Then fix the oline.
Not a Reese-hater but looking at the poor quality of this roster  
Jimmy Googs : 3/8/2018 7:39 pm : link
and the absolute abomination we are in several areas like OL, LB and RB, it is difficult to not give him a lot of blame.

And the injury excuse goes both ways as he also never had to worry about a QB change or missing starts from Eli... ever.


RE: Not a Reese-hater but looking at the poor quality of this roster  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 8:13 pm : link
In comment 13855651 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and the absolute abomination we are in several areas like OL, LB and RB, it is difficult to not give him a lot of blame.

And the injury excuse goes both ways as he also never had to worry about a QB change or missing starts from Eli... ever.



I think thatís fair. Of course he deserves the lionís share of the blame for the teamís state... particularly when it comes to the roster.

My point is that he doesnít deserve ALL of the blame or dismissed as a Ďpassenger Ď on the bus.
Yep, I agree  
Jimmy Googs : 3/8/2018 8:25 pm : link
T-bone
ah remember the days of in Reese we trust and  
gtt350 : 3/8/2018 8:55 pm : link
all year baby
It's totally fair to assign him a share of the blame  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/8/2018 9:05 pm : link
I don't think any sober-minded person would argue in good faith that it's unfair.
RE: RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
trueblueinpw : 3/8/2018 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13855235 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13855218 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.



Yeah... cuz Eli won those two Super Bowls by himself. He didn't get a huge assist from his defense as well. A defense that Reese played a major part in building. What never gets mentioned is how injuries played a huge role in how the roster deteriorated during his tenure.

Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.


Agree. And good to see you Bone man. Hope the fam is good!
Whaddup trueblue!  
T-Bone : 3/8/2018 10:15 pm : link
Everything is going well. Tryin to raise two kids only two years apart means I have absolutely no time to myself anymore... but I wouldnít trade it for the world. Still... itís exhausting.

Hope everything is going well with you and yours sir.
Gettleman,  
sharpshooter66 : 3/9/2018 3:24 am : link
I think is a better evaluator of talent, he watches a ton of tape, and seems more peraonally involved in scouting players. A front office job in the NFL is the same as a coaching job in that it is results oriented. He could do a great job,put in a ton of work,pick the very best players available, and a few fluke injuries can tear his house down in a minute.

With that all said i think that DG has a way of building teams from the inside out, starting on both lines, and though he will certainly value certain positions more than others like any other GM, I think that by focusing on good solid depth on the OL and DL we will have less of a chance of losing entire seasons based on a few freak injuries.
You nailed it  
NikkiMac : 3/9/2018 7:42 am : link
T bone !
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
Brown Recluse : 3/9/2018 7:51 am : link
In comment 13855579 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13855415 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13855235 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13855218 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.



Yeah... cuz Eli won those two Super Bowls by himself. He didn't get a huge assist from his defense as well. A defense that Reese played a major part in building. What never gets mentioned is how injuries played a huge role in how the roster deteriorated during his tenure.

Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.



There are always positives to take away from situations. He had a good track record in the first round but how much credit should he really get for making good picks in the first round of the draft? Those are the easy ones. The defense had its moments at times and yes, injuries did play a factor. But Reese was also reactive, generally speaking, rather than being proactive in fixing holes and ensuring there was enough depth on the roster to compensate for some of those injuries. How many players throughout Reeses tenure have moved on to successful careers with other teams? Very few. Jay Bromley (now a FA, soon out of the league) and Andre Williams are perfect examples.



Iíve seen it stated repeatedly against Reese Ďhow many of his players that left went on to have good careers?í. My question to that would be, how many should he let leave in order to prove heís a good GM (as if winning not one but two SBs arenít enough)? Isnít it better that he managed to keep the better players heís brought in instead of letting them leave? He gets slammed for allowing multiple DTs leave the team and now heís getting slammed for not allowing enough good players to leave.

He canít win. Like I said, he gets no credit for the success they enjoyed under his watch but a HUGE part of the blame for the failures. Meanwhile, you dare mention anything negative about Coughlin and most here are ready to fight. Just doesnít seem very fair to me. I understand and agree that it was time to go... I wouldnít even put up too much of a fight with those that say he shouldíve been let go with Coughlin (even though at the time I thought he deserved an opportunity to pick his own coach... which in hindsight was a mistake). But the hatred and resentment shown towards Reese is a little over the top if you ask me. I havenít commented on it much because I can understand the anger many have towards him... but itís just crazy to me to see the very same people who sing Coughlinís praises slam Reese unmercifully.


I'm not angry with him and I don't *resent* him. I just dont't think he did a very good job. It started to become really evident what was happening in 2011. He had only been the GM for 3 years going into that season and you could already see how certain areas of the team weren't being addressed correctly and depth was becoming an issue. Its easy to counter that and say they won a Super Bowl that season, but that team was full of players on the back end of their career with nothing behind them - and thats what I'm referring to when I say that the issues were becoming apparent. And as those players left or retired, the team just got worse and worse overall because Jerry Reese and his staff were unable to properly funnel in young talent.

And recall the safety disaster in 2009. Granted the entire defense was bad that year and the team was going nowhere, but he went into the season with Kenny Phillips and Michael Johnson - and the only depth behind them was CC Brown, who quite possibly put out one of the worst performances I've ever seen. By the time they decided to bring in some help, they were left with the likes of Aaron Rouse.

This isn't me nitpicking. Its simply one example of what was a pattern with how Reese built his rosters and failed to backfill with adequate depth and young talent. The offensive line. The linebacking corps. The tight end position. Even the defensive line at times as far as depth is concerned. And he held onto medicore players too long. He was pretty good at drafting players in rounds 1 and 2 for the most part. But in my mind, with the overabundance of information out there today - pretty much anyone should be fairly successful picking talent in the early rounds. You and I could do it. We've got posters on this board with as good a track record as Reese in their scouting reports when it comes to the top prospects and they don't get paid millions to do it. Everything else about his drafts were very unimpressive.

As far as Coughlin is concerned, his time had come and gone as well. I don't make any excuses for him either.
RE: T-Bone..  
Bill L : 3/9/2018 7:52 am : link
In comment 13855597 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
dead on.



Quote:


Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.



It is sort of the same phenomenon where people love Spags but act like Fewell was an absolute moron, even though both won rings and one guy wasn't head of 3 historically poor defenses. Like 3 defenses in the BOTTOM 10 of all time!
i think a lot of it is less Jerry and more just people. ďGrass is greenerĒ or whatever hackneyed expression you want to use. We get tired and see as stale what we have and we like shiny things. We see our wives as only nags and focus on the wrinkles, while ignoring how the children get fed and the house functions because we think the middle-aged frau in the make-up and leopard pants is kind of cute.
Not that there werenít problems and arenít flaws  
Bill L : 3/9/2018 7:53 am : link
But you dwell on them while failing to remember or recognize the positives.
"Middle..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/9/2018 7:56 am : link
aged frau"???

I just picture a frumpy lady named Helga.

Give me a MILF named Tiffany with yoga pants!
You live in the south  
Bill L : 3/9/2018 8:01 am : link
Up here, we have to fish from a different pond.
The Reese defense  
PaulN : 3/9/2018 9:10 am : link
You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.
RE: The Reese defense  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/9/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 13855924 PaulN said:
Quote:
You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.


Here's another example of people leaving out important details just to fit a story.

Maybe try to remember how many rookies (read: players who had nothing to do with Ernie Accorsi) had a significant imprint on the success of that team.
They traded for an OLB  
JonC : 3/9/2018 9:15 am : link
and not much else to go on so far.

Confirmation bias ...
RE: RE: The Reese defense  
Brown Recluse : 3/9/2018 9:46 am : link
In comment 13855934 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13855924 PaulN said:


Quote:


You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.



Here's another example of people leaving out important details just to fit a story.

Maybe try to remember how many rookies (read: players who had nothing to do with Ernie Accorsi) had a significant imprint on the success of that team.


Since we're splitting hairs, they actually did have *something* to do with Ernie Accorsi because it was his department that scouted and evaluated them throughout the season. Does Reese get credit for making the final decision on draft day? Absolutely. But that was a transition year, just as this one is for Dave Gettleman. We will see what happens.

Unfortunately for Reese, he never reached that level of success in his drafts again. You have to wonder what changed.


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Jerry Reese was not a good GM.  
T-Bone : 3/9/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13855837 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13855579 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13855415 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13855235 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13855218 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


He won two Super Bowls with Accorsi's QB.

His drafts overall, were bad.

The talent on his rosters eroded over time (minus a few patches here and there) until the team became one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league...borderline Cleveland Browns territory.

I cringe at the thought of Jerry Reese being in charge of finding our next QB. Thank God that never happened.



Yeah... cuz Eli won those two Super Bowls by himself. He didn't get a huge assist from his defense as well. A defense that Reese played a major part in building. What never gets mentioned is how injuries played a huge role in how the roster deteriorated during his tenure.

Reese's time here was up. Can't argue with that and wouldn't. But it's funny how he continues to get NO credit for his part in building those Super Bowl teams.



There are always positives to take away from situations. He had a good track record in the first round but how much credit should he really get for making good picks in the first round of the draft? Those are the easy ones. The defense had its moments at times and yes, injuries did play a factor. But Reese was also reactive, generally speaking, rather than being proactive in fixing holes and ensuring there was enough depth on the roster to compensate for some of those injuries. How many players throughout Reeses tenure have moved on to successful careers with other teams? Very few. Jay Bromley (now a FA, soon out of the league) and Andre Williams are perfect examples.



Iíve seen it stated repeatedly against Reese Ďhow many of his players that left went on to have good careers?í. My question to that would be, how many should he let leave in order to prove heís a good GM (as if winning not one but two SBs arenít enough)? Isnít it better that he managed to keep the better players heís brought in instead of letting them leave? He gets slammed for allowing multiple DTs leave the team and now heís getting slammed for not allowing enough good players to leave.

He canít win. Like I said, he gets no credit for the success they enjoyed under his watch but a HUGE part of the blame for the failures. Meanwhile, you dare mention anything negative about Coughlin and most here are ready to fight. Just doesnít seem very fair to me. I understand and agree that it was time to go... I wouldnít even put up too much of a fight with those that say he shouldíve been let go with Coughlin (even though at the time I thought he deserved an opportunity to pick his own coach... which in hindsight was a mistake). But the hatred and resentment shown towards Reese is a little over the top if you ask me. I havenít commented on it much because I can understand the anger many have towards him... but itís just crazy to me to see the very same people who sing Coughlinís praises slam Reese unmercifully.



I'm not angry with him and I don't *resent* him. I just dont't think he did a very good job. It started to become really evident what was happening in 2011. He had only been the GM for 3 years going into that season and you could already see how certain areas of the team weren't being addressed correctly and depth was becoming an issue. Its easy to counter that and say they won a Super Bowl that season, but that team was full of players on the back end of their career with nothing behind them - and thats what I'm referring to when I say that the issues were becoming apparent. And as those players left or retired, the team just got worse and worse overall because Jerry Reese and his staff were unable to properly funnel in young talent.

And recall the safety disaster in 2009. Granted the entire defense was bad that year and the team was going nowhere, but he went into the season with Kenny Phillips and Michael Johnson - and the only depth behind them was CC Brown, who quite possibly put out one of the worst performances I've ever seen. By the time they decided to bring in some help, they were left with the likes of Aaron Rouse.

This isn't me nitpicking. Its simply one example of what was a pattern with how Reese built his rosters and failed to backfill with adequate depth and young talent. The offensive line. The linebacking corps. The tight end position. Even the defensive line at times as far as depth is concerned. And he held onto medicore players too long. He was pretty good at drafting players in rounds 1 and 2 for the most part. But in my mind, with the overabundance of information out there today - pretty much anyone should be fairly successful picking talent in the early rounds. You and I could do it. We've got posters on this board with as good a track record as Reese in their scouting reports when it comes to the top prospects and they don't get paid millions to do it. Everything else about his drafts were very unimpressive.

As far as Coughlin is concerned, his time had come and gone as well. I don't make any excuses for him either.


Honestly Brown... if you don't hate or resent him... you're not really one of the guys I'm referring to then. What I will say is that you seem to still be belittling the job he did while here by saying things such as:

Quote:
He was pretty good at drafting players in rounds 1 and 2 for the most part. But in my mind, with the overabundance of information out there today - pretty much anyone should be fairly successful picking talent in the early rounds. You and I could do it. We've got posters on this board with as good a track record as Reese in their scouting reports when it comes to the top prospects and they don't get paid millions to do it.


There are teams that can't seem to get it together when it comes to drafting in the first two rounds and those teams have professional GMs getting paid millions of dollars to do it as well.

Also, I'd just like to add regarding the 'depth' issues... this team for about the past decade+... up until recently... had a very bad habit of having entire units wiped out due to injury. One year it was the CB position... the next year it'd be the LB position (actually, this position seemed to ALWAYS struggle with injuries)... and some years it was the OL unit. And as we all know in today's NFL, you're lucky if you have a competent backup... much less a good one. It's kind of hard to field a competitive team when you're starting your sixth string CB who was flippin burgers the previous week lol.

That said, I felt it was time for him to go based off of what wasn't done last season... and that was to have a backup plan for if the O-line struggled again. He put his full faith in that unit to simply play better this year when he should've had some players ready to step in (like Lomas Brown type... an older veteran who may be able to give somewhat competent play over what was in there) simply because of the lofty expectations this team had last off-season. To me that was unforgivable and is the main reason why I was ready to move on from him.

So I'm not going to say he was the greatest GM ever... but he wasn't nearly as bad as some seem to like to think. And even moreso than that, the hatred shown towards him by some (again, not necessarily you) is a little over the top if you ask me. Again, he gets blamed for EVERYTHING that went wrong but receives no credit for ANYTHING that went right. I'd have an issue with anyone who had this same general attitude towards Coughlin as well.
RE: RE: RE: The Reese defense  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/9/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 13855983 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13855934 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13855924 PaulN said:


Quote:


You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.



Here's another example of people leaving out important details just to fit a story.

Maybe try to remember how many rookies (read: players who had nothing to do with Ernie Accorsi) had a significant imprint on the success of that team.



Since we're splitting hairs, they actually did have *something* to do with Ernie Accorsi because it was his department that scouted and evaluated them throughout the season. Does Reese get credit for making the final decision on draft day? Absolutely. But that was a transition year, just as this one is for Dave Gettleman. We will see what happens.

Unfortunately for Reese, he never reached that level of success in his drafts again. You have to wonder what changed.



It really isn't "splitting hairs" to state what should be a known fact that Jerry Reese was Accorsi's director of college scouting. It's actually a very significant piece of information that kind of blows up the narrative that Reese was only hanging on as a passenger on Accorsi's ride. The teams the Giants fielded under Ernie Accorsi had Reese's input on them as well. Anyone can say things like "Reese only won with Accorsi's players", but some of 'Accorsi's players" were there because of Reese.

Quote:
Then, on May 1, 2002, he leaped over several others in the organization to become the director of player personnel, where his primary responsibility was running the Giants' war room on draft day. His most famous move in that role came in his first draft, in 2003, when he made a passionate and successful plea for the Giants to draft Osi Umenyiora, then a little-known defensive end out of Troy State, with their second-round pick. Umenyiora has had 28 1/2 sacks in his four NFL seasons. Reese is well-regarded around the league as a talent evaluator, and has been considered something of a rising star among league executives.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/reese-rise-fit-king-named-big-blue-gm-article-1.263571

RE: RE: RE: RE: The Reese defense  
Brown Recluse : 3/9/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13856107 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13855983 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13855934 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13855924 PaulN said:


Quote:


You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.



Here's another example of people leaving out important details just to fit a story.

Maybe try to remember how many rookies (read: players who had nothing to do with Ernie Accorsi) had a significant imprint on the success of that team.



Since we're splitting hairs, they actually did have *something* to do with Ernie Accorsi because it was his department that scouted and evaluated them throughout the season. Does Reese get credit for making the final decision on draft day? Absolutely. But that was a transition year, just as this one is for Dave Gettleman. We will see what happens.

Unfortunately for Reese, he never reached that level of success in his drafts again. You have to wonder what changed.





It really isn't "splitting hairs" to state what should be a known fact that Jerry Reese was Accorsi's director of college scouting. It's actually a very significant piece of information that kind of blows up the narrative that Reese was only hanging on as a passenger on Accorsi's ride. The teams the Giants fielded under Ernie Accorsi had Reese's input on them as well. Anyone can say things like "Reese only won with Accorsi's players", but some of 'Accorsi's players" were there because of Reese.



Quote:


Then, on May 1, 2002, he leaped over several others in the organization to become the director of player personnel, where his primary responsibility was running the Giants' war room on draft day. His most famous move in that role came in his first draft, in 2003, when he made a passionate and successful plea for the Giants to draft Osi Umenyiora, then a little-known defensive end out of Troy State, with their second-round pick. Umenyiora has had 28 1/2 sacks in his four NFL seasons. Reese is well-regarded around the league as a talent evaluator, and has been considered something of a rising star among league executives.



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/reese-rise-fit-king-named-big-blue-gm-article-1.263571


Firstly, Paul isn't wrong. Most of the Super Bowl roster was not acquired by Reese as a GM. That is obviously what he was referring to. Whatever he did prior to that is immaterial, because the discussion was about his body of work as a general manager, not a director or scout or anything else. Jerry Reese the Pro Personnel Director is a different discussion and if you want to go back and look at those drafts they aren't much better, overall.

Yeah, the 2007 draft was great and it contributed to the Super Bowl win. The point is that the core of that team was not brought together under Jerry Reese as GM. And every draft after that was unimpressive. In fact, I recall reading a few years ago that the Giants had one of the worst rates in the league, with regards to drafted players that actually stay with their teams past their first contract or were even still in the league at all. Looking back at some of those names, it is not difficult to imagine how that could be true.

Secondly, you are the one that stated Accorsi had *nothing* to do with Reese's 2007 draft. If you meant something else, perhaps you should have worded your post better.

'Huge difference in Giants' FO'...  
Torrag : 3/9/2018 12:52 pm : link
Agreed and here a couple examples to illustrate it already...

The Ogletree trade and the Jones tender.

1) Scouting of offensive line ability. Something the last regime proved terrible at.

2)Valuation of speed and explosion at the LB position and it's importance to a defenses success in today's game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Reese defense  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/9/2018 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13856170 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 13856107 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13855983 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13855934 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13855924 PaulN said:


Quote:


You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.



Here's another example of people leaving out important details just to fit a story.

Maybe try to remember how many rookies (read: players who had nothing to do with Ernie Accorsi) had a significant imprint on the success of that team.



Since we're splitting hairs, they actually did have *something* to do with Ernie Accorsi because it was his department that scouted and evaluated them throughout the season. Does Reese get credit for making the final decision on draft day? Absolutely. But that was a transition year, just as this one is for Dave Gettleman. We will see what happens.

Unfortunately for Reese, he never reached that level of success in his drafts again. You have to wonder what changed.





It really isn't "splitting hairs" to state what should be a known fact that Jerry Reese was Accorsi's director of college scouting. It's actually a very significant piece of information that kind of blows up the narrative that Reese was only hanging on as a passenger on Accorsi's ride. The teams the Giants fielded under Ernie Accorsi had Reese's input on them as well. Anyone can say things like "Reese only won with Accorsi's players", but some of 'Accorsi's players" were there because of Reese.



Quote:


Then, on May 1, 2002, he leaped over several others in the organization to become the director of player personnel, where his primary responsibility was running the Giants' war room on draft day. His most famous move in that role came in his first draft, in 2003, when he made a passionate and successful plea for the Giants to draft Osi Umenyiora, then a little-known defensive end out of Troy State, with their second-round pick. Umenyiora has had 28 1/2 sacks in his four NFL seasons. Reese is well-regarded around the league as a talent evaluator, and has been considered something of a rising star among league executives.



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/reese-rise-fit-king-named-big-blue-gm-article-1.263571




Firstly, Paul isn't wrong. Most of the Super Bowl roster was not acquired by Reese as a GM. That is obviously what he was referring to. Whatever he did prior to that is immaterial, because the discussion was about his body of work as a general manager, not a director or scout or anything else. Jerry Reese the Pro Personnel Director is a different discussion and if you want to go back and look at those drafts they aren't much better, overall.

Yeah, the 2007 draft was great and it contributed to the Super Bowl win. The point is that the core of that team was not brought together under Jerry Reese as GM. And every draft after that was unimpressive. In fact, I recall reading a few years ago that the Giants had one of the worst rates in the league, with regards to drafted players that actually stay with their teams past their first contract or were even still in the league at all. Looking back at some of those names, it is not difficult to imagine how that could be true.

Secondly, you are the one that stated Accorsi had *nothing* to do with Reese's 2007 draft. If you meant something else, perhaps you should have worded your post better.


Accorsi doesn't have anything to do with the 2007 draft. Why would he, when Reese was already running the draft by 2003 and accorsi was out of the building before the 2007 combine.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Reese defense  
T-Bone : 3/9/2018 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13856242 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13856170 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13856107 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13855983 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 13855934 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13855924 PaulN said:


Quote:


You mean Tuck and Osi and even Strahan, that defense that Reese built? People talk without even thinking, did Reese get Antonio Pierce? So the first Super Bowl in which 90% of the team was not acquired by Reese was a great job by him? Okay, Reese was just great.



Here's another example of people leaving out important details just to fit a story.

Maybe try to remember how many rookies (read: players who had nothing to do with Ernie Accorsi) had a significant imprint on the success of that team.



Since we're splitting hairs, they actually did have *something* to do with Ernie Accorsi because it was his department that scouted and evaluated them throughout the season. Does Reese get credit for making the final decision on draft day? Absolutely. But that was a transition year, just as this one is for Dave Gettleman. We will see what happens.

Unfortunately for Reese, he never reached that level of success in his drafts again. You have to wonder what changed.





It really isn't "splitting hairs" to state what should be a known fact that Jerry Reese was Accorsi's director of college scouting. It's actually a very significant piece of information that kind of blows up the narrative that Reese was only hanging on as a passenger on Accorsi's ride. The teams the Giants fielded under Ernie Accorsi had Reese's input on them as well. Anyone can say things like "Reese only won with Accorsi's players", but some of 'Accorsi's players" were there because of Reese.



Quote:


Then, on May 1, 2002, he leaped over several others in the organization to become the director of player personnel, where his primary responsibility was running the Giants' war room on draft day. His most famous move in that role came in his first draft, in 2003, when he made a passionate and successful plea for the Giants to draft Osi Umenyiora, then a little-known defensive end out of Troy State, with their second-round pick. Umenyiora has had 28 1/2 sacks in his four NFL seasons. Reese is well-regarded around the league as a talent evaluator, and has been considered something of a rising star among league executives.



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/reese-rise-fit-king-named-big-blue-gm-article-1.263571




Firstly, Paul isn't wrong. Most of the Super Bowl roster was not acquired by Reese as a GM. That is obviously what he was referring to. Whatever he did prior to that is immaterial, because the discussion was about his body of work as a general manager, not a director or scout or anything else. Jerry Reese the Pro Personnel Director is a different discussion and if you want to go back and look at those drafts they aren't much better, overall.

Yeah, the 2007 draft was great and it contributed to the Super Bowl win. The point is that the core of that team was not brought together under Jerry Reese as GM. And every draft after that was unimpressive. In fact, I recall reading a few years ago that the Giants had one of the worst rates in the league, with regards to drafted players that actually stay with their teams past their first contract or were even still in the league at all. Looking back at some of those names, it is not difficult to imagine how that could be true.

Secondly, you are the one that stated Accorsi had *nothing* to do with Reese's 2007 draft. If you meant something else, perhaps you should have worded your post better.




Accorsi doesn't have anything to do with the 2007 draft. Why would he, when Reese was already running the draft by 2003 and accorsi was out of the building before the 2007 combine.


I agree with TTH here. Why would Accorsi had anything to do with a draft when he was no longer employed by the team?

Like I said, Reese can't get credit for shit! LOL!
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